Why is punk so cucked?

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Because YOU JUST GOT KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT.

https://youtu.be/yy-SiZSlmhI

>>74414831
Deliberate campaigns to poison youth culture

>>74414831
who?

>>74414831
>retards like OP seriously believe that nazist symbols somehow make them look truly anti-establishment
>they also believe that nazism was not a pro-establishment movement par excellence
ughhh I need to vomit

>being against fascism for freedom is being"cucked"
Punk always fucked nazis.
There are too many underage retards here.

This is literally the only good political song to come out over the past two years, and that's only because YG made it a funky club banger with diss track type lyrics as opposed to some corny, overly dramatic horseshit.
https://youtu.be/WkZ5e94QnWk

the best punk doesn't even talk about politics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rktLCGpQ3RA

>>74414995
u would call joey ramone a nazi

I don't know which one is more pathetic; being an alt-rightists or being the one thinking that alt-right needs to be smashed.

most of that shit is pure aesthetics, she likely doesn't do much more than smoke weed and post a lot (like everyone else).

Nowadays I dont think many of the punks are very politically literate. They occupy a soft liberal spot more than anything else, although I have met some actual leftists and whatnot.

You have to remember that these kids have nothing real to rebel against (like sexual norms or something), so instead that have to occupy increasingly bizarre hills to die on, like straight edge or rape-culture witch hunts, stuff like that.

Idk, i got bored of it after 3-4 years of being engaged. I have the records I like and that's all that counts for me now

>>74415037
straight edge is bizarre?

>>74415080
It is when they won't shut up about it.

>>74415037
Same, but with RAC records instead.

I do like some Vegan Reich, though. Man, shit was extreme even by vegan standards.

>>74415028
I also wouldn't call Joey Ramone a punk

>>74415080
Bizarre in the sense that it's evolved into something completely perverted from the original intent, which was certainly not to start some sort of safe gang for suburban kids

>>74415115
why?

>>74414831
Because the members of the organised left-wing groups who are in positions of power - mostly members of the Democratic party in America - have attempted a shift such that the main enemy to them becomes the "alt-right," a relatively small and (at least previously) fringe group of people, as opposed to the majority and wider reaching right-wing of the United States so that they could have an easier target to go against as the "alt-right" is the big bad boogeyman to all on the left-wing of the spectrum and many on the right and as such it raised their chances of getting Hillary elected, and to do this they have pushed a media narrative to elevate the status of the "alt-right" in the eyes of the public to the point where if you watch American media you can see that the "us vs. them" narrative of the left-wing media is "the rightminded us vs. the nutty alt-right," a mindset that has spread to much of the public at large. This of course backfired when enough people thought Hillary was still worse than the boogeyman that the "alt-right" guy actually became president, but they're still beating that drum anyway because it's too late now.

>>74415115
Oof

literally read more about punk you idiot
this is nothing new, punk's always been on the left supporting the marginal

>>74415036
The only sensible position is to realise the alt-right doesn't actually exist

>>74415152
not a scholar but all the shows in the 70s and 80s I've seen pictures of were all white people

>>74415115
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>74414945
>Nazist
Also, I don't think you understand Jewish power in the Weimar republic. Nazis fucked the foreign controlled banks and media.
>>74414995
>Muh freedom
Look what it gets you. 7 year old trannies on TV.
>>74415025
The best punk is stylized Touhou songs.
>>74415152
Can I figuratively read about it instead? I have a backlog of shit I need to literally read.

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>>74415132
>Democrats are left wing
>Liberals are left wing
>Hillary is left wing

>>74415132
+1 I guess

>>74415132
>the american thinks left and right only exist in the us

>>74415196
bump for touhou punk rock

>>74415036
Neither. Thinking the alt-right has influence is what's retarded. You can't run a campaign that explicitly encourages racism and or separatism. Yea, DJT did it in different ways, but 2020 will result amd show how effective it was

>>74415200
Yeah, in the global sense Republicans here are right and Dems are a little left of them. Trump even is probably not as right leaning as the average GOP politician.

>>74415200
>>74415207
I'm talking about the American mainstream. Of course there are complex and different political systems in other countries and outside of the mainstream but those are basically irrelevant to the discussion of the alt-right.

