STEVEN WILSON: TODAY’S RAP IS MORE INNOVATIVE THAN TODAY’S ROCK

>>74230698

Both rap and rock are worse than they were 20 years ago so

oh boy it's this thread again

>>74230698
he's right tho

>>74230698
This is a true statement, and nowhere in the interview did he imply that rap was music. Shame on rock 'musicians' desu.

>>74230698
“Stuff like Radiohead and Arcade Fire, and these guys aren’t even new artists. Both bands are accessible but explore the possibilities of music.

“The real innovations are coming from artists like Kendrick Lamar who exists more in the hip-hop scene.”

In other words, this guy has no more credibility than your average underage mutant.

>>74230764
what albums have u remastered?

>>74230764
>Kendrick Lamar who exists more in the hip-hop scene
what an observation

>>74230698
>RAP IS MORE INNOVATIVE THAN TODAY’S ROCK
he can be blamed for this as well

Name 1 (one) innovative rock album that came out this decade.

it is kinda funny coming from steven wilson honestly

>>74230825
here u go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTU2iSdsU8Q

pretty sure my dog is more innovative than steven wilson but w/e

>>74230825

Name one innovative rap record and name what it did that was new

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>>74230847
>Tame Impala
>innovative
you can't be serious

>>74230870
link me a similar song then buddy
i'll wait

Go ahead, name some rock albums in the past 5 years that pushed the genre the way Flower Boy, The Money Store, Blonde, To Pimp a Butterfly have been pushing hip-hop.

>>74230867
yeezus
post-industrial hip hop

>>74230881
any synth-based psych rock song

>>74230889

So sampling old rock music and rapping shit lyrics over it?

>>74230825
Halycon Digest

>>74230900
where's the links buddy

>>74230902
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W73Gnr9nwl4
what rock song is sampled here?

Rock honestly has no where else to go. It's hit a dead end because every single rock genre/ sub-genre/ style/ phase has happened already.

Rap is more innovative because it's still a relatively new genre in music. In 10-20 years time though, let's see if rap still stands the test of time.

>>74230764
He has more eclectic music taste than 90% of this board
http://stevenwilsonhq.com/sw/playlist-archive/

>>74230906
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B58zGah_yNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB53uAUx40o

>>74230926
>links literal circus music
lmao jfc raptards are really stupid

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>>74230947
not an argument

>>74230966
piper gates sounds nothing like lonerism.
try again

>>74230974
it does though
Tame Impala isn't innovative. you'll realize that when you listen to more music

>>74230839
Yeah the man needs to look in the mirror as his entire discography from "The Raven That Refused to Sing" onward has been microwaved leftovers of 70s prog rock concepts that were far better executed by the masters themselves.

However, Hip-Hop has been pretty stagnant itself too.

>>74230923
HAHAHA how the fuck are you going to listen to your own music.

>>74230698
Innovation is a meme. Just play the music. The good kind.

>>74231028
this desu

>>74230734
Fuck you tho

>>74230947
>demands examples and evidence
>complains when he's given examples and evidence

>>74230867

>MBDTF

basically turned hip-hop into a Wagner-ian symphony

>TPAB

combined a ton of genres from funk to soul to jazz to electronic etc. with actual live instrumentation and a cohesive concept in a way that hadn't been done before

>AE

incorporated post-punk, industrial and Radiohead-ish art rock elements all into a hip-hop album

>NOTM

I don't even know how to explain this one, it's probably the most innovative album of the decade in general

>>74230923
he listens to music like once a month?

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>>74231004
i've listened to pf longer than you have been born.pic related
you have yet to even articulate how piper gates even remotely resembles the sounds on lonerism

if you're going to troll least post an artist who sounds similar to tame impala like todd rundgren

>>74230926
>synth-based psych rock

>>74230698
>"NIGGUH NIGGUH FUCK BITCHES MONEY DRUGS CRIMINAL"
>Innovative
I lol'd.

That said, this is still easily the boldest thing released by a "hip-hop" group, bar none.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uggrc_rcpm0

>>74230698
Well he's right, unfortunately. How could anyone dispute this?

>>74231064
your scrobbles are irrelevant and you have yet to articulate how lonerism is in any way innovative

>>74231083

>muh reductionism

>>74231083
>it's a racist doesn't actually listen to hip-hop episode

I like Steven Wilson but this is ironic considering a large majority of his music is just mid 2000s pop rock mixed with Pink Floyd.

>>74231111
nice quads

>>74231102
first article how pf is even remotely similar to lonerism and i'll gladly explain why lonerism is innovated

>>74231117
t. nu-male

>>74231117
Rap isn't music, regardless if it's made by a white, black or Asian.

>>74231128
you're the one who said Tame Impala is innovative. I'll put some effort when you do.

>>74231117
stay woke nigga

>>74231182
It objectively is.

