/classical/: Purging Previous Prejudices edition

>>71734740
Just listen to Der Ring, in one sitting preferably

>>71734758
But that's silly anon, it's one of the last things he wrote and the ring festivals would take multiple days to perform

>>71734740
>no pasta
Fucking retard.

>>71734901
I like italians

Monteverdi is bretty good

>>71735122
Italian music died with Boccherini

Make a new thread with the links

>General Folder #1. Renaissance up to 20th century/modern classical. Also contains a folder of live recordings/recitals by some outstanding performers.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A
>General Folder #2. Mostly Romantic up to 20th century/modern, but also includes recordings of music by Bach, Mozart and others
https://mega.co.nz/#F!lIh3GRpY!piUs-QdhZACFt2hGtX39Rw
>General Folder #3. Mostly 20th century/modern with other assorted bits and pieces
https://mega.co.nz/#F!Y8pXlJ7L!RzSeyGemu6QdvYzlfKs67w
>General Folder #4. Renaissance up to early/mid-20th century. Also contains a folder of Scarlatti sonate and another live recording/recital folder.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!kMpkFSzL!diCUavpSn9B-pr-MfKnKdA
>General Folder #5. Renaissance up to late 19th century
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ekBFiCLD!spgz8Ij5G0SRH2JjXpnjLg
>General Folder #6. Very eclectic mix
https://mega.co.nz/#F!O8pj1ZiL!mAfQOneAAMlDlrgkqvzfEg
>Renaissance Folder #1. Mass settings
https://mega.co.nz/#F!ygImCRjS!1C9L77tCcZGQRF6UVXa-dA
>Renaissance Folder #2. Motets and madrigals (plus Leiden choirbooks)
https://mega.co.nz/#F!il5yBShJ!WPT0v8GwCAFdOaTYOLDA1g
>Debussy. There is an accompanying chart, available on request*.
https://mega.co.nz/#F!DdJWUBBK!BeGdGaiAqdLy9SBZjCHjCw
>Opera Folder. Contains recorded video productions of about 10 well-known operas, with a bias towards late Romantic
https://mega.co.nz/#F!4EVlnJrB!PRjPFC0vB2UT1vrBHAlHlw

>Random assortment of books on music theory and composition, music history etc.
https://mega.nz/#F!HsAVXT5C!AoFKwCXr4PJnrNg5KzDJjw

(*) -- this is a lie. None of us has the chart anymore.

>>71735196
Monteverdi is before Boccherini faggot

>>71735558
Sorry last time I went on /classical/ this rule didnt exist

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>>71731535
>please recommend me something similar to Ludovico Einaudi's stuff?
>he's listening to minimalist dross
oh wait
>Something I could listen to while working?
>he plays music as white noise in the background

KILL YOURSELF PHILISTINE!

first let me start by saying I am a metal head of note; i love Irom maiden, megadeth and such. so on that note this symphony is so beautiful and epic that it struck the same cord within me as my metal music. the planet symp. translated what is so huge and unattainable as the planets in our solar system into a real and fitting peice of music. the different what i call song in the symp. follow along closely to greek Mythology. the peice titled "mars" follows along a strong epic and powerful mood; a war-like feeling (Mars being the ancient greek god of war). and the peice "venus" follows a calming, smooth, peaceful mood (venus being the goddess of peace and beauty). this sypm. is turn of the 19\20 century but one can hear its infulence (personally) in many modern symphonies. for example; great movie score composer Hans Zimmer used very and uncanny composition similar to the "planet Symphony" in the music to the movie "Gladiator", particulary in the peice titled "the Battle" which closly, in-part, does resemble "Mars: the God of war" in the planet symp. I am not accusing Hans Zimmer of Plagiarism, i Applaud him. for is that not what music is about; raising the creative bar for oneself and all others. if you buy only one classical CD but this one... you will not be dissapointed; I wasn't. so on conclusion i find Gustav Holtz Planet Symphony to be a special and beautiful experience...so buy it. i would also like to recomend to you to buy the "Gladiator" soundtrack and see the 2 together for yourself. thank you

>>71736233

& John Williams clearly knocked of Holst for 'Star Wars'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

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>>71736233
> I am not accusing Hans Zimmer of Plagiarism
you should, he's a hack.
>film score composers
pic related

>>71736233
Please be trolling.

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Way to fuck up the OP with your personal requests faggot. But anyway, if you want to listen to Wagner's operas in a studious way, just go for publication order, as with anything. If instead you're looking to skip the filler, the crème de la crème is made up of, for the early era
>Der fliegende Holländer
>Lohengrin
and every single one (no exceptions) of his 'mature' (starting from the 1850s) works, from Das Rheingold through Parsifal.

Depending on what in these works appeals to you, you might also enjoy Rienzi and Tannhäuser und der Sängerkrieg auf dem Wartburg.
Anyone looking for a general introduction to Wagner's music is best advised to start with something like Siegfried Idyll, the overtures of his early operas (the 'mature' works are a lot more focused on he drama, so they're not as front-stacked) and the symphonic suite from Der Ring des Nibelungen, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HujjNQPv2U

>>71736626
In terms of performances, the big 3 to look for are Solti (unmatched for Der Ring), Knappertsbusch and Furtwängler.

Where do I start /classical/

Have an underrated pearl -- Rameau, Les fêtes d'Hébé (opéra-ballet): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_RIE9vKBeg
This thing is stacked with infectious, energetic melodies that you can (and should) dance to. Put some tights on and let it blast through the room. Bonus points if you do it in front of a mirror.

>>71736752
That depends. Where are you now? What sort of music do you usually listen to?

>>71736293
It's pretty obvious that that is a youtube comment dredged up from somewhere

>>71736656
>Solti
>unmatched
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Also Rienzi is very boring

>>71736809
>Rienzi is very boring
It's Wagner's worst opera, honestly. 'Tis why I put it in the filler basket. The overture is its best part.

