STOP TALKING ABOUT TRAP RAP LIKE IT'S GOOD MUSIC

what is "good music????"

>>74600499
Trap is dead. Boy i know you a lame if you don#t fuck with this trap wave

>>74600517
something that trap rap is not

>>74600531
fuck off normie

>>74600499
get ur clout up OP

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UGHHHH BRUH 'CHU KNOW BOUT REAL HIP HOP
U AIN'T EVEN KNOW MY BOY BIGGIE AND PAC NIGGA GO LISTEN TO SOME REAL SHIT MAYNE BAKA

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kendrick-lamar/to-pimp-a-butterfly-1/

#1 album 2015

#66 OAT

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>hip hop in any form is good music
It is at best background noise.
>inb4 someone recommends that same few /mu/core hip hop albums as good music

^
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kendrick-lamar/to-pimp-a-butterfly-1/

A genre that is mostly based off sending a message/lyrics is background music?

No album will get this much praise if it were just background music. The lyrics and the production were really good

>>74601537
Not my fault if these people are so easily impressed. Remember Plato's cave analogy. They have no idea what wonders lie beyond the world of shitty 808's and 'THIS DICK AINT FREEEEEE'.

^ I knew someone was going to say this that's why I linked this album ratings from RateYourMusic

The site where ALL music gets reviewed. Hell, one of the first reviews the guy said he doesn't like rap but loved "U" and "I" from the album.

So what the fuck is your point?

>>74601605
your point of view is a shallow fallacy. think before you type.

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>>74601688
As I said, easily impressed, if you spend your life listening to shitty music then shitty music will seem impressive.
>>74601738
>Plato is a shallow fallacy

Why are rap fans so defensive about their children's music genre?

>>74601769
"If you spend your life listening to shitty music"

I just linked you the site where the album got reviewed by people who don't listen to "shitty" music and has made it to the #1 spot of any album in 2015 if any genre

So what's your point? People that don't listen to that "childish" genre, loved the album that is apart of that genre

>>74601823
>I just linked you the site where the album got reviewed by people who don't listen to "shitty" music
100% chance they listen to /mu/core. Having a RYM account is not a symbol of having a good taste in music. As I said, Plato's cave.

>>74601823
Just stop. He is either straight up shitposting or he actually believes his own elitist babble. Either way, there is no meaningful discussion to be had here.

>>74601853

"I really Dislike Rap but Kendrick Lamar is fucking incredible.

i, u, Mortal Man, Hood Politics, Wesley's Theory are all incredible.
I am honestly blown away and surprised"

On the 3rd page of the reviews of this album.

http://www.metacritic.com/music/to-pimp-a-butterfly/kendrick-lamar

https://www.google.com/amp/pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/20390-to-pimp-a-butterfly/amp/

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kendrick-lamar/to-pimp-a-butterfly-1/

The album is good, people like it, not everyone that likes it is a rap fan

>>74601888
>This pleb likes a shit record so the shit record is good
You must be really dense.

>>74601769
you misrepresent plato. you pretend I reacted in regards to the reference, but I in fact was referencing your misunderstanding of its meaning.

everything in this life is personal. when we die, there is no longer a cave.

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>>74601901
Wrong btw.

>>74601468
It's the most deluded fanbase ever. What's worse is when they claim to have a diverse taste in music because they went to whosampled.com and listened to a few jazz records. They genuinely believe hip hop gives them eclectic taste

>>74601921
explain it then

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>>74601933
I remember when /mu/ hyped Kanye West's TLOP as a gospel record. Rap fans are desperate for validation. Also when initially checking out the genre you get recommended Madvillainy, what an odd choice, 'here, listen to a record of other peoples music, 10/10 best record ever'
>>74601956
I've already used the analogy earlier in this thread friend.

>>74601933
>they

sound is not defined by the actions of a few.

>>74601964
you misused it and cannot explain what it means. do you not know the difference between subjectivity and objectivity? where did you study?

>>74601888
If you honestly think a record that starts with This Dick Ain't Free and King Kunta can be considered one of the best of all time you need to kill yourself. The album got caught up in a hype storm and it is nowhere near on par with other genres. It's placed at number 50 in the greatest albums OF ALL TIME on RYM. If that doesn't show you the redundancy of cross-genre reviews I don't know what will.

>>74601978
I didn't misuse it you mongrel. As I've said I've already explained it earlier in this thread. It's none of my concern if you don't understand Plato. Then again you think 'this dick aint free' is lyrical genius 10/10 so you're probably not too bright.

>>74601933
Stop acting retarded like you can't understand a simple point.

