/classical/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmErwN02fX0

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>>73660161
Boulez!

Pierre "Don't Be a" Boulez

Not the edgelord we wanted, but the edgelord we deserved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS82nF85_gA

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>>73660161
>How do you guys feel about Boulez?

I'm usually fairly supporting when it comes to avantgard artists, but Boulez is, simply put, a monumental piece of shit, a 20th century Lully.
His corruption of governmental funds destined to the Arts (ruining the careers of 4 generations of French composers), the fact that this piece of shit won 17 Grammy Awards (you really blew those opera houses, right?), his absolutely selfish choice of becoming a conductor (even though he was barely competent and costantly took licenses that made no sense in that context). So, bad interpretations, the act of selling out the European avant-gards and cutthroat opportunism that destroyed the careers of the young, and why did he do all this? For nothing, in his last years he recognized that the 19th century was essentially a wasted century, that he was a bully and that his fame lasted just 10 years (after Stochausen came in he had to sell out by conducting... imagine young Boulez seeing his old self conducting the Bolero: truly tragicomic). I'm usually not that harsh, but I'm glad he's dead.

I find no faults in his compositions, which I find enthralling at times, useful (as a composer) always. He failed as a public intellectual and conductor (ending up ruining his cultural context), not as a musician.

tl;dr: Boulez is a worthwhile composer, an absolutely inconsistent director and one of the worst offender to the academic scenes of fine arts in Europe.

>>73661133
I know very little of his life. Did he move away from composition and towards conducting at the realisation of those greater than him?

>>73661133
i don't really feel nearly as negative as you do towards his conducting, a lot of his DG recordings are pure shit, but you can find some pretty interesting stuff earlier on in his career.

>>73661166
he conducted since his youth

iirc he did it to pay the bills since he hated teaching

What's the best recording of the Turangalila-Symphony?

>>73661209
Oh, cheers.

People always bring up his Complete Webern.

>>73661232
This one is pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du6M96E8KyE

It's an experience so I think its cool to see the performers actually playing.

>>73660161
>How do you guys feel about Boulez?
Incredibly important conductor. Meh composer.

>>73661239
i don't like his Webern as much as i do other conductors, but it's not bad.

though for most people it was how they first heard those works and it's convenient since it's a AIO set.

>>73661209
>but you can find some pretty interesting stuff earlier on in his career.
I know, which is why I said, in the end, that he was inconsistent as a conductor.

>>73661166
>Did he move away from composition and towards conducting at the realisation of those greater than him?
Boulez had the entire Euroean avant-gard in his hands, he then lost it to Stockhausen, so he started conducting to mantain his fame and relevance.
He certainly got more traditional later in his life, but I don't think he ever thought in those terms (if anything I can't imagine Boulez having low self-esteem).
He never fully moved away from composition, although he slowed down his creative process considerably after he picked up conducting. He started composing his third sonata in the late '50s. When he died in 2016 it was still unfinished.

>>73661209
his most interesting recordings i feel are his early bbcso stuff. not the best orchestra but it seemed he had real rapport with them.

>>73661648
yeah, for sure. that's where he peaked for me too.

Can anyone go into detail why Boule'z Mahler is bad or terrible?

age

>>73661295
I'm surprised more conductors haven't done in All-in-one given the, at least academic, interest in Webern's work.

>>73660161
What do you guys use for mega? There must be a better way than waiting every time the limit is hit

>>73663249
soulseek

>>73663249
megadownloader bypasses the limits on mega

>>73663305
Seems like it's just for general file sharing, not mega. Is there a good selection of music there?

>>73663313
Thanks m8

>>73663498
that p2p is created by former napster creator, so yes.

Other than Rite, what should I listen to from Stavinsky?

>>73664125
Firebird, Symphony of Psalms, Ebony Concerto, Symphony in C, Violin Concerto.

>>73664125
Everything else. He did not compose that much music, I'm sure you could marathon it in 2-3 days if you really love his music that much.

>>73664218
My personal limit is about 10h for a single composer, I want to get through the 20th century by the end of the summer. I'll look into his entire body of work though.
>>73664181
Thanks.

Also, any rec's on specific recordings/conductors?

>>73664267
i like Firebird by Gergiev and rest by Steavinsky himself.
also Petroushka and Le Sacre du Printemps if you liked Rite.

>>73661133
>>73661166
>>73661209
>>73661239
>>73661281
>>73661295
>>73661321
There's nothing wrong with Boulez.

His recordings are almost always revelations, as with Debussy/Ravel, Mahler, Bartok, Stravinsky, etc.

His compositions (as you stated) are impeccable. Sure he "lost" to Stockhausen but that's because Boulez was still fairly traditional when it came form and structure in European music; he didn't want to go full Cage/Feldman like Stockhausen did. That's not weakness, that's strength of conviction (even if Stocky's pieces from that period are great).

And don't you dare insult IRCAM, it led to tremendous advancements.

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTU7ekTUJ2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUKzVqBQP0c

i fucking love harpsichord

>>73665622
This is a thread for classical you stupid faggot.

Also Pärt.

>>73664536
>His recordings are almost always revelations
no

>>73661133
>19th century

you mean the 20th century?

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So was Mahler actually a gay pedophile or what?

>>73667030
you mean Mozart? yes, he was a degenerate of the highest caliber

>>73667063
Typical Freemason hack

>>73666812
not an argument

favorite mahler 6 recs?