>>71736799
I listen to ambient/ experimental electronic music and just slower music in general but I want to properly explore classical.

>>71736250
And Chopin's Funebre
but JW has been pretty clear about all of that and The Imperial March really is it's own piece, especially harmonically.

>>71736829
Maybe you should start with Richard Strauss (Eine Alpensinfonie), Gustav Mahler (1st, 2nd and 9th symphonies), or Anton Bruckner (7th, 8th and 9th symphonies) then. A big draw-in with them is that they create enormous soundscapes that are very satisfying to immerse yourself into (the musical development is slow and deliberate, spacious, and the orchestral textures are very rich).

>>71736893
This is a very good recording of the Alpensinfonie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-879_b1sdTE
For Bruckner I recommend recordings of Celibidache's live performances.
For Mahler I recommend Pretre, Abbado and Giulini.

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>>71734740
Stop listening to Wagner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dG-NUaq2o4

Lucia di Lammermoor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFH0wLG77m4

>>71736233

Is this a new copypasta?

Or just autism

10/10 post either way

>>71736752

O fortuna

>>71736626
Thanks kngr

>>71736829
Start with some ambient / experimental electronic classical then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd-Kyk0d3fE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwtAMGXyTI4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJIXobO94Jo

>>71735828
>Monteverdi is before Boccherini faggot
No shit fucking retard.
>doesn't know it's common sense to include the pasta or links in the OP
Fucking neck yourself, newshit

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Carl Nielsen's Symphony no. 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbTBrdB-1KM

>>71737770
One would assume that an ambientfag who's into experimental shit is already familiar with the pioneers of the style.
While we're at it though, why not post some Schaeffer as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJq3jItducg

Are there any other notable composers who took great inspiration from local folk music than Bartok, Tveitt and Grieg?

>tfw there is literally NO good american composer

What's the problem with that dystopic wasteland? How can a nation of 300milion people be so void of art?

>>71738051
Smetana
Stravinsky

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>>71738051
Enescu and Rimsky-Korsakov.

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>>71738088
Both Knut Hamsun and Jean Baudrillard have written books about this. Jung also wrote some articles on it, but I think he missed the mark a bit (claiming it was negroization) when I believe it has more to do with a pseudomorphosis derived from growing on foreign soil with foreign plants (see Goethe, Spengler)

Hindemith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3BRFYc9LOw

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>>71738088
>>71738117
It's been over 300 years since anglos have produced any composer of note. You can't expect art to come out of a nation of shopkeepers. Those islands are a literal cancer on the face of Europe.

>>71734740
Little Bach by Hector Town-Wolf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-XGAWjwj-c

>>71738165
This is also very true, a nation of bureaucrats and merchants does not good art make. This tendency also destroyed french music (following the revolution, really one of the bourgeoisie merchant) and later on german music (Nazi Germany, really marked the death of aesthetics in general)

>>71738117
>>71738165

Just because those nations did not produce as many classical composers does not mean they were incapable of producing art. Classical music has historically always been a continental european thing.

>>71737026
t. Jew

Is the business of the professional orchestra dying? I think modern orchestra management and snobby musicians are to blame.

>>71738093
>>71738109

Thank you, will look into.

>>71738249
>Is the business of the professional orchestra dying?
It's shrinking. Most successful orchestras live on playing old (XVIII-XIX) music. Snobby, pretentious musicians are definitely part of the equation. There isn't any new music with wide appeal (something that is sophisticated but also enchanting). Modern music is ghettoised. A sandbox of niches. Plus, there's also competition from synths and shit. We're circling the drain at this point.

>>71738288
Also David Monrad Johansen, Johan Svendsen and maybe even Rautavaara.

Look to countries with strong nationalist currents in the 19th and 20th century. Norway and Finland both had this in opposition to Danish and Swedish europeanism.

>>71738316
>There isn't any new music with wide appeal (something that is sophisticated but also enchanting).

Wait a few years and I'll give you that music.

>>71738347
Post what you have right now.

>>71736233
12/10

>>71738051
vaughan williams and frederick delius aswell i think

>>71738362
It's too early to do it. I'll follow the advices of my favourite composers and wait it out until I'll be 100% sure of my craft. I'm already sure that my head is in the right place.

Give me some time and I'll save this philistine world woth music so magnificent, insightful and sophisticated that it will be simply impossible to resist it, wether you are a housewife or a old academic composer.

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>>71738347
lol, (I doubt you'll make it.)
I've mentioned this before but I don't really mind the situation all that much. I'm a decadent fellow.

>>71736626
>>71738003
Both mine, for example. Ruins are fun too, be they ruins due to age, or born that way. I'm chronically curious and have a very deep pool to swim in regardless.

Good luck to you though. I really mean it. I hope you don't crash and burn out too hard.

>>71738316
When will it die? Orchestra and classical music in general has been surviving off of the students that try to enter the field. What will happen when students just completely stop studying classical music?

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>>71738445

>>71738445
I want to believe

Please save us all from this degenerate ugly hellscape anon.

>>71738526
At the rate this is going, within 2 or so generations even the academic life support system will be completely dead. ~50 years? I'm pessimistic but who really knows...

>>71737944
>newshit
I browsed /classical/ in 2013

>>>/r/music

>>71738117
America's music is in its folk songs

Melville is enough to prove that Americans have a feel for fine art

>>71738117
What book by Baudrillard?

>>71738682

>America's music is in its folk songs

This is what I was trying to say with >>71738217
The american folk music tradition is incredibly dense and excuse me for using this term, diverse.

>>71738724
This is /classical/ not /folk/.

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>>71738873

Just responding to the claim that America has "no good composers".

>>71738895
You didn't though.

>>71738906

Just ADDING to the response that america has no good composers then, jesus.

