PWR BTTM DENIES ALLEGATIONS

From Ben:
>What has transpired over the past several days has been emotionally overwhelming and difficult to comprehend. Last Thursday, I learned that an anonymous individual had made an allegation of sexual assault against me. This allegation was devastating to me as it is contrary to the intentional way I seek to interact with those around me. As I digested the allegations, I tried to figure out who the individual might be so that I could try to reconcile what I had read with my memory of any particular sexual interaction. I’ve waited to respond to the Jezebel article because the statements made about me by the anonymous source did not line up with any sexual experience I have ever had. Over the past several days, I was able to figure out who the individual was based on what I was reading and my subsequent conversations with Liv. I am not going to breach the anonymity of the person interviewed in Jezebel, but given the serious nature of what was published and its impact, I have to unpack the claims and provide perspective on the details within. We met the night before a show in March 2016 and spent most of the following day together. After the show, she invited me back to her house and we eventually engaged in sex. Based on the nature of our communications and our interactions with one another, I understood our interactions to be fully consensual. We stayed in touch over the course of several weeks by exchanging texts and pictures. Later, she asked if she could stay with me at my home, where we had sex several more times over the course of those days. Again, I understood these interactions to be fully consensual, especially since our ongoing communications continued to be mutual, positive and reciprocal in nature. We did not see each other much after but when we did it was entirely pleasant and we continued to exchange texts, including as recently as March of this year. I had no indication before last week that she had any concerns about our interaction.

who cares

>Last week I learned that, in February of this year, this person had expressed concerns to others about what had transpired between us. I fully embrace and respect this individual’s right to speak out in any manner or forum they choose, including in a Facebook post or anonymously to a Jezebel reporter. It does not diminish that person’s experience or perception. After the initial shock of learning about her concerns, I have tried to understand her experience of our interactions. It would be antithetical to my values to attack, blame, or shame someone who is using the power of call-out culture to name their experience and hold others accountable, even when – or especially if – the individual they seek to hold accountable is me. I fully appreciate that someone’s views about the dynamics of intimate interactions can change and are not always apparent in the moment. While I am open to understanding this person’s perspective, I strongly contest the account put forth in Jezebel. I am firmly committed to consent, to communication, and to mutual expression of sexual interest. The accusations in Jezebel directly conflict with my experience, as it is not my practice to engage in sexual contact without protection, without discussing the issue with my partner, or to engage in the other conduct alleged in the Jezebel article. That being said, in keeping with my commitment to my principles, I believe it is my responsibility to be accountable to this individual’s perspective and to honor it accordingly.

too late. their career is over

>>72853845
clearly you, or else you wouldn't have made the effort to open this thread, type your response, solve the CAPTCHA, and press post.

they took too long

>>72853866
>>72853870
pretty much
taking so long to respond is the worst thing you can do in this situation and it ended up destroying their entire career

>>72853845
you

>>72853829
>>72853846
too late

>One more thing. I have seen posts about people raising concerns about having their boundaries crossed when I have greeted our fans after our shows, something Liv and I do after every performance, taking selfies and thanking folks for coming. This is, again, incredibly shocking news to me, as the safety and well-being of PWR BTTM fans is the most paramount concern I have as a member of this band on and off stage. If my physical contact has made anyone feel uncomfortable, I sincerely apologize and will work hard to have an increased awareness of boundaries moving forward consistent with our commitment to our fans.

From Liv:
>In February, I made contact with the anonymous individual interviewed by Jezebel, someone I knew casually, after hearing that she had made inflammatory accusations about Ben in a private online forum. My intent in reaching out was to learn more and to make myself available in the event that I could be of any help. Our conversation was friendly, but it ended without a plan for any specific next steps. Based upon our discussion, my understanding was that she did not want me to share her identity with Ben unless I had her explicit permission to do so, and I assured her that I would not do so.
>After our conversation, I wanted to discuss with Ben the issues she had raised but I quickly realized that doing so would inevitably reveal her identity. I did not know how to proceed nor did I know where to seek advice about how to move forward. After Ben ascertained the individual's identity on Friday I decided that my withholding information was no longer protecting her privacy and I told Ben about the conversation she and I had.

>>72853866
>>72853909
Yeah right, since he has texts he can sue them all to kingdom come probably including apple or whoever else dropped them from streaming. He's got everyone dead to rights. She is the one who waited too long and now probably will be liable for it.

From PWR BTTM:
>As some of you know, we set up a separate email address back in mid-May so that anyone with information relevant to the situation that was then unfolding could privately share what they knew. At the time we thought it was the right thing to do. We now see that we were putting the onus on others to do something that only works if it is what they want. We have concluded that there is no viable way to do what we were trying to accomplish, with the result that we are going to shut that email address down (we have not and will not look at any emails that may have been sent there to date).
>Finally, to our fans, our friends, our family and those who have supported us unfailingly and who continue to support us unfailingly: thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Having enjoyed the enthusiastic support of so many incredible people throughout our music careers has been a blessing. We love playing music, we love sharing music with others and we want nothing more than to be back performing together soon.

>>72853955
too much like pr
if it was me. i'd be like kanye
IM INNOCENT

>>72854012
Except they're not Kanye, they're two literal faggots who wear women's clothing, cover themselves in paint and glitter, and take it up the ass.

Oh wait, they are like Kanye.

>>72854007
>including apple or whoever else dropped them from streaming
lmao
if he tries to sue any big company he's gonna lose hard. they're not in the wrong here.

>>72853870
How could they have known they would be fucking assassinated like Julius Caesar without proof of the allegations?

>>72854070
If they broke a contract they sure as hell are. They were just betting that "in these extreme and heinous circumstances" that a judge would rule in their favor. They jumped the gun big time. For all we know this was one big trap since he has the holy grail of weeks of text messages.

>>72854053
kek'd

>>72854070
>>72854150
apple didn't drop them. their Label owns the rights to the streaming platforms

do u guys even make music ffs

Oh shit spotify dropped them too. That's probably why they waited. Spotify was the last to do it. They're fucked now.

>>72854204
incorrect

>>72854204
That's not how it works, lol. The label has control over that. Polyvinyl sent a takedown request to Spotify and it was removed.

>>72854007
lol

the whole text thing is meaningless in the eyes of the sjw fan's they have, the same shit like always will pour out

>I was raped but kept in contact with my rapist for years
>texts don't mean anything she was in shock or scared to admit what happened

pandora's box has been opened in regards to public opinion especially for a band who relied on that community.

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>>72854010
>from the PWR BTTM of our hearts

>>72854150
I'm almost 100% sure that all their contracts have something about being able to drop them in a situation like this.

>>72853729
I have no fucking clue who these faggots are supposed to be an not the slightest inclination to find out.

Am I getting old?

>>72854254
also
>I had consensual sex with him but he was pushy prior to it so it was rape

>>72854252
Oh well then that's pretty shocking. Too bad polyvinyl doesn't have deep pockets.

>>72854278
>>72854254
t.virgins who watch too much porn

>>72854252
>>72854204
how come PWR BTTM is still on spotify when I search them up now?

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>>72854326

>>72854326

lol good response, but look at the community and how quickly they were torn down?
you think the same people (including Pitch who wrote a piece about them and how the queer community deserves better) will 180 and welcome them back?

b real my dude.

>>72854326
true, but that has nothing to do with my point. kill yourself please

>>72854344
You can still find them but their music is gone

>>72854373
thats their fault for waiting until they could talk to a bs lawyer on how to defend themselves

>>72853729
>never heard of PWR BTTM until this thread
>looks on youtube
>nothing of value lost
>continues to mourn Chris Cornell & his possible deathfap.

