/classical/

>>72735635
petzold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPV9tfJNOvY

Post underrated beethoven works

is this /pseud/ general?

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Is this the /manlet/ general?

>>72735947
It is now

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>>72735972
>tfw Mahler could have been happy, had he been tall
>tfw a tall, satisfied Mahler would have not written those magnificent symphonies

Manlethood is basically a pact with the devil: your happiness exchanged for the ambition necessary to reach the highest peaks of art.

>>72735972
>Rachmaninoff was a tall lanklet
>wrote music that was basically just hackwork
Makes you think

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>>72735972
To be fair, anyone who stood next to Klemperer kinda looked like a manlet.

>>72736397
>tfw you will never play under Klemperer's baton as he intimidates you with his sheer virility into denying your HIP inclinations and playing the St Matthew Passion as though it were Mahler.
jdimsa

>>72735635
pls add

https://mega.nz/#F!pWR0zABY!xCwF1rEfXiyEy5HuhTDP0Q

>>72735635
Is there anything greater or more beautiful than Tristan und Isolde?

>>72736884
Beethoven's late sonatas

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>>72736963
>Liszt is a lanklet
>Rachmaninoff is a lanklet
>Prokofiev is a lanklet
>Dvorak was fairly tall

>they were all shit composers

Is ther a single tall decent composer in the Western canon? I'm pretty sure there isn't.

Pic related: a guy that fueled his genius by his sheer manlethood

>>72737026
liszt, prokofiev, and dvorak are good, though

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>>72737035
>he actually believe this

Your lack of taste is both comic and tragic.

>>72737075
ok

>>72737026
Dvorak is good, Prokofiev has his moments.

>>72737026
>Liszt was shit
>Prokofiev was shit
Bad opinions
They are exceptions which prove the rule

>>72737212
>muh arpeggios in fortissimo and fast octaves
>muh violent staccatos

>>72737026
bach

>>72737075
>>72737212
Mention your favourites please.

>>72737345
Bach, Rameau and Beethoven.

>>72737311
Not confirmed.

>>72737260
Liszt's virtuosity does not "compensate" for a lack of compositional craftsmanship but is rather another tool he uses. Dismissing all Liszt as flashy virtuosity because you've only listened to a couple of the Hungarian Rhapsodies is a bad position to take.

I don't rate Prokofiev as highly as Liszt, but he's still a magnificent composer, from his piano concerti (no. 2 manages to synthesise the Russian romantic tradition with his own more angular, modern musical language) to his operas, which are woefully underperformed.

>>72737345
Sounds like you're angling for an ad hominem. I'll not give you the satisfaction

https://youtu.be/mg-kVzDAKxo

>>72737593
All right, there's not much that you like then. Could you answer this question as well: >>72736884

>>72737649
Clearly not, there >>72737653 is proof.

>>72737653
>All right, there's not much that you like then.

You asked for my favourites, was I supposed to start listing every composer I've appreciated in my lifetime?

>Could you answer this question as well

I can't offer alternatives, Tristan und Isolde is my favourite opera in the Western canon.

>>72737026
>posts Ravel
>calls Liszt shit

Ravel would bitch slap you so hard

>>72736884
Parsifal, Pelleas and From the House the Dead

Equal to or just as good, but Tristan is like a world ending and new beginning

>>72736082
>If I can't be as tall as a mountain, I'll climb a metaphorical one and crown myself king

Truly, manlethood is both a blessing and a curse

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>tfw you play in a minor key in an andante - grave tempo and half way in switch to the relative major in the same tempo, and then finish off with a picardy 3rd

>>72737692
>I can't offer alternatives, Tristan und Isolde is my favourite opera in the Western canon.
Me too, I always cry like a little baby at least twice during the opera. Was hoping to find something at the same level, doesn't have to be opera, but unfortunately chances aren't high indeed.
Favourite recording? Mine is definitely Karajan's 1972. Sound quality is definitely flawed (really hate this) and conducting at places has been better, but Vickers IS Tristan, destroying everyone else including Melchior and every other recording by a LONG shot. Imo Dernesch surpasses every other Isolde as well, and I get the criticism how Vickers is too dominant in comparison to her, suggesting that a stronger singer, e.g. Nilsson, would be more appropriate. I don't agree. Dernesch is beautiful and intelligent singer and she plays the role perfectly, not as steely as Nilsson for example. Everyone is fantastic actually.

>>72735635
How about listening to contemporary classical music you literal faggot?

>>72738158
who says we don't?

>the ending of Cunning Little Vixen
I cri evrytiem

>>72738050
>and every other recording by a LONG shot.
kinda doubt you've heard every recording of the piece

>>72738050
The Karajan recording is very love-hate, no-one seems to have an ambivalent reaction to it. Vickers' Tristan is unique, but I'm not sure it's my personal favourite.

>>72738330
the biggest problem is really the recorded sound, ditto with all of Karajan's Wagner.

not sure what's worse -- the Bayreuth acoustic, or Karajan's incredibly gimmicky sound quality

>>72738279
Truly one of the GOATs

>>72738304
Obviously not every recording but I've heard a lot. Who's a better Tristan? Windgassen is a terrible Tristan, a much better Siegfried (but his sense of timing is often unbelievably off), Melchior is beautiful but unintelligent, Suthaus' performance(s) are great for his doing, Vinay, Treptow and Lorenz are convincing, but Vickers' virtuosity is unparallelled and it's perfect for the role (it's less effective for Siegmund for example).

So far I've listened only to piano and chamber music (mainly string quartets/quintets and from time to time certain specific piano concertos I like a lot): how do I get into symphonic music?

Long pieces are still smowhat hard for me to assimilate (notice that I turned from /mu/core albums to classical music only 2 months ago, so my attention span is still somewhat stunted: at first I used to find difficult to listen to the same piece for more than 4 minutes, now I can listen to for 10 to 20 minutes without feeling any kind of fatigue), so symphonies and especially operas are somewhat hard to endure in one sitting.

Any advice from people who came from the same place, managing to overcome these difficulties?

>>72738625
disregard symphonies, acquire baroqueshit

>>72735906
Piano Sonata 32, especially for the jazzy bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQMCfqFr4XA

>>72738625
Try some of Beethoven's shorter symphonies. The 1st and 8th both come in around 25 minutes in a typical performace. If you're talking about getting into Mahler, or any of the other "epic" symphonists like Bruckner, as a newcomer to their work I found it helpful to just dive in, let it play, and do other things. Your mind will wander back to the music from time to time and you'll pick up on things that will help you to follow the music better on subsequent listens.

Repetition is key, by listening to the same work multiple times you pick up on the structure and are able to better follow the music. It's like when you go somewhere new for the first time and the journey seems to take forever, but the second time it's faster because you know the route, and so on with the third and fourth and nth times.

>>72738583
sorry, I didn't mean to make it seem like I was getting caught up in semantics.

>Who's a better Tristan?
well, Vickers is very good no doubt, definitely top 10, but I'd still give Max the edge. Vickers always had a bit too much croon for my tastes, and Max is the king of drama for me (or ham, as some my put it). no one else quite captures the charisma and necessary theatrical ability of a heldentenor like he can, and his diction is simply perfect. though it's a shame we don't have any recordings (which are listenable, anyway) from Lorenz's prime (30s). still, that recording with Heger from the 40s shows him in relatively good form, even if someone like Vicker's was his technical superior in comparison (though I must admit that technicality at such a high-tier of signing begins to have diminishing returns, in my opinion.)