I literally just linked a place where most of the people there are not hip hop fans, giving the album praise

You guys keep saying the same argument that anyone who likes it doesn't listen to "real" music when I clearly showed you that is not the case

>>74601990
I don't like it, but the reason you gave for it not being able to be considered is strange. because it holds a song with a brash delivery, or a memorable pop song, it can't be in the running?

>>74601933
You are everything that is wrong with this website

>>74601990
I don't understand your beef with For Free. That track really grew on me.
Something you also fail to grasp is the fact that our taste is not the objective truth.
>If you honestly think a record that starts with This Dick Ain't Free and King Kunta can be considered one of the best of all time you need to kill yourself
You need to spend less time on 4chan, this is really laughable.

>>74601990

The top tracks weren't "for free" or "king kunta"

The top tracks were "U" which had nothing to do with what you are describing and "blacker the berry" where he criticizes the black community

Just another salty edge lord who knows jack shit but wants to give an opinion anyway to feel "special"

>>74602011
Ren and Stimpy has brash delivery, Tenacious D have brash delivery. I wouldn't hail them as great works of art. Yet Kendrick gets a pass.
>>74602022
>t. 14 year old spamming Lil Peep

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>>74602028
>taste is not the objective truth.
This is laughable.

>>74602011
>>74602007
Listen, it's like movies getting 100% on rotten tomatoes. Do you really think half of those movies are 9+/10 movies if you consider them on a scale with ALL movies? It's confirmation bias and looking at things with a skewed perception because you just experienced them. I'm not implying it isn't real music but holy shit take it down from the pedestal for a minute. The praise of lyricism over musical ability is honestly a disservice to modern music and should stop

>>74601964

It's because how else would you prove that an album is not bad or worth a listen. Music is subjective, but the only way to prove dumb fucks such as yourself that an album is "worthy" is to link music critics that are not biased to any genre giving you THEIR opinion

So again, what's your point?

>>74601997
you act as if music is practical. it is art, it doesn't make sense the way you discuss it. people often get wrapped up in the arts, so much that they begin to believe that it means so much more than it does. these wonders you speak of, to others more or less educated than you they are worthless, and neither you or them are wrong.

music isn't useful. it isn't a tool box, with some people blindly picking the less capable wrench, and some deciding based on some sort of knowledge the best tool to use. that isn't what art is.

>>74602029
>muh black community
>muh social commentary
sO dEeP bRo

If you like Kendric Lamar you're a fucking idiot

>>74602081
which is why your plato analogy makes no sense here.

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>>74602079
>>74602081
>music is subjective
Stop this. Nobody intelligent thinks this. Objective beauty is undeniable, only those with bad taste deny this, and thus want to change the rules to make their taste the 'good' taste.

>>74602030
There's more to all of those things that their delivery, which is why I questioned your limited reasoning in the first place.

>>74602070
Oh my god you people do not pay any fuckin attention lol

I'm saying that if someone says that something is OBJECTIVELY bad, The ONLY way to try and prove them "wrong" is by giving them the general acclaim of whatever they are criticizing

You don't think I know music is subjective? I listen to tons of music from all sorts of genre, I'm just not going to be like the people in this thread judging something they know little about

Hell, people think "for free" is THE track for to pimp a butterfly. That's dumb as fuck if you actually listen to the album

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>no one has yet to prove to me why hip hop is good
>all they can say is that taste is subjective, essentially admitting that hip hop is bad by any reasonable standard
Holy fuck the teenagers on /mu/.

>>74602110
I'm sorry to tell you this, but intelligent people do think this. it's the other side who often can't find themselves, can't find the confidence to enjoy what they love. It's they who cling to the opinions of few, hoping to gain merit from what it is they enjoy. Objective beauty is deniable. without humanity, beauty doesn't exist. we made it up. beauty is defined by our feelings, and we don't all feel the same.

>>74602133
nobody needs to prove anything to you. if you don't like it, that's fine. if you want to like it but can't, I'm sorry.

>>74602110
So what if someone "intelligent" likes this album?

I'm sorry, your point was pretty fuckin dumb. If that's the case, this album would not be getting this much praise by critics who review music from various genres. Period

Music is about as subjective as how subjective video games or movies are. Not everyone is going to like the same thing silly ass

>>74602146
>It's they who cling to the opinions of few, hoping to gain merit from what it is they enjoy
>*links to RYM and metacritic as evidence of why hip hop is good*
Genius.
>>74602162
No one intelligent would like hip hop. This is a fact.

>>74602167
I didn't post those links. anything else to say to back up your point? or just more deflecting the truth...

