/classical/

Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJWLU1ja_1Y

>>72066547
nah

Iancu Dumitrescu

Galaxy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC02Wo2dBoc
Meteors and Pulsars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb6QETk6St8

Hovhaness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIZuazBHiW4

Telemann
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezUirMCPWgA

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What was his fucking problem?

>>72067323
music

>>72067323
Communism/autism

>>72067323
Autism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V0X5oyuPUU

>>72067323
He was photogenic but a shit musician which makes him a manslut,

>>72067323
Nothing, he was absolutely perfect. A flower, also a rainbow and a river, the manifestation of all that is perfect.

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post yfw brahms' violin concerto

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>>72068874

>>72067323
his preludes and fugues were breddy gud if you ask me

Are Strauss operas good?

>>72069406
Check out Der Rosenkavalier. If you don't like that one there's little chance you'll like the others.

>>72066968
Hovhaness is criminally underrated.

>>72069526
>Hovhaness is criminally underrated.
I'm not seeing / hearing it. He was a prolix composer, with all the positives and negatives that entails.

Contrapunctus XIV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li6OTu1gIV8

>>72070218
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_P2gWG-VpE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0aDZiUgIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO3ewYOD4zE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uUq-09uruc

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Have you listened to Mozart today?

>>72071093
Does a bear Rundotreskit in the woods

Could anyone rec me some beginner textbooks on composition? I'm working on improving my ear and I want to start working on music composition over the summer.
I've got Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Musical composition but it seems pretty heavy for me, I really know no music theory. What is some super entry level textbooks?

>>72071093
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlnSCD96gyU

>>72069682
Agree, just grab his best of on rutracker and your set on him

>>72069027
I really like the a major one, does that make me pleb?

Is he right?

http://www.charlespetzold.com/blog/2009/09/The-Problematic-Mahler-10th.html

>>72071290
why are libra people so fucking obnoxious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDb1tA_z1zM&t=620s

Gandalf confirmed patrician

>>72071972
im not watching an 11 minute celebrity interview

explain the point pls

>>72072033
Open the link in another tab so the timestamp will work

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>>72071146
The thing is, the only way you will learn how to compose music is by practising it. Textbooks on composition don't teach you how to write music, they teach you the heuristics discovered / invented and used by previous composers. You can learn their tricks just as well by simply imitating them. (Although I guess it depends on the way you learn things in general. Having the heuristic explained to you can certainly help.)
The fact that you're doing ear training is very good. Transcription skills are a composer's bread and butter.

For a relatively comprehensive introduction in basic music theory try Hindemith's "Elementary Training for Musicians". Look it up on
gen.lib.rus.ec and get your version of choice.

>>72072101
>gif of someone doing food service because that's what you'll be doing if you decide to be a composer

>>72072453
You should never kill someone else's dream even when it's likely they're not up to it. It's better to give them enough rope so that they can hang it themselves instead.

>>72071817
>Petzold

yes

>>72072810
being a composer is awesome. just sucks that you literally can't make money from it.

>>72070605
shit sounds so cool when a voice plays a short melody then holds a note while a different voice repeats the melody

Berlioz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfQv8HfNOQc

Is Holst actually good?

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All of Bach's music is incredibly warm and comforting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLvDUeySUoU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sz_E8bBddQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgk53hIRmQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WTSizRjxDg

>>72073571
Post comfy music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0GlLJcThug

Am I supposed to spend weeks listening to different recordings and the same recording and bits and pieces either way of the same opera?

>>72073740
no offense but that sentence is a mess

>>72073740
Depends on how high your autism level is

>>72073740
Just do whatever you want, nigger.

post nice short pieces
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUakxjJDWYE

>>72073971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUwaxooeM3o

>>72073971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCn1iU9HdE8

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>>72073740
music for this feel?

>>72074269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSAGwa49MM

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>>72073710
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1PzMs74-xg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAJo9JvDWug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tucrbvgQko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faMDhKKTVcU

>The Hammerklavier was deemed to be Beethoven's most difficult sonata yet. In fact, it was considered unplayable until almost 15 years later, when Liszt played it in a concert.

Psssh nothing personal kid.

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Reply to this post with the greatest classical piece of you've ever heard

Mine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ik4VMcLkA [Embed]

>>72076819
>Cage
>music
lfmoa

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>>72076835
>implying

>>72076819
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HptoPSrZh-g

I get the impression that all sites of classical music reviews just shill for the big recording companies nonstop.

>>72077151
people do wanna hear what comes from those labels so it's only natural

it's also true that those labels have the necessary money for good production and the best musicians

>>72077151

I always stick with personal reviews, I like Bernard O Hanlon on Amazon, his writing style is very esoteric, but his taste is pretty good and varied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybYIhomm5KM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdnQtOrivV8

>>72077994
Bernard's pretty funny, but also kind of questionable, and he mostly sticks to very subjective and esoteric (as you say) descriptors for performances. A lot of which don't really mean anything to me anymore. I used to read him all the time and he was the one who introduced me to most of the Knappertsbusch recordings I own. My tastes have changed greatly since then.

I think of Bernard as more of an entertainer than a reviewer that I would go to for a top recommendation. He has a decent chunk of reviews which border on trolling.

Speaking of Amazon reviewers, Discophage is pretty good. A bit verbose, perhaps, but also extremely informative and he directly references the score and numerous other recordings for comparison. Pretty agreeable taste.