>>72738583
Also: Kollo is good but not special. The best thing the recording has going for it is the good conducting and great sound quality.

>>72738447
The sound quality is indeed awful, and I really hate that. One thing that is that, while everything else sounds bad, sforzandoss are impressive, and so are the several near-climaxes and final climax.

The transcendent quality, or phantasmagoria as Adorno calls it, is fundamental to Wagner's music and nowhere more captured than in Tristan und Isolde. Vickers, who doesn't just tick the boxes gives a good (or great) performance, dissolves into the role (he really becomes mad like Tristan), he is incredibly dynamic and creative, he responds to the music and the scene, etc., all of which heighten that sense of phantasmagoria. Vickers' approach pays off in the role of Tristan.

But I can understand why people don't like it as he's barking and deviating a lot.

>>72738850
>Beethoven
Also, the 4th and 5th symphonies are not that much longer, around 30-35 minutes on average.

How do I into anyting that isn't Beethoven? I know next to nothing about classical music except Beethoven's symphonies, concertos and piano sonatas which I absolutely love. The reason for this was that I used to take out music from my local library and rip the CDs, and the only good stuff they had was largely Beethoven works (must have had a big donation). I then moved onto other types of music without ever expanding my classical range. I like Mozart's 3rd Violin Concerto and Schubert's Winterreise but otherwise that's it.

What should I listen to for something completely different but exciting enough to hold my interest?

>>72738891
madness and terrible sound quality are two things that Lorenz and Vicker's definitely have in common in their recordings

there is a [live] recording with Karajan and Vickers on operadepot, I believe... as well as his entire Ring. sound quality may or may not be preferable - there are more than a few cases where live Karajan sounds significantly better than studio Karajan.

>>72738872
Hmm yes, Lorenz is definitely one of the best and you made a good case. Vickers' diction is indeed not his strongest point, especially his ö, he literally cannot pronounce that ever, but what you get in return for that role is some transcendent shit. Also Dernesch is really good, and I haven't found a good Isolde accompanying Lorenz. As a result they don't merge (into the music), but rather sounds like they're performing separately, each to their own and removed from each other.

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>>72739035
A little off-topic but for good sound quality classical I hugely recommend Stephen Kovacevich's Beethoven sonata recordings. I'd been listening to Barenboim's for years but after upgrading my headphones I noticed how shit they sounded and looked elsewhere. Stephen Kovacevich's are flawless (and he plays beautifully too), can't recommend them highly enough.

>>72739004
idk Mahler probably, he is the only one to write choral symphonies (No. 2 and No. 8) that can stand alongside Beethoven's 9th.

>>72739046
I don't know, I think Buchner is a pretty good Isolde. she sounds batty, but I think it fits the character. she's not as feminine and floaty as Flagstad (I might suggest that Flagstad showed a frequency of being detached from her roles) but she nails the corporeal anger and lust that I think Wagner was going for that role.

but, honestly, when you talk about the greats of singing performance, it mostly comes down to your personal preferences in regards to certain nuances, and, as such, I don't think there's too much of a conversation to be had in regards to this. they're all great singers.

I'd take literally anyone from that 'golden era' of singing over those I've heard at the MET or at Bayreuth in the past decade...

>>72739148
Ideally looking for instrumental only. I love the 9th Symphony but I still prefer the 6th and 7th.

>>72739035
>>72739035
>terrible sound quality are two things that Lorenz and Vicker's definitely have in common in their recordings
It's not fair I tell you...

>>72739035
>there is a [live] recording with Karajan and Vickers on operadepot, I believe... as well as his entire Ring. sound quality may or may not be preferable - there are more than a few cases where live Karajan sounds significantly better than studio Karajan.
Yes you're right and I agree, but imo Dernesch sounds overall weaker on that unfortunately, safer and more stale. They're both great but have each a few cons. Sounds weird saying that because it's still the most beautiful and profound thing I've ever heard, even though I can acknowledge some cons (largely due to sound quality though).

>>72739004
>>72739197
Try some Bruckner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeQSfvn1uMM

>>72739197
The rest of Mahler's symphonies are great too. Although he includes sung movements in No. 3 and 4 as well. The 5th, 6th, 7th, and 9th are pure instrumental.

For other symphonists there's always Schubert, Brahms, Bruckner, even Strauss.

>>72739242
Ok cheers, will try Bruckner. Have tried some Mahler before but didn't get very far with it.

Anything relatively modern (at least 20th century) I might immediately like?

>>72739275
Schoenberg's Verklarte Nacht
Stravinsky's Firebird
Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe

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>>72739264
>>72739285
For these Mahler (and others if you can be arsed) are there any particular conductors to avoid or seek out? I've been extremely impressed with Claudio Abbado's Beethoven symphonies so I was going to try him for Mahler. I listen to music through Tidal which is surprisingly good for classical so I've got a fair bit of choice.

>>72739182
>but she nails the corporeal anger and lust that I think Wagner was going for that role.
Ah yes, I had Baumann more in my mind. Büchner is strong and what I wrote about the separation is far less is much less applicable to her. That sound quality makes me sad though because it's a truly great performance.

>but, honestly, when you talk about the greats of singing performance, it mostly comes down to your personal preferences in regards to certain nuances, and, as such, I don't think there's too much of a conversation to be had in regards to this. they're all great singers.
Absolutely, which is why I understand the critique of Vickers. His case, because of the deviations and creativity, is very strong though, but you can attack him based on valid criteria as well.

>I'd take literally anyone from that 'golden era' of singing over those I've heard at the MET or at Bayreuth in the past decade...
[spoiler]don't[/spoiler] check out this abomination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeQn4TOyck

>>72739386
Abbado's fine. Maybe not my personal top-drawer for Mahler, but you shouldn't be overly focused on which recordings to listen to for your first exposure. Recording autism comes after you're familiar with the composition, in my opinion.

>>72739386
Abbado is a good solid set not too amazing but not too terrible either, if you already like him stick with him. You can turn in to an annoying, highly selective mahler faggot later.

>>72739422
Fair point, cheers.

>>72739422
I can see that but there's no reason not to start with one of the best, if you know where to look

>>72739479
Yeahhhhh, but there's no *one* conductor that does justice to every work in any composer's oeuvre, and, when it comes to my own personal favorites, one has to make compromises with audio quality and such, so I think slamming people with, like, 8 different conductors with varying audio quality and playing styles is a bit much at first. Especially when I think one can only appreciate the "best" aspects of those conductors when one has a more "straight-laced" recording as a reference. And Abbado's pretty good for that.

But that's just my personal approach.

>>72739527
I definitely see where you're coming from. A lot of people would quite fairly recommend Karajan for Beethoven and he's a great introduction, but there's definitely better out there once you find individual symphonies that you prefer and you're prepared to listen to several recordings (although I'd argue you'd struggle to find a better 9th Symphony recording than Karajan/Berlin Philharmonic).

Scarlatti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUzSIaaj7G8

>>72739527
my personal approach is, pick two or three of the top recommended (or if it's a performer like Perahia or a composer like Klemperer just go with that) and then listen to them until I prefer one over the other. Keep both in my music folder, prune one from my library. Does that make me patrish? rhetorical question :P

>>72739386
Abbado is fine. Always go with a name you trust, although in Mahler's case it's rare to have conductors who can pull off a good survey of the entire set. Even Walter and Klemperer, who knew and worked with Mahler, chose to only record a few symphonies while avoiding ones they didn't feel they understood very well.