>>73667811
legitimately, Boulez'
fucking hated that piece until I heard his

boulez as a conductor is great. usually he's very precise and clean and reveals all the layers in a way that's really nice and refreshing.

boulez as a composer is interesting because his early stuff is great for being just absolute no shits given serialism and there's a purity and intensity about it, but his later stuff is all exotic and beautiful and dripping with sonorous textures and gamelans and shit and it's just nice to listen to

he's a good person i like him

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>mfw Brucker 7th Adagio

>>73667978
All Bruckner symphonies really
I like his vocal works more

im listening to ...explosante-fixe... right now because of this thread and it's really fucking good music guys, goddamn

>>73668042
You'll probably also like Repons, Anthemes 2, Messagesquisse

>>73664536
>His recordings are almost always revelations
Quirks and gimmicks do nit count as revelation. He had affinity for a very limited pool of composers, which does not help since he interpreted a good chunk of the repertoire.
Also his Ravel is trash, Maurice himself would have hated it.

>Sure he "lost" to Stockhausen but that's because Boulez was still fairly traditional when it came form and structure in European music
>principles
I have not criticized him for having lost to Stockhausen. I've criticized him for having been the worst kind of opportunist, and for having bullied generations of European composers into a compositional philosophy that he himself seen afterwards as a failure, and for having diverted govenrment fundings destined to composers into a single school of thought. Also as soon as he lost control over the avantgards he turned into the worst kind of sellout, revealing that he did not care about those principles in the first place, which is even more obscene. I've got no trouble with his compositions, I just think that he has been one of the worst enemies Art faced in the 20th century.
Again, the principles he held turned him into the 20th century Lully. I certainly can't say that about Feldman, Cage and Stockhausen (composers of which you have implied an inherent inferiority to Boulez), in fact I can only say good thing about their involvment in art management.

>And don't you dare insult IRCAM, it led to tremendous advancements.
I have not insulted it.

>>73668287
>Quirks and gimmicks
What does he do that is "gimmicky?"
>and for having bullied generations of European composers into a compositional philosophy that he himself seen afterwards as a failure
"Generations?" What are you talking about? Integral Serialism was only the fad from 1945-1960. Immediately afterward we see mass exodus towards other forms. He didn't bully "generations" but him and Stockhausen certainly were the top people for that brief 50's period.
>Also as soon as he lost control over the avantgards he turned into the worst kind of sellout
That's Stockhausen, who went to Mikrophonie and similar experiments to ape Cage and Feldman.
>I just think that he has been one of the worst enemies Art faced in the 20th century.
That's objectively false, John Cage was the biggest opponent to Art as an institution.
>I have not insulted it.
Oh, so government funds going towards IRCAM isn't a problem for you? But the compositions that came out of it are a problem? Jesus Christ, you have no understanding of this music do you?

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I've found some scores in my grandma's attic. I've tried to listen to Mahler's 9th, which I can sing from memory from start to finish, and I could follow it for maybe 15 bars.
After that I've just started sectioning the symphony, noting on the scores the main voices and certain rhythms. So far I've traced 2 movements.
Should I keep doing it? Will I get used to it, to the point where I won't need to take notes? Should I drop it and do solfege for years and then come back?

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>>73667978

>mfw

>>73668351
>What does he do that is "gimmicky?"
A far too broad statement, it depends from piece to piece.
>He didn't bully "generations" but him and Stockhausen certainly were the top people for that brief 50's period.
Then you know nothing of how commissioned compositions worked in the '50s and '60s. He bullied generations in the sense that he disqualified from "serious music" anything that was not serialist in nature. In those years, either you composed in that style in Europe, or you were out. People did not just forget how to compose tonal music in the 20th century, simply all the venues that were available were artificially clogged by the avantgards. People like Boulez were the worst offenders in this regard.
And about the usage of the word "bullying": Boulez himself used it to describe his modus operandi of those years.
One does not need to be a reactionary to be disgusted by such behaviours.


>That's Stockhausen, who went to Mikrophonie and similar experiments to ape Cage and Feldman.
I'm talking about his career as a conductor in the second half of his life. I have no problem with the philosophies of any of those composers, nor I have reasons to oppose them. If their example alone is enough to move entire generations of musicians, without the interference of opportunists and manipulators, then I'm fine.

>That's objectively false, John Cage was the biggest opponent to Art as an institution.
John Cage was not a corrupt careerist, ruining other people's lives left and right. His philosophy does not deserve violent opposition.

>Oh, so government funds going towards IRCAM isn't a problem for you? But the compositions that came out of it are a problem?
Nice reasing comprehension. Nowhere I ahve criticized contemporary music of any kind, especially not in such a general manner. Instead I've criticized the corrupt monopoly that was promoted by Boulez on weak ideological/aesthetical claims. This does not mean that I'm criticizing his music or IRCAM.

>>73668507
>A far too broad statement
Nice, couldn't even name one thing
>He bullied generations in the sense that he disqualified from "serious music" anything that was not serialist in nature.
From 1950-1960, that's arguably not even one generation of composers.
>I'm talking about his career as a conductor in the second half of his life.
He wasn't recording Schumann, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, or countless other schmaltzy shit. He only conducted music from that time that was truly formative and forward-thinking like Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, etc.
>John Cage was not a corrupt careerist
But you're talking about someone being an "enemy to Art." Boulez fully believed in artistic institutions; it was Cage who wished to dismantle them.
>Instead I've criticized the corrupt monopoly that was promoted by Boulez on weak ideological/aesthetical claims
In a 10 year span.

