/Classical/

Downloaded the first piece in the first link. Didn't work. Downloaded the second, worked. Bartok violin concerto no 2. Literally what the fuck is that? Going to listen to the whole piece with earphones. I'm not used to listen to that type of classical music. I've heard some quartets that are like that too.

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Why is he considered "great" again?

>>74482783
Because he wrote feel-goody music for aristocrats.

>>74482783
He wrote the best music.

>>74483512
Fuck off Poly

>>74482783
If you need to ask that, what are you even doing here?

>>74483512
>Because he wrote feel-goody music for aristocrats.
>struggled to maintain a job and died in poverty

>>74482312
You tryin harder than me OP, i just try and get lucky on google searches. Bad time, Id rather improvise and play with scales.

>>74482312
>>74483974
there's a really huge mega link for sheet music called IMSLP.org
good luck trying to find something written in the last 50 years tho

>>74484589
their fucking timer screen drives me up a wall
I wish someone would put up a mirror

>>74484740
i usually shitpost while waiting for the timer

reminder that https://classicalmusiconly.com is one of the best and most underrated classical music websites

Can someone give me a non meme answer as to why Rachmaninov is bad?

>>74483959
Well both are true mostly. He died relatively poor because he was a better composer than money manager. His widow helped redeem him and turn a profit from him after his death. Aristocrats are fickle, and there were lots of composers vying for their scraps. Mozart was the wunderkind early in his career that everyone wanted but by the end of his life he had fallen out of fashion which is why late pieces like The Magic Flute was more a populist opera for the plebs rather than made for court entertainment.

>>74482312
>Sheet music
sheeeeiiit

Can someone tell me what the music at the start of this is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWzlO7HkF3w

>>74482783
turned boring superficial music for aristocrats into a high art form for all and everyone

>>74486079
Exploited romantic standards long after the death of romantic art (he was a contemporary of Schoenberg and Scriabin, for god's sake)
But old wealthy American ladies loved it anyway, so who cares, right?

>>74486230
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXh5JprKqiU

>>74486320
Thanks senpai

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>>74486345

Eisler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXSymRTugqk

>>74482783
He wrote the most beautiful melodies.

>>74486384
nice commie music
but i prefer the soviets

>>74486406
Prokofiev and Shostakovich are pretty good.

>>74486413
huh, they're not just good, they convey the spirit of that age

Do you know any classical music that sounds like these ones:
https://youtu.be/APGn9uNwQuc
https://youtu.be/W_z2FZVp8Ns

Just getting into classical, so far I'm digging Xenakis most, with Penderecki as a close second. Any more like this?

>>74486473
Ligeti, Nono, Kagel

>>74486295
Well I don't know much about classical Muslims as I'm only new to it so I'm not at the a level of understanding what is considered good or not.

>>74486571
lol what

>>74486571
*music

>>74486461
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-GEbbgT5Io
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePBB-NO8vKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akk7MuJWIeg

>>74486575
Autocorrect my dude

>>74486571
If you like it, just enjoy it
we don't enjoy things here, we judge things

>>74486598
More like mind rotted by too much /pol/

Is Biber one of the most underrated composers ever? His work for violin is outstanding. He does things that if they came from someone like, say, Bach, many scholars would be wetting themselves and talking about it with no end.

>>74486744
Well he doesn't do much else other than that. It's more like stunt playing, the equivalent of Jimi Hendrix playing his guitar behind his head. He's good and so are his other works, listen to his Batallia, just hasn't the range of Bach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9DJpaxT7wg

So who actually wrote the tocatta and fugue in d minor, and what else did they write?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cobaQ4PFsZg

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Bach did the WTC.

>>74486784
Jesus fucking christ, what the fuck was going on at 1:44 in this video, holy fucking shit, I can't believe it

>>74486798
Petzold

>>74486784
>>74487150
oh my god my sides are in orbit

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>>74486217
lol

>>74486784
Of course, I never meant he's as great as Bach. My point is that sometimes the awesome works from not so well know or not as great (albeit amazing enough) musicians are neglected because of who they are; or, to be more precise, because of who they aren't.
I've been listening this morning to Harmonia artificiosa (by Savall), and I've heard the Rosary Sonatas as well, and I believe it's outstanding music often neglected.

>>74482312
I use scribd for things not on IMSLP, I just make random drawings on paint, convert to pdf and upload it when asked.

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXZO8HMrF_0

>>74489510
I love the ludus tonalis

Is there a piece of music comfier than the Goldberg Variations?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah392lnFHxM

>>74489552
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2a2iObc6H00

Can you recommend me something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tB2SLLnPZg

>>74489852
tchaikovsky, the list can go on..

>>74486079
his music is often bloated and repetitive, but so's the emperor concerto so who the hell knows

>>74482783
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQMbo-WzqDc

now shut up

>>74487150
>>74487517
its supposed to replicate drunk people at a pub singing a bunch of different folk tunes from different countries

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who /zelenka>bach/ here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk717tZzKkk

Why the hell are these threads being deleted?
Or are they just dying because no one posts in them?

Thoughts on Erland Von Koch?

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the bumblebee man wrote nothing worthwhile. prove me wrong.

>>74491227
literally vho?

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>>74491151
bingo

>>74483959
I never said he was good at it :^)

>>74486473
>getting into classical
>start with retarded postmodernism

>>74486461
Harry Partch

>>74491227
Koch's music could have been composed by any of the thousands of 20th century composers who did not wish to emancipate the dissonance. It is extremely middle of the road and inoffensive. It is also unmemorable

>>74491516
Neither of those composers is postmodernist. Schnittke, Zimmermann, Cage, and Kagel are prime postmodernism.

