Greatest krautrock album?

t. listened to less than five krautrock albums

Rammstein-Du Hast

i like ege bamyasi more

>>74114981
That one since it's the best album of all time

>>74115076
I listen to Ege Bamyasi more but Tago Mago is the more perfect album, it's a masterpiece from start to finish

>>74115008
I've listened to over 30 krautrock albums (still not a lot, but more than 5) and Future Days, Faust IV and Neu! 75 are my top 3. Nothing wrong with liking entry level stuff
My favorite Krautrock album not by one of those three is Agitation Free - 2nd

>>74114981
Faust is better

Faust - Faist

>>74115008
>>74115129
You have to be 18+ to post here

Future Days is so much better

Monster Movie

>>74115008
>implying there are more than five relevant krautrock albums

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>>74115222
>digs krautrock
>dates to label anyone mocking it a minor
Buy yourself a mirror, it would help

>>74115309
Right? Embryo is boring shit

>>74115332
Disliking Krautrock isn't how I know you're underage

>>74115309
Popol Vuh's Hosianna Mantra
Can's Big 3 (TM, EB, FD)
Faust, Faust IV
NEU!, NEU! 75
Amon Duul II's Yeti, Phallus Dei


durrrr

>>74115374
You forgot Phaedra, Zuckerzeit and E2-E4

>>74115374
>missing out Cluster and Harmonia

>>74115398
I didn't forget Tangerine Dream but they are less concretely considered Krautrock. I agree though.

>Zuckerzeit and E2-E4
++
As well as pretty much anything Manuel Gottsching has touched.

>>74115408
++

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>>74114981
*blocks your path*

>>74115374
>le can big 3
monster movie is great you cock sucker

>>74115285
Father Cannot Yell is a standout of Can's discography, it's one of the best moments of rock music period

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>>74114981
>>74115455
*blocks YOUR path*

>>74115462
Mooney is the inferior vocalist, don't pretend otherwise.

>>74115374
>(TM, EB, FD)
nigger this isn't SMS spell those words out

>>74115462
and Soon Over Babaluma, people need to explore discographies for themselves instead of strictly listening to whatever /mu/ deems they should before moving on to the next artist they'll pay attention to for less than a week.

>>74115502
Imagine actually believing this

>>74115502
Who cares about the singing? Actual pleb comment my man

>no Glenn Branca
>no Henry Cow
>no Tortoise
>no Cul de Sac
>no Chrome
Why is /mu/ so plebeian?

>Popul Vuh
>Tangerine Dream
>Cluster
>Manuel Göttsching
>Krautrock
Why is /mu/ so ignorant as well?

>>74115506
Tago Mago
Ege Bamyasi
Future Days

>>74115518
Soon Over Babaluma is what you listen to when you don't have the patience for Future Days nor the energy for Ege Bamyasi. Dizzy Dizzy is one of their better openers.

>>74115534
Imagine being such an abhorrent pleb that you consider Malcolm "ehh" Mooney as the superior Can vocalist. Suzuki is a god.

>>74115279
this

>>74115571
When you're speaking nonsenical gibberish and making dog noises anyway enunciating and actually singing is a non-issue, Mooney being an actual poet absolutely shows through in his lyrical content and vocal work in general.

>>74115462
Not just Monster Movie but also Delay 1968, Soundtracks, Soon Over Babaluma, Peel Sessions, a good chunk of The Lost Tapes, and Holger Czukay's early post-Can stuff.
Can have somehow managed to become simultaneously overrated and grossly underrated.

>>74115374
You forgot La Dusseldorf too

>>74115612
>Holger Czukay's early post-Can stuff
Don't you mean "pre-Can" stuff? Canaxis 5 is awesome.

>>74115568
>no Tortoise
>no Cul de Sac
This is a very, very old argument, but nearly all post-rock can be considered krautrock and vice-versa (aside from arbitrary signifiers). Mutual intelligibility is more helpful than philosophical discussions on genre tags.

Kraut Neoclassical with guitar licks can be shuffled under Krautrock very comfortably. Nice to see you again.

>>74115604
> actually singing
[laughter]

>>74115619
Was never a fan.

>>74115568
What did he mean by this?

>>74115568
are you implying those first few bands are krautrock?
the second list falls firmly under cosmic music which is effectively a synonym for krautrock

>>74115568
good troll

>>74115635
>This is a very, very old argument, but nearly all post-rock can be considered krautrock and vice-versa
Eh, not really. You wouldn't call Faust post rock, and you wouldn't call GYBE post rock either. There are certainly a lot of influences, but the bands mentioned above are all Krautrock. I mean, Tortoise is Neu + Steve Reich, and Cul de Sac is Can + American Primitivism.