>>72739566
I've listened to the Furtwangler's and, aside from audio quality, don't see how it can be topped. Audio quality is big tho

>>72739587
>(or if it's a performer like Perahia or a composer like Klemperer just go with that)

I saw Perahia in Glasgow a few years ago playing Bach. I was going through a rough patch and got stoned before it (as I got stoned every fucking day), seriously regret that as I can barely remember anything about it other than intense paranoia.

Listening to Mahler's first symphony for the first time. Just got to the third movement - what the fuck, did I just hear Frère Jacques briefly!?

>>72739727
Yeah, the theme is based on Frère Jacques/Bruder Martin.

>>72739742
Glad to know I'm not going mad. Certainly didn't expect to find myself singing along in French to a symphony (I am enjoying it a lot by the way).

>>72739773
Mahler will often take you by surprise like that. I have been listening to his music for probably the best part of a decade now and I am still finding new things, especially in the middle and late symphonies.

Haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTRexu5CIL8

>>72740087
Studying his scores is a treat, I'd say that without either a analytical study of them or the ability of transcribing in your head the music while listening to it, you will miss 99% of what he tried to convey: what emerges from them is a unsormontable genius.

Barenboim, kissing and gilels are my favorites at playing beethoven's sonatas, who else should i check out?
Do someone with the understanding of barenboim, the accuracy of kissin and the bite of gilels exist

>>72740567

See:

>>72739088

I don't think you'll be disappointed.

>>72740567
Arrau

>>72740567
Kempff

>>72740796
>Kempff
>bite

What type of music does Koichi Sugiyama make? I'd like to find more like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqbSA9W-24E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F25xlNWRrx4

>>72740895
First link is just typical JRPG music.

The second link sounds like a ripoff of the climax of the Danse Religieuse from Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé.

>>72740953
thanks

>>72739392
kek this one never gets any less funny
>this man has performed Siegfried numerous times for a paying audience

>>72740984
Sure thing. If you want a recording of Daphnis, Boulez does a good one with great sound quality.

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwazNR2Mshw

>The [Minnesota] Orchestra will record Mahler’s Second this season.
Based Vanska is coming out with a Mahler recording soon enough. Though there are hundreds of good Mahler 2s already.

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>be me
>start playing piano 1 month ago
>tfw encountered today for the first time poliphony (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpbDKmXVKnY , the small canon at 0.34)
>tfw nothing in my life has been as satisfying as me managing to balance all the voices

The adrenaline was immense, the experience was borderline addicting. Is it so crazy to pick piano at 19 with the intention of becoming a virtuoso? Because I can see myself spending days, locked in my room, practicing repertoire, scales and etudes all day long. It seems a dignified way to spend your NEEThood on this planet.

Am I set for failure?

Alas, Petzold.

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>>72735635
''if you post anime reaction pics you will get banned''
What did you mean by this?

>>72737649
>I don't rate Prokofiev as highly as Liszt, but he's still a magnificent composer, from his piano concerti (no. 2 manages to synthesise the Russian romantic tradition with his own more angular, modern musical language) to his operas, which are woefully underperformed.

Lt. Kije isn't performed nearly as much with the classical singing it was written for either.

>>72738158
Lurk moar. John Adams, Arvo Part and Steve Reich get tons of appreciation here.

>>72739004
Try Mozart's 23rd Piano Concerto and Weill's string quartet.

The top line is a melody by Dvorak from one of his Humoresques. The bottom line is a variation of it I made. I want to use it, but do you think it's still too similar or is different enough?

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>>72743031
Picture.

Haydn masses are great

Hey Mahlerautists, is Chailly good?

>>72743511
He's pretty good, yeah. I was a bit too disparaging about his initial cycle a few years back, but I listened to it a bit more and it has some pretty good moments (the 3rd and the 6th standing out to me as the best). I believe he used Mengelberg's metronome markings for a few of his readings, which honestly kinda misses the point since they're just supposed to be used for a general reference, and Mengelberg never followed them anyway.

His recent recordings with the Gewandhaus orchestra (on DVD) are a lot more persuasive than his older ones. Not just in terms of his interpretive changes (generally faster and more rubato heavy) but the balances are much better as well since he's utilizing the classic German seating, which he didn't do in his RCO cycle. He also has a greater tendency to utilize portamento (in both cycles) than most modern conductors, which is a very good thing in my book. Unfortunately he mostly uses it as ornamentation rather than a general phrasing tool, which is a bit of a shame. Still better than most, though. I continue to wait for a conductor with enough balls to try and reinstate the tradition of portamento.

So, yeah, I'd probably rate him fairly high. And you get pretty good sound quality with his recordings to boot.

He has some interviews about Mahler here which are brief, but still interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH2FZmH-_r0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s5ACLHW9JQ

>>72743617
Thanks a lot

Why is it so difficult to find an album with a recording of Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ BMV 639?

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>

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>>72743703

>>72743808
Based Rosbaud

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>>72744183
>Italian pirate recordings

>>72742190
>with the intention of becoming a virtuoso
hahahahahahahahaha

>spending days, locked in my room, practicing repertoire, scales and etudes all day long

oh wait you're serious


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>NEEThood
>dignified

just fucking neck yourself already you god damn aspie. I don't even feel the need to insult you further because the wall you will hit 3-4 years from now will be crushing enough.

>>72744398
*coughs in front of mic*

>>72744520
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnIRFT477G8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EzaPrT09vw

Scarlatti's harpsichord sonatas are pretty amazing

>>72744487
wowee you're a rough tumbler aren't you?

>>72744667
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhqiy7KNGHU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VccwugFx0Kk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqdKbrtAMxo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkHB4aa730

yeah

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5ai80pyCYg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36211-ul46k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT9LJvZHgL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9ZeDQUXJYk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIV6MrFdekQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gtTC0qfFnc

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>J.S. Bach

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IoKkbO6Sdc

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>>72745156
>Hating Bach

>>72739004
Scriabin's piano sonatas (# 5 and other late ones if you want something very very different to beethoven) + orchestral works (Prometheus + Poem of Ecstasy)

>>72744487
Are you having a stroke?

>>72740567
I'm personally not a big fan of Barenboim and Kissin but Gilels is one of my favorites when it comes to Beethoven. Try Rudolf Buchbinder for more of the raw power and unparalleled sense of fantasy of Gilels, including the few sonatas he didn't record in his lifetime, or John O'Conor (who I am fortunate enough to currently be doing my graduate piano studies under!) for a more introspective, conservative approach. I'm actually not 100% certain if the latter's complete set has been reissued so it may be a bit tricky to locate but it's absolutely worth it. If you don't mind older recordings Backhaus and Schnabel also have some very nice things to offer as far as 'traditional' Beethoven playing goes.

For something a bit more refreshing there's Ronald Brautigam who has masterfully recorded all of the sonatas on the fortepiano. Gulda's cycle is as spontaneous and idiosyncratic as you would expect from one of the first pianists to attempt to bridge the classical/jazz chasm and has some -very- nice slow movements. The handful that Gould recorded are... well, Gould and worth investigating regardless of how polarizing they may be for that reason alone.

There's no one set that's perfect and certainly not one that fits what you described considering Barenboim and Gilels are about as different as can be when it comes to interpreting Beethoven so it's best to go on a work by work basis and to maybe play them yourself if possible but I understand that that's not exactly convenient for most.

