/Classical/

>>71771386
hey guys, what is a good intro to classical? i'm interested in trying out the genre.

>>71771713
Start with Mozart, Beethoven, Johann Sebastian Bach and Tchaikovsky.

I recommend listening to Mozarts The Magic Flute.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et27CpqBvBE

is there any happy-sounding 12 tone music? Is it possible?

>>71771793
thank you. i will also try to read up some history on them. I know they're the big names but don't know anything about them, and like to read about the artist/composer.

>>71771793
No. 12 tone "music" is what happens when you fail at harmony: disharmony. That's all you get.

>>71771928
Meant for >>71771835

>>71771793
would you be able to suggest anything classical in the guitar realm? Not sure how popular the guitar really was before amplifiers since thats what allowed them to kinda take more spotlight in music.

I play guitar and have always loved neoclassical guitarists in music, even though its overdone in metal. I'd go to a virtuoso if there was one near me, but i'm still learning the guitar in general anyway so its not like i'm ready for one.

>>71771974
S. Myers - Cavatina https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEO0OzAw_44
L. Brouwer - Un Dia de Noviembre https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v36l7eVXvZc
F. Tárrega - Lágrima https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jot7Q9n7L9U
R. Dyens - Tango en Skai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI55KAtSdSc
D. Reis - Se Ela Perguntar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-rc_9wvrhw
J. Pernambuco - Sons de Carrilhões https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDzekDP4IKI
E. Nazareth - Odeon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Lmpim5lG4
I. Albeniz - Asturias - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx7vOb7GNBg
F. Tárrega - Recuerdos de la Alhambra https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHNOUPmkFlI
A. Barrios - La Catedral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGwvXCYgiuU
R. Willis - Serenata del Mar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN9P3YyX-Co
S. L. Weiss - Passacaglia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXma1J9uoAY
F. Sor - B-minor Study https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2QHaYnmsCw
F. Tárrega - Capricho Árabe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06GVrYP6NKs
H. Villa-Lobos - Prelúdio no. 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXkDWaTr18Q

>>71771974
W. A. Mozart - Rondo alla Turca https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26HLgXWF-Co
E. Granados - Spanish Dance no. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=310r2AOr0Lw
N. Paganini - Caprice 24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk
F. Chopin - Op. 9, no. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOhfSpaedzU
F. Chopin - Op. Posth, No. 20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utwHSylN47I
J-C. Debussy - Clair de Lune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFLPdxdvEXk
J-C. Debussy - Arabesque no. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7udClrQtmws
J. S. Bach - Cello Suite no. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGipFrts650
A. Pärt - Für Alina https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eseUe93oAUg
E. Satie - Gymnopedie no. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSO-uZKrZus
E. Satie - Gnossienne no. 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTi8VcKpWcQ
L. van Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata (1st mov.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFenfpuI8-8
L. van Beethoven - Sonata Pathetique (2nd mov.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MHNmLPTub8
F. Schubert - Ständchen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjmWCqAZRpM

>>71771835
I am not familiar with much in the twelve tone repertoire but it seems conceivable. I poked at my keyboard and came up with this stuff. I went and mocked it up in this online sequencer so you can verify they are tone rows.

https://onlinesequencer.net/439596

>>71772124
reminds me of some IDM wank.

>>71772045
>>71772027

Stop spamming the thread with memes

>>71771835
'Happy' implies major chords. There are no discernible major chords in 12-tone music.

12-tone and atonal music excels at sounding "neutral". It is neither happy nor sad. It can either neutral like webern, full of romantic sentiment like schoenberg or unsettling like stravinsky or bartok's music for celesta etc.
Or it can be full blown dissonance like penderecki's threnody, or just seemingly random sounds and timbres like Stockhausen's kontakte.

>>71771713
>>71771793
>DUDE ALL COMPOSITIONS THAT ARE OLD ARE CLASSICAL LMAO
>DUDE BAROQUE AND ROMANTIC? HUH???? IT'S ALL CLASSICAL MY DUDE HAHAHA

You are disgust me, brainlet.

>>71773074
Hey, I'm glad you're back! Listen to some Mozart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNeirjA65Dk

>>71772856
C minor 7th, D diminished, F minor 7th sounds pretty bright to me.

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>>71773106
Overacted, redundant dribble. He had a thousand ideas and they never resolve. He's more in the vein of the aspie "DUDE JUST PUT WHATEVER IN LMAO" of the romantics than the fundamentalists who used music in a more mathematical form. WTC and Bach's fugal craft in general is almost machine -- inhuman. And yet, it feels so good. The zart shart is an essentric faggot who couldn't develop a phrase because he was a brainlet.

>>71773129
dim 7th I meant to say.

>>71773246
Nice. Have some more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3EJqvKhYzY

Ahhh... it's lovely~

Post music for the decline of Western civilization and the upcoming new dark ages.

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>>71771386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNQqyv88H7E

>>71773531
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFLhGq0060w

Got anything sinister and villainous as all fuck? Something like Toccata and Fugue in D minor, but less overused.

>>71774269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYnvDL0Qcw

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>>71774269

>>71774269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_f9B4pPtg

>>71774279
Well meme'd, my friend.

>>71774418
Intriguing, thank you.

>>71774435
I did always love this one, I think a malevolent spin on it would be easy enough.

>>71774439
Minor Bach Fugues seem to be your version of "villainous", so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJCuew6mIFE

>>71771835
https://clyp.it/eei2cbf1

Seems so

>>71774453
Pretty much spot-on. It is appreciated. Hard to believe I just had to move over a letter.

>>71774469
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmq1cpcglQ

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>>71774468
That's cute anon.

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>>71774468
Nice

>>71771835
The opening of the 4th movement of Shosti 14 is nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvfv74cj8eg

Have you been underrating Boulanger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGr7iq1YN_Y

>>71774799
Oh wait, 5th movement

>>71774606
Woah, very good shit.

>>71771386
Anyone have this album? Interested.