>Kraut Neoclassical with guitar licks can be shuffled under Krautrock very comfortably.
Not at all. You might as well call Tubular Bells krautrock by that logic.

>Nice to see you again.
Same desu :3

>>74115652
>are you implying those first few bands are krautrock?
Yes
>the second list falls firmly under cosmic music which is effectively a synonym for krautrock
Wrong. See:
>Why is /mu/ so ignorant as well?

>>74115635
>but nearly all post-rock can be considered krautrock and vice-versa
>this non-genre created by journalist hacks can be considered this non-genre created by journalist hacks and vice-versa
damn

>>74115693
Not trolling.

>>74115703
9.5/10 post

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>>74115635
>but nearly all post-rock can be considered krautrock and vice-versa

>>74115694
>You wouldn't call Faust post rock
I would indeed if it were released in the 90's outside of Germany and was commonly referred to as post-rock. This is due to the genre tags of "krautrock" and "post-rock" being extremely vague and almost identical in practice.

>You might as well call Tubular Bells krautrock by that logic.
"kraut"

>>74115703
Yes, that is what I am saying.

>>74115694
>Wrong
top tier argument
also: do you do anything other than shitpost about what genre rock albums are?

>>74115759
>I would indeed if it were released in the 90's outside of Germany and was commonly referred to as post-rock.
1) Determining if something is part of a genre based on country is stupid
2) Determining if something is part of a genre based on decade is stupid
3) Determining if something is part of a genre based on what other people say is stupid

>This is due to the genre tags of "krautrock" and "post-rock" being extremely vague and almost identical in practice.
It depends. There are both stupid and non stupid definitions for both. I'm pretty sure you can guess which are the stupid definitions already. The non stupid definitions are more ambiguous, but at least they would make more sense than the stupid ones.

>"kraut"
See point 1) above

>>74115796
It's true though. Krautrock and cosmic music are not synonyms. Can and Popol Vuh have nothing in common, for example.

>do you do anything other than shitpost about what genre rock albums are?
What's wrong? Arguing about taxonomy, and especially music genres, is one of my favorite hobbies.

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only correct answer

Open challenge: provide purely aesthetic definitions (i.e. musical styles, influences, not including culture, time and geography) for "krautrock" and "post-rock" that disallows one to show a large crossover between them.

This is the twelfth time I have had this argument, and I have become exceedingly efficient at it.

>>74115827
Points 1, 2, and 3 are a demonstration of why genre tags are not useful in giving precise descriptors of music outside of giving someone who has not heard a piece a very vague idea of the piece's content. They do not, however, change the descriptive nature of my argument: this is how things _do_ work, not how they _should_ work.

>I'm pretty sure you can guess which are the stupid definitions already.
The stupid ones are all of them, currently.

>Can and Popol Vuh have nothing in common, for example.
classically trained (and conscious) individuals incorporating minimalism into rock structures with the aid of tape loops, guitars, keyboards, etc.

>>74115827
You're an idiot
"Krautrock" is not a genre
If it wasn't part of the post-war German revival movement in music it isn't Krautrock, simple as

>>74115462
>>74115518
>>74115571
Everything from Delay 1968 to Soon Over Balumba is worth checking out, though Tago Mago - Future Days are the best

>>74115907
>>74115827
>incorporating minimalism into rock structures
other way around

>>74115950
absolutely. dedicated fans can find a lot of value afterwards as well, when the core of the band shifted from the percussion to the keyboards.

>>74115694
>and you wouldn't call GYBE post rock either
Fucking what?

>>74115907
>Points 1, 2, and 3 are a demonstration of why genre tags are not useful in giving precise descriptors of music outside of giving someone who has not heard a piece a very vague idea of the piece's content.
I don't see how from those points follow what you are saying. Genre tags are not defined by those points, so you can't conclude something about genres based on it.

>The stupid ones are all of them, currently.
What genre are Can, Neu, and Faust then?

>classically trained (and conscious) individuals
Irrelevant when it comes to music genres.

>incorporating minimalism into rock structures with the aid of tape loops, guitars, keyboards, etc.
Is Tubular Bells the same genre as Can and Popol Vuh then?

>>74115913
>"Krautrock" is not a genre
Can, Neu, Faust, etc are not part of the same genre? What genre are they then? Psychedelic rock?

>>74115981
I meant Krautrock instead of post rock.

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>>74115518
>>74115612
Soon Over Babaluma is overrated if anything

Also neither of you mentioned pic related

>>74115827
How old were you when you were diagnosed with autism?