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>>72742190
>Is it so crazy to pick piano at 19 with the intention of becoming a virtuoso?

>>72739088

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynvTXVS12qg&index=1&list=PLun3WonTEGvxFlO5U4sHwvMEsIynWIqpU

Holy shit, Mahler is fucking garbage

>>72748321
Fuck off. He's the best sleeping aid I've had in a long time.

>>72748366
>play a Mahler symphony to help go to sleep
>fall asleep halfway through the first movement
>wake up because there's a sudden fff
>sleep through the next three movements
>wake up 20 minutes into the finale because everything is really loud
sounds like a terrible experience

>>72743475
Yeah, the late masses are great and certainly some of the finest settings from the classical period. Although I do have a soft spot for classical-era masses generally; they're often fairly predictable but very satisfying to do.

>>72748669
funniest post /classical/ has seen for at least two weeks.

>implying with today's rising life expectancy and work on trying to stop ageing that anybody has to worry about wasting time trying to become a virtuoso

>>72748791
yeah a real knee slapper

>>72748812
what did your knee do to deserve that

>>72748321
that's why it's good, it's ironic

>>72748825
it underrated mozart

>>72747824
>>72744487

Come on, it may have been a naive question, but you guys could still have explained to me what these ''walls'' actually are.

>>72748979
This is /pseud/ general.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN8dVHgnZYg
This is pretty damn good.

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>>72740567

>>72748979
Just play for fun dude. The "wall" is the desire to be perfect and the inability to do so

>>72742923
>John Adams, Arvo Part and Steve Reich get tons of appreciation here
/pseud/ general

*coughs during a quiet moment*

>>72749375
boy, you should listen to the premiere of the Chereau/Boulez Ring

the crowd frequently interrupts the music with booing, whistling, and laughter at the then "avant garde" production

if only they knew that 30 years later that the Ring would be taking place at a gas station

>>72749376
Wow please delete this image
We do NOT allowed blackface on this board. Fucking racist pig

>>72748979
Whilst >>72744487 was overstated to be as humorous as possible, the underlying message is basically correct.
It is entirely possible for you to become a good piano player, able to tackle most of the repertoire admirably if you dedicate enough time to it and go about it the right way (hint: locking yourself in a room and teaching yourself piano is not the right way)
A virtuoso pianist (concert-standard) will have been playing piano for 4-6 hours per day for a good portion of their life. They have a command of the instrument that is almost instinctual due to the amount of time they've dedicated to practising the instrument. Add in the malleability of the brain as a child and you've got a person for whom playing the piano is something they can do almost without thinking.
I think the "wall" being referred to is that locking yourself in a room and mindlessly practising will likely lead to the assimilation of many bad techniques into your playing. You need to learn from a teacher who can address these, otherwise you'll eventually get to difficult music which you can't play because your fundamentals are all wrong and you'll have to spend time unlearning them, making most of your earlier efforts moot.
Often we see the >muh mature musicianship argument here, where people attempt to argue that starting later will allow them to bring a more sophisticated musical mind to the interpretation of the music, but there are two problems with this: firstly, that all the cerebral musicianship in the world is useless if you don't have the ability to communicate it using the instrument; secondly, that children who have spent a great deal of their lives playing the piano will have somehow managed to avoid making interpretative decisions up to that point, plus the fact that they don't have to think about the technique so much means they can consider interpretation in more detail.

[cont.]

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What was his fucking problem?

>>72749624
There are examples of famous performers who started in their late teens, but they are exceptions which prove the rule, often brought up in musical environments and were prodigies in and of themselves.

So learn the piano because you enjoy it, work hard and get a decent teacher and you'll be able to play most things you want to play. But striving to become a virtuoso concert pianist isn't a sensible goal because you have what amounts to zero chance of achieving it.

>>72749376
Why is it a picture of Otello when it's Iago that sings the line being shown in the subtitles?

>Kaufmann singing Otello
Worst timeline

>>72749177
>pseud = everything I don't like

>>72749457
Don't trigger the guy who writes those walls of text about how Beethoven's music is anti-racism.

>>72749948
Fuck off; Beethoven invented music.

Who the fuck are you to come in here and say Beethoven is shit?

Beethoven was the first REAL composer! He was the first to actually put emotion into his music, unlike the still and boring circlejerk wankery Bach and Mozart put out. Nothing Bach ever wrote has an inch on Beethoven's "Moonlit Sonata." And have you heard his "9th Symphony?" Mozart's masterpieces "Eine Kleine Nachtmusik," "Rondo Allah Turkey" don't even approach that work in terms of scale and emotional power.

Pretty much all the music you listen to is rooted in Beethoven. Name any composer--literally any; provided they aren't shit, all of their styles ultimately derive from Beethoven's revolutionary masterpieces.

And buy in large, the Romantic era is far better than the shitty Classical period of bourgeois chamber music and Baroque autism. There's a reason names like Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, Bartók, Chopin, Liszt, Wagner, and Mahler are far more known to the contemporary public than obscure faggots like Gluck, Scarlatti, Handle, Bieber, Haydin, and Gesualdo. They actually composed listenable music that wasn't just two-note circlejerks over the same harmonic sequence OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Goddamn Classical music sucked ass. You retarded for calling Beethoven shit: you're obviously too much of a pleb to enjoy him. Beethoven created and defined what we know as "music," and he marked the point where classical music turned from boring Zzzquil made for overpriveleged aristocrats and Popes to actual powerful beautiful music for the sake of art.

>>72749982
I want to see you make something better than Beethoven's Gross Fugue. I bet you can't because you'll never be a good a composer as he.

Bach and Mozart were engineers, Beethoven was an artist. And that ultimately is what divides the line between plebeian and patrician. For patrician listen to music for music's sake, and plebeians listen to it as a commodity. Plebeians are thus naturally drawn to the factory processed garbage made by Mozart and Bach because they enjoy the formulaic appeal and predictability. When plebeians hear Beethoven, however, the run off and cry, because the dissonances in his music are "too deep." Patricians, however, can enjoy Beethoven as a paragon of autistry in music: he rebelled against the gregarious and nauseating tendencies of his time and created a new musical world to be explored by geniuses such as Mahler, Sibelius, Stravinsky, and Mendelssohn. They rejected the terrible past and shunned shitty, boring composers like Bach and Mozart because their music has no internal value whatsoever. Bach, for example...

Bach had severe autism which unabled him to advance beyond German baroque form, His music isn't very good, because the nature of his music is deception. Like a good autist he covers it up with complex techniques that plens immediately gravitate toward "liek omgerr Counterpoint weaving like true autist, oh my gad this fugue so complex ele"

Bach had no artistic depth nor any musical talent, he is in some ways like his successor Mozart. Music that is perfect in construction and theory, not in beauty and inspiration. People who like Bach are simply closet autists who have no idea what good Western Art music is.

>>72749991
Bach never managed to compose anything of even relative worth. Rather than exploring new styles he preferred to jack off alone to the outdated style of ages past, in a manner very similar to modern "wrong generationers."

His most famous keyboard work, the Goldberg Variations, was originally written to put an aristocrat to sleep. And, bearing in mind that it consists of 30 variations on not only the same theme but also the same fucking harmonic sequence, it has the very same effect on modern audiences.

The Well-Tempered Clavier is garbage and taught Mozart and Beethoven bad habits that forever stunted their expertise in composition.

