>Pop music is for children and idiots.

PC Music is brainlet filter

>proceeds to make slightly distorted pop music

>SUCK DADDY

'pop' music is just a label ascribed to a certain sound that sells well because the music industry wants to sell more.

quincy jones, phil spector and bruce springsteen made ostensibly 'pop' music, but it's fucking awesome and fun so who cares?

>>74367193
>while wearing ripped jeans

>>74367193
How is that pop music?

Pop music is a product aimed at teens and idiots who have the most disposable cash.
Its forgettable and disposable.
Poptamists are a cancer that have embraced mediocrity.
It werent 5 to 7 years ago black eyed peas were the top guys and now they are nowhere.
Pop music as no depth or staying power.
Ask yourself why radiohead still has a strong and loyal fanbase that cares about their new music but no one gives a shit about christina agularia beyond maybe a few aging fags

>>74367193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuO3wwLuF0w

real top 40 material.


I was born in this town
Live here my whole life
Probably come to die in this town
Live here my whole life
Never anything to do in this town
Live here my whole life
Never anything to do in this town
Live here my whole life
Probably learn to die in this town
Live here my whole life
Nothing to do, sit around at home
Sit around at home, stare at the walls
Stare at each other and wait till we die
Stare at each other and wait till we die
Probably come to die in this town
Live here my whole life
There's Kerosene around, something to do
There's Kerosene around, she's something to do
There's Kerosene around, she's something to do
There's Kerosene around, we'll find something to do
Kerosene around, she's something to do
Kerosene around, set me on fire
Set me on fire, Kerosene
Set me on fire, Kerosene
Set me on fire, Kerosene
Set me on fire, Kerosene
Set me on fire

>>74367469
still pop. what's your point?

>>74367165
He's right, so maybe he should take his own advice and stop producing god-awful pop.

>>74367469
>all pop music is top 40
why are albinifags so retarded?

>>74367529
>>74367309

>>74367541
something something if it's popular in any way, shape, or form to a demographic, it's pop

metallica, dead kennedys, xxxtentacion, all shit pop industry plants

>>74367309
rock is pop music

>popular music = pop music
rip board

>>74367647
No, it's Rock music. Pop is a different genre

>>74367627
So there isn't a demographic of people that like noise rock?

>>74367647
>>74367541
>>74367529
>>74367193
you know exactly what he means you pedantic retards.

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>>74367541
yeah, big black is sooooo popular, every party i go to after they are done playing the pop and pop rap they put on the big black and all the normalfags get "lit" to underground post hardcore and noise rock from the 80's

>>74367701
There's also a demographic who like Mahler. Is he pop?

>>74367757
Big Black is poppy you fucking faggot. It's not pedantry to point that out.
>>74367768
>big black is sooooo popular
I literally never said that

>>74367783
I'm just going along with the definition that you gave me.

Art Music -> Western "Classical" Music
POPular music -> all rest (except maybe jazz)

>>74367837
When did I give you a definition of pop music?

>>74367857
>POPular music
>POPular
what did he man by this

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>>74367786
Big black legit went out of their way to not be mainstream you absolute plebe

>Big Black's aggressive and abrasive music was characterized by distinctively clanky guitars and the use of a drum machine rather than a drum kit, elements that foreshadowed industrial rock. The band's lyrics flouted commonly held taboos and dealt frankly— and often explicitly— with politically and culturally loaded topics including murder, rape, child sexual abuse, arson, racism, and misogyny. Though the band's lyrics contained controversial material, the lyrics were meant to serve as a commentary or a display of distaste for the subject matter. They were staunchly critical of the commercial nature of rock, shunning the mainstream music industry and insisting on complete control over all aspects of their career. At the height of their success, they booked their own tours, paid for their own recordings, refused to sign contracts, and eschewed many of the traditional corporate trappings of rock bands. In doing so they had a significant impact on the aesthetic and political development of independent and underground rock music.

Steve Albini uses and endorses heroin

>>74367922
>reading comprehension
I literally never said they were mainstream.

>>74367922
they still write 3 minute songs with a verse and a chorus

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>>74367647
This.

>>74367878
maybe it wasn't you but >>74367627

>>74368021
Hmm.....what kind of music goes in the middle

>>74368058
Damn...

>>74368058
Classical music with traditional influence that's meant to appeal to a popular demographic

>>74368078
>art = classical music

>>74367909
why am i reading this in pjw voice

>>74368099
Classical music as an example you dip, I wasn't saying that all art music is classical music.