>>74116079
>Genre tags are not defined by those points
Genre tags are defined by mutual intelligibility, and those points are useful in making certain tags mutually intelligible.

>What genre are Can, Neu, and Faust then?
Krautrock. "Stupid" does not always mean "useless".

>Irrelevant when it comes to music genres.
Genres are not always objective analyses of aesthetic traits and musical qualities. More importantly, however, that point is irrelevant. We are looking for the common threads that bind these bands together.

>Is Tubular Bells the same genre as Can and Popol Vuh then?
"kraut" is of particular importance here, I don't personally consider Tubular Bells as krautrock but this also touches on the point that there are certain genres that Tubular Bells and Popol Vuh would fit into outside of krautrock such as ""progressive rock"" and ""experimental rock"". Genre tags are not monoliths.

You are arguing as though your premise is universally understood and agreed upon as the foundation of the argument. I am challenging this foundation which makes arguing in this style pointless.

>>74116116
there's a reason for that desu

>>74116186
You tell me first.

>>74116206
Genre tags are defined only by the music though. You should be able to tell what genre something is without having to look at where or when it was done.

>Krautrock. "Stupid" does not always mean "useless".
So you admit krautrock is a genre. How do you define krautrock then?

>Genres are not always objective analyses of aesthetic traits and musical qualities.
But they are. External factors are irrelevant. A music genre is defined by the music and nothing else.

>"kraut" is of particular importance here
See my points above.

>I don't personally consider Tubular Bells as krautrock but this also touches on the point that there are certain genres that Tubular Bells and Popol Vuh would fit into outside of krautrock such as ""progressive rock"" and ""experimental rock""
Of course, they can be krautrock and progressive rock at the same time. Now, I wouldn't consider Popul Vuh neither progressive rock nor experimental rock.

>You are arguing as though your premise is universally understood and agreed upon as the foundation of the argument. I am challenging this foundation which makes arguing in this style pointless.
I'm well aware of that, don't worry.

>>74116079
>Can, Neu, Faust, etc are not part of the same genre?
Ege Bamyasi and Tago Mago aren't even the same genre
A lot of krautrock can typically be filed under space rock, various sub-genres of prog or early electronic a la Kraftwerk or Tangerine Dream
Entriely dependent on the band

>>74116317
>Ege Bamyasi and Tago Mago aren't even the same genre
Tell me what genre they are then.

>A lot of krautrock can typically be filed under space rock, various sub-genres of prog or early electronic a la Kraftwerk or Tangerine Dream
What about Tago Mago? Neu's debut? Future Days? Faust's debut? Faust's IV?

>>74116274
>Genre tags are defined only by the music though.
I invite you to accept the challenge here >>74115907

>So you admit krautrock is a genre. How do you define krautrock then?
Loosely and more on circumstance than a rigid set of rules i.e. things mutually understood to be krautrock among similarly informed conversation partners to myself --or-- more rigidly when introducing the concept to someone not familiar and including basics such as geography and time period.

Post-rock and Krautrock can be described nearly identically when you take into account only the musical attributes of the "genres". External traits are necessary for a conversation to continue with mutual intelligibility instead of semantics discussions.

>A music genre is defined by the music and nothing else.
demonstrably false

>I wouldn't consider Popul Vuh neither progressive rock nor experimental rock.
bit of a distraction but the liberties that Popol Vuh takes with the range of sounds and rhythms, as well as basic things like instrumentation and structure, can firmly stick them into an "experimental" subcategory of "rock music"

Hosianna Mantra is, at its core, a fancy and well-composed rock album.

>>74116344
I dunno, classify them yourself
Krautrock is simply an umbrella term coined by Faust and British journalists that wasn't meant to be taken seriously

>>74116426
>I invite you to accept the challenge here
Alright then. Let me see.

>post rock
>music built upon the aesthetics of GYBE's and Mogwai's debut albums and similar

>krautrock
>music built upon the Frank Zappa's debut's D-Side or similar

>demonstrably false
Eh, not at all. At most you could say it's completely arbitrary, but not false.

>bit of a distraction but the liberties that Popol Vuh takes with the range of sounds and rhythms, as well as basic things like instrumentation and structure, can firmly stick them into an "experimental" subcategory of "rock music"
The thing is Popol Vuh is not even rock on the first place. They have guitars, but that doesn't make them rock.

>>74116456
>I dunno, classify them yourself
You are the one who said they were different genres, I'm the one who is saying they are all krautrock, so I already did what you are asking me.