I used to read Ralph Moore too, but I got tired of his Pristine shilling. Makes me wonder if his ears are just for show.

You guys will probably bully me for this but could you point me towards anything that sounds like this?

https://youtu.be/xO4aaiftLuA

I really know nothing about this genre but I find this entire soundtrack intensely beautiful

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>>72076662
m'lady
dips fedora*

my nigga boulez

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iykjRX8ubZs

>>72079555
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UYce_ECEuk

Peter Watchorn is my new favourite Bach harpsichordist. His WTC recordings are perfection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oocn9CZWpSg&list=PLoO4RoDL3goRdIi25Zz4dsHVkGZitZZAw

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>>72072875
>not giving theory, solfage, melody, harmony, counterpoint and composition lessons to kids in order to keep composing
>not producing in this way 50 new composers who will have to find 50 kids to teach to in order to keep composing

>>72079570
Disgusting. The only waifu for Liszt is Chopin

>>72080848
>no young Liszt x shota Brahms

>>72077151
your impression is accurate
reviewers have always benn shills

>>72079555
You again? That's the first not half-bad song you inquired about these two days. Try English coral music. There's centuries worth available, but dive in wherever. I think that's what you were looking for all along.

>>72080109
>video not available
thanks

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>>72081273
Post more
>coral music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wjrt-unlg4

I only just now discovered that Helmut Walcha was also a composer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IO--gwaWlFY&list=PLuf6ot3g5ZbVvEZZtp4XXuRENnLUggZkI

is this good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf2lZa095jU

What will you be listening to this passiontide /classical/?
>>72081433
I rather like it, particularly Melisande's death. Nothing groundbreaking, but it's enjoyable music.

>>72072875
>you literally can't make money from it.
You literally can. If you're good.

>>72081433
Sibelius has to be the most boring composer ever existed

>>72071093
God tier recording.

>>72071290
No.

petzold

>>72081570
God tier? What about Pollini&Bohm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXeBFhqViYg

>>72066482
Are there any operas set in space?

>>72082997
The earliest one is "Il mondo della luna" by Baldassare Galuppi. Haydn also set the same libretto to music (Hob. 28/7).

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My life is an eternal minor chord that will never fade out.

>>72082997
The best one if you want a pronounced spehhhsss musical ambiance is Blomdahl's Aniara, set on a space ship going to Mars. You can also try Offenbach's A Trip to the Moon which is based on Jules Verne's story.

>>72083255
Forget about Galuppi. Haydn's is the version to listen.

>>72082997
I think the most famous is Janacek's "The Excursions of Mr. Brouček to the Moon and to the 15th Century." And it isn't that famous and is the least recorded of his operas, but it's a lot of fun.

I knew a guy who wanted to stage HMS Pinafore as Starship Pinafore as G&S meets Star Trek. You could probably do something similar for Billy Budd now that I think about it.

>>72083546
So, Tristan und Isolde?

weeeeeeeeeeeedcvfgt

>>72080596
Talk about over-saturating the market. Competition kills your profit margins anon. This is why pop music is so shit. Too many fuckers racing to the bottom to scrape a nickel.

Commerce kills art.

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>>72084528
>>72084538
music for this feel?

>>72084580
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLO-cSr1qZc

>>72084666
why is klempererererer so good? what's his secret ingredient?

>>72084715
a brain tumor

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>>72083546
Capitalism is to blame comrade. You need the joy of more anime in your life. It's the only way to smash the system and bring forth a new golden age for communist music.

Heil Hitler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSHlsWYfvEY

>>72084715
has a pet duck that is always in his memories

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is he the biggest meme composeur of all time?

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>>72082997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_6JXHK2bDw

I find modern interpretations of Bach a la Richter absolutely bizarre.

>>72086351
Which Richter, and why is that?

>>72086496
Both the Matthew Passion and the Mass. For me the romantic tones and the huge orchestra don't like Bach.

>>72086591
don't sound*

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Bruckner's 9th symphony is often associated with the cosmos. I bet space colonists would listen to Bruckner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsdGkV1epHU

>>72086351
>>72086591
Why?

>>72086668
>I bet space colonists would listen to Bruckner.
And I bet by the time they settled on a planet, Celibidache's Bruckner still wouldn't be finished

Do you have any recommendations for someone trying to get into the classical world? I've listened and loved Beethoven's 5th symphony because of the emotions it gives me, but when I try to listen to anything else, it just doesn't click. Anything not too advanced maybe?

>>72086351
The post-Wagnarian Romantic interpretation of ancient works are always awful. The pompous, flaccid and saccharine sound is in direct contradiction with the old style and only serves to masturbate the conductor's ego.

>>72086692
Pleb.

>>72086744
*tips buddhism*

>>72086351
Rifkin > Richter

>>72086738
What the hell are you faggots smoking? If anything, Bach is one of the few (if not the only) Baroque composers that works great when performed in a "post-Wagnerian Romantic" manner because his writing is rich enough to sustain a bigger orchestra in a balanced way, instead of ending up as just a louder version of the same thin texture, but drowned by the strings.

>pompous, flaccid and saccharine
"Pompous" I can buy, but "flaccid and saccharine" is just retarded.

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>>72086870

>>72086668
Because Bach isn't a late romantic?

Big orchestra Bach is basically just soup

>>72086694
https://youtu.be/eqksy-991sI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4nnjhHe15U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJXwlHTzKsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSf2veLfC-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9JW6lL4iMo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxtAHpYIXdU

>>72086937
Trashy alphabet soup that tastes like sewage

>>72086965
Thanks for the emphasis

>>72086979
No problem friend.

