Beatles solo feud

Yoko

Ringo honestly

>>72784519

George. He had the most successful solo career.

Paul did nothing wrong. John made the better hitpiece songs.

>>72784551
T. H. I. S.

>>72784519
Paul, but Imagine is pretty good record. Even with /pol/ tier embarrassments such as Gimme Some Truth.

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>>72784519
George Harrison. Everyone had mediocre to bad solo careers post-1972 except for George. The only one of his I don't care for is Gone Troppo.

>>72784817
>>72784717
Is he a madman?

Just to clear things up, they were all shitty people. They were all drug addicts who fucked eachother's wives and/or cheated on their own. None of them were "good guys".

>>72784864
what about paul and ringo though

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>>72784838
the maddest

>>72784864
Paul and George never did anything than pot post '70

John was a junky and Ringo was a cokehead

>>72784897
>Paul
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Toot_and_a_Snore_in_%2774

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>>72784883
*blocks your path*

>>72784909

""Stand By Me" – 2:18
Mostly Lennon complaining about the sound in his headphones and reminiscing about how it was better half an hour ago.
"Stand By Me" 3:41
Lennon complains about the sound again, saying that it was better two hours ago.
"Stand By Me" 6:04
Because of Lennon's complaints, the studio has changed the microphone levels on the recording itself (rather than the performers' headphones), and most of the lead vocals can no longer be heard."

Jesus Christ

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>>72784934
Imagine how hard this mother fucker must have been to work with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2iR54dnw5U

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>>72784519
George had the best solo album post beatles.

Makes me think that there would have been a 'George Era' if they had stuck together for a few more years before breaking up.

>>72785050
George was literally the best songwriter of the group 1968+
I think PaulJohn were resentful of him. They were petty egoists.

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>>72784934
>The jam session proved not very productive musically. Lennon sounds to be on cocaine and is heard offering Wonder a snort on the first track, and on the fifth, asks someone to give him a snort. This is also the origin of the album name, where John Lennon clearly asks: "You wanna snort, Steve? A toot? It's goin' round". In addition, Lennon seems to be having trouble with his microphone and headphones.

>>72785050
>George had the best solo album post beatles.
You posted the only good one, and half of it is filler you fucktard
>>72785098
Nah

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>>72785144
>half of it is filler you fucktard
Terrible taste

>>72785098
I think Paul still had it, but it was John who really dropped off and Paul still had loyalty to John as his song writing companion. I think it's a shame that they didn't give more support to George because he wrote a string of really great songs and melodies 1968 onwards.

>>72785161
>Apple Jam
>good taste
Nah

So what's your guy's favorite non ATMP George? I like 33 1/3

>>72785176
That's basically bonus tracks, it's not even part of the main album.

>>72784972
Fuck Yoko is annoying

>>72785144
Lennon produced absolute schlock in his solo career, his biggest concern was making daisy chains with Yoko and sniping at Paul in his songs and interviews. And Paul sat around being depressed that the Beatles were over for the first part of the 70's. None of the Beatles really produced great stuff post Let It Be, but George's was the best, then Paul and lastly John.

>>72785232
>If I convince myself of it, it's true
>>72785256
>Lennon produced absolute schlock in his solo career,
I guess you must not have heard Plastic ono Band, Imagine, Mind Games and Double Fantasy

I would recommend them anon if you are a Beatles fan

>>72784519
John was right that Paul's music was lightweight as fuck and that he had his head up his ass, but he didn't have to be such a prick about it.

>>72785293
>Plastic ono Band
Fucking KEK. You dump on ATMP then recommend Double Fantasy? Oh I am a laffin

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>>72785256
This album is kino, sir

>>72785319
Not an argument

>>72785293
>Imagine
>Plastic ono Band

Like I said, schlock.

Imagine has got to be one of the most corniest, gaudy songs ever to be put to words.

>>72785050
Which is one-third boring jams with novelty titles.

>>72785298
>lightweight as fuck
Such as?
>Silly Love Songs
A masterpiece touching on Brian Wilson, but with more disarming self distance
>Let em In
More profound life-affirming lyrics than anything John ever wrote

>>72785113
Reading about this bootleg was the first time I found out that Stevie Wonder did coke. For some reason, there's always something surreal to me about blind guys doing hard drugs. It's like Ray Charles shooting up - how the fuck did he manage it? Stevie Wonder's face entirely covered in white powder is a hilarious mental image.

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>>72784972

>>72785381
just ignore him, Paul was the ideas man

>>72785322
This is actually a great album.

>>72785371
>schlock
But Isn't It A Pity and My Sweet Lord isn't?.
totpkek half that album is schlock. Then go listen to Somewhere In England faggot.
>Imagine has got to be one of the most corniest, gaudy songs ever to be put to words.
See: isn't It a Pity

>>72785381
Well, no, Silly Love Songs is one of the only ones I can actually defend, because it's self-aware. I'm more talking about stuff like, say, Monkberry Moon Delight.