>>72854398
nah, all their music is still there and listenable for me. Maybe its a region thing?

>>72854344
That's also not how it works. An artist isn't deleted merely because an album of theirs was deleted. Although, the album still appears to be up outside the US but through the band's other label, which also dropped them. I assume it will be off their page soon.

>>72854344
What country? Are you sure? It pulls up profile and all that crap but their catalog has been yanked. I just checked a few days ago and it was all there and now it's gone.

>>72854404
I literally never heard of them either.

I'm seriously thinking this is all just a huge marketing scam. Bunch of literal whos and suddenly everyone in the ((((music press)))) is talking about them.

Really makes you think.

>>72854427
Norway, all their music is still there for me.

>>72854426
>>72854427
spotify likes money. they aren;t dropping them that fast

>>72854404
ffs, it was officially ruled a suicide. RIP either way

Okay, lets say you are innocent. its still over, your fanbase were sjw morons who think "guilty until proven innocent". Any momentum as a buzz band is gone.
All your music wiped from the internet.

And worst of all, you are giant faggots posting on mu like we like terrible music calculated and put together to be aimed at tumblr millennials

Ben ends it all when

>>72854446
they can just start over tbf

>>72854446
>we
>R Lejun

>>72854403
my point is

PWR BTTM Is done.

>>72853729
Seriously, does anyone care about PWR BTTM besides pitchfork?

>>72854524
rip
>>72854526
/pol/

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I like how Indieheads is acting like they weren't part of the mass hysteria that believed unconfirmed allegations. They were fucking giddy when it all went down.

>>72854444
nice quads. and yes i know it was. just... michael hutchens, ya know? i guess we'll never know for sure. unless he was found naked?

>im gonna start a band called Deathfap.

>>72854542
I'd join that shit. What type of music would it be?

>>72854542
hutchense i mean.

>>72854504

under a new name and new group yeah.

>>72854536
they'll be first against the wall when ben triumphantly returns with the fourth reich in tow

>>72854589
GLTTR FGS

>>72854443
Yeah I'm sure this niche LGBTQ rock band is a huge cashcow for them that they just can't stand letting go

>>72854536
>going on reddit for music

go back

>>72854567
prog-core grind-folk techno-djent EDM/classical with a grunge-funk twist.

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>>72854597
I'd be fine with a mass extermination of those nu-male fucks.

pic related, it's actually an indieheads meetup.

>>72853729
Good riddance! Straight guys role playing to be flaming homosexuals and dressing up like retarded drag queens to entertain the SJW crowds..

>>72854649
Doesn't sound avant-garde enough for me, pass

>>72854673
kek is it 2007 again?

>>72854623
you would be surprised

>>72854682
thefirst single will be 13 minutes of me farting into a watering can, cut on wax records that can only be played once, in a limited run of 13 pressings, left on park benches in eastern European farming communities.

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>>72854673
>indieheads meetup

>>72854746
Okay I'm interested now, can my silent reaction to watching you fart be included on the track?

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Reform as a death in june tribute band and then i might like them

I guess they realized asking their victims to email them the stories of how they raped them wasn't working and since they have nothing to lose now that they've lost everything they are trying this new tactic.

>>72854772
it would just be pretentious otherwise.

>>72854673
mac demarco clones and death grips shirts

i can only imagine the dank memes being dropped at this meetup

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>crazy women with borderline personality disorder regrets having sex with someone and claims rape

wait, I thought he was gay?

>>72854840
you were supposed to.

>>72854840
queer isnt about being gay anymore

>>72854832
I think it would be groundbreaking and blow those guys minds if someone from mu showed up wearing an ironic nickleback shirt and blasting mike love beach boys

>>72854840
neither of them are gay, its an excellent marketing tactic

>>72854840
He only is now that it's fashionable.

>>72854622
SRRY

>>72854673
jesus fucking christ

>>72854882
i unironically wear nickelback tshirts

>>72854947
SRRY NT SRRY

>>72854673
jesus christ

>>72854673
Oddly enough the only tolerable looking one is the guy in the dg shirt.

>>72855041
>birkenstocks
i don't think so

>>72855063
Didn't catch those. Still more tolerable looking than the other fags.

>>72854622
stealing this

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>get accused of rape
>put out a bullshit non-statement asking people who you might have raped to email you
>get dropped by record label, touring members, management fans, etc.
>music career practically over
>now is the right time to put out a statement denying the claims

These guys are retarded

>>72854983
BTCHS B CRZY

I'm tempted to buy their album now since it might go up in price in the future.

>>72855116
One of them is a fake trans person. No shit they are retarded. Probably a lot more than just that too.

>>72855116
it's called being a SJW and being eaten by your own community

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>Google is the only one to have the album still up

Google confirmed rapists?

>>72855116
cognitive dissonance

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>>72853729
This is what they have to fight against

>>72855186
Larry Page raped me

okay, so will Google remove him now? Thank you. I'll get a Jezebel article, that should seal the deal.

>>72855250
From the comments section of their apology, btw

>>72855250
Ew

>>72853729
Got to love p4k saying "Queer kids deserve better than PWR BTTM" before any actual evidence or any admission comes from the guy. I wonder if they'd still publish it today now that he's officially denied any wrongdoing.

>>72855250
damn.

literally took 2 days for everything to implode
4 to respond
and it was already too late.

but what do you expect from a bunch of teenage girls going through their first years of exploration and expecting the world to change to their whim.

>>72853729
I for one, believe them

>>72855396
Sadly in this case they were right to expect everything to change for them though.

Not a fan of this band in the least but it is sad accusations is all it takes. At least with lostprophets guy there was substantial evidence his is a shitbag

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>>72853829
>>72853846
What a milquetoast, fucking nothing response.

>Put out damage control before and don't fully respond
>Tank your entire career and get entirely dropped by everyone you've ever known and turned into a pariah over anonymous accusations
>Time to respond. What do you say?
>A) "I categorically deny everything here and will proactively seek to disprove this, is this is entirely fallacious and harmful to all involved, I will seek legal action for this slander that has destroyed our lives, etc. etc."
>B) "I mean, like, consent and call-out culture is okay, so I support their right to do this, BUT I DIDN'T DO IT AND CAN PROVE IT, but, like, people need to be able to do this and I don't want anyone harmed. I know I factually, actually never raped anyone, but it might have been real in their mind, so I have to say this, but I didn't do it. But still."

>They chose B

I mean, I would defend, and have defended them, even though I detest their clearly cooked image and the shitty type of people that would love them. I defend anyone who is victim of this sort of shit. That said, this is about as close as someone can get to deserving this sort of thing, if they're such an easy target as to damn near facilitate this whole thing in their response.

I wish them well, but they bungled the fuck out of how they dealt with all of this, and they're likely done because of it.

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>>72855549
Yeah, I mean this Ian Watkins guy, this guy was a real jerk.

>>72855389
I have no doubt they wouldn't have published it if the denial had come sooner

But because this movement is so hyper-social, they needed to cover their asses asap to look good

>band's entire gimmick is being unapologetic fags
>rape a chick

What did they mean by this?

>>72855604
I believe you nailed it, friendo

>>72855676
This post gave me a surprisingly hearty kek.

>>72855604
I agree but at the same time I can't blame them. This would be different if it was someone like Conor Oberst but they're not. They're SJWs who were eaten alive by fellow SJWs so they thought the solution would be to act like an SJW.