Nice, you really are - as 50's Boulez would say - U S E L E S S

>>73664707
>This is how the regular /classical/ poster looks like

who's the Mercury Rev of classical music

I do want to say Boulez's take on Mahler's 9th is maybe one of the most offensively awful things I've ever heard, the opening doesn't even sound like the same piece

i don't find his conducting that gimmicky, he mainly seems concerned with transparency which appeals to me

>>73668619
well no one on earth understood mahler like boulez so of course it wouldn't sound similar to brainlets such as yourself

>>73668619
The Rondo movement is good at least

maybe he was mad about having to do it with Chicago instead of Vienna

>>73668566
not him but boulez did program schumann. he just didn't make records.

as an aside the scenes of goethe he conducted is probably imo my favorite recording of it

>>73668566
you shut your whore mouth about schumann

>>73668721
Programming isn't something you have total control over, there's entire boards in order to control that.

>>73668566
Boulez did conduct Schumann, though. there are more than a few live recordings existing. also, Boulez didn't consider Bruckner formative or forward-thinking, and very rarely conducted him.

>>73668656
Lol if you genuinely think Boulez understood Mahler better than horenstein, mengelberg, Klemperer or Walter (most of whom knew him personally, which I'd doubt you're even aware of) I don't even know what to say to you

>>73668775
>Boulez didn't consider Bruckner formative or forward-thinking, and very rarely conducted him.
He didn't record as much either, isn't the recording of 8 the only one he did?

>>73668774
he certainly had say over what he conducted, and still conducted with enough zest that would suggest that he was at the very least sympathetic to schumann.

>>73668971
I just don't think he was "selling out" just because he conducted more often after a period of writing the greatest music of the 20th century

>>73668566
>Nice, couldn't even name one thing
Again, nice reading comprehension.

>From 1950-1960, that's arguably not even one generation of composers.
That's the seed he planted, which keep growing to this day. It's not like everything returned to a state of equilibrium as soon as he started conducting.

>He wasn't recording Schumann, Smetana, Tchaikovsky, or countless other schmaltzy shit. He only conducted music from that time that was truly formative and forward-thinking like Wagner, Mahler, Bruckner, etc.
Let's burn all the opera houses, but let me conduct the Bolero first.

>But you're talking about someone being an "enemy to Art." Boulez fully believed in artistic institutions; it was Cage who wished to dismantle them.
You're blinded by ideology. Boulez literally ruined lives, Cage was just very skeptical of certain prejudices of art, and he exposed said skepticism in a series of inoffensive essays. Is this an enemy of Art? If lucid arguments are enough to make you tremble, then your convictions are not solid enough. In Boulez's case the intensity and coherence of your convictions was useless, for he would have just cut you out from the art music circuit as soon as he discovered you used a tonal melody once.

>Nice, you really are - as 50's Boulez would say - U S E L E S S
Ah, the same word Boulez literally used to describe his managerial efforts. I got that reference, right?

>>73668653
His trasparency is most of the time incompatible with the pieces he's playing. Listening to him conducting Scriabin is like listening to Gould playing Mozart. Embarassing.
Sure, I'll notice a few more details here and there (you could notice them by reading on a score anyway), but the result will be mediocre at best, surely not something that does justice to the composition itself.

>>73668656
i have mixed feelings on his Mahler. i wouldn't really say he "understood" Mahler in the sense that he conducted him in a vein of authenticity or something, but he had his own individual take on Mahler. iirc, Boulez conceded himself that Mengelberg came closest to Mahler, but he personally refused to conduct him that way. too romantic for him, probably.

i suppose in the sense that Boulez ignores the numerous rubato/ritardando/portamento/etc. markings littered in the scores, he is adhering to Mahler's own idea of, ''what is most important in music is not to be found in the printed notes.'' but Mahler would've likely hated it himself (he was extremely picky when it came to conductors of his music)

anyway, i do like a few of his Mahler recordings, but it's mostly the early ones and it's always live. the DG recordings have terrible engineering -- all you really have to do is compare contemporary live recordings of his Mahler to his DG ones and listen the breadth of difference one finds. the DG recordings are too relaxed, smooth, polished, and the orchestra is overtly miked in that awful uncanny DG sound which doesn't really sound anything like an actual orchestra. artificial x-ray. i know some people prefer that kind of sound, but i don't really think it gives an accurate representation of the conductor, nor does it lay easily on my ears. a lot of his CBS recordings are simply worlds apart - a lot more fire, a lot more energy, and the same precise transparency he was always known for. his Wagner recordings around that time are frankly some of my favorite conducted, and it's even more admirable when you listen to the cries of boos, whistles, and yelling in the Bayreuth audience at its first performances. of course, there are some vocal issues in his Ring cycle, but it's performed with just the right amount of energy, in my opinion.

>>73668936
he has a recording of the 9th with the LA Phil as well, but it's the only other one i'm aware of.

>>73669019
Just name one gimmick, all I'm asking.
>That's the seed he planted, which keep growing to this day
Fucking what? So Max Richter, Nils Frahm, Andrew Norman, and in general an entirely dead Serial scene? That's what Boulez wanted? You're an idiot.
>Let's burn all the opera houses, but let me conduct the Bolero first.
Obviously he softened but that's not "selling out."
>Boulez literally ruined lives
It worked out well for Riley, Reich, and Glass who made careers out of rebelling against his beliefs.

>>73669019
>>73669082
Literally 1960, Ligeti writes Apparitions followed Atmospheres. Stockhausen immediately leaves Serialism. Berio eventually writes Sinfonia. British composers write atonal music, but without serial style.