>>74491259
sadko's song is great, fuck you

>>74491684
Yes agreed they are Trash. The quintessential postmodernist composer is Berio tho . And yes he is also trash

>>74490927
charles ives gets way too much credit. baroque composers in general were way more adventurous than bach's work would lead you to believe

>>74491839
I like the Sinfonia, but a lot of his music seems excessive to me. I wouldn't say trash necessarily, it just isn't my taste.

Of the composers I listed I probably like Schnittke the least. But I seem to have an aversion to most Russians who aren't Stravinsky, so that may be the real issue.

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What would he listen to?

>>74492508
Some gay ass pipe and string shit.

>>74486399
Lick me in the arsch

>>74486473
>starts with classicel
>with Xenakis and Penderecki
Dude wtf

>>74492508
well if wagner's any indication it would be real fucking ponderous

>>74491259
The Golden Cockerel is one of the most important pieces of music ever written

>>74491259
>Scheherezade and spanish caprice
Worthwhile

>>74492746
You really do live in a classical bubble if you don't understand how Penderecki is often a lot more accessible to people brought up on modern music than Mozart and Bach.

>>74492508
some Norse folk?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di1F8GUvEtg


certainly not (post)christian european classical

>>74492782
It really isn't, it's a good piece but I don't know where you are getting this bullshit from.

>>74492907
you really do live in a retard bubble if you don't understand that the appeal of penderecki to pop listeners is they're rebelling against everything that makes pop music appealing. if you give pop listeners a choice 95% of them will choose mozart. I mean goddamn, his name even has the word art in it.

>>74492942
know some good norse folk?
I'm sure there will be some trad lovers present in a classical thread.
that sure is some nice fiddeling.

>>74492968
Fair enough bubble boy, you stupid kunst.

>>74492958
late Rimsky-Korsakov enormously influenced French impressionism and later modernists, namely Stravinsky. Along with Mussorgsky's operas, the Cockerel signalled a shift from German Romantic canon, paving a way for the young French and Slavic composers
Perhaps without all this French art would remain decent but mediocre, crushed by the Wagnerian wave

CRUDLBUD SAY HI PLEAS

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Does anyone have a link the stuff by the Unicorn Ensemble?

I'm specifically looking for this album but I would also like Carmina Burana and Music of the Troubadours if you have it.

>>74493164
citation? rimsky-korsakov certainly wasn't the only anti-wagnerian in town, faure didn't care for him much and satie pretty much crystallized the reaction against him. but the french modernists idolized dukas of all people so I really don't know WHAT to believe

>>74492968
I could see someone who was previously into stuff like noise rock, krautrock, ambient, etc get into modern classical easier than classical era classical

What's the best organ recording of the Art of the Fugue?

>>74493656
yeah that's all well and good, and I've got nothing against penerecki, but as much as it pains /mu/ to admit this the typical person does not find krautrock, noise rock, or ambient to be appealing music either.

>>74493723
you are correct but /mu/ wise, I think starting with penderecki, ligeti, etc is reasonable though obviously it depends on how accustomed they are to weird

>>74493578
>anti-wagnerian
Rimsky-Korsakov wasn't anti-Wagnerian at all, no one was, the Cockerel was mostly Wagnerian work, it's those fresh new rhythmic and melodic elements (often inspired by folklore) that made a difference.
>but the french modernists idolized dukas
Debussy owed so much to the Russians, he certainly absorbed some radical ideas unheard of in Western Europe, and mentioned Mussorgsky as his biggest influence, even bigger than Wagner, since it was Mussorgsky whose works showed him a way out of his Wagnerian impasse, moreover, Satie was under the same influence.

>>74493813
I dunno, I think the structure of that kind of stuff must be very difficult to parse for somebody who isn't familiar with the classical style, and there's a tendency to just focus on the sounds and maintain a very shallow understanding of what you're listening to. mozart is sorted into more easily digestible sections. but of course modern stuff is less jarring than it would have been 50 years ago.

>>74493951
satie was influenced by mussorgsky? my impression is he tried to avoid following him. when I spoke of the french modernists I meant the late style, not impressionism but the drier late period debussy style -- think tombeau de couperin or book 2 preludes

Speaking of Rimsky-Korsakov's operas is there anything better than Gergiev's performances?

>>74493970
Modern music cannot all be lumped together. Penderecki is very visceral, superficial and easy to follow where Schoenberg is pretty much nothing but dense contrapuntal motivic development and people find even his early works difficult despite their romantic idiom.

>>74494239
maybe I am in a bubble. as a classical listener I find verklarte nacht much easier listening than threnody for the victims of hiroshima

>>74494113
>satie was influenced by mussorgsky?
definitely
>the late style
Satie collaborated with the Ballets Russes for a good reason

>>74494306
can you give me a concrete example or two of this musical revolution from mussorgsky? because his more well-known works don't seem to have much to do with satie to my ear

>>74494282
I think Penderecki has the advantage for newcomers coming from popular music because his work, at least the avant garde stuff, is noisy and aggressive but has very simple underlying structures, just like rock or much present day hip hop. It also doesn't hurt that he is somewhat well known from his being featured in famous movies, just like the aforementioned Ligeti.

Schoenberg is much more traditional, his music is melodic, harmonic, contrapuntal, it concerns itself primarily with constant development, and its structures are very intricate and difficult to grasp even with multiple listens. If you're used to popular music verse chorus structure and simple riffs/beats, Schoenberg will be difficult to listen to for a lot of the same reason as Brahms or Bach.