>>71738088
>tfw there is literally NO good american composer
No this is plain wrong, and stop having opinion on subjects you have no idea about and don't care for.

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>>71738895
>>71738940
I was really only looking for an excuse to bump the thread. This discussion bores me.

Have some American classical music instead, from modernist Jonny Come Lately #231: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8MzNWO57f4 (It's shit, honestly. A bag of old tricks used in uninspired ways.)
And speaking of 231, an old classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky5N-qc8nXI (I like this quite a lot. It has aged well. Maybe it's the programmatic fastening that's been holding it tight?)

>>71738117
>Hamsun Baudrillard Jung
a nazi and two memers
nice trio
>growing on foreign soil
North American North-East is perhaps the most European-looking part of non-European world

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Ok, let's see if we can resuscitate the thread.

>>71739016
>A bag of old tricks used in uninspired ways
This attitude, I admit, is upstream from the current sordid situation. I'm an insatiably curious elitist. It is the case with any musical language I become familiar with: I hunt for exemplary uses of that toolset like a bloodthirsty hound, until I zone in on the makings of a pièce de résistance, a corpus of masterpieces, the projection of the form of beauty onto that language, or whatever it is that you want to call the tip of the pyramid.
And then I lose interest and look for some other virgin patch of forest where I can begin the hunt anew. Slash and burn musical agriculture. Why listen to random Baroque composer X when Bach is better than any of them? Why bother writing in the Baroque tradition when it has already reached its finality in his oeuvre? I can't help myself. Most people who are into classical music nowadays fall into two broad categories: rabid gluttons like me (this includes most contemporary composers) and fogeys. Thing is, we're too busy fumbling in the dark, while they're too busy fawning over the past. This is how classical music has been grinding to a halt for several decades.

The way I see it, classical music is dying but it's all part of a natural cycle.

>>71739768
>animeposter posts what might very well be the worst post /classical/ has ever seen
Par for the course.

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Xenakis,
Metastaseis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMJPb9qOC_E
Kottos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV7Sj3RRTlw

>>71739981
k

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>enter thread
>rampant animeposting
>they have shit taste
>mfw
Graupner (aka the least bog German)
https://youtu.be/7Ui598mTAAs

Petzold

>>71734740
>tfw want to learn the cello but can't find any cello teachers near me

Even if it's cookie cutter suzuki, I need a strong basis before I learn independent. fuuck

what online resources can I use?

>>71740809
Kahn academy

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TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
TOOT TOOT TOOT
bambambam bam baaaaa BAM BAM BAAAAAM
TOOOT NINININI BAM BAM
BARABAM BAM
TOOOOOOOT

>>71734740
Look at Wagner. Literal neckbeard, egomaniac nut and all around ugly motherfucker.

That guy had a shit ton of mistresses and wouldn't stop having affairs; how the fuck did he find a woman willing to bang him?

>>71740835
funny man

>>71740951
>strong jaw
>high projecting zygos
>prominent brow ridge
>wide and long nose
>deep set nasal rose
>large skull volume
>probably had a large body frame too
He has several characteristics which makes him very reproductively fit. Add being a famous artist and public figure on top of that and slaying becomes easy as hell.

>>71740951

t. elliot rodger

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>>71740723
Whatever floats you boat friend.

Saint-Saëns, Organ Symphony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8B3Xgl9A9U

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>>71741111
Let's look at an actual photo instead

>Weak as fuck jaw with double chins
>Inferior eyebrows
>Brick looking nose
>Top of his head was weirdly wide compared to his jaw
>Was only 1.66m tall

>>71741183

>why do succesful alpha males get to fuck women and i don't waaaaaah

>>71741213
>Assuming I was bitching about not getting sex

>>71741183
He doesn't have a weak jaw though. He's just old and saggy. A bulldog esque fighters nose like his is highly dimorphic and thus attractive, he still has wide projecting zygos and a strong brow, also has positive canthal tilt. Large skull volume is also a good thing, not a bad thing.

Despite the fact that he was short, I bet he had a very robust and large frame. Also noticing in this photo that he has a projecting maxilla and short philtrum, which combined with his projecting zygos and wide jaw gives him a higher than average facial width.

The problem is that we're used to seeing him as an old man, but the fact is that he is a very robust, highly dimorphic and well-developed individual and there's no doubt he would be very attractive, especially as a younger man.

>>71741288
Some people live outside the R9K paranoia sphere, I'm one of them

I'm also gay as fuck

Liszt is a fucking sex bomb, just like everyone says, but I just couldn't understand why anyone would fuck Wagner

Graun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGohwCKgG8A

>>71741331
> I just couldn't understand why anyone would fuck Wagner
Yes, because you're a fucking faggot.

>>71741359
Listen anon, I know how to appreciate the beauty of the male body

>>71741331
Shockingly enough, women have different taste than faggots, mainly because their attraction is rooted in hundreds of thousands of years of evolution and not mental illness like yours.

>>71741331

>but I just couldn't understand why anyone would fuck Wagner

Women and fags see different things in men, I guess.

Locateli
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUtEUrOB_J4
Pine is underrated af desu

>>71741442
I'm not white knighting at all. It's the truth. The size of your bank account can turn a woman on for example. All this has nothing to do with /classical/ anymore though, so shove it already.

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>some fag has to make his sexuality the center of attention yet again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDmycfIweI
post microtonal works better than king gizzard

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>>71741548
Since we're at it, here's another American composer, Harry Partch (not Ives, of course, Ives' microtonal compositions are incompetent rummage): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GglpEGSXpXo

>>71741720
A friend told me about a piece by Partch that was something like a set of variations on America the Beautiful that utilized microtones awhile ago, but I can't find any info on it. Does anyone know what it's called or if it's even by Partch at all? Pretty sure it wasn't Ives.

Is there a Ravel mega like the Debussy one we have?