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>>74368045
So... are you going to answer my question?
>>74368021
I don't think you understand what you are posting.

>>74368134
Then you didn't give me a definition, pretty obvious once there wasn't a (You) there.

>>74368134
not him but do you frequently get in arguments just for the sake of arguing and completely ignores the context behind someone's point?

>>74367296
DAD wearing ripped jeans

>>74368134
I don't think you understand what you are posting.

>>74368181
>>74368190
Oops you didn't answer my question

Try again.

>>74368233
How so?

>>74368224
i think we're getting down to a definition here

DADPOP

>>74368099
No but classical music = art (not always, obviously)

>>74368247
>Is Mahler pop music?
No

>>74368247
Are you just obsessed with being right? I don't think you realize how retarded you're being right now.

>>74367529
How is it pop?

>the amount of bickering that goes in to defining what type of music something is or isn't

>>74368321
i keep saying it, labels are cancer

>>74368279
Now do you see the error?
>>74368289
What do you mean?

The third level of patricianism is not being afraid to admit you like catchy pop music and realize many of them are well-written and creative

>>74368333
What error are you talking about? I was asking a rhetorical question to try and point out a flaw in another person's definition

>>74368336
No, thats when you go so far up your own ass you think that liking music that is popular is subversive, but really you are just a conformist shit

>>74367165
>Trash Metal is for children and idiots.
FTFY

>>74368345
>not being afraid of liking music is somehow bad now
this board is trash

>>74368341
>I was asking a rhetorical question to try and point out a flaw in another person's definition
By implying a flawed definition yourself?

That's counterproductive

>>74368374
When did he give you a definition of pop music?

>>74368374
What flawed definition are you referring to? An anon claimed that Big Black isn't pop music because the definition of pop is >>74367627. However, Big Black (and Mahler) both fall under that definition, so I asked him why he would use that definition if he's trying to prove that Albini isn't pop.

>>74368396
ID the post and I'll show you

>>74367786
pop is short for popular you dumb fuck

>>74368421
Do you think Big Black is pop?

>>74368430
no fucking shit genius

rock is pop music

>>74367412
radiohead makes pop music

>>74368448
No, which was my point. I was trying to show the anon why his definition was hurting his point.

>>74368331
They really aren't. It's people who don't know what they're talking about who misuse labels that are cancer.

>>74368486
Please kys

>>74368518
please at least attempt to understand the bare minimum regarding the medium discussed in this board. There's popular music (pop means this, not only katy perry and 21 pilots), folk music and art music. Both Radiohead and Albini make popular music.

>>74368497
any subject you pick, any board or comments section, 99% of it is people arguing about definitions

>>74368562
So you misspoke

>>74368609
No, because pop means popular music

>>74368609
you have terrible reading comprehension

>>74367193
kek it's true and you faggots know it's true
>>74367469
i caught my 13 year old sister listening to passing complexion because "the guitar is cool"

*shoots your heart out*

>>74368621
>No, because pop means popular music
Incorrect.

Pop Music is a genre of music
Popular Music is one of Tagg's axiomatic triangle, which you are referencing.

As you can see, you are mistakenly combining the concepts of Pop Music and Popular Music
>>74368639
Why are you hear if you don't know about music?

big black is structured like pop music too. why do albini fags get mad about this? doesn't mean it's bad it just makes him a hypocrite

>>74367672
This one guy here got it.

>>74368696
It's structured to be danceble, hook-based, image based and sold as a commodity?

Not exactly.

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But he literally makes pop music

>>74368687
you also have terrible writing

>>74368750
Better see >>74368687 before you embarrass yourself further
>>74368780
Not an argument

>>74367922
>Trying this hard to prove his favorite band isn't pop music.

Just admit it, you love pop music.

>>74368790
Just because it has a thin layer of distortion and he sings about cock doesn't make it non-pop

>>74368790
I'm not arguing, I'm just telling you how retarded you are

this thread is a trainwreck, but I'll be damned if it isn't an entertaining trainwreck to watch

Pop "music"

>>74368833
How so?
>>74368822
Right, the fact that's it's intentionally not marketed as a strict commodity, it's not meant to by hooky, is not danceable and is not image based is what makes it non-pop

>>74368750
This is it.

/thread

>>74368740
pop music not popular music. there's pop like it's a song for two weeks and nobody listens to it again, then there's iggy pop and acdc pop music where there's no accidental notes outside of the scale, theres an intro, verse and chorus. it's literally just the pixies, nirvana, sonic youth, etc without the dynamic. doesn't mean it's bad. the ramones are fucking pop

>>74368864
Is there a reason you don't know what Pop Music is?