Brahms Sextets are underrated.

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>>72086793
>>72086894
>>72086937
What a bunch of pseud faggots.

>>72086903
And?

>>72086773
I don't care what motivated Celibidache's approach to music. The only thing that interests me is the result.

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>>72087083
>cries like a little bitch when people disagree with him

>>72087083
>The only thing that interests me is the result.
Oh, don't get me wrong. It's great for a nap.

>>72087099
Your autism locks you away from a lot of good music, Baroque-kun.

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>I like ruining Bach's and other ancient composers' works with excessive vibrato, rubato and tempos as slow as molasses on a summery night
>and I will moan and groan and pretend that I'm the one with objectively the best taste even though multiple people disagree with me

>>72081505
still takes years of getting paid nothing.

>>72087187
Doesn't matter how many plebs disagree. Their opinion is still collectively worth zilch. Fucking HIPsturds.

>>72087351
Get back on your meds, retard.

reminder that HIP is the only way to listen to early music

academics produce and prefer HIP

the unwashed masses that grew up listening to histrionic Karajan recordings are the ones that want romanticism's taint everywhere

don't be fooled.

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>>72087463
>>72087536
This anon is right you know.

Late Classical (post-Haydn) == late-Romantic (post-Wagner) > late Baroque* (post-Bach) == early Modern (pre-Schönberg) > early Romantic (pre-Wagner) > early Baroque (pre-Bach) == Renaissance > late Modern (post-Schönberg) > early Classical (pre-Haydn) == Contemporary.

(*) but Bach > all

>>72087536
It's the opposite. The biggest HIPsters are baby boomer fogeys who grew up on Karajan. What you're seeing now is the beginning of a backlash against boomer imbecility.

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>>72087655
Haydn is good but Classical as a whole is awful. Easily the worst common practice period.

>>72087751
>Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert etc
>awful
whut

>>72087751
Redpilled af. Watch as dozens of furtherproofers jump on your controversial opinion just because /mu/ has conditioned them into doing so.

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>>72066482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8BcFF2GAnw

>>72087655
wtf i agree with most of this

>>72087789
Why did you reply to yourself you fucking loser

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>>72087815
Try again, queer.

Beethoven

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBo3W_Bw5-Q

>>72087825
Heh. Nice photoshop.

>>72087844
>photoshop
>within 1 minute
Heh, nothing personnel, kid.

REMINDER THAT BEETHOVEN IS A ROMANTIC COMPOSER

>>72087858
False

>>72087751
Early Classical is by far the worst common practice period. Not so for musical Classicism after Haydn slapped some sense back into the music culture. Don't recoil from the social inanities of the time like a pleb. We're talking music here not political philosophy.

>>72087858
He's a late Classical composer that was contemporaneous with the early Romantics. A transition figure at best if you want to split hairs.

End of story.

>>72087771
>Beethoven, Schubert
Why did you post 2 early Romantic composers?

>>72087926
>Beethoven
>Schubert

>Romantic

>>72066482
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0-_rorhlY

Reminder that Beethoven and Schubert fall into their own period in between classical and romantic, because they're both too emotionally adventurous to be classical, but too harmonically and structurally constrained to be romantic.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hVxjyZ22-o

>>72088206
This shit again? They're late Classical. "Emotionally adventurous" is subjectivist nonsense.

Taneyev

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iqW0Obe8G8

>>72087463
>>72087536
Wrong opinions

>>72087831
I prefer Kempff but Schiff is great here.

>>72088621
>>72087831

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7Ykuj0sgM

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song of the nightingale piano transcription

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtDDha_2J00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieRQyyPowH0

>no ravel

wtf is this plebby bullshit

>>72089261
more Stravinsky, directed by Stravinsky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__C9aVdTYdU

btw, during what hours is this general most active?

>>72089507
one of my favorite pieces of music of all times

Walther

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkKweNnkHfY

Who is the recommended conductor for Beethoven's symphonies?

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>>72089687
There is none that is consistently "best" for the whole cycle. I think Igor Markevitch is best for the 5th, but Carlos Kleiber is best for the 7th, and to my surprise, I've found Gardiner's take on the 6th to be the best. And I've yet to find a performance of the 9th that I don't have major issues with for example (mostly because the 4th movement is garbage and it's hard to balance the choral part with the rest of the symphony).

etc.

The thing with Beethoven's symphonies is that he really did change his style significantly. The only two that are alike are the first two. It will be quite a thing when a conductor manages to strike gold for every single one of them.

>>72089687
No such thing, you have to look for each individual symphony as anon above me said.

>>72089914
>>72089933
Who is your preference for the 3rd?

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>tfw no qt buddhist drone gf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbGirPTgF0

>>72090092
The 3rd is much like the 9th. I don't believe anyone has managed to acquire a definitive edge over other conductors in interpreting it (the only thing I am certain when it comes to it though is: stay well away from any HIP interpretation of it, they're all awful, without exception). Unlike the 9th though, there are couple that come close: Furtwängler*, Klemperer and Pierre Monteux.

(*) with the caveat that every existing recording of his performances either has poor audio or is bested by Klemperer or Monteux.

>>72090092
Fricsay is pretty tasty. I'd agree that no one has really pinned down the perfect 3rd but you can safely disregard that other guy's opinion on HIP. There are plenty of decent hip 3rds, just not ideal: Immerseel, Gardiner, Bruggen.