The Brandenburg Concertos, Violin Concertos, Orchestral Suites, Mass in B minor, Passions, and Musical Offering are plebeian trash written with mass appeal in mind.

The Art of Fugue is utter dreck and the worst "meme classical" ever written. It's a load of worthless pedantic wankery which literally serves no purpose other than to demonstrate counterpoint. It's hilariously samey and repetitive, which makes sense since it inverts the same fucking melodies to create new counterpoints and does this over and over and over.

>>72749994
Mozart is shit, as well.

His autistic use of sonata-allegro is generic and repetitive as fuck; all of his pieces are boring and diatonic, mostly in happy major keys devoid of feeling or deeper meaning; and his music caters to the parties of both privileged aristocrats and the foul mouthed, loathsome bourgeoisie. Moreover, his pieces are extremely limited in terms of timbre; the Classical era faced a huge bottleneck in timbre compared to the Baroque and Romantic. Beautiful instruments such as the viol, chalumeau, viola d'amore, recorder, harpsichord, lute, theorbo, cornetto, and shawm were completely forgotten, and the vast plethora of contemporary brass, wind, and percussion instruments used today were either nonexistent or incredibly uncommon. All of his instrumental works were limited exclusively to the piano, organ, violin family, transverse flute, oboe, clarinet, trumpet, timpani, and bassoon. There is nothing rewarding in listening to Mozart. His music is theoretically perfect, but devoid of interest or feeling.

Comparing the two ultra-autists to Beethoven, we reach an obvious conclusion.

Beethoven is the only one to single handedly bring music through TWO separate revolutions and bring the world into the romantic period. What was Bach hailed a genius for? Writing fugues... People say Beethoven didn't like writing fugues as if he was too shit to do it. No. Rather he didn't like having strict rules such as is the case with a fugue, because for Ludwig, art, emotion and expression came first. In fact, he wrote the most complex fugue in the Hammerklavier later in his life just because he fucking could... Whilst practically entirely deaf. In fact he was so deaf he couldn't hear when the performance of his 9th symphony had ended and the audience was going wild.

>>72749999
you are such a weirdo for spamming this

>>72749999
Not only that, but his life is truly turbulent and intense. Numerous failed loves, the custody battle with his brother's wife for his nephew. His own coming to terms with his irreversible deafness (when he wrote the Apassionata, hence why it starts at the lower register of the keyboard).

Bach wrote an incredible Mass, but Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is not far behind.

Bach was a technician, Beethoven was an ARTIST, and for me, music is an artform, about human expression, soul and emotion. Every single work of Beethoven's contains his entire soul within the notes, passion, anguish, melancholy, you can feel in each piece where Beethoven was at in his life. That is why for me Beethoven is the greatest musician of all time. Though, just as an aside, both Beethoven and Mozart claimed that Handle was the best composer of all time.

Handle is utter shit, though, as well all might agree.

Therefore, Beethoven is superior to all that came before him and all that follow.

TL;DR: Bach and Mozart suck Beethoven's black cock

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>>72749670
>There are examples of famous performers who started in their late teens
Yeah and they all play brass. Not even wind is that entry level lmfao.
>they are exceptions which prove the rule
Fucking retard. Feel free to stop posting anytime.

>>72750031
Richter and Bauer didn't start formally studying piano until about 20.

>>72749670
I'm not really concerned with the ''concertist'' part, what I'd love to achieve is virtuosistic command on the instrument. I also can afford lessons, and if there is no ''wall'' I'll certainly take them.

>But striving to become a virtuoso concert pianist isn't a sensible goal because you have what amounts to zero chance of achieving it.

Are your talking about the fact that it's borderline impossible to launch a concertist career if you're a late starter, or are you saying that no matter how hard I'll practice, I'll never become a virtuoso?

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>>72750063
>formally
Just piss off, retard.

>>72749982
>Rondo Allah Turkey

Thanks for the laugh

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Are there many other classical recordings which match the melancholic beauty of the opening number of swan lake?

>>72750094
Well, it's true: until his 20s Richter just accompanied small shows, he was no virtuoso at the times.

The same applies to Rubinstein: when he started practicing seriously he was not even able to play the Chopin Etudes, which is something you would expect from a 11 years old.

>>72750094
Please see OP

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@72750106
Are you seriously implying that all the (albeit amateur) practice they did before they started studying music seriously wasn't integral to them achieving virtuosity? You've never touched an instrument in your life have you?

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>>72750117
watchu mean homie
>>72750132
you deserve to be castrated

>>72735635
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqvBJc9IovI

>>72750150
listen to this shiet and tell me what you think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sj-NKqR0tw

>>72750132
read this >>72750106

that level of proficency is achievable in very few years. In 4-5 years of costant practice (8+ hours everyday) you'll probably have the technical foundations needed to have a decent interpretation of Chopin's Etudes, which means that you would be more skilled than Rubinstein and Richter when they were his age.

>>72737834
>Parsifal
Why do you think so? Doesn't help that the recordings of Parsifal are seriously flawed, but Tristan is much more profound and greater imo. Tristan is enticing from beginning to end, which is nearly unbelievable, Parsifal has moments of pure brilliance but it isn't as consistent. Also the libretto is a real piece of shit. Bothered me so much that I wanted to walk out the opera house. Not because of the religious undertones (though they definitely became annoying), but because it was embarrassingly stupid.

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>>72750004
>>72749999
>>72749994
>>72749991
>>72749982

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What else is like swan lake? Someone asked me and I told her that there's nothing really derivative of swan lake that I know of, but there's also some really thematic stuff like the firebird, from the new world, pictures at an exhibition, that are worth checking out. I also told her that tchaikovsky's symphonies, as well as brahms symphony no. 4 is worthy checking out as well. I'm not sure if these were all of the best things to tell her though. I also gave her some of my preferred recordings.

>>72750216
dont give him attention

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>>72750217
>What else is like swan lake?
Putting on makeup, crossdressing, etc.

Is there anything wrong with liking Wagner?

>>72750280
yes

>>72750257
That's adorable anon.

>>72750280
Hi, fascist

>>72750301
Okay.

This is a weird question but does anyone know how hard it is to remaster a classical album?

>>72750608
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMQM53gfl28

something like this

>>72749991
Bach uses dissonance way more often and in more effective ways than Beethoven. Nice pasta though.

>>72750698
There is in fact nothing that any composer until Debussy did that Bach did not do before them. Beethoven only achieved greatness when he started to seriously copy Bach.

Where do i start with Debussy?

>>72750783
Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune, Le roi Lear, La mer.

I was born in the wrong generation, nowadays music sucks, I wish I could go back to the tome around Beethoven, Handel, Hayden, Saleiri, and. Motzart. that is real music not "Dupstep" shit

it is not possible that are people who compared Schubert with swift are you stupid?????? no way classic music is immortal who will remember Taylor Swift after a hundred years?

>>72750822
Were you on the verge of having a stroke at the end of your sentence there?

Why our modern society with all knowledge can't compose a divinal music like this?

I love the fact that there are several people from several countries commenting here. No matter if you're American, Mexican, German, Russian, Japanese... we all unite over the beauty that is this composition.

Just stopping by to post the best piece ever composed:

Handel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=690cFbB43YU

>[Catalog]
>cmd+f "/jaz"
>*thud* 0 of 0
Feels good.

>>72750959
admit it /classical/, you secretly like /jazz/ and sometimes even lurk there

>>72749999
Nice quads.