>>74368852
>Right, the fact that's it's intentionally not marketed as a strict commodity, it's not meant to by hooky, is not danceable
none of this categorizes pop music, and besides of course albini's toilet jams are marketed as a strict commodity.

>>74368905
>none of this categorizes pop music
[citation needed]

>>74368897
is there a reason you care so much about the label pop music?

i'm not saying early big black is pop, i'm talking about atomizer and songs about fucking

total pop song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuO3wwLuF0w

>>74368924
plenty of pop that is not hooky and danceable m8

>>74368972
Like what?
>>74368969
Still not Pop. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish.

>>74369009
like Big Black

>>74369029
How is that Pop?

>>74369009
>Like what?
not him but you can't just make retarded claims and then ask someone who calls you a retard for proof

>>74369046
>using precise definitions of genre boundaries is retarded!
?

>>74368058
animal collective, bon iver, other shitty bands like that

>>74369045
>>74368750

>>74369072
>>74368687

>>74369067
narrowing down pop as a genre is retarded. it's much more broad than that.

>>74369096
only plebs who listen to shitty bands like big black that popular music and pop music are two seperate entities

>>74369119
Not really. Don't get upset over how music works.
>>74369133
Cool, I don't listen to Big Black, but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

They are separate entities btw

>>74367165
reminder that this man admitted to enjoying child pornography

>>74369159
>Not really. Don't get upset over how music works.
not an argument
pop is not a genre. it's been defined countless times ITT but you're a stubborn retard who keeps saying "NUH-HUH" to everyone who disagrees with you
get some self-awareness

>>74369198
what?

>>74368058
avant-garde jazz / third stream

>it's not image-based
>what's their cover artwork, photo shootings with band members, interviews to promote their bRand, so on

>it's not a commodity
>it's literally a commodity (distributed through albums)

>hook-based
>what are riffs

it's literally pop music marketed towards alternative listeners and ""outcasts""

>>74369213
>not an argument
That's because I already made it. Didn't read the thread?
>pop is not a genre
>Pop music is a genre of popular music that originated in its modern form in the United States and United Kingdom during the mid-1950s. The terms "popular music" and "pop music" are often used interchangeably, although the former describes all music that is popular and includes many styles.
Wow google is your friend, anon
>>74369296
Whom are you quoting?

>>74369296
/thread

>>74369296
That doesn't make it bad. Is pop really such a dirty word?

>>74369069
>>74369241
>folk

Falseeeeeeeeeee

>>74369331
>That's because I already made it. Didn't read the thread?
you didn't. you kept responding to everyone with your own definitions and little to no explanation. you just made your first argument right now, and it's a copy-paste from some shitty website that was already argued against in this thread multiple times.

>>74369409
>Identifying factors include generally short to medium-length songs written in a basic format (often the verse-chorus structure), as well as the common use of repeated choruses, melodic tunes, and hooks.
albini employs literally all of those lmao

>>74369296
Can we end the debate already now?

>>74368750
anyone could have made this.

It's not set in stone.

POP short for popular

popular music. The rest of you who argue otherwise are very very misinformed plebs.

>>74369394
it's not bad, the whole point is that Albini is being a contrarian edgelord

>>74369537
>no evidence
>not a real argument

Wtf I believe you now

>>74369552
Try to argue that pop isn't short for popular. Go ahead, I would love to hear this.

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>>74369537
>It's not set in stone.
>proceeds to force his views into others with no arguments

damn it sure is summer in here

>>74369580
literally no one is arguing against that. are you retarded?

>>74369420
>your own definitions
No, I'm using the official definitions. Aren't you familiar with this? It's strange you'd be on a music board without knowing about music
>>74369550
Not really, not a Pop musician
>>74369580
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music

>>74369616
>According to Pete Seeger, pop music is "professional music which draws upon both folk music and fine arts music".

>>74368648
lets be honest, the guitar IS fucking cool on that song

>>74369616
>citing Wikipedia

HOLY FUCKING LOL

>>74369616
>According to British musicologist Simon Frith, pop music is produced "as a matter of enterprise not art", is "designed to appeal to everyone" and "doesn't come from any particular place or mark off any particular taste". It is "not driven by any significant ambition except profit and commercial reward ... and, in musical terms, it is essentially conservative". It is, "provided from on high (by record companies, radio programmers, and concert promoters) rather than being made from below ... Pop is not a do-it-yourself music but is professionally produced and packaged".[4]

Albini confirmed for pop

>>74369198
elaborate?