>>74231052
>NOTM
>it's probably the most innovative album of the decade

Jesus some people actually believe this

>>74231193
and you're the one who said "any synth-based psych rock song"

and posted fucking piper which sounds nothing like it. don't challenge me then back off like a pussy

>>74230698
>rap
>he's talking about hip hop
Shows how much Wilson knows about music outside "obscure" 70s prog bands.

But yeah, popular music will always be more innovative, despite being more simple.

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>>74230825
>>74230825

>>74231224
right, piper isn't synth-based, but if you can't see the similarities with Tame Impala you actually need to check your ears

>>74230923

>Eclectic = good taste

That's absolutely preposterous, 99% of rap and metal is absolute garbage, why would I listen to that

>>74231250
He listens to lots of other genres

>>74231248
besides them both using guitars. no i can't
if you said the beatles sure you could have had me easily.

>>74231245
love that album but it isn't innovative

>>74231292
we're both bored aren't we

>>74230885
>Blonde
This is r&b

>>74231319
no its hip hop also

>>74230885
blonde is garbage

If we are talking about innovative rock, please don't post Tame Impala. If that is the best that rock has to offer, it truly hasn't innovated

If we are talking innovative rock, these are better examples

Steven Wilson - Luminol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w8SY_9yO8k

Steven Wilson - Ancestral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6bF6oKJKKQ


Hiromis Sonicbloom - Time Difference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUU19Cnf-0

Phideaux - Thank You For The Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvGc4VEy97Q

The Flower Kings - For The Love Of God
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Taw99vMIyhM

Big Big Train - The Transit of Venus Across the Sun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S72wsZ6VNno

Between the Buried and Me - The Ectopic Stroll
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Ri4PuRjLk

You also got Riverside, Opeth, Neal Morse (if you are into that), Haken, IQ, and many more. Plus Mike Oldfield put out a new album just this year.

>>74231293
If steven wilson isn't innovative, what would you consider to be innovative?

>>74231420
Totally forgot

The Dear Hunter - The Revival
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nozJHtuautU

>>74231420
all trash

>>74231503
what would you consider to not be trash?

>>74231519
https://vickychow.bandcamp.com/album/michael-gordon-sonatra

>>74231420
>Wilson
>Opeth
>innovative
Nah, Opeth hasn't been innovative since Blackwater Park.

I think The Psychic Pramount, Daughters and Tera Melos have put interesting stuff.

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Rap as a genre is more widely defined, spoken word poetry for lyrical delivery is the essence of it. A rap song can have a wide range of instrumentals in the background, anything from bass-driver 90s stuff, funk, rock, jazz, electronic, classical, etc. and it will still be considered part of the genre.

Rock as a genre is generally defined by the guitar (particularly electric) being a prominent instrument. It's a good instrument but there are a lot of other instruments and sounds that can make for good music. It makes sense that rock became less prominent because it's largely defined by a single instrument while rap is defined by the lyrical delivery method.

A fairer comparison would be spoken word vs power ballad music, which most rock music falls under. Both styles are popular.

>>74231575
It may not have been their best album, but I thought Pale Communion was pretty innovative.

Also I'm kind of surprised that nobody thinks of Steven Wilson as innovative. He definitely derives a lot of his music from pop and 4 chord 80s stuff, but his song structures are pretty unique. Plus the way he structures his chords in his odd numbered time signatures is mirrored, which is really interesting and I can't say I've heard someone doing that as consistently has he does. For instance, 5:30 in that steven wilson ancestral video I linked has the rhythm set up in a way that it the beats alternate back and forth from 1-2-3-4 + 1-2-3 to 1-2-3 + 1-2-3-4, then he uses that rhythm to make his follow up measure sound like a callback to the previous one. It's really cool imo and it's certainly more innovative than any other rock band I know of currently making new music

>>74231621
That makes sense. Plus rock is pretty heavily tied to blues, which is kind of niche in the grand scheme of musical innovations. It also makes Progressive rock one of the hardest genres to define imo, leaving tons and tons of subgenres that are so removed from standard rock that they are hardly related at all. Prog rock bands like Van Der Graaf Generator even replaced the guitar in the lineup (with a sax in this case)

>>74231575
We just going to forget damnation ever happened?

>>74231771
The trio of rock/prog rock/post rock is probably comparable to jazz, although like rock is with rap, jazz is stricter by definition. Both use bass/drums but jazz is known mainly air instruments and the piano while music that falls under the rock trio has a wider range of instruments in its definition.

>>74231888
I love Damnation, but I wouldn't really consider it innovative. I mean, it was a sudden shift from their work, but I don't think it incorporated something new to rock or metal.

>>74232008
Did you check out that Hiromi's Sonicbloom video I posted here >>74231420 ? It feels like it's built from that trinity of rock you suggested, but it ends up almost being very very similar to jazz. I mean, obviously they didn't accidentally discover jazz through rock, but it is interesting to think of it as coming full circle

>>74231526
I listened to this. It was pretty fucking horrible. 15 minutes of arpeggios on a honky tonk piano, but I'm satisfied that if this is what you think is not trash, then what you see as trash should be pretty consistently amazing as far as I'm concerned.