This is Boulez exerting control? This is his "seed"?

>>73669125
>This is Boulez exerting control? This is his "seed"?
I'm done. Read Boulez and Beyond, and see how Boulez was actively meddling, bullying and polarizing the European academia. It's all well documented.
Again, I'm not talking about ideology here, I'm talking about managerial conduct.

>>73669082
>Just name one gimmick, all I'm asking.
As I've mentioned in another post, Boulez applies the same degree of clarity to most of his performances, wether he's conducting Webern or Scriabin. In Webern case it's optimal, in Scriabin case instead it completely goes against the aesthetic principles of the piece itself. Boulez don't seem to mind, because he's getting his clarity. Gimmick.

>So Max Richter, Nils Frahm, Andrew Norman
Try mentioning some academic composer.

>and in general an entirely dead Serial scene?
Boulez admitted his inherent failure in the last years of his life. There are numerous interviews in which he talks about it.

>That's what Boulez wanted?
As I've said earlier, Boulez was a careerist that dropped his ideals as soon as he could get even more money by conducting music he aborred until a few days later. As long a he mantained said ideals, he enforced them through manipulation, nepotism and downright opportunism.

>Obviously he softened but that's not "selling out."
That's not selling out for Bernstein, it is for Pierre ''It is not enough to deface the Mona Lisa because that does not kill the Mona Lisa. All art of the past must be destroyed'' Boulez.

>>73669352
>Again, I'm not talking about ideology here, I'm talking about managerial conduct.
So he controls, but he doesn't control at all. Got it.
>clarity. Gimmick.
Clarity isn't so much a gimmick as it is an endgoal of any conductor. I find it funny that you call anything by Boulez you don't like a "gimmick" or "selling-out."
>Try mentioning some academic composer.
Hahahaha fucking Norman you idiot.
But sure, Clara Ionnatta has nothing to do with Serialism either.
>Boulez was a careerist that dropped his ideals as soon as he could get even more money
Where's your evidence it was for money and not just abstaining from composition when the principal style (Serialism) was going away?

Let me guess: teenager in music school?

Interesting how the poster seems to think "If they are American or British, they aren't academic."

Jesus Christ the level of pretension!

>>73668782
none of those hacks were as talented as boulez as a conductor or composer and none of them had styles of composition that had mahler's music as their direct antecedent

you're done.

>>73669484
>So he controls, but he doesn't control at all. Got it.
Yeah, I guess the head of the avantgarde and the professional model for everything that came after him was totally not relevant in the development of art music.

>Clarity isn't so much a gimmick as it is an endgoal of any conductor
Sure, if you're a blockhead who can't understand that different composers adhere to different philosophies, which means that different composers need different treatments. Just like cold contrapunctual playing is perfectly usless in Mozart sonatas, perfect clarity simply go beyond the main point of pieces like The Poem of Ecstacy. Apparently you and Boulez can't understand it.

>Hahahaha fucking Norman you idiot.
He does not work in academia, objectively. I'm not trying to defame him, he literally never worked in that context, nor has he infiltrated it through his inflence.

>Where's your evidence it was for money and not just abstaining from composition when the principal style (Serialism) was going away?
So Boulez effort was linked to the academic serial tradition? Nice, this goes against literally everything he said about music, art and composition.

>Let me guess: teenager in music school?

>>73669776
>Sure, if you're a blockhead who can't understand that different composers adhere to different philosophies
Every conductor has good records and bad records, their specialties and their shitties.
I would never listen to JEG outside of 1791, nor Bernstein past 1850.

Nice job evading Clara Ionnatta!

>So Boulez effort was linked to the academic serial tradition?
I'm just confused how you think it's selling out when there's no evidence it was for money. There are many explanations, especially that the 60's saw massive cultural revolution.

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I want Chinese Opera recommendations

>>73670462
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIjpSI0t54s

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at last i truly see

mahler is for boys
bruckner is for men

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Richard Strauss or Johann Strauss II, what's it gonna be /classical/?

>>73671106
waltzes are pretty fucking boring so Richard

>>73660161
Why are there so many generals and then one to Debussy?

>>73671125
because unlike other composers, he can grab em by debussy

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>>73671106
>its a party rocker movement

Also i'm trying to download shit, but mega is stuck at 0%. What's going on.

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>"hey anon, whatcha listening to?"
>Borodin

i like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJh6i-t_I1Q

>>73660161
Does anyone have the Debussy in 320?

Am I a pleb for liking this a lot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVIRcnlRKF8
also are there any pieces similar to vid related

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>have to piss really bad
>20 minutes left in the last movement

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>73671985

cinema music is designed to be "nice" like that

if you want anything comparable to the masters you wont find it because that shit you posted is corporate crap shilled out for big dollars. real classical is pure, ripe with soul and passion.

>>73672036
what about bernard hermann

>>73671985
that's basically mediocre pseudo-"epic" movie soundtrack intended for mass-consuming... JUST LIKE ROMANTICISM you will love every single composers from that era so do yourself a favor

>>73672011
if peein' ya pants is cool consider me miles da- Beethoven

>>73672036
>>73672094
But what do you not like about it?
What if you don't consider it from an intellectual angle and just appreciate it for exciting, normie-tier tonal music?

>>73672122

>What if you don't consider it from an intellectual angle

Maybe classical isn't for you.

>>73672122
Nah I was just memeing i think it's okay though "soundtrack classical" is simply not comparable to actual western art music

>>73672139
But what do you think of Jon Brion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8c7fAAtdLs
[vid related]

I want to be into classical music, what do I listen to first?