>>74494649
that's an experimental question and I think we'd need to have some uninitiated pop listeners to verify it. I strongly suspect that someone who listens to top 40 radio would prefer verklarte nacht to threnody. they would perhaps find VK "boring" but TVH would be "annoying". Again there is the problem that part of the success of this stuff has to do with its "weirdness" rather than the pleasure of hearing it; within the group of fans who come from the pop world there is a strong selection bias for people who want their classical experience to be as far away from what they consider the "mainstream" as possible.

>>74494407
>because his more well-known works don't seem to have much to do with satie to my ear
Satie certainly was not directly influenced like Debussy, nontheless he acknowledged that the "fogginess" of their French impressionism was mainly due to the general influence of Mussorgsky. In fact, he said that he wanted to get rid of foreign influences, be it Wagner or Mussorgsky, the difference was, the traces of the latter were much harder to pick out, since they constituted impressionism's distinct traits, and this farewell to Mussorgsky promulgated the beginning of purely modernist French music.

>>74493678
Fagius or Walcha

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>>74486295
>he rates composers according to narratuves that are based on the notion of "progress"
When will this meme die? Innovation is not a quality, it's just an attribute. You have said NOTHING about his music, you've only talked about the context in which he played, as if following the fads of one's own time is a mark of genius.

t. Hate Rachmaninoff but not as much as I hate retards like you

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>>74490973
Underrated but correct opinion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CpkpUhQ24A

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/ourguy/

>>74494867
I don't know if this counts but I'm fairly new to classical and the weirdest thing i would say I've listened to outside the genre is Faust's first album. Now the only things I've heard from Schoenberg are some parts from Moses und Aron and i find them very good and easy to listen to actually, which brings me to ask why people hate him so much in the first place.

>>74487150
Holy shit its like Baroque Ives

>>74482312

I just started listening to classical. I Heard Rachmaninoff on the NPR and I loved it. I like Symphony No. 2 and his Piano Concertos. Who else should I look at?

I've always had the impression that Schoenberg's, Webern's and especially Berg's musical language and context can still be fully understood by untrained and uneducated listeners.
In the early XX century, when the Second Viennese school was still highly controversial, people would complain about how their music would convey frustration, confusion, unresolved feelings, traumatic impressions and so on, yet this was exactly what Schoenberg was trying to convey, especially later in his career, almost as if he was doing exactly what Beethoven was doing 100 years earlier, the only difference being the subjects they've chosen (of course I'm comparing only their musical philosophy, I'm not interested in comparing the qualify of their music in this post).
Basically, the listener can still share the emotional perception of the piece with Schoenberg himself, as long as he will accept the validity of these emotions and impressions (which are in fact captured masterfully).

>>74497205
baroque music can be pretty cool
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnlaCenlNHk

>not baroque but for those who didn't know this was a thing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akGtDPVRxk

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>>74486744
Biber's 1681 set of sonatas was fucking lit. Madman puts a scordatura right in the middle of a piece.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ai80pyCYg
>>74486784
Except that Biber (alongside with Westhoff and Walther) developed technical skills and styles that are important in what later was known to be the classical violin repertoire. This is completely different than just playing some random pieces behind his head (or in a position relative to any other body parts for that matter). You'd know this if you've played the violin.
>>74487150
It's polyrhythm and atonality, in the fucking 17th century.
>>74490927
It's to simulate drunk soldiers playing/singing music at battle camps the night before the battle.
>>74493379
I have the chominciamento di gioia but I can't give it to you.

>>74497222
for more extremely romantic concertos
>Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor
>Dvorak: Cello Concerto in B minor
>Tchaikovsky: Violin Concerto in D major

>>74497121
That Chorus in the beginning is haunting

I wish he wrote more choral music because his musical language sounds more evocative and colorful than on a piano

>>74497121
Classical changed dramatically at the start of the 20th century. This was mostly due to changes in society and the rise of popular music. But because Schoenberg proposed some new musical ideas for classical at around that time he is scapegoated as the guy who killed classical. I had the same reaction when I started listening to classical, Schoenberg was so notorious his reputation proceeded him and I was confused when it was actually pretty listenable.

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>>74497319
Yes his choral works are really under appreciated.

>>74497296

thanks nigg

>>74497329
He was a Romantic, WW1 and other social changes couldn't kill Wagnerian/Brahms emotionalism in him

>>74497222
Rachmaninoff was great at taking really basic, almost stupidly simple melodies and turning them into this big, sweeping and melancholy romantic sound. For something similar you might try some Scriabin piano pieces like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgIIR4cqbSA

or maybe some Tchaikovsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHAfvUFtCIY

To branch out a little, you could try a tone poem by Strauss like the the Alpine Symphony which has similar big melodies but more complex orchestration.

Just a few ideas, but the best thing you can do is frequent Youtube and start listening to your local classical radio station to increase your exposure to stuff you might not otherwise hear. Hope this is of some help to you anon

>>74497329
>This was mostly due to changes in society and the rise of popular music.
Nah, it was due to metanarratives monopolized by opportunists. I genuinely can't understand how people could have have trusted Boulez, for example, in a cult-like manner for decades, as if he was an actual authority and truly had a clue on what the path of music has to look like (in this sense the composers of the 20th century were the ultimate fascists) and what "actuality" (he was obsessed with this term) was.
Even in this thread you can read many posts of people whose ideology are still corrupted by these absolutely meaningless and arbitrary narratives, as if they had universal validity.