>>72090092
Scherchen, Leibowitz, Monteux, Morris (that Scherzo, wew), Klemperer (the earlier the recording, the better. generally speaking), Gielen (basically Leibowitz-esque tempi but with Klemperer-esque balancing), E. Kleiber, Beinum, any Schuricht, Toscanini, etc. etc.

There are so many worthy Thirds that you can get lost in them.

>>72090540
>stay well away from any HIP interpretation of it, they're all awful, without exception
Somehow I doubt you've heard literally every single HIP version of it.

>>72090850
HIPs suck, deal with it. (I've heard plenty. Beethoven and HIPsterism only go passably well together in the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th symphonies. The reasons why should be obvious.)

>>72091104
The point is that there's a dozens and dozens of HIP recordings out there, many which can be vastly different from the other (Bruggen is miles away from a Norrington, and Norrington can be miles away from himself. Most HIPsters do not even take the metronome markings anywhere close, like Bruggen, Collegium Aureum, Hogwood, Hanover Band)

HIP Beethoven is not generally my preference either (unless we're strictly talking about a general adherence to the metronome markings), but I think claiming them all as awful based on your listening experience of a few is relatively disingenuous, not to mention pretty exaggerated.

Just back from performing lots of renaissance music as part of a Holy Week service

what are you listening to for Holy Week /classical/?

>>72091511
black metal

>>72087911
>transition
Uh, did you just assume his time period?

>>72086591
>>72086738
>>72086965
>>72087187
>>72087463
>eating from the trashcan of pure ideology that is HIP

>>72091543
*rubatos on your face*

>>72090540
>HIP 3
>not indulging in the opening of Savall's eroica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E0_Fvp7AFw

*bm* *bm*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmq1cpcglQ

Do you guys have anything similar to this (Prokofiev - Dance of the Knights) ?

I love the motoric rhythm and the power that the piece projects.

>>72090092
I really like Barbirolli.

>>72091543
That makes no sense.

>>72091661
HIP is really ridiculous if you stop to think about it. It's just LARPing but with the added hubris that - for example - these performers have the "right" to determine that Bach wouldn't have wanted a large orchestra for his passions playing on the most up-to-date instruments possible. You can point to historical practice and manuals on violin-playing from the 17th century but to suggest that this is the "right" way to play the music is pure ideology.

It would be fine if HIP interpreters made it very clear that it's just an interpretative decision, but it's so often passed off as the "only" way to perform it (see: the reactions to "romantic" interpretations baroque music ITT). I'm glad HIP happened because it filled a niche over the past ~50 years but the extent to which it has taken over is not a good thing.

Post 1 underrated and 1 overrated composer but don't say which one is which.

Erik Satie
John Adams

>>72091872
Mozart
Chopin

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>>72091355
Trends and patterns are discernible even when you're missing data points anon. Sure, every inference you make is less certain, but making inferences is still possible. The fact that every performance is different doesn't mean that similarities between certain subsets of performances don't exist -- not every performance is equally dissimilar from every other performance. HIPs cluster together. I don't need to listen to all of them to know that on average, you'd expect a HIP performance to be more similar to another HIP performance than a traditional / modern performance.

But there's more: all the above assumes one only checks out the performances themselves. That's not the only information that's available to us. We also have access to the schematics / guidelines that are followed in producing them (the composer's score). And from there it is pretty easy to deduce that in a HIP orchestra, it is very difficult to make the 3rd fit its britches.

So: could there be an agreeable HIP 3rd out there? Sure, it's possible. It's also extremely unlikely. Combine this with the fact that most HIP conductors and orchestras are mediocre at best (simply because most conductors and orchestras in general are mediocre at best), and the "exaggeration" suddenly doesn't seem so far-fetched anymore.
I'm not being disingenuous. I'm simply very discriminating about things.

/autism

>>72091825
>these performers have the "right" to determine that Bach wouldn't have wanted a large orchestra for his passions playing on the most up-to-date instruments possible

I think it's more like that they know the assets which Bach used, and realize that had he utilized a modern orchestra, choir, etc. he would have likely wrote his works differently. With Bach I find non-HIP to be generally much more acceptable; his music is just that flexible. But I wouldn't say the same holds true for many other baroque composers.

>It would be fine if HIP interpreters made it very clear that it's just an interpretative decision
I mean, there are more than a few that do that. Like Harnoncourt, Venzago, Immerseel, etc. who I think prefer the HIP philosophy more for the aesthetic qualities (the instruments, the smaller orchestra, and the resulting streamlined & transparent textures), but they are still very much putting their own personal stamp on the music.

Of course, there are some HIPsters which are more authoritarian in their views, in that they leave very little room for argument in regards to what is "right" when it comes to a historically-informed style, but you get those kind of conductors aplenty outside of the HIP movement as well. I often wonder how genuine those kinds of people are, though. I always figured they were just marketing themselves.

I think where HIPsters have personally failed me the most is in regards to romantic music. We have some pretty hard evidence for the performance styles of that era, but things like hefty string portamenti and improvisational playing go ignored because I think it makes their ideology quite uncomfortable. There's only one HIPster I can name who confronted those styles in a manner which I find respectable, and that's Slowik.

>>72091825
i hope everyone ignores your will when you die
fucking idiot

lately I've been interested in playing classical pieces


recc me some classical that sounds like something Dracula would play

>>72092383
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-8kJYmInvE

>>72091963
>I don't need to listen to all of them to know that on average, you'd expect a HIP performance to be more similar to another HIP performance than a traditional / modern performance.

