Why does it seem like female musicians are rarer than male musicians?

>>71901947
because they are?

>>71901968
yeah but why are there less of them?

>>71901968
This, really, at least in popular styles of music

is that iggy pop

>>71902004
LOL

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>>71901947

Cus they suck.

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>>71902004

>>71901947
Total equality between genres is an illusion. Most women are afraid of doing more than just marrying some dude and taking care of his house and children.

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>>71902004
be nice to kim

Better question. Why do women have shitty form when they play an instrument?

>>71902004
kek it cannot be unseen
>>71901982
high school band chicks are to lazy to multi instrument/only silly boys play guitar/bass/drums

>>71902069
Certain instruments are heavy. To hold them in the way a muscular dude might hold them might be straining on their back/legs/whatever so they hold it in a more comforting albeit unflattering way perhaps.

>>71901947
because they all play bass. nobody cares about the bass player

men are inherently more experimental, women are inherently more normative

Men probably take the initiative more while women seek more conventional roles.

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>>71902069
Perhaps there is something on their chest that gets in the way.

>>71903318
Hey fuck you

>>71903387
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx7eqdkwxEw

I'm gonna get flamed for this but a big part of it is how hostile these environments can be for women. Any woman who puts herself out there is liable to receive hateful comments and sexual harrassment. And a lot of musical spaces, especially indie and hip-hop, and even jazz, are seen as very male spaces. Like why are there seemingly so many famous virtuoso female vocalists but comparatively few famous virtuoso female instrumentalists? It's not because men are worse at singing and better at instruments, or vice versa, it's most likely because the spaces where women would practice instruments or pursue these skills are hostile to them. As an instrumentalist, I've personally seen women get shamed for their choice in instrument, or skill, in a way I just haven't seen with men. You can read comments on this board, or youtube videos, or this very thread that shed a lot of light on why a lot of women might not be so eager to put themselves out there in these scenes.

>>71903419
Shut up, pussy. How many times have you been put into the friendzone?

>>71901947
Because they are

99% of virtually everything interesting is done by a man

You'd think women being the emotional sex they'd be the ones to be on the forefront of creative mediums but yeah

>>71903516
Literally not once but sick counterpoint dude

>>71903419
That's retarded and so are you

Anything remotely resembling discrimination in hipster dens is heavily shunned if not outright banned and when they accomplish anything worth noting they're showered with praise on the grounds that they're female.

If women get flamed it might just be because they're doing dumb shit. If you really want "equality" then be prepared to have people throw peanuts at you when you act like an insufferable twat.

Asia is full of 4'8" girls that can play violin and do all the dumb violin neckswinging and hotdogging.

>>71903419
It's like the whole "Girls can't/won't play guitar thing. Women are held at a lower level than males and the music industry is one of those things. It doesn't matter what a woman does, how great her musicianship and art is, what matters the most to some is her looks. It's the rampant sexisim and hatred that holds women back. A woman can even contribute to a great piece of art and it be held on a miniscule level, when a male can do the same thing and get so much more respect and have much more value.

>>71903554
Sounds sexist

>>71903619
Here's a fun fact, those nice guys that try and make safe spaces for women and combat blatant misogyny are assholes that make women feel unwelcome too, just in their own beta passive aggressive way.

>>71903384
Who is this?

>>71901982
because they're mostly stupid, shallow and untalented?

>>71903602
>>71903602
Bach was the master of counterpoint. He was a man, baby.

>>71903654
Sexist doesn't mean "Something negative about women"

If you're giving special treatment to women on the grounds that they're women then you're the one being sexist

>>71903682
Learning an instrument is a skill that you practice at, talent at an amateur level is a fucking meme that 4chins like you that haven't played an instrument since elementary school pass around to feel special.

>>71903682
Damn, sounds like you've had bad experiences with women, but with an mean generalization like that, you might have brought it on yourself.

>>71901968
>>71901947
not in japan, girls are in all sorts of bands, either singing, playing guitar/drums/bass/whatever
http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=everything&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=&include=both&include_archival=t&include_live=t&origin_countries=japan&limit=country&countries=japan

>>71903710
>If you're giving special treatment to women on the grounds that they're women then you're the one being sexist
No saying you should, but how is your post not sexist? You said that women are virtually incapable of being creative indicating that their sex is the reason

>>71903646
I kind of agree, but what if a woman makes something that garbage should she get her ass kissed because she's a woman?

