Lou Reed

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you forgot:
>ywn be a part of the first three velvet underground albums
>ywn invent the best rock song (sister ray)
>ywn be more glam rock than bowie
>ywn make metal machine music
there's a thread on lou reed almost everyday on /mu/, for good reason

>>75081634

my bad anon. I'm somewhat new-ish to /mu/ but I recently discovered Lou Reed and it's somewhat mind boggling how so much of his older music holds up so well even today.

There's something about velvet underground and nico (and a lot of his solo music) that feels like it would give even relatively newer rock music a run for its money. In terms of style, experimentation, exploration, enjoyability.

>>75081458
>having an extremely fruitful solo career
he had 2 decent solo albums, tops

>>75081845
which ones? I'm still trying his solo stuff out but like what i've heard so far.

>>75081845
You've probably only listened to 2 albums of his.

>>75081458
He invented post rock so thats a plus

>>75081845
>He doesnt love MMM

>>75081927
He listened to that 2 albums, Sally Can't Dance and Lulu.

>>75081458
His best solo album. I also really like New York and the live ones

"The makeup thing is just a style thing now, like platform shoes. If people have homosexuality in them, it won't necessarily involve makeup in the first place. You can't fake being gay, because being gay means you're going to have to suck cock, or get fucked. I think there's a very basic thing in a guy if he's straight where he's just going to say no: 'I'll act gay, I'll do this and I'll do that, but I can't do that.' Just like a gay person if they wanted to act straight and everything, but if you said, 'Okay, go ahead, go to bed with a girl,' they're going to have to get an erection first, and they can't do that.

"The notion that everybody's bisexual is a very popular line right now, but I think its validity is limited. I could say something like if in any way my album helps people decide who or what they are, then I will feel I have accomplished something in my life. But I don't feel that way at all. I don't think an album's gonna do anything. You can't listen to a record and say, 'Oh that really turned me onto gay life, I'm gonna be gay.' A lot of people will have one or two experiences, and that'll be it. Things may not change one iota. It's beyond the control of a straight person to turn gay at the age he'll probably be listening to any of his stuff or reading about it; he'll already be determined psychologically. It's like Franco said: 'Give me a child until he's seven and he's mine.' By the time a kid reaches puberty they've been determined. Guys walking around in makeup is just fun. Why shouldn't men be able to put on makeup and have fun like women have?"

based Lou

>>75083195
damn dude. spitting truths. he seems cool af.

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>>75081458
anyone have any neat pics of VU looking cool as shit? I'm thinking of Cale and Morrison's looks in this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwzaifhSw2c

honestly probably never gonna be another band like Velvet Underground and that makes me sad, I didn't even get to live through it

>>75083612
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djk8aLC7X4I

this interview shows Lou's super-chill cool side. He came off edgy in media but deep down he was just a smart guy with dry humor who loved music

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>>75084878
same
lou still doesn't get the love he deserves. his whole glam thing was more explicit than bowie's too. check out all of his rock and roll animal/transformer era pics

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>>75085023
whoops, don't know why that wasn't bigger

>>75081458
Transformer isn't even that good compared to the rest of glam rock. There's just a couple of good tracks on it and the rest is meh.

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>>75085087
tell me some great glamrock albums anon.
i've only recently started getting into it.
(I've heard some bowie (his most popular stuff) but don't know which part is glamrock and which isn't).

>>75085023
what are your favorite albums by lou?

I fucking love Lou.

Everyone who's remotely into TVU or punk in general should read this:

http://www.autistici.org/2000-maniax/texts/McNeil_McCain_Please_Kill_Me.pdf

it's full of tons of interesting interviews and insights into the punk scene in NYC in the 70s. also features stuff about iggy pop, bowie, patti smith, and television

an excerpt about lou and gay sex:

>BILLY NAME: Lou, Mary Woronov, and I used to go to Max's Kansas City , and also these gay dance clubs in the Village, like the Stonewall. It would close at four o'clock, so Lou and I would still be up, on Methedrine, and still be wanting to do something. So we'd go to after-hours places, where you could still dance. Then when it would get to be daylight, Lou and I would just mosey over to the Factory and do a number. We weren't having an affair or anything, we were just pals hanging around. I don't think we really did blow jobs. I hate blow jobs. They're just so awkward. I hate having my head so occupied-it's too close and claustrophobic. Lou would just jerk off, get off, and then get up to leave, so I had to say, "Hey, wait a minute. I didn't come yet." So Lou would sit on my face while I jerked off. It was like smoking com silk behind the bam, it was just kid stuff. There was no rapture or romance involved. It was just about getting your rocks off at that moment, because going out with girls was still about getting involved, and all that shit. With
guys it was just easier.