>>73672139
You didn't answer my question Mr. Doofis-brain

>>73672214
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2csfvIEO5kU

>>73672217

I was hoping you could read between the lines.

Shit like that is ANTI intellectual and I shan't put my superior mind through such drivel.

>>73672214
Vivaldi and Dvorak were my entry-point the the genre
search for Il Cimento Dell'Armonia E Dell'Inventione and Dvorak 9th Symphony as a starting point

>>73672139
Plenty of classical doesn't need to be intellectualized

>>73672316
if you say so burger bro

>>73672352

intelligent classical is not the same as intellectualized classical

>>73672544
What's the difference?

>>73668287
What do you have against Lully? Genuinely curious.

>>73672611

one is art and the other is pretentious

>>73672544
this is the most pretentious post I've ever seen on /mu/

>>73672718
How long have you been here though?

>>73672742
4 years

>>73672139
I disagree. The pretenses of intellectualism are a cancer on classical music and art in general. Any retard can enjoy the lush sonorities of Mozart or Schubert or Debussy. Because of this high-brow/low-brow mythology we allow this sterilization of classical as something that only the initiate can listen to and appreciate at any level but that's a bunch of bullshit and it allows absolute shit to exist and justify itself at both ends of the spectrum, either railing against this intellectualism (pop music) or indulging the concept of it perfectly (serialism).

>>73671985
No you're autistic. By now everyone has heard this so many times in so many different contexts on youtube that it has started to grate on their nerves.

here's a challenge

Associate the rise and fall of a civilization with musical pieces

>The decisive fight that secures the creation of the civilization

>The golden era of said civilization, where hopes are high and everyone feels unstoppable

>The death of the civilization, where's nothing left but ruins of the past

>>73672849
I'll take that as a compliment

>>73673878
>>73673878
Beethoven
Wagner
Schoenberg

How to listen to BBC R3 Composer of the Week if outside of the UK?

>>73674052
u can listen to them on the bbc website on demand. y duz Steef Reich where a silly creased baseball hate all da time?

>>73667811

>>73673878
>Bach
>Beethoven
>Mendelssohn

>>73674107
Furtwängler by far

>>73673878
>Bach
>Prokofiev
>Debussy

what does classical think of moonlight sonata?

>>73669661
Not him but, both of those statements are terribly false, not even gonna bother either

>>73674107
Sanderling

Thoughts on Per Norgård?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY0F8D6lIkA

>>73674331
normie af

>>73674781
It's still a Beethoven composition. Are you going to dismiss it because of its popularity?

So how do you feed your music acquisition habit these days? For myself, I have forgone physical media and mostly stick to MP3s, unless there's a particular recording I want that's not available that way. Then I look for a CD, preferably a used one, which I rip ASAP and promptly forget.

You?

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>>73674795
At this point its been so contaminated by its cultural context that you pretty much have to write it off.

>>73674843
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laMyjP97H3M

Don't believe I can do that.

>>73674842
Spotify and soulseek. Never collected CDs or vinyl.

>>73674842
I don't even have a CD-Drive on my computer anymore, so it's all digital now.

>>73674842
Lossless albums off RuT, mostly. Keen on starting an LP collection one day.

>>73667811
Yoel Levi, check the second mega folder

>>73674843
>At this point its been so contaminated by its cultural context
what did he mean by this

>>73675014
I think he considers it to be similar to the other anon's use of Requiem for a Dream.

>>73675048
Well I posted the Requiem for a Dream song to ask what /classical/ thought of it. I still don't get what you mean. My "use" of it? i.e., listening to it? Explain please

>>73675072
I meant the anon saying how it was overused.

>>73675048
No Requiem for a dream is thoroughly disposable. Meanwhile its a travesty what pop culture is doing to works like Mozart's 40th or Beethoven's 5th.

>>73675465
Why?

>>73675465
Oh, I completely agree. But they are treated similarly by the public.

>>73675465
>Meanwhile its a travesty what pop culture is doing to works like Mozart's 40th or Beethoven's 5th.
What is pop culture doing to them?

>>73675003
the brass in this recording sound castrated...

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>>73675879
contaminating them with extraneous, often ironic and discordant ideas

>>73675921
Can you give an example?

>>73675967
>Flight of the Valkyries
>immediately think of helicopters

>>73676033
don't get the reference

>>73676082
It's in regards to the film Platoon, directed by Francis Ford Copolla, also famous for directing Goodfellas.

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>>73676113
You forgot to include a picture of him

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>>73670462
https://youtu.be/osm8ral_9aA
Dumb merchantposter

>>73674107
Prêtre's is pretty good.

I always associate Ode to Joy with those awful Sandler-esque comedy montages in those by-the-numbers movies. Pretty unfortunate.

>>73676113
>>73676196
good one guys, funny and stuff

>>73676576
Fucking this, putting non-original music in films should be illegal

>>73675890
That's a problem with that label if the sound is a bit flat, but the performance gets me

>>73677146
i had to put my volume to max and increase my amp a little to properly hear the recording. it was pretty good but not quite fast enough or off the deep end for me. not bad for a new listener recording though

>>73677329
Sure, so you like Sanderling? I also appreciate that recording

>>73673878
Palestrina
Bach
Schnittke

>>73677433
Most unobjectionable answer so far

>>73676393
i wasnt aware pretre made a recording of the 6th. wasnt a fan of his recordings of his other mahler though

gimme your most brutal impactful song /classical/

I'm trying to compare it to other genres

>>73677421
i guess my tastes are out of the norm.