I think that's only true because of a comparatively limited pool of data to choose from. You can go pre-60s and find a dozen-or-so Eroicas, all fairly individual, but once that older generation of musicians died out, the mainstream performance style became increasingly homogeneous. I'd wager if you took all the traditional/modern performances from the late 60s onwards, and compared their similarity to that of all the HIPster recordings, that you'd find them to be more-or-less equivalent in terms of similarities. I might even give HIP the slight edge if only because their timbral qualities could be so different, but I suppose that depends on how much you value that kind of thing.

>And from there it is pretty easy to deduce that in a HIP orchestra, it is very difficult to make the 3rd fit its britches.

I can only really agree with you in regards to the Funeral March. And that's mostly because I have yet to hear a HIPster do it in a manner which I find preferable. I think it's generally because of the balancing which inevitably causes the fugue to be underwhelming; the brass is typically completely limpdicked, the timpani comes in too pounding as to overwhelm everything else, and the winds are generally too prominent (I actually think the winds are severely underplayed in this symphony generally speaking, but that's neither here nor there).

>>72092234
Well we're getting into dangerous territory with Romantic HIP as you say. I sang Verdi's Requiem with the Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment and I'm still not sure why it was decided that this was a good decision. And even going more modern than that, I'm fairly certain there has been at least one HIP performance of the Rite of Spring, which seems insane.

>>72092332
>will
It's not any of these composer's "will" though. Of course I can listen to Butt leading the Dunedin consort through a OVPP Matthew Passion because the forces at Bach's disposal for the performance of his passions would have been tiny, but suggesting that such a thing SHOULD be done just because that's probably how Bach heard it performed is silly. And even then, he would have had a bunch of undernourished boys singing the treble lines and not women sopranos. It's the imposition of someone else's aesthetic choices but they don't have the courage to say so, and instead hide behind some counterfactual reasoning.

Of course by the same metric, you can't say Bach would have wanted a massive Mahlerian orchestra and as many singers as he could muster, but that's the difference: these "modern" interpreters aren't trying to pass themselves off as prophets with a unique connection to dead composers and thus able to interpret their works "properly"

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Why is Mahler Symphony 2 so good? My local symphony is playing it in about a month but they really let me down with Dvorak's 9th, so I'm not sure if I'll attend.

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>>72091825
lol

>>72092768
mine did it last year
>both the trumpet and horn cracked those really high notes in the last movement
to be fair though, those two notes sound like murder after an hour of playing

>>72092510
>Well we're getting into dangerous territory with Romantic HIP as you say. I sang Verdi's Requiem with the Orchestra of the Age of the Enlightenment and I'm still not sure why it was decided that this was a good decision.

I think it CAN be good, but many conductors have yet to get the balls to perform it the right way. Norrington is a good example; he used Walter's Mahler 9 as a basis for his performance (nevermind that Walter was a completely different conductor than Mahler), and while he did the usual: trimmed down orchestra, little vibrato, faster tempo... he refused to implement Viennese playing style of the time, with its waltzy string portamento. The performance was fairly bad, not "singly" at all like you might suspect a faster flowing performance to be, but quite choppy and facile. Without portamento, the legato was lost, and all you're left is with a choppy staccato effect. Too much emphasis is placed on bowing technique rather than fingering. The same issue can be found in Norrington again with Wagner's Meistersinger overture. Comparing it to someone like Muck, who times it in around the same time as him, just shows you how far off the mark Norrington can be.

Here's Slowik in Mahler's Adagietto, by the way:

https://f.lewd.se/xkU5Y0.mp3

Just as flowing and singly as Mengelberg or Walter.

>I'm fairly certain there has been at least one HIP performance of the Rite of Spring, which seems insane.
Currentzis? He's not much of a HIPster, honestly. His orchestra utilizes some period approaches but overall that guy is just crazy (in a good way, sometimes. I love his Rameau)

Hans Keller on performance greatness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOd_-cd-MSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XWWSuHwzEA

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>>72092468
>You can go pre-60s and find a dozen-or-so Eroicas, all fairly individual, but once that older generation of musicians died out, the mainstream performance style became increasingly homogeneous.
I think you've mentioned this before. I'm not sure how true it is. I imagine it's downstream of the fact that most older performances are quite literally inaccessible to us due to less advanced recording technology and a less developed recording industry. If you only have a few, usually from the top (because that's what everyone would have bothered to preserve first).

> I'd wager if you took all the traditional/modern performances from the late 60s onwards, and compared their similarity to that of all the HIPster recordings, that you'd find them to be more-or-less equivalent in terms of similarities.
I agree. But HIP performances are still more similar to other HIP performances than modern performances and the same is true for modern performances.

>I can only really agree with you in regards to the Funeral March.
The second movement is only where it's most obvious I'd say. In general slow movements are major sore spots for HIP performances because the various old instruments are very uneven in their capacity to sustain notes. It's always been relatively easy for woodwinds, but harder for strings and brasses.

etc

I could stomach HIPsters more if theyd ditch using period instruments altogether: copy the old playing styles on new instruments.

>>72092510
>OVPP Matthew Passion
Jesus Christ...
"One voice per part" has a certain stench of charlatanism all over it in general (although there are a couple cantatas where I rather like this approach) but in the case of the Matthäus-Passion it reeks like a garbage dump. It was written for the most important religious event (other than Christmas) of the year. To think that Bach intended it to be played by straws is ridiculous. There's no indication of it whatsoever. This is worse than HIPsterism. It's plain bullshit.