>>71741801
I am not aware of any Partch composition based on America the Beautiful. Ives did write a polytonal composition based on "God Save the Queen" which he called Variations on America (because some American patriotic song shares the same melody. or something). My guess is that your friend is/was confused.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs0VjhNWqn8

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Romanesca
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8N9jFdwZpA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYvV4CIAow
Passomezzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uljhNmG8V5M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnQGz-Wv-nw

>>71741548
https://soundcloud.com/overtoneshock/demanding-two-faces-17-edo

>>71741982
pretty sure it wasn't that one though because I remember him specifically mentioning microtones

maybe it was a different composer

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For my /classical/-boys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix1runTJLMo
Fourth Movement incoming

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>>71742241
Maybe you should ask you friend for more info then anon. I like some of Partch's music but this sort of search is beyond my autism. Plus, I'm actually an European supremacist. I've been posting a couple of American composers only because the thread went in that direction.

More Partch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSATRV-2rRs

>>71742924
>Fourth Movement incoming
You mean the 9th shittiest movement? I'm with Verdi on this one:
>"marvelous in its first three movements, very badly set in the last. No one will ever surpass the sublimity of the first movement, but it will be an easy task to write as badly for voices as is done in the last movement."

>>71742924
>some old bass cracking all over the place on the high Fs
wew

What's /classical/'s opinion on Davide Amadio?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyXvs3GL4to

>>71742924
>fat soprano
DROPPED

>>71743154
Beyond the choral parts, another thing that I don't like about the 4th movement is how poorly the thematic recapitulations from the previous 3 movements are integrated into it. I expect that kind of dodgy work in places from a modernist like Messiaen who's fiddling with new aspects of tonality, but those bars are very jarring in a work that is otherwise so formally clean.

You know you've asked yourself this question before, the elephant in the room:
Why didn't the 20th or 21st century have either a Bach, a Mozart or a Schubert?

Pezel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kemIl3GsBOw

Pretzel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA8PyXeeXiA

>>71739768
Don't you think that tonal music has still countless unexplored sonorities, moods and forms of excellence?
You can take any teenager with a guitar, ask him not to listen to other people music, teach him the basics of music theory, leave him alone for a year, come back and find out that he has developed a new personal style that, even in its technical limitations and theoretical naiveties, can't be related with any of the great masters of our canons.

Don't you think that a composer can still magnify these unexplored styles, musical ideas/fixations and technical sophistication, just like from meneuts in galant style you get to Mozart?

My problem with contemporary music is that not only novelty is placed above every other possible value, what bothers me is that the other values are completely discarded and loathed. The zeitgeist tells us that, for example, beauty is not relevant anymore, and in fact it should be despised, even if you are able to reach it through unexplored means.
The challenge of this century, imho, will be the one of reassessing the collective judgement of composers while trying not to lose the importance we give to innovation in the process. There is still a way to be radical and tonal.

Pez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsDxg4ftKbg

Petz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPzl9x5CfK8

>>71743100
Ah, come on, that's the judgement of a technician.
Of course Verdi thought that: he spent his entire life writing for voices, achieving a mastery that Beethoven could not have ever mastered without devoting most of his time writing operas.

The choral may not be the most technically proficient choral ever written, but it is still a work of genius. Only a virtuoso such as Verdi could find them unappealing.

Dretzel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBBX8Xo1YWU

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>>71743374
Here's my answer --

Because neither of those 3 are innovators. They are perfecters. They're Masters, not Pioneers. After Wagner, the cultural milieu became such that phase changes were revered, while incremental improvement, working within a particular paradigm so as to refine it, was ignored (if not disdained). The few that still cared for established paradigms retreated into uncritical conservatism (fogeyism: writing music in the old tradition so as to preserve it, not refine it e.g. neo-classicism, neo-romanticism) in reaction to that. See this previous post for a more micro view
>>71739768

>>71743810
Yep, I just read >>71739768
Interesting.
Any reading material you'd recommend?

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This thread is proof American composers are underrated.

Ives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UZq09F9RR4

>>71738873
Moon Dog

Jiranek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJKWzPyC9Rg

need suggestions for Russian chamber music / smaller choral works.
I've been listening to Arensky piano trios, Borodin string quartets, and some Gliere cello/piano duets.
also, could anyone tell me what sets late Russian romanticism apart? I can't describe the techniques that make me like it so much.

>>71743896
wonder what happened to taxes

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>>71744072

>>71743866
>Any reading material you'd recommend?

Nothing specifically about music. Art history departments are notoriously incompetent. They're too focused on compiling factoids and descriptive, (as opposed to explicative or explanatory) assessments of art and artists (probably because they're filled by unintelligent people).

I'd recommend instead that you look into the work of Paul Feyerabend and Alisdair MacIntyre. I merely applied the general ideas I found in their thought to the particular case of the development of music over the last 200 years. You see similar patterns in the wider cultural sphere.

>>71744072
>complaining about 2d on an Indochinese sock puppet newsletter
kys
>>71744112
He probably drank himself to death.

>>71744112
probably the same guy who keeps fanboying carter

>>71741720
>of course, Ives' microtonal compositions are incompetent rummage

As opposed to Partch? Get fucked.

>>71743624
Yes, I agree that incremental improvement is possible. it's just not as exciting as plunging into the abyss in search of the totally alien.

>>71744252
Yes, Ives' microtonal experiments are complete failures and he never really explored microtonality in any intensive way after those first attempts (he only wrote like, what, two pieces that use microtones?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEZXjW_s0Qs

6.39 to 7.20.

That almost unison at 7.07 always break me. Any similar work? Mind that I dont expect to get a fugue.

>>71742118
Those are some cool dances Baroquefag. You can't dance them alone though. Do you use your broom or what? I usually dance with my pillow.

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>>71744906
I rather play the instruments than dance desu

>>71745087
>not conducting

>>71745119
>conducting a small baroque dance

>>71745133
>not conducting all the music you listen to, from piano music to large orchestras

Are you even trying? Print that score and start conducting.