>>74602133
>all they say is that taste is subjective

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kendrick-lamar/to-pimp-a-butterfly-1/

http://www.metacritic.com/music/to-pimp-a-butterfly/kendrick-lamar

https://www.google.com/amp/pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/20390-to-pimp-a-butterfly/amp/

Without showing you the genreal consensus, how else can I prove something that is subjective is "objectively" good or bad? Dumb fuck

>>74602146
>we all feel different things
True, and if 'this dick aint free' speaks to you then you may not be the brightest bulb.

>>74602194
>a bunch of idiots liking music is objective
Clearly not too bright. If you understood music then you would understand why hip hop can never be objectively good, the opinions of morons matter for nothing in this respect.

>>74602167

Explain to me how I'm supposed to prove that something is objectively good or bad without showing you the general consensus of the thing being criticized?

>>74602200
it doesn't speak to me personally, but Im wise enough to know that taste does not define intelligence.

>>74602215

So what if someone that understands music likes the album?

What then? You cannot PROVE something that is subjective is objectively good or bad

That's why I linked a site from all of those critics. Stop acting dense. You have yet to refute my point

>>74602223
By its objective credits as music. It's use of melody, texture, timbre, rhythm, etc.
>>74602234
It's a pretty good indicater though, who do you think is smarter? The person who studies classical music? Or the person that thinks someone 'spitting' over stolen jazz instrumentals is good music?

>>74602215
music is not good or bad. we only like or dislike it, such is with anything in regards to art. you'll understand soon enough.

>>74602240
No one that genuinely understands music would like the Kendrick Lamar. Using music journalists and random people on the internet as examples of people who 'understand' music is pretty poor.

>>74602200
That wasn't the point of the song and that is not the only song on the album you dense fuck

Stop, you have no point other than "DICK AINT FREE STUPID RITE GUYS!?"

>>74602257
The entire album is stupid. That's just an 'example' (say this word slowly to yourself) of one part of it that's stupid. Or are you really that fucking thick? Then again you like hip hop so I don't expect you to understand these things.

>>74602241
*indicator

I personally don't think it indicates anything. the person who studies classical music could easily be a moron. art doesn't make you smarter.

>>74602254

You have yet to see the tens of thousands of people that reviewed the album

Saying not one of them understands "music" is a stretch considering these same people review music/albums of various genres with melodies, texture rhythm

You still have yet to refute my point. You can't read?

>>74602283
you're actually a good example of the point I proved here >>74602288

>>74602288
>heh looks like you made a spelling mistake, guess that means you're wrong.
Classic indicator of a moran. Clearly you don't understand music either.
>>74602291
If they enjoy hip hop then they don't understand music, simple as that.

>>74602283

I like hip hop, Metal, classical, electronic, classics rock and a whole lot more

I listened to that album from sun rise to sun down and it's nothing like you described. You are a dumb dense fuck who knows little of what you are talking about

>>74602328
Ah so you're just the kind of idiot that listens to whatever /mu/ tells him he likes. Nicely done lad. You're really smart. Try forming an opinion for yourself.

>>74602322
you still have not backed your points up once. I still answered you, you clung on to one part of my response again.

>>74602322

>if they like hip hop they don't understand music

And what if hip hop is not the only thing they like? What if they don't like hip hop but liked this album (which is the case for a lot of people) what then?

I'm sorry but your point makes no sense

>>74602341
>p...people on the internet say it's good so it must be good
Go outside, see the world.

>>74602338
what music are you into?

>>74602348
Then the odds are they're like >>74602338

>>74602354
Miles Davis, John Coltrane, the list could go on.

>>74602350
what? you're not making sense. I never said any of that.

>>74602338

I'm barely on this board lmao. I'm just not going to change my opinion by a few dense fucks who never listened to the album give their opinion on it

Like I said, I listen to A LOT of genres. Hip hop is DEFINITELY not the only one

>>74602363
you mean /mu/ core?

>>74602350

>p...people on the internet say it's bad

Go outside, see the world

>>74602376
>I'm barely on this board lmao.
I only have your word for that, as far as I can see you just like to regurgitate whatever the internet tells you your opinion is.
>>74602385
Unlike hip hop fans I understand music and can form my own opinions on it.

>>74602363
we all know you're trolling. you're not wasting anyones time. we're on 4chan, obviously whatever time you're wasting isn't important anyway.

>>74602392
>n...no one can think for themselves and think hip hop is genuinely bad music...it must be a troll
Get out of your echo chamber.