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yljkIDoq-ZM

>>72093577
>I think you've mentioned this before. I'm not sure how true it is.
The last time I discussed this, I think I was primarily referencing the loss of distinct timbral qualities between orchestras, which really took its hold following WW2. This is objectively true, really. Most orchestras [sound] extremely samey these days, but this was not at all the case in the first half of the 20th century. Many orchestras had traditions instilled in them which made them extremely unique, take the Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire, which was introduced by Habeneck in 1828 specifically to play Beethoven. The trumpet vibrato is utterly unique. The Wiener Symphoniker was also individual until Karajan beat them into submission. You can find similar patterns in a lot of orchestras. Individuality isn't as pronounced these days, though there are a few orchestras which still produce a distinct house sound.

>>72071501
It's one of the most beautiful things humans have created, so no.

All of them have an idea behind the subject. The A major is based on major triads.

Is there a site like rym for classical music?

Mahler is the Dream Theater of the composers, technically gifted but just too much wankery overall.

>>72088479
I love that Russian romantic sentimentalism of the late 19th and early 20th century

>>72093883
That rings true. The trend predates WWII though. Everything has been standardising out of economic and bureaucratic convenience. Particularism is more and more pronounced the further back in time you go.

>>72093951
nothing "wanky" about mahler

>>72093910
no

>>72093883
>orchestras had traditions instilled in them which made them extremely unique
Could you show some examples? Like two orchestras playing the same piece to highlight the differences. I'm curious and want to know more.

>>72094634
Shame, their format does no favors to classical music.

Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdVo0MsJMOc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmCXZ8ECRdE

>>72094608
Not even in the 3th or the 8th?

>>72094960

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9390xDUuPuU

>>72095149
>>72094960
absolutely not

>>72095487
>watching anime
>especially moeshit anime
kys

What's a fairly mainstream composer you've somehow never experienced before?

>Violinist for 15 years, only recently delved into Bruckner, never heard Mahler.

>>72095512
Sorry senpai that was for a thread on /a/. Have some CPE as apology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tzLguU_2Dg

>>72068874
meme tier played this shit in theory

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You cant beat impressionism

>>72095780

No one who plays Brahms violin concerto could ever say such a fedora comment.


Well... No one who plays it well, at least.

>>72095608
Chopin and Liszt.

>>72095608
Mozart

>>72096009
Never mind you said mainstream composers

>>72095982
Put those artists on your Chopin Liszt.

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>>72094641
Sure.

Here's a few:

>Tchiakovsky, Violin Concerto
Vandernoot/Kogan/Societe des Concerts du Conservatoire:

https://f.lewd.se/CYrkwO_tchai_vc_kog.mp3

Goehr/Spivakovsky/London Symphony Orchestra:

https://f.lewd.se/P7KQ4Q_tchai_vc_spi.mp3

The Conservatoire performance is a helluva lot more gutsy.

>Bruckner, Symphony 3
Andrae/Wiener Symphoniker:

https://f.lewd.se/ArJ5rm_brucker3scherzoandrae.mp3

Schuricht/Wiener Philharmoniker:

https://f.lewd.se/1XYRIQ_bruckner3scherzoschuricht.mp3

Both Viennese orchestras, but quite a different sound on both. In Andrae's recording you get the classic old wire-y sound on the strings, the frequent bits of portamenti creeping in, and the pungent brass.

This kind of string playing was fairly common in Italian orchestras at that time as well (https://f.lewd.se/pNSPBe_la_mer_sabata.mp3)

How about some American orchestras? Stokowski's Philadelphia orchestra in its hey-day is a real treat, and probably my favorite orchestra ever next to Mengelberg's Concertgebouw.

>Wagner, Gotterdammerung Immolation Scene
Stokowski/Philadelphia ('32):

https://f.lewd.se/jWvXwk_immo_stokowski32.mp3

Stokowski/Nilsson/Philadelphia ('62):


Nearly 30 years later he would return to conduct the orchestra as a guest, but by then most of his touches to the orchestra had been lost. Ormandy maintained a ghost of the Stokowski sound, but that's about it. I think what characterizes Stokowski's old orchestra the most is the intense togetherness with which the orchestra played, they always sound so absolutely in-tune with one another, and though the brass screams, you can still hear the rest of the orchestra just fine. The string playing is sumptuous and swooning. No wonder other conductors envied the Philadelphia sound so much.

Just for fun I'll post his Wotan's Farewell too. And yes, that's authentic stereo. In 1932.
https://f.lewd.se/g0OrpR_wotan_farewell.mp3

>>72096059
this isn't reddit.

>>72096068
>Stokowski/Nilsson/Philadelphia ('62):
Opps. Missing the link.

https://f.lewd.se/5YRIly_immo_stokowski62.mp3

>>72096068

Kogan was gutsy as hell though. You might want to stick to orchestral music for this, though I agree with you, just listen to Toscanini or Furtwangler and you'll realize how variable things used to be.

>>72095824
It leaves me unimpressed.

>>72096177
Well, yes, but you can hear the orchestra just fine anyway, and it's basically night-and-day between the LSO and the Conservatoire. I get your point, though.

Pretty much any earlier Conservatoire performance is characterized by this sort of sound.