im just gonna come out and say it

lulu was good

>>75082159
New York and the Blue Mask are so good

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>>75085288
all of his TVU work (excluding loaded, he apparently didn't like it either. their first three albums)
transformer
rock n roll animal
metal machine music

still burning through his discography, so there's probably some stuff that i missed. if you're into glam rock, he did a lot of it starting with transformer, i disagree with >>75085087
, the only real weak track on the album is hangin round, and even that is decent. bowie produced the album and his vocals are heard in the background, in fact, i'm pretty sure that's why lou got into glam desu

>>75085373
>Lou Reed will never sit on your face
why live

>>75085373
no homo

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Street-Hassle [Arista, 1978]

I know Lou worked his ass off on this one, but he worked his ass off on Berlin, too. Like so many of his contemporaries, maybe he should stop aiming for masterpieces. After being annoyed for the longest time, I eventually warmed to "I Wanna Be Black", which treats racism as a stupid joke and gets away with it. But the production is muddled and the self-consciousness self-serving. B+

Lou Reed Live: Take No Prisoners [Arista, 1978]

Because your humble servant is attacked by name on what is ostensibly a comedy record, some of my colleagues have rushed in with Don Rickles analogies but that's not fair. Lenny Bruce is the real comparison. Thing is, I don't even play my comedy records, including my real Lenny Bruce ones, as much as I play "Rock and Roll Animal". There's a couple of Lou Reed concerts I'd love to check out again like Palace Theater 11/5/76 and Bottom Line 5/11/77, but this isn't it, I'm sorry. And I'd like to thank Lou for pronouncing my name right. C+

>>75085373
OP here. quality post anon. thanks for posting the pdf.

>It was just about getting your rocks off at that moment, because going out with girls was still about getting involved, and all that shit. With guys it was just easier.
goddamn. I kind of feel like I won't be half as chill as these people. it feels like they were unabashedly themselves, did what they wanted and were who they wanted to be without caring for any norm. i mean i like to pretend I'm different but honestly i don't think i have the balls to be as carefree or say nonchalantly put on makeup one day without looking like a tool or at least being scared to death of coming across as one. The more I read about lou, the cooler he seems.

will read the book.

>>75085651
Aw, poor baby. Lou hurt his fee-fees.

>>75085664
it's that NY state of mind, anon. in a concrete jungle full of rat race animals it's probably easier to get a little weird, be a little more unabashed. esp if you're in an avant garde music scene and you got unabashed homies with you. but yeah, Lou is an inspiration to me when it comes to just absolutely saying fuck it I'll do what I want

Too bad the New York music scene has been dead for 30 years now. After no wave died out, that was it.

>>75085664
>OP here. quality post anon. thanks for posting the pdf.

no problem, i've been wanting to share the book ever since i read it. it was fantastic

>goddamn. I kind of feel like I won't be half as chill as these people. it feels like they were unabashedly themselves, did what they wanted and were who they wanted to be without caring for any norm.

yeah i see where you're coming from. on the other hand, sometimes i see lou's antics as being incredibly pretentious and edgy, but you're probably more on the mark. being that open about homosexuality in the 60s is just awesome. i could never really flesh out whether lou and andy and everyone at the factory indulged in hard drugs and gay sex and hanging out with transsexuals for the edginess and anti-establishment nature of it or whether it was just what they wanted to do during that time

either way it's awesome and lou is a legend

also that book has some reallllllly weird shit about bowie fucking some underaged girls

>>75085741
imagine being in NYC in the 60s/70s? i know i'm romanticizing it and people from the time say it was a shithole, but the culture just seems incredible.

i lived in nyc for a bit a year or two ago and it was great but it must have been a whole different story then

>>75085832
I think about it sometimes. I've only lived in a suburb really and I just wonder how completely different my life would be if I was an unabashed artist in a city doing whatever I felt like with my crew. Just a whole other way of living

>>75085938
well there's that difference but there's also just a giant difference in eras.

doing what lou was doing in the 60s would be so different than trying to do that now in a city. i don't even think it's possible