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>>71745170
Y-yes daddy

Fuck Brahms and his oversized hands
I'll drop him forever from my repertoire. Fuck him.
FUCK
HIM

>>71745087
>Friedrich der Große
Are you starting to come around to the truth that the woodwinds are the kings of any orchestra? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrRX8Bnah5s

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>Zelenka
>Biber
>Smetana
>Dvorak
>Janacek
>Martinu
>Haas
How can one country be so based?

>>71745671
>>Zelenka
shit
>>Biber
overrated
>>Smetana
overrated
>>Dvorak
ok
>>Janacek
ok
>>Martinu
meh
>>Haas
shit

fuck off poly

>>71745725
>Zelenka
>shit
>Martinu
>meh
>not shit
kys

>>71745747
>listening to any baroque compsoer besides abch
whats the point? honestly? nobody does it better than him

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>>71745775
Amen.

BWV 54 --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq6ttqZwNjw

>>71745671
You missed:
>Jiranek
>Reichenauer
>Weichlein
>>71745775
t. autist

>>71745671
them, poland and russia are the only slav countries that matter for classical music

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>>71745775
>he fell for the Bach meme

fact: only virgins, weeaboos, autists, and autist weeaboo virgins like or care about bach

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post your favorite bach pieces everyone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7obnfrlP0s

>>71745960
True, as far as I know

>>71746019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I1TFlKaVtA

best Bach's contrapunctus reporting in.

>>71745671
recommend me some haas?

>>71745960
>>71745960
fact: you are a philistine and a faggot, which means you should gtfo ASAP

>>71745671
Biber and Haas are German, not Czech.
>>71745879
Reichenauer and Weichlein are likewise German, not Czech.

>>71746019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN9llRhRU-s

i want to cum on hilary hahns face

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>>71746019
BWV 244:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc3bS2E7GME

>>71746088
I want Giuliano Carmignola to cum on my face

>>71746204
I want Jake Arditti to cum on mine.

>>71746300
I want to eat out Philippe Jaroussky's butthole while Carmignola pumps me full of his virtuososperm

>>71746204
>>71746300
>>71746450
Stop

>>71746450
>>71746300
>>71746204
homos

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La damoiselle élue --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF4Aa7poreE

>>71746664
>>71746714
You could've simply ignored the faggots.

>>71737801
This was an interesting interview. Thank you for posting. I almost missed it though. Next time you post something, please add a description.

Is there any real point to my spending hours listening to several performances of der Hölle Rache on youtube if I can't even identify a chord by ear?
I like this one though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6c9x1pMQlk

>>71747265
How do you mean? You can't hear any difference between one chord and the next? Or that you can't tell which chord is which?

What a silly thing to ask anyway.

>>71737801
>stravinsky composed on the piano

Ew.

>>71747358
He's probably saying that he never did ear training and can't tell really what's happening when harmonically and melodically when listening to music.

>>71747265
Of course.
Someone who has a trained ear, or even better, a formally trained musician will appreciate this music way more than you do but still, we're talking about Mozart.
I'd say that it's worth listening to it because at the very least you will memorize it, which is the closest you can do when it comes to music appreciation.

To enhance your appreciation for music my advice is to air conduct it, maybe with a pencil instead of a baton. It helps memorizing what you're listening to, and after a while you'll go on a almost meditative state in which you will be in complete synchrony with the music.

That said, since it interests you so much: train your ear. It's not that hard, it takes just a hour a day for a year to be kinda good at recognizing tones, two or three to become proficient at it.
The first months of training will be tedious, since you will still struggle to identify even the simplest melody, but after that training will become fun, since you will be able to transcribe your favourite music.

>>71747358
I mean I hear the iis the Vs and the Is but everything else is nonsense. I can't even tell if the key changes. Have I been listening to too much jazz?

>>71746088
She's getting older and not so qt anymore. Find a better waifu

>>71747479
You suffer from amusia. If this hasn't always been the case you should see a doctor as soon as possible. You might have suffered brain damage.

>>71747458
No, I think he's saying, in so many words, that he's tone deaf. Poor guy didn't notice it until now because he had been listening primarily to jazz (which is mainly about rhythm).

Let's do a test. How many (distinct) chords do you hear in the first 15 seconds of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icFRHJ9VZaw

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What did Beethoven mean by this?

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>>71748140
And this?

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>>71747265
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6c9x1pMQlk
That was... bloody awful. She is constantly off-pitch. Kim will never make it in the opera world.

>>71738316
>There isn't any new music with wide appeal (something that is sophisticated but also enchanting)
Not true at all. Go to more concerts, discover more contemporary composers.

>>71745671
Also these guys: (not sure how many of these links still work - from my old pastebin)

Nelhýbel - Symphonic Movement, Trittico, Trio for Brass, Festivo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgq21pI0tyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uUWA3aN_BA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDtiIb-o25Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z5wRjFvdUY
Kabeláč - Preludes, Mystery of Time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOze35rWRFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kxcD0mU9jo
Fibich - Symphony No.2, Missa Brevis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvopBDj4I9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03nggDgzFBw
Novák - In the Tatras, Sonata Eroica
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItaiZ8NUx8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxF9YHdv6Wg
Dussek - Piano Concertos, Sonatas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMbWIWtghtU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6BAapBkyEg
Tomášek - Requiem in C-minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVGPTquV5Oo

Post soothing, relaxing music.

Bach's Pastorale
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmdqfxidqM

>>71748419
all of those composers suck poly

>>71748172
Look at her eyes bugging out when she tries to hit those higher notes. In that cold weather and with that tiny asian nose she's still giving an A+ effort. I have to give her at least 1 thumb up.

