Frank Zappa as composer/musician

Everytime he gets posted one or more post "ha a lmao le epic wanky guitar no talent doesnt know shit abouyt politticss" or something like that.
I love the man.

>>71682246
Personally I think he's greatd but one of the most overrated musicians
What annoys people about his fans is that when people say they don't like him, usually they get a response saying that they just don't 'get' him and act as if he's extremely experimental and avant garde which he really wasn't. Still like his music though

He's my favorite musician. He introduced some pretty radical ideas to the realm of popular music, but never took his music too seriously.

If you tell me what you like so far, I could give some recommendations.

>>71682246
I'd like him a lot more if he didn't feel the need to shove his ill-informed politics everywhere.

He's yawning.

>>71682502
He criticized a bunch of stuff, but none of his albums really express a clear political viewpoint.

>>71682246
I still wonder why i like Apostrophe as much as I do but true, it's such a fun and silly album.

Joe's Garage was a mindblowing rock opera in the first time I've listened to it, everything from Keep it Greasy onwards was great. Outside Now is one of my tracks from Zappa, but didn't think much of the guitar solo in Easter Hay. Nowadays I can recognize it as somewhat mysognistic with toxic ideologies and thus I came to appreciate it less as time went on. Since I'm a nu-male i detest this sort of ignorant macho attitude.

The Yellow Shark was possibly his best but im not into classical and havent found the time to learn the compositions yet so please forgive me. But I appreciated the sounds.

>>71682727
>not liking Easter Hay
>"toxic ideologies"

>>71682757
There's the whole icepick in the forehead thing and you know some people will defend this album but it was indeed a tad bit vulgar and disrespectful to women. I mean like if it was talking about men, i know that'd be offensive

>>71682933
He's mocking the attitude some men have towards women. The album is definitely vulgar, but it is not not misogynistic.

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Anyone have a favorite Zappa album?

Tie between We're Only In It For The Money and Joe's Garage

>>71682955
I know this but still, it's a little too masculine for me you know, but i'm okay with your opinion: he sort of makes fun of "everybody".

Dont let any faggots on here tell you the guy wasnt a talented composer. The complexity of some of his arrangements (check out live album Roxy and Elsewhere) is honestly mind blowing if you know the first thing about theory or playing music from a piece of paper.

Guitar wise he never had the chops of more technical guys but he was a literal endless fountain of fresh interesting licks that he would develop classical style mid solo

Also since one anon asked my favorites are Waka/Jawaka, Grand Wazoo, Hot Rats, and One Size Fits All because i like jazzy progressive music

>>71682422
OP here. I enjoyed Shut up and Play Yer Guitar which I downloaded as the entire project, as I guess it's commonly released now. Also, the track Watermelon in Easter Hay - which reminds me of David Gilmour but in some ways 'better'.. in other ways, not.. Hot Rats I got but have yet to listen to. Also I enjoyed his first album's sound in general , the sarcastic tounge in cheek lyrics about politics half of which he probably didn't 'believe'.. it's like hypocrticial rock music, which is cool.

>>71682334

I agree with it being annoying or just stupid when people say you don't 'get' a musician or group etc because you don't like the product. Sure, some tastes are acquired, or many are rather with alot of exposure - but some things in my case like most of what's released as black metal, I'll just never like.

also to the poster asking what I like in general, I'm trying to get away from music which has sinister under or overtones, or some occult kind of quality.. even Zappa was a Crowley book reader, like myself, or I used to be I should say, which I found a bit surprising to be honest. Basically music which distance itself from evil, however possible.

>>71682502
>>71682544
Haha.. my long time best friend once said "Zappa was just a guy who hated everything" and he was a long time 'fan' of Zappa's work, and a great guitarist too.

I'm a monarchist so I feel like his complaining and political edge, much like Roger Waters's is very very misguided and almost designed to keep persons in a confined area of thought as it pertains to relevant/important issues (like say fractional reserve lending, fundamental laws about property which go back to Normans [11th-14th Century England]) , and also but not limited to fundamental solutions and ideologies.

>>71683122
If you liked Freak Out, try We're Only in it for the Money.

>>71683000
Was SGT Peppers really meant to be The Beatles "Freak Out"? I don't remember if it was Paul or John who said that, but I think it's interesting to see that even the very popular bands at the time were under influence of Zappa's music, and don't understand his displeasure towards The Beatles either, i think they were all okay in retrospect

By the way my favorite is obvious, Hot Rats. The artwork is also one of the greatest ever no doubts

>>71683167
>is a monarchist
>complains about confined areas of thought
lmao

>>71683173
Will do, bud. Thanks. Just so you all know I'lll be gone the next hour (no bump on this post). Thank you for all the input, be back in a little bit!

>>71682544
It's weird how Zappa often criticized the direct results of capitalism but still drank the whole "muh laissez-faire gabidalizm" Kool-Aid.

>>71683221
I understand seeing monarchy as very bad, but please consider reading at least some of the essays on the following site:

http://www.monarchyamerica.net/resources.htm

In my own personal case, I'm of a noble Norman family which doesn't give me any kind of entitlement sense, but perhaps explains my own obsessions with land ownership and even my affinity for the Southern coast of England (Beachy Head is the greatest place on Earth..). So in my case, being Catholic I also submit this write-up, but admit I haven't fully read it yet myself. :) Cheers.

https://tradcatknight.org/why-catholic-monarchy/

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fuck off to /pol if you want to shitpost about politticss

>>71683284
Okay, I have given this a shot.
I can absolutely understand being upset with the status quo. I am also against the liberal representative "democracy" under which we live. However, the choice isn't just between liberal democracy and monarchy! There's a lot of different options that don't rely on tyranny of the majority OR of the minority. If you haven't already, I would strongly recommend giving Peter Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread a read. It's free for your consumption online.

