Why did Elliott Smith never become mainstream?

>>72816766
He was. He played at the fucking Oscars.

That's before they murdered him.

He's not that obscure or anything.
Probably not a huge success because he's a depressing fuck and huge successes are more "fun"

>>72816766
he was

He soundtracked one of the biggest films of the 90's and played at the Oscars. He was pretty mainstream as far as singer songwriters go.

>>72816781
Yeah but after the Oscars he faded into obscurity really. That was his peak of popularity and most people didn't even know him then.

>>72816897
>Yeah but after the Oscars he faded into obscurity really. That was his peak of popularity and most people didn't even know him then.
thats what happen to be EVERYBODY in the mainstream.
do you know vanessa carlton released a album in 2015?

Why did he kill himself?

He's going to be mainstream now after that goddamn Rick and Morty episode. He's going to be the new Smiths for pseudohipsters.

>>72816960
nah. normies don't care anymore

>>72816947
he was recording the best music of his career before he died. it just doesn't make any damn sense

>>72816781
Who's "they?"

His girlfriend?

>>72816897
He was on DreamWorks

Prop didn't want to go along w/ the whole thing.

hence the 'suicide'.

>>72816960
>He's going to be the new Smiths for pseudohipsters.
except the smiths have an attractive frontman

>>72816970
I think murdered is the word you are looking for.

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>>72816947
>kill himself?

>>72816933
>vanessa carlton
Upon looking her up I have no idea who she is.

can imagine one of his songs coming on a pop radio station? everyone always sings about love, sex, nebulous fun and happiness. then elliott comes on, singing about self loathing and all the bad parts of life.

yeah that's why. i love elliott smith but there's a reason normal people don't like him, and it's really obvious.

>>72816994
>DreamWorks
aka David Geffin


Cobain was on a Geffen label too


just sayin

>>72817016
see
she was mainstream and had a number hit. but you don't know her. ppl in the mainstream come and go

>>72816826
>>72816933
I remember that time, he really wasn't mainstream at all. He didn't even really get songs on the radio.

He was basically that guy on the oscars that shows up every two or three years where everyone goes "who the fuck is this?"

>>72817109
yeah okay tell me how many indie/underground artists get to appear at the oscars.

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>>72817033
oshi

>>72817109
he played the Oscars only once.

>>72816994
like this dude said. I don't think ES really wanted to be famous.

But by that time he had signed with Geffin, moved to L.A., and wound up dead.

Really makes you think.

>>72817126
Ones that have Ben Affleck and Matt Damon as fans.

Nigger you weren't even alive. Stop talking about shit you know nothing about.

Elliott Smith is very overrated

>>72817169
thats mainstream bud

>>72817181
Mainstream requires that you actually be played on the radio.

>>72817205
>Mainstream requires that you actually be played on the radio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e43RQOQSM

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For 'indie' singer/songwriters, he was pretty mainstream. Plenty of famous people were fans of him, and his score for the movie earned hi9m an appearance on the Oscars. He also had a lasting influence, which is why we are talking about him over a decade since his death. I think it boils down to he didn't try to change his sound too drastically to become mainstream, and the subject matter wasn't mainstream enough.

>>72817228
>some college radio station in buttfuck nowhere Australia
You tried.

>>72817264
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0Q3gNqpwFY

>>72816781
>>72817022
Performing at the Oscars and being in Good Will Hunting gave Elliott the public appearance of stereotypical whiny sad-sack indie singer, which wasn't helped by the fact that news outlets started writing about his earlier suicide attempt and substance abuse
This was around the time XO was released, I'm sure if the mainstream viewed him a little more favorably he could have been pretty huge

>>72816947
>>72816970
>Why did a severely mentally unstable man kill himself while putting together the most ambitious, highest-stakes project of his career shortly after going cold turkey off of multiple abused substances with no medication of any kind?
really makes you think.................
not to mention: not only was he a month away from seeing his abusive stepfather for the first time in years but also in his last days his close friends say he recalled some pretty bad/repressed memories for the first time and was pretty sure he had been molested
I'd probably kill myself too

>>72817274
>morning becomes eclectic
>mainstream
K Records will be happy to learn they made the big time then.

>>72817296
thanks for correcting the record!

>>72817171
Because music that sounds incomparably good to other music and is lyrical genius is overrated. Are you 10?

>>72817317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmHDSuTYmIk

>>72817317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAfPfcwgUM8

>>72817317
He was on KRS, not K

>really makes you think.................
not to mention: not only was he a month away from seeing his abusive stepfather for the first time in years but also in his last days his close friends say he recalled some pretty bad/repressed memories for the first time and was pretty sure he had been molested
I'd probably kill myself too

and this is all most likely BULLSHIT

>>72816978
(((them)))

>>72817327
>>72817339
this argument is utterly autistic.