>>71774804
can u underrate a shit composer

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>>71774926
apparently people do it with Mozart all the time

http://www.strawpoll.me/12603082

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>>71774999

These videos are a godsend for people like me who can't read sheet music. I can finally appreciate this music on a higher level of understanding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZBtAjVcqbU

>>71775016
learn to read sheet music you fud

>>71775016
lol

>>71775041
I've always wanted to, but it's so... ugly and confusing. I have to stare at it for 10 minutes just to figure out what the hell is going on.
[spoiler]I also use synthesia videos on Youtube to learn piano[/nospoilerson/mu/]

>>71775080
surely you must be one of our next liszts

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>>71775064
>tfw you actually start to understand Schoenberg

>>71775123
>random asian loli
>the best

I highly doubt it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXtjkNpTPy8

>not thinking mozart is GOAT in 2017

gtfo plebs

>>71775197
He was here yesterday posting shitty opinions and getting btfo, so no doubt you won't have to wait long

Post the best song you've ever heard.

Post moar obscure informative videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m1DksRJtGQ
Very interesting.

>>71771835
Jazz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs9EsiZoptM

>>71775236
Have 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs0vSC9DUhU

Note that "song" refers to a piece for solo voice and accompaniment. plebs tend to misuse that term

>>71775239
ok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sykB4znEk2Q

>>71775426
Someone hasn't heard the Beecham
The Mozart reorchestration is actuallt pretty GOAT

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Which are Bach's best keyboard works, and are there any sets that aren't worth my attention?

>>71775080
Yikes... my condolences.

>>71775660
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmm1kC_fAaU

>>71775686
>Here is my expert opinion which is clearly worth listening to since I have posted it on a Senegalese maize fermentation newsletter

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>>71775707

What even is the point in listening to bach

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mgE5UGBz4aA

Nice fugue by Liszt

>>71775822
this literally sounds like someone dropped a piano from a crane and recorded it

Is Holst the most boring composer that has ever walked on this planet?

>>71776051
no bach is

Who is the biggest composeur

>>71776107
Petzold

>>71776107
Handel was pretty large

>>71776176

>Handel was often given to fits of uncontrollable hunger. One such fit occurred during the 1727 coronation of King George II. The king related this account, "I was most dismayed during my coronation when I observed the portly Handel eating sheet music. I immediately ordered one of my servants to fetch him some alimentation before he started eating orchestra members." There seems to have been no pattern as to when the hunger fits occrued. There are similar eye witness accounts of them at the premiere of his oratorio, "Judas Macabeus", where he reprtedly began gnawing on a velvet curtain.

>/classical/ is reverting to /b/-tier shitposting again
I'm with these guys

>>71774837
>>71775197

Fuck you /mu/.

>>71775302
>taking a britbong's opinions on music seriously
Really dude, it's like listening to starving africans give opinions on fine dining.

>>71776269
>>71776269
Wouldn't a starving man have lower standards? Like, they'd gorge on anything. They used to eat bird droppings during famines. If even a hungry bong is saying no... really makes ya think don't it? :^)

>>71775955
Enjoyment

>tfw listened to full sonatas and partitas for solo violin, and both WTC books today.
It was a good day. Such charming and effortlessly intricate music. Playful, unpredictable and satisfying,

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>>71776239
>wahh wahhhhh people are pointing out my favourite composer is a literal mud piler
/classical/ is not your safe space faggot.
eat shit.

can we get a separate /pianists/ general for classical piano music?

i'd like to have discussion on beethoven, chopin,, schubert, schumann, bach, mozart et al without constant intermittent shitposting about "shitpin" and "bog" and music from the middle ages which I don't actually care about

>>71776652
Nah silly goose
We're all one happy family, and the memes are here to stay

>>71773074
i don't see your ass offering anything

>>71776584
>haha safe space faggot because i'm saying something subjective is definitively shit and if you respond i'm just gonna call you a faggot

>>71774269
https://youtu.be/hJKWzPyC9Rg

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>>71775660
https://youtu.be/KTcJHfDq7gE
>are there any sets that aren't worth my attention
Musical Offering sucks lmao

post good >tfw gf classical

Post something you've listened to in the past week that you really enjoyed.

>>71777004
Kropfganns sonata for lute and violin in C minor

>>71776911
Good stuff, thanks anon

>>71775730
Noice, I've never actually heard that one on piano before

Why did Mozart only write 1 piece in e minor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UhnfWzOCMo

Are all the Bach English Suites for keyboard boring?

How to get my father into high test? He dislikes anything that contains trumpet/trombonet.

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>>71777715
Why are you interested in your father's testosterone fag? Anyway get this, a beautiful album for trumpet.

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>>71778007
He wants his dad to be able to get a boner so that he could blow on it like a trumpet obv

>>71778007
>>71778069
Because I want him to enjoy going to concerts with me, you fucking fags. Went to see Mahler's 5th with him, he had his arms crossed all the time and only liked the Adagietto.

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>>71778214
>I-I want daddy's approval!!!
Sounds pretty gay desu.
>Mahler
>high test
lmfoa

>>71777004
Hummel's 3rd piano concerto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fd4jRw840M

>>71778214
>only liked the Adagietto
sounds pretty gay desu. Does he like watching little blond polish boys on the beach?

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>>71778868
Do NOT bully Aschenbach

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTuOSwbho5Y

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>play piano
>see this
wat do?

>>71776652
>he doesn't report bogposter's shitposts
>he doesn't listen to renaissance masses and motets
Plebeius maximus

>>71779573
play the notes with my penis

>>71778214
>Mahler's fifth

Now you've ruined music for him. What a terrible son

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>tfw your keyboard doesn't have a harpsichord setting

>>71777004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M5n3oWhyTQ

>>71777524
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsd3f5CJkbU

No

>>71777004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kooLGVb9k6A

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>>71777004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV1SLw6FXRw

>>71777004
I've been relistening to one of my favorites: Dimmu F. Borgir's Symphony No. 8 in D minor 'Gateways' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jw7yk8hm_0

>>71773074
>Anon doesn't doesn't know much about the music you like but is interested
>"FUCKING IDIOT HOW DON'T YOU KNOW THIS? BRAINLET"

>>71771974
Hovhaness has a few guitar concertos.