>>72785429
>Dumps on ATMP
>Recommends Somewhere in England
this has to be a troll

>>72784551
i mean, he never really feuded in the first place
does that mean he wins? either way he doesn't play into this

>>72784717
George had 17 #1 albums, two of which were solo records
Paul has 22 #1 albums, four of which were solo records
George had around 20 million units sold with projects outside of the Beatles
Paul managed to sell more than five times that amount with just Pipes Of Peace
:///

rule of thumb never trust people who say george had the best solo career

>>72785479
Depends on your definition of success. I think there's more to it than sheer quantity of records sold.

>>72785462
>>Recommends Somewhere in England
To hear more examples of schlock
Can you not read?

I'm pissed that George stopped working with Phil Spector after ATMP. Such a great team.

>>72785479
Not him but this is a retarded argument. More sales doesn't mean better. Pipes of Peace had a single featuring Michael in his prime with a killer music video accompanying it, of course it sold.

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>>72785429
t. John Lennon

>>72785522
t. Out of arguments

>>72785514
This is 2017, populist fallacies are making a comeback.

>>72785445
You really want to deny a guy a chance to chill and make an album with his wife in the countryside, after trying to run the worlds biggest band with a heroin addict and his crazy nip lover for five years?

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>>72785498
he may not have had the best solo career but he's still the best beatle

What's the more fedora opinion, George was best or Ringo was best? Probably George since the Ringo people are being ironic (I hope)

>>72785511
It kinda sounded like messy shit tho
>>72785546
>Ah Hinduism! forget my earthly possessions, I don't need em
>But not my mansion and Rolls Royce collection, that I can keep
Nah

I just recently heard Mind Games and the amount of filler on that album is shocking.

>>72785574
The same is true for many paul albums, be fair

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>>72785567

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>>72785429
>mfw hearing the original version of isn't it a pity after hearing the galaxie 500 cover first and loving it
some change in tone makes all the difference in the world it seems

>>72785511
It was Spector who was onwards to ruining Leonard Cohen and the Ramones I believe

John >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything by the bealtes and beatles solo projects

this is a fucking fact

>>72785371
>Like I said, schlock.
your magic autist word doesn't make it so. plastic ono band and imagine are easily among the best beatles' solo albums. i would put them in the top 3 along with all things must pass

>Imagine has got to be one of the most corniest, gaudy songs ever to be put to words.
there is no way you understand what the word 'gaudy' means. to use in that context is just bizarre. and you obviously wouldn't feel that way if it hadn't been for the song's ridiculous reception. you probably wouldn't even be aware of it

it really sounds like you're just a knee-jerk reaction to john lennon. which isn't terribly new or interesting. it's just as boring to hear "dude, he fucking beat his wife" for the millionth time as it is to hear about what a savior he was. i've yet to hear you say one word about music

>>72785514
>George had the most successful solo career
>Successful
>Success
Both critically and financially McCartney was miles ahead
George has Living In The Material World and All Things Must Pass
McCartney has Band On The Run, Pipes Of Peace, McCartney I/II, Chaos And Creation, Venus And Mars
Plenty of shit in both of their careers, but at least McCartney released more than a couple of good albums afterwards, however Harrison's Live In Japan is phenomenal

>>72785595
t. Yoko Ono

>>72785545
Not saying Paul's stuff is worthless, just limited.

>>72785595
lol

>>72785579
Yeah, but they've all got tunes.

>>72785613
I never said Paul didn't have the best solo career. I said referencing Pipes of Peace to drill your point home was really dumb. Paul piggybacked Michael so damn hard in the 80s.

>>72785632
So does Mind games.

>>72785592
i for one really like spector's work with cohen even if it's obviously highly flawed
yea tho that ramones album was lame. rock n roll radio is a great song though

>>72785613
And even though Paul has released a lottt of shit (Tug Of War/Press To Play/Driving Rain/Speed Of Sound/Wild Life/Red Rose) at least he has a hell of a lot of fucking 10/10 singles from them, he hasn't ever released an absolutely awful album unlike Harrison's Brainwashed/Gone Troppo/Somewhere In England

Lennon, unlike McCartney, had tried to take his listeners forward in his collaborations with Yoko Ono, but they didn't want it. His inspiration was hemmed-in, so sometimes he did routine material.

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>>72785621
And yet Lennon was the one obsessed with trying to take Paul down like a kid angry with having been scolded by the teacher.

>>72785639
Not ones he hadn't written better before.

