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/classical/

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Thread replies: 173
Thread images: 27

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Edición español.
Discuten sobre la música clásica de España o de otro país al nacionalidad español.
>>
>inb4 how do I into classical
>General Folder #1. Renaissance up to 20th century/modern classical. Also contains a folder of live recordings/recitals by some outstanding performers.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
>General Folder #2. Mostly Romantic up to 20th century/modern, but also includes recordings of music by Bach, Mozart and others
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
>General Folder #3. Mostly 20th century/modern with other assorted bits and pieces
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
>General Folder #4. Renaissance up to early/mid-20th century. Also contains a folder of Scarlatti sonate and another live recording/recital folder.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
>General Folder #5. Renaissance up to late 19th century
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
>General Folder #6. Very eclectic mix
https://mega.co.nz/#F!O8pj1ZiL!mAfQOneAAMlDlrgkqvzfEg
>General Folder #7. Too lazy to write up a description for this, but it has a little of everything
https://mega.nz/#F!pWR0zABY!xCwF1rEfXiyEy5HuhTDP0Q
>General Folder #8. The anon who made this loves the yellow piss of DG on his face. Also there's some other stuff in here.
https://mega.nz/#F!DlRSjQaS!SzxR-CUyK4AYPknI1LYgdg
>Renaissance Folder #1. Mass settings
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
>Renaissance Folder #2. Motets and madrigals (plus Leiden choirbooks)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
>Debussy. There is an accompanying chart, available on request.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
>Opera Folder. Contains recorded video productions of about 10 well-known operas, with a bias towards late Romantic
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw
>Random assortment of books on music theory and composition, music history etc.
https://mega.nz/#F!HsAVXT5C!AoFKwCXr4PJnrNg5KzDJjw
>>
Rafael orozco - noches en los jardines de España is the only one I know
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh36PaE-Pf0&index=6&list=LLom9RshHgSWptNe0YRWmOkQ
>>
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Revueltas underrated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQoYY5Cv8o
>>
>>73011235
de Falla is good. Try some stuff by Isaac Albéniz too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT6GdusNZBo
>>
>>73011168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AX8oyuFQFs
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkTOsxX3D8I

wtf i hate granados now
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABm7nMVyNh4
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1HlSymdnB8
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p448Ji26FKw

Julian carrillo is underrated
>>
>>73011326
I love Mexican composers. Revueltas, Chávez, the list goes on...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zozW-UmloRI
>>
Petzold
>>
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Why was it claimed that he played without passion?

Jealously?
>>
>>73011168
Zarzuela
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsFcRF0aK14
>>
>when the recording doesn't even have a discogs page
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkT4w-X9VHA
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rsb7dT6sEM
>>
>>73013563
because if you play things fast and have a high level of technicality then you're emotionless

or something
>>
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Did you ever hear the tragedy of Herr Bach the Diatonic? I thought not. It’s not a story the Italians would tell you. It’s a contrapunctual legend. Herr Bach was a composer from Lipzig, so creative and so wise he could use simple themes to create mastodontic musical structures… He had such a knowledge of harmony and counterpoint that he could even keep his audiences from not believing in God. The fugal method of composition is a pathway to many atmospheres some consider to be propedeutic to contemplation. He became so knowledgable… the only thing he was concerned with was his family and his music, and he managed to enjoy their presence for a while, until he died in agony for a botched XIX century eye surgery. Yeah, imagine how messy that was. Unfortunately, he taught his sons everything he knew, then they went on to write superficial galant minuets for Austrian and German aristocrats. Ironic. He could save others' music from scorn, but not his own.
>>
>>73015949
CPE did nothing wrong
>>
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Fuck it, I'm going to becime a composer while following the practical examples and advices of Wagner and Beethoven.

I'll work all day long on my art, and I'll be cutthroat when it comes to business, the promotion of my music and my reputation, which is now even more necessary for the composer, given complete lack of support for this professional figure. Art before everything else.

