opinions on surlys?

a 90s rigid mtb w/ slicks with extra homo

The choice of the burly man.

i like their old school forks

Surprisingly fragile for all that weight.

Meme bike.

Waste of perfectly fine money.

Everyone that knows anything about bikes will think you are eccentric.

And >>1004486

Normal people like them

4chan autists get angry at them because of some out of context email copy/paste from a bike forum that expressed a wrong opinion once

Most surly owners are cute girls who are kind of granola/hippyish, so if you hate surly that means you hate cute girls

Although if you are a guy and you bought a surly you should hang your head in shame

Reddit bikes.

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>>1004462
Toured in South America for some months. The Long Haul Trucker worked a dream

>>1004576
I've seen you.

"jack of all trades, master of none" company
some of their geometries are weird, like the super long top tubes
overzealous with braze ons
horizontal dropouts with disc brakes and quick release is a fucking disaster
obsession with 4130
"fuck the bike industry, we're quirky and weird" while being owned by one of the biggest bicycle corps out there


that said, they make some solid frames for particular uses/price points (trucker, troll, 1x1), but there are usually better options available.

>>1005101
I'd rather just get a bikes direct online bike than a surly. Steel is cheap and no logo is going to make me want to spend extra £££

Good bikes

>>1005101
>overzealous with braze ons
That's a good thing
>horizontal dropouts with disc brakes and quick release is a fucking disaster
Horizontal dropouts are stupid
>obsession with 4130
That's a good thing
>"fuck the bike industry, we're quirky and weird" while being owned by one of the biggest bicycle corps out there
Valid point
>that said, they make some solid frames for particular uses/price points (trucker, troll, 1x1), but there are usually better options available.
Fairly accurate

>>1004527
Underrated post.

29+ is the best.

Surly helped make 29er happen with the Karate Monkey.

Surly helped make fatbike happen with the Pugsley.

Both were the first mass-production models in their categories

Surly needs credit for that.

The success of the LHT is part of the reason why touring bikes came back in fashion, which is awesome.

Credit for the bottle cage bosses and eyelets covering frames today too.

All of that, and yet, I don't want to pay the extra $500 for the bikes. But respect for their innovations.

I hope they keep pulling it off, but I don't see where else there is to go

>>1005237
>29er
>fatbikes
>innovation

More like jewnovation. Nobody needs that crap.

>>1005237
Aren't fat bikes just a meme though?

>>1005238
>More like jewnovation. Nobody needs that crap.

Where do you draw the line in the sand for "worth it" re: mountain bikes. Rigid canti 26er? Because if you do, everyone involved in mtb - even the veterans from the 90s - disagrees with you.

>>1005246
>Aren't fat bikes just a meme though?

They're a fun meme and led to the fat-tire trickle down hype that affected every single bike category outside of track. Imho it's a great thing. All-road, 29+, 26+, 25c pro cycling

>>1004462
Every hobby has it's Apple equivalent, which is what Surly is. However, their LHT, Crosscheck, and fat bikes are pretty good.

>>1005259
Cycling's Apple equivalent is SpecEd or Terk. Surly is like Asus or some chink shit.

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>>1004576

Should have bought a Fuji Touring for half the price.

I think they fill the niche they do pretty well.
The LHT is the best touring bike on the market imo and they make plenty of good cool stuff. I like mostly how hardy and versatile their stuff is.

on the slightly higher end, All-City does better stuff with their steel. The way they treat it with electricity and coat it really well makes the lifetime of it fantastic.

>>1005297
Just looking at it now the geometry is different and quite frankly, I see 1 less bottle mount (also holds things like folding lock). I have multiple ways to mount racks on the rear, and I have cantis rear (all you really need).

Now, I got my frame used. I got a over built steel disk fork. I have Aero clip on some and brifters. Replicating this bike new would be close to 2 3k. Esp with dura ace derail

Btwn 1x setup to make gearing easier matinence. Hyrd front. Bottle cage carries a vacuumed sealed 1 hand mug and 2 tire levers. I think a tube maybe too. With all the ways to attach things to this bike, it's easy to get down to riding almost naked while entirely stocked like a bike store.

I think surly is something like a think tank or innovation side of bike corps. I got the frame used for 100, but this is easily the nicest bike I've ever had. Makes 23c tires on cobblestones more comfortable then a 80lb ebike with 10inch marathons. Running 25 Mara plus

Also, the bike handles like a dead cat without a load. When it's loaded down it feels like a boat made by Lincoln. A Town car boat that honestly makes me think of magic carpet.

Now that's not a muscle car, and it's not a stunt car. It's a El Camino with a ridiculous nice cabin.