>>72854265
Don't lie, you know you do
Also (you)

>>72855676
>band's entire gimmick is being unapologetic queers
>rape a chick
FTFY

get it now?

>>72855896
They like to call themselves faggots though, what's the problem?

>>72853829
Release the texts.

>>72855041
lol he really, really doesn't. at all.

>>72854673
look at these FAGGOTS

>>72853729
link? need to forward it to my therapist

>>72855883
I don't

radical feminists react to the news

https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/6atbb5/member_of_queer_punk_band_pwr_bttm_accused_of/

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>>72856657
>this is why you can't trust that some man calling himself queer/genderqueer isn't going to do the same male pattern violence. just because there is some space that is supposedly safe for "LGBTQA+++" or whatever doesn't change shit. women have to be on guard EVERYWHERE. what really pisses me off is them setting up an email account and trying to trick these women into giving them evidence. fuck that, go to the police, get a lawyer, don't communicate with them because I guarantee Ben will read these emails.

there has been a LOT of damage control thinkpieces about this lately. a lot of patting on the back for "demanding accountability", interviews with "heartbroken ex-fans" and some fall an inch short of full on blaming 'white cis males' for all of this, but most of this doesn't seem to be sticking. as for the latter, there are many abusers and unstable people lurking in the politically far left bands, so it would be a mutually assured destruction to further pursue that route.
i think this is all why /pol/ gives a shit.

>>72853846
>I fully embrace and respect this individual’s right to speak out in any manner or forum they choose, including in a Facebook post or anonymously to a Jezebel reporter.
Read: "I fully embrace and respect this individual's right to falsely accuse me of rape"

What the fuck is he thinking? This is even worse than the initial statement.

>>72854840
Maybe she (who claims to have been raped) is a guy, you know. Their rules

>>72857239
no, he has a girlfriend but only would refer to ambiguously as his 'partner' but is clearly just some regular girl. he was being fashionably fake queer.

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>>72857229
They are colliding into the fallacy of the ideology they've made so much cash on

to adhere to the expectations of their audience would to agree that accusation alone makes Ben guilty. Of course they can't do that as their the subject of the life destroying allegation.

On the flip side, they can't demonstrably deny the allegation, as that would contradict everything their base stands for, i.e. that the accusers are always in the right, and would subsequently kill their cash cow and career.

As a result, you have this poor fuck engaging in gold medal Olympic mental gymnastics to defend themselves without even implying that the accuser is wrong. Pretty sad when you think about it.

Clearly they misstepped by way of drinking too much of their own illogical cool aid. Had Ben immediately denied the allegations, they may have taken a major hit with their fanbase but they still would have a label, still would be selling records, and in a couple months their idiot fanbase would have forgotten anyway, moving on to lynch Perfume Genius for something ableist or whatever

>>72857962
they will most definitely revenge-lynch some all white male bands in retribution, you can count on it. they are pretty upset that they had to sacrifice one of their own, see: >>72856927

>>72854441
Literally every music publication was talking this band up right before the allegations, this was set to be one of the biggest releases of the year. Then their entire career derailed in a matter of hours. No money is being made off them.

I promise you it wasn't the Jews, neckbeard.

>>72855634
I enjoyed your post

SJWs have to fight each other, no one else is going to take them seriously.

>>72854673

I guarantee you all of these guys look better than the average /mu/tant

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>>72858742
I'd like to think so

>>72854404
You don't think it's fascinating/scary how an anonymous person can post allegations on the internet and have an entire band's career be wiped out in 24 hours?

>>72854882
>my memes are better than your memes
cringe

also
>implying anyone in that pic doesn't browse /mu/

>>72854526
What happened is still fascinating, it's telling of what is to come. Specifically the power dynamic between men and women is changing fast.

>>72854673
lol some of these fuckers do a stupid podcast

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>>72853729
i fuckin hate this bitch

apparently she has the receipts and info to prove he's guilty but all she does is argue in the facebook comment section

what the fuck

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>>72854673
there's nothing wrong with this photo.

what's really laughable is the fact that the posters who are mocking this, are no different from the people who are in the photo. actually really sad.

>>72859092
True, but there is plenty wrong with /r/indieheads.

Bet some of these people were legitimately disappointed to see their group was all white men.

>>72856762
>transwomen would NEVER do something creepy in a women's bathroom
lol lol lol ⭐

>>72859160
>transwomen would NEVER do something creepy in a women's bathroom

Ben isn't a trans woman. And most trans women don't act creepy in women's restrooms, believe it or not. The majority of those that are confident enough use the women's restroom get in, do their business and gtfo. They're acutely aware of how rabidly paranoid the public and misandrist radical feminists are that they're scared to even approach the ladies' room, lest they'll get branded a tranny rapist and lynched, all for being so brazen as to look ugly in the presence of a helpless female.

Tranny bathroom panic is a lot like gun control logic where we treat innocent people like criminals because a mob of morons are scared of a bogeyman.

>>72854673
shockingly the guy in the dg shirt looks to have his shit together the most, the guy next to him in the st vincent shirt looks like a pretty regular ass dude as well

>>72858982
she lying

>>72854053
now this is shitposting

>>72858284
>implying everything isn't the jews' fault
>>72858810
there was no reason to post that anon

>>72859092
t. indiehead

>>72859628
>Tranny bathroom panic is a lot like gun control logic where we treat innocent people like criminals because a mob of morons are scared of a bogeyman.

how about trannies can shut the fuck up, and i don't need to worry about being mowed down by an AR-15 cause some dude had a bad day?

>>72853829
why does he talk like he's fucking autistic

>>72854673
>dude slackercore lmao
Mac Demarco should be imprisoned

>tallest guy there looks 5'9"
>guy wearing a shirt that literally advertises him being a redditor
I'm glad there hasn't been a /mu/ meetup, I know 90% of the people here probably look worse but at least I don't have a clear image of the guy who's calling me a racist pleb because I don't like Kendrick

>>72854883
>participate in p4k interview in which they talk about doing poppers, "taking nine inches", and shitting themselves due to brutal anal sex
>lmao gotcha tumblr
Really makes you think

>>72854150
>browses /r/legaladvice once

>>72853729
can someone give me a quick rundown on these guys?

>edgy band can't be edgy anymore

Shut it down

>>72854883
I knew people who went to college with ben and they've all said ben and liv were using the lgbt image as a gimmick from the start.

>>72855896
What does "queer" even mean? I've heard a hundred different definitions and everyone's talking about queer this queer that more and more

>>72864110
It's literal 'progressive' nonsense.

Used to divide society.>>72864110

>>72864110
it means you're going against your gender identity from what i can gather.
total fuckin bullshit
the feminization of society is killing us all and getting women raped.

I'm gonna scream if I hear another "I always believe the the victim" bullshit phrase again. It's like literally the mentality of letting an egotistical or mentally ill person get away with whatever they want to get away with. Its such a dissemination of our justice system and how crimes are processed that it makes me fucking ill. How can the LGBT society continue on towards sex positivity if any sexual encounter, which may have been consensual at the time, is allowed to suddenly turn into rape if one partner feels that they arent getting the attention that they want from the other? It's such logical garbage that can snowball into any sexual encounter being a rape cause I didnt text you 2 weeks after we fucked. PWR BTTM may have just deserved this though. The "queer" music scene they were a part of is just glorified witch hunting, virtue signaling, and snowflaking. It the bastard reject section that gives the rest of any "progressive" scene a bad name

Sorry to scream into the void everyone.