>>71682502
>>71682544
>>71683167
>>71683250
>>71683221
Please stop discussing politics for crying out loud. How many threads do we need derailed seriously?

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>>71682246
>What does '/mu/' collectively and/or individually feel and think about Zappa's accreditation by so many critics as this genius composer?
I think he was a musical genius, given that he was a genre of his own and which musicians collaborated with him. Bands like Dün, Amoebic Ensemble are only some of the many he's influenced. He's also made me appreciate experimental music and he's definitely helped me with not taking relationships so seriously.

>>71682246
Great man, great composer, great musician, but definitely an acquired taste.

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>>71682246
>Getting closer to 30, I'm starting to appreciate instrumental music more
>30

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp1Qn7YZ_UA

Greatest american composer of the modern era.

>>71682246
Top of the charts in Scandinavia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUxFDgx9pmo

>>71683946
For whatever reason, Frank enjoyed most of his popularity over in Scandinavia.

His music even inspired revolution in the Czech Republic, and he was briefly named their American Cultural Ambassador.

Zappa' only Top 40 song, not that he actually gave a shit about that sort of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfn9n1w3J4o

Too bad there's no version with just the backing track.

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zappa did some very interesting and experimental stuff, but i kinda wish he took himself a little bit more seriously at times instead of just being "le wacky guitar guy."
as far as the anons talking about him being too political. he realy didn't show any clear political bias on most things.
he made fun of religion, cops, liberals, conservatives, gays, minorities. he took what i like to see as the "southpark approach" everyone and everything was on the chopping block.

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>>71682246
He had the best mustache.

>>71684260
>but i kinda wish he took himself a little bit more seriously at times instead of just being "le wacky guitar guy."
While his music was satirical and hilarious, it had to be played at the highest level of technical proficiency as humanly possible. He was a master of pushing musicians to their limits and getting the performance they didn't think they had in them. And all of them were thankful for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx1RguHA4XE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERFUbX648S4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztoeFXJsxJI

>>71683910
tied with brian wilson

>>71684413
>but i kinda wish he took himself a little bit more seriously at times instead of just being "le wacky guitar guy."
And it wasn't always like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9DqykUsqRY
This takes a genius to write and it's raw and powerful, even though the song is an instrumental one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQxI0G6mKk
Peaches En Regalia is another "tame" one.

>>71684413
Bozzio seems like such a lovable guy

>>71683853
this whole album is really good cause it's basically frank's most technically impressive band playing a bunch of his best tracks.

>>71684451
literally who?

>>71684260
>the "southpark approach"
Yeah, that's the problem. South Park's smug liberal centrism isn't the negation of ideology, it's an ideology unto itself. In fact, South Park centrists are the worst kind of ideologues. They criticize from the sidelines and say "both sides are equally as bad" because they're too afraid to take a stance that might get themselves criticized. Even worse, they view their ideology as "common sense" and deride everyone else as being "too extreme" since "the truth is in the middle," forgetting that "the middle" changes wildly depending on the circumstances. If South Park existed two centuries ago, it'd be snidely disparaging the North and the South because "these extremists don't know that the truth is in the middle of slavery and freedom for those damn negroes." If it existed three centuries ago, it'd be ranting about how "the truth is in the middle of feudalism and capitalism."

>>71685473
The show creators identify as libertarians, just as Zappa displayed libertarian leanings. They're not advocating centrism. Frank once described himself as a "constitutional conservative." That certainly doesn't sound like saying the truth is in the middle.

>>71685473
Or maybe they just realize stupidity is universal. Don't compare it to slavery.

>>71685652
Thats completely missing the point you mong, it doesnt conpare anything to slavery, it means chickenshit moderates avoid having a thought out opinion for the sake of pleasing everyones idealogies

>>71685895
They're not moderates you dweeb
Read >>71685538

>>71685538
>>71685652
>>71685934
Liberalism (read: the ideology that Zappa and South Park dweebs follow) is centrism.

>>71685473
I think that Zappa's approach was that nothing is immune to criticism.

bump test

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>>71682246
>music was shallow to the point of evaporating and had no legs to stand on other than being stylized and different. Except saying that it was different doesn't do it justice because his "style" could only be described as random bullshit
>not that this is inherently bad, but he also did it without any kind of charm or sense of self-awareness. It's just tacky and annoying.

>everything he produced was incredibly half-baked, lazy and aimless. I don't think even he knows where half of his albums were going or why they existed. Most of his albums were moderately interesting for the first 2 songs and then immediately delved into aimless, tacky bullshit that just existed as filler and I can't describe because they were so shallow and uninteresting I immediately forgot about them

>lyrical content almost always entailed nothing and was just meant to sound cool, and on the off-chance that it did it may as well not have because it was just embarrassing. I don't know if he actually thought he was making some kind of statement with "Bobby Brown Goes Down", but if it's supposed to be satire he must have forgotten to put the punchline in

>the composition is often nothing short of terrible. It's disjointed, aimless, ugly and irritating to listen to. Uncle Meat consisted mostly of instrumentals and it sounds like it was made by a 5 year old

>released a staggering amount of material and managed to create virtually nothing of interest

>pseudo-intellectual child that repeatedly embarrassed himself on national telivision when asked to provide some kind of case for his music or commentary on the