>>73677970
What norm?

>>73661232
>What's the best recording of the Turangalila-Symphony?
I second this

>>73669062
>like listening to Gould playing Mozart. Embarassing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTZ33EVK3Ug

come again , anon?

>>73679210
i like chailly.

>>73669352
>''It is not enough to deface the Mona Lisa because that does not kill the Mona Lisa. All art of the past must be destroyed''
what a fucking kike.

would be nice to have a video of the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3h90HwmsDc

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>I'd like to introduce anon
>hey
>ay
>what kind of music do you like anon?
>classical
>what do you like about it?
>[insert response]

>>73679891
"I like the polyphony"

What's a good book for an overview of classical music's history?

>>73677676
It's on Pippo. I liked it. It's dynamic and full of contrasts.

im surprised... i like suitner's mahler.

>>73680207
There is polyphony in non-classical music too.

>>73679891
"I like complex structure, deep ideas and diversity."

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>>73679891
"I appreciate immensely some of the composers that are close to this tradition."
Checkmate.

>>73680722
out of the few sets of recordings i've heard from him, my impressions were always that he was very talented orchestral trainer but kind of dull interpretation wise

haven't heard his Mahler (or most other repertoire) from him, though. might give it a shot later

>>73680405
Lives of the Great Composers/Pianists by Harold Schonberg. It's a set of short and comprehensive biographies that should make the context of this music more cleare.
Also check the sources, there you'll find every book you may want to read about composers/pianists you want to explore. Of course couple them with actual music listening. If you're reading about Mozart, after you're done listen to some of the compositions you've read about.

If you're interested in the theoretical aspects of it, and if you can read music (absolutely necessary), read The Classical Style and The Romantic Generation by Charles Rosen.
They're still basic divulgation, but it's still a sneak peak into music analysis without having to spend hundreds of hours studying theory, harmony and counterpoint.

>>73680897
my impressions are from the 2 and the 5. i didnt like 1 as much. very swift mahler on pace as kondrashin or the czechs, the orchestra can be rather imprecise and unbalanced and the acoustic is drowning in berlin-classics-reverb but overall a very pleasant surprise.

>>73680834
>There is polyphony in non-classical music too.
no shit. Classical just has more of it.

>>73680895
You appreciate the composers but not the music eh? so you're a fangirl

>>73680942
i wonder if you'd like Abravanel. mixed feelings on that set myself, but i know a few people who are very predisposed to it.

it also has a very smooth sound to the set. after all, the producer was Seymour Solomon and he was the mastermind behind a lot of famous "audiophile" recordings in the 50s/60s, including many Everest recordings

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>music is post-baroque
>it's absolute dogshit

every time

>>73681237
Cute boy

>>73681245
take it back or I'll subpoena your ISP for your real address and come knock your fucking teeth out

Favorite Boulez recordings? Wouldn't mind some recommendations.

>>73681319
His Beethoven 5th

>>73681319
MAHLER 6
MAHLER 6
MAHLER 6
MAHLER 6
MAHLER 6
MAHLER 6

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>>73680999
>You appreciate the composers but not the music eh? so you're a fangirl
"Semantics. It just happens to be that my favourite music has been composed mostly by composers of the classical tradition. The identity and personality of said composers is irrelevant, what is relevant is that they composed that music.
Are you always like this Karen? Do you always have to be such a fucking bitch? Is being right the only thing that matters to you? God, how pathetic."

>>73681319
>Favorite Boulez recordings?
That interview in which he says that his life was a failure.

>>73681237
Stop posting this coalburner.

Are there any modern works at all similar to Bach's Art of Fugue? I imagined something akin to a serial fugue.

>>73681550
stop posting this meme first

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Why Philip Glass is one of the most famous today classical composers? and why in /classical/ anybody takes it seriously?

>>73681918
>Why Philip Glass is one of the most famous today classical composers?
Because he managed to attach the tag "academic" to his music, which is tonal and simple enough for anyone to understand it (and for experts to notice his competence, at least in his first period).

>and why in /classical/ anybody takes it seriously?
What?

>>73660161
Sorry in advance if this is the wrong place to ask.

Does anyone know where I can find good midi files of classical music? Is there a midi eldorado out there somewhere?

>>73681554
dunno about more modern attempts that might have surpassed beethoven's große fuge op. 133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSfcE3HH7dk

>>73681974
Once, one anon asked to /classical/ if his music is worthwhile. Three guys told him that he is just a meme. Is that true or just hate because yes?

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>>73681319

>>73682865
>Is that true or just hate because yes?
It really depends on the piece in question. If those anon have listened to any post-90s composition of his, they may have had some legitimate criticism on their side. Or it may be a ''le simple music sucks lol'' meme.

>>73681319
The complete works of Anton Webern

>>73682317

http://www.suzumidi.com/eng/midifiles.htm

enjoy

>>73679891
>It pleases me

What should I listen to by janacek?

>>73681918
Because he completely changed the formulas of classical and popular musics by offering a new way to compose and perform classical music.
>>73682865
Immature people hate the simplicity of his music but most of it is quite good.