>>74415236
>run a campaign
>DJT
>2020 result
the american keep on failing to understand the rest of the world

>>74415247
I need some citations on that one

>>74414995

no

>>74415218
Heres a playlist
https://youtube.com/watch?list=PLkNtkSxmkjGyXImVhVeqV-VswKlrry6Yu&params=OAFIAVgB&v=nOqy_Py0sMs&mode=NORMAL

>>74415302
Which part? I'd say for the most part Dems want war just the same as the GOP which isn't exactly hippy dippy lefty policy.

>>74414831

Just looking at this pic you can tell why Punk is fucking dead.Punk now aligns itself with the corporate elite and is no way about freedom.

>>74415383
This

OP's screencap embodies shit like today's Green Day

>>74414831
>Punk is cucked

What does that even mean?

>>74414831
I hate the fact that I used to like those Anti-f(l)ag retards in middle school

>>74416787
They're subservient to the interests of thugs who want the PD dismantled.

Here is a punk song, the one up there saying "goodnight alt-right" wasn't punk rock the guy was rapping or some shit.
I mean genre is subjective, but shit,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA7IH2ZRKU8

>it's a Yuros start screaming and throwing their shit because Americans discussing American politics on an American anime porn site use American definitions of words episode
>>74415236
If you're implying Trump won't win again in 2020 you're insane, especially since the left is grooming absurdly bad candidates like Zuckerberg, Waters, and Chelsea Clinton, proving they haven't learned from their mistakes

>>74415200
if youre gonna zizek-post you need to do more than green text faggot

>ps
>had zizek as seminar prof at uni
>said write a paper dont write a paper whatever get an A
>thank you slavoj you saved my ass

>>74414995

This guy only gets the chorus of nazi punks fuck off and not the actual song.

>>74414831

(1/2)

have been thinking abt this for a while, but i think it has to do with the fact that part of the punk aesthetic is about being subversive and how that plays into the generally leftist politics of punk nowadays. punk, apart from simply being subversive, has always been associated with politics and primarily leftist politics more specifically. back in the 70s and 80s leftist politics and specifically the values leftist punk community praised were in line with subversive leftism. Think of DK song "Kill the Poor" or Reagan Youth's catalogue where they inhabit the hateful voices of conservative politicians, KKK members etc. and do so to satirize and make those people look ridiculous. That like political punk today was spreading anti-racist, leftist messages but was doing so in a subversive way. when youre saying that punk is cucked i feel like you're referring to its history of subversion and how that runs into mainstream leftist politics nowadays, which generally lean towards avoiding subversion and instead creating and policing (for lack of a better word) PC environments. for ppl on the left who are big into identity politics and want to create a world that is more accepting, equitable, etc. there's not a real way to be truly subversive because their beliefs have been adopted by mainstream public culture eg. being anti-racist, being pro lgbt, etc. There are ways to go about supporting those beliefs in a subversive way eg. the DK and Reagan Youth stuff i mentioned but doing that would generally be out of fashion for identity politics-based leftists who are very concerned about creating a community by making sure language that could alienate or upset community members is avoided. so a white person who is vehemently anti-racist saying "we're gonna purge the heathens" satirically to make a point about racism would go against that part of the mission and that person would be thrown out of the subculture / leftist punk community, etc. CONTINUED

>>74415115
Fucking kill yourself.

>>74415200
They are.

>>74415236
Trump is going to butt fuck the democrats in 2020.

>>74417148
lmao how much they paying you?

>>74417162
fuck off, vlad

>>74417109
>that person would be thrown out of the subculture / leftist punk community, etc
thats the essence of punk culture: being thrown out, so alls good

Darby Crash was a right wing punk.

>>74417180
Weak.

>>74414831
There's nothing more punk than standing #WithHer til the day you die.

>>74417228
Sad.