I do deliveries all day. Load up like 30lb of pizza on a rear rack, blast a few miles. I ride 50 a week. More.

I will say. It's nice to be able to fit fenders like some kind of weak sissy who doesn't just put a tarp on the bottom of their rack.

But why the fuck can't this fit anything bike fit rim breaks? Like maybe with some brazes and a adaptor link up? Cm on surly step it up

And spoke holders. I dont even build wheels but I love them

>>1005306
What is the all city equivalent of the lht? I'd love a more city designed full steel cruiser

I have a front bend fork, was thinking of swapping it with a different steel fork that's more straight. But I like the relaxed Geo of the lht

>>1005296
>Surly is like Asus

Asus is actually good.

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>>1005313
>What is the all city equivalent of the lht?

the Salsa Marrakesh

>>1005313
They don't really have a touring bike. The closest would be the Space Horse, which is made to be their all arounder 'do anything' bike. It's actually really great

It's like the cross-check/straggler by surly, except those have a cyclocross geometry, so they space horse geometry might work for you better.

>>1005318
I like the fork with the extra mounts for an extra 2 bottles.

I think salsa is more expensive tho isn't it? It's higher end steel then 4160 right?

>>1005320
Question. This steel electricity thing. Can this be done aftermarket?

How did surly start btw?

>>1005343
>This steel electricity thing. Can this be done aftermarket?
The coating on A-C frames is done by electrophoretic deposition, it's pretty much the same thing as a powdercoat finish (electrostatic deposition) but with better internal coverage because the item to be coated is submerged in a liquid instead of being sprayed with a powder. If you're worried about coating the inside of an existing steel frame (mainly a concern for people whose bikes will be exposed to saltwater), it's much easier and cheaper to use a product like Weigle's framesaver than to strip the frame and have it E-coated.

>>1005337

All steel bikes are 4130 Cromoly (except the few hi-ten and stainless ones of course). The metal is the same. The difference is the tubing. Cheap steel bikes have straight tubes. More expensive bikes have single/double/triple butted tubes (i.e matter removed in the middle of the tubes making them lighter but nearly as strong and just as stiff), shaped tubing, nicer welds or lugs and more importantly heat-treatment to harden them.

For example Surly uses mere double-butted cromoly with no heat-treatment or special shaping for the LHT, which is why it's often considered an overpriced bottom of the barrel hipster brand on /n/. The Fuji Touring posted earlier in the thread offers a comparable frame with only marginally worse components (and even that is debatable, the brakes are much better for example), an arguably more sensible geometry (a fucking 8cm bb drop), yet is only 2/5 of the price of the LHT.

>>1005393
Honestly I know friction shifters will last longer but brifters just work nicer imo.

What's the high end lht Tho? I see the faults of the surly, but I still see it as a mid to high end bike if only on the power of its reputation.

Frame for frame tho, how does the lht compare to the Fuji, and does the Fujitsu have the storage capacity of the lht?

(I'm gonna assume that handling differently under load isn't a lht unique thing and the Fuji is similarly designed. )

>>1005361
You compared them to all city. Frame for frame ( or component to component), is the all city more expensive then the lht, or is the lht price gouged despite their claim that "lel after market stuff 4 chumps cheaper link this crappie stickers"

(I sticker bikes to protect them from intercity bumps and grinds against metal and rough stone)

>>1005397
>What's the high end lht Tho?

Say a made-to-measure custom-order touring bike with a hand-made reynolds 953 stainless steel tubing or titanium tubing frameset.

If you want to keep it reasonable Thorn cycles is at the upper range of mid-end.

>Frame for frame tho, how does the lht compare to the Fuji

Looking at the geometry, the Fuji would have a tiny bit more aggressive riding position and would somewhat more reactive and agile. The Lht would be maybe slightly more stable (this one is hard to assess because while the lht has a longer wheelbase, it also has a slightly higher bottom bracket).

>does the Fujitsu have the storage capacity of the lht?

Potentially yeah. The point of failure with heavy loads are the racks (particularly attachments), not the frames. The off the shelf rack of the Fuji is alluminum. You'd need to replace it with a steel one to reliably carry 20kg+. On the other hand, the lht is not provided with a rack at all.

>>1005337
>I think salsa is more expensive tho isn't it?

Marrakesh: $1,600 with Brooks saddle

stock Disc Trucker: $1,450 without Brooks

You'd have to do a real component-to-component comparison at this point. Most people put a Brooks on the Surlys so it's a wash without deeper analysis

desu a lot of people buy the Surly as a frameset and build up so comparison is pointless

>>1004462
ok frames and forks, just avoid their build kits, as their spec's are fucking retarded for the prices, just buy a frameset and build it up your self.