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>>71777004

Beata Viscera, Pérotin --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kobNrLkz26k
It's pretty hard to find a properly good complete performance of it. In this one the ison is doubled with tibetan style drone chanting. That aside it's probably the best one available (on youtube or elsewhere).

Also been listening to increasingly more Renaissance music, beyond the Palestrinas and Monteverdis. Tomás Luis de Victoria was a pretty cool discovery. Vidi speciosam --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffnj9-Mrpf4

Could someone please share Stabat Mater by Pergolesi? Links in the archive are dead.
And could anyone rec me something alike, I'm pretty new to /classical/

>>71774269
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJs4WF0zCh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5rQwfcU70E

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>>71781367

Magnificat, Bach --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1uFnc45wAE
You can also try Bach's rearrangement of the Pergolesi's music for the Miserere psalm in German (BWV 1083), it has a richer texture. Bach's church cantatas in general are a treasure trove.

Messiah, Handel --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-QF2DYVOjI
It's better than anything Pegolesi has ever composed taken together.

>>71777777

>>71781712
>>71777777

tzepolD?

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>>71778941
>408x462

>>71778214
I had the same situation. Everything I liked, he disliked. It was really annoying.

>>71778427
t. raised by single mother.

>>71782555
What the fuck is this

>>71780153
22 tone equal temperament riffs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO5xSjIHyMg

John cages prepared piano sonatas are a meme but also really good lads.........

Hey, anybody knows a good essential compilation album of Chopin's Piano pieces ?

R8 my mixtape, /classical/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkyk6SSUd-8

Now, seriously, what do you think of the music? Can you find any clues in it? It was written by Cicada.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q__KMRoOdo0
A RVW piano suite arranged for string orchestra by some poor sap the description doesn't even credit.

RVW is always a strange one for me. There are two little voices in my head when I listen to his simplest stuff.
>Pah! What is this crap? No fine German motivic development or anything. No better than a medley. I spit upon this.
>aaaaaaaahh the cellos sound so good playing greensleeves, oh my goooddddd
I hate them both equally.

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>>71784478
They're rummage. Cage really was a musically talentless conman with penchant for marketing.

>>71784591
You fell for Nick Land's art project m8.
This is just CCRU2.0

>>71784478
they're an interesting experiment, but unfortunately there's just not that much musical content there

>>71784851
His late symphonies are more "serious" in the teutonic sense that (somewhat unfortunately) became monolithic in classical music for far too long.
VW is a p. good composer overall. The early symphonies generally strike a nice balance between being very easy to listen to (unless you're one of the plebs that complain the sea symphony goes on for too long) but there's still some meat to them. Similarly for some of his other orchestral works and concerti (something like Flos Campi is really very interesting, but Lark Ascending is just all meme)
His folk song settings are - for the most part - very inoffensive, but I sort of prefer that to some of Britten's more obtuse settings, where the accompaniment might as well be for a completely different song.

>>71782985
Aschenbach

>>71785144
It looks to me like someone cosplaying Death in Venice and the Tadzio is not as pretty as he needs to be

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>>71785201
here u go

>>71784591
The last time I was asked about cicada stuff on /mu/, I found some guy who some magazines hail as the "next Mozart";
who's studied how music, particularly Mozart, helps babies' brains grow;
whose music is basically pop-style repeating chord progressions with classical instrumentation and a facile pretense at sounding classical-ish;
who's written a very bland set of variations on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star in an attempt to be as Mozart-like as possible;
and who, in a comment section on some Bach concerto of dubious authorship where someone complained that the harpsichordist's realization of the concerto was bland and uninteresting, replied that this was because it was actually written by CPE Bach, who could never match the genius of his father. Then when told he didn't seem to know what he was talking about, said that he had been studying thoroughbass for longer than they'd been alive, and that it took a seasoned ear to hear CPE's fingerprints.

Never again

>>71773531
Back to /pol/

>>71785240
kek

>>71776183
Lmao

>tfw had to endure conversations with people who know nothing about classical music but have seen Death in Venice and assume it's biographical about Mahler's life, so see him as a gay pedo who was mercilessly bullied by his psychopathic friend Alfred Schoenberg
Visconti has a lot to answer for

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>>71771386
just embarking on a comfy voyage..

Why haven't you listened to any futurist music today /classical/?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GpN5FHO60c

>>71785240
>who, in a comment section on some Bach concerto of dubious authorship where someone complained that the harpsichordist's realization of the concerto was bland and uninteresting, replied that this was because it was actually written by CPE Bach, who could never match the genius of his father. Then when told he didn't seem to know what he was talking about, said that he had been studying thoroughbass for longer than they'd been alive, and that it took a seasoned ear to hear CPE's fingerprints.
pls post

>>71784851
>>71785015
>VW is a p. good composer overall
Really? I would have thought you'd think less of him from the general tone of your posts. His schtick was to mine libraries for forgotten hymns, load the melody (or his own variation of it) on the strings (and by the numbers parts for the rest of the orchestra), with slower tempo, adding the occasional modulation and whatnot. He uses this exact method even in his symphonies. Well, the first two. I gave up listening to his shit midway through the Pastoral. Are the later ones really better?

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>>71785486
>>71785270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph_ERXCaBKg
Here you go.

>>71785765
Oh, whoops, that's a sonata. It was a while ago, and I believe I listened to some Bach concertos as well for cicada

>>71785765
In 1975, I walked Bob Dylan up on stage!