>>74232105
Yeah the way he plays the guitar sounds similar to how the sax is played in jazz

>>74232267
Yeah he's a teacher at the Berklee school of music (not to be confused with the one in california)

I love the way he plays guitar, it sounds like he's making it talk, like in this part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsuPkyFQuQ&t=2m

Hard not to agree. Hip hop started out with a very culturally narrow background and moving too far from those roots musically was often looked down on, up until recently. People were telling Saul Williams his music wasn't even hip hop when he put out his first album, and that was still in the 2000s.

>>74231621
Neither of them are genres, stupid

nu-hip hop is shit and only white people listen to it.

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>>74232600
>rap and rock are not genres
>mfw

>>74230825
To Be Kind
Bisch Bosch

>>74231621
rap is not a genre, ya idiot. it's a style of vocal delivery.

>>74231621
>A rap song can have a wide range of instrumentals in the background, anything from bass-driver 90s stuff, funk, rock, jazz, electronic, classical, etc. and it will still be considered part of the genre.
So can a rock song...

>>74233066
he has no idea what he is talking about. ignore the retard

>>74232649

What the hell is nu-hip hop?

>>74230825
Eraser Stargazer
Plastic House on Base of Sky
Paracletus
The Seer
Bilateral
Aesthetica

Just to name some of the popular ones. Pretty sure he's pulling a Gallagher here, it's in the genes.

>>74232788
They're not. Why the fuck people get information regarding music from wikipedia, I really do not know.

>>74233920
>my opinions are facts

>>74231216

okay name one that's more innovative then?

>>74233960
It's not my opinion.

>>74230721
>le wrong generation xd

Rap isn't comparable to rock in that way. The genre is barely music to begin with, so there's more room for like "randomness" in the production. You can put weird samples all over rap and not have it be a big deal, but if you try to do that in rock, you're taking away from the melodies and chord progressions. Rocks innovation happens on a musical level. Rap just makes weird sounding samples and calls it innovation.

It's kind of like how the romantic era composers were using the same orchestras that classical era composers were using. Rock has been using the same instruments since the 60s, but the instruments themselves are kind of secondary. The real innovation is happening on the level of the musical ideas, not the sound samples.

>>74230698

Well duh

>>74230825

Sunbather.
Yellow & Green, Purple.

>>74233066
yes and no.

As soon as you add a little variety to the instruments used to make a rock song, people start bitching if they're nit part of the traditional guitar, bass, drums. Fuck this piano man I'm here to rock!!!!!".

I've heard it countless times.

>>74230847
a revival group called innovative
cuntie

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you can be more innovative in hip hop thanks to the electronic instrtuments always present since their beginnings.

btw pic was one of my favs from the decade, to my ears is innovative rock, not a mere revival or imitators (eg tame impala, shoegaze, dream pop, savages...)

>>74234172
Many types of electronic music, metal and pop music are better now than they have ever been. It's not le wrong generation to recognise trends in how genres hit peaks or troughs in quality.

Hip-Hop is like the red-headed step child of music. It has such a low-ceiling and low expectations that the "parents" (music critics) unduly praise it when it manages to not be completely shit.

In terms of "innovation," rock has covered all the ground that shit-hop is just starting to tread on.

>>74235918
>Many types of electronic music, metal and pop music are better now than they have ever been
Not at all, especially for Pop

>>74236060

Pretty much this.

I have no problem with these industry talking heads want to celebrate hip-hop and rap for innovating vis a vis the standards in its own genre, but as you said, rock has already explored many of the so-called innovations (I don't see the innovation, personally. If you listened to a lot of 90's alternative hip-hop, trip-hop, drum-and-bass, and dub, nothing modern producers are doing is all that "new") that are happening in hip-hop.

>>74234549
>The real innovation is happening on the level of the musical ideas, not the sound samples.

Indeed.

Reading this thread convinces me that "innovation" (regarding art) is a meaningless buzzword that needs to die. No one can really agree on what a "musical innovation" is.

>Musical innovation
>Easy anon, it's means incorporating a new sound or a new compositional structure in a novel and fresh way.

Okay. But how do you quantify that? You can perhaps mathematically prove it in some sense by comparing song structure, but it's a mammoth task to actually tease away "innovation" from that exercise since music, being based on math, can have infinite variation.

In my mind, innovation is a subjective determination. Basically, "This song is amazing. Blew me away. Never heard anything like before." While the next person might think that same song is boring and derivative.

>>74235918
how the fuck is metal now better than ever before, the only notable band in the last 15 years is Mastodon

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rock nowadays is more a revival thing (strokes, white stripes, tame impala, savages, alvays, etc). to me creative rock are groups like big black, rapeman, shellac or the fall

and more innovative than hip hop is actually electronic music