This is the most skilled musician who has ever lived.

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yeah about that

No its Beethoven mate. Bach sticks to a formula, he wasn't allowed to write outside it 'cause church

>>73703716
Hes good but he's no Grimes

he was also the most deaf musician in history

>>73703904
>sticks to a formula
so much that every fugue sounds unique although it's the most formulaic of all forms? musicologists still havent figured out how to analyze their substance universally.

some modernisms found in bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgw569OwAzY
12-tone style in F minor fugue #12 from WTC 1

tritone in "es ist genug" choral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScDHnoGVltQ

>>73703929
chtpt

>>73704766
the same applies to the sonata form

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>>73703716

Bach was more influential than he was actually skilled. He laid the groundwork for the truly skilled musicians to follow, but was restrained in certain ways based on his times. Any time someone proclaims Bach to be the all-time master of music, I instantly know they have never actually studied music/theory academically.

>>73705134
>six-part fugues
>improvised
>not most skilled

Bach won music. Prolific, skillful, professional, humble. Nobody's close.

>>73705223

>six part fugues

babby shit compared to what later composers did/do.

>improvised

for one that's not true and for two even if it was, jazz musicians from the 20th century made colossally more significant improvisations than what Bach did.

again, easiest way to spot someone who doesn't know what they're talking about is if they don't understand why Bach WASN'T the greatest, by a long shot.

>>73705422
0/10

>>73705488

enjoy embarrassing yourself if you ever talk to an educated person about Bach IRL

>>73705698
enjoy being 12 and invoking authority of institutions because you cant form own arguments

>>73705851

I'm 23 and I did form my arguments here >>73705422 and here >>73705134 whereas you just made this shitpost >>73705488

>>73705134

Bach wrote pieces that could be played forwards and backwards simultaneously and they harmonize perfectly

>>73705886

is that supposed to be impressive compared to what has been achieved now?

>>73703716
Yeah but did he ever make a banger though?

>>73703716
I think you mean composer not musician

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I'll just leave this here.

>>73705969
what has been achieved in 5 minutes or less of music that is more impressive

>>73706924
bach could improvise fugues

>>73705422
>saying something is baby shit compared to what came after without giving any concrete examples is an argument

>not true
Yes.
>Jazz musicians
dude lmao

>>73703716
man, Jerry Lee Lewis hasn't aged well.

>>73705134
lol

>>73705134
>Bach to be the all-time master of music, I instantly know they have never actually studied music/theory academically

you're full of yourself.

at the level where bach was at it's a matter of opinion.

but most importantly music will always be judged mainly upon its emotional resonance.

not its academic merit

>>73707010
looks like boyinaband lmao

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>>73703716
>>73703904
>classical fags STILL believe Bach or Beethoven are the most talented musicians of all-time
K E K

>>73707256

>saying something is baby shit compared to what came after without giving any concrete examples is an argument

it's objective fact. fine, I'll spoonfeed you. what modern/contemporary composers in the last hundred years have been doing with serialism, spectralism, indeterminacy etc. is FAR more complex and requires far more knowledge and skill than ANYTHING Bach ever touched.

if Bach was confronted with the kinds of composing techniques that were developed in the 20th century, his head would explode. they just completely BTFO anything he ever wrote or any way he could ever play his instrument.

>dude lmao

not an argument, also show me a Bach improvisation that can match the kinds of massive improvisations done on albums like Bitches Brew or Ascension, seriously.

>>73707920

not an argument

>>73707974

>just an opinion

>le everything is subjective meme

kys

>>73708283
>what is the musical offering

Some conductor said if you spend a bit of time listening to Bach it sounds like a sewing machine. Even the guy's hair is stacked with semiquavers

>>73703761
>>73703904
>>73703929
lol
>>73705422
mingus
>>73705885
kill 'em
>>73705886
lol who fucking cares
>>73707010
ha.
>>73707974
ditto
>>73708283
>objective fact
hey someone who actually knows how to use that word correctly

composers now how computers and shit, shit even computers can compose, like yes bach was great but so was the printing press and youre gonna tell me that was the best of all time, no like everything people built and improved upon it and lo and behold now we print with lasers, so again tell me how any past person can be the "master of music" fuck, like that'll never be possible when stuff is always evolving and changing, you autistic fucks neglect to realize that art is not a static form

>>73708283
whatever dude. you're comparing apples to oranges anyways.

wanting to be the guy in the thread that is objectively right because... if that's your thing go for it bro

>>73708437
dude use 'le' in writing, its rather revolting, i hallucinated a self-righteous snort

>>73703761
fpbp

>>73703716
Agreed.