Was this pasta originally posted here or elsewhere? Because it sounds like this cunt I know, Jacob Bard-Rosenberg, obnoxious anarchist pseud and Cambridge music graduate.

>>72750217
>What else is like swan lake? Someone asked me and I told her that there's nothing really derivative of swan lake that I know of, but there's also some really thematic stuff like the firebird, from the new world, pictures at an exhibition, that are worth checking out. I also told her that tchaikovsky's symphonies, as well as brahms symphony no. 4 is worthy checking out as well. I'm not sure if these were all of the best things to tell her though. I also gave her some of my preferred recordings.

>>72750822
>le born in wrong generation meme

Fuck that. I do think most music today is shit, but thanks to the internet I can listen to whatever the fuck I want at minimal expense within seconds with my Sennheiset HD600s. Thank fuck I was born today, otherwise I'd be a prole digging for potatoes in a field whilst the aristos feast and ignore string quartets.

>>72750989
Caught me with me pants down innit?

how the hell do you download the folders in OP? I'm getting bandwidth limited. Do I have to make 100 referral accounts or something?

>>72738625
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPlJOVYJTxY

>>72750959
>>72750989
>>72751048
Where can I find Miroslav Vitous' First Meeting album? What's other music like it?

>>72751029
>I was born today

Underage b&

>>72740633
that's very nice, thanks. any suggestions on where to find them?no success with torrent or soulseek

>>72740736
>>72740796
maybe i'm gonna make someone mad, but i think they are boring

>>72747146
thank you for the nice reply, i'll have to study it. i have been trying to play some movement myself but with my skill it can take up to 2 years just to not suck, so yeah, not very convenient. maybe one day i'll even post something here to get roasted and make everybody cringe

is there a musical term for a call and response?

>>72751128
Re. Kovacevich I stream his music through Tidal lossless so might be worth checking a streaming service if you have one? If not maybe pick up CDs cheap on Amazon market place.

what is the most twisted classical composition?

>>72751657
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSAGwa49MM

>>72750094
Bauer didn't really play it at all until 19 and then he was almost entirely self taught afterwords. This is the same guy who would become a world renown concert pianist and professor. So, yeah. Unusual.

To be fair, though, he did play the violin before hand, so it isn't as if his musical background was non-existent.

>>72751657
Define twisted.

>>72751724
like The Rite of Spring but less spring

>>72751766
Toi encore? Écoute "Éclairs sur l'au-delà..."

>>72751572
antiphony

>>72751956
Thank you!

What else is like swan lake? Someone asked me and I told her that there's nothing really derivative of swan lake that I know of, but there's also some really thematic stuff like the firebird, from the new world, pictures at an exhibition, that are worth checking out. I also told her that tchaikovsky's symphonies, as well as brahms symphony no. 4 is worthy checking out as well. I'm not sure if these were all of the best things to tell her though. I also gave her some of my preferred recordings.

>>72751993
Sounds like you want late romantic stuff that isn't particularly Teutonic. Or at least it did until you gave a list of pieces which fulfil your criteria of "catchy tunes"
If I give you some pieces, you have to credit /classical/ appropriately when sending them on to this girl you're trying to fuck.

>>72751766
Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire.

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>>72742715
>>72745104
>>72745156
>>72745404
>>72745421
>>72747824
>>72749043
>>72749990
>>72750031
>>72750094
>>72750132
>>72750144
>>72750640
Why?

>>72752082
what's the best recording of that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjDTl-TvJWY

>>72752057
>Or at least it did until you gave a list of pieces which fulfil your criteria of "catchy tunes"
I really don't know. This isn't a girl I'm trying to fuck, she's just a nice girl who I'm friends with. If you could help I would really appreciate it.

Plus, I felt that since she liked swan lake, that I would recommend her some other pieces which are rather thematic. I feel like pictures at an exhibition, from the new world, and firebird are exactly that. I didn't recommend stuff like the planets and peter and the wolf because I don't really care for those as much. I also felt like more tchaikovsky would obviously follow logically, and so would brahms 4th symphony.

So you can see that I was trying to think this through, but in the end I feel like I don't really know enough about classical music, so I would appreciate someone's help who does.

>>72752899
Tchaikovsky's other ballets fit the bill
Otherwise try Massenet, Delibes, Rimsky-Korsakov, Faure, Gounod and Berlioz.

Was Beethoven the best 17th century composer?

what do y'all think of film scores and film score composers?

Say it with me:

BOULEZ
IS
UNDERRATED

Ligeti
(accurately rated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snzSGagbl8

>>72753057
Say it with me:

I WILL
KILL MYSELF

>>72751114
Please respond, TiA.

>>72753057
Nah, he was a proper hack, both in composition and conducting.

>>72752899
Berlioz's symphonie fantastique?

>>72752899
Ceaikovski sucks man.

>>72750217
Sleeping Beauty, idiot.

petzold

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>>72752098
Why not?

>>72753283
>>72753373
Fuck you, Boulez is GoAT.

Hassler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMJZq2Sqy9Q

>>72754670
Are you a genuine new guy or is this a new artmusic-kun persona?

>>72755363
Neither

>>72755256
finally listened to Hassler yesterday after vaguely knowing about him. His vocal music is really great stuff.

Faure is one of the greatest composers of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkxSZW9E1g

>>72755388
How many of you are there and why can't you respect the theme of the thread? You had your anime one.

>>72750197
>Parsifal has moments of pure brilliance but it isn't as consistent. Also the libretto is a real piece of shit. Bothered me so much that I wanted to walk out the opera house. Not because of the religious undertones (though they definitely became annoying), but because it was embarrassingly stupid.


>t. Debussy

>>72755876
He is most likely influenced by Nietzsche's writings on Wagner, rather than those 2-3 Debussy's quotes you're thinking about.

hey Erno Dohnanyi's Op. 1 was pretty good, what else should I listen to by him?

>>72755991
Or maybe it's neither. I couldn't stand Parsifal's story way before I knew neither Nietzsche nor Debussy thought much of it. Different people can converge on the same opinion. (I blame Clara.)

>>72756164
Clara was the original bog-poster though, so we can disregard her opinions

>>72736397
holy fuck is that arnold

i had no idea he was this short

>>72756238
>we can disregard her opinions
A shame Wagner couldn't.

>>72756239
I don't have the picture saved on my computer (and google seems to have changed its algorithms) but the first result that came up when you searched "Schoenberg height" used to be something like "The short man wiki". He was either 5'1 or 5'4, I can't remember. Webern was apparently the same height.

>>72752134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOGQPowX86s

>>72752134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycw_X5O3OF0

>>72755991
>>72756164
>>72755876
Debussy thought that Parsifal was musically perhaps his greatest work. I didn't agree. Your post doesn't disprove my claim.

How come there are very few Russian works in the MEGA folders?

Accidentally posted in the wrong thread.
Recently began playing the violin at age 19, practice at least 10 hours a day, how good can I realistically get across time?

>>72757544
>>72757579
lmao

>>72757579
>practice at least 10 hours a day

the chinese are laughing at you

>>72757678
Chinese people usually practice that much to pass the extremely strict selection of Eastern conservatories, and to win extremely demanding competitions. None of these things are really propedeutic to the craft itself, rather it is a compromise musicians have to take in order to prove their worth to the institution first, and to the public after.
And even then, once they get a career starting they'll, at best, practice full-time very rarely, sticking to a 5-6 hours plan when traveling.