>>71747857
I think that's a I6-V6-I then there's a straight V in the 3rd bar and between those a bunch of jazzy 7 chords that I can't make out distinctly because he's arpeggiating them and blending them together to create a turnaround. What does this have to do with asian sopranos?

>>71748543
>nose being important part of the singing apparatus
???

>>71748590
Isn't airflow an essential part of most instruments that you aren't physically smacking?

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>>71748540
How are you going to convince him of that when he's is the quintessence of contemporary poptimist trash?

>>71748172
Poor guys in the strings section are even trying to adjust their playing to match hers but she botches it even harder. And then her voice breaks. This is sad. Props to her for sticking it out until the end. I thing she had a bad start and never managed to readjust. Or maybe she sucks. She seems to be a third rate singer in musicals and stuff.

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>not listening to wagner with your fit natsoc gf

>>71748435
https://youtu.be/V1PzMs74-xg

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>>71748733
>hahha dude hitler was so cool (even tho he destroyed germany) wanguh is based!!!1

>not playing accompanying piano practicing with your third rate soprano asian gf

>>71748620
The nose really doesn't get involved in singing at all. Breathing is done through the mouth and all the breath coming out should go through the mouth, otherwise it's going to waste making a nasal sound as it goes through your nose instead of being used to actually create the singing sound

>>71748733
>listening to music for political reasons / as a badge of tribal identification, not for its own sake
I want /pol/ and /leftypol/ to leave.

>>71748796
So they aren't circularly breathing to provide a constant flow of air needed to perform those 16th notes?

>>71748787
Honestly this guy is terrifying

>>71748859
>circularly breathing
How do you do this? The only means of inhaling/exhaling is contracting the lungs; your nose doesnt have its own pump

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>>71748767
A full recording of this sonata would be appreciated.

>>71748859
What? Of course not.

>>71748859
No, that's just one exhalation with the definition between notes being created by good diaphragm control. There's not really anything to be gained from circular breathing since vocal music really never requires it (and I think it's almost impossible when singing anyway, since you're using your mouth in a different way to brass/wind players)
>>71748917
It's more a case of storing air in your mouth and using the cheek muscles to force it out while you breath in through your nose, it's not actually breathing in/out at the same time

>>71746019
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQwQSWTw71U

>>71748997
>It's more a case of storing air in your mouth and using the cheek muscles to force it out while you breath in through your nose, it's not actually breathing in/out at the same time
That's genius, how have I never thought of that

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>>71748933
No luck. Not even on rutracker.

>>71748917
You form an air pocket in your mouth which you exhale by contracting your cheeks while simultaneously breathing air in through your nose. This technique doesn't work with singing at all (it breaks your voice -- try singing while you inhale). It's used by wind and brass players, since they don't use their vocal chords to play their toys.

I want the weebs to fuck off

>>71748435
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEs-1vLwBYU

Post fugues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9911k7Wrw4

>>71749035
Wait, is that your youtube channel?

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>Messiaen at Lili Boulanger's memorial service

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>>71749202
https://youtu.be/kyy38weNZuc

>>71749202
That theme is taken from the Art of Fugue. Iirc it shows up for the first time in the Contrapunctus 3

>>71748787
Wagner *is* based though.

Why does it seem like music is going in circles? Have previous composers already planted their seed on the fecund ground and now its really meaningless to be a distinguished composer anymore? What can be done about this, if anything?

>>71749430
microtonal jazz-noise.

>>71749430
atonal minuets

>>71749562
honestly I think microtones have potential but nobody is doing anything with them but wanking.
I think maybe the problem is how ecclectic modern culture is. Its like anything new will just sound like the interpolation of preexisting elements and come across as a facsimile. I know Vaporwave is a meme but I think it brought up a great concept of defining music in a multimedia context. Chopped and Screwed 80s synthpop can sound spooky if you imagine it in the context of a capitalist dystopia.

>>71749430
The baroque, classical and romantic period had somewhat strict melodic and harmonic conventions. Beethoven was excelling while using these donventions, trascending them but it's still a style nonetheless.
The answer is to search for a new convention, based on differenr theoric principles. Think about the music Ravel was writing when serialism was already the new academical standard.
That music has nothing to share with its traditions, while still using the same theoric tools that hos predecessors were using.
He should be taken as an example on how to be conservative (compared to the serialists and dadaists) while still being radical (compared to thr neoclassicals).

It's a road that requires actual talent and a sophistication that is nowhere to be found in this musical landscape.

>>71746053
String quartets, like you would any other composer

Are there any other dodecaphonic ear worms?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7JVmrNwdh0

>>71750154
that's not a tone row

>>71736796
Just started listening to this! It's awesome. Thanks for posting :D

>>71736796
>Put some tights on and let it blast through the room. Bonus points if you do it in front of a mirror.
that's gay

>>71736796
Les Boreades is also quite good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2Pmnc-4C94
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hueIEN_UIJw
Hippolyte et Arcie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPw24UZZMU
Marais's Alcione is a good exampole of the Lullian style
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W--OjtoAV0w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDpdRFs0uRo

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>>71750678
This guy is the biggest asshole ever

It certainly doesn't help that he's gay. Well except for the dilation of course :^)

Benda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZvuuG_kFbc

Give me something that's completely "out there," something fascinatingly irregular, almost inhumane - but purging emotions.

>>71752070
Rebel le cahos

>>71752070
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhYBBe90yJo
Schnittke was almost dead at this point

Which one of you Mozart fagbois got that terrible fugue of his taken down from youtube. I can't shitpost like this.

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>>71752196
Mozart or Chopin?

>>71752219
there was some fugue on youtube with a picture of abstract art evoking a sense of "oh this is so ambitious and avant garde" but it was really just a poorly composed early work.