>>71785201
Aschenbach

>>71785656
I have a soft spot for VW since I fell in love with classical music thanks to his Sea Symphony.
Up to 5, his symphonies are more or less as you describe.
Then comes 6 which is really not what you'd expect from him. It's often seen as a response to the end of WWII and the atomic bomb. The first movement starts with the orchestra playing in two different keys, tritones feature prominently in the second movement and the final two movements are fugal in character, with the final movement being played almost entirely at pp so as to be nearly impercetible
7 is more or less a film score. Very characterful, but not as "difficult" as 6, very evocative (particularly the 3rd movement)
8 is a lighter symphony, but uses a massive percussion section and quite different to early works
And 9 is the one nobody can really agree on. It's a nice bookend, combining aspects of the early symphonies with VW's very cheeky sense of humour (he made a big point of scoring for tenor saxophone and flugelhorn because he liked how they sounded and then stuck them in the middle of the orchestral texture) as well as the folk-song aspects that underpin a lot of his work.

I mentioned Flos Campi too, a concerto for viola that also features a wordless choir. It's based on Song of Songs and is also bitonal. It's got both the massive lush string textures you associate with VW as well as the strange percussion and modal tonalities that characterise his later works

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>>71785765
>he has a website
http://www.thomasschoenberger.com/blog/
The face of the new Mozart

>>71785956
I considered I'd want his Fantasia on a theme of Thomas Tallis played at my memorial until I realized there'd probably be nobody there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihx5LCF1yJY

>>71786049
>An unusually prolific composer, he has created thousands of original compositions, from piano concerto’s to symphony’s and operas
>tfw too intelligent to use punctuation correctly
>>71786100
It's sometimes quite therapeutic to sit in a dark room and have it playing, it's one of those pieces that suits it.
It's also quite funny to remember that his final two concertanti works were for harmonica and tuba.

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>>71785956
Thank you for the brief anon, you've made me curious. I'll go back and try his last 4 symphonies. Maybe I sold him short. Do you have any preferred recordings?

>>71786194
https://www.pissedconsumer.com/thomas-schoenberger-music/RT-F.html
>stalks people online and is a(n alleged) pedophile
It just gets better

>>71786305
>You people are jealous of Thomas' success; he's a brilliant musician. Who are you? Thomas stands up against oppression; maybe you are being paid by his enemies. We know he was banned from YouTube for standing up against tyranny, because he told us himself. Stop bad nothing him anonymously!

>>71786214
For complete cycles, Boult or Handley are probably the safest bets (they happen to be fairly similar in their interpretations, I think I'd edge towards Handley's as the better overall). It's been a while since I listened to Hickox, but I remember that being pretty good too. There's a Previn set that supposedly has some audio problems in the later works, but I don't think I've listened to it and if I have, I can't remember what it was like. There's also a Haitink set which might be worth a listen if you already like him as a conductor.

I'd also recommend the Spano+Atlanta Symphony Sea Symphony recording. Instead of languishing in it like some grand Elgarian imperial ode, Spano moves through it at a good speed that I think does a lot to alleviate the problems people have with the work.

>>71786375
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix4zIp7HFKo
>Blank ending because we end up blank
This is totally autistic and I think I'm done looking into this guy and his weird old drama with this Steve Leflar guy.

Is it time for delusional classical personalities? Posting an old favourite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vwBkg3TbHg

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>>71786467
>Comments are disabled for this video.

>>71786467
>Fantasyland
How appropriate

>>71786467
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mFuB49CLcI
>virtuoso challenges that push the limits on what a pianist can do at the keyboard
kek

>>71786467
Truly the Frahnz Liszt of his generation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUFQtGY_5a0

>>71786756
>Is Richard Kastle the only pianist in the world who can nonchalently put his sunglasses on and take them off again without missing a note, or even using his hands for that matter? I bet Marc Andre-Hamelin couldn't do that. Nor could Liszt. Or Chopin. RICHARD KASTLE IS THE GREATEST. KASTLE!! KASTLE!! KASTLE!!

>>71786467
>that fucking lava lamp

>>71786316

What's your opinion on this.

>>71787054
meh

>>71787054
Don't really have an opinion. I haven't listened to those albums since High school.

>>71787054
classical music does not rely on albums for diffusion like popular music and so doesn't really fit comfortably with the concept of a "best album ever" competition. It's unfortunate that /mu/'s taste will be represented as completely lacking art music but I'm sure we can lend that thread our bogposter to liven things up.

>>71787054
dont particularly care

>>71771386
Anyone got some Liszt links? In particular his Transcendental etudes S.139?

>>71781367
francois couperin - lecons de tenebres,
Allegri - miserere
Zelenka - miserere
Monteverdi - vespers
Verdi - requiem

Thoughts on James Ferraro?

>>71787248
he's the new debussy

>>71787248
love him <3

>>71787054
Not interested. /classical/ and the occasional art/experimental music thread are the only ones I am on /mu/ for.

>>71787200
there's the 99CD complete Liszt piano works boxset on rutracker. You'll find what you're looking for there

why are mahler's orchestras so fucking big
thats not necessary
what an edgester

>>71787248
Used to be a much bigger fan than I am now. Far Side Virtual was my AOTY. The older I get, though, the simpler my tastes get, and I don't enjoy an interesting concept these days nearly as much as I enjoy a pleasing melody.

And James Farraro is much more of a conceptual musician than he is a melodic one.

What is musical realism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYO9gTmCJTE

is lang lang autistic?

>>71787728
Pretty sure Strauss' works call for even larger orchestras, and the standard orchestral size today is larger than it was in Mahler's time.

>>71787821
most musicians at that level are due to the fact that they spent their formative years practising for 8 hours per day instead of developing social skills. Pianists get it worse because it's not even like they have an accompanist/chamber ensemble to combine music with socialising.

>>71787728
>thats not necessary
Why not? Had you studied its scores you would know that no note is wasted. He had huge orchestras (which were still as large as romantic ones) and he used them to their full extent.

>>71771835
Dallapiccola has lots of borderline-pastoral serial pieces. That said he does't try to obfuscate themes and harmonies, making his music serial only by accident (most of the time it can be described as simply modal)

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>>71787728
*cowbells on your face*

>>71787901
thank goodness that I have /classical/ for when I want to shitpost about classical music.