>>72863957
>I'm glad there hasn't been a /mu/ meetup
The Grips show I went to was pretty much a /mu/ meetup. Literal 15/16yos being dropped off by their moms, a lot of them wearing redbubble shirts with edgy-ass MC Ride fanart on them. After the show I saw a group of 4-5 people wearing the same Cal Chuchesta shirt conglomerating with ~3 wearing Macintosh Plus shirts. Walking past I heard one say "I'll trade you a rare Pepe for those dank memes bro" and I came close to letting my autism get the better of me

Really can't think of a single band whose fanbase is worse

>>72864179
It's not real anon.

It's staged colluded bullshit used to divide society.

'sense' is irrelevant.

>>72864179
Preaching to the choir man.
As full of tumblr types as /mu/ is, the general consensus seems to be that p4k explicitly saying they're guilty based on a literal anonymous Jezebel "source" is some bullshit, but most of us don't really give a shit because the band are annoying faggots (not even real faggots) who were dumb enough to invest in pandering to lunatics

When the Gira thing happened nearly everyone was on his side, except for a few brigades in the p4k Facebook comments section

>>72864127
>the feminization of society is killing us all

citation

>>72864314
>>72864295
It's true, though anon

>>72864179
> Its such a dissemination of our justice system and how crimes are processed that it makes me fucking ill

check a dictionary next time melville.

>>72864342
lol, your right, sorry mang

>>72864314
lol

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Would you pretend to be a girl for the revenue /mu/?

>>72864295
sorry. citing sam hyde. (fixed)

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Indie died years ago.

Who cares.

>>72864448
you, pwr bttm, their fans, and /mu/

>>72854673
Hey I'm in this picture. AMA

>>72864469
whats it like to actively make music worse for everyone around?

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>>72864272
I think that there is a lot of information that we are not getting. I hope none of you are stupid enough to think that it was *just* the Jezebel allegations that tanked PWR BTTM's career. You know this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum?

From what I gathered Ben Hopkins was a pretty shady guy in the tightly-knitted community that he was apart of. Of course, these are all allegations, but when you build your entire career on progressive memes you're held to a much higher standard. Now, in addition to this you have their first statement not even denying the allegations which is fucking bizarre and made them look guilty as hell. Then, it took nearly a week to issue a wishy-washy denial which was too little and too late.

So for the love of fuck can we stop pretending that *one allegation* ruined someone's entire career. Life isn't that simple, so stop acting like it is to justify your hysteria over "SJWs" or "progressives."

>>72864381
this isn't really about the justice system.

but i do agree with you that the concept of consent should attach at the time of occurrence. the conflation of lack of consent with regret is really troubling, for the reasons you explore.

>>72864333
nah

why don't we just kill all feminists and all musicians who cowtow to them?

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>this thread
why live

>>72864504
I understand where you are coming from, but a lot of what I am seeing is that there is really only one accusation from one person. And even then, that person isnt really coming up with any concrete proof anyways. At this point, its just a lot of "he said, she said" (To be more PC, I guess I would use "they said, the other they said"). The bandwagoning of calling Ben shady is inevitable, as people always crave attention anyways, so i'm inclined to disregard it. A lot of musicians are eccentric to the point of being grating and unlikeable.

The vacuum doesnt need to be as small as you would like it to be anon

>>72864616
But, you know, IDK man. I live in a small, secluded house made of sand. I'm likely to be wrong about all of this anyways. If Ben did do those things, I'll admit to being in the wrong

>>72864469
are you tiggs?

>>72863957
>>tallest guy there looks 5'9"

wrong, I know one of the guys in this pic and the tallest guy is probably like 6'2 if I had to guess

>>72864482
It can't get much worse desu

>>72864686
No

>>72864722
yeah you're probably right, wish you the best anon

>>72864722
I meant to type "desu" not desu, but this seems appropriate

>>72864504
I think anyone who centers their life and image about how much gay sex (or straight sex if applicable) they have is a freak and it wouldn't surprise me for a second if one or both of them had done rapey shit, but there was literally no evidence against them. "People in the scene didn't like him" or "he seemed like a weird guy" isn't evidence and never will be. The only allegations made were from an anonymous source anonymously sent to a feminist clickbait site, no more reputable than the "tips" /pol/ sends in to fuck with HuffPo. Other shit like "well a friend of a friend said she knows someone who Ben might have raped" doesn't fly and never will.
I agree that pussyfooting around the initial wave was bizarre and hell, I would guess that he is guilty. But I'm not going to definitively proclaim he is until there's conclusive evidence of it, and neither should anyone else.

>>72858813
>See: December 2016 Merchant Ships reunion

lmao this happened to Jank recently too

>>72864537
because then we'd be stuck having to listen to smooth brains like you

>>72864504
we're coming from a similar valence, but my sympathies are with ben. sexuality and intercourse are nuanced, subtle things, and its uncharitable to condemn him for not outright denying the allegations. it seems to me that he's trying to look at this in a clear-eyed manner-- she (the alleged victim) might have, now, some subjective opinion of how this occurred, but that doesn't taint the act, when it occurred, as lacking consent. he(ben) might have received every manifestation of consent at the time. call me old-fashioned, or a patriarch, or w/e, but if women (or men) are holding themselves out at shows, flirting with lascivious rock stars, and putting themselves into positions which make consent much more likely to occur (like having rock stars stay at your house), unless these men or women affirmatively say no-- the presumption should be consent.

this doesn't mean they are 'asking for it'. but i should think the act of consent is not some metaphysical thing, but a whole process of interactions, and exposure of vulnerabilities. just because you were vulnerable, and had an unfulfilling sexual experience, doesn't make the experience, after the fact, sex without consent.


frankly it doesn't seem to me that "there is a lot of information we're not getting". this has been a huge focal point in this part of popular culture-- if ben were this rape-man, i'd expect some allegations of a stronger sort then: oh, he kissed my date by surprise at a show once and I didn't appreciate it.

>>72864848
>he probably did it cause hes a freak
>but because there is no conclusive evidence, no one can say anything about him, other than he's a freak
charming

>>72864504
i think you should stick to facebook

>>72864722
who are you then?

>>72864504
previous response here:>>72865059

also! it seems unfair to consider the time frame of ben's response as indicative of guilt. for ben's truth to be dependent on how quickly he was forthcoming, shouldn't the alleged victim be evaluated in a similar manner? if ben is fibbing for responding days late, the victim's story, relayed a year later, must be totally, 100 pct false. (now i don't think this reasoning is correct-- but i'm just pointing out that just like the alleged victim might have reasons for responding late, ben might have similar reasons-- though it would've probably behooved him to respond sooner, at least as far as the public response is concerned).

>>72864616
there are screens of ben saying shitty things, invading people's space, etc other minor but very concrete things all over the internet. it's more than just one accusation, it's multiple accusations of varying levels of detail supported by evidence of ben generally not being a great person/being massively hypocritical

>>72860635
t. loser in the St. Vincent shirt

>>72854673
guy on the far right is QT

>>72865276
huh. well, i guess hearsay about screenshots about ben saying shitty things does make him a rape-man.
case-closed.

>>72865276
>saying shitty things
>means you're a rapist
I mean really, no website cared until the allegation came in, literally a few hours before that everyone was happy with this fucking band and their nonsense. And even then with all this "evidence" people really have to jump through hoops and do mental gymnastics to prove he is a rapist. Like come on where are the criminal charges? Where are the restraining orders? Suing for emotional damage? Where were all these people whose boundaries were stepped on months ago? Until concrete proof or lets say an arrest happens I'll take everything people say as a grain of salt. People nowadays love to jump the shark and just assume things instead of thinking things through.