I'm set.
>>
Spanish music has been going downhill ever since Victoria died
>>
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>haha you like classical music anon? isn't it like boring and stuff? lol
>>
>>73016217
>plays clair de lune
>all get simultaneously wet
>>
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>>73016234
While YOU spend TIME learning to play the PIANO, CHAD strums 2 chords on his GUITAR in between having SEX with your CRUSH
>>
>>73016249
>tfw this is actually how music industry works
>>
>move to a new city
>check out for concerts
>conservatory students are going to play Beethoven's op 56
>not that relevant, but I still go see it
>the orchestra comes in
>they're all white
>the 3 soloists come in
>they're all Chinese

Damn.
>>
>>73016526
lul
>>
>>73016217
Not a single one of you is higher than a 6/10. Fucking swedish working class girls. Disgusting tramps caked up in shitty makeup.
>>
Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwwCWeRjZak
>>
>>73017863
Probably all coalburners as well.
>>
lads what do you think of finnissy?
>>
Rameau.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKDK_hR6x0
>>
Romanticism > Modern > Baroque > Classical
>>
>>73018610
You couldn't be more pleb if you tried.
>>
>>73018610
Renaissance > Romanticism > Modern > Baroque > Classical
>>
>>73018629
t. mozartfag
>>
>>73018610
Other way around anon.
>>
>>73018610
>>73018649
Romanticism > Classical > Baroque > Modern > Renaissance
>>
Medival > Baroque > Classical > Early Romanticism > Renaissance > Late Romanticsm > Early Modern > Shit > Powergap > Pleb Music > More Shit > Powergap > Late Modern & Post-Modern > John Cage
>>
Ancient Egyptian > Ancient Greek > Medieval > Baroque > Classical > Early Romanticism > Renaissance > Late Romanticsm > Young Thug > Early Modern > Shit > Powergap > Pleb Music > Ancient Roman > More Shit > Powergap > Late Modern & Post-Modern > Petzold
>>
Rock > classical
>>
Paganini

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9rKH2T0uPs
>>
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>>73019406
>>
Stolzel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on5DHcGySik
>>
Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JQm5aSjX6g
>>
hi /classical/

theres a record fair here tomorrow and theres always thousands and thousands of super cheap records, and i normally just pick a bunch of classical stuff because it's dirt cheap and normally very high quality and it's impossible to find classical records elsewhere here

anything i should look out for?

i'm a pretty big classical noob but from what I've got I mostly really like Beethoven/Shostakovich/Dvorak symphonies, what's in that vein?

also what non-symphonic things should i look for? I really am super clueless when it comes to that
>>
>>73020062
>what non-symphonic things should i look for?
Beethoven - Requiem
Beethoven - Fur Elise
Dvorak - Canon In D
Shostakovich - Piano Concerto No. 2 "Emperor"
Vivaldi - 4 seasons
>>
i dont get why classical gets a bad name

everybody says it's boring but it's literally the least boring of all music, you can get so much out of just one piece especially if you're marginally interested or knowledgeable about theory
>>
>>73020482
literally because it's not popular, and you don't fit in if you listen to something that's not popular.
>>
>>73020482
It is boring in the sense that it isn't cheap entertainment made for pop culture consumers.
>>
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Anyone have any suggestions for decadent composers?
https://www.librarything.com/topic/87904
This guys suggests these. Which are pretty cool.
>>
All Mexicans:

Silvestre Revueltas - Sensemaya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJxd0nIY1oA

Manuel Maria Ponce - Sonatas (played by Segovia)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK3Jt44-6UI

Carlos Chavez - Symphony No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoq4KOHUEU

Blas Galindo - Sones de Mariachi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdKAlGlNZd0

Daniel Catan - Florencia en el Amazonas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z_W8nF8P7M

Eduardo Hernández Moncada - Costeña
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qreAZ0Q2C-w

Cenobio Hernandez - Decepciones del Alma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aX4iqovUj8

Quirino Mendoza y Cortés - Cielito Lindo (original composition where every other version is derived from)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=natwdmuakZA

Arturo Marquez - Danzon No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkFHMJ28izM

Macedonio Alcalá Prieto - Dioz Nunca Muere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztRuj3FfyI4

Candelario Huízar García de la Cadena - Symphony No. 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H98ojSip4nE

Salvador Contreras Sanchez - Danza Negra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDudkE9Dr7U

Julián Carrillo Trujillo (microtonal composer, very interesting) - Cromometrofonía
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF50so3nWJk

Carlos Jiménez Mabarak - Symphony No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuSIKIRP0a4