Here's something purely orchestral from the orchestra.
https://f.lewd.se/MFrU52_beeth_9_schuricht.mp3

There's some Mozart with Markevitch too, I believe, and a bunch of other recordings with Kogan as well. Some live ones on Atlus, too, though I haven't heard them.

>>72096068
>that La Mer
Wew lad
Can you upload the full recording?

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Anyone here enjoy 20th century classical?

>>72067323
Stalin

>>72088289
>the red priest

my nigga

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BbpNukE8yY

>>72097024
21st.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfn575rvSf4

>>72097024
would rather listen to the stuff in that chart than anything from the Baroque period

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>>72097299

>>72069526
Yeah you can fuck off look, no way

Are we /opera/ too? I'm listening to a very great Bellini opera on RAI8 now

>>72098208
Sorry, /classical/ strictly prohibits any discussion or reference to Opera. I already reported you.

>>72093883
>>72094204
>>72096068
Commerce. Kills. Art.

Where do /classical/ anons live?

http://www.strawpoll.me/12722688

And who has the best /classical/ scene?
>>72098208
People still watch TV? The only time I ever watch TV is when I visit my parents' house. They like Mezzo.

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So what is it?

>>72099358
Speaking of Tristan und Isolde, anyone know any good versions of it on youtube?

>>72099358
a half-diminished seventh chord

>>72099439
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWcLaTz4lw

>>72100338
>no video

>listening to Beethoven's 14th quartet
What is this mallgoth garbage? This is barely even Classical.

>>72099358
The end of decadent functionalist autism, and the beginning of the fun, healthy, modern music that we have today.

The anachronistic misfits ITT will tell you otherwise.

>>72099358
>>72099903
A half-diminished seventh chord that doesn't fit the tonality of the bar it's used in and doesn't get resolved.

>>72100984
problem?

not everything is black and white. Musical analysis often has a degree of interpretation.

>>72100959
Do you even know what an "anachronism" is? Since it came up upthread, Bach uses tonal dissonance for dramatic effect several times in the Matthäus-Passion (the very last two chords being a good example). How's that for anachronistic? "Functional autism" has never been a thing except in instrumental music and even there it was a thing only for a couple decades. Renaissance music is littered with examples of tonal """adventurism""". Stop back-projecting Classical-era heuristics where they don't belong.

/biting poor bait to bump the thread and get some more discussion going: chip in you faggots.

>>72101169
I don't think you understand the post you're replying to at all. It was about music history, not harmony.

>>72101169
>get some more discussion going
Perhaps its time to BTFO the guy who thought New complexity was "all bullshit bla bla bla" again?

>>72101205
I think I understood it perfectly. I'm also talking about music history: the idea that the Tristan Chord was what began the trend away from "functional autism" is the actual anachronism.

>>72101213
To my recollection you're the only one who got btfo. Not that surprising you'd regurgitate something stupid again, then.

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oh boy here we go again

>>72101288
You aren't talking about music history, since your only counter-examples were from before Wagner. The context is what happened immediately AFTER Wagner. And even if that is due to coincidence or technological progressions.. it's still irrelevant in the face of the fact that Wagner is the apparent bridge to contemporary music.

>>72101416
>You aren't talking about music history, since your only counter-examples were from before Wagner
Huh? What is you supposition here? Did nothing exist before Wagner? Of course I'm pointing out examples that precede Wagner. That's the whole damn point.
And the 'Tristan Chord' didn't end anything. See Brahms, Rachmaninoff, Neo-classical Stravinsky, Hindemith etc.

All the hullabaloo around this chord is a "just so" story that doesn't even fit the events.

give me one good reason as to why we shouldn't euthanize people that have bad taste

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>>72101527
>>72101416
To go into more detail: of course Wagner made a monster splash in the music culture of his time. But there is no case to be made that tonal modernism is anchored in Wagner's little experiments. Exposure to world music due to the the culture of the time (europeans reaching ever more remote / 'exotic' places; thalassocratic imperialism etc) was certainly a much more important factor.
Secondly, an arguably innate but definitely endogenic 'drive' towards innovation of all sorts is certainly evident in European musical history since the Renaissance.

I love Wagner but to say that he is the end of anything or the beginning of anything besides 'Wagner' is to peddle a lie. His influence only goes as far as his imitators (R. Strauss, Mahler etc).

>>72097024
As long as it's not the atonal shit.

>>72100435
should have been more specific

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McoRns-aWQQ

>>72101547
There's no such thing as "bad taste", just individual taste.
You'd end up euthanizing everyone because everyone has taste that someone else would consider "bad"

>>72101416
>Arguing with that guy
He's dumb enough to believe he's never wrong. If you want 50 posts with almost no content, go for it I guess.

why do academicians hate Mozart
they care only about 10% of his works

>>72102184
>There's no such thing as "bad taste", just individual taste.
Spoken like a true undiscriminating pleb.

>it's all chocolate vs vanilla
The last line of defence for commodity junky shit eaters.

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Do you guys like Franz Schubert.

I sure do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkqDEh-fXVI

M.A. Charpentier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udarRGI_XD

>>72101547
we should, and believe me, you'll be the first to go, buddy

>>72103134
More M.A.C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snxUHRaGTuA

>>72102949
He should have visited brothels less often.

>>72102949
He looked like such a dorky emasculated nerd. No wonder he could only get his dick inside puss.

>>72102949
>>72103385
>>72103520
Schubert sucks.

