Will rock, ever be as sophisticated and deep as classical music?

>>73358067
*will rock, hip hop and EDM

The best rock albums are infinitely deeper than any classical.

will classical music ever be as sophisticated and deep as this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG6cdD_osNU

>>73358067
>Will rock, ever be as sophisticated and deep as classical music?

No

>>73358082
kek

What is Rock in Opposition?

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>>73358067
*ahem*

>>73358124
never really bothered with kiss but this is fun as fuck

any kiss rec's lads?

>>73359206
I guess you really like the c major scale

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>>73358067
*ahem*

>>73358067
Yes. It's called Metal and no one likes it apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAC38b4gUi8

>>73358067
classical music is pretty face value desu

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>>73358067
*ahem*

>>73358067
Will? ... I think you mean Bill

Bruford that is

>>73359051
There's nothing deep about classical. Sorry to break the news to you, chum. I feel second hand embarrassment for all you posers who listen to classical thinking it makes you superior.

I'm a music conservatory student and have completes multiple symphonies by the way.

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>>73359366
>dude Harry Potter is obviously as good as the entire Shakespeare's ouvre
>muh objective truths in art

>>73359448
Shakespeare might think so because they'd be new and groundbreaking to him

>>73359504
You're a retard.
Here's an advice: never trust your intuitions when it comes to art. You're obviously too cluelss and shallow to benefit from what your shitty brain may have thought.

>>73359366
there are few really deep rock albums, i agree. saying that beethoven's grosse fugue, schubert's string quintet, the many bach compositions are nothing but ''music to feel superior'' is the most absurd i've ever read in this autistic imageboard

>>73359589
>Beethoven
>Bach

The Classical period was pretty well known for its overall lack of any in depth emotion. If you're looking for "deep" music, you'll want to dig into the Romantic period.

>>73359448
Not the same at all. I think you'd really struggle to describe how any classical compositions are deep considering most just plagiarize stories and poems of literary greats. Bach may be the closest to being deep. Also, you added that implication that music is objective which classical posers always do as it justifies their listening. It seems you don't actually enjoy classical, rather, you use it as a fashion statement. This is probably why me, as an actual classically trained musician and composer, have hurt you so much by breaking your crystal palace.

>>73359555
And here, you're replying to someone that isn't me. Here's an advice: don't attach your persona to music so much and it won't hurt as much when someone offends you.

>>73359589
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying many classical listeners on here clearly care more about how it makes them appear than the actual content of the music.

>>73359670
and isn't schubert a romancist composer? retard

>>73359706
Point out where I quoted Schubert.

>>73359670
>implying Beethoven isn't Romantic and Bach isn't Baroque
>implying Romanticism isn't cancer and Serialism was the chemo

>>73358067
A lot of rock music is sophisticated, but a lot rejects the need for sophistication entirely, and I wouldn't say that's a bad thing. Deep is a stupid word and I never know what people mean when they use it.

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*ahem*

>>73358067
The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.

>>73359727
where?

>>73358067
How do you even measure how deep a piece of music is? Serious question.

>>73359780
thanks for saying some truths

>>73359803
How many times you quote it while walking somewhere

>>73359803
if you have brain and heart you'll realise

>>73359760
>Beethoven is romantic
ebin

Baroque wasn't known for its presence of emotion either.

>>73359555
woooah there, I said "might", he also might not, calm ur nips friend

>>73359774
I think it has to do with the production

>>73359706
His music especially, and Beethoven's, were the turning point between classical and romantic, they both part of both eras.

>>73359693
>That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying many classical listeners on here clearly care more about how it makes them appear than the actual content of the music.

they are just like you, when says about ''lack of depth in classical compositions''

>>73359858
You know what's funny? I'm not a classically trained musician or conservatory student. I just started posting about that stuff like I knew what I was talking about

I was only pretending!

>>73359670
>If you're looking for "deep" music, you'll want to dig into the Romantic period.
The word you're looking for is ''emotional'', not deep. If anything the Romantic era was maybe the least deep period in our canon. The existential condition is still never taken into consideration, and at the same time they don't really refer to any higher idea that may broaden their scope.
With Bach you hear impossibly sophisticated religious music, with a knack for contemplational tones. With Mozart you can experience one more time a glimmer of the 17th century European essence. With Chopin you just get an impression of how Chopin felt while composing.

It's not a fault per-se, but I would not elevate these tendencies as the ''deepest'' expressions in Western music.

>>73359760
>Beethoven is romantic
Comfirmed for never having studied any Beethoven's score.

>>73359706
Schubert was still a essentially classic composer. His main sources of inspiration were Haydn and Mozart, even Beethoven was too ''out there'' for him.

>hurr durr classical is so deep

no it's not. It's just music you fruitcake

>>73360035
either being a classically trained musician/conservatory student or not, i just realised how fucking retarded you are since the beginning

>>73360127
another lack of any spark of intelligence

>>73359693
>I think you'd really struggle to describe how any classical compositions are deep considering most just plagiarize stories and poems of literary greats.
Probably the dumbest criticism on classical music I've ever read on /mu/. Regardless, operatic and program music are only a niche in classical music. This criticism, for example, does not touch any instrumental piece ever composed.

>It seems you don't actually enjoy classical, rather, you use it as a fashion statement.
Defending the value of classical music is now a ''fashion'' statement?

>This is probably why me, as an actual classically trained musician and composer, have hurt you so much by breaking your crystal palace.
I'm a trained composer and have studied formally piano since I was 5. Is this an argument?

>>73360112
In the context of deep that has been used, deep is synonymous with emotional.

deep
dēp/
(of an emotion or feeling) intensely felt.

>>73360176
I've always associated the word deep with the concept of trascendence, contemplation and mistery. Emotions seen in the way Chopin saw the appear to me as superficial, far from the essence.

>>73360112
late classic and early romantic composer. and he worshiped beethoven more than haydn and mozart

Bach is super groovy. This negro had duende

>>73360132
how fucking retarded
how fucking retarded
how fucking retarded
how fucking retarded
how fucking retarded

how1
hou/
adverb
1. in what way or manner; by what means.
"how does it work?"
2. used to ask about the condition or quality of something.
"how was your vacation?"

fuck·ing
ˈfəkiNG/
adjective & adverb vulgar slang
used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.

re·tard·ed
rəˈtärdəd/
adjective
dated offensive
less advanced in mental, physical, or social development than is usual for one's age.
informal offensive
very foolish or stupid.
"in retrospect, it was a totally retarded idea"

>>73360538
sorry, i'm not a native speaker, could you please be more clear about my mistake?

>>73360176
In that case, depth is entirely subjective so this whole conversation is just pointless

>>73358067
by nature no

>>73359206
>I-VI-IV-V

em so smart i like classical me music so complex

this is why nobody likes classical music, because of edgy 16 year olds pretending to be smart

back off bucko

>>73360290
He really didn't, and borrowed bery little from his music (while, on the contrary, he was costantly quoting Mozart and Haydn). I guess you're not that familiar with Schubert's music.

>>73359693

>It seems you don't actually enjoy classical, rather, you use it as a fashion statement.

lmao funniest thing i've read all day.

the top 1% of classical is OBJECTIVELY BETTER than the top 1% of all other genres.

>>73358067

Frank Zappa is already way more "sophisticated" than classical music, basically because he called most pre-20th century composers on their shit.

>>73363302
>calling dead people on their shit

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>this thread

Embarrassing. What a shithole. Anyway, there's still time to save yourselves, children. Accept Daddy as the greatest musician of all time and you will be spared.

The problem is that rock music, by definition, requires a certain minimum of primal energy/simplicity/primitiveness. Sure, you can push the envelope toward complexity, sophistication, and grandiosity, but at some point the art you are making stops being rock. There's no rule that says simple things can't be deep, although even thematically-speaking, rock requires a bare minimum of libidinal energy/references to sex. "Rock," after all, was originally a euphemism for "fuck." So in general rock has certain constraints that classical doesn't.

friendly reminder that compositional depth does not necessarily precede the existence of artistic merit. almost all music is hideously shallow--classical, rock, jazz, etc. most music has no artistic worth
>>73363262
the top 1% of any major art form is going to be the equal of any other
there's a limit to the degree of infectiousness and the quality of the message imparted into the observer

I mean, you can have rock that doesn't use standard rock instruments, and you can have rock that isn't about sex. You can have rock that uses odd time signatures, and you can have rock with long thematically rich movements.

If you have rock that does all these things at once, though, then it's probably not rock. And if depth bears any relation to complexity or intellectual difficulty, then that's a handicap.

>>73362441
well, i admire a lot his string quintet and quartet no. 14.
prove me that beethoven wasn't a influence to schubert, please.

>>73359670
classical refers to art music of all music, not limited to the Classical period

>The Classical period was pretty well known for its overall lack of any in depth emotion
Known among plebs, maybe.

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Fusion jazz will be good as orchestral, Idm can be as good as orchestral, psybient/psychill can be as good as complicated as orchestral. Open your genre horizons.

>>73359670
Bach was baroque and Beethoven early romantic.... if you think Bach doesn't have depth in emotion then you have obviously never listened to any of Bachs 200+ canatas.

>>73359823
Baroque is just more subtle about it.

>>73364814
>orchestral
>orchestral
>orchestral
Why do I feel like you have no idea what you're talking about?

>>73365055
why do I have a feeling that you're a condescending snob?

>>73361355
>I'm not going to listen to classical because this edgy 16 thinks he is smarter because of it.... damn.

>>73365103
Why is he a snob for pointing out your lack of understanding? Especially since you claim to know how complicated classical music is.

>>73359206
Having to use lyrics at all to create depth is basically cheating.

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excuse me?

>>73365159
I posted one thing, and you can assume i lack understanding because of mistype... quick condescending judgement usually come from snobs.

>>73365338
You didn't make a typo, no one in the classical community refers to classical as orchesteral. That's why he called you out.

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>>73358067
yes, it happened in 1991 with like six masterpieces

>>73363302
Is this a joke?

>>73365338

>Posts retarded image
>Makes retarded post

Yep, classic frogposter

>>73358067
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgDwkSlCwHw

>>73358067
>what is Sgt. Pepper?

What I like is objectively better than what you like. Why? Because I like the best things. Why are they the best? Because I like them and what I like is objectively better than what you like.

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>>73359670
>The Classical period was pretty well known for its overall lack of any in depth emotion
Ya by plebs.

>>73358067
no, but that's not the point of it though

>>73358082
gr8 b8