>>71903754
meant to say not instead of no

>>71901947
Same amount of singers

Same amount of piano

But string instruments lower

>>71901947
>Why does it seem like female musicians are rarer than male musicians?
this is incorrect. women inspire men to make music
so all male musicians are female musicians

>>71901947
There are social boons for learning an instrument that men get that women don't. I mean, think about it. How much would you really care if a girl knew an instrument well? But how nuts do women go for guys who can strum a couple of chords?

As for the reason for that, dunno man. Probably evolutionary.

There's also the fact that most men are thing/tool-oriented rather than people-oriented, while most women are the other way around, and instruments are things/tools, so...

Mainly, I think it's a mistake to think the difference is entirely, or even mostly, cultural. It's biological.

>>71903646
>>71903419
Do you even have some evidence about people not giving a shit about female musicians?

Even my country, which is a shithole, female artist have the same level of respect as any male one.

>>71901947
my sister sounds the trumpet, she's really good

my and my brother never learned an instrument, too busy playing mario 64 as a kid, fug.

>>71903669
Cry me a river. The world in the 21st century is prejudiced against anyone and everybody and this is the most forward-thinking society that's ever existed. If "women not being accepted" into underground music scenes is supposed to be a problem the so is virtually everything else to enormously bigger magnitudes.

Actually accomplish something worth talking about and people will like and respect you. Otherwise if people making snarky comments is the delimiter that stops you from expressing yourself creatively then good riddance, you never cared about it anyway.

>>71903764
It she makes garbage then she should be open for ridicule and not give the "Sexisim and hatred" excuse.

Men dominate music and sports for some reason

>>71901947
I mean what kind of music are we talking about? In orchestras there are more women than men

>>71903754
>You said that women are virtually incapable of being creative indicating that their sex is the reason
No I didn't, I never implied their sex had inherently anything to do with it

I just said it's extremely disproportionate

>>71903865
that's interesting I never knew that

>>71903865
/mu/ only knows about pop music

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>>71903835
>Why are there fewer female musicians?
<Well there's a lot of discrimina-
>Who fucking cares LOL there are bigger problems in the world

im in college for music. its 80% women in my class. heck my professor is female
anyway this is another bait thread made by some bored autist.

>>71903921
That's every college, take a bigger look at your field buddy.

>>71901947
notice how there are no great female rock guitarists?

it's proof that women are shallow attention seekers, because sitting in their room for 10 years practicing guitar is too much for them to do something without being validated and getting attention for. there is not one female guitarist in probably the top 200-300 best rock guitarists

>>71903805
I never said that people don't give a shit, just held a lower level at times.

>>71901947
Just because some women don't care about strumming a guitar doesn't mean they "don't get it".

That being said, most of the time an average female singer gets more praise than an average male vocalist, so it's all about which way do you want to look at it.

>>71903967
>take a bigger look at your field buddy.
pop is mostly female. so what field am i missing?

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>>71903970
>implying

>>71904011
kek what kind of list is that

>>71904011
>1 female out of 20
sounds about right and look its the lady who killed kurt cobain.

>>71904000
I mean if trips say pop singing is a good representation of the music field then who the fuck am i to argue

>>71903912
If that's suppose to be an issue then virtually everything else is an issue to and should be bitched about in enormously greater magnitutes. That's the equivalent of complaining about "mansplaining" when there's a billion people on the planet that believe women should be stoned for adultery.

No one fucking cares if you're a woman. I can't overstate just how much people don't care. It pisses me off that this is even a conversation in the year 2017

>>71903912
Kek seriously. Gender roles and occupational distributions change by the decade and line of latitude. Women being underrepresented is not biological, it's sociological. All you people who want to blame nature and not discrimination for this must surely want to fuck 12-14 year old boys. I mean, if it was masculine in ancient Greece, why wouldn't it be today?

>>71901947
I don't even know if this is true. Like, can anyone find a single statistic that there are more men who play musical instruments and write songs than women? Because I can't. Male artists just have greater visibility. Men are more likely to become successful in the industry because misogyny. That's the obvious but true answer that a lot of pussies/losers on this board who feel threatened by talented women love to deny.