>>74497515
Goodness you're a cretin.

>>74497264
>tfw I've been saying this for the past 2 years on /classical/ but no one listened
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t06sWFPw-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Ftp4vVAmM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAD6lUivz10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkcLgA9jd3g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sFyywRq-SE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzw8gtqsvDM

>>74497548
Will you argue your point your stance? You are free to change my mind.

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hnng

>>74498183
redpill me on the lute harpsichord

>>74498183
>mfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxhIqMAAIQ0
>>74498314
It's some good shit. It's got the same range and capabilities as a harpsichord and the same dark and broody timbre of the lute.

>>74498183
That is some ugly cover art.

>>74498422
it's traditional for classical to have shit covers

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Too much racism in my /classical/
Too much anime in my /classical/
Too much Mozart in my /classical/

And I don't like it.

Thank you.

>>74499796
You'll be reprimanded for this.

>>74497258
>>74497329
I think many of the serialist operations, e.g. inversion, are not natural to the ear. the whole "scientific" aspect of the twelve-tone approach seems like nonsense in the context of what we now know about the nature of sound. schoenberg's tonal compositions are readily understood and appreciated, but many of his serialist ones, especially the ones that got him the most academic attention, are not.

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>>74498349
Oops forgot to attach my face.

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any good HIP recordings of vivaldi's gloria?

>>74500113
VBO

>>74499945
>I think many of the serialist operations, e.g. inversion, are not natural to the ear.
They may not appear as beautiful and stable as a major chord, the point is that Schoenberg was aware of it. The impressions you're getting are entirely deliberate, and to his own admission theory is not required to understand his music: he used to say that if one wants to listen to his music, he should forget everything he knows about serial theory and focus on the sounds. Basically, what is important is what emerges from the serial techniques, in the same way counterpoint is not the point of a Handel's Suite, but only an ends to a mean.

>>74500330
the thing is serialist music tends to sound the same to a listener. there's very little that sticks in your memory except for the traits that are deviations from the serial ideal (deliberate or unintentional tonicization, and non-serial rhythms). the bulk of the inner detail that supposedly made serialist music so organized is interpreted as noise by the uneducated listener. this is decidedly not the case with tonal counterpoint.
schoenber said a lot of stuff, and a lot of it was blustering bullshit. he looked forward to the day when he'd hear a working man, like a bricklayer or a painter, whistling one of his tone rows.

>>74500486
>there's very little that sticks in your memory except for the traits that are deviations from the serial ideal (deliberate or unintentional tonicization, and non-serial rhythms).
depends on the composer, honestly. each of the SVS sounds pretty distinct to me, especially from piece to piece

>>74500567
oh they sound distinct to me too. but what I'm suggesting is the only reasons for this are tonal artifacts and rhythm

>>74500486
>he looked forward to the day when he'd hear a working man, like a bricklayer or a painter, whistling one of his tone rows.
That's Berg.

>>74500990
"one day milkmen will whistle my tunes like puccini's" is attributed to schoenberg in several places. I can't promise you it's not apocryphal

>>74501161
I've read the same quote in The Rest is Noise, and it was attributed to Berg. When I'll get home I'll post Ross' source for that quote.

>>74501191
here's another gem. Whatever the case, I think it's really clear that Arnie was keen on whistling
"There is nothing I long for more intensely than to be taken for a better sort of Tchaikovsky. People should know my tunes and whistle them."

>>74501191
If it really was Berg, then he doesn't really have any issues. The opening bars of Wozzeck are amongst the most memorable ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuA5kN_9Qpg

>>74497102
>Had a wife and kids
no anon, he is not /ourguy/

I'm pretty sure most of us are the opposite of absent minded: OCD list keepers who notice if any performance is incorrectly labeled on the .id3 tags.

>>74492508
Bukkehorn, Tagelharpa and ye olde drums and tambourines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI0MCvpD8uI

>>74487150
Sounds like 2 different keys at once, or perhaps 3 different keys at once. Early bimodality?

>>74482783
>>74483512
FPTMIU

jazz transcends classical in every way, go buy a real book and learn to be original, fucking drones

>>74501832
>Using classical tonality and just mostly using 7ths and a bunch of altered chords
>Original

Jazz is decent but it certainly doesn't transcend classical. It doesn't even get close.

How do I into Messiaen?

>>74501832
>Learn to be original by playing other people's songs
What did he mean by this?
>>74502216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0__tgrjTkc

>>74502216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-1iJUb4-hw

>>74502216
Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du6M96E8KyE

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>>74482783

>>74490973
I prefer this recording
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TAY4cMlZ7mc
It sacrifices that driving quality, but I think the orchestra sounds much better here, and it really drives home the heart wrenching

>>74501770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YBOmgi-qSs
I think there are two. D major and E minor but I could be wrong.

>>74492355
Oh really? Different anon, I don't listen to a ton of postmodern music, but I do love Schnittke. Have you listened to his choir concerto? Truly beautiful. A lot of his late choral works were tonal, but that one is just unparalleled imo

maybe the greatest classical work of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C78HBp-Youk

>>74503667
>not Chopin Fugue in A minor
try again sweatie ;)

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Hello everyone

I'm learning music theory at the moment and I would like to know something from people that are good at theory and playing the piano: When you sight-read a new piece or improvise are you keeping in mind every single interval between each note like the rain man or something? I mean I can just about stay aware of what inversion I'm in because of the bass note and due to the muscle memory of the chord shape but I'm not fully conscious of how many semitones each note is offset from each other in weird embellished chords. Do you think of stuff like 'I'm modulating to this chord out of key because it has a common tone to prevent it from jarring.' etc?