>>72864469
Why are you such a faggot? Oh and why don't you just go back to r*ddit and never come back

>>72855116
desu I understand why they responded the way they did. It was the wrong move but they clearly held way too much faith in their fanbase and forgot the golden rule of the SJW queer club: don't expect ANYONE to have your back. The majority of their fanbase outside of /mu/ and /reddit/ are queers who have no real sense of art and music, only their own stupid fucking queer aesthetic and bullshit "movement." They elected Ben & Liv to be their martyrs and they of course took the bait since it helped launch them to being on the cusp of real success.

When shit started going down, I think their logic was that if they immediately came out saying "WE'RE INNOCENT, WE'RE INNOCENT," the immediate reaction from their LGBT fans would be "of COURSE you would say that." So they crafted what they thought was a very careful, delicate request to start a dialogue and know more - this clearly implied that they disagreed with the accusations, even if they didn't explicitly say so. And it probably would have held them over, but that's when the accuser got in touch with journalists again and was like, "Oh, they've already known this for months and are lying." SJWs being SJWs, they saw that they would get to stay mad, since that's infinitely more fun than giving someone you like the benefit of the doubt.

Then everything came crashing down. It's all pretty shocking - there have been worse, more believable accusations like this in the past that haven't even drawn a response this heavy. Look at Mike Gira - Larkin Grimm's accusation against him was very specific and graphic, yet none of his business relations cut ties with him. Whereas in this case, the queer community and its insane, illogical rules have been a massive gateway between the band and the media, since journalists are obsessed with political correctness. Once they saw that the queer response to this controversy was to massacre two of their own, journos interpreted that they had to follow suit or be accused rape apology.

>>72865619
>none of his business relations cut ties with him
I don't think you can really compare the two situations on this one since Mikey G runs his own label.

>>72855250
>yeah PWR BTTM, you need to anticipate the reality that I have a time machine in my brain that allows me to travel back to the past and erase my own consent

>>72865477
>>72865451
saying shitty things doesnt make you a rapist but it provides context within which it is easier to accept that you are a rapist. also lol at your blind trust in the justice system

>>72865072
kys

>>72858813
It's honestly their own fault, both for not categorically denying the allegations immediately and for creating and catering to a fanbase which is happy to destroy their careers them as soon as someone makes some claims about them. It's tough for me to figure out a better example of reaping what you sow, can you imagine them having any sympathy for anyone else who was accused, rather then just gathering up the lynch mob?

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>>72865445
in what universe? this Stranger Things-looking motherfucker needs to be exterminated.

>>72855604
exactly. they keep acting as if there's some perfect response that's gonna immediately make their fanbase of inept social justice retards stop and say, "Damn, that really made my glitter twinkle." Yep, turns out your fans are still just as dumb as when you spoke to them last, if not dumber now that they feel empowered by eating their own.

What's so especially infuriating about this is that they have complete legal grounds to sue the fuck out of this person. If the accusation is false (and let's be real, it probably is), then they were literally cheated out of money, and quite a lot given how popular they've become and the attention they've been getting (we all know p4k was planning to give them BNM). With shows cancelled and their album literally not selling anywhere they have lost revenue, both from the squandered sales as well as however much it cost them to make this album. Libel is 100% a suable offense if you have evidence that your career is damaged, and they now have 100+ highly visible articles to serve as this evidence. A well-worded legal threat could have benefited them massively if they acted quicker - the accuser is probably some mentally ill fuckup genderqueer bitch trying zer hardest to get on welfare, the last thing they need is a lawsuit that can put them in debt.

>>72865750
You're way more pathetic than any of the kids in that picture.

>>72865780
I've met some of these kids actually irl. You don't know what you are talking about.

>>72865719
Yeah, fuck the justice system, obviously mob justice on social media shitholes like twitter is the superior system. Who needs due process?

>>72865719
I trust the justice system more than a bunch of random people who take things out of context and don't have all the evidence at hand. Or any for that matter. And when you need to put trust in the justice system that also implies you need to trust your fellow man and peers, because unless you didn't know juries are made up of normal citizens, and nowadays with all the inclusion and diversity stuff there are people from all types of back rounds in juries. So people can't even play the whole "white males (or men period) have no say in this" mentality. And lastly go tell the family of people who were lynched in the 20th century that "lol mob mentality is okay the justice system is bad guys"

>>72865719
>saying shitty things doesnt make you a rapist but it provides context within which it is easier to accept that you are a rapist
you're question-begging-- evidence of saying shitty things has little or no probative value that you are factually a rapist.

>lol at your blind trust in the justice system
the problem with the 'jusitice system' isn't evidentiary rules, but the substantive law you little cretin.

>>72854673
>these are the faces of people that love to destroy lives

>>72854673
haha i am coooool

>>72865773
yeah, good luck winning that liable claim-- pwr bttm are probably public figures, so unless ben can affirmatively prove that he didn't do this shit, its a lost cause.

no one is going to court over this.

>>72865619
It's funny, normally you would expect a big fan of a band to be the least likely to believe accusations against its members, and the most inclined to defend them, so I can see why they might not have expected to get immediately eaten alive by their former fanbase. The issue is their fanbase cares more about them for their identity politics then for their musical talent, and for people who buy into that world, identity politics trumps everything, and Ben as a white, bi, cis male, is pretty low on that totem pole

>>72864210
I agree with this, if you're a true Death Grips fan never see them live, it will damage your soul.

>>72865985
for whatever its worth, if Ben's pronouns are any indications, Ben's not cismale

>>72865976
** unless Ben can prove that the ladies intentionally false statements (or statements with reckless disregard for their veracity)

fixed. the point is the burden is very high!

>>72865798
>>72865817
i'm not sure how acknowledging that there are issues with social media hivemind mentality means that the justice system isn't broken. like i dont expect people to automatically believe rape accusations without any details, and even with the details currently available in the pwr bttm situation i dont expect any random person to unequivocally believe rape occurred. there isn't 100% concrete, irrefutable proof out there and fine, take that with as many grains of salt as you want. but why is the response to that to be like "oh if there's no concrete proof then it's CLEAR it's all bullshit and there's no way ben could possibly be a rapist?" use your fucking heads and at least position yourself to hear the voices of those who are most powerless in this situation (i.e. those who have been assaulted) while remaining skeptical.

fwiw i am in ben's ~scene~ and have a friend who dated them and was subject to abusive behavior from them. i've also personally experienced them being shady and aggressive and it is well established that they're not a great person within this social circle. i dont expect that to be deciding info for you but it's very easy to make character judgments about people you've never met and have only had media-filtered interactions with.

>>72865662
That's a good point, but Young God did form a distribution deal with Mute ahead of To Be Kind that carried over to The Glowing Man. On top of that, Michael still has booking agents, his bandmates, other touring acts, and so on, all of which came to his defense with no questions instead of severing themselves from him.

>>72865750
IDK I'm attracted to nerds that look friendly I guess

>>72865976
>>72866073
It's not a done deal, but he does have his text message history with the accuser that proves they had an ongoing, friendly relationship way past the incident. You also have to remember that the accuser has implied it happened more than once, which is an immediately sketchy claim in a court of law, seeing as no victim in their right mind would allow themselves to be with the person longer, especially if the rapist isn't even part of their friend group.