>>72785679
>implying Paul didn't undermine John by quitting The Beatles before he could, just to promote his own solo album
Low blow bro

>>72785694
Just like Paul

>>72785633
Michael was famously the one who gave Paul the call on Christmas Day asking if he'd like to "write some hits".
Paul offered Michael the song So Bad and he didn't like it so McCartney released it himself on Pipes Of Peace alongside.
Paul was the guy who mentored Michael into going into publishing which is when he bought the Beatles' catalogue rights.
Paul had a song on Thriller, Michael had two songs on Pipes Of Peace (of which McCartney offered MJ The Girl Is Mine)
Totally dickriding

>>72785672
>had tried to take his listeners forward in his collaborations with Yoko Ono, but they didn't want it
>with Yoko Ono
>but they didn't want it

hmmmm

John = Reddit
Paul = Facebook
Ringo = Fox News comment section
George = Tumblr

Brian = our guy

>>72785706
That doesn't work, Paul's melodic invention is clearly greater. Most of Mind Games is just stuff he put on previous albums, slightly tweaked.

>>72785672
McCartney has also released an ambient electronics album (The Liverpool Sound Collage) and some avant works of his own, he just wasn't as much of a pretentious NY art cunt as John with the screaming and noise shit

>>72784717
George is automatically the worst Beatle for cucking the public out of Carnival of Light, it could literally be the most incredible piece of music ever and it would still be a disappointment because of how delayed it's been.
He's not even fucking alive anymore and his 2nd wife now keeps it from being released at the annual Beatles conference or whatever.

>>72785402
retards and handicapped people have sex too.

>>72785679
John wasn't a very good person. Despite that, I think his solo career is of slightly more note. He had some solid singles, and I think Plastic Ono Band is a good rock album, nothing life-changing.

In all, no Beatle's solo career amazes me. McCartney is fun, Ram/Band on the Run have their moments. All Things Must Ass has a few great songs and some OK jams.

>>72785744
>Brian = our guy
>not George Martin

for shame

>>72785747
Paul's work is farrr superior on a melodic level, his ear and analysis of exactly went into his songs was way beyond Lennon

>>72785785
Paul knew what sounded good.

John knew what he thought sounded good.

>>72785728
Seriously, if the Beatles had really changed the world, their serious stuff together - as opposed to the more playful or documentary elements in what they did - would have been better received. The way they were treated was the 60s' blue screen of death. "Project cancelled", as Bowie later sang.

>>72785774
McCartney has Ram, Band On The Run, Venus And Mars, Chaos And Creation, Flaming Pie and McCartney, John just has two slightly more seminal albums whilst Macca pumped out dozens of incredible singles for mostly mediocre albums

>>72785722
then Michael cucked Paul with the entire Beatles discography.

>>72785806
If you don't think Beatles changed the world and music then I don't know what to think.

>>72785722
Are you trying to suggest Paul McCartney was responsible for Michael's success? Are you high?

>>72785698
john had already quit the band like a year before though

>>72785760
McCartney's avant-garde shit is done to show he can do it, not to really do it. It's part of his megalomaniac "I can top everyone in every genre!" trip he got into in the last years of the Beatles.

>>72785766
>his 2nd wife now keeps it from being released
.. because George didn't want it to. She's respecting her dead husband's wishes. And to be frank, if you read the description of what Carnival of Light actually was, it was probably garbage and that's why George vetoed it.

>>72785767
That's slightly different though.

>>72785785
I agree.

>>72785861
its literally the same. theres nothing surreal about a blind guy doing hard drugs, its just that you see them as lesser and maybe more bening people, that dont do raunchy stuff as the rest does.

>>72785815
McCartney's craft is always decent, whereas John's songs you often have to be in a cynical or depressed rut to truly appreciate them. Because they're more intellectual (even if I don't/can't always relate to his problems), I'm more likely to come back to them. I haven't heard all the McCartney albums you listed, but I imagine a good number of them I'd think "Oh, this is nice," and then when the melody is worn out I'd never listen to it again. He never makes you head turn with a twisted line like "I used to be cruel to my woman/I beat her and kept her apart from the things that she loved," however sick it may be to entertain.

>>72785826
But they didn't, did they? The racism and philistinism Yoko received was off the hook. The BBC now has a special radio station so that white indie listeners don't have to hear any black music by living artists, and vice versa. Twentysomething lads want their music to sound just like grandad's. Nobody listens to jazz. Lennon sang "you better free your mind instead"; people's minds are more securely manacled than ever.

>>72785843
This. Abbey Road was basically Paul flexing his muscles in front of the others band members and the public.

>>72785859
If Carnival of Light got released, everyone would realize that the Beatles were a potentially avant-garde group undone by greed, and that in relation to what they'd already done, the other Beatles' anti-What's the New Mary Jane?, anti-Revolution 9, anti-Yoko thing was pure racism and sexism.

>>72785922
and it's their best album

>>72785927
The power of Carnival of Light is NEVER hearing it and only speculating how cool it might be. Trust me, we don't want to hear it. It's the Duke Nukem Forever of music

>>72785922
Exactly.