Oldfag here. He was on one of the biggest labels in the world, and the marketing push that applies. That said, he never entirly 'broke through'.

That's it. There is nothing more to it.

>>72817296
I don't believe a word of this.

>>72817341
>He was on KRS, not K
I know. My point was that if being on Morning Becomes Eclectic is mainstream then half of K Records can claim they hit the big time.

>>72817371
>>72817379
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSqumt6Bt-g

Elliott was a talented artist that never fully took advantage of it. His discography is pretty samey from beginning to end. I'm not saying any of it is bad, but you have to admit that most of his albums are exhausting; 12+ songs that follow the same basic motifs, tempos, sense of melody.

Figure 8 and From a Basement on the Hill showed him beginning to extend his reach, but we'll never know if he'd have made that one tight, smoothed-out album he probably had in him somewhere.

>>72817341
Why don't you learn to reply to posts retard

Anyway you and you >>72817371
Everything my post is common knowledge and was echoed by everyone close to him except for the part about molestation. It doesn't really matter what you believe

>>72816978
I know people close to the situation. They don't know for sure what happened, but are deeply suspicious of the 'girlfriend' who they said was addicted to crack. They do not believe he killed himself.

Beyond that I don't know.

>>72817404
>everything that mtv played in the 90s was mainstream
Confirmed for teenager.

>>72817426
>common knowledge
kek, aka reported in the press.

>>72817452
you can stop arguing with yourself shill.

Find a less annoying way of trying to distract us from talking about what really happened to ES.

>>72817452
oh pls tell me how mtv was playing Les Rallizes Dénudés all day
everybody on mtv was mainstream

>>72817486
No, it wasn't. You weren't even alive then.

>>72817324
well Elliott is none of that. Generic Music and generic lyrics. I used to be a die hard fan from 13 to 17, I've heard every single Elliott Smith song at least 100 times, and now, I don't think it's nothing special. just people who think vulnerable=good, which it doesnt.

>>72817416
you are among the biggest plebs in this or any music related website.

>>72816766
didnt he perform at the oscars?

>>72817513
i was

>>72817457
As in "reported by his close friends, family and people he worked with".

You don't even have to believe the press. Just go look at the concerts from early in 2003 where he's audibly hammered and can barely play the guitar. Nobody does a 180 straight from that to perfect sobriety without a lot of struggle especially not someone who talked about jumping off a cliff in interviews

>>72817658
>Nobody does a 180 straight from that to perfect sobriety without a lot of struggle especially not someone who talked about jumping off a cliff in interviews
dan barrett

>>72817658
>>72817658
I know people who he was playing with. I even met Smith a couple of time.

I don't give a half a fuck about the lies in the press.

>>72817264
Nigga Triple J is the government funded official youth music station of Australia.

>>72817616
Well, thanks for the conversation.

>>72817658
you should make an HBO documentary to officicy this bullshit. Like they did with Cobain.

>>72817671
>without a lot of struggle
Dan was probably severely depressed for the better part of a decade
Also he's straight-edge

>>72817697
Okay dipshit, I guess you know more than me. Why don't you tell us how it went? Obviously you're smart enough not to believe the lies in the press because you know people who played with him, so tell us why a severely mentally unstable man with years of public substance abuse and depression couldn't have killed himself because he was happier for a few weeks.

>>72817616
this.

>>72817775
this nigga is desperate as fuck to sell the official story of what happened to Eliott Smith

Yeas, nigga lots of people kick drugs and then kill themselves by stabing a knofe tghrough their chest.

happens all the time


who could question such a story?


>severely mentally unstable man


maybe he was just dehydrated like Kanye?

fuck off

>>72817857
>by stabing a knofe tghrough their chest.
no hesitation wounds either. it's bullshit.

>>72817857
>nigga
goddamn this is painful

>lots of people kick drugs and then kill themselves by stabing a knofe tghrough their chest
Most people don't literally jump off cliffs to try and kill themselves or abuse alcohol and heroin for fuckin years at a time

If you think I'm desperate to sell the story then maybe you shouldn't have started an argument about it.
I never even said he definitely killed himself there's a pretty good chance he was murdered. It just gets exhausting reading the armchair detectives on /mu/ thinking they're geniuses because they read a conspiracy theory about Elliott Smith on tumblr

Why are people getting so angry at each other?

>>72818025
Again, i know people who knew him. None of them believe he killed himself.

And the media LIES. It's not a conspiracy. Look at things like Buzz Osborne's comments on that Nirvana documentary.

That, and the story is insane. Just use common sense. No one irl plunges a knife through their heart because they're sad. PUHleeze.

>>72818047

First time on 4chan?