>>71787925
>Had you studied its scores you would know that no note is wasted.
There are still only first and second violin, the usual string section, and aside from a couple of extras like organs and choirs and mandolins, he doesn't really add more "parts", just doubles up existing ones with more instruments. All that does is make the whole thing louder.

>>71788001
Those sections are dealing with multiple melodic lines, which are supposed to be clear.
Same applies for winds. Other instruments are there for specofic colors and musical moments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjDTl-TvJWY

who's another composer that has a mysticism feel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIOifQrFtmU


What is your favorite aria?

Schoenberg on Gershwin:
>Many musicians do not consider George Gershwin a serious composer. But they should understand that, serious or not, he is a composer – that is, a man who lives in music and expresses everything, serious or not, sound or superficial, by means of music, because it is his native language. There are a number of composers, serious (as they believe) or not (as I know), who learned to add notes together. But they are only serious on account of a perfect lack of humor and soul.

>>71789770
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KCpph1nrpk
Wish this were performed more often at my local concert hall

Post light-hearted slow music.

>>71789888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V87wGyfUQiQ
The middle movement is lovely.

>>71787821
Not at all, listening to his interviews and basically any video where he interacts with other humans reveals that he is indeed quite normal and actually somewhat charismatic.

Some people seem to enjoy how certain pianists thrash about at the piano, they consider it another aspect of the performance the same as watching dancers except obviously the primary focus is the music rather than the dance. Someone like Lang Lang is bombastic because that's what his fans like, Trifonov seems to genuinely get lost in the music which makes his playing very striking and impassioned, Weissenberg and Hofmann by most accounts just sort of sat there and played like the masters they were. I personally don't give a shit, do what you want as long as your playing is good.

>>71787887
That's a bit harsh. Evgeny Kissin is someone that more than likely is on the spectrum. Marc-Andre Hamelin on the other hand is perfectly normal and possibly the most incredible pianist alive. 'Pianists' make up a very broad demographic, same as any other field. You just notice the weird ones more often because they stand out more.

Obviously not many of the world's leading physicists for example began studying material related to their discipline as early as 4-5 years old but the impact of early exposure is overrated in my opinion. Kissin was going to be strange regardless of whether he decided to become a pianist or a pilot, the piano didn't do that to him, it just so happened that he had a predilection for music and a lack of interest for socialization and women.

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What should I feel about Bruckner?

>>71790174
You should feel what you want.

Who is a good tenor for Die Winterreise?

>>71789770
adorno BTFO

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>>71787054
>/mu/'s best albums of all time
>no classical

pleb /mu/ in action.

>>71781367
get pic related, should be on rutracker

>>71790174
you should feel sadness for the loss of the 6th army and hitler's suicide

Is it normal to listen to an entire opera without falling asleep in the middle only to be woken up by a famous aria only to fall back to sleep?

>>71789770
Gershwin is absolutely based

>>71790174
You're feeling it already: Uncertainty, and enough boredom to post on a US anime forum

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>>71788883
Akira is best Aria
Also this https://youtu.be/uCs-IDJkALs

>>71790541
wow..kek

>>71775016
lol

Aschenbach

>>71791356
Auerbach

Is Auerbach /ourbach/?

>>71790438
I think it's funny how thoroughly Adorno would fellate Schoenberg and the latter simply would never have it.

>go listen to Petzold's minuet that was stolen by Bog on YT
>comments saying how Bach was genius
I lose my sides everytime.

best beethoven quartet?

>>71793715
13

>>71792082
>Adorno would fellate Schoenberg
Give him a break, he was his composition teacher. That said, Schoenberg was a pathetic philosopher and Adorno as a composer was almost as good as him.

can someone give me the redpill on music between ~1860 - ~1910. I can't seem to 'get into it'. Have been through most eras in classical music but am having a hard time breaking this wall

>>71787821

that was a fucking butchering of rhapsody holy fuck

>>71777004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKgcHjq1xKQ

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>>71790174
In ideal conditions, you would feel awe.

Bruckner was something of a savant in that he was fixated on one thing to the detriment of all else. He always yearned for the majestic and overpowering. Maybe because he was an organist and really liked being smashed into that wall of sound. With some of the larger organs you can actually feel the air flutter around you when you're near the pipes (like, say, when you're sitting at the keyboard). a slight tremor also gets propagated through the body so you can actually feel vibrations with the tip of your finger every time you press a key. It's very obvious in the bass register, the amplitude being so large you can feel the tremors easily through your shoes.
This is most clear in his symphonies. They're very lush and unmelodious. The focus is always on the orchestral sound mass as a whole, not individual lines. I like to listen to anything Bruckner at slower tempi. With literal interpretations of his work you get too much clumping and clustering and it's hard to parse anything more than the effect of the texture and vague impressions here and there.

He strikes a good balance for the first time with the 4th symphony. Its development is cyclical and the main motif is pleasant in its own right and very memorable. It's one of only a couple of his symphonies that I like played closer to its written pacing as much as I like it slowed down (the other being the 7th, which is also very melodious in character).

Solti with the CSO is pretty good for it --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsFSp7xmpZw

Celibidache is the epitome for Bruckner interpretations though, always. Every aspect of the symphony is just so much clearer --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7m119eOys

>>71775185

overrated contrarian at best

>>71794762
>He always yearned for the majestic and overpowering
And young virgins. If Bruckner were alive today I am 100% certain he would be an anon, crossboarding between /mu/, /a/ and /r9k/ talking about moe, music and how women are disgusting sluts all day long.

>>71794762
Celibidache is far too slow in his Munich years. All of the rhythmic inertia is sucked out of the music for the sake of this cathedral of sound, which, while beautiful in its own way (largely in part due to Celibidache's autistic balancing sense, which he had even in his early years), still falls short of what makes Bruckner, well, Bruckner. There's too much legato and Celibidache's articulation fails to accentuate meter.

I vastly prefer his earlier years, where the balances are just as idiosyncratic, but his tempi aren't nearly as glacial. His later years are interesting, but far too extreme in the other direction, to the point of it being in bad taste. Not a great recommendation for a newbie to Bruckner.