>>72785922
What parts of it?

>>72785989
like all of side 2

most of that was Paul

>>72785766
he cucked the public out of the third beatles anthology song too

>>72785944
I dunno. I think if Revolver were made in 1969 with the much more advanced recording techniques of that time it would be unanimously their best. Abbey Road is fantastic but it's also the first that was made in true stereo with that as the only focus.

>>72786010
For me, it's Abbey Road and Revolver

>>72785944
It's not. Other Beatles albums feature carefree-sounding songs about a variety of themes. Abbey Road features neurotic songs about being carefree. It's lush, but it sounds like the effort it took.

>>72786007
The medley is kind of a joint thing, I guess it seems more Paul because he gets the finale. Aside from Bathroom Window, I prefer John's part (all of it's good). I've actually always thought of Abbey Road as the most democratic Beatles album.

>>72786027
Toss in White Album and that's my holy trinity.

>>72786046
my nibba

>>72786045
>I've actually always thought of Abbey Road as the most democratic Beatles album.
Agree totally. A very fitting end for the group.

>>72786032
>Other Beatles albums feature carefree-sounding songs about a variety of themes. Abbey Road features neurotic songs about being carefree.

Did this sound clever in your head? Because it's nonsense.

>>72786010
I think this is it, Abbey Road sounds a lot newer even than what immediately preceded it, so it's easier for people to get into. Hearing them invent their own sound worlds is a lot more interesting to me than hearing them use then-new off-the-shelf synth sounds because it's the expensive new toy.

>>72786100
No it's not. Abbey Road's songs protest too much. Think of the lyrics, think of the arrangements.

>>72786141
Explain your thinking, tell us where to look

>>72786078
It's designed to sound like that, but to take one example, Paul had two songs by the other two main songwriters followed by Maxwell's Silver Hammer. Do you not see the implied hostility in that?

>>72786184
Not really. I think you're reading too much into it. Paul had been doing "silly" songs for years. It was just his personality.

>>72786100
What he's saying isn't totally unfounded; Abbey Road isn't super deep lyrically, but the music is good enough that it doesn't really hurt it in my opinion. Quaint little story here (Maxwell), nonsense/Chuck ripoff song there (Come Together), but it doesn't make the melodies any less infectious or Martin's arrangements any less pleasing.

>>72786184
How so?

>>72786184
*strong songs, is the point, missed out the most important word.

>>72785908
>The racism and philistinism Yoko received was off the hook.

Didn't realise you were there with them.

It couldn't have had anything to do with the fact that Yoko was partly responsible for breaking up John marriage with Cynthia, who was a long time friend of the other band members from before even their Cavern Club days and then proceeded to force herself into what was previously a exclusive space in the studio. Not to mention she's been an almighty cunt to Jules Lennon since and prevented Mccartney from releasing the anthology versions that he wanted to release, despite many of the songs having taken place before she met John, even things as far back as the Decca audition. Yoko wasn't a nice person, it wasn't racism.

She also said some pretty mean things about Paul, George in interviews after Lennon's death.

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>>72786300
This. Yoko is a living breathing piece of shit who only got to where she is by sucking a Beatle's cock

>>72786300
not to mention Yoko made some certifiably insane decisions like shopping John to other women for no reason/bizarre thinking, not that this makes her an awful person outright but these things add up in your picture of a person

>>72786161
Sun King, Here Comes the Sun and Octopus's Garden are all about happiness in a fantasy setting or seclusion. The lyrics are both insistent and abstract. "The smiles returning to the faces". "Knowing they're happy and they're safe". "Everybody's *laughing*. Everybody's *happy*." Because is about generalizations and drifting off into the ether. Maxwell's Silver Hammer is an aggressively blase song about bludgeoning people to death, which is a big, apparently accidental, passive-aggressive hint that the group is going to be all smiles whatever's going on.

>>72786228
>How so?

Because the sequence is Lennon and Harrison's best work followed by a deliberately shit joke with a very fiddly arrangement. It's either "my worst outstrips your best" or "I'll play nice and not hit you with my best", but either way, it has a nasty aftertaste.

>>72786425
You're reading way too deep into these things my friend.

>>72786425
...do we know that Paul had anything to do with the sequencing there? Sort of assumed that was Martin/the engineers' problem. Paul did influence the placement of Her Majesty, but only because the tape editor was compelled by outside forces not to discard it.

>>72786300

The fact that you can be enthusiastic about the Beatles' music yet still believe in the "homewrecker" as a concept is testimony to how they failed to change the world. Cynthia was someone John got trapped into marrying; he had betrayed her with hundreds of groupies, sometimes in the same room as them. She didn't force herself into the studio, Lennon wanted her there. Julian Lennon - please, don't waste people's time by talking about the guy. I trust her to protect his legacy more than I trust McCartney. McCartney referred to her as "[Lennon's] Jap tart".