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>>72866090
>fwiw i am in ben's ~scene~ and have a friend who dated them and was subject to abusive behavior from them. i've also personally experienced them being shady and aggressive and it is well established that they're not a great person within this social circle.
sheeeit nigger
are you a member of the industry?
would we know who you are?

>>72866250
lol this is not how psychology works

>>72866291
no i am just a quiet member of the nyc diy community

>>72866090
I'm not saying the justice system isn't without faults, but it's better than the twisted "justice" that comes from the court of the public opinion. I never denied there was rape or not I really don't care, I'm just stupefied when people argue against the use of correct procedures and just take to social media and rise up a mob to destroy entire lives, which has happened before over trivial shit. I mean how is that different than being "hey look that black guy was accused of something, guilty by default, lets kill him" Also I can't believe people actually take the word of the victim that has no proof because of trivial things like "they denied it too late" or "they didn't deny it outright". Silence is not an admission of guilt, and by your experiences, someone being shitty or an asshole doesn't mean guilt either or that they're depraved human beings that rape people. A bigger problem here is that in today's day and age rape has no real meaning anymore. People claim say rape as if it's gonna go out of style. Just like the term nazi, it has no weight anymore because everyone who has a differing opinion is a nazi. People love to take shit to the extremes and by doing so have only hurt real cases of rape and abuse. So yeah I'm not saying there wasn't rape because there isn't proof otherwise. But at the same time where is the evidence of these assaults? Which comes back to people jumping the shark, if there is no real evidence for or against then why make all these brash decisions? Their careers have literally disintegrated because of nothing.

>>72866090
>the justice system is broken

dude you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. there are good reasons why character and propensity evidence isn't admissible--- a lot of people are jerks, but you have no reason to think a substantial amount of jerks are rapists. its prejudical in the extreme.
please come up with an argument, or stop parroting your drivel about the justice system being broken-- that assertion, if correct, is not based on deficiencies of evidentiary rules.

>fwiw i am in ben's ~scene~ and have a friend who dated them and was subject to abusive behavior from them
bullshit faggot. if you had any first hand information about this you would've brought it up way earlier in the thread.

>>72866250

>he does have his text message history
does he?

>which is an immediately sketchy claim in a court of law, seeing as no victim in their right mind would allow themselves to be with the person longer, especially if the rapist isn't even part of their friend group.

i suppose thats a possible inference, but im not sure its as strong as you think.

>>72866389
because regardless of whether there is publicly available information that makes it irrefutably certain ben raped or abused anyone, the people close to the situation know it to true. it is not just one person but a number of people, and backed up more generally by evidence of ben being a shitty person. even if this is not evidence of abuse it's enough to clash very clearly and concretely with the public image ben has crafted for themself and for which hundreds of young people have looked up to and trusted them. the way in which they have responded publicly while, yes, not cementing whether rape took place, is not in accordance with the values they have proposed to hold dear. this is enough for people to be pissed off and to take accusations of rape in good faith idk. labels and media outlets went along with this because public pressure was high enough and honestly i dont care because i know the allegations are true. also rape is non-consensual sex this is not really that complicated. if sex is coerced it is rape. if one actor takes advantage of a power or age dynamic to make the other person feel like they must have sex with them it is rape.

>>72866518
rape is a severely under-reported crime, met at every step of the legal process with roadblocks discouraging victims from pressing charges or otherwise attaining justice. this is not controversial information: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
https://web.archive.org/web/20140201182537/http://sgdatabase.unwomen.org/searchDetail.action?measureId=26309&baseHREF=country&baseHREFId=675
https://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/pages/rape-notification.aspx
http://www.dailypress.com/news/crime/dp-nws-rape-convictions-20150529-story.html

>>72866090
Friends with Lis?

>>72853729
I pretend to be queer to get pussy: the band

>>72866878
no

>>72866740
>also rape is non-consensual sex this is not really that complicated
That's the thing people have completely twisted this basic definition into everything under the sun, and also many people have faked rapes just to fuck with others. For example my own sister has told me she has no qualms in shouting rape publicly if she doesn't like a guy anymore, I also once saw a girl scream rape just to get a guy friend in trouble publicly, like who the fuck does that? Again it takes away the power from real cases, and makes believing in cases without enough evidence really difficult.

> if one actor takes advantage of a power or age dynamic to make the other person feel like they must have sex with them it is rape.

But why would someone feel compelled to have sex with a small time musician? Because you look up to them, are you gonna have sex with all your role models? Pretty flimsy shit. I can understand if it's something like "hey you can be featured in a song/video/production/etc" to be called coercion because you needed something external to convince someone of engaging with you. But "celebrity status" should not count as that, that's out of the person's control.

>take accusations of rape in good faith idk.

Exactly what's wrong with the situation, people are taking on good faith because "lol they are assholes irl and that's hypocritical" public and private image are two different things.

>i dont care because i know the allegations are true.

Again you missed my whole point, I clearly said I don't have a side with believing rape was real or not, I'm not there I don't give a fuck about them or their fans, what I really care about is pointing out this stupid culture of going to the internet with your problems, as if you can't be a grown up and go to the police. Funny how you say rape is severely under-reported and yet you're defending someone who instead of going to the police first to try and open a case, they went to a news outlet first. Really makes me think

>>72866740
>source dumps articles that make no reference to evidentiary rules
again, you have nothing. there is no reason to think that women aren't coming forward because of the 'legal hurdle' which is the prohibition against admitting character evidence. why would the solution to under-reported rapes be to accept character evidence as probative of rape? you would have "jerks" wrongly be found liable as a means to indemnify women? why?

how about this: if character evidence can be admitted to show that ben is a jerk (as probative of the proposition that ben is a raper), character evidence must be admissible on behalf of the defendant as well, correct? ben should be able to argue the following: the alleged victim has a lot of casual sex, and the alleged victim has lots of casual sex when she is doing illicit drugs, and she often doesn't remember or regrets the sex (as probative of the proposition that the alleged victim did consent).

do you think this would fly? do you think, under your brilliant new legal regime, that more or less women would come forward with sexual abuse claims? (i would bet less would want their sexual history unveiled to the public.)

>ignores allegation that he's totally fabricating relationship with ben
and pwr bttm is being castrated because they waited so long to respond to rape allegations. really makes you think.

>>72867063
there are a number of reasons why rape is under-reported and one of them is that rape cases are tremendously unlikely to end in a conviction: https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system even in cases where there is clear and irrefutable evidence, rapists get off with little or no time: http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/us/brock-turner-release-jail/
that's a fucking tragedy. why would you put yourself through the pain, monetary stress, and public scrutiny of a rape case, reliving your trauma over and over again for strangers, when you can't even trust that anything will come of it? or worse, that you'll be branded a liar and a whore for speaking up. there are issues with social media sentencing but it means people are actually held accountable in situations like these where otherwise most likely nothing would happen, and if it did it would be after months and months of prolonged emotional trauma for the victims.

>>72866740
>and backed up more generally by evidence of ben being a shitty person

you are lying (pretending that you know ben), and stupid (too dumb to engage with my counter-points). if i bring a civil claim against you for rape, should i be able to show that you are lying and stupid to prove my claim? why or why not?

sex sex sex

I'm going to cut my cock off and drown myself in a fucking ditch

>>72867152
>>72867209
>>72867152
>>ignores allegation that he's totally fabricating relationship with ben
i mean you were aggressive towards me and called me a faggot, it didn't seem like you were particularly interested in me saying "no actually you're wrong". i'm not friends with ben but we're acquaintances and in the same overarching social circles. also i'm not a man. i don't think that character evidence should be admissible in court and i don't think a prohibition on character evidence is a legal hurdle in rape reporting, i think the way in which rape cases are handled with systematic bias by court system is a legal hurdle. we were talking about the court of public opinion and in the court of public opinion ben is on trial not just for being a rapist but for being an asshole. the asshole part is pretty easy to prove regardless of whether it's related to the rape and that's enough for people to feel betrayed. also holy fuck calm the fuck down i am not a law student

WAGE GAP RAPE EPIDEMIC ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES

>>72867377
D I S H

>>72867190
>there are issues with social media sentencing but it means people are actually held accountable in situations like these where otherwise most likely nothing would happen, and if it did it would be after months and months of prolonged emotional trauma for the victims.