>>73683256
Nursery Rhymes
Sinfonietta
From the House of the Dead
Glagolitic Mass
On the Overgrown Path
In the mists
Piano Sonata
The Diary of One Who Disappeared
String Quartet Nos. 1-2

>>73683550
thanks

>>73681554
>>73682398
Hindemith ludus tonalis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvqxEpvMVlM

Shostakovich: 24 Preludes and Fugues,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVhawRakww

>>73683156
Thanks! This is great

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This was made in 2011 but stylistically it's "Classical"

Does it belong in this thread? its incredible btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvZAIIKManc

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Stravinsky --> Schoenberg --> Varese --> Xenakis --> Stockhausen --> Ferneyhough --> _______???

Pls no Adesfags

>>73684982
>its incredible btw
lol

>>73685564
>Pls no Adesfags
What did he mean by this?

>>73685564
____??? = Charles Ives

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGpdeqknso4
Haydn > Mofart

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7Wz8yDltO4

>>73686968
>doesn't know that salieri fucked the wife of mozart
oh boy, here we go again

what are some songs similar to gymnopdie no.1?

>>73681207
listened to the 5, a little too relaxed. acoustic isnt bad though

>>73687466
gymnopdie no.2

>>73684982
>but stylistically it's "Classical"
what did he mean by this?

Any good instructional classical music youtube channels? I want to learn how to properly understand and critique classical music.

>>73687466
In a Landfill, John Cage :^)

>>73688538
dunno about channels, have some older tv and radio formats
leonard bernstein
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6DY3I6m2_i8B3Wb3rxPNxXEPavny4QdD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZJ1Tgf4JL8&list=PL57D6562967207B2F
deryck cooke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpzQAr0YgiI
hans keller
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6VxIIJWlyU

>>73688538
>>73689086
There's also a good book by Aaron Copland, how to listen to music I believe is the title. Short and very accessible to those unfamiliar with theory or the Canon.

>>73687475
Agreed. I like the 2nd a bit more, but don't have any strong opinions about the set one way or another.

Kinda off-topic but what do you guys think of Gershwin?

What does /classical/ think of Jonny Greenwood from Radiohead's compositions? He did the soundtrack for the Norwegian Wood movie.

>>73690807
He's OK but definitely a second-rate version of his inspirations.

but hey that's fine, more music isn't a problem and as long as we have someone like that influencing Radiohead's music I'm good for that.

>>73681237
>baroquefag
>whoring for (You)s

every. single. time.

eat shit, faggot. shouldn't you be off wanking about trills or something? you and that animeposter (likely the same person, actually) need to fuck right on off and take your garbage music with you if we're to have any meaningful discussion in this /classical/. 20th century gets a lot of flack for being too """academic""" but it's the early music fags that are the most pretentious of all. no one can seriously claim that that repetitive, simplistic drivel with figurations and harmony so basic a grade schooler could have written it and you'd be unable to tell otherwise possesses any worthwhile qualities whatsoever (apart from being incredibly easy to listen to and grasp which is only a plus if you're a brainlet like the typical baroqueshitter) other than helping other, more intelligent composers down the line by crafting a groundwork for them to actually MAKE ART with. Bach may be the foundation but Debussy is the entire cathedral and you'd have to be some fucking faggot to sit around looking at the floor all day.

>>73689559
Gershwin's good but honestly most of his music doesn't have a lot of substance. Just very nice.
Catfish Row is great though.

>>73691769
>no one can seriously claim that that repetitive, simplistic drivel with figurations and harmony so basic a grade schooler could have written it and you'd be unable to tell otherwise possesses any worthwhile qualities whatsoever (apart from being incredibly easy to listen to and grasp which is only a plus if you're a brainlet like the typical baroqueshitter)
Can you give some examples?

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>"I listen to Bach"

>>73681237
Stop posting this filthy coalburner.

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>>73691992
Delede dis!

>>73691946
Pretty much every baroque composer uses the same simplistic melodies and choir progressions, bach is the only exception.
Most compositions by handel sound like that joke piece mozart composed making fun of the uninspired formulatic compositions of lesser composers

Not the poster you replied to

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>tfw listening to the Bruckner symphonies

>>73692386
Which joke piece is that?

>>73685564
What is this suppose to signify?

>>73685564
This isn't even a proper chronology and there is no proper chronology between these composers.

>>73692386
>Most compositions by handel sound like that joke piece mozart composed making fun of the uninspired formulatic compositions of lesser composers
What Mozart joke piece? I like Handel

>>73682925
his debussy and ravel are so well conducted. he brings the most out of those scores of nearly any conductor ive heard

>>73692786
https://youtu.be/nx-N9I1eZyM?t=24
He wasn't dissing Handel, but the composition students he had.

>>73692822
>tfw you want to impress your teacher, Mozart, but he just mocks you.

have you ever had a piece of music give you an erection?

what was her name, /classical/?

>>73692851
hahaha that's actually really funny to think about
>surely Herr Mozart will love this new piece, it's inspired by a Concerto Grosso by Handel I found
>here you are sir
>topkek m8 look at all this unison rhythms and lazy modulations, ur trash

>>73692866
Tragic for both.
Student wants to be respected.
Mozart wants a successor.

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>>73692822
>tfw I genuinely like the first movement and don't see anything wrong with it

>>73692923
It's actually pretty fun music but the problems he's pointing out are:
>unison F with no other voices
>followed by instant switch to Dominant
>in addition it's just a pulse of 3, same-pitched quarter notes as your melody? trash
>all of the chord progression happens in bar 3
>ridiculous, pointless triplets that just move down stepwise with no real purpose
>unprepared tonicization that just sounds weird

that's the first piece of the score

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>>73692923
>tfw this is your favorite Mozart even though you know what's wrong with it because you're a total degenerate avant-pleb with the attention span of a flea

>>73693013
at least you admit it. Not like other Mozart underraters

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>>73692822
Lol so many romantic conventions BTFO in this 19 minute piece.

stop posting frogs

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>>73693105
This one's on the house

>>73692990
How do you get to this point where you can hear a piece and point all this out?

t. Pleb (pl3as3 no disdain 4 me)

Who is a good contralto for Rosina?
Also who is a good tenor at all?