"wasn't a nice person" - boo fucking hoo.

>>72786425
I actually just think Paul thought the song was better than it probably actually was, but your narrative sounds cool.

>>72786523
t. Yoko Ono

>>72786519
Everything on the Beatles' albums by that stage was their decision, are you kidding me? They owned the company they were recording for.

>>72786450
All I can tell you is, it's not a convincingly happy record to me, and yet it goes on about being happy more than any other record they did.

>>72786523
>Julian Lennon - please, don't waste people's time by talking about the guy.

Yeah just ignore fucking his son.

P.S Yoko was a great person never did anything wrong and the muse of certainly not a cunt John Lennon.

>>72786376
Not really, she was making sure he had a girlfriend who wouldn't ruin their relationship. After he fucked a girl at a party while Yoko and others could hear in the next room, it was clear that he was going to have affairs and casual sex, it was just a question of making sure that the marriage wasn't split up by it, and that it wasn't someone who would, for example, lead him massively back into heroin. She took a very level-headed bourgeois approach. Compare the communal arrangements that were quite common at the time (eg. The Incredible String Band) and it seems quite respectable, even.

>>72786575
His whole angle is nonsense - he was loyal to his mother who hated Yoko's guts, of course he's going to get on her shit list.

She was and is no worse a person than any/all of the Beatles.

>>72786601
Yoko was good for John, but bad for the Beatles.

MOTHER!

I DIDNT HAAAAVE YOOOOOOOOOOOU

>>72786527
The combination of the song's peppy unpleasantness, the fact that he apparently got them to do a huge number of takes for specific parts of it, and the fact that he was able to write much better songs immediately before and after this album, all make me think that, consciously or not, a lot of contempt was being expressed there.

FAAAAAAAAAATHERRRRRRRRRR

I NEVER LEFT YOOOUOUOUUOUOUOOUOUOUO

I JUST GOTTA TELL YOU

>>72785843
>>72785922
The same Paul which quietly to little credit constructed the avant-garde parts of Lennon songs like Tomorrow Never Knows, A Day In Life and so on?

Its no coincidence that Lennon post Beatles is pretty much straight rock with little interest in experiments. McCartney just always took an interest in experimenting with other genres and Lennon was along for the ride.

>>72786644
The Beatles were bad for themselves

goooooodbye ai aiiiiiiiii

>>72786554
That's not what I meant. On vinyl, song placements would be more practical decisions at times due to space limitations. For example, the medley takes up almost an entire side, so that sets that in stone. Then they led off both sides with single material, with the rest of it basically arbitrary. "I Want You" goes at the end of side 1 because it's a long song, that's standard. That leaves Paul's songs and Octopus's Garden, the ordering of which doesn't have much bearing on anything.

>>72786601
Yeesh, that makes sense I guess, but it's not much of a marriage at that point,

>>72786741
I won't deny this. They would have broken up sooner or later no matter what, but I firmly believe if Yoko hadn't entered the picture we would have had them for at least 1-2 more years.

MOMMA DONT GGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>72786764
DADDY COME HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOME

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How could such a good Harrison album have such a shitty cover?

daddy come home

>>72786644
I agree, but I think Paul broke up the Beatles more than anyone, because he insisted on trying to make them something other than a group of composers who played on each other's recordings. The whole Get Back/Let It Be idea clearly didn't work, and was based on arrogance. He wanted them to go on being a group who topped and psyched out others while dominating the mainstream and the underground. The culture itself was making that harder - it had split. Looking at the next decade, Pink Floyd were underground THEN mainstream, Bowie was underground THEN mainstream THEN kinda-underground, nobody could do both simultaneously anymore, and the others knew it.

That said, I don't think breaking up the Beatles was a bad thing. They weren't going to be at the cutting edge of anything any more.

>>72786767
fucking breaks my heart every time

>>72786770
Aesthetics really went downhill in the 80's

>>72786782
If Beatles had gone on a Hiatus for a few years instead of breaking up it could have worked.

But yeah the Let It Be idea didn't really work.

>>72786730
>quietly to little credit
You're incredibly naive if you never noticed how Paul presents his contributions to the public in interviews.

Lennon... look, listen to the four albums that came after Plastic Ono Band. Then listen to his solo albums *and* Yoko's - which Lennon plays on. Lennon towards the end of and post-Beatles is an avant-garde musician. An actual one, not a mainstream musician using it for bragging rights or to add spice to his pop songs. He stopped doing those experiments because he got the point of the kind of thing he and Paul had both started by appropriating. Notice how George used less and less sitar on his records the longer he played and understood the instrument? The same thing happened. The only person still using watered-down versions of avant-garde ideas to garnish top forty songwriting is McCartney.

>>72786554
Dont you think people caught up in the unpleasantness of middle aged life might want to write songs about getting happy because they want to be?

