Who's the Bach or Beethoven of Jazz?

Charles Mingus

bach = coltrane
beethoven = miles
mozart = mingus

Bach = Tony Parker
Mozart = Miles Davis
Haydn = Charles Mingus
Beethoven = Coltrane or Wayne Shorter

>>72125169
Tony parker lmfao, Charlie Parker my bad

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This man is Bach Beethoven and Mozart all rolled into one.

Do you think jazz will ever come back?

>>72125126
Jazz hasn't existed long enough to make this analogy. George Russell has influenced more of popular and art music than you are ready to understand though.

J Dilla

Bach = Charlie Parker
Beethoven = Miles

>>72125197
It seems all fine art is in limbo currently.

>>72125197
ignorant ass question

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>No one mentions Louis Armstrong

>>72125258
Vivaldi

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they are the two worst genres

>>72125126
Charlie Parker is definitely Bach, not so sure about the others

>>72125198
>Jazz hasn't existed long enough to make this analogy.
This. Jazz is memecore music that died before it actually got a chance to evolve into something more than a meme. Hell even degenerate garbage like rock music got more mileage.

>>72125382
I should point out kids today are getting smarter. The whole "hip-hop is good" meme works solely on retarded millenials and guilt-driven Gen X'ers. I anticipate that jazz in its opportunities in orchestration, counterpoint, musical narrative and even songwriting is poised to make a serious comeback.

>>72125382
jazz has existed since the 1910s while rock got started in 1940s. Not sure how rock is has more mileage

>>72125382
nice bait retard
fuck off

>>72125721
1910 = music started

>>72125416
?

If this is bait then I don't get it

>>72125798
Not bait. People are just in severe misunderstanding as to what a genre actually is and what purpose such a distinction serves.

>>72125883
Are you saying literally all hip/hop / rap is bad? Dalek, The Powers that B, Good Kid Maad City, College Dropout. All of it is bad?

>>72125883
your sentences suck

>>72125921
>The Powers that B
well this is certainly bad, you could have at least said exmilitary or the money store

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>>72125940
I don't usually like to be patrician or pretentious but TPTB is way less accessible, more mature, and easily their magnum opus

>>72125721
>jazz has existed since the 1910s while rock got started in 1940s. Not sure how rock is has more mileage
You have two cars. One is 10 years old, the other only 5. You drive the 5 year old car every day since you got it 5 years ago, meanwhile the 10 year old car has spent 9 of those 10 years collecting dust in the garage because it runs like ass.
Which car has more mileage?

>>72125921
Sheesh. Always this "B-but what about my favorite stuff" response. There's good music to be had in hip-hop but it's severely limited by it's own methodology and shit culture. Just for context, do you even realize how many people have been killed over 360 deals? To understand and ignore it is to be a shitty person. You could say that other modes of distribution exist but I don't see anybody en masse trying to come up with new models. Do you?

>>72125931
You suck at reading and in all likelihood, listening and comprehending.

>>72125971
Jazz was the music of choice in the 20s, 30s, and 40s, and was still heavily played in the 50s and 60s. Rock was the music of choice in the 60s, and 70s, but gave way to Punk, Metal, and Indie in the 80s and 90s. In the 00s and 10s it's been almost entirely replaced by Indie. Where is your mileage

>>72126001
You suck at reading, and, in all likelihood, listening and comprehending (don't forget your commas)

FTFY but lets not get catty babe

>>72126010
>In the 00s and 10s it's been almost entirely replaced by Indie. Where is your mileage
indie died this decade, it's been replaced by memerap now

>Bach
Ellington
>Beethoven
Armstrong

Don't argue, just accept it

>>72125971
What tenth of jazz' history do you figure it was actually evolving and when did it stop?

>>72126033
I'll fuck up your commas, bitch.

>>72126010
>Jazz was the music of choice in the 20s, 30s, and 40s
Yes, because entire planet = USA, and everyone on the planet listened to some new american fad in the 1920s.
Let's get real here, Beatles got more mileage in less than a decade than the entire jazz genre in the last century. And they're just one band.

When you guys are talking about "milage" are you talking about artistic value or popularity?

>>72126010
You have a really screwed up sense of music history. Almost everything you're saying is wrong.

>>72126117
They're talking about popularity. Around here popular = good, ever since that poptimism crap took foothold in internet world.

>>72126117
Jazz, rock and similar forms of entertainment have no artistic value, so you can only judge them on popularity and influence they had on the popular culture in general. And rock wins here by far.

>>72126149
Oh fuck, then yeah. Jazz arguably only had 20 years at best and rock had a patchy 25. Disco and R&B then got WAAAAY more "milage" than either of them.