>>1004509
>surly owner
I bet you don't even have a kickstand. Cute grills own Electras and other city bikes.

>>1005237
>Surly helped make 29er happen with the Karate Monkey.
That's not true, they were just bandwagoners. 29ers are a stupid fad anyways, and there's a reason why they're going back to a smaller wheel. The rear wheels of 29ers tend to just be too large to design a good bike around and the wheels aren't as strong.

>Surly helped make fatbike happen with the Pugsley.
They made the mass produced fadbike happen yes, and that makes them shit because fadbikes are stupid outside of a limited context. They didn't invent the fadbike either.

So they deserve credit for helping shit fads.

>The success of the LHT is part of the reason why touring bikes came back in fashion, which is awesome.
Rivshit is.

>Credit for the bottle cage bosses and eyelets covering frames today too.
Now this is retarded you surly fanboy. Fork bottle bosses are retarded, and second set of downdube bosses are not a surly invention.

Surly is not an innovator. They just hop on the bandwagon early.

>>1005393
That's not true though. High end tubesets are not 4130, and neither is 531.

>>1005418
I am mostly interested in the frame itself, I built a lht myself. Although I wonder if you can even call it that.

Btw, good steel rack brand? Been looking for a steel rack for ages.

Oh, and the higher bb really works well for dampening pedalstrike. ...i need to stop pedaling through corners.

>>1005422
BTW, just saying flat out

I immediately disregard anyone Riding meme seats

To me it screams "I wear jeans and it goes with them". Disgusting bottom barrel short bullhorn and no break fixie fuckwits

Thinking about a fixzik or whatever it is at a local coop but it's white...

>>1005451
Brooks are genuinely good saddles. They're just way overrated, especially for low mileage hipsters. With a synthetic saddle, many people have to try several models before they find one that works as well as a Brooks. A Brooks, after the break in period, conforms to your ass. If you don't want to run into saddle issues mid-tour, that's a good reason to go with a Brooks.

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Instigator.

>>1005437
>29ers are a stupid fad anyways, and there's a reason why they're going back to a smaller wheel.

"If I keep repeating it, maybe it will come true!"

>>1005456
>low mileage hipsters
Yes I'm sure you ride 400 miles a day and fix your bike using only yak butter and paper clips

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>>1005451

>>1005463
p much everyone is going 27.5 bruh

29 is the new 26 and 26 is tomorrow's 27.5

>>1005464
Low mileage hipsters as in they bike to uni that's less than 5 miles away.

>>1005467
No, the future is 27.5+, which is normally done on the cheap with a 29" frame.

>>1005297
>700c for touring
>not 26er

>>1005238
>riding a 26
>riding a 27.5

spotted the faggot.

>>1004462
They seem really pricey considering they haven't really improved on 80's touring frames besides having nicer groups on them stock.

>>1005101
>overzealous with braze ons
Braze ons are don't really contribute many negatives compared to how heavy they are. All those roadie frames really look silly a decade later when you can't even put some fenders on to take it in the rain.

>>1005508
559 wheels are pretty great for touring on paper.

I'm working on setting up a winter beater with some 26" schwalbe ice tires I got cheap.

I wish there were more GOOD rigid frames around. adding springs and crap everywhere took off a bit before aluminum so your pretty much left with 90's Hi-ten BSO's and the odd decent chromo bike.

>>1005522
>I wish there were more GOOD rigid frames around. adding springs and crap everywhere took off a bit before aluminum so your pretty much left with 90's Hi-ten BSO's and the odd decent chromo bike.

Currently looking for a rigid disc 26er frame

Best bet is a cannondale with a headshock. Or getting something and using aftermarket fork. Wasting more money

The only option is the Surly Troll. Or was. I think it just wend 650b but I could be wrong

>>1005461
>Instigator.

check out the low mileage hipster

>>1005555
True, only about 85 km of vert this year bruh, though mostly carrying my bike. Pedaling is way too mainstream.

>>1005478
the future is 24+ on flow trails

>>1005553
the oldish novara buzz (pre-2010) is ok, but it can't take tires wider than 1.9" or so. I just upgraded mine with XT/Zee and it's a riot because it wants to actually fucking kill me if I fuck up even a little on anything more technical than a fart

>>1005553
650b as in 26" diam but narrower tires for CX/comfy commuting or 650b as in 27.5" Mountain memery?

discs would be nice but the 26" deore wheelset I have is good enough, cantis should be fine for winter braking.

