Greatest tenor player of our generation. Reminds me a lot of

The Epic is an album that is hard to criticize. It's obviously an amateur album: the easiest first sight of this is the label. Brainfeeder is not known for high level Jazz performers: the pseudo-Jazz of 2010's FlyLo and Thundercat is not exactly pivotal material. If Kamasi were a talented soloist, he would be on a real specialist label. So the album, in fact, was always destined to be mediocre. Its special features such as the chorus and of course the monumental length are notable, but the compositions strain for individuality yet end up sounding too much like an amateur copy of older styles than an earnest study and reinterpretation of them. But if we're charting the weak points of the record, the weakest of all would of course be Kamasi himself. Whereas his bandmates are able to pull off generally satisfactory solos (but the pianist and trombonist...ugh), he sticks to mostly one register, one scale, and often struggles to think of creative ideas in his improvisations.

>>72303532
nay. listen to other jazz pls.

it's not an unpleasant album to listen to but it's not anything spectacular. his solos are terribly amateur and wooden in particular. playing overly hard doesn't make a good solo.

>>72303532
>Greatest tenor player of our generation.
not even close

>Reminds me a lot of Pharoah.
A little too much...

>>72303548
>>72303593
>>72303596
I think you together make a decent case for saying he isn't the most creative artist. I still enjoy the album, in fact I enjoy it a lot more than Coltrane's stuff.

>>72303548
This pasta sounds like some rockist who barely listened to the album trying to pad out shallow criticisms of the album with regurgitated but poorly understood criticisms that actual jazz fans around /mu/ gave of the album.

>>72303532
>Greatest tenor player of our generation
I actually liked the epic but think this is laughable

>>72303654
Sounds like you don't know anything about Jazz or music, but still want to justify liking your entry level garbage.

>>72303673
name a better one please so I can learn? =)

>>72303678
t. tripfag

>>72303711
Chris Potter

nice ad-hominem.

>>72303647
no problem with that, you like what you like. Like i said it's not unpleasant.

>>72303654
saying that the solos are poor on a jazz album isn't a shallow criticism...

>>72303711
Chris Potter. Even if you don't necessarily like his music it's hard not to see that he's at least 10 times the musician that Kamasi is.

>>72303711
Chris Potter
Tim Warfield
Tony Malaby
Mark Turner

>>72303757

I judge a musician on if they make music I like. What does it matter to me if Chris Potter can play 5 instruments if it sounds boring to me?

>>72303773
motherfucking Mark Turner is a genius

>>72303678
I don't like the album and I almost listen to more jazz than you m8. Never seen you post in /jazz/. Just pointing out poorly written criticism.
People who blindly hate something without understanding it are as bad as people who blindly love something without understanding it.
>>72303754
Nah, it's not if you can back it up. Implying that Kamasi is one of the worst soloists on the album is frankly ridiculous though. He mentions how bad the trombone and piano are (though the pianist is one of the better accompanists on the album), but there's no mention of Thundercat, the trumpet player or the guitarist. At least Kamasi has an actual style and adheres to some sort of coherent trajectory when he solos. Just about every other soloist on the album are mostly just filling time with empty and unemotive pentatonics. Kamasi might follow the same slow burn-grow in dynamics- extended techniques- crescendo formula for every solo, but at least he's actually interested in what he's doing.
The only other musician on the album who's near as good as Kamasi, is the drummer but he's normally stuck in the accompaniment.

>>72303774
Because "boring" is not a real criticism and only a musically illiterate boob who listens to music at surface level would try to use it as such.

>>72303816
Ooh thas a bad typo.
>I almost certainly listen to more jazz than you m8

>>72303825
>implying there's literally any worthy criticism other than "boring"

An implication which hasn't been justified. It's BORING. Now fuck off you pompous prick.

>>72303816
You seem mad that people who aren't in on the club can come to similar conclusions. :) Classical music is my specialty but in my studies of Jazz I can still identify a good soloist and composer.

>>72303774
>>72303839
well you won't know since you've never listened to him.

also, way to create a system in which you can never be wrong since you don't have to have anything to back up your quantifiable criterion.

might as well just stick your fingers in your ears.

>>72303816
T b h thundercat is a pretty poor soloist on that album as well.

>At least Kamasi has an actual style and adheres to some sort of coherent trajectory when he solos
this is correct but it doesn't make him the greatest player of our generation, especially when you're comparing him to artists that fall short on the same album.

>at least he's actually interested in what he's doing.
agreed and that is a saving grace for this album. like i said, i don't have any problem with people liking and enjoying this album. i enjoy it myself from time to time.

>>72303853
Then plz, pick any solo on The Epic and explain why it's better than that one solo Kamasi performs on nearly every track.
Off the top of my head, I can only think of one I prefer.

>>72303871
>a system
>"It's boring"

Thanks for proving you're retarded?

>>72303839
This is really worrying. You're what's wrong with this board if you think anybody cares whether you think music is "boring."

>>72303885
>if you think anybody cares

who asked you to care? It's elitist cucks like you who are the people ruining the board. Fuck off and let me enjoy my music.

>>72303876
I haven't listened to The Epic in more than a year so I would have to jog my memory. At the time I was able to do individual track ratings and could have told you.

>>72303882
your system is "i don't like this therefore it's bad"

why do you not like it
"it's bad"

see the problem?

>>72303897
if you can't hold an opinion without understanding why, then you're not saying anything.

>>72303913

No, I don't have a system. I don't like it therefore I don't like it.