This idea of Bruckner as this massive and gigantic conductor is primarily due to the perverted interpretive miscalculations of the latter half of the 20th century, of which Karajan is likely the most guilty of; as he was the one who established the precedent of conducting Bruckner in this soft, chocolate, and overtly drawn-out manner. Listen to any other conductor who grew up during the 19th century; Andreae, Furtwängler, Kabasta, Klemperer, Walter, Adler, Schuricht, Abendroth, etc - and you'll find that their conducting tends to be much faster, superior in flexibility, and more sensitive to the larger metrical accents (and resulting rhythmic thrust) of Bruckner's fast movements, which are overtly modeled on Beethoven's notion of Allegro.

I submit to you that the "clumping and clustering" you find in faster, more "literal" interpretations (literal is the wrong word, by the way) is likely due to the beefed up musical forces you encounter in modern recordings, after all, the orchestra in Bruckner's day was much smaller, and the instruments -- far quieter. The crassness and (purported) grandeaur of Solti seems in direct opposition to what the sound of Bruckner's time was. I'm afraid I can't agree on that recording either.

>>71795030
Also, friendly reminder that Solti was the one who created that awful and disgusting house sound which the CSO unfortunately submitted to for a few decades. The vulgar brass was so overbearingly loud that they literally had to place a large plexiglass panel in front of the brass players to protect the people in front of them. Nevermind that following this they were not only loud, but also cramped.

Ugh, I hate Solti-era CSO so much.

>>71794619
Listen to Brahms late chamber music. Staart with his piano quintet.

>>71795064
As Richard Strauss used to say, "Never look at the brass - it only encourages them."

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is this any good

>>71795030
I can't agree.

Maybe it depends on what it is about Bruckner that piques your interest. I like the Wagner in Bruckner, not the Beethoven. He copied Beethoven's structures diligently but the meat he puts on that skeleton is too heavy and bends it crooked. Furtwängler's interpretation of the 4th is a good example for this from the get go. I can't stand the accelerando you get after the horn opening. Very Beethovenian but here It just doesn't work. It's like a fast forward through a rising tide. It feels unnatural.

That sort of development works in Beethoven because he also changes the motif slightly to fit the transformation. Outside of codas his symphonies rarely get louder AND faster at the same time. Plus, they're differently orchestrated, with most of the sound mass still packed in the strings which have a leaner timbre. Bruckner is heavy in the back rows just like Wagner, but trapped between the styles of the two. A diamond in the rough, pretty much.

I've never heard a true HIP performance of Bruckner though. I'm not sure that'd change my opinion much. I like Solti's pomp.

As for Celibidache, yeah, the 1960s and 1970s bootlegs and live recordings are great too. Two heads above any of the Klemperers and Furtwänglers when it comes to Bruckner. But the 4th isn't as rhythmically complex as, say, the 6th, for example, so I don't think much is lost on that front with a slower performance.

>>71781684
>>71787212
>>71790454
thank you

>>71795342
>But the 4th isn't as rhythmically complex as, say, the 6th
Which is also an example, by the way, of how Celibidache didn't always go for much slower tempi in his later years. His 6th with the Munich Philharmonic isn't that much slower than other conductors' (it's just as slow as Abbado's, Inbal's or Eschenbach's). He couldn't have conducted it otherwise. Slow it down too much and you kill the rhythmic pattern. Celibidache, it seems to me, had very keen grasp of what works best in Bruckner and it is in his performances that all the essential elements of the composition really stand out.

(I'm not a Celi fanboy in general btw, I simply like him for Bruckner above and beyond any other conductor.)

>>71795342
Schubert is much closer to Bruckner than Bruckner was to Wagner
Bruckner's teacher was even a Schubert student

>>71795462
That's the environment he was formed in but not what he sought to emulate. He was a huge Wagner fan. He even dedicated a symphony to him, didn't he?

>>71795516
Bruckner was a musical conservative really, his strict approach to form is kinda the opposite to Wagner's liberal breaking of past rules and norms
Only thing I can think of that Bruckner took away from Wagner in a large sense was his approaches towards tonality which mostly only reer their head in the 8th and 9th

>>71795342
>I like the Wagner in Bruckner, not the Beethoven
Bruckner doesn't really have too much Wagner in it. His students and the people who constantly edited and re-edited his works tried to make him into a Wagner, but with Haas and Nowak (not to mention the modern editions), a lot of those perversions are removed. Outside of Bruckner's direct tributes to Wagner--the 3rd symphony and the 7th's Adagio--he's a lot closer to Schubert. The same sort of folk-like lyrical melody and rich free counterpoint, very similar approaches to sonata form, and figuratively varied repetitions that do not alter the function of the material they repeat.

>I can't stand the accelerando you get after the horn opening.
Hefty rubato is a common aesthetic staple of conductors hailing from the 19th century. I can understand disliking it, but much of Bruckner's favorite conductors and studen'ts certainly conducted that way. I also don't think it's very accurate to claim it as Beethovenian, since Beethoven likely would've hated that kind of free-approach to tempi.

Anyway, I quite like Celibidache myself, but I don't think he really comes as a first recommendation for Bruckner. Really, I think he's a conductor for more experienced Bruckner listeners, anyway.

You guys should be autistic about good composers instead, like Chopin

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what are some good waltzes?

>>71795578
>>71795557
>Bruckner was a musical conservative etc
Just like Brahms: formally but not stylistically. He starts with a similar sound as Schubert in his 8th and unfinished 9th symphonies but by the 3rd he's already stylistically very much a mid 19th century composer, and by the 7th Bruckner's connection with the style of the late classical composers is completely elided. All that remains is the structure. Part of this also perhaps because he started to write music pretty late in life. It's hard to change you composition methods/habits at that age.

I don't really care about the edits hullabaloo.

>>71795683
Ok, I just realised the wording in this post is confusing:
>He starts with a similar sound as Schubert [had developed] in his [Schubert's] 8th and (unfinished) 9th symphonies
>but by the 3rd he's already
>by [Bruckner's] 3rd [Bruckner] is already...