>Krautrock is simply an umbrella term coined by Faust and British journalists that wasn't meant to be taken seriously
Again, tell me what genre those albums are if you think I'm wrong. I agree the term has been used as an umbrella term, but it's useful to categorize those albums above.

>>74116564
I would call Ege Bamyasi Avant-Funk, although I dislike the connotation "avant" has these days it's an honest and legitimate genre to put it under.
Tago Mago is more psych-rock with jazz leanings

>>74116687
>I would call Ege Bamyasi Avant-Funk
Ehhh... I don't buy into that, regardless of what you said, but okay.

>Tago Mago is more psych-rock with jazz leanings
What about the second half? That's way too removed from psych rock and jazz already to be considered either.

>>74116728
>Ehhh... I don't buy into that
Why not?
As for Aumgn and Peking O there's no point defining the avant-garde as a genre because that's entirely against the point, it is what it is.
If you're insistent then just label it experimental rock and be done with it, but that doesn't tell you much of anything either so you're back to square one.

>>74116564
>built upon the aesthetics of GYBE's and Mogwai's debut albums and similar
define them
I am also operating under the notion of post-rock occurring in general "waves" which attribute stylistic shifts to certain landmark albums e.g. lift yr skinny fists, millions now living will never die, bark psychosis' hex, etc

>>music built upon the Frank Zappa's debut's D-Side or similar
define the aesthetics or provide evidence for the link across the individual pieces you consider krautrock

>At most you could say it's completely arbitrary, but not false.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+krautrock&rlz=1CATAAB_enUS659US659&oq=what+is+krautrock&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l2.3011j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Krautrock and "germany" are inseparable in every reliable definition of the genre.

>Popol Vuh is not even rock on the first place.
https://www.discogs.com/Popol-Vuh-Hosianna-Mantra/release/1481966
http://www.allmusic.com/album/hosianna-mantra-mw0001993448
This particular point is unproductive so I will say that it is merely debatable for now. May start a thread on it later.

>>74116803
>Aumgn and Peking O
Krautrock.

>define them
That would be too bothersome to do, but you get the idea. Those two recordings are the first examples I can think of that fit the "post rock stereotype". Of course, if there are any similar recordings that predate them, then they would fall under the "similar" part of the definition.

Now, you probably aren't convinced by this definition, but try to define jazz instead (we can both agree it's a genre, right?). The thing with jazz is that it's impossible to define it under a single "checklist" of musical attributes, so you have to define the genre by music that sounds similar to a specific set of groups (Dixieland, maybe? Louis Armstrong?). Try it, it's impossible to define jazz in any other way.

>I am also operating under the notion of post-rock occurring in general "waves"
Please no...

>Krautrock and "germany" are inseparable in every reliable definition of the genre.
Of course, because krautrock was bigger in Germany (but not exclusively).

>This particular point is unproductive so I will say that it is merely debatable for now. May start a thread on it later.
Discogs and Allmusic are not reliable in the slightest.

>>74116825
Forgot to quote you >>74116962

>>74116962
You're replying to two different people

>>74116990
See >>74116983

>>74116962
>because krautrock was bigger in German (but not exclusively)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH STOP

I've been digging modern krautrock inspired stuff like Goat and FMB by King Gizzard, anyone have any recs? I haven't really diven deep into 70's stuff but really enjoyed side B of Neu! '75 (and not so much the electronic stuff like Kraftwerk)

>>74117024
What's wrong? It's true. Some krautrock artists where playing krautrock outside of Germany. See: Parson Sound from 1968 in Sweden.

>>74115498
hallogallo is the only good song and you know it

>>74117353
>no Negativland
Plebeian

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>this pleb level taste

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>modern bands that keep the krautrock spirit alive

>>74114981
How do Americans pronounce that name?

>>74117431
I say tah-go mah-go

>>74116962
>That would be too bothersome to do, but you get the idea
Yeah that's the point. The more concretely one attempts to define a genre on the basis of musical traits the less useful that genre tag becomes at tying together many releases.

>Please no...
Again, descriptive definitions are more useful.

I am struggling to understand what your central premise is.

>>74117474
>Yeah that's the point. The more concretely one attempts to define a genre on the basis of musical traits the less useful that genre tag becomes at tying together many releases.
That's why you have to see what I said about jazz and how it relates to my construction of genres based on similarities instead of a single definition based on a "checkbox" of musical elements.

>I am struggling to understand what your central premise is.
That krautrock is a genre in the same way jazz is, even though not all commonly called krautrock albums are krautrock and some albums not commonly called krautrock are krautrock as well. And the same goes for post rock.