(2/3)
However! There are ways to still be subversive as a punk. While anti-racism, being pro-lgbt is a part of the dominant culture nowadays, those values are not reflected by the material culture (as in, even if the culture accepts those values, we don't live in an anti-racist, equitable society) In fact, the way identity politics has been accepted by the mainstream is something that identity politics leftists should be critiquing more and something that more class-focused materialist leftists (eg. organized socialists) do critique all the time. Right now the dominant culture is still decided by elites (media elites in particular) but their adoption of anti-racist politics into the mainstream, while good IMO, is anything but pure. In many ways, mainstream, media-based identity politics is used as a way to distract leftists or anyone concerned with having a more equitable society from the way material factors - where people live and the services available there, income, who gets a say in politics - keep that society from manifesting. the media class isn't interested in that world actually happening because they benefit from it so much already. SO, leftist punk that critiques the way elites adopt and exploit anti-racist rhetoric for example could be seen as subversive in its message alone because that message is vehemently opposed and silenced by those in power unlike the more easy to stomach message of (we should be less racist). being less racist is good but that only goes so far. Thats the crossroads leftist politics is at in america right now. If a punk band did a song about how Hillary Clinton owned slaves and how she exploits anti-racist rhetoric, it would piss off a lot of identity politics liberals (the real establishment) and leftist currently tricked by them but a huge part of the left, (socialists or labor and housing organizers) who happened to hear the song, even if it was by a white band (DK for example if they were around today) would support it.

Punk is about adopting an identity that is counter to mainstream culture, and because of that there's some movement to the right in some circles of hardcore.

In the 80 (for example), when a disenchanted 15 year old looked around at his peer group, he found people embracing materialism and Reganism and all that shit, so it makes sense that he skewed left to position himself in opposition to those people.

When 15 year olds look around at their peers today, they see a bunch of "woke" assholes who fap to Teen Vogue, so it's not surprising that some of them lean anti-SJW in attempt to position themselves in opposition to this mainstream woke culture of their peers.

>>74414866
/thread

>>74417278
This is smart, except "identity politics liberals" aren't mainstream Hillary liberals, they are the people who would love to see Hilary called out

>>74415037
Good post

>>74415037
>so instead that have to occupy increasingly bizarre hills to die on, like straight edge or rape-culture witch hunts, stuff like that.

I like the way you phrased that thought.

>>74417311
opposite of the truth

>>74415028
I wouldn't

(3/3) sorry to extend continuation. but I want to address a few more things. To people who aren't involved in leftist politics, it could easily seem like pure identity-politics, especially by those with lots of money and power already (eg. an ivy-league graduate who writes think-pieces for vice about how yoga is cultural appropriation) is the only force in leftist thought nowadays. There are huge segments of the left that find this kind of meaningless identity politics ridiculous and who generally focus on organizing as opposed to media-based culture policing. Almost everyone ive come across who does socialist, labor, or housing organizing doesn't value that kind of culture policing very much and people who are in what many would think are the most id-pol based groups eg. black lives matter are really more focused on material change and organizing than culture. i'm sure lots of BLM folks probably wouldn't love a white band that writes stuff like DK did but i also don't think they'd bother to try to destroy that persons career. That really is, as far as I've seen, what liberal media identity politics folks and 16 year old tumblr weirdos do - the kinds of people either so corrupted by self interest or too young and impressionable to have a worldly grasp of their politics. so yeah, in my experience the left when encountered outside of a college classroom, Vox, or tumblr -the real active left (people who actually do stuff) are generally pretty welcoming, forgiving, accepting, etc. To some who say that the right-wing can be punk and also be subversive because they'd be going against mainstream anti-racist, pro-lgbt culture: the alt-right can't be subversive re: those points because the material reality of the world and our country is racist, anti-lgbt (as in while those groups are accepted by the dominant culture, they get super fucked over in reality so trying to move the culture back to fucking them over would be subversive in a very superficial sense

>>74415236
>>74417002
>>74417162
>>74417180
>People acting like they're wizards that can accurately predict what the 2020 political landscape will look like
Yeah no. Think back to how radically different the state of American (and global) politics was back in 2012, 2008, 2004 etc. Find me one person on earth who was predicting anything remotely similar to the 2016 election happening back in 2012 (or the 2008 election back in 2004). If there is one person who claims to have seen all of this shit coming they're either lying or then it was pure dumb luck. Who the fuck honestly knows where we'll be in 2020?

>>74417109
>>74417278
>>74417440
RAC skinheads are 10 times more subversive than your average student communist / anarchist.