>>74602363

> The odds are, they're like you

Lol what dumb fucking argument.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A-RthkmOZGM

This is a full on metal head. He's nothing like me lmao

>>74602391
all of your opinions are influenced. I'm sorry to open your eyes, but it's impossible not to be influenced. and if you think music is objective then you don't understand music. sorry.

>>74602399
again, you misunderstand everything. you can dislike music, but you cannot bring objectivity into it. repeat that word to yourself... o b j e c t i v i t y

>>74602399

How can it be objectively bad but receive this much praise from non hip hop fans?

You have yet to prove this album is objectively bad you dense fuck

>>74602404
>linking to coverkillernation
The absolute state of you rap fags.
>>74602405
My opinions are of course influenced by music theory. That helps me to understand what is good and bad music. Hip hop is bad music.
>>74602417
Same goes for you as above.

>>74602425
don't stoop to his level. there is no objectivity, only subjectivity. you can't prove if it's good or bad, you can only express why you like it.

>>74602434
music theory does not help you understand what is good and bad. you are connecting dots that are not meant to be connected.

>>74602434
Point is clovernation is NOTHING like me you dumb fuck. Which completely destroys that dumb ass argument you decided to make

Music theory...lol. So is metal "real" music? If so, how come someone that generally likes metal also likes this album

Refute. This. Point. You have yet to answer that

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>>74602434
You've just been listening to the wrong hip hop.

>>74602425
>give examples of why it's bad earlier in the thread
>get told I can't use those examples
Huh...
>>74602445
If you smear shit on your face by your standards it's beautiful and art.
>this is what rap fans actually believe
>>74602463
>music theory does not help you understand what is good and bad
And with that hip hop has lost all credibility as a music genre. How can one fanbase be this stupid? I guess if you rot your mind with simple song structure, the same repeated instrumentation and 'this dick aint free' then you're not going to turn out too bright.

>>74602481
He obviously doesn't understand music, watch his videos, the guy is an idiot. He, very much like you, is told he likes Kendrick Lamar and thus regurgitates this opinion everywhere else. I get it, having original thoughts is hard, you'll get there one day.

>>74602483
again, you act as if music means anything. it is art, art is impractical. remember my tool box analogy. It is not a choice between good and bad, but what you like more or less.

>If you smear shit on your face by your standards it's beautiful and art.

you are no different than those who belittle art with phrases like "my two year old could do this".

>>74602498
haha this is the first thing you've said that's made me laugh. no human has ever had an original thought, I'm sorry. everything is influenced.

Commercial hip hop is some of the worst music ever... probably thee worse, but Hip Hop has the potential to be very great if a rapper actually puts his heart into his music. 2pac is a great example of what I mean...

2pac did his records naturally... he was a thoroughbred rapper. He rapped about things he really believed in. He wasnt mechanical like Nas or Immortal Technique or Biggie. His library didnt consist entirely of music geared in every conceivable way to sell.. His want to change the world could be felt through his songs, and I've never seen another rapper like that.

Songs like Brendas got a Baby, Part Time Mutha, Dear Mama are exemplary rap songs, and as far as I know, no other rapper has equivalents to those. They may broach the same topic but the delivery and emotion is never there.

Hip hop so far hasn't been able to produce another 2pac for some reason. He's the only rap artist in the same pantheon as other music legends like Bob Marley, Elvis...

>>74602528
Those people you speak of are right. Why would you poison your mind with bad art?

>>74602498
He reviewed TWO Kendrick Lamar albums amongst the 100s of metal albums on his channel.

lol, you have no argument. He's not a rap fan. He's a metal fan that just so happens to like Kendrick lamar. Is Metal "real" music?

You have yet to refute my point, you just keep repeating the same shit without anything to back it up, you did NOT listen to the album, that is apparent

>>74602541
I'm happy he makes your ears feel good, but he isn't objectively better than anyone. not an insult, but by definition he can't be.

>>74602551
I actually have listened to it. What a silly assumption to make. You clearly have the reading comprehension of a 5 year old if you fail to understand what I'm saying.

>>74602546
those people are regressive, they fear what they don't understand. you are one of them, and you are dying out. I am arguing with you for sport. you have already lost.

>>74602541
Tupac is better than nas?

Tupac is great but Nas and Kendrick's "to pimp a butterfly" were also trying to change not the world, but their community with their songs

>>74602570
Then you would know making "dick aint free" the poster content of the album is dumb as all fuck considering that song had little to do with the others.

Also, you have yet to tell me how this album is objectively bad despite all the praise it gets from non hip hop fans

>>74602560
>He says as he smears pig feces on his face and claims to be an artist
yeah, what is objectivity, am i rite?
>>74602578
>hey this is really bad
>NO IT ISN'T YOU ARE JUST AFRAID OF WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST
One of the stupidest things I've ever read coming from a hip hop fan. Congrats.