>>75081458
>>you will never reinvent rock at its very core
>>you will never form band that is so ahead of its time that it only grows in acclaim even long after your death while also having an extremely fruitful solo career
Name one time (1) he did either of these things

>>75081458

I think I know why this guy was considered to be such an asshole, I would probably be perpetually pissed off too if people only realized how amazing and influential my music was decades later but still had the gaul to criticize my contemporary work

Obviously his VU work wasn't initially successful, but even Transformer and Berlin weren't critically praised initially

Apparently Laurie Anderson mellowed him out near the end, glad he died at peace. Drugs are fucked up

>>75086773
1. his entire career m8

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>>75086773

>>75086878
"Drugs are fucked up but so's life, coping's a balancing act like the edge of a knife"

>>75081845
Fucking kill yourself

There's Transformer, Berlin, Metal Machine Music, New York, Ecstasy, The Raven and Lulu as straight-up classics

And then a number of his other albums have top-tier songs or are just great albums in the discography of any other artist like The Bells, Street Hassle, Magic and Loss and Set the Twilight Reeling

Even his worst albums often have some good songs

>>75081458

>be Bowie's fucking idol and arguably be his biggest influence, he's such a fanboy that he even liked your collaboration with fucking Metallica
>don't ever achieve a tenth of his commercial success or recognition

Lou walked a lonely road

Maybe he and Bowie should have done a collaborative album like Leon Russel and Elton did to help boost his profile (I know Bowie helped out on Transformer but it was basically just a Lou Reed solo album)

>>75086941

I can see my way to including the Raven on that list but are we really going to pretend that MMM and Lulu are classics

>>75084878

Lou was literally the epitome of cool, I can't think of another artist who was cool in literally everything he did

Dylan used to be even when he went through his Christian period, but the Christmas album I just couldn't forgive

>>75085734
>>75085651

>What does Robert Christgau do in bed? I mean, is he a toe fucker? [ . . . ] Can you imagine working for a fucking year, and you get a B+ from some asshole in The Village Voice?"

Why was Lou so fucking savage

>>75086941
>Metal Machine Music
>Lulu
>The Raven
>Good

>>75086997
imo Dylan has nothing on Lou. Dylan was too concerned about sounding literary, whereas Lou was literary but in a less pretentious way that actually makes you feel something. Dylan is brainwank but has never actually made me feel intensely like what Candy Says, Pale Blue Eyes, Heroin and other Lou songs are capable of. that said I do respect Dylan a little more for that Christian period, showed some integrity

>>75086972
They are classics if you like anything about Lou Reed

>>75087040
>Can you imagine working for a fucking year, and you get a B+ from some asshole in The Village Voice?

i think of this quote every fucking time i read a christgau review. the guy's ego is fucking insane

>>75081458

>you will never exist in the underground rock scene of New York in the 1960s

it feels like music is basically over today, I know that's probably not fair but things really have changed. If you aren't a hit on your first album you're fucked

Billy Joel started in 1971, his first album was an unmitigated disaster, his next few albums had some minor hits but still barely charted, and he didn't have a major breakthrough until 1977 with the Stranger.

Plus Walter Yetnikoff apparently threatened some asshole who had ripped Billy for publishing rights to his music, and then gifted them back to Billy as a birthday present

Can that happen today? Would anyone in the industry advocate for artists like that because they have faith in the music?

>>75081458

Is it even possible to become a Lou Reed type figure in this day and age? Not to be le wrong generation but can someone rise up like he did and reinvent popular music?

>>75087188
No, but not because of music itself it's because of globalization, nothing can be like it was before the Internet because the way things spread culturally isn't even comparable

>>75087221

The internet was a mistake

>>75087080
Dylan is more interested in Americana and folk/roots rock than Lou who was basically an urban hipster shaped by big city values.