>>72786770
bad cover art is a pleb filter. george is a madman

>>72786758
It's a bourgeois marriage on the French model, and a lot of them work like that pretty happily.

>>72786851
Did you watch a documentary/read a particular book? That explanation was pretty well-nuanced.

>>72786730
John himself even outright accused Paul of trying to "sabotage" SFF by experimenting with it

>>72786761
Why we would want them under Beach Boys-type alienated labor conditions, though?

Yoko didn't make Paul talk to George the way he did recording Hey Jude, which was apparently a turning-point for George. Yoko didn't make Paul think that the Beatles had to top every other group in every genre, including the Band, an entirely dissimilar group, or compete with famous live acts - imagine if the Beatles had actually tried the "Ricky and the Red Streaks" bullshit in the era of Blind Faith, Traffic and Family? It would be a famous debacle. I do wonder if McCartney was doing speed or coke at that time, thinking that a band who had never been known for soloing, with a melodic, shuffling drummer, a guitarist with a thin tone, and a rhythm guitarist who by his own admission had a weak sense of rhythm - a band who had been off the road for nearly four years - could have, with a few months' rehearsal and the right songs, cut it in that culture. He was extremely lucky that the others obstructed it.

>>72786829
>how Paul presents his contributions to the public in interviews

Defensively, because of people like you who undermine his contributions or make the most negative assumptions possible about his motivations? It's like Phillip Norman is posting in this thread.

>>72786875
No, just what I've gathered over the years really.

>>72786829
Lennon after the Beatles is just what he was in the Beatles - a good rocknroller with his own identifiable "voice" and an immediate and personal lyricist although not quite Dylan as he wished to be. Also desperately looking for fame and hipster cred at all times.

There is pretty much no signs whatsoever that Lennon ever had any talent for experimentation or avant-garde apart from possibly in his lyrics. He always looked to collaborators to provide him with ideas and the know-how to realize them: Martin, McCartney, Spector, Ono.

>>72786878
That was later when he felt undermined and paranoid.

>>72786936
No, Paul has been perfectly clear what his ongoing ambitions for the group were. This is the man who timed Hey Jude's fadeout to beat the then-current longest single ever by *one second*.

If Paul had any one key dick move it was the subtle play of writing "Hey Jude," a hit song to John's kid saying "Hey pal, sorry your parents are assholes, let me be your father surrogate."

>>72786983
Oh my god, get a grip.

>>72786956
no.
he was clearly inspired by his times: a revolutionary.

first person to touch my cup will be the winner

>>72786989
Seriously, THAT'S your interpretation? I have nothing to say man..

>>72787058
jude
jew
you be the jewdge

>>72786956
Lennon's collaborations with Ono are full collaborations, not Lennon riding her coattails. These attempts to patronise him are all part of the Beatles' failure, unfortunately.

>>72787075
*yes*

>>72787003
But he did. He sat there timing it. This is on the record. Imagine what kind of person you'd have to be to do that.

>>72786989
You have a point there.

>>72787104
no he doesn't

>>72787104
its rather an easy joke to pull, lol, hardly that nefarious. pop pomp

>>72786956
I don't think he cared much about Dylan, I think he wanted to be a Chuck Berry that sang more about problems in his own demographic. Which is where his usefulness as a songwriter begins and ends, really.

>>72787058
I know it sounds a bit left of center logically, but think about being John in that situation, had John known why Paul wrote it. Like, "Hey Paul, can you mind your own business and let me deal with my own kid?"

>>72787156
jude is a namae with some literary tradition m8. unlikely.

>>72786878
Yupp, McCartney and Martin. Not only SFF, pretty much all his most famous psychedelic stuff. It seems Lennon, being the hipster-Dylan wannabe, was pretty much the vehicle Martin and McCartney used when they wanted to experiment. McCartney being "the cute one" and Martin being the producer geezer.

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We can all agree that Paul was just a machine.

Without Paul's get and go they wouldn't have been as big as they were.

>>72787185
but they notoriously short shifted his productions. hardly experimenting

Does anyone else listen to She's Leaving Home and imagine one of them singing in a suit and the other in a dress, like some scene out of Ren & Stimpy where they're really trying to play up the homosexual connotations?

>>72787170
Paul has gone on record as having changed it from Jules just because it sounded slightly better in song.

>>72787156
>had John known why Paul wrote it

John KNEW that Hey Jude started out as a song to encourage Julian. And he thought that Paul really wrote it about HIM.

>>72787204
Is that supposed to be Paul?

>>72787250
It is Paul

>>72787075
I'm not thinking necessarily of the credited collaborations, but more of him actually nicking the concept of Imagine - his most famous song - from an art book by Ono.