>>73660161
>>Debussy. There is an accompanying chart, available on request.
does this really exist? I would like it please

>>73668575
He's a mature man

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>>73692522
>>73692552

It is a chronology of most significant composers of the 20th century, implying bartok, hindemith, nono, webern, prokofiev, ives, messiaen are lesser composers. Inb4 muh mahler --> belongs to the 19th century

Who is next great composer after them?

>>73694148
>It is a chronology of most significant composers of the 20th century
Webern is far more significant than Varese and Xenakis.
Also having no Cage/Feldman displays the fact you get all your historical context from /classical/ memes because they were also much more important than Xenakis and Ferneyhough.

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Francisco Guerrero Marín was so great...

>>73694502
RYM meme but yeah pretty interesting composer

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Feldman is the only composer I can stand for more than twenty minutes.

I omitted cage because although he was a radical and stylistic innovator his music isnt very listenable orbwell composed, unlike the ones I mentioned who are both. Feldman developed an idea and rehashed it over and iver again rather tirelessly, much like penderecki and glass, I would rate merzbow above feldmeme as a composer. Upon reconsideration I will include webern into the list.

The question remains who is the greatest in the recent past.

>>73695270
>his music isnt very listenable orbwell composed
Sonatas and Interludes
Concert for Piano and Orchestra
HPSCHD
Four^2
In a Landscape
>The question remains who is the greatest in the recent past.
I mean I think the most inventive modern composer might be Michael Gordon.

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>>73695270
>The question remains who is the greatest in the recent past.

It's Feldman. Deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DbByZJ1dbY

How come Feldman admirers sperg out when someone says they don't like him?

>>73696007
Because he is one of the most important composers of the 20thC (regarding Indeterminacy) but /classical/ thinks that because edgelords like him that makes him bad

>>73692990
Can I still enjoy classical if I have no idea what any of this meant?

>>73696765
Yes.

>>73696226
>but /classical/ thinks that because edgelords like him that makes him bad
edgelords like him? do you mean hipsters that like Merzbow or what?
I'm a fan of Morton Feldman, and think he's far better than the typical names brought up for 20th c. composers (e.g., Reich, Glass).

>>73697161
what I'm asking is what you mean by edgelords because I usually see it used to refer to /pol/acks. Also, not hating on anyone who likes Merzbow, though that comment might look like it.

This piece is about sending black people back to Africa. Feldman caught a lot of flack for it when it came out, but he never compromised on his principles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOc8qG8sXjw

>>73696765
Of course, it's just another layer to enjoy. It's good to know if you enjoy analyzing things and how they work rather than just enjoying their face value

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>tfw Telemann never fails to impress
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1gTdVjgew

>>73696226
>one of the most important composers of the 20thC (regarding Indeterminacy)
so not very important at all?

>>73685564
Where is Penderecki?
Why is Ferneyhough even in there?
Why is Varese even in there?
Where is Bartok?

Has anyone else gone to a San Fransisco Symphony, it was literally too pseud to comprehend. I paid money to see it and I got my own asshole ripped out and shown to me on a platter.

>>73690807
His music on PTA's last two films has been amazing. Maybe its because I associate it with the emotions of the film but tracks like Amethyst and Adrian Prussia are wonderful to me. At any rate, I feel they perfectly fit the film

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>>73691992
>who is your favorite composer
>bach

>>73698143
>I got my own asshole ripped out and shown to me on a platter
>San Fransisco [sic]
seems fitting, given that it's probably the grids/sodomite capital of the world ;)

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>>73681237
>doesnt have ear for music
>shit posts about it

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>>73698181
>who is your favorite composer
>schubert

wut d0z /clazzical/ tink dov diz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2KvQuLJspY

>>73698216
more like schitbert haha

>>73697319
He probably means RYM classical "experts"

>>73698216
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahhahahahahahahaha1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 fucking schubert m8 why I oughta!

>>73660266
I could of done this when I was six what the fuck

stop what you're doing and listen to this whole thing, now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bW2Q1i5Yik

>>73698184
It was fitting that I had to take the train full of fucking dykes and faggots to get to this piece of shit.

>>73698255
o rly?

>>73698277
Get a check-up m8, they might have pozzed you

>>73698277
ok anon what was the performance and y did it suck so much?

>>73698324
I threw away the program because it was smite and I left at intermission basically was 1900s American music but everyone but Gershwin and extremely experimental and shitty then on top you had some white haired cuck that was conducting the whole thing which was the biggest pseud of them all.

>>73698378
>you had some white haired cuck that was conducting the whole thing which was the biggest pseud of them all.
Tilson Thomas?

Best place to start with Bruckner's symphonies?

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>>73698378
>1900s American music

>>73686968
They don't call him Joseph "where you be" Haydn for nothing. He be underrated.

>>73698438
8

>>73698527
thanks homie I'm on it

>>73686968
that's one short symphony

If science fiction is the dumb man's philosophy,
is prog the dumb man's classical? Discuss.

>>73698566
How else could he have written 106 symphonies?

>>73698232
>>73698240
Further proof Schubert is underrated.

Can you guys give me recs for guitar pieces?