>>72103252
t. mozart listener

>>72103558
so what, you think listening to Mozart will save you from the noose?

the only one who could save you from the noose is pêtžołd

>>72103612
reading comprehension on a 3rd grade level
as expected

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>>72103667
No, Petzold would get you on the first train to the work camp and the only way you'll get out of there is by working your way to heaven in a puff of smoke.

Death to the bourgeoisie!

>>72103780

Get the fuck out of here.

>>72103753
>t. faggot

"t. X" is Finnish for "Regards, X"
meme properly next time.

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>>72103807
>reactionary screeching
There's a special oven somewhere just for you.

Communist music is best music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqTaHljRDc
We will bring back the Golden Age and it will last for millennia. Heil Hitler!

>>72103844
t. mozart listener

>>72104041
>t. mozart listener
you and half the planet
you'll hang faggot.

>>72102202
Because only 10% is good? All the trash he made before he lied on his deathbed were nothing but fodder.

>>72103385
Who the hell fucks whores raw?

Is it true that Strauss is just a Wagner imitator?

>>72104453
It's true that he's a Wagner imitator. It is not true that he's only that.

space is the perfect environment for classical music

haydn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cs6akfXxHE

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>>72104698
agreed

Hey, in the last thread someone talked about a video of Karajan and Menuhin discussing about music. I've watched it and found it incredibly fascinating, so I was wondering if you guys had more of similar recorded discussions to share here. Part of my fascination comes from the zeitgeist more than what they are truly talking about so, feel free to share anything.

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>almost 290 posts
I'm surprised no one (including myself) had posted this classic yet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snzSGagbl8

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>>72105552
The Language Of The New Music : Wittgenstein and Schönberg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRI_ZSh6iF4

>>72105710
>one hour long

Thanks anon. Will watch that tonight

>>72105552
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btlxxfXcXR0

>>72105780
Watch it at half speed. It's a veritable pleb filter.

>>72076819
heh gta music

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Le prophète, Meyerbeer --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhGSdlV7MwU

>>72105780
You're welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKz6hmQl2BQ

>>72105552
>Karajan
fuck off shill

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>>72106683
Yeah, we're Nazis here. We don't like Karajan. Have some more great Nazi music.

Pélleas und Melisande, Schönberg --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2SvMeyeOgQ

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>>72106659
>>72097181
>>72088289
>>72076018
>download 10GB 40CD Vivaldi boxset
>none of the Vivaldi pieces people post in this general are ever in it
>forced to listen to them for the first time in YouTube quality

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>>72106848
Why didn't you get the VBO/L'Arte dell'Arco boxsets senpai?

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>>72106910
I just might, if they're on any public trackers.
here's what this one has

>>72106957
>ever downloading a box set titled "X The Masterworks"
You deserve it.

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>>72106957
>The Masterworks

Box sets are plebby.

>>72107091
Except the Celibidache's.

>>72106910
>>72106957
Nope, it seems Masterworks is the only boxset on TPB and Rutracker
>>72106996
>>72107034
It's the only boxset out in public, and I'm too lazy to wait 14 hours in queue for a private tracker IRC interview

>>72106739
>Nazi music
>Schönberg
Or should I say, (((Schönberg)))

>>72107126
Stop being lazy and pick out actually good interpretations collection by collection instead letting profiteering record publishing companies do it for you in the bulk.

>>72107126
> I'm too lazy to wait 14 hours in queue for a private tracker IRC interview
But I'm not. I've been looking for any recording of Cherubini's Les deux journées for months now. Lend me a hand and I promise to stop shitposting for a whole thread.

>>72107200
https://interviewfor.red/en/index.html
Learn this and go wait in their queue. I hear they have good shit
I already know all of it but am too lazy to get in the queue again

>>72107145
>t. commie rat
Are you here to discuss music or are you here to discuss politics?

Elgar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9LWe2GS7O8

>>72107257
Much appreciated.

WHERE'S THE NEW THREAD??

>>72107200
>tfw South American with shitty internet and forever barred from private trackers

Not that I blame them though.

>>72107300
There isn't one. /classical/ ends here. (We're barely on page 2 negra. There's still 1-2h before the thread archives. Why the impatience)

Why is Puccini so bad?

>>72107532
Italian music ended with Locatelli

>>72107091
Depends on what it is really.

>>72107711
Anon, do dogs have 4 legs or does it depend on the dog? Do you get what I'm hinting at when I'm asking you this?

>>72107771
it does depend on the dog, although most dogs do have 4 legs

>>72107954
Are box-sets shit or does it depend on the box-set?

>>72107954
>>72108112

What about some italian baroque?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxtO9CzF7-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLClyWb_EI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQbW75y3P9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmWAve3Pvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTPiZup0QmM

A bunch of follias:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8zxoEoA_Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHRdFILo_Yw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnkEnfXv3R8

Also worth mentioning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA0viFTN1zU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7rxl5KsPjs

Didn't check for the quality of the audio, I just wanted to post the names. I'd like to delve into more unknown composers, do you have any suggestion? I listened to pretty much everything from the artists I posted.

>>72108067
Hmmm... I guess that would depend how many legs it has.

Petzold

>>72108285
lel, I just got owned.

>>72108184
Boccherini ain't baroque
Anyway, other Italian baroquers to check out:
>Bertali
>Pasquini
>Cavalli
>Carissimi
>Bassani
>Lotti
>Sammartini
>Galuppi
>Pergolesi

>>72108408
oh I forgot Pessoldi

>>72108408
He isn't italian either.

Newbie doobie
>>72108442

>>72108443
by what metric