>>71752196
>terrible fugue
all Mozart fugues are better than any Bach ones

>>71752285
Mozart didn't compose fugues early on

>>71752326
well it was pantsu on head. I don't even dislike Mozart but I can't tell you how bad my rabid australian genes are impelling me to find the video and then post a meme arrow containing the text "hardly representative of his work"

>>71752358
An idiot?

>>71752380
Yes I am an idiot. That hardly seems germane to the issue at hand however.

>>71752196
>>71752219
>>71752285
>>71752302
>>71752326
>>71752358
>>71752380
>>71752421

Okay nevermind I found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJXCnWt38uk

The other day I had a dream where Beethoven came back to life and he was invited to China

>>71752434
don't forget to visit local mental institution

Bach was deaf and Motzart could play the piano better than any1 else on the planet at age 5.
both are not from this earth

apologies i meant Beethoven was deaf

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>>71752752
but you could still say that Bach was from the wrong planet

So in twelve tone composition I understand that all the notes must sound before starting over but is it expected that this be the case for any random segment of the piece?

>>71736626
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=891JUSQplzU I just listened to most of this and you can literally hear people coughing in the recording

made me start to think, when if ever did classical music get a studio recording?
im not a classical guy so dont fuck me in the ass

>>71753980
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reO4v3dTpZY

>>71753857
>all the notes must sound before starting over
that's a common misconception.

>>71754042
Wow I've never appreciated Wagner like this before, what are some modern recordings worth getting?

>>71754196
Arguably Wagner is the composer where old meme recordings reign king. As far as modern conductors go, Janowski is probably the best. Haenchen is good too. Problem is that whilst the conducting is great, the singers aren't as good as the golden-era GOATS

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>>71752302
Get a load of this moron.

>>71734740
Anyone have 'Liszt: L'uvre pour Piano / The Piano Works by France Clidat' handy?

Or Liszt's Transcendental Etudes S.139? Greatly appreciated.

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>mfw /classical/ is now weeb turf

Perfect occasion for a waltz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmCnQDUSO4I

Parmegiani: De Natura Sonorum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_JHjUFfOs8

Petzl Pod 9000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQLkaji0SJ4

Could you say the conductor is playing the orchestra as if it was an instrument?

>>71756378
To an extent, yes

>>71756378
Nope. Most of the work a conductor does happens before the recital, during the practice sessions.

>>71756440
But even then, you could equate it to the deliberate practice of musicians - practicing the songs they'll play before they come on stage. Conductors just have an unique privilege of having semi-autonomous instruments.

>>71756440
Nope. Most of the work a performer does happens before the recital, during the practice sessions.

>>71756455
You're playing word games / waxing poetic. The relationship between the conductor and the orchestra is not at all like that between a player and their instrument.

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did somebody say weeb turf :))) :))

>>71756486
Why not? This is exactly why I'm here. Where's the difference?

>>71749698
It's amazing how upon hearing and seeing vaporwave for the first time, thousands of people instantly got what it was about. It just instantly clicked with all of them, like some sort of psyop. Weird to think that some slowed down and screwed up synthpop made by some girl could have such impact.

>>71756459
Oh look, another cretin arguing semantics. During the performance, the conductor is largely superfluous. A performer isn't. No performer = no music.

>>71749698
>>71756506
fuck off

>>71756504
The only degree of control a conductor has during an actual performance is tempo and cuing. He's a human metronome. The bulk of a conductor's influence is settled before the performance. That's where all the interpretative decisions are taken: which phrase to emphasise, which section, how to play certain bars etc. That's when the conductor together with the players lays down a guideline for the performance. After that his work is done.

A performers work is not done after practice. He also has to perform. A conductor doesn't necessarily have to.

>>71756509
No instrument = no music. So the performers are redundant as well.

In both the instance of the conductor and the performer, they are conveying their artistic interpretation of the work via an intermediary. For the conductor, the intermediary is more complex but the actual "communication" going on isn't vastly different.

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Brahms op. 1 and 2 sonatas are goat

>>71756656
If an orchestra would be including automatic/robotic instruments that play themselves, your analogy would be valid. Since we're talking about human ensembles, you just come across as an ignoramus. You haven't ever conducted anything, that much is certain.

>>71756656
The only one with an actual artistic vision in this chain is the composer. Everyone else is fiddling with someone else's formula, within the boundaries set by that formula. If the performance were improvised and the improvisation were led by the conductor, you might have the figment of a point on your hand.

t. an actual music director

>>71757998
>>71757921
>listening to music being played and not just reading the score and imagining it all in your head
You used to get laughed out of /classical/ for less

>>71740809
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>71757998
>the only one with an actual artistic vision in this chain is the composer
So what's the difference between the fiddling done by the conductor and the fiddling done by the instrumentalists? They both become interpreters of someone else's creative vision, so you place the instrumentalists and conductor on an equal footing. How can you then argue that there is a material difference between the instrumentalist and his instrument and the conductor and his?

If you take the view that the composer is the supreme being in the equation, then the instrumentalists/conductor end up occupying same position as obfuscators of the composer's artistic vision. His conception of it and its transmission to the "audience" will be divergent because the performers will almost certainly have a conception of the work which is not identical to that envisioned by the composer (ignoring situations where the conductor is the composer or performer which is another question altogether and probably even more complex).

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>>71758734
<This post man.
I take it you just wanted to bump the thread? I'd really like to think that. Your hair splitting skillz are 10/10 tho.

>>71757921
>>71757921
It's a binary vs analog situation. The instruments are either (broadly speaking) playing in accordance with the interpretative wishes of the instrumentalists insofar as they have the ability to communicate it or they are not playing at all.
The conductor has a situation where his "instruments" may match his interpretative wishes perfectly at some points and imperfectly (or not at all) at others. It then gets a bit more complex. In an "ideal" world where are conductor had infinite rehearsal time and could instruct every single instrumentalist on the interpretation of every single note they play, would the individual players have an obligation to set aside their own creative ego since they are part of an ensemble and "subject" to someone else's conception of the piece? If yes, then I don't think it would be wrong to call the ensemble the "instrument" of the conductor.
Even in practice on an imperfect level, conductors will ask for certain notes or passages to be interpreted in a certain way. As far as I'm aware, instrumentalists won't just ignore this (whether it be out of respect for the conductor or whether it be a prerequisite for inclusion in the ensemble) if they disagree with the conductor's interpretation. Part of the ensemble-playing process is accepting that your interpretation must be secondary to the conductor.