Do you think really complicated shit on the fly as you are playing?

>>74503839
Not on the fly unless its super obvious. Analysis is good for when you've been practicing a piece for awhile and can go "oh I see, there's an extended dominant pedal leading into a deceptive cadence, I think I'll crescendo into a subito piano" or whatever. Generally, you can instinctively do these things without getting into the details but it doesn't hurt to think about it with an analytical mind if your instincts aren't saying anything.

>>74496146
No, it's Tachezi

>>74503839
it's not that hard to understand neighbor chords while you're improvising. if you know all the chords well then you instinctively know which ones you're close to.
I don't think good sight readers generally think of things in terms of notes, a great deal of it is pattern recognition

>>74503469
I listened to Schnittke a lot for a few years when I first got into classical music, then I lost interest and haven't touched it since. Perhaps it's time to go back?

I like postmodernism in music btw, it was very important to my own development as a composer.

>>74492701
kinda has a nice ring to it

>>74503839
short answer: yes, youre out of your league kiddo

>>74492701
Well maybe his librettos could use some work.

>>74492907
> Penderecki is often a lot more accessible
Not the early one

>>74503839
>When you sight-read a new piece or improvise are you keeping in mind every single interval between each note like the rain man or something?
No, after years of sight reading you rely completely on muscle memory. Basically you can sight read complex pieces while being scatterbrained, or while reading a book (Liszt used to learn pieces this way, and taught so to all of his students). At some point you'll be able to glance at a piano score and "feel" how it will sound and what the fingering will look like you. It's all about experience.

>'I'm modulating to this chord out of key because it has a common tone to prevent it from jarring.' etc?
This is not "complicated shit". Theoric notions like this become natural and istinctive the more you study and practice them.
As a teenager after 2 years of ear training and conservatory courses, understanding harmonies and contrapunctual textures was effortless. Again, there is nothing complex about thinking about harmonies, chords and ratios, if you study them enough you'll just be able to immediatly link them to a comprehensive information, instead of having to name them. It's like learning metrics for poetry: at first it will be frustrating, but when you get good at it writing a sonnet will be an afterthought, you won't even have to think about it.

It's a shame all our favorite composers are in hell for composing music with instruments. Too bad they couldn't compose something halal like https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53ujy7

>>74505998
Voice is an instrument, silly muslims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty9G0asmZ_k

>>74505998
Islamic prescriptions on music are based on the fact that musicians in Monammed's times were mostly flutists and percussionists playing at parties and in taverns for drunk people. Music had that connotation. Given how much muslims have loved geometry in Art, I would say that Baroque music is okay.

>>74505998
When is the Islam meme going to die and we start reasserting the superiority of western culture and art?

>>74506079
>we
You clearly can't

>>74506114
???

death

>>74507606
transfiguration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D5Up1aYJJs

Answer this /classical/

What is Harmony?

>>74508848
harmony is the consonance and dissonance between tones in a piece, and the structure that this creates

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN8dVHgnZYg

>>74508986
What are the criterias used to evaluate harmony?

>>74509964
>criterias

>>74506079
>Islam
>meme

Spotted the pleb

>>74506020
Everything is an instrument you fucking retard, you know what he meant.

>>74510570
>Everything is an instrument
Fuck off Cage

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https://youtu.be/JPEDv71nEVs
>mfw 4:11

post god-tier basso continuo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D-y2kJU0lg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Us-8qkYE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqksy-991sI

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>>74510962
>Telemann
Good
>Telemann
GREAT
>Handel
>mfw

Shostakovich
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xOBe4vNFiA

/biber/ reporting in

https://youtu.be/-MSDXh68u_c

Check out this fucking Dies Irae you pieces of shit

>>74491259
Scheherazade is one of my favourites

Pisendel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh6mqfrVFaY

>>74511521
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ZcDvoxCpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TARZYV9PEbc

>>74496484
>fads
>modernity is a "fad"
oh, seems like you're the fool here

>>74490973
>anyone being better than bach.
opinion discarded.
btw, kys

>>74503757
>not Bach's St. Matthews Passion
try again sweetie ;)

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>>74511866
>fell for Mendelssohn's Jewish shills
What a good goy you are.

>>74511934
>m-muh-muhndelssohn squeeled the pleb
>g-good g-g-goy squeeled the pleb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_MrRk2LlZE

>>74511991
>WOW I LOVE COCKS LET ME SUCK THEM MORE I'M A FAGGOT

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwwCWeRjZak

>>74499775
>said the normie

>>74503839
>When you sight-read a new piece or improvise are you keeping in mind every single interval between each note like the rain man or something?
Intervals are such a basic element of music that it should be automatic. You will simply see an octave or 10th on the page and play it without having to think.

>Do you think of stuff like 'I'm modulating to this chord out of key because it has a common tone to prevent it from jarring.' etc?
When modulating (if one is improvising) you aren't going to think anything so long and cumbersome. You will modulate in ways that you have already practiced. You will simple be doing something you already know how to do.
Also your question doesn't quite make sense. You don't modulate to a chord, you modulate to a key and common tones can be but are not usually the primary reason for using none diatonic chords.

>Do you think really complicated shit on the fly as you are playing?
For anything anyone has to do that is fast and made up as you go the answer is no. Fighters don't think about fighting when they compete, almost every move in bullet chess is made near automatically, and a jazz improviser has such a mastery of the mechanics of the music and their instrument that their mental faculties can be directed towards interacting with the other musicians.

>Oscar Peterson
Muh nigga.