>>72818122
Also the L.A. music industry is dirty as fuck. Not surprisingly it happened there.

>>72818125
Elliott just doesn't seem like the artist to have such an angry fan base that constantly argues over his murder and whatever. Seems like every Elliott thread devolves into people getting angry at each other while talking about murder conspiracies. Of course this is 4chan though.

>>72818212

Again

>4chan

Other then that though, he was for sure murdered as the official story makes no god damn sense. It's natural to get angry about a massive conspiracy that involves a senseless murder and the people who planned it getting away with it scott free.

>>72816766
he was, in a non mainstream way

>>72817416
Have you listened to XO or figure 8? Compare Clementine and no name 3 to fucking Bled White or L.A?

Dude evolved his sound a ton

>>72816947
Some theorize he was murdered based on certain pieces of evidence. I believe it was ruled as a suicide but ehhh... you never know

>>72817441
It makes sense

>she was the only one with him when he died
>she was the last one to see him alive, and the one to discover his body
>he somehow stabbed himself in the chest TWICE with no hesitation marks
>she even admitted they just had an argument
>the "suicide note" had Elliott's name misspelled

Hmm....

>>72819351
>name misspelled
how, she was his girlfriend

With all the drug addict/abuse talk here, could it be possible that he was killed by an intruder/drug dealer in his house while his girlfriend was in the shower?

>>72819638
Possibly. She did hear him scream, which is uncharacteristic of a suicide (conversely, it could be a lie if you go along with the gf theory) but what would be this drug dealer's motive?

>>72819482
and noted crack addict who was in a rush?

It does seem kind of off, Buy Elliott tried to commit suicide before in a really spontaneous manner ( hrew himself off the side of a road that had a steep drop and landed in a tree)
with that in mind it's not impossible that he was at his wits end, especially now that he was clean but at risk of jail time. may have been too much

>>72819482
>>72819351
According to wikipedia, the Coroners Report misspelled what was written on the note.

As in, the physical note itself said "Elliott" but when they transcribed it, they wrote "Elliot"

Either way, the lack of hesitation marks, and the fact that he was stabbed twice is suspect as fuck.

Did they do handwriting analysis? Did they do any forensic simulation? Stab angle, that type of thing?

The idea of Smith doing well, could just be "a pink cloud" phase. Maybe he really wasn't that great, and the argument pushed him over the edge. He was known for self mutilation, so are two stab wounds really out of the question? For a guy who was known for hurting himself, and suicidal? Idk.

Chiba could very well have gotten away with murder. But what's the motive? What was the argument about? There's no why.

At any rate, the case remains officially inconclusive. I don't know why it was never investigated further.

>>72819673

Elliott was a heroin addict and would order often thousands of dollars of heroin from dealers all over California, my theory is that he forgot to pay one dealer and was in hiding, and the dealer got frustrated, heard Elliott and Jen fighting, realized Elliott was home and came in through an open door, stabbed Elliott and ran out.

>>72819728
Someone on here a while back said something keen to the effect of "Nobody wants to know." As in Elliott could be hell to be around, so nobody was glad he died, but they were relieved that it was over. Nobody pushed for justice, and the only suspect is the only person who will ever know the truth.

>>72819728
>Did they do handwriting analysis? Did they do any forensic simulation? Stab angle, that type of thing?
>At any rate, the case remains officially inconclusive. I don't know why it was never investigated further.
Fucking LAPD. This happens all the time with murder cases there. Most "unsolved" murders come down to negligence.

>Chiba could very well have gotten away with murder. But what's the motive? What was the argument about? There's no why.
Not to sound "redpilled" or anything, but women can sometimes just be evil as fuck. We don't know what the inner workings of that relationship were like.

>>72819739
This sounds like a possiblility, and honestly holds more water than the gf theory. But not to rationalize the actions of a heroine dealer, but what would the point be in killing him? Sure would have to be a lot of money to compell someone to do that, even someone as irrational as a drug dealer. I mean, once he's dead its not like you're getting your money anyway. Unless life is like Breaking Bad and you need to "send a message" or whatever. Plus, he'd have to fake a suicide note in Elliott's handwriting (once again, why the fuck do this in the first place if you're this alleged drug dealer?)

>>72819928
>Most "unsolved" murders come down to negligence.
kek. correcting the record intensifies.

>>72816766
Elliott didn't exactly make top 40, mainstream stuff. His stuff was never meant for the big stage.

I'm not saying that to be disparaging, that's just the way it is. He didn't write stuff you could jump around or sing along to in a big arena or a club. And the subject matter wasn't fit for the midday "single of the week" type radio programs. Pavement was poppier than Smith, and even then, they were never gonna get Nirvana money.

He was still successful though, much more so than most would expect for a guy who did what Smith did.