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>>75085651
>Because your humble servant is attacked by name on
>your humble servant
>humble servant
>humble

>>75087188
that's something we can't answer but my gut tells me no. It's been 60 years and nothing close to it has happened. anything "new" now is still derivative of it. Idk I'm trying to think of acclaimed "reinventive" bands and Animal Collective comes to mind but it's not the same thing at all. U2 reinvented popular music but on a much smaller scale, basically paved the way for Radiohead which is also hailed as inventive but really they're not doing anything revolutionary. Pavement reinvented pop music with the indie scene, but they were also largely indebted to VU and didn't predate multiple subgenres and styles, probably the closest thing I can think of though

>>75087119

All you hear is how influential he was in terms of pioneering rock criticism, but all I think when I hear that is that probably means we should just get rid of rock criticism as it currently exists

How can you sum up someone's life work over the course of months and sometimes years with a few pithy sentences ("capsule reviews") that read like they come from an English undergrad with no other job options

I really don't think anyone has business being a critic as a profession without having training in their subject area, can Christgau explain what time signature is? Syncopation? Harmonic rhythm? Maybe, maybe not.

>>75087277
Nah Lou was big on roots rock too. Also have you seen young Dylan? The epitome of urban hipster shaped by bcv

>>75087321
What does Robert Christgau do in bed? You know, is he a toe-fucker? Man, anal-retentive—The Consumer’s Guide to Rock? What a moron! A Consumer’s Guide to Rock, man! I object to the fucking liner notes. Start studying rock and roll? I can’t believe it. “Baroque Rock: A Study by Robert Christgau.”

>>75087188

I feel like we've kind of reached the end of history in music. The only thing to do is go backwards or make new combinations of genres, but that's it.

Lou Reed wasn't blessed enough to come up with those anthemic songs Dylan had, so normies don't know him as much.

>>75087378

Closest he came was Walk on the Wild Side, which incidentally I don't even think was his greatest song. Doesn't matter, all of his songs are classics to me

>>75087321
Rolling Stone and Creem reviewers from the 70s were usually a lot better in that they actually bothered writing a whole article on the album rather than a two sentence insult.

>>75087413
>>75087321

I can't deny that I would love to make a million dollar career by writing two sentence putdowns, but anyone can do that. Christgau managed to do it first, possibly because no one was petty or arrogant enough to do that to artists first

>In December 1980, Christgau provoked angry responses from Voice readers when his column approvingly quoted his wife Carola Dibbell's reaction to the murder of John Lennon: "Why is it always Bobby Kennedy or John Lennon? Why isn't it Richard Nixon or Paul McCartney?"

They both seem disgusting, glad they found each other.

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>>75087413
Example. This Rolling Stone review for Motley Crue--Shout at the Devil. The reviewer explains in a clear, concise, and dispassionate way how the album is all fluff and no substance and how nobody but edgy 13 year olds would be impressed by this stuff.

>>75087531
Honestly, the world would probably have been better if it was Paul McCartney, because Lennon would have killed himself but people wouldn't spend the next few decades shitting on Paul

John getting killed made his garbage continue to endure its undeserved acclaim

>>75086950
I wouldn't say either of them were each other's idols, they were contemporaries who respected the shit out of each other

>>75087608

I don't understand why the world has decided Paul was the bad guy of the Beatles, he was objectively a more gifted composer and he was only the first to quit publicly because John "Jesus" Lennon announced privately to the group that he was quitting first

the Let It Be movie shows that Paul was basically the only one still interested in saving the group, everyone else seemed fucking bored

>>75087600
Shout at the Devil [Elektra, 1984]

It should come as no surprise that this platinum product is utter dogshit even by heavy metal standards. Under orders from editors unable to distinguish Iron Maiden from Wynton Marsalis, my beleaugered colleagues at the dailies have been saying so all year and every insult goes into the press kit. Still, I must mention Mick Mars's dork-fingered guitar before getting to the one truly remarkable thing about this record--a track called "Ten Seconds to Love" where singer Vince Neil appears to actually boast (!) about how fast he can ejaculate. Therein I believe lies the secret to their appeal--if you don't got it, flaunt it. Followup--"Pinkie Prick". D

Now compare Christgau's review. It's just a string of insults with no subtly or useful info about the album (while the RSM reviewer breaks down several tracks on it). Also from reading this review, it's obvious that he ignored SATD for months and only after it started to climb up the charts, he hastily sat down and shit this out.

>>75081458
He's pointing at us.

>>75087600

Even this review seems a little needlessly mean spirited, but certainly better than some pretentious Village Voice toefucker

There's no need for rock criticism anymore when you don't need to pay to hear music anymore

>>75087653
>I don't understand why the world has decided Paul was the bad guy of the Beatles
Because Paul made all the gooey cutesy pop songs and didn't have Lennon's edge or politics. Duh.