>>74503839
it became second-nature fairly quickly

I've been learning the piano for almost two years and I can't seem to get any improvement. Can't even know which note is which in a sheet just from looking, for fucks sake. Am I actually mentaly ill, or stupid? I don't wanna give up but this wouldn't be the first time my brain is literally unnable to grasp a simple concept.

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>>74511174
hey fuck you buddy handel's pretty gud

[spoiler]I like Telemann more though[/spoiler]

>>74511202
damn those false harmonics are clean as heck

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Reminder the best modern Ring is the 1991 live recording with Baremboim and that it makes Solti's recording completely obsolete.

>>74513763
Not bad, prefer Janowski's 1st though.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8a1wfYBEGc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBJwxUK402k

>>74514112
>worst girl
>best instrument
delete this

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>>74514520
Wrong on both counts wow.

>>74514689
remilia fag please leave

if you are going to post anime at least post music too

>>74514883
>tfw found an anime album on Naxos while searching for Ravel's complete piano works
>tfw can't find it again

>>74514883
But I did?

>>74513763
just a tad too slow for me.

also Bayreuth acoustic is pretty shit for the Ring. fairly good singers all around, though - and aside from tempi, Barenboim does have some interesting ideas. i would listen to him over Solti most days, but then again I find the Solti recording to be a giant headache in general.

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Ok, so I love classical, but for some reason have never gotten into opera or choral works and just stuck to instrumental pieces. But there's this one song but Trans Siberian Orchestra (yes, yes, I know, not actually classical, they're a modern bastardization) called Mephistopheles' Return.

In it, there's this part where the choir sings. One part sings one line, another part sings another line on top, and they keep adding different parts of the choir singing different lines on top of each other until it sounds like the Voice of the entire Heavenly Host, and they are all singing of great and terrible things with the tempo of Hell.

Tell me there are operas or choral works out there that do this, /classical/. I want to hear the Voice of Heaven again, but without modernity clouding the glory. I know Dies Irae, but that's about it.

Too many classical pieces are dull, uncreative shit. Please recommend me only the best. Here's a hint.
>Igor Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring
>Alexander Scriabin's Prometheus
>Elliott Carter's String Quartet No.2
>Krzysztof Penderecki's Cello Concerto No. 1

>>74516062
since you can't read and analyze the older pieces and rely solely on what sounds "complicated" and "creative" to your untrained ear, i heartily recommend most serial composers

>>74515344
it's an unspoken rule that every opera must do that at some point
try any of the Mozart operas and the scenes you want are probably at the end of an act or labeled trio, quartet, etc

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>>74516062
>Igor Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring
lol

>>74516062
those are indeed very good hints for what constitutes dull, uncreative compositions anon :^)

Graun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT5hSXHgsTU

>>74516062
>it's an "anon comes into /classical/ expecting to bait other anons into giving him recs but instead gets BTFO by everyone" episode

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>>74516560
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec18V8pd-sg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4PLjAEP4NE

>>74515232
Meh, I like my Ring slow.
And Wagner did say the thing conductors should be most worried about with his music was figuring out his intended tempi, and that when he did it his Rheingold clocked at 2h30m. Barenboim is really close to that, his Rheingold is 2h28m. Also love the Bayreuth acoustics, wouldn't call it shit at all, again using the "it was how Wagner wanted" argument, but I genuinely like it.

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>>74516759
>And Wagner did say the thing conductors should be most worried about with his music was figuring out his intended tempi
yes, and he was fairly dissatisfied with the tempi for the premiere, and that was even after he had sped them up quite a bit. there's pretty explicit documentation regarding Wagner's intentions for the Ring's speed (something like 208 remarks about Hans Richter being too slow), and they are at odds with most recorded performances. Hans Richter timed in at approximately 14'30, by the way - and that's faster than most modern versions.

Bohm (67) 13:33
Boulez (81) 13:44
Keilberth (52) 13:53
Janowski (83) 14:02
Krauss (53) 14:35
Solti (65) 14:37
Furtwangler (53) 14:47
Keilberth (55) 14:51
Karajan (70) 14:59
Barenboim (94) 15:31
Goodall (75) 16:51

"If you were not all such tedious fellows, Das Rheingold would be finished within two hours." (Wagner to Hans Richter, 1876)

>his Rheingold clocked at 2h30m
citation? i've never come across this figure. Hans Richter performed it in 2'31 (tedious, according to Wagner) and of the performances of Rheingold after Richard's death, Heinz Tietjen (who had close ties to the Wagner family and was influenced directly by Cosima) performed it in 2'17, and Siegfried Wagner did it in 2'21. Siegfried's tempi seem to be the general preference amongst the old Bayreuth conductors (Balling, 2'21 in 1909; Beidler, 2'23 in 1904; von Hoesslin, 2'22 in 1927, etc.)

>Also love the Bayreuth acoustics, wouldn't call it shit at all, again using the "it was how Wagner wanted" argument, but I genuinely like it.
they're better with the pit shield off, but in general the sound is much too cramped. the "how Wagner wanted it" argument doesn't really work here either since the Ring wasn't composed with the acoustics of Bayreuth in mind, only Parsifal was. and Bayreuth went through acoustic changes after his death anyway

>>74516137
Thanks for the assumptions, really gets the noggin joggin. But your statement isn't the only thing that gets my noggin joggin; instantly resolving the frightening dissonance of the 4th really gets my cognitive gears turning. Not to mention triads played at a harmonic rhythm of quarter notes in the progression of vi iv6 I6/4 V I with an occasional vii° in first inversion because of that devilish tritone dissonance with a instant resolution to the I chord here and there. I also love trills, mmm, trills.