Yeah and you're also ignoring the flipside, where people lie and use social media to destroy innocent people's lives. Also what's the point of using social media if there is a 0% of arrests? So let's say this Ben guy is actually a rapist. Whoopee his band is now over, now he can go and rape again and again specially since he is even more anonymous than before. Social media does nothing to solve the problem which is putting offenders behind bars. It also doesn't help victims of crimes committed by someone who isn't famous, so really what is accomplished? Nothing, people are ruined by false statements (or true ones) and they can keep doing whatever they want until someone decides to actually press charges.

>SJWs cannibalize themselves with false rape claims
Like pottery.

>>72867393
>Yeah and you're also ignoring the flipside, where people lie and use social media to destroy innocent people's lives.
I'm not part of this conversation but I agree with this because so many people are too naive and think someone lying about damaging things like this is not a likely occurrence. You should never underestimate the lengths to which people will go to get what they want. The ability to mess with someone's life simply by making an accusation without any proof is more attractive to a lot of people than you would think.

Having sex while you're drunk is rape and both parties are at fault

>>72867466
having sex while drunk is being a fucking retard and both parties are at fault for being fucking retards.

>>72867484
life in prison for drunk sex

>>72867491
life in drunk for prison sex

>>72867498
life in sex for drunk prison

>>72867393
do you think that pressing charges is a reliable way of putting someone in prison? because this is patently untrue. hundreds of rape cases are tried every year in which rapists walk away with little to no consequences. sure maybe some of those are due to false accusations, but there's no fucking way that 98% of all reported rapes are false. are 98% of the people being called out on social media facing false accusations? there is a tremendous problem with the way rape cases are treated by the us justice system and that doesn't mean there aren't also problems with trial by social media but there is no comparison between the two. through social media people have managed to make sure at the very least that ben is incapable of pursuing a career in music in which they are 1) making money off of other people's trust 2) able to use that trust to take advantage of people. that is something when by comparison if the issue was taken to police most likely (supported by statistics) nothing would happen.

>>72867491
Identity politics has ruined sex. People take themselves too seriously because they have cushy lives so they create problems for themselves so they feel oppressed. What a sad fucking existence.

>>72867499
prison life sex drunk in for

>>72867522
drunk prison sex for in

>>72867447
according to the national sexual violence resource center false reporting is between 2-10%, presumably a significantly smaller portion of which results in action against the defendant: http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf this is nothing in comparison with the massive number of rapes that do happen and face no recourse from the police

>>72867305
>i think the way in which rape cases are handled with systematic bias by court system is a legal hurdle
i don't believe the legal system is broken, but rather, the legal system is a focal point for the inequities between the sexes. its not intuitive to me that these are best ameliorated through the levers of the legal system (probably requires broader/deeper social changes).
it'd be interesting to see some empirical work as to the effect of implementing more charitable procedural rules and rape reporting/vindications. i'd imagine the rape shield laws were effective, but these essentially restricted character evidence (previously assailants could attack victims for sexual impropriety)

>court of public opinion
this is a strong point imo. i disagree with the posts here that declare that no one can have an opinion as to someone at all unless there is smoking gun evidence. thats never going to happen, and legal and public presumptions needn't be the same.


sorry for snapping.

>>72867551
>I trust all data
I bet you think Sweden is the rape capital of Europe too. Anon, you can't measure something like this unless it is disproved.

>>72854007
Lol, muh masculinity.
Idiot

>>72867393
if ben is using his position of power to coerce women, then removing him from that position should reduce his ability to coerce.

your point is stronger regarding attacking a private person with social media-- that would seem to have a much weaker prophylactic effect

>>72867586
i don't know enough about the intricacies of the law to really argue but yeah i think it's safe to say that even if there are issues cybernetically, the main issues lie in the bias of individual actors, which obviously won't be overturned through policy changes alone. i really don't know that much though.

>>72867632
>if ben is using his position of power to coerce women, then removing him from that position should reduce his ability to coerce.
lol, no. people use their position of power to coerce people they would not normally be able to. removing them from that position of power would only reassign the direction of his coercion.

>>72867659
fascinating. a natural psychologist. you really should write a great novel.

Isn't it especially suspicious that the person who claims they were raped by Ben says that they were raped by Ben again some time later? That doesn't sound like someone who unwillingly had sex would do.

Murder your local rapist

>>72867836
sounds like you know nothing about rape or post-traumatic stress but okay

>>72867877
Special snowflake says what?

>>72867770
Quit the condescending bullshit and actually respond to my point or don't respond at all. How is what I said controversial at all?

>>72867877
neither do you

>>72867877
YOU clearly don't

>>72867885
special snowflake says you are making arguments not based in fact or reason and have no idea what you're talking about or care to know. reasons why someone might continue to see or have sex with their rapist:

-fear of retaliation/not being believed/ostracization
-shame, trying to convince themselves they weren't taken advantage of
-shock, haven't processed what happened to them

>>72867908
>>72867918
nice samefag

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3KB, 144x68px

>>72867954

>>72867877
lol fuck outta here with that shit

>>72853868
>>72853917
i post in every thread

>>72866090
faggot.

>>72866090
>fwiw i am in ben's ~scene~ and have a friend who dated them and was subject to abusive behavior from them.
that means jack shit unless YOU are the one who had a relationship with him. The words of your friend are meaningless.

>>72868075
>i dont expect that to be deciding info for you

>>72867954
unless u have been raped. stop posting info u don't know about

>>72868090
it's completely irrelevant then and you bringing it up only adds to your character.

>>72868103
>>72868112
okay

>>72868090
thats just a bs way to protect yourself from critique

>>72866314
Please be less flippant and tell me how psychology Works. Assuming these text messages exist and she was acting friendly towards them, how are they supposed to understand that they did anything wrong? If she didn't show in any perceivable way that they were violating her consent, in what scenario does this come down to anything more than a miscommunication reinforced by subjective character judgments and hindsight bias?

Of course, if they are lying and these text messages aren't real then the accuser's story has much more weight.

>>72867770
That anon was simply saying that famous people will get into the pants of people they wouldn't be able to without their fame. Without said fame, they would still rape people; it would just be the people they can coerce without fame. I do not see how anyone can disagree with this.

>>72868220
>I do not see how anyone can disagree with this.
people with logic could. because the world isn't black and white

>>72868225
Are you going to continue to create one sentence responses or are you going to actually support your statements?

>>72868191
in the jezebel account she says that ben started having sex with her without permission and refused to wear protection. this is a clear violation of consent and should not require anyone saying so, especially with ben supposedly being a queer superhero. there are number of reasons to continue associating with your rapist after they have raped you, including shame, denial, fear of retaliation, past trauma, self-blame, etc

>>72868234
when you use logic sure. until then not worth m time

>>72868256
>there are number of reasons to continue associating with your rapist after they have raped you, including shame, denial, fear of retaliation, past trauma, self-blame, etc
unless you have been raped. how do you know this is true?