Iq distribution.

women have a much smaller one.

there are more idiots that are men but also more geniuses.

also women don't seem to have the same obsessive drive as men. there are exceptions but when was the last time you heard of a woman not leaving her house for a week because she was producing music 8 hours a day?

>>71904049
If anyone gave enough of a fuck about the shallow pussyass challenges you have to face every day, and someone said that to you, you'd probably still get upset.

>>71904038
>I mean if trips say pop singing is a good representation of the music field then who the fuck am i to argue
when topics like this happen frankly it is. OP is asking why are female musicians rarer which translate into = bands that get talked about in publications/blogs/tv

its crazy but maybe most girls just don't like being musicians. just like the majority of guys don't like being hairdresser or makeup artist. we could argue but society's programming but that's a topic that goes beyond 4chan.

anyway yes there is sexism and all that jazz in the industry but again topics like that on 4chan don't help defeat it

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>all this teenage cuckery based on an ideology

sad. it's not going to get you laid

>>71904071
>there are exceptions but when was the last time you heard of a woman not leaving her house for a week because she was producing music 8 hours a day?

this. 99.99999% of women need constant attention and validation which is the obvious reason why all the great musicians are male. the only """""""great"""""" female musicians are all singers. something they can practice and do in the presence of other people.

>>71903419
the one voice of reason in this thread, thank you

>>71904107
It's just an opinion, I don't sit and think "i'm going to do or say this because it might get me laid".

>>71904068
It's definitely a convenient answer I don't know if it's true or not. What about independent artists? I know of far more male Bandcamps than I do female Bandcamps

>>71904068
okay. link me 3 soundclouds or bandcamps of great female producers right now then

>>71904146
then you're thinking wrong. Think from the dick, not from the mind, not from the heart. Feel with your dick. Reason with your dick. There's a reason why 90% of all your nerves are at the tip of your penis. It's the second brain

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>>71903419
>it's a let excuse women because the problem actually lies with men episode
>women were totally as talented and driven to be great musicians all along but men stopped them

how bluepilled are you beta faggot?

>>71904146
It's an opinion that flies in the face of a mountain of genuine research. making you either ignorant due to subscribing so heavily to a far left ideology or an idiot.

>>71904171
not him but this is good
https://soundcloud.com/tokimonsta

>>71904205
>you think in a different way than I do
>idiot

If women want genuine feminism, it comes with responsibility. Which means you should be able to criticize them as much as you would a man.

>>71904088
I make music. I've had people telling me I'm not supposed to engage in or enjoy activities because I'm a "white boy" for the past decade and I've been having the same conversation ever since and standing up for other people ever since.

It's stupidly obnoxious and comes from pretentious psuedo-adults that act like they're above people when in reality they're just too stupid to understand art and how it appeals to people and if it were happening to any other creed or race people would write a fucking novel about what I've went through.

>>71904123
This guy is 100% on the money but with a weird tone of condescension that suggests that this is somehow a bad thing.

Woman are more socially oriented than men; they're just so much less likely to want to hide away from society with a bunch of inanimate objects to the extent that it takes to become a great musician.

Yeah sure, the music industry can be a shitty place for women in some places, I'll accept that. But that's not a full account. I'll bet if you look at Scandinavian societies, where gender equality has been effectively achieved, the numbers will be the same if not more. Because it's not social, it's biological. It doesn't mean that they're "inferior" or whatever stupid pol/fags claim, they're just biologically different and more drawn to other fields.

>>71904244
I could have an opinion that the sun was blue. That would make me an idiot.

>>71904223
nah tokimonsta is shit

should have used this little lady https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmG9OeoHMiA

>>71904272
But that's a fucking stupid one that's beyond reason.

>>71904223
>posting someone that's obviously ghost produced

show me a genuine female bedroom producer that has no men involved

>>71904293
Grimes

>>71904293
here u go>>71904277

>>71904198
its not fun playing music when getting constantly harrased

>>71904282
so is the idea that men and women's aspirations are entirely level and that it's society that holds women back

shitty female artists are constantly being pushed in our faces. which is made even more ironic by the fact that if they were men nobody would look twice at them

>>71904313
bedroom musicians don't get harassed

>>71904107
>pic of based prof peterson
My nigga

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>>71904293
Laurel Halo

Basically a girl that's just a boy

>>71904123
This is literally the opposite of true. The reason more men promote their stuff and are more visible in the music industry is because it's men who are attention whores, not women. More female musicians are perfectly happy not putting their stuff out there. As a result, it never gets heard and we end up with millions of 4chan theads of autist virgins saying "why cant women produce music LMAO!!"