>Wasting more money
exactly, I want to keep this build on the cheap.

You rekon it's worth upgrading from friction thumbies if the bike will never see nice weather?

>>1005598
I was running 24+ rear last year. Pretty great for the super steeep stuff.

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>>1005522
>I wish there were more GOOD rigid frames around.

look at mid 90's hybrids - mostly chromo or tange and perfect for gravel, cross, or touring conversions, often very cheap also.

>>1005609
yeah it looks fun as fuck

https://vimeo.com/107919155

>>1005610
Currently rocking a late 80's tange frame, doubt I can fit anything passed 28c though.

90's touring converted to a CX bike sounds fun as fuck. I had 650B slicks (26x13/8) on a garbage tier steel MTB and hit up some CX trails and it was quite fun.

It's suprisingly how flexible that bike was, as long as you don't pinch flat or hit a loose hill you're set.

>>1005601
Sounds sweet post pic

>>1005616
Well, that's more like 24++, or well a fat bike. +(plus) generally means 2.6-3" tires or so... but semantics aside that would be a fun bike. Tire/frame/rim selection is pretty limited though.

>>1005522
>I wish there were more GOOD rigid frames around. adding springs and crap everywhere took off a bit before aluminum so your pretty much left with 90's Hi-ten BSO's and the odd decent chromo bike.

There are PLENTY of spectacular rigid frames out there if you're willing to spend a little extra on something from an independent framebuilder or small shop.

>>1005508
Right? 700C is fine if you're sticking to the USA, but I spent hours searching for a 700C tube in Nagano a few years ago.

>>1005237
The Karate Monkey and the Pugsley were definitely the bikes that made people sit up, take notice, and go "huh, maybe these aren't a niche of product segments as we thought", and anyone who disputes that doesn't have a memory more than a decade long.

But I'm not sure I'd say the LHT is the reason why touring bikes are in fashion. Yes, the LHT has a cult following, but it's really not that amazing. I'd argue that Salsa's new Marrakesh is everything the LHT should be - kickstand plate and all.

>Credit for the bottle cage bosses and eyelets covering frames today too

Wut. No. The Salsa Fargo is the bike that touched off the let's-mount-ALLTHETHINGS.jpg-on-the-fork-blades into the mainstream. The Fargo had the fork mounts, the 3-bolt cage mount on the downtube, and the third cage mount under the downtube at least a year before those brazeons showed up on the Troll and Ogre.

ANYWAY. Surly hasn't really put out anything noteworthy in years.

If you want a rigid steel fatbike, they are probably the best value - good luck finding anything as versatile for backcountry bikepacking from any major manufacturer. Want an all-road and off-road touring bike? Hard to go wrong with a Troll or Ogre (or a Salsa Fargo).

But on the other hand, none of their 700c road bikes look compelling at all - yeah, the Crosscheck is a hipster classic, but ehhhh... And the Straggler is DOA with those fucked dropouts. Almost every single one of Surly's roadbikes has a better counterpart at All-City

>>1005449
>Btw, good steel rack brand?

Tubus. They even have a stainless steel rack rated at 40kg.

>>1004462
picked up a lightly used LHT for $650 and am fucking loving it. Can't wait for this semester to be done and get to touring.

>>1005680
>Right? 700C is fine if you're sticking to the USA, but I spent hours searching for a 700C tube in Nagano a few years ago.
700C tubes are more common than American 559 26" tubes. Japanese tubes are for 650A/B 590/584. That extra inch of tube will crinkle and cause pinch flats. On the other hand, there's no problem using a 650A/B tube in a 700c tire, just like there's no problem using a 26" tube in a 650A/B tire. The tube can stretch an extra 5%. 559 is not common at all in Japan, 26" mamachari use 650A like British 3 speeds do, and any decent bike shop will have 700c.

I would highly recommend 700c over 26" for Japan. 559 26" is for third world countries.

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Cinelli still makes their steel frames in Italy

Surly, Salsa, All City are made in Taiwan

>>1008621
I think only the Supercorsa and the Supercorsa Pista are still made in Italy. Everything else (including the steel frames) is probably made in Taiwan.

>>1008582
Hmmm, I guess now that I think back, the *real* problem was finding a presta-valve tube. They were all Schrader or Dunlop valves.