The problem is that the "omniscient" conductor can't exist in practice, so individual creative interpretation necessarily becomes involved and the question becomes more academic than anything.

>>71741170
>Mercury Living Presence
>Paul Paray
>Oragan Symphony
An audiophile's dream right there

>tfw you find a great youtube channel uploading full recent opera performances and concerts with deliberately obtuse names so people can't find it easily
very /devilish/

>>71741170
>Dupre playing the organ
noice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8

Locatelli
https://youtu.be/HGuBCas2vf4

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>>71758913
My brother from another mother! The Cello Suites (with Starker) from this collection are beast too.

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>>71758967
So... why didn't you post a link?
Asshole.

>>71758854
Stahp.

>>71741170
The fugue in the last movement (after the ff organ solo) is so good.

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>Stoltz unironically put the Heath Ledger Joker into period costume and shoe-horned him into his production of Andrea Chenier at Bayerische staatsoper

Haydn, The Queen symphony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNd-4iAqusc
A very underrated one imho. The little game he uses the strings for in the last movement is so fun to listen to.
>>71759402
Sharing is caring anon.

>>71754790
t. triggered bogbilly

>>71754173
so what is actually expected?

An andante movement from an incomplete Vivaldi violin concerto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdI1Dw8FHQ
Any other examples with a similar texture (pizzicato continuo + bowed solo)?

>>71759934
why do you care anon? Don't tell me you're going to try to write some serialist wank. A lot of effort to go to to produce something unmusical and academic

Man, baroque opera are so fucking gay. Soprano roles for males? I feel my balls wither just thinking about it. Why not a basso profondo with so much hair on his chest you can make a turkish carpet out of it?

>>71760231
Bring back castrati.
Make opera great again.

>>71760231
>Why not a basso profondo with so much hair on his chest you can make a turkish carpet out of it?
Why not indeed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-SHmHike6o

>>71760231
Actually, why is all the baroque shit south and west of the Alps so fucking gay (or effeminate, whatever you want to call it)?

>>71760302
the only baroque school to extensively utilize low basses was French baroque, so you're not entirely right.

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>>71760264

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https://clyp.it/cjhdz01d

would you this symphony comp? 2nd section is slightly messy

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>>71760298
Solid proof that Renaissance > Baroque.

>>71760470
>https://clyp.it/cjhdz01d
Its awful and makes me want to kill myself

>>71760572
https://clyp.it/bsk333hu
;)

>>71760470
30 seconds of sloppy as fuck music is not a symphony, no. Can you faggots stop with the full on tutti assault from the very first note? Take some lessons in arrangement & orchestration. Study old scores if lessons are beyond your means. Also, is the dissonance intentional? I doubt it. Take some lessons in counterpoint too.

>>71760595
>a harmonica fag
This explains a lot of things. My advise: stop composing.

>>71760688
You know posting that will only make me compose harder right? ;)

back to musescore ciao

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>>71760727
Are you the guy upthread who dreams of being the next Mozart? Hold on... this guy?
>>71738347
If yes, WOW. Have you got a tough roe to hoe my dear anonymous friend. I say this out of kindness, from the bottom of my heart: stop composing. Your dreams are beyond your reach You're not made from the right stuff.

>>71760812
no I like beethoven more diff guy

I have extreme autism and no friends and play harmonica all day. what else do I have to look forward to doing other than writing music

If I'm that good I'm that good but it's not something to hold yourself too

If I practice sheet music as muchg as I do harmonica I /could/ be almost that good though it's time and avoiding 4chan/youtube

>>71760852
If you're only doing it to amuse yourself, carry on. I'm only giving you a heads up: don't have pretensions to a composing career or anything of that sort. My mistake for confusing you with that guy I talked to yesterday. You have vaguely similar posting styles (like using emoticons on a fucking imageboard; yes, I have autism too).

>>71759934
>so what is actually expected?
that you write music without the tonal system

>>71734740
>What are your favorite operas, favorite opera composers, favorite performances..?
Anything by Richard Wagner

>>71760980
I don't understand how you can have multiple voices if the tone row is already taking up all the notes.

>>71760943
My name is Gareth Jones remember that name.

>>71761174
What an unfortunate name. There are at least 4 Gareth Jones with wiki pages already.

What's the bump limit on /mu/?

>>71760004
pls respond

>>71761214
which is why I'm willing to post it here senpai

>>71761343
I wish I had this level of narcissistic delusion rather than becoming discouraged at every new endeavour

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crTNJaTur1U

Is this a recording problem or is Jacobs retarded? The strings (which here carry the main melodic lines) are too quiet and the winds and brasses (which carry ornamentation for the main line) too loud. Who the hell thought this was a good idea?

>>71761454
And it gets even worse once the voice parts begin. Probably one of the worst recordings of this opera ever.

New thread here.
>>71761508
>>71761508
>>71761508

>>71760135
Because I suck at music but I can't keep myself from making it. However what I am good at is creative pursuits grounded in logic. So I am trying various rigorous systems out so when I make shitty music at least I can say I followed the rules. It occurred to me that if you build a tone row around the octatonic scale you can get quite a major-sounding consonant sound with only 4 notes unaccounted for which can easily be slipped in as passing notes but also form a nice diminished 7th themselves.

>>71761406
https://clyp.it/jk04nvmf

>>71760004
>>71761337
https://youtu.be/UgfJTMCfHQc