>>74602590
>you have to explain why an album is bad
>but don't mention anything that proves me wrong
Jeez you're not too smart, are you?

>>74602601

Jeez you're not too smart, are you?

Dumb mother fucker. What sources do you have to prove that this album is objectively bad? You have yet to answer this. You just keep twisting words around because you can't prove your point.

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>rap fans legitimately have to resort to saying there is no such thing as good music in order to defend their shitty music
You cannot make this up

>>74602591

>He says as he smears pig feces on his face and claims to be an artist
yeah, what is objectivity, am i rite?

And this album is the equivalent to that? Prove that it is

>>74602591
im not even a hip hop fan, just a logical thinker who understands the definitions of things... and the difference between subjectivity and objectivity.

>>74602621
>what sources
music theory.

>>74602625
>prove that this shit music is shit
All you need to do is listen to it. Block out what you've been told you think and listen.

>>74602591
if art was objective, there would be no art. I literally do not have to say anything else because this is the absolute truth.

>>74602624

>rap fans legitimately have to resort to saying there is no such thing as good music in order to defend their shitty music

So what if non rap fans that listen to "good music" defend this album?

This is the point you dense fucks have yet to prove. The point is, the genreal consensus for this album from people that listen to all kinds of music, is that the album is good. Which proves you do NOT have to be a hip hop fan to like a kendrick album

>>74602627
I know music theory, it doesn't prove your points because it isn't about understanding good or bad. try again, this time think.

>>74602627
>My shitty theory > tens of thousands of non hip hop fan, music critics

>>74602658
I'm not going to bother repeating the same points for you again. I get that your slow but the great thing about reading is you can go back over it.
>>74602661
>music theory doesn't help with understanding good or bad music
The absolute state of rap fans
>>74602673
>music theory is something I have just made up
Proving once again that rap fans are morons. You clearly know nothing.

>>74602627
Tell me you favorite musician

If I find someone that likes anything hip hop related that listens to your favorite artist, you must admit defeat because it will destroy your ENTIRE retarded point, k?

>>74602684
respond to this please >>74602647

Also, explain how music theory helps discern good or bad music.

>>74602693
>not understanding my point
Rap fans everyone, simply the most retarded group of people on earth.
>>74602697
That's a really stupid point. To deny objective beauty is to admit to being an idiot only interested in justifying your bad taste that you admit is bad.

>>74602684
>music theory doesn't help with understanding good or bad music
The absolute state of rap fans

God you are fucking retarded. I literally showed you non hip hop fans liking the album. So what now?

>music theory is something I have just made up
Proving once again that rap fans are morons. You clearly know nothing.

How can you tell that they're rap and ONLY rap fans? Another dumbass argument dude. Come on man

>>74602706
>not understanding my points
Are you stupid or just purposely avoiding what I'm saying? I'm going for you being stupid since you defend hip hop.

>>74602658
To Pimp a Butterfly was shit...

I also seem to remember there being a song with all sorts of fake emotions being displayed. I was emarrassed for Kendrick...

Usually, there's at least one standout track in an album. TPaB had none. BE and Universal Mind Control by Common were both way better. Especially BE.

>>74602702
can you share with me some objective beauty?

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>>74602717

>>74602733
Defaux was certainly talented, but a great many of his pieces are amateurish, including this one. who led you to believe that this is objectively beautiful?

>>74602762
>implying I need someone to tell me what I think my opinion is
Need to do better than that.

>>74602702
>Rap fans everyone, simply the most retarded group of people on earth

You have yet to prove that the album is objectively bad you dumb fuck.

>that's a really stupid point. To deny objective beauty is to admit to being an idiot only interested in justifying your bad taste that you admit is bad.

Person 1 (you): Dark Souls is a terrible video game

Person 2: Well, since everyone does not have the same taste in games, maybe the general consensus of this game might change your opinion

Person 1: Those people have bad taste in games

Person 2: Well, prove that they have bad taste.

Person 1: They all like what you like

Person 2: Well, prove that they all like what I like

Person 1: ....

Person 2:...

>>74602780
But how do you know this is beautiful?

>>74602733
also, did you not even catch that I named the wrong artist for your supposed objectively beautiful piece?

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>>74600499
Stop not listening to Lil Peep.

>>74602780
also, if it is your opinion as you say, then it is subjective. or do you not agree on definitions either?

>>74602849
>also, if it is your opinion as you say, then it is subjective.

Fuckin THANK YOU

Holy shit

electro-swing > reggaeton >>>> trap