I'm not saying this to take anything away from Lennon - the guy was a genius. But he was the kind of genius who could not quite reach his fullest potential all by himself. He needed to rely on others. It's not all that surprising considering that he was a severe drug and alcohol abuser for much of his career and as could be expected he couldnt manage to stay as skilled or as much in control as much as the people who took a more moderate approach. (e.g. McCartney)

>>72787245
I don't think anyone knew at the time. Most contemporary reviews and analysis go for other interpretations. Paul lied to John and said it was about himself, probably because he knew on some level that it was a bit weird. Then John insisted it was about other things, like Paul writing it about John, which all just goes to show you how much ego factored into all this.

When I say this, I'm not even sure Paul did it totally consciously, I think it was just this passive-aggressive thing he did on autopilot.

>>72787305
But where you getting this nefarious motive from? It literally just started out as a song to cheer up Julian, and it became more abstract because Paul likes applicability. How do you get >>72786989 from that?

>>72787380
The well-documented ongoing bitchiness between the two, which now that I think about it was the original topic here (well it's asking about solo feuds, but we know it didn't start post-Beatles).

>>72787410
So there's no real basis for it. It's not weird for a guy who likes children to write a song to cheer up a kid he cares about. When he lied to John about the origin it's probably less to do with that and more with the fact that John would have been pissed off if he knew that Paul had visited Cynthia and Julian after he forbade the band or anyone in their circle from seeing her after the divorce.

>>72787144
But if anything, it spoils the fun of having a massively long coda if all you want is to claim a record. These kinds of gestures were what he wanted the Beatles to continue in order to do.

>>72787289
But that wasn't an avant-garde recording, though it was an unusual lyric.

>>72787490
I think you're going out of your way to normalize behavior that is quite weird, there. I mean, he's visiting the wife he's seen his friend betray routinely... to commiserate? It does suggest an odd ethical disconnection.

>>72787529
>if all you want is to claim a record

What makes you think that's "all" he wanted, though

Like seriously is it so hard to believe that they just thought it'd be funny to beat the record by one second

>>72787570
Paul was friends with Cynthia though, they all were.

I also think Paul felt bad for Julian.

>>72787490
It's not weird to have friendships with kids outside your family on a certain scale. Having a heart-to-heart with him, telling him encouraging words in person wouldn't have been weird. Writing a song you know is going to be heard by a billion people is a bit weird. And to not respect John's wishes there adds to it, like he couldn't help meddling.

I don't have intense conviction about this, it just fits the pattern in my mind and isn't exactly a fleeting thought; I've come up with this before and had time to mull it over. Both Paul and John used song to respond to one another at times. Everyone probably thought John was being a dick about his marriage/fatherhood; a cursory glance at the circumstances seems to support this. If you're at the friend level like Paul was, you probably would get emotionally charged over seeing Cynthia/Julian getting treated poorly. You'd want to comfort them but you'd also be a bit resentful toward John.

These threads are always good.

>>72787580
No, but then there's all the other one-bettering he wanted to do. It's clear that competing with other bands/acts was a big deal for him.

>>72787585
No, they got on with her, but their attitude to women doesn't seem to have permitted what I'd call friendship.

>>72787635
>>72787580
Yeah it's no secret that Paul was competitive musician, Helter Skelter was written and composed just to put out a gritty sounding rock song before The Who did.

I'm pretty sure in some of his stuff with Wings he had lyric like 'everyones doing better, better than me, and I don't like it' or something to that point.

>>72784519
A person's attitude to this usually depends on whether they think there are too few Beatles records or just the right amount. I hold the latter view.

>>72787542
Its more an indication of how much the flavors of Lennons output was influenced by who was his collaborative partner at the moment. There is some part of Lennons style which is genuinely Lennon. Which is a solid rocker with personal, direct and witty lyrics.

The rest of it he got from whomever he was collaborating with. The musical avant-garde experimentation in some of his songs of the Beatles era was mostly Martin and McCartney.

>>72787599
>And to not respect John's wishes there

Dude, it was fucked up what John did. It's not his place to order who she could or couldn't see.

>>72787682
I think there is just the right amount, but If Paul Mccartney called me up and said 'hey do you wanna listen to this secret Beatles record', you know I'm going to say yes.

>>72787670
It's funny how although a good song, it doesn't at all accomplish what Paul wanted to do because he's just so wimpy.

>>72787697
Agreed, but you have to think about it in the framework of the culture of the time. The Beatles were basically all womanizers but probably respected certain male chauvinistic boundaries, and for Paul to cross that line there would be a "transgression" in relative terms. Like Paul doesn't seem he was as big of an abuser as John (less hitting/screaming), but at the end of the day they probably all operated on roughly the same moral level of fuck-and-fib-about-it, but not your bandmate's/friend's girl, and other scruples based on nebulous Liverpool jock principles.

>>72787759
ehhh, It goes alright. One of my preferred tracks on the White Album. But She's So Heavy on Abbey Road does a better job and doesn't try near as hard as Helter Skelter does.