If that anon is fine with renouncing to that type of career, he can easily outpractice in the long run even the most diligent Chinese drone violinists.

This assuming that he is telling the truth, that he can mantain this effort for literally decades, and that he is being followed by a very good teacher (but we're on 4chan, so that's unlikely enough to not assume such a scenario).

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH_yksjQmDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfrZlH4nok0
>>72757579
It's not about how long you practice, it's about how effective you practice.
Enjoy your arthritis.

>>72757579
See the discussion we had earlier in this thread.

>>72758039
I've already checked it, there was no answer to that guy's post, only a couple of ironic responses that ammounted to nothing.

>>72758168
>I'm a retard who can't read!

I've always wanted to get into classical. where should i start?

I used to play the cello when I was a kid and I hated going to concerts so I quit, but now I've been inspired to start playing again.

Any tips for relearning how to play? A lot of this stuff is coming back to me slowly as I practice each day, but any pointers would be nice to hear.

>>72758519
>I was a kid
normie

>>72758567
Pretty much, this is mostly going to be a hobby to help me unwind after work. Listening to composers and air-violining just isn't enough anymore.

>>72758448
depends on what you like

when are we going to have a classical flowchart

>>72758910
I'm not sure we could really manage with only one. You need flowcharts to help people decide which flowchart they're going to use. It would be quite an endeavour, but if /classical/ pooled its resources we could manage something. Would be useful if some of the knowledgeable trips from yesteryear made a return

>>72758910
>this all over again
oh /classical/ when will you ever learn

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>>72757579
Practising anything for 10 hours a day is dumb as shit. If chinese performers really do practise that much, this must be one of the reasons why they are so fucking bad at playing.
Practise has an additive effect only for the basics (technique learning). After you got the basics down, practise has a cumulative effect and daily practise time lies on a Laffer curve. After a point you just get exhausted and practising your shit is worse than not practising at all because you're unfocused, you control your movements poorly without noticing etc. Pic related is just an example. Ideally, you should quit practising before you get tired. This is earlier when you're a beginner. With time you gain stamina and can practise more in a day.

>>72758910
I like things that use classical instruments like John Cale, Arcade Fire, and King Crimson, and generally like the most popular baroque and classical songs (at least the ones on spotify)

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>>72759342
Listen to Mozart

>>72759496
Okay :)

>>72759309
Most of the most revered Western pianists and violinists, with very few exception, practiced that much in their youth in order to reach the peaks of virtuosity before their 20s, and even after that, in order to mantain those progresses, the standard is 4 to 6 hours of practice everyday.

10 hours of practice is absolutely doable, if you're taking pauses frequently. Any pedagogist worth their salt will be able to direct you in these kind of intensive studies, there is no reason to discard them like you're doing.

If you've got the stamina to follow 4 hours of lessons and then stud 4 hours afterward, then you've got the stamina to practice that much: it's more about your attention span, rather than your muscles.

>>72759809
the studies I've seen usually identify 6 hours per day as the upper-limit, beyond that the pay-off really isn't worth it.

>>72759809
>Most of the most revered Western pianists and violinists, with very few exception, practiced that much in their youth
Stop taking hyperbolic interviewee bullshit at face value. But more importantly, stop using edge cases as examples when talking about this. "The most revered Western pianists and violinists" are several standard deviations above the average in several aspects. They're the exceptions to it not what you should be basing your heuristic on. Innate potential is a thing.
>it's more about your attention span, rather than your muscles.
It's about both.
Stop giving stupid advise.

>>72760166
You have not studied in a competitive conservatory, then.

>>72760196
>They're the exceptions to it not what you should be basing your heuristic on.
If you're willing to practice 10 hours everyday, there is no reason for you to not strive for those peaks of virtuosity. Why would he practice 10 hours everyday, after all? Do you think that he is doing it in order to become a average violinist?

>It's about both.
It's not, especially in the beginning. Nothing you will do will really stress your hands, and if your posture is correct (and for this you need an experienced teacher) and you're taking frequent pauses, you can easily practice all day long (which is, in fact, the standard for virtually every instrumentalist in any decent Western and Eastern conservatory).

You're just trying to find excuses for your weakness and your mediocrity.

>>72760332
>Why would he practice 10 hours everyday, after all?
Because he's a total newbie with silly ideas, like believing that ever more practise time will automatically translate into getting ever better. Are you actually even paying attention to the discussion?

>Recently began playing the violin
>muh conservatory

>>72760332
If I were basing it on my own experience, I'd say that I'm a singer, so 3-4 hours per day is my upper limit, beyond that I'm just going to do myself harm.
But as I say, studies into musical pedagogy and practice that I've read suggested that most professional musicians practised for 6 hours per day at the upper limit, split up into a number of different sessions.

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>>72739527
um try again sweetie :)

Gesualdo is the best composer of all time, why can't /classical/ accept this?

>>72760522
Not really a fan of Boulez in SVS. That set is mostly recommendable for Rosen and Juilliard.

>>72760685
wrong my man. I know it's very tempting to ascribe modernist tendencies onto the man and glamorise his already colourful life, especially if you have no knowledge of Renaissance music, but please resist the urge: you'll feel better for doing so.

>>72760685
Cucked

hello
Can someone recommend serious composition books for beginners, please?

>>72761262
Harmonise Bach chorales
http://www.rgsinfo.net/subject/Music%20Dept%20site/A_Level_Music_files/A2%20chorale%20exercises.pdf

>>72760435
>Because he's a total newbie with silly ideas
He's clearly willing to put the hours to trascend his amateurish condition, and he has not said that he is not willing to study with a teacher.

>like believing that ever more practise time will automatically translate into getting ever better.
As long as it is deliberate and as long as he is following certain safety norms, this statement is true.
Also, considering that he is starting so late, time is against him: he should actually put as many hours as possible (always accounting for fatigue, both muscolar and mental), in order to memorize as much repertoire as possible.

You're basically arguing against the most pedagogic method there is and there has been in history. What you're advising against is what all the great musicians in our canon did.

>>muh conservatory
If he's willing to play 10 hours everyday, chances are that he'll wants to join a conservatory later on.

>so 3-4 hours per day is my upper limit, beyond that I'm just going to do myself harm.
First of all, no concertist will practice that little thorough the day, which means that either you're doing something wrong, or that you should seeks advice in managing your discipline more productively (unless you're doing it as a hobby, while studying something else or working on the side, in that case there is nothing wrong in your lack of discipline and focus).

>studies into musical pedagogy and practice that I've read suggested that most professional musicians practised for 6 hours per day at the upper limit, split up into a number of different sessions.
This makes sense only at the end of your formal studies. With only 6 hours of daily practice virtually no one could get to a virtuoso level before their mid 20s.
Also meditation helps immensely on that level, especially if you're doing it multiple times everyday (ideally everytime you get a pause).

By the way I'm speaking from experience, although my background is a pianistic and theoretic one.

>>72761366
>let me tell you about how singing works even though I'm a pianist
It doesn't work like instruments. Whilst you can happily sit at a piano for 5 hours and make productive use of your time, it is virtually impossible for a singer to do the same. By all means supplement the time with "meditation" (or else conceptualising of how you plan on interpreting the music without actually performing it) but someone who does that much practice 7 days per week is going to ruin their voice very quickly.

tfw would actually preorder Josef Hofmann Volume 9

>>72761442
>>let me tell you about how singing works even though I'm a pianist

I've worked with countless singers in conservatories in my teenagehood, as an accompanist: I can assure you that none of the competitive, most successful singers in these enviroments practice only 4 hours everyday. If you can't do more than that without straining your voice, as Ive said earlier, you're either doing something wrong (or there may be something wrong with you).