>>71904313
you're a bluepilled retard

>>71904318
Dude maybe you think that every man and woman is responsible for their own destiny and can do anything and has 100% full agency, but the truth is that people are largely just products of their environment and upbringing.

And shitty male artists are constantly pushed in our faces too so...

>>71904329
I know her and like her. she is the exception I was referring to.

it's not like I'm trying to prove there are no good female artists. but that obsessive drive is entirely different in men and women. Women will be more inclined to do whatever gets the most social cred because they are more social than men. Where as men will be obsessed with creating the best piece of art they can possibly achieve.

>>71904329
shes also a big sjw from the looks of things

>>71904371
Yeah you'd think that wouldn't be a profound concept

If someone's going to argue with this they better be ready to present their Nobel Prize worthy paper deconstructing fundamental biological inclinations

>>71904365
people are largely products of their genetics actually. environment plays into how those genetics express.

If you are of the idea that women want to be nurses and men want to run businesses because of sociological reasons you are simply wrong.

As always there are exceptions. but exceptions aren't the rule.

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genuinely sad to see so many young minds indoctrinated into cultural marxism

>>71904395
She really isn't. She's not explicitly going out of her way to not look like the female archetype because of some ideology she wants to show off, she just does what she likes

Anyway she's just an artist that's a female and you'd have to look extremely hard to find a guy that would object to her making music because she's a woman. Suddenly when you have a female musician that lacks any pretentious or extraneous attributes people stop being "sexist"

>>71904452
nah she is an sjw lmao
but i like her music tho

I want /pol/ to leave, stop ruining /mu/!

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>>71904011
>david yow

>>71904452
right?

This is legitimate feminism that I agree with. I would be furious if a girl like this was held back due to being a female. why? Because if she was male I'd be judging her art on the same level.

>>71904477
>everyone subscribe to my far left ideology and don't present rational arguments or GET OUT

you know American marxist "intellectuals" of the 60s and 70s used to brag about not reading a book in years?

>>71904433
Exceptions on a scale of hundreds of millions of people is still made up of millions of people. That's a LOT of people that are being hypothetically discriminated against and not even remotely encouraged by their society or upbringing, except for maybe some select role models they might have. Why? We can solve this problem, but first we have to acknowledge that the problem exists and not buy into these pathetic misinformed appeals to nature.

>>71904506
because we aren't all racist, xenophobic, transphobic, homophobic, sexist, bigoted peices of shit. Fuck you and your hate culture.

>>71904506
not an argument

>>71903669
Hahah see guys you just cant win with roasties theyre always triggered so forget about their feelings honestly.

Also leave creating music to the men honestly girls can be gifted performers but fucking hacks as writers

>>71904554
that's all well and good until a woman is 35 and miserable because she chose a career over kids because society told her it would make her happy and empowered.

>>71904616
Talking to either gender is a skill, and every skill just takes practice.

>>71904629
Society should tell everyone to do whatever the fuck they want to do as long as its not provably destructive.

>>71904644
telling people to do whatever they want is destructive in itself

>>71904598
Stop being a pussy. You fucks constantly bend over backwards to accomodate women/blacks/whatever and what do they do in return? They will never respect you for being a cuck

>>71904665
Only if it would create destructive results

>>71904644
Well no shit, but woman are now being convinced to take up careers and leave what their role has been for the last 100,000 years. They do it then they many realize they're hard wired to rear kids.

>>71901947

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dHk2lLaDzlM

>>71903680
>71903680
angel olsen

Wow, this is the most beta thread on 4chan right now. Well done /mu/.

>>71904666
a cuck and a good person are two different things

>>71904598

Is this post satire?

>>71905057
Awww, poor baby. Mad I'm not so full of hate as you are?

>>71905103

Seem pretty hateful to me.

>>71905160
How?