Why don't I like it? Not because it's bad you boob. Learn to stop putting words in my mouth.

Not liking it comes first. I never said anything is bad BECAUSE I don't like it. YOU'RE the elitist here badgering me for my taste remember

>>72303897
kek. by all means enjoy whatever you want to enjoy, but don't bother coming to a board to discuss music if all you can say is "I enjoy this" or "I don't enjoy this".

>>72303935
>I don't like it therefore I don't like it.

you are worthless.

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>>72303933
>preferences are opinions

kill yourself idiot.

>>72303937
Make me faggot lol, I come here to discuss music I like with other people. Fuck off elitist.

>>72303871
>T b h thundercat is a pretty poor soloist on that album as well.
I was saying all those lads are worse than Kamasi. Only thing worse than Thundercat soloing is Thundercat accompanying. Listening to his playing on that new Kamasi track was just laughable. He's like a wind up monkey. The drummer is there frantically trying to get some interplay going through the whole solo section and Thundercat is just there like a dumbass not reacting to anything.
Also, I'm not op. The Epic was probs the worst jazz album I heard from 2015, but I don't think it's completely indefensible.
>>72303901
If you feel like it, I'll probs be checking his thread and /jazz/ every so often.

>>72303952

I don't care what you think, get off the thread already dumbass

>>72303954
define preferences
define opinions
define elitist

>>72303954
>I come here to discuss music I like with other people. Fuck
Apparently you don't though. As far as I can tell you come here to say that you like music or dislike music and then if anybody has a different opinion you resort to calling them names.

This is not "discussing music."

>>72303978
define define

>>72303978
That's not up to me who is simply enjoying music. It's up to you, who is claiming objective understanding of jazz (and failing to prove it still)

>>72303984
>you resort to calling them names
think you need to re-read the thread LOL

>>72303966
the rest of us are discussing music. you're the only one wasting space.

>>72303961
ah gotcha.

>I don't think it's completely indefensible.
agreed!

>>72303990
ok
tell me what you think those words mean.

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>>72304000
waste of trips, waste of space, waste of life. Kill yourself already faggot LOL

>>72303996
>who is claiming objective understanding of jazz
please provide proof of where i said this

the only thing i asked is that you be able to say why you hold your opinions.

>>72303996
>think you need to re-read the thread LOL
done. I see one anon calling everyone who disagrees with him an elitist or cuck or dumbass.

>>72304008
refer to >>72303954
preferences != opinions

>>72304019
refer to >>72303978

>>72304017
Then clearly you have selective reading, because clearly I was being insulted first. Get a life, you've just proven you're incapable of being objective.

>>72304040
where were you insulted first?

Well I'm going to stop responding now because you're either a troll or have a learning disability. In case it's the latter, you should know that nobody will take you seriously as long as you are only capable of "discussing" music in subjective terms and you are bringing this entire board down with this kind of rhetoric.

Jazz threads are always the best ones. Thanks, lads.

>not understanding jazz as western musical improvisation in general

Do I need music theory and shit to enjoy jazz or nah? Will I enjoy it more if I dabble into some music theory? Because some jazz I like, some just sounds like something is happening and I don't now what and I get lost. Some random fucking sax pops out of nowhere and I get confused

>>72304257
You get more out of all music if you learn music theory.

>>72304257
No just think of the solos as the players talking. It's all improv so they're putting in what they feel.

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>>72304282
>>72304280

2 kinds of people: niggas whom'st are never invited to parties, and real niggas

>>72304257
It's not music theory that will help you enjoy jazz more, but experience playing improvised music with other people. It just so happens that to play most kinds of improvised music, you'd need a pretty thorough grasp on theory. Just studying harmonic theory on its own won't really change your perception of jazz all that much.

>>72304300
People with an education, and people who browse 4chan all day*

Thanks buds, also maybe tell me if people who make improv music know music theory or they just don't give a fuck? I mean I guess both, but idk

>>72304322
You're the trip so I guess we know which you are

>>72304335
To be good at improv you either know music theory or practiced hours every single day and "know it" but just don't know the terms (like Hendrix).

You have to know Theory either consciously or subconsciously

>>72304322
You love causing arguments with people huh nigga

>>72304335
Most jazz musicians are experts in theory. Of course, there's free jazz where theory knowledge isn't necessarily essential, but is usually still helpful.

But there's also plenty of ethnic folk music that is filled with improvisation where most of the players know very little about Western theory. Then again, one could argue that most of these kinds of music have their own theory which the musicians often learn by practice and tradition, even if they never actually formalize it.

>>72304300
They're both pretty valid positions and both approaches help with developing critical listening skills.
The latter won't give you the tools to describe how and why a solo is making you feel the way it does, but if you're patient and willing to give music attention and an open mind, it should still allow you to enjoy it.
Seeing people play live helps a lot too.

>>72304446
>>72304344
>>72304378
i was saying you don't NEED to know theory to appreciate it. of course it could improve your enjoyment, but it's not absolutely necessary.

you can play music and improvise without knowing every single thing you're doing in theory, in the same way you can shoot a basketball or dribble without understanding the exact geometry behind it. people talk about basketball without using mathematical terms all of the time.

>>72305172
Basketball players, commentators and fans have a sort of lingo that's equivalent to music theory . They're both abstractions from the physics and not talking about the magnus effect to describe how spin affects a shot is more analogous to not talking about the harmonic series to describe how a chord sounds.

>>72305519
exactly. in the same way that you can talk about, play, and appreciate music in terms that aren't absolute music theory like in the latter half of your post.