>By all means supplement the time with "meditation"
Meditaion is now widely used among classical instrumentists, not for some sort of far-fetched metaphysical reason, rather because it helps restoring your attention span, just like a nap would do: the benefit is immense, for playing most instruments what is required is, most of the time, a intellectua effort, rather than a muscular one.

>but someone who does that much practice 7 days per week is going to ruin their voice very quickly.
Which is why most concertist and opera singers take costant phisiological countermeasure for this stress. Pavarotti wasn't fat because he did not have the force of will needed to get in shape again.

>>72761554
I was using "" around meditation because I don't particularly think the term works in the context, but I know what you were referring to when you use it and I agree that it's a useful thing to do.

But I'm honestly curious as to where you worked with singers who were practising for more than 4 concentrated hours, and particularly what sort of beasts they must be if they can sustain it for that period of time. Are you including time spent not singing - i.e. breaks or time considering the music without performing it - in that total? If so, that makes more sense, since that way you can easily stretch 3-4 hours to 5 or 6.

And the "getting fat" thing as a means of preventing damage to voice just seems to be deflecting the problem. A lot of the "larger" greats already had a sturdy build which provided the groundwork for their massive instruments in the first place.

can i have pianist recs

favorites

yudina
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVP6uWKBMbk
sofronitsky
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GKHJ52t5xU0
pollini
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WwHgeDPhkts
argerich
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J_36x1_LKgg

>>72762017
Schnabel
Solomon
Levy
Fischer
Richter
Gilels
Cortot
Friedman
Feinberg
Michelangeli
Rosenthal
Hofmann
Gieseking
Casadesus
Kapell
Lipatti
Kempff
Moiseiwitsch
Weissenberg

>>72762017
Arrau
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlqoWcrEXKY
Backhaus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsd3f5CJkbU
Gould
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cVdCABgCOY
Richter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9urnGKE_LQ
Petrov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSn3qr7vEfQ

>>72761366
You're obviously more concerned with tooting your own horn than giving any sort of useful advise.
Deliberate practise is a very technical term by the way, one that was delineated to explain precisely what I said: that ever more practise will not automatically translate into getting ever better.
>You're basically arguing against the most pedagogic method there is and there has been in history.
You're basically parroting what I just said in more words.
>he's willing to play 10 hours everyday
I doubt it.
>chances are that he'll wants to join a conservatory later on.
I very much doubt it.

Besides, even if your assumption is true, his chances of becoming a virtuoso violinist are practically zero.

>>72762017
after my 5 favorites richter hofmann curzon fiorentino and solomon i lose track of names

>>72761523
Didn't even know there was a new volume coming out, thanks for pointing that out

>>72762148
>You're obviously more concerned with tooting your own horn than giving any sort of useful advise.
Nice namecallig. Notice that I have never attacked you in any of my posts.

>Deliberate practise is a very technical term by the way, one that was delineated to explain precisely what I said: that ever more practise will not automatically translate into getting ever better.
More deliberate practice leads to improvement, which means that how many hours you put into your craft everyday MATTERS.

>I doubt it.
Who cares? Anon asked us for an advice and gave us certain informations about him: why should I doubt them? If he's lying at worst you'll lose 1 minute writing a post, if he's not you're encouraging other anons who may have an answer to not answer him.

If what he has said is true, my advice was the most helpful one in this thread.

>>72761774
>But I'm honestly curious as to where you worked with singers who were practising for more than 4 concentrated hours

This never happens, it's usually 40 minutes practice spread across the day. I'm not telling you to practice 6 hours everyday without any pause, that would be extremely harmful.

>>72761774
That guy is full of shit, no two ways about it.

>>72761275
thanks :)

>>72762205
it is 1 CD of mostly relreases and 1 CD of interviews about hofmann. yet the fool i am would pay premium cd prices for that

>>72762230
I know what deliberate practise means. Go back to this post >>72757579
>Recently began playing the violin at age 19, practice at least 10 hours a day, how good can I realistically get across time?
You've said practically nothing on point, you've just related anecdotes. Tooting your own horn.

>>72762289
Muh "marginally better sound quality" autism will also pay for it

>>72762305
He told us how old he is, and how much he practices, you've immediatly doubted one of the 2 informations he gave us, using it as an argument in order to demolish his ambition.

>>72762342
His ambition is misplaced.

>>72762230
I'm the anon who wrote the first post.
I do have a good teacher and started taking classes before I got a violin.
I was inspired by Charlie Parker's comments on his practice, stating he would do so from 11 to 15 hours a day.
But then I started doubting how much I would be capable of after reading in this thread about the 19 year old anon who began playing the piano.
Still, I found your posts encouraging to continue practicing this way.
>>72762382
How should I practice, from your point of view?
I do not feel tired from practice since I break it in three shifts, 4 hours on the morning, 4 at noon and 2 at night.

>>72762382
Not necessarily: if he is telling the truth he's not doomed.

Most likely he won't ever become a famous concertist, but virtuosity is still accessible.
See? >>72762403 He even got himself a good teacher: unless he is extremely untalented (which still happens, from time to time) he can still become a virtuoso.

>>72762403
>But then I started doubting how much I would be capable of after reading in this thread about the 19 year old anon who began playing the piano.

If you're skeptical about it, go attend some conservatory lecture: you'll find out many old virtuosos who started in their 20s, 30s and 40s.
Let's be clear: they'll never get famous. They do not have the traits that are required for soloists to launch a career (mainly the ability of winning competitions in their late teens/early 20s: it's too late for that), and more in general people simply don't give a shit about virtuosity by itself. They also want a narrative.
That said, if you want to become a virtuoso out of sheer passion, rather than egoism and careerism, this is still completely attainable, especially if you're not lying.

>>72762403
nevermind the unbelievers, anon when you achieve everything you wanted to i will be there to cough the loudest for you

>>72762403
>How should I practice, from your point of view?
Focus on particular exercises in a very conscious manner. The fact that you can practise continuously for 4 hours at a time tells me one of two things: you're some sort of eminently capable genius, or are practising in a very unfocused, mechanical way. You're just wasting time.

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>>72762497

>>72762462
>you'll find out many old virtuosos who started in their 20s, 30s and 40s.
Not true at all. You'll find out about the exceptions that prove the rule.

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>>72762552
Pic related. Biology is also at play here and it's not about whether grey hair is sexy or not. Fluid intelligence begins to degrade in your late 20s. It will be increasingly harder and harder for you to learn new things as you get older. Even already acquired skill can only carry you so far, since in your 30s your motor control also starts to go down the drain. Poorer reflexes, delayed responses, coordination problems, etc.

Is it *possible* that you might attain the level of a virtuoso violinist even after starting so late? Yes.
But is it *probable*? No.

petzold

What's with the meme that Bach's Cello Suites were written by his wife? Is this actually true?

Reminder that we're past the bump limit.
>>72763114
>s this actually true?
No evidence for it. Wild speculation.

why do you guys go autistic when someone asks how to learn to play piano every time

BUT WHERE IS THE NEW THRAAD???!?!?

New
>>72763471
>>72763471