>>71795652
Chopin was a clown. The 19th century equivalent of today's 'virtuoso' rock guitarists that go on 15 minute solo "shredding" wankfests. Sure, you can appreciate the showmanship, but there's not much musically to chew on with Chopin besides that.

>>71795716
>catchy melody
>senseless piano shredding
>repeat catchy melody
>continue with more senseless piano shredding
The average Chopin 'composition method' in a nutshell.

>>71795716
>>71795736
Most of it is salon music and sugary show-off material, but there's some good stuff. Like his F minor fantasie

>>71795716
>>71795736
>Brucknertards actually believe this

Vivaldi's Four Seasons is objectively the best classical piece ever composed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA

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Favorite interpretation of Rach's Piano Concerto 2?

I've listened to so many. Rach himself, Kissin, Tsujii, Fedorova, Rubinstein, etc.

I haven't found one better than Kissin's w/ the London Symphony Orchestra.

Also I think I can listen to Rach 2 every day until I die.

>>71795786
Stephen Hough; he's about the only one who plays it with the pace and momentum of the recordings in Rach's original days

>>71795808
Then no thanks, sorry. I've heard the only reason why Rach played it so quickly is to fit the time limitations he had on the records.

>>71795818
You heard wrong.

>>71795831
Then with the relatively faster tempo, piss poor recording, and sub par orchestra, it isn't going to be preferred at all.

>>71795818
Horowitz's recording of Rach 3 I know for a fact, but other than that I'm not sure that's correct

>>71795776
yeah pretty much

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>>71795776
t. Dilettante. They're not even among Vivaldi's best.
https://youtu.be/EkSuDn6Qvus
Educate yourself.

>>71795808
Listening to Hough's Rach 2 mvt 1. I can't help but hate the phrasing.

>>71795776
>he doesn't even post a good recording of the piece
Looks like we have an honest to god plebeian on our hands.

>>71795818
Rach actually wanted to play it quicker, but Stokowski wanted it slower, so they compromised.

>>71795870
>sub par orchestra
There is nothing about Stokowski's orchestra that was sub par.

Also, it's the only recording of Rach's concerto that had the later tunings to the orchestration that he made with Stokowski's help. Those modifications were never published.

Not that I care much, though. It isn't music that I particularly love.

>>71795924
What's bad about it? You're being too vague

i feel like such a pleb everytime i visit /classical/
i have much to learn from you

>>71795952
we all feel like that, it's not like anyone can know everything about all the music

just pick up what you can and listen to what you like

>>71795952
it has a lot of content, just like any other genre, no reason to be intimidated

>>71795949
The climax of mvt 1.There's too little dynamics on his end nor any subtle tempo changes. I'm too lazy to compare but if this is what's reflected on the shitty Rach recordings then meh. It's my single favorite part of the entire concerto.

There's a dance b/w the orchestra and piano. Not necessarily identical, but sharing the same motif just slightly off. Hough sounds like he's fighting the orchestra for dominance instead of working together with them.

Disappointing.

>>71796027
Have you ever considered that the version you like is an aberration and that Hough's is the way it's supposed to be?

>>71796060
Too bad there's no strict definition on what music is supposed to "be", even if written directly onto the sheet music.

Maybe that's why music is an art and highly subjective. Maybe that's why people can listen to harsh noise wall and find it unironically enjoyable even if I personally don't.

>>71795776
Babby's first classical music since 1725.

>>71795786
Either Earl Wild or Weissenberg, depending on how I feel at any given moment.

Rach 2 is fun enough to listen to and I definitely had my phase where I thought I'd never grow tired of it but there's so much great stuff in the genre that I don't see how anyone can stay fixated on it other than a lack of familiarity with the piano repertoire. It's pretty 'safe' if that makes any sense. The concerti of Rautavaara, Medtner, Bartok, Scharwenka, Prokofiev, etc. are all much more engaging in my opinion.

His second sonata on the other hand especially when played by Weissenberg is one hell of a piano work and much more deserving of the Rach 2 crowning if you ask me.

>>71796081
>A large amount of people agree with me, therefore I am wrong

contrarian much?

>>71796097
>a whopping one (1) person ITT agrees with you
Delusion much?

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>>71796114
>>a whopping one (1) person ITT agrees with you
ITT yeah

I was refering to the real world with real people where Vivaldi's Four Season is seen as one of the greatest if not the greatest piece.

>>71796150
>it's popular with plebeians, therefor it's good
The average drooling retard doesn't know much about art music. What is your metric anyway, youtube views?

GTFO faggot.

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>>71796150
>real world
>where rabid normalshit plebians outweigh the patricians 10k to 1
Fucking retard. Never speak to me ever again.

>>71796175
>>71796183

>>>muh normies

Beethoven is not overrated.

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>>71796389
I can't disagree with that.

Complete Op. 84 --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdE3bGV0qYI

>>71795952
>tfw I sometimes stumble across embarrassing old posts of mine in the archives from when I started posting in /classical/ in early 2013
/classical/ has unironically (and positively) influenced my life. I've learnt a lot of stuff here that I don't think I would have done otherwise.

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>>71796685
>/classical/ has unironically (and positively) influenced my life. I've learnt a lot of stuff here that I don't think I would have done otherwise.
really?

>>71795155
It's passable insofar as the composers picked are representative of their respective periods but not that good when it comes to which works are representative of their individual oeuvre.

>>71796714
Yes. Years later you'd look back and cringe at your obsession with a tiny Japanese figure skating boy as well.

>>71796789
Honestly that's more respectable than publicly announcing a bunch of random strangers shitposting on 4chan has been a positive experience.

>>71796880
I agree.