What should I do if I want to learn piano by my own

>>74517141
My mistake. 2h30m was the time under which a conductor instructed by Wagner did Rheingold. I assumed since someone instructed by him did it in 2h30m, and in that same comment Wagner complained of someome else who did in 3 hours, that 2:30 was ideal while 3:00 was too slow. Going by what you said I guess the conducter closest to that from the too of my head would be Keilberth. He did Rheingold in 2h20m.

>>74517407
get a piano book and pray

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schnittke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1TcToU2bO8

>>74517747
there's a lot of pretty good Rheingolds, honestly. i'm not [too] anal about timings personally, but i almost always prefer it on the faster side. nothing wrong with preferring it slower, though

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What are /classical/'s thoughts on Brahms Violin Sonatas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpEa6U2ccI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0eIj_LUv8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfF2tznp0xs

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjGkxTu5V-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ui598mTAAs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3DTi9DsQsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsykCt9PEjk

>>74513745
Get a proper teacher

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDyHkja0SxE

>>74519187
bassoon is underrated

>>74520488
god i love the faggot

>>74519187
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uUKrfX9cQUQ
Saint-Saens wrote a gorgeous sonata

>>74520889
I love the album cover

Considered to be one of his finer, if not finest., works: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNocKxKd8-I
Another classic of his: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS91p-vmSf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzJtRcu3oLI
My personal favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdLuvGsjwlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pybwzSqKHk4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzjYQuDPi9Q

What is some good classical to trip on lsd to? It would seem like more ethereal and chromatic and even impressionistic music would work best, like Debussy's La Mer or Strauss' tone poems, especially Death and Transfiguration; spaced out and pretty, punctuated by hugely emotional and rich moments. Is this correct, or would more technical and straightforward things like Bach's organ work be as good? Any recommendations welcome

>>74521636
what music is usually good on LSD

>>74521652
I'm hardly the best person to ask. The only time I tripped, my friend put on some trap remix type music. Not what I listen to, put what I enjoyed was that I was too preoccupied to realize music had started, and only noticed it when I started dancing out of nowhere when "the bass dropped". Music on lsd kind of comes up from inside you, at least thats the way it is with groovier stuff. Apparently it also just allows you to hear layers in a clearer, different way. And more ambient stuff is supposed to be cool too. I'm sure there's more than one right answer, I was just hoping for some recommendations and clarity on whether or not highly climactic and rich music that I enjoy is brilliant on lsd or if something more subdued and spacey and more open to interpretation is better.

Rachmaninoff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDtLscGnn8

>>74521636
Gerard Grisey, Tristan Murail, Rautavaara.

For maximum beauty you could try Renaissance vocal music like Lassus, Palestrina, Victoria, Josquin or Taverner

>>74522460
Love Taverner's funeral canticle, what else would you recommend by him

>>74522538
God I'm stupid, just realized my mistake. Meant Tavener of course

>>74522932
Fuck Tavener. Taverner is where its at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kwsbzWHoiw

>>74522932
>>74523271
>Tavener
>Taverner
who thought this was a good idea
isn't one of them a conductor
help

>>74523271
I stand by my liking the Funeral Canticle, but yes Taverner is greater

>>74523449
Taverner is 1500s renaissance composer
Tavener is a modern composer - he's eh

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>>74523531
oh wait I was thinking of the Taverner consort

>>74513745
are you playing simple stuff? did you skip past playing basic introductory books because they're too "easy"? it is important to play stuff that you easily understand (I mean like three blind mice levels of simple) it is also important to sing what you are playing in order to develop a good cantabile. even singing note names or solfege if you have a hard time associating tones with sheet music. it is also of utmost importance to practice scales. also, follow a method book if you're not already. this will help keep you grounded until you find a teacher

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>go on jewtube video of lieder with sheet music
>autists sperging out about the sheet being in the wrong key
Why are perfect pitch people such autistic faggots? If you can hear what key the music is playing, just transpose the sheet music in your mind. Or is that too hard for them, are their minds incapable of abstracting exact pitches and thinking in contours instead? Perhaps perfect pitch is a disorder more than an ability, I'll bet it's positively correlated with autism.

>>74524619
Perfect pitch fags on Youtube are often insufferable because it's the only type of discussion they can bring to the table.

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I made a chart :)
Immerseel's beethoven cycle, Nelson's Shostakovich recordings and gardiner's schumann and brahms cycles would almost certainly be there if i had listened to them.

>>74524767
What was your manual input to "it actually has the album cover and title for me" ratio? I don't put classical on my chart because that's a pain in the ass.
>gardiner's schumann
I prefer the revised version of the 4th but to each their own.

>>74524843
it's a pain in the ass, you have to cycle through some variation on the name, but i had to get maybe 10 albums myself.

I actually compared bernstein's 4th to gardiner's 4th last night. I like gardiner much better but I don't know if they were the revised version or not. Lovely symphony

>>74524948
Apparently Gardiner actually recorded both versions which I wasn't aware of. I've only heard the original.
I agree, I think it's a fascinating puzzle of a symphony that, despite its flaws, perhaps doesn't get enough credit.

>>74525030
I meant to ask, which recording do you prefer?

>>74501949 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrm-rPSCIBw

maybe if we're talking about some of the most rudementary jazz maybe if you weren't so rooted in these ideas of music being correct you wouldn't be lurking here and might have an opinion worth two shits?