>>73706924
>Composers aren't musicians...
Is this bait?

>>73708481
i dont have anything against you and i dont want to be in a stupid argument. i dont even know you.
i'll just leave now and go and do something that's actually fun.

i actually agree on you on many points... and many people probably do.

its just that you take this thread way too seriously imo.

what's the fun in 'objectively' trying to pin down who's the greatest. its completely and utterly useless as people will always have varying opinions on the subject in music and art in general.

>>73708590
I actually just showed up and have yet to offer any relevant commentary

>>73708661
lol excuse me that's hilarious.

>>73705134
Ah that's why there are many many musicologist who see him as the greatest of all time. Because they have never studied music....

MOz art

>>73708725
>totally cause the best and not because old people with white hair and shitty glasses beat this opinion into them
ever taken an art class anon?

what's the appeal of this classical music bollocks anyway, it's just a load of twinkly twinkly piano shit for ten minutes

serious question

>>73708885
This

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>>73703761
unironically this

>>73708901

classical music has literally used like every instrument ever. there is classical guitar, classical saxophone, electronic classical, etc. there is something to suit everyone's taste, if only you can be motivated to find it (which isn't hard, at all).

>>73708901
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hn9OhRL2qo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9-2jM5RNSs
because it makes me hard anon.

>>73708417
>lol who fucking cares
/mu/ everyone

>>73708891
He said people who have studied music don't think Bach is GOAT, yet many musicologist do. He was simply contradicting himself. Doesn't have anything to do with how the academics are trained. The fact remains his music is truly amazing, if you can't recoginize that than that's too bad for you.

>>73703929
Can't believe you're the only guy to mention grimes, 3rd post best post.

>>73708901
Literally the least boring genre, you'll find that once you get into it other music will become boring.

>>73708912
t. man who has never listened to Bach

>>73708019
>memetrane
>good

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that would be Shostakovich

Is it really fair to label great composers as great musicians?

Hear me out: they are clearly talented in terms of composition, but are and were the greatest composers actually virtuoso musicians, in the sense of being extremely skilled in instrumentation?

>>73709216
But do they say that because they came to that conclusion or is it just so they can appear qualified? Just like how /mu/ memes on an album for a few months like Pet Sounds

>>73709666
hi devil trips
Idk desu, I'd say Youri Egorov is the greatest technically talented musician ever but he was simply a pianist for other composers' music and never wrote his own

>>73709695
they do it because we can analyse the techniques he used to reach a certain sound and realise they are pretty damn innovative

Bach was actually considered dissonant in his day

>>73709666
yes. some of the greatest composers were also the best piano players of their time

chopin, mozart, beethoven, rachmaninov

>>73708590
Not an argument

>>73709716
I'm not questioning that, I'm just saying that I would think there would be room for debate.

>>73703761
lol/10

>>73709760
anyone who saying bach was not influential or good is an idiot, but then again no one is saying that, he was good for his day but then he died and the rest of music happened, theres been so much more music since him

>>73709666

this, in an objective sense jazz is superior to classical because while classical composers can certainly write amazing music, the great jazz artists actually perform everything themselves and focus on improvising so well that their improvisations become compositions (once they are recorded I mean).

it's like they're writing music by PLAYING music.

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>>73710716
to me, that is not objectively better.
its just different.

>>73710716
Bach could improvise fugues.
That's beside the point though, jazz is not superior because of improv. Jazz is build around improv, classical is not. Making a really good composition takes time.

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>>73705422
>for one that's not true

>>73705422
>babby shit compared to what later composers did/do
Notice how very few composers write 6 part fugues after Bach? The only one I can think of is Mozart and I'm not even sure if that's right.

Bach did improvise fugues, it was a common part of being an organist in his time. Froberger and Buxtehude would also be able to do this.

>>73703716
Bach is great, but there are many other composers equal to his level. Palestrina, Lassus, Morales, Schutz, Handel, Froberger.

Most composers around his time had the skills to write counterpoint and write a variety of styles. Bach just stands out because he had to be prolific for his job and he was very consistent with his harmony in his cantatas, making them excellent study material. No time for experimentation when you have to have the cantata ready at the end of the week - with all he parts copied out by hand...

Bach did, of course, experiment, but by the end of his life he was seen as extremely conservative by the younger generation like CPE Bach and the Classical composers. Although he did still have a profound influence on pretty much every composer who lived after Bach.

>>73705134
>>73708283
lol so much cringe

>>73705134
>I took ap music theory in high school hurr
Mendelssohn, Brahms, and the most accomplished composers looked up to him.

>>73708885
>>73708911
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH0RYCieFUM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S44TxEaAsDA
hmmmm....