>>74369649
What's the problem?
>>74369655
>Albini confirmed for pop musician
Except:
>as a matter of enterprise not art
>designed to appeal to everyone
Nice try though.

>>74369616
do you even read the shit you link

>>74369691
The one that states the musical boundaries of Pop Music, the genre?

Did you?

>>74369642
it is

>>74369688
>According to Frith, characteristics of pop music include an aim of appealing to a general audience, rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology, and an emphasis on craftsmanship rather than formal "artistic" qualities.

>>74369712
>Although pop music is seen as just the singles charts, it is not the sum of all chart music. Pop music is eclectic, and often borrows elements from other styles such as urban, dance, rock, Latin, and country; nonetheless, there are core elements that define pop music. Identifying factors include generally short to medium-length songs written in a basic format (often the verse-chorus structure), as well as the common use of repeated choruses, melodic tunes, and hooks.
fucking retard

>>74369736
>rather than to a particular sub-culture or ideology,
That is what Albini appeals to

Any other questions?

>>74369759
>repeated choruses, melodic tunes, and hooks.
Yep because Shellac is melodic and hooky?

Nah

>>74369787
>nitpicking
Steve has done plenty of music that fits that criteria.

>>74369769
>The main medium of pop music is the song

>>74369811
Like what?

>>74369833
Keep reading...

>>74369894
>The main medium of pop music is the song, often between two and a half and three and a half minutes in length, generally marked by a consistent and noticeable rhythmic element, a mainstream style and a simple traditional structure.[17] Common variants include the verse-chorus form and the thirty-two-bar form, with a focus on melodies and catchy hooks, and a chorus that contrasts melodically, rhythmically and harmonically with the verse.[18] The beat and the melodies tend to be simple, with limited harmonic accompaniment.[19] The lyrics of modern pop songs typically focus on simple themes – often love and romantic relationships – although there are notable exceptions.[4]

>Harmony and chord progressions in pop music are often "that of classical European tonality, only more simple-minded."[20] Clichés include the barbershop quartet-style harmony (i.e. ii – V – I) and blues scale-influenced harmony.[21] There was a lessening of the influence of traditional views of the circle of fifths between the mid-1950s and the late 1970s, including less predominance for the dominant function.[22]

seems legit

>>74369910
So as you can see, Albini's projects really don't fit into this.

I know you really want it to, but it doesn't. Noise rock =/= Pop Music

Both are Popular Music (according to Tagg's Triangle) though.

>>74367681
"Pop" is a weird classification because all it means is "Popular Music". There are Rock bands who during their prime were popular and very profitable. Pop music will never be a concrete definitive musical style. It'll change with the times to be what's currently popular and accessible.

>>74369876
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9zcjhC_myo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxIBx6UUZdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jUs45f5p50
just because it's noisy doesn't mean it can't be pop btw

>>74369958
i don't see albini doing much different to what's described there

>>74369959
>"Pop" is a weird classification because all it means is "Popular Music".
Not exactly.
>Pop music will never be a concrete definitive musical style
But there are a number of unifying qualifiers.
>>74369962
None of these are Pop Music, it's noise rock.

>>74370000
How so?

>>74370013
>None of these are Pop Music, it's noise rock.
it can be both because genres aren't mutually exclusive and pop isn't a narrowly defined genre (if you wanna call it that), as you could clearly see in the wikipedia article you keep linking

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>>74370013
>noise rock
i'm fine with post hardcore but no where near noise rock. are you pulling these genres out of your ass?

>>74370052
well, maybe you could re-quote the things in that post that he isn't doing

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>>74370069
>it can be both because genres aren't mutually exclusive
Except the musical boundaries of both are pretty much opposites
>>74370140
pic related
>>74370144
Maybe you could follow along with a conversation

>>74370194
>Except the musical boundaries of both are pretty much opposites
how so?

>>74370194
dick

>>74369221
>>74369684
>Jeanette, the nutty German rock chick is doing the German shows, and is quite obviously trying to make up for the botch job she did last year. The hall we're playing is on the Reeperbahn: way-cool sleaze strip. Huge gaudy sex shops everywhere. They have many issues of Seventeen, this unbelievably twisted pubescents-fucking-like-weasels mag I first saw in Holland, and they have special Seventeen presents Teenager Action mags, which feature even younger couples in extended fuckoramas.