>>74502303
the same jazz song could be played in 10 different performances and each could sound nothing like the other

>>74525045
Honestly, its one of those symphonies where no recording scratches my itch just right. I think Bernstein is alright, he takes the thick texture of the first theme and revels in it, but the balance in the lighter sections (namely the cello/oboe duet) is kinda ehhh. Paray's has this annoying buzzing sound in the background, even though the other symphonies are fine, but it's certainly angry enough. I think Sawallisch is overall great but the boominess kinda rubs me wrong, probably my favorite though. Klemperer's is too slow for me.

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Haitink is my favorite in Schumann, can't say I like him in much of his other conducting exploits but he really opened my ears to those symphonies.

>>74525225
Haven't heard this one yet. I would give it a listen right now but it's almost 5 am. Thanks though

>>74513745
https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4572774/Music_Theory_For_Dummies

http://gmajormusictheory.org/Freebies/freebies.html

every night I sit in front of the piano and I improvise for hours. I usually transcribe a few bars at a time, and I'm sure at the point where I could easily transcribe an entire short piece, like a Nocturne or a Prelude.
The problem is that I still do not have the knowledge necessary to organize the musical material I transcribe: basically I truly don't know how to stick to a form, since when my improvisations are all development.
Now, is there any easy form I could stick to. For example I'd like to write a nocturne: is there any "fixed" structure I could practice on so that at the end of it the composition will make sense?
I'm sure that eventually, once I'll have studied theory and harmony enough, I won't need any such thing, but at the moment the struggle is real. Also I should notice that I'm doing this for leisure, I'm not trying to use any shortcut.

>>74513745
>Can't even know which note is which in a sheet just from looking, for fucks sake.
Do solfege, you idiot. Dumb 6 years old can learn how to do it, I assure you that you can't possibly be that stupid.

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>>74513746
>[spoiler]I like Telemann more though[/spoiler]

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>>74516062

petzhack

fuck mozart
bach is based

probably the most grand example of counterpoint ever
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiX3z_fOR5k

>>74528342
>mozart
>most grand anything
>counterpoint
>no bach

fuck off man

>>74521636
tripped acid yesterday but didn't listen to that much classical bc my friends aren't that into it. Listened to a bit ravel and debussy because it seemed like the safest choice, but that was during come-up so wasnt that crazy.

the coolest thing about music on lsd is how well you can identify the different layers/melodies, so i would listen to some heavily contrapuntal music. you could also try some more modern/ambient/dissonant stuff for stronger hallucinations but that might get spooky

>>74528162
>>74528480
And here we see some more further proof of mozart's underrating

>>74528480
no
as a contrapuntist he was at least on the level of Bach, fortunately he wasn't socially handicapped and didn't play fugues all the time

>>74525010
O que?

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>>74520488
>>74520627
Based Sergio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3b38Bf9V5E

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>>74525225
Goodness, this is a revelation! Much better than the flat interpretations Karajan made of these symphonies. Thanks, anon.

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>>74526676
>be Telemann
>be based
>be self-taught
>be infusing folk dance themes into classical compositions before it was cool
>got to where he is in the royal court with pure talent and willpower, unlike that rich faggot Handel
>still getting disrespected centuries later by edgy teenage dilettantes
>mfw

>>74491259
Antar Symphony is pretty incredible.

>>74525122
>youtube video isn't a jazz piece supporting his argument
fail.

Any pieces similar to the middle section of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdtLuyWuPDs

>>74530614
>be extremely boring in everything he does despite all that

>>74530765
>personal opinion
t. dilettante

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktv3-1JTspc

Just saw this last night. It had a pretty dumb ending but the music and cinema were great.

Does anyone else hear a huge amount of Tchaikovsky prefigured in Berlioz?

Scarlatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccwugFx0Kk

>>74526373
come onnn

>>74530901
Yeah they both are crap and melodramatic

>>74530908
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0H-EAkLr8I

What are the best classical box sets that you know of? I think that the
dg legendary recordings,
the decca legends,
the rca living stereo collections seem pretty amazing.
Also the rubinstein collection,
glenn gould original jacket collection,
horowitz original jacket collection.
I also have my eye on the fricsay complete recordings.
The dg complete herbert von karajan collection is incredible.
There's also those brilliant classics collections for every major classical figure.
Then there's that franklin mint collection.
The DG original masters is pretty interesting
There's a big collection of stravinsky performing his own work, which seems essential.

Several of these I am just listing because they look interesting, but there's several in here that I actually have which I listen to a lot.

>>74531653
>brilliant classics

Their Frescobaldi box is very good.

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>>74531653

>>74531653
westminster legacy

>>74491259
>implying Bumblebee aint important

I want to die

>>74532599
eh, personally I'm in no hurry to get to hell. would be rad if I had never existed in the first place tho

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>>74531653
The Stravinsky, as it is the composer himself, is I guess essential, just not very good, the orchestras aren't really up to his idiom, better versions abound. Some of the brilliant classics for people like Vivaldi and Handel really do make it all sound the same with very little character.

The Sony/Boulez boxes are all great, the EMI Icons sets are a good intro to artists, Russian Legends and Russian Historical Arcives on Brilliant sound a bit shitty but are fascinating stuff and almost everything by DHM >>74531760

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>>74530614
i mean that [spoiler][/spoiler] dude, not Telemann

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>>74532824

>>74510962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezUirMCPWgA

starts at 11:43

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>>74510962
>>74533614
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JswIpP7D3rU

>>74510962
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsFCIU5xw4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjUm70zlvVE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41tt7MXSMYg

Is this piece good?