Luis Herrera de la Fuente - Fronteras
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=latesJ1XDak

Mario Lavista - Quotations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbnYRvik-nk

Héctor Quintanar Prieto - Small Overture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vA9fiOj1Y

Manuel Enrique Salazar - Movil I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VoriySAyc4
>>
>>73021688
Cont:

José Pablo Moncayo García - Huapango
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07-kvAU85wM

Jose Rolon - Danzas Indigenas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf8SPktJrBE

Joaquin Gutiérrez Heras - Postludio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLyCjIXOx2E

Felipe de Jesús Villanueva Gutiérrez - Vals Poetico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkOL0lBavL8

José Juventino Policarpo Rosas Cadenas - Sobre Las Olas (Over The Waves, which everyone and their fucking grandmum knows)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=090zNqcqZF4

Federico Ibarra Groth - Sonata No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxUtg05GQtY

Enrico Chapela - Magnetar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rtBUM9eOAQ

Ricardo Castro - Cello Concerto in C minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfZQG6EW94s

Gustavo Ernesto Campa - Melody for Violin & Orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7rMpTEdbfs

Julio Ituarte - Ecos de Mexico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHMo9RTkV60

Melesio Morales - Nezahuacoyotl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdHnbnyuebY

Guadalupe Olmedo - Segunda Rêverie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjBB2BCGuU8

Tomas Leon - Laura (Only piece I've found of his)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YNQIGAoeEs

José Damián Mariano Elízaga - Ultimas Variaciones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az24pQQQaLk

Juan García Esquivel - Dark Eyes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMr7oAACyqw

Gonzalo Curiel Barba - Llevame
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkT1x-IUfhU

(getting colonial here)
Juan de Lienas - Lamentatio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9BfO4g1F3A

Manuel Arenzana - Te Deum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-LueIRsP7M

Manuel de Zumaya - Celebren, publiquen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWL7VAwQtKM
>>
>>73020062
>Beethoven/Shostakovich/Dvorak symphonies
Schubert's last two symphonies, any Borodin, Dvorak's cello concerto, any Mahler symphony, Prokofiev's 2nd or 3rd piano concerto
>>
Give me some good opera albums bitch
>>
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she gimme the /suk/
>>
>>73019393
Ancient Greek > Ancient Egyptian*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ByHuavGIQ
>>
Wagner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjIX9mwcyPE
>>
Petzold
>>
>>73022090
>albums

you have to go back
>>
Petzold
>>
Post Transcriptions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5x2ucMVGvA
>>
>>73023439
are not recordsing on albums
>>
Fandango by padre soler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mRCBIDEcc4
>>
>>73011168
>Discuten sobre la música clásica de España o de otro país al nacionalidad español.
Awful translation.
>>
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>>73025973
1 year of introductory Spanish in college, it was the best I could do.
>>
>>73011168
Albeniz's Iberia is literally the pinnacle of Spanish musicianship.

My favorite piece is El Albaicín.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_jUWqYsNzw
>>
The part at 12:44 in this piece reminds me a lot of a piece from the legend of zelda soundtrack, perhaps twilight princess. Does anyone know what piece of the soundtrack that might be?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShXNe4kc6M8
>>
Are Chopin's Nocturnes in sonata form?
>>
>>73025939
this is the baroque equivalent of shred videos
>>
Who's even good in Spanish music anyways? There's Alicia de Larrocha, and MTT apparently has a disc of Spanish music that probably isn't that bad (haven't listened to it though.)
>>
What is a musicianship class?
>>
>>73026814