>>75087687
honestly Maxwell's Hammer might be the worst thing anyone associated with the Beatles ever did

>>75087687

I don't know if I'd call them gooey, some were schmaltzy but you have to apply emotion to your music to some degree. Let It Be was a good example I think of a song saying something heartfelt without being pretentious or overly sentimental

"Imagine" on the other hand I found to be simplistic and self-important

>>75087732
>Imagine

>>75087148
tl;dr

>>75087732
You haven't heard some Ringo or George solo albums if you think that.

>>75087687
See, but John is only outstanding in the framework of The Beatles, Paul is a pop artist who stood atop all other pop artists

John is a political hipster who was inferior to (if not just straight derivative of) many other classics of his generation

John is only a big deal if all you listen to is The Beatles but you don't like pop music that is trying to be pop music, Paul was extremely talented and excelled at doing what he did

>>75087739
i prefer Imagine desu

>>75087765
probably true. as far as Beatles songs though it's the worst, I prefer every Ringo and Harrison to it, though tbf they didn't write nearly as many

>>75087801
You're correct in the sense that Paul was the only Beatle to have a viable solo career. The rest didn't last much past 1972, or roughly when they used up their supply of unused Beatles material.

>>75087732
It's pretty catchy honestly, and the lyrics are funny

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>>75081458
Transformer was a great album. It't my favorite album of his. Coney Island Baby, Blue Mask, Berlin, and New York are really good as well.

>>75087639
Bowie once said that Lou was to him what Chuck Berry was to the Rolling Stones.

Done With Mirrors [Geffen, 1985]

Their knack for the small song as well as small use for guitar hero costume drama has always made them a hard rock band worthy of the name, not to mention of course being American. But after a decade of substance abuse problems and bad albums, it was a long road back. And against all odds, the old farts light one up. If you can stand the crunch, side one has more get up and go than any one of a dozen random neogarage EPs. B+

Christgau's review of DWM. The absolutely hilarious part about this is that he bitches nonstop about misogyny in rock, but gives this a B plus? Did he literally not pay a single bit of attention to the lyrics?

>>75083612
Yeah, but he was a documented cocksucker, so........

>>75085046
That's what Lou said to andy

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RSM review for Aerosmith--Done With Mirrors. The reviewer correctly calls out this album for the tired, burned out dreck it is, and the band themselves have since disowned this album.

>>75084984
And hitting women.
don't forget
he was abusive.

>>75087531
FWIW Christgau and his wife were personal friends of Lennon and Yoko Ono.

>>75087995
He sure loved hitting heroine in his prime
But seriously, Quick rundown?

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He actually wrote an entire fucking essay on Liz Phair S/T, a total embarrassment of an album that cost her almost all of her fanbase.

>>75087995
As was John Lennon. :^)

>>75085741
You don't think country boys are sucking cock behind the barn? It's called youth. Get some.

>>75087531
They have no kids of their own, only an adopted daughter so at least they'll never pass on their genes. :^)

>>75085981
It happens pretty much everyday in every city

>>75088105
Ok but everyone knows the really edgy, groundbreaking cultural movements happen in the big cities, not in Dead Cow Creek, Nebraska.

>>75088046
That album does suck mightily. Her delivery is so flat compared with her earlier stuff so you can tell right off the bat that she's just doing this for money.

>>75087801
Wow.
its like you missed the forest for the edge.

>>75088129
What was slint?

"According to Mick Jagger, the song was inspired by "Heroin" by the Velvet Underground."

Even the Stones were inspired by him. It's truly amazing how influential one person can be

>>75088046
The write-up he did on Janet Jackson--Damita Jo was far worse than that even.

>>75081806
Have you listened to New York? his best album imo

>>75087057
>Hasn't actually listened to the albums and can't form his own opinion but he read on a music board that those albums aren't good and calls out anybody who disagrees

>puts Iron Maiden in the Meltdown list along with 80s one hit wonders

>>75087965
so even cooler

>>75088219
amateurs that's what

>>75085651
i killed christgau with my big fucking dick

>>75087148
you gotta read up more on bands dude. with very few exceptions most bands' "first albums" are hardly their first crack at it (changing now with bandcamp etc but we're talking label releases). artists have always had to cut their teeth being small time before anyone who matters takes notice

>>75081458
Metal Machine Music is the only solo album of his I've listened to. I thought it was good.