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Was he really that good of a lead guitarist?

The mental gymnastics by some people in this thread is astonishing. The hate-boner for Paul is so palpable it's like Yoko herself is in here posting. Get a grip.

>>72787899
He had the expertise that comes with as much practice as he probably put in. His effort level was respectable and he was well-rounded. That's also his downfall: he never played anything mindblowing. Here Comes the Sun, great song, but didn't change my life. Within You Without You, wow cool a sitar, OK that was fun, next song.

Glad he existed, won't make my top 20 lists any time soon or anything.

>>72787899
Every great british band of the late 60's to 70's and even touching the 80's had a lead guitarist that was probably better than George, his songwriting gives him the extra cred.

From the Kinks to the Smiths they had better guitarists.

>>72787759
At the time when he wrote Hey Jude McCartney had been seeing upper-class Jane Asher for five years and living with her family. It doesnt seem inconceivable that he strayed somewhat from the old Liverpool Jock principles due to that..

>>72787914
it's only one Anon thinks Yoko dindu nuffin

>>72788016
I don't live in the UK.

What is this old Liverpool Jock thing.

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Which one was the worst.

Also, don't pick Please Please Me, give me an answer.

>>72784864
Paul and Linda are my OTP tho

>>72788038
Please Please Me is fine. I play it the most of the first four, in fact.

Yellow Submarine and Magical Mystery Tour are too easy of targets and hardly count anyway, being more of soundtrack/compilation albums.

I have never been fond of A Hard Day's Night, which itself is a quasi-soundtrack but I will count it. A number of annoying songs there, like And I Love Her.

>>72784864
based beatles

truly /ourguys/

>>72788031
A bitch is a bitch and a dawg is a dawgs best friend

>>72788038
Please Please Me is one of their best, though. The only bad tracks are Boys, Chains, and A Taste of Honey, the rest is great.

Yellow Submarine, which barely counts (as >>72788096 said), is easily their worst.

>>72787759
Great description of their values, I think.

>>72788016
>>72788031
Jock in this sense means what it means in American high schools - they were lads about town. If you think McCartney never fucked anyone else when he was with Asher, you're deluded.

He definitely had affairs during his marriage to Linda too, but nobody, even those of us who don't think he was Heidi, wants to talk about that, because it's too depressing.

>>72787899
The thing is, for most of their history a lead guitarist was not what it became later, listening to their early albums it's often hard to say which is the lead, he's always mixed in with Lennon. George apparently composed ever solo he ever played before coming to the studio - different takes reveal him playing it identically. Yet he apparently played live with Cream without embarrassing himself or Clapton, so he must have had some improvisational capacity.

>>72788008
To be fair, most of those were in bands with only one guitarist. His role wasn't comparable most of the time.

>>72787914
Don't talk such shit, there's no hatred here, only perspective.

>>72789847
*every

>>72784519
Paul

Lennon was a doped up faggot

>>72785546
No Ringo is the best beatle

he's the only one that's true to his heart

>>72784972
DUDE. NO BORDERS. LMAO

>>72784525
fpdp

>>72785747
>Paul's melodic invention is clearly greater
Which is useless if the lyrics and content are pandering meaninglessness
>>72785829
Exactly.

>>72786935
The rooftop concert sounded pretty great tho. Imagine a full concert from that era playing White Album/Let it Be/Abbey Road songs live with Billy Preston. It would've sounded fantastic,

>it's another /mu/ sucks off pauls dick episode
> but he has all the melodies and overall instrumentation
no, johns melodies werent as out there but they are more subtle and atmospheric. he has objectively the best harmony and guitarchordprogressions and on a whole his best songs were just lyrically and creatively richer than most of the other stuff. sure, paul had a hand in many of the instrumentation on lennons songs but for example dear prudence is as typically lennon as it gets.

What I never got was how John felt so offended that Paul included a few digs at him on Ram that he wrote something as scathing as How Do You Sleep, yet he was the one who first swiped at Paul on I Found Out and during his interviews at the time. It just comes off as so bitchy, like he can't take what he dishes out so he goes full character assassination. And I say this as someone who prefers John to Paul.

>>72789787
I'm sure he did. My point though is that he was quasi adopted by "decent upper class people" so assuming that he had not appropriated some of their decent upper class values is a stretch.

>>72784755
gimme some truth is great you fucking fag

>>72784755
Nothing /pol/ about Gimme Some Truth.

By the way, Woman is the Nigga of the World has a really nice emotive vocal performance from him.

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>>72793095
>>72793201
Do you believe in conspiracy theories? Do you think that 'hypocrite' is the most serious charge against a politician? Then InfoWars and Gimme Some Truth might be for you..

>>72793345
>who was nixon

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>>72793345
>you have to agree with the message of the song to think that it's good