>Jaded as I am, I can't help but flip seeing a girl and guy of twelve or thirteen, tops, ramming Martel bottles up each other's asses. These are not the Dutch equivalent of abused trailer-park kids, either. They look to be in excellent health and seem to be honestly enjoying this. Makes all the conventional arguments against this kind of thing seem really silly. They're kids. Kids like to play with their own and other people's privates. They're just being photographed at it. Now, people who get a voyeuristic charge out of watching them, like me, I guess, well, we've got some grip-on-reality problems.

>There's maybe 1% of all pornography that has any effect on me, and it's definitely not a turn-on very often. But when it is, and it's as weird as this, it's pretty hard to take. Best and most hilarious knocked-up-and-horny- type future mom books I've seen. Hilarious pre-op TV/TS booty raunch too. Also saw one of the few authentic-dyke hardcore dildo/whole arm/tongue fuck bitch-on-bitch films I've seen. >Two obviously into-it little butch foxes really going at it. Glad to see ya, gals, post-gig party is at my pad.
http://web.archive.org/web/20170327181331/http://www.petdance.com/actionpark/bigblack/tourdiary/

>>74370205
>how so?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music#Characteristics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_rock#Characteristics

>>74370484
that doesn't explain anything
linking two wikipedia articles is a piss-poor excuse for an argument. try actually arguing in favor of your claim.

>>74370533
>that doesn't explain anything
Oh did you not read it?
>for an argument.
Again, I already made my argument long ago. This is just more proof for it.

Please pay attention

>>74368058
Ed Sheeran

>>74370460
can't say I'm surprised. at least he admits he's fucked

>>74370550
>Oh did you not read it?
I did read it. There's nothing that confirms your view.
>Again, I already made my argument long ago. This is just more proof for it.
You didn't. You keep making shallow claims, doubling down on them with no explanation after someone actually makes an argument against it and linking wikipedia articles as if that proves anything.
Again, try making an argument some time.

>>74370674
>I did read it
What did you read specifically?
>You didn't. You keep making shallow claims, doubling down on them with no explanation after someone actually makes an argument against it and linking wikipedia articles as if that proves anything.
What posts are you referring to here?

>>74370720
jesus fucking christ stop playing dumb and asking retarded questions
you're not making any point, you're just trying to throw people for a loop and '''''win''''' this debate by being an annoying fuck
none of your questions are relevant and I'm still waiting for an argument

>>74370800
>you're not making any point,
Except for the one I already made, much earlier in the thread.
>I'm still waiting for an argument
That's because you haven't read the thread

>>74370841
>Except for the one I already made, much earlier in the thread.
again:
>You didn't. You keep making shallow claims, doubling down on them with no explanation after someone actually makes an argument against it and linking wikipedia articles as if that proves anything.
where is your argument that wasn't already disproven several times? repeating the same thing over and over with no explanation doesn't count as an argument btw

>>74369415
spiritual jazz definitely has folk elements

>>74370917
again:
>What posts are you referring to here?

Link them all and prove you read the thread.

If you are unable to, then I don't see why you are replying to me. Just attack the argument, not me perosnally please.

>>74369198
based

I'm legitimately wondering if Albini was using "pop music" in the colloquial sense (i.e. "teen pop" like Britney Spears) or the wider traditional sense (anything non-academic/classical/avant garde). How widely does his "pop" perimeter go? Is he condemning indie genres like jangle pop?

>>74371000
>>What posts are you referring to here?
all of them. every single post you made. there's actually zero arguments in every post of yours in this thread. between all the pedantry, all the shitty wikipedia articles you keep linking and all of the playing dumb you do.
fuck off. this is my last (You). I'll be waiting for yours.

Half of you are fucking retards you know? Big Black,Radiohead,Pink Floyd,Katy Perry,Nirvana,Beyonce,Boards of Canada,Aphex Twin,Twenty one pilots,Kreator,Slayer etc.. all make Pop music.

>>74371089
You're in that half, Bud.

>>74371084
>all of them
Specifically, which ones? Link them
>>74371089
Only about three of those artists make Pop Music, what are you on about?

>>74371064
>I'm legitimately wondering if Albini was using "pop music" in the colloquial sense (i.e. "teen pop" like Britney Spears) or the wider traditional sense (anything non-academic/classical/avant garde).
He would have said "popular music" had he meant the latter

>>74367529
>took one music course in community college

Impressive