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>>71796685
>>71796714
>>71796789
>>71796880
>this whole conversation

>>71796714
Yeah. Of course it isn't exclusively responsible, but there are people on /classical/ who really know their stuff and having "conversations" with them has been really invaluable, especially since they can happen in a way that doesn't happen in face-to-face conversations (those are good too, but in a different sense)
It does feel like it has taken a drop in quality over the past year, but I think that isn't entirely due to /classical/ being shit - although we do seem to have lost some of the better posters - and rather because I now learn a lot more stuff from reading books/academic articles, so it seems like a less rich resource.
I don't think I would have had the base knowledge required to get to this point without ~2 years of reading those posts by knowledgeable people and not understanding parts of them, meaning that I had to go away and do some reading - at least seeking clarification within the thread - so I could reply.
Then there is the usual idea that anonymity means you can make mistakes without worrying about how they reflect on you (or shitpost recklessly, if you so choose). Add in the "contrarianism" of 4chan generally and you get exposed to opinions you don't often see elsewhere which can be good when they are well-articulated but awful when they're not (see: bogposting)

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>>71796939
>shitpost recklessly

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>he's so pleb that he hasn't seen the beauty and power of Richard Wagner
>he's so pleb that he hasn't watched and listened to all 16 hours in surround sound
>he's so pleb that he thinks Wagner is just the Ride of the Valkyries, arguable a not very important piece of music used only to introduce an act in the actual music drama

>He thinks he's smart or interesting by only listening to tiny baroque pieces and ignoring Wagner's top tier synthesis of Greek and Shakespearean tragedy and modern music and poetry

"There's only Ludwig and Richard." --- Mahler

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>>71773074
>Baroque / Romantic antinomy

>>71797043
>all 16 hours
dude that's only like 4 operas worth
there's a lot more german screaming than that

>>71797090
Yeah I'm talking about the Ring.

German screaming is the height of poetry and music I'll have you know.

t. Lieder and poetry fag

>>71797118
>German screaming is the height of poetry and music I'll have you know.
I have trouble enjoying the sound of opera singers. They put so much power into their voice that you can barely hear the note anymore through all the natural vibrato and resonance

>>71797118
>a 16 hour Ring
Dear god. Wagner would be turning in his grave.

>>71797244
It depends on the singers, really. Listen to Melchior in his prime, and he's clear as a bell. Perfect diction. Notes completely sustained.

A lot of singers vibrato so hard these days that they just wobble around the notes vaguely.

>>71797244
The main problem is that there's simply a drought of talent when it comes to operatic singers these days. Not to mention that singers have to out-scream even larger orchestras most of the time. I feel bad for them.

>>71797244
I'm no musicologist but the dramatic singing of the Ring remedies that somewhat in my experience. Some performances have people who can sing in an incredibly distinct way. And the libretto itself favours this.

>>71797350
That's the longest time I've heard it run, I'm exaggerating in my shitposting.

>He doesn't think, live, breathe, smoke, and dream of Wagner

>>71797554
Smoking is gay

>>71797683
So was Wagner

>>71790306
pregardien

>>71795716
>>71795736
>can't into Chopin's rich counterpoint
Glenn Gould pls go

>>71790306
Peter Anders is my favorite, but many will probably think him too hammy. I agree with the other poster, Prégardien is a delight

does anyone know where is this music from?
at min 6:47
https://youtu.be/7MQRpUrhIGQ?t=386

Petzold

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKJz_XgqkXA

>>71799152
Does not sound classical.

Probably Kevin Macleod or someone like that

>>71795776
You misspelled "Nuages Gris", anon.

>>71799152
>>71799555
I think he means that it does not sound Germanic or French or Italian. It's 'orientalist' (like Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade). If it's an excerpt, it could be from some of his works or some other composer from his circle, unless it's a contemporary snippet written in the same manner.

>>71799708
the phrase structure sounds too pop-culture and too "bite-sized" (if you get what I mean) for it to be from a piece of classical music, so I thought it might be a contemporary piece

Either that, or it's just a really well-selected snippet from a very particular section of a classical piece that works on its own without context

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>>71798811
>rich
>counterpoint
Pick none.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FymZsN_NiB4

Deb's first Etude is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard.

Post a personal favorite composition that you fall in love with every time.

>>71801551
Though I don't like the way Uchida plays it. It's much to rushed.

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>>71801266
I think I'll pick both

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I see some /classical/ family confessions upthread. Here's mine: cellos give me a boner.

I think my wiring is messed up. It started pretty vanilla, with cellists. But over time it's gone to the point where just seeing a cello can get my thing throbbing. I fear that in the future hearing a cello being played will be enough to set my pants on fire. What if I pop a boner while listening to Dvořák's cello concerto or something --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6acJJ-3Ag4

(C-cool story, r-right? It's all a lie actually. I'm o-only taking advantage of the fact that we're reaching bump limit and sneaking a s-s-shitpost in.)

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lol

>>71802005
>professional reviewers
At this point it's not even funny anymore

>>71801551
his piano studies were ahead of their time

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The first 30 seconds of this fill my heart with absolute joy and bliss
https://clyp.it/3trq20yi
When did a composition last make -you- have these feels?

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>>71802005
>>71802088

Who cares anyway?

>>71802558
Too operatic for me.

>>71802558
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj33HliB5v0

>>71801551
>Deb's first Etude is one of the most beautiful pieces of music I've ever heard.
Hue hue hue

>>71773129
>>71773266
>Dim 7th sounds bright
Proof?

>>71803071
debussy's etudes were harmony studies, sketches and jokes. I doubt he wanted them to sound 'beautiful'

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>>71803092
if you can rock the bed to it it's bright in my book Sure it's furious but sometimes you're really horny man.

>>71803121
>debussy's etudes were harmony studies, sketches and jokes
And technical exercises. Like all etudes (literally "studies" in French).

>I doubt he wanted them to sound 'beautiful'
Exactly my point.

>>71799555
>>71799666
How come no one checked these beauties until now?

>>71803071
>>71803121
>>71803286
I don't care if they're "just exercises", it's beautiful to me.

These threads are such autistic shitholes.

>>71803909
Why are you here then?

filo nuovo

>>71804066

>>71804078
Being cynical solidifies a feeling of superiority.

>>71804195
Whut.