The ECR is the best fucking bike since the CrossCheck. Surly keeps the other companies on their toes.

http://waltworks.com/2015/11/in-defense-of-surly/

>>1008621

so what ?
why should underpaied factory workers in italy do a better job than underpaid factory workers in taiwan.

those italian guys aren't the grand children of legendary framebuilders.

also taiwan is the place where most frames are built ,my guess is, even the good ones.
so wouldn't it make sense to be proud of a taiwanese frame ?

also also, I don't know anything about the actual manufacturing proceses but aren't these processes highly automated anyway ?
if so, isn't it absolutly of no matter where the machines are located ?


just my thought, Im happy to learn more about this issue.

>>1008621

It seems the majority of quality bikes in the world are made in Taiwan. They seem to be the master artisans who have the balance of quality and economy right. But I suppose that some greasy wop or hungover hipster who makes one frame a week is better because it costs more. :^)

>>1005449

Steel rack is overrated. Really, a rack takes fuck all load for its strength, do you really think you're going to be loading up 50kg on a rack? I've had flawless performance from Topeak alloy racks for over a decade, save your money.

>>1005449
Surly steel rack is nice
>>1005456
Brooks saddles are pure shit

>>1005433
Predictable, but I have a Bianchi
And who the fuck uses kickstands except children

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>>1010188
>meet two hot sluts
>they'll suck your dick and rim your filthy ass if you give both of them a ride on the back of your bike
>boner says holy shit yes
>shitty alloy rack collapses
>sluts fall onto your wheel, tacoing it
>gets spokes rammed through their tits and clits
>yfw none of this happened and your asshole is getting sucked on because you were smart enough to spend a few bux more for tubus

>>1010222

>hot sluts
>so fat that your rack collapses

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>>1010224
>doesn't like his girls THICC

>>1010222
Top fucking kek

>>1010224
Most alloy racks are rated for around 20-30 kg ish.

If your "hot sluts" are that light, then well you'd better have a seat over here.

>>1009971
>why should underpaied factory workers in italy do a better job than underpaid factory workers in taiwan.
>those italian guys aren't the grand children of legendary framebuilders.
brazing frames is a art, its not an assembly line task, frame builders apprentice for years to learn this. Watch this video starting around 15min, you cant speed any of this process up with machinery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biTIgrr8p88

>also also, I don't know anything about the actual manufacturing proceses but aren't these processes highly automated anyway ?
no, not even in modern factories
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fkJl5tPjCs

Why does /n/ hate everything

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>>1010317

Because they can't afford it.

>>1010317
Welcome to 4chan

I have a cross check.

>>1010314

that giant vid is crazy.

I still don't think that italian guys are better frame builders as taiwanees guys

>>1010718
>I still don't think that italian guys are better frame builders as taiwanees guys
Here is an updated video of the same factory as the video above to show that the manufacturing techniques are still the same despite updated machinery technology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaaY_4Ol9u8
frame building starts an 4min

>>1010659

I bought a cross-check ten years ago to replace my trusty but worn-out OTS. At the time the cross-check was the only complete bike that Surly sold and it was literally the only steel OTS analogue on the market at the time, besides boutique rando steeds. That bike gave me awesome reliability and value and now you can't walk into an LBS without tripping over cross this and gravel that.

Considering the now common fat and plus bikes which Surly championed, I literally believe that Surly saved us from the fred armageddon.

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The fred armageddon would be hybrid carbon bikes, literally good for nothing overpriced trash. Shit on the trail, shit on the road.

>>1005308

You got a dick trucker? The rim-brake trucker is a different frame entirely. I've got no problem with rim brakes having sterling reliablity from cantis on my crosscheck, but I wouldn't be complaining about having dick breaks.

Surly bankrolled and bootstrapped a lot of cool things, and kept the flame alive for stuff the other big manufacturers were trying hard to kill.

Some were hits like fatbike, 29+. Some weren't like 26+. But you've got to give it to QBP for keeping the leash long, although it seems to be that they're doing some product cleanup at the moment.

>>1005246
not in Whitehorse, they extend the cycling season year-round

>>1005237
Why do they use horizontal dropouts? I've never understood this

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>>1005297
I can confirm that Fuji Touring is a great bike.

>>1015892
Surly has a big ol' stiffy for single-speed bikes. Horizontal dropouts are the simplest/cheapest way to tension a chain on a single-speed bike.

>>1010254
Is that a surly track bike

extra wide clearance on the fork so you can run up to 2.8 inch mtb tires

>>1015892
I wish more bike makers did. I would then have a choice between fixed, single speed, coaster, IGH, casette/freewheel... Horizontal dropouts are really the best. Unless you are in the mtb discipline with thru axles...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5USJfxjMzMY

>>1016230
>>1016230

I like the Colnago-classic dropouts on the cross-check. The weird dropouts on the Straggler are a bit too much of a clusterfuck for my taste but they supposedly work breddy gud.