>>74417422

No. Identity-politics liberals are "woke" millennial liberals who are totally #withher but still find her whiteness to be problematic and would like her more if she was a disabled indigenous undocumented non-binary candidate.

>>74417469
>birds
>fuck you

>>74417450
fuck you vlad is honest healthy criticism bb

>>74417440
continuing a bit.

re: liberal vs. left identity politics. there are people who are commies, socialists, anarchists who would hate white bands that do satirical and aggressive leftism, but as far as i've seen, they're really the minority in organized leftist groups and there is a big contingent of the left who tends to think something like language-policing (the type where people seek to end a well-meaning person's career because they went about their message the wrong way) is totally unproductive. A really subversive leftist group would probably run into trouble with some folks if they were white, straight, etc. but theres still a big audience for it. they probably wouldn't run into any trouble if they were non-white or lgbt though, which is maybe an unfortunate element of the political climate but idk, would be cool to see a really subversive black punk group calling out liberals in an offensive / aggressive way.

>>74417440
> To some who say that the right-wing can be punk and also be subversive because they'd be going against mainstream anti-racist, pro-lgbt culture: the alt-right can't be subversive re: those points because the material reality of the world and our country is racist, anti-lgbt (as in while those groups are accepted by the dominant culture, they get super fucked over in reality so trying to move the culture back to fucking them over would be subversive in a very superficial sense

You're falling into the same trap as people who obsess over demographic "privilege": assuming that people's lived experience is exclusively determined by macro-reality, and ignoring the crucial role of micro-reality. It ABSOLUTELY is subversive for a kid at a small liberal arts college to be a right-leaning anti-SJW person, even if mainstream macro- reality reflects their views. Context matters, and is often much more important than global, macro-forces.

You sound like the idiots who literally think that a white guy living on food stamps in a trailer park has a greater amount of social "privilege" than an Ivy-league educated black female lawyer.

>>74414866
Dubs don't lie

>>74417468

subversive but in what sense? subversive means
"seeking or intended to subvert an established system or institution." they're subversive in the way that they subvert dominant cultural beliefs but in doing so they seek to maintain in many ways the status-quo in a material sense. leftist politics seeks to subvert the material status-quo and can still subvert mainstream culture, even though some of its beliefs have become a part of it (bastardized versions IMO). so yeah, i think material subversion is more subversive but on that point, subversion doesn't neccessarily have to be a value of punk music. its just one of its chosen features - its not neccessarily the best. a band like Fugazi is a great punk group and they're not very culturally subversive, only materially. They argue their leftist politics in a pretty straightforward, inoffensive, un-abrasive but still a cathartic and satisfying way. they didn't feel the need to offend or shock people. you can be a good punk without doing the latter.

>>74417469
involved in left activism and have never heard that argument

>>74417567

i tried to do a better job at answering that in my latest post.

although, I would say the ivy-leaguer is more privileged in ways that matter more for that persons life. The leftists I like / am talking about would push back against the kind of narrative that argues that economic or class privilege doesn't matter. those are the ppl who i think are pushing liberal / status-quo narratives that actually go against their ideals of uplifting non-whites. Class and economics needs to enter into leftist identity politics.

>>74417656

"those are people who i think..." is referring to the person who would ignore class and only focus on race, gender identity etc. my wording was a bit confusing. to be clear, all of them need to be focused on which is what most leftists ive met do. the idea that we need to ignore class and material factors and only focus on race, gender identity, etc. is a liberal narrative through and through

>>74417656

But class and economics don't allow people to indulge in liberal guilt, because too many poor people are white. It makes white people feel like virtuous liberals to advocate for POC, it makes men feel like virtuous liberals to advocate for women, it makes straights feel like virtuous liberals to advocate for LGBTQ people. Advocating for class doesn't give that dopamine rush.

Remember how quickly millennials turned on Bernie when he implied that race/gender based identity politics wasn't the right strategy, and that we should focus on class.

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>>74417468
>>74417567

>>74417734

yeah exactly. this whole impulse is what marks liberals from leftists. being on the left should mean being comfortable with being self-critical, acting and creating change in service of a greater goal instead of supporting something because it allows you keep doing what you're doing and feel less bad about it.

>>74417450
You gotta learn to read between the lines maaaaaaan