>>71904598
>>71905103
>>71905185
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgHNtzxO0y8

>>71905185

"Fuck you and your hate culture"
Direct aggressiveness, also a very ironic statement
"Awww, poor baby"
Passive aggressiveness
The only one even being close to hateful in this thread is you.

>>71903419
/thread

>>71903727
Some of the most acclaimed soundtrack composers there are also women.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmNqQYknnrE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnLMDKGYcVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ej27Ly6eE8

>>71901947
Normally because of the way children are raised. Boys are a little more stimulated to be criative and girls to be pratical, so logical boys would be more prominent in music than girls.

>>71905367
Bradon's a troll.

>>71901947
PATRIARCHY

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>>71902051
i was gonna come ITT and try to reply as a feminist but this is actually true for way too many women. Some see it as the easiest way to get trough life, some are just blindly taught to behave like that. pretty fucking sad, but the number of the ones who realize we don't have to live as leeches (thus doing their thing, getting into music and shit) is rising from what i can see

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>>71904198
>frogposter
>using 'bluepilled' unironically
Every time

>>71903419
It's literally the opposite. Mediocre female artists like Pharmakon, Grimes, and slews of girl punk bands are praised for being women instead of the merit of their music.

>>71905990
You're looking at the issue from a very narrow point of view. Those female artists already 'made it'. If they were less successful, they'd be getting shit on. Everyone gets shit on but if a woman is shit in music then she'll get extra shit because people will just say she's trying to capitalize on her gender when she has no talent.

>>71906022
There is no "shitting on" female musicians the way you describe it, leftists live in a fantasy world where women get tomatoes thrown at them for stepping outside.
Aside from anonymous shitposters, show me how female musicians are unfairly targeted based on their gender.

>>71906052
>There is no "shitting on" female musicians the way you describe it
Very much disagree, may not be a huge issue but it does happen
> leftists live in a fantasy world where women get tomatoes thrown at them for stepping outside.
Of course you have to make this political. Seriously, what's wrong with you people who feel the need to tell everyone their political affiliation? Nobody cares anymore.

>>71906085
>Nobody cares anymore.
This is not even remotely true. Politics is the #1 priority of most people in America at the moment.

>>71904412
There is no consensus in any scientific field that there is a biological inclination for human females to be more social. That'd be the real Nobel Prize winning paper.

>>71903318
>Plen

>>71906163
Not on this site. Every thread either-
>Someone tries to derail the thread into political shitfest
>Someone succeeds into derailing thread into political shitfest
Seriously man, this is /mu/ for music. There's a politics board if you want to shitpost about right vs left.

>>71903646
thanks for wearing a trip so i can filter you and never have to read your dumb opinions again

>>71901947
cause boys rule and girls drool anon

>>71904345
>something exists even though I have no evidence of it

fucking kill yourself

>>71906992
That's literally the whole thread. There's no scientific consensus at all that women and men's presences in various fields or social behaviors are biological, but no one cares that no one's supporting that claim with evidence. Meanwhile, one person says that men are more visible because they're the real attention whores, and oh, all of a sudden evidence becomes very important. Weird.

>>71907171
the evidence is that men completely dominate while women don't. if women were so talented and driven enough to be good at music there would be more. simple as that

>>71901947
because biology

>>71901947
It's probably cause women are less technically minded. On a semi related note women seem to go into singing more than men, or at least female singers are more famous.

>>71902147
What the fuck are you holding, a piano?

>>71903795
>it's biological
Boys are given trucks to play with, girls are given dolls to play with.

>>71903419
I'd agree with you there, in certain genres. I think alot of recent pop music is actually more female dominant, seems every pop singer is female and complains about men constantly...

>>71903419
cuck

>>71904345
>more female musicians are perfectly happy not putting their stuff out there
need sauce

>>71907247
I mean that's potentially the situation, but it's not evidence for your claim. That's like saying "women live longer than men because they're smarter, so they make better decisions. The evidence is that women live longer than men on average bc men are making stupid decisions and dying".

>>71903419

I have been in music school basically from birth and I have seen none of this.

Men make more music per capita, but women buy more music and get more radio play.

Well, because it turns out there are more men interested on music than women. Why are you even asking this?

Metal and prog are two genres that consistently elude women, although they've always been well represented in punk and alternative.