>>72126182

Creatively speaking, jazz has a more robust engine than any of it. Rock is held back by marketability. Hip-hop is held back by marketability. R&B comes damn close, I will say. "Classical" doesn't even exist so I'm not even going to touch that. Don't hold your breath for the /mu/ userbase to understand what any of it means though.

>>72126164
Why are you even bothering to have this discussion if you don't think they have any artistic value? How much jazz have you even listened to?

>>72126223
>marketability

In my art, what are you a retard?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnoCI2N9nWw

>>72126182
>Disco and R&B then got WAAAAY more "milage" than either of them.
Let's take a look.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
>40 million copies or more
>AC/DC
>Pink Floyd
>Meat Loaf
>Eagles
>Fleetwood Mac

vs

>Michael Jackson
>Bee Gees
>Whitney Houston

You got 1 disco album and 2 r&b albums (and let's be honest, Thriller is almost as much pop/rock as it is r&b) vs 5 rock-related albums. So I don't think so.

>>72126256
>Louis Armstrong is in hell

You magnificent bastard

>>72126047
delet

>>72126131
correct me if I'm wrong, then, don't just say that it's wrong when I'm just as a sure as you that I'm right

>>72126307
Not a bad compliment at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgNQ4FR6Me8

>>72126224
>How much jazz have you even listened to?
I stopped falling for the "quantity over quality" meme way back in my late teens and haven't looked back since, I don't see any point in dumpster diving for music when I already have music I like.
Do I also need to listen to thousands of local high school pop punk bands to know that I truly can't appreciate pop punk, or should I keep doing it in hopes there will be some incredible musical prodigies hidden there one day?

>>72126388
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdsC71hbq00

You know how I can tell you aren't all that?

>>72126269
Actually yeah. Looking at:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists#250_million_or_more_records
too, there are away more rock artists listed here. I would have imagined they'd have outstripped them by the 80s, but apparently not. Ah well, if current trends continue, give it another 20-30 years and they might pass rock out.

>>72126497
What kind of souless drone judge music for how much it sells?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZ6DoeimP4

>>72126388
I'm sorry, I just assumed you'd actually made an effort to get into the genre seeing as you're spouting opinions about it and pretending to know what you're talking about.

>>72126523
Apparently the guys itt. I don't think it matters all that much, but apparently it's the standard for quality being used.

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>tfw when this is what jazz threads have become

>>72126554
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMIzTh0Lafg

It costs nothing to post something good.

>>72126570
>It costs nothing to post something good.
and yet you still managed to mess it up

>>72126554
There have been some really good jazz threads the past three days. I'd link them but the archive is still down.
This one is just exceptionally shitty and not really a jazz thread, seeing as we're not talking about the music.

>>72126586
>Never listened to the living legend that means it's bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foLzP3qQoSY

Worse than judging it by how many copies it sold.

>>72125921
All that shit sucks, listen to better rap.

>>72125144
This is surprisingly accurate T B Q H

>>72125184

Always considered Charlie Parker to be more of a Listz guy.

>>72126676
Would you bother to post some?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeedn9ma8sg

>>72126103
>blatantly ignoring how popular jazz was and still is in Brazil, France, Spain, and Japan among others

>>72126765
Tbf, I think it's probs more accurate to say he's analogous to Beethoven and seeing bebop as akin to romantic music in that both spawned started and inspired all the weirdness and rule breaking that'd happen later on.
Miles and Coltrane would be more like Wagner and Debussy with free jazz guys like Ornette Coleman and Cecil Taylor being akin to Stravinsky or Schoenberg.
Bach would have to be someone like Art Tatum: very intricate/technically proficient but not necessarily a revolutionary.

>>72126797
Almost forgot about japanese jazz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq4WEu-NLGU

You don't see this in the billboard list.

https://youtu.be/Hrr3dp7zRQY

What do you guys think of Ryo?

>>72126797
>was and and still is in...France
confirmed for making shit up. The beatles and rock music are infinitely more popular than jazz here and france, I'm sure spain too. I don't think real jazz was ever popular in the first place.

>>72126330
Good point

>>72126131
Answer >>72126330

>>72127307
Diggin it.

>>72127365
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkdCr9HlRE0

They are musically defined by jazz, to a ridiculous point.

>>72127365
The Beatles fucking suck, man

>>72127491
>To be 15 again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88

>>72127471
I literally just told you that you don't know what you're talking about. Yes, let what Woody Allen decided to use in his romanticized version of shithole paris define how much the french care about jazz

>>72127491
that's not the point dipshit

>>72127650
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlpDf6XX_j0

Are you being post ironic or something?

You are so wrong that I can't tell.