>>72854053
NOW IF I FUCK THIS MODEL
AND SHE JUST BLEACHED HER BTTM
AND I GET BLEACH ON MY T-SHIRT
IMMA FEEL LIKE A BTTM

>>72868261
Except I disagree with your assertion that the opposite of what I said is logical. I think I understand what you are believing is the logical "blow" in relation to the power dynamic but I disagree. Also, I'm so sorry for taking up your time, your highness.

See, I can be condescending too but it doesn't actually mean anything.

>>72868312
>See, I can be condescending too but it doesn't actually mean anything.
it doesn't

>>72868321
yes, it contributes nothing.

>>72868354
exactly. let the police take care of it. not wikipedia warriors like urself

>>72868359
>exactly. let the police take care of it.
you should be saying that to yourself.

>not wikipedia warriors like urself
what the fuck does that mean?

>>72868379
you know

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36KB, 743x271px

>>72868388
I literally did not. How does this apply to me at all?

>>72868411
everything.

>>72868415
Make an actual response, you obnoxious little child. You seem to think that taking away someone's position of power will stop their sexual abuse. I am assuming your ultimate reasoning is either that they will curl up in a ball and stop their behavior or others will know their reputation and thus avoid them. If it's the former, you're extremely naive. If it's the latter, I disagree. If someone is a rapist then they would specifically make sure the other person would not identify them and make the connection.

>>72868256
This would contradict Ben's given statement that they did wear a condom. In the Jezebel account she says that she was intimidated by Ben's advances, due to their "physicality" and "social status" and tried to "be okay with whatever was going on." Even in this fuzzy, biased account it's easy to see a scenario where Ben thought this was a consensual situation, even though that consent was revoked some weeks after the fact.

Again, at what point does Ben realize they did something wrong? After their livelihood, reputation, and (likely) mental well-being are in ruin?

>>72868450
call 911 and a lawyer would solve that issue in right direction. try it

>>72868501
>what is a serial rapist

>>72868517
somebody that needs to be in jail.

>>72868523
I know you know what greentexting is. My point is that your point is null given the existence of serial rapists.

>>72854299
All contracts have pretty simple parts that say a label can drop a band at any times. The band hasn't paid anything to Polyvinyl, the label is investing in them and hopes to get their money back. In case of a PR disaster (this is one) or in any case really, they probably have every right to drop the band.

My (local, boring, indie) band has signed such a contract with our label. They can drop us no questions asked, it's just how it works.

>>72868567
nope. call 911 and lock him up. try . again

>>72868579
In an ideal world, yes. You said:

>call 911 and a lawyer would solve that issue in right direction. try it

If that ideal world matched the one we have then serial rapists would not exist.

>>72868619
pwr bttms victims could help out now. call 911 and lock him up

>>72868633
I agree. If any time is best, it's now.

>>72868646
yep

>>72868264
i have been raped and there are also psychological studies of ptsd that support this

>>72868453
in the jezebel account she says ben started having sex with her without consent and did not use a condom. prior to this situation multiple attempts were made to reach out to the band. it should be pretty obvious they did something wrong

>>72868657
>i have been raped and there are also psychological studies of ptsd that support this
makes sense now. you post on 4chan. sry 4 your loss

>>72864504
This.

And you don't get dropped by your label and backing members of your band because of one Yezebel article. There has been a lot of talking behing the scenes for sure. Polyvinyl probably dropped them when they saw what kinda mess these guys were stuck in. If Ben had the guts to defend himself he would have done so to his feiends and collaborators first, but the clesrly didn't succeed. Something is fishy.

This non-denial is weird. I'd love to see the texts out of curiosity.

Ben's all like: "you should never invalidate someone's personal experience of rape and honestly you shouldn't even put the onus on them to tell you about the rape and you should treat their personal truth with dignity and respect and I am hear to open my hear and talk to THAT FUCKING BITCH JENNIFER WHO'S LYING LIKE A BITCH ABOUT ME I DID NOT RAPE HER SHE IS A FUCKING LIAR and I am here to help her if she needs me TO SAY HOW BIG A FUCKING LIAR SHE IS.

>>72868699
holy shit, this. these were exactly my thoughts when I read it. He's trying to be SJW while denying the allegations.

>>72868688
>And you don't get dropped by your label and backing members of your band because of one Yezebel article.
I don't know man. Judging by today's culture, people will respond irresponsibly. They were probably flooded with emails.

>>72868657
Straight from the article:
>Early this year Hopkins’s bandmate Liv Bruce reached out to Jen after “hearing stories,” and she told Bruce “everything” about her assault. “Their response to me was, I don’t think Ben knows what they did, maybe you should reach out to them,” Jen said. “Then they never spoke out about it again and continued being in the band.”

Not only did they respond to her, they said precisely what I'm saying! The accuser, instead of talking to someone whom she has 1) had multiple sexual encounters with, 2) invited into her home, 3) maintained a decent relationship with via text, chose to entirely destroy their life instead of telling them they crossed some boundaries. Assuming these charges are legitimate, this would have given Ben the chance to understand what they did was wrong and why it was wrong. More importantly, it would have given a much more credible account of her abuse, both for the Jezebel article and law enforcement.

This just reeks of opportunism, both on her account and Jezebel's, considering the album came out last week.

>>72868866
>Assuming these charges are legitimate, this would have given Ben the chance to understand what they did was wrong and why it was wrong. More importantly, it would have given a much more credible account of her abuse, both for the Jezebel article and law enforcement.
>
>This just reeks of opportunism, both on her account and Jezebel's, considering the album came out last week.
or ben could upload the text and end this mess

>>72868767
Yeah I get that but phone calls still exist. I can't see logical human beings just dropping them without asking for context, even in the face of public outrage. Polyvinyl would have looked just as good posting something like "We have contacted the band and want to make things clear but take these accusations very seriously and blablabla.

Ofc this is assuming people are acting logically and that isn't the case most of the time in case of crisis. Anyway, it does feel rough that this happened so quickly, but public opinion is a difficult thing and being a musician is entirely based on public opinion. SJW or not, everybody panders to a crowd and they allegedly did something that is completely against what they stood for. Imagine the lead singer of Skrewdriver dating an arab girl :)

Liv knew about this for a while and did nothing. His "I didn't know how to tell Ben" thing is not an acceptable way to deal with assault allegations against your band.

>>72868886
I agree with that, but I doubt it will happen at this point. Their reputation is beyond repair, and they would be accused of deleting messages anyways. It would only bring them more embarrassment.

>>72868934
>they would be accused of deleting messages anyways
how just upload the conversation between the girl. they nothing to lose

>>72868952
That's what both of us would have done at the start lol. Fuck privacy. But you know that wouldn't be enough. For the 'powerless' victim of a serial rapist, it would take video evidence of her explicitly saying she is lying to exonerate Ben in the public court.

>>72869035
>But you know that wouldn't be enough
would be a start b4 p4k and the rest of the no news journalists waiting for a scoop so they can pay rent.

>>72869085
The vultures have already had their fill. A real journalist would be trying to get these messages from one of the parties, explaining to either side how this would help uncover the truth. But real journalists are too busy reporting on things that actually matter, like Drumpf and video games

>>72854150
apple didnt drop them
their label did, and requested the music to be taken down from streaming, which they can probably legally do anytime

>>72854443
spotify has to take the music down if the label requests them to

>>72865059
>>72865174
>>>/hpn/