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce7z-z2xIKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbkILM0x_z4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4G-WTzptag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpbScLRIGU8
>>
>>73026924
sightsinging and dictation
it's easier than it sounds
>>
>>73027639
do i have to play infront of the class for projects or someshit? i might fuck that up
>>
>>73027713
You might idk.
Trust me it sounds hard but with enough practice you'll get it down pat.
>>
>>73027811
how do i practice, do i just play in the streets or somethng?
>>
>>73021688
>>73021722
thanks
>>
>>73026814
Capriccio Espangol by Korsakov is a better Spanish-sounding piece than 99% of actual Spanish music.
>>
>>73027955
t. Vladimir Mikhailov
>>
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ABRAN PASO PARA EL PRÍNCIPE
>>
>>73028024
Just admit that Russian composers are the GOAT.
>>
>>73027917
if you got access to a piano, then that
if not, either musictheory.net or teoria.com has ear training stuff. I forget which one tho
>>
>>73026814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nSMCT8DkZ0&list=PLF032EDF166ECD780
>>
>>73028031
Ah man, I just broke up with my gf and I can't stop listening to El amor acaba. Literally what happened to my relationship.
>>
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>>73028160
he's gotchu f a m
>>
>>73026814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uS3mDcU3A4
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEa1U8z3ils
>>
>>73025261
Name a better transcriber than Liszt.
Protip: you can't.
>>
>listen to a woman playing Bach
>she plays it exactly how you'd expect a woman to play Bach
>>
>>73030566
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGPak1GQcA
>>
>>73030659
And how does a woman stereotypically play Bach?
>>
>>73030834
Like she's playing for a group of children, in a casual way.
>>
>>73030771
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVzYvV1yZdU
>>
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Masaaki Suzuki is doing a concert here next week. should be fun. pic related is the programme.
Could do with more cantata though...
>>
>>73030881

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD0SPdpGsgI
>>
petzold
>>
>>73031000
Why would you wanna listen to a concert sponsored by a motorcycle brand?
>>
best german lieder, GO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lKChtab2fY

i dunno if this is a really normie answer or something but I just discovered it and I really like it
>>
>>73011168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7IxKyZV5bk
>>73032627
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWWTSeEDUcc
>>
I unironically really like Toscanini's Rhapsody in Blue. The ending is terrific, handled the best out of any I've heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u5bURBsvg0
>>
Happy sounding organ music recommendations pls?
>>
>>73011168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0aVTPvYQ4Y
>>
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ti59NdbG1c
>tfw you will never have a qt medieval lyre playing french gf
>tfw you will never be a 12th century traveling bagpiper
feels bad man

also Machaut is based
>>
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>>73016217
>>73016249
>>73016257
>>
>>73034248
>implying there's such thing
>>
>>73034248
Widor - Symphonies
>>
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>>73034248
>>
>>73011168

It should be: "Discutan sobre la música clásica española u otro país de habla hispana."

I'm guessing you tried to say "or other country where people speak spanish" when you wrote "o de otro país al nacionalidad español."

Don't use google translate kids.
>>
>>73034405
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xf6zv4hNK8&index=13&list=LLwBAZNJjXUeKFNe8Iasqbnw

post goat french medieval music
>>
Modern = Baroque > Classical > Romanticism
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoiXvQhWrKY

Richter conducting and playing in Handel's organ concertos. I've heard countless organists play, but to me he is still the greatest.
>>
Avant-Garde > Modern > Romanticism > Baroque = Classical
>>
>>73036062
Wow these are excellent
>>
>>73034248

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4uZvhjQNi0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtAFudR0U_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifv5mTeG08M
>>
>>73034419
*plays turkish march*
chad btfo
>>
chad chad chad
>>
>>73034405
>>73035830
hol' up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVwW7blDDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJrclYubteg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEs4w6yZ9lw

fun fact: these tunes that mention "fumex" are most likely about smoking either opium or hashish.
>>
>>73037561
>are most likely about smoking
They almost certainly weren't it is more likely that these 'smokey' people that were talked about in the middle ages were simply a joke on hot headed young people.

http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/misc/fumeurs.html
>>
>>73026814
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K86ArgGTMJ4
>>
>>73013563
plebs who base their perception of emotion/passion in music on facial expressions.
>>
>>73037866
But that ignores the fact that these songs are very experimental and ahead of their time and quite "trippy" in their tonal language.
>>
>>73035857
this
>>
>>73026042
>1 year and he can't even write a simple sentence
Pretty pathetic desu my dude
>>
Piano and violin are the most noble instruments.
>>
Sweelinck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMdrWlCPSvE
>>
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>>73039617
Wrong.
>>
>page 10
life-saving manouver commencing
>>
Piano>strings>winds>brasses>percussions>other traditional instruments>electric instruments
>>
Brahms never get to the point. NEVER. He must have had the most uneventful, stagnant personality in music history, the fact that he is still remembered just shows us that the German academia of the second half of 19th century and first half of the 20th century had to be destroyed.

Sure, there are notable examples and exceptions in his repertoire, but that still does nto justify the fact that he is considered a ''great composer'' by most classical music aficionados.
>>
Verdi never get to the point. NEVER. He must have had the most uneventful, stagnant personality in music history, the fact that he is still remembered just shows us that the Italian academia of the second half of 19th century and first half of the 20th century had to be destroyed.

Sure, there are notable examples and exceptions in his repertoire, but that still does nto justify the fact that he is considered a ''great composer'' by most classical music aficionados.
>>
>>73042395
>>73042444

These posts are correct.
>>
>>73042395
He was "The New Beethoven" with his 1st symphony being called Beethoven's 10th. It is a good example of how classical was turning in on itself and trying to cling to former glories when you start claiming that. Brahms was added to a holy trinity of "The Three Bs" but only by ousting Berlioz who had already been named as a worthy successor of Bach and Beethoven. Of course Berlioz as actually pretty innovative and French, both things the stagnating late romantic German music industry didn't like.
>>
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Shostakovich's chamber music is so much better than his symphonies why don't people realize this
>>
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How do I play these rhythms (the triplets against the dotted quavers). Also why are the crotchets in bar 1 and other bars not dotted. I assume he is implying 4/4 time, but how do I know if the dotted quavers are triplets or not? Please help
>>
>>73042607
everyone knows his symphonic output is inconsistent, what are you talking about
>>
Am I racist for avoiding systematiacally asian classical performers?
>>
>>73011188
Could anyone who has downloaded all of this share a torrent, or zip it all up and upload somewhere? Really want to download a lot of the albums but I keep hitting the mega limits.
>>
>>73043179
>systematiacally asian
fuck off cloister
>>
>>73043179
No.
>>
where's all the anime

wtf
dead general
>>
>>73042698
You have to play the 16th note in the space between the last note of the triplet and the first note of the next triplet. The notes in bar 1 are technically supposed to be dotted, yes, but I assume the copyist was lazy.
>>
>>73043406
"The slower the thread, the more patrician it is."
- Abraham Lincoln, 1864
>>
>>73043913
Just like interpretations

Cobra was the most patrician of all
>>
>>73043193
me again, bought a mega account and am downloading them all. might torrent it up when I organize it
>>
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>>73044128
>paying because you don't want to pay
Smart guy. Most of those interpretations can be found elsewhere and they don't have to be good/essential at all. That Scherchen Vivaldi is completely meh, for example.

>>73011168
Gonna hear Sotelo's "De oscura llama" live tomorrow. Do I have to be familiar with flamenco to "get it"?
>>
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>>73038516
>I will never be good enough to read Don Quixote in Spanish
>>
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https://rateyourmusic.com/list/alimal/an-introduction-to-felix-mendelssohn/
>>
>>73044466
is hell
>>
Who should I listen to in Debussy's Preludes??
>>
>>73045035
Michelangeli.
>>
>Arvo Part is bad
cease this meme
>>
>>73044576
>rym

Worst website in the history of the internet.
>>
>>73043406
I'm enjoying the lack of immature anime posts.

Slow /classical/ is the best classical
>>
>>73045035
Jacobs
>>
>>73045203
just because you get triggered by some of its users doesn't mean the site itself is bad
>>
Anyone got a classical music flowchart for a pleb?
>>
>>73045727
listen to the opening of St. John Passion until you've convinced yourself that classical is good
>>
>>73013563
Because if it sounds exceptionally clean and accurate, it feels like a robot just playing. Obviously he was one of the best violinist of all time,
>>
Taneyev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-a158UHUtQ
>>
>>73043977
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKHyDwAJQws
>>
Recommend me something really melancholy
>>
>>73030659
Hillary hahn?

My fav interpretation is gideon kremer
>>
>>73047231

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xz4SjUs6zs
>>
>>73047231
the melancholy of haruhi suzumiya
>>
>>73047247
Nice>>73047266
Already heard this one
>>
>>73047241
Podger.
>>
Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN22ATDxOwQ
>>
>>73048473
Guitar is so boring.
>>
>>73048694
This.
Guitar/lute feels to bland.
>>
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>>73011168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prkx-QcFXC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBHbWQXxlYc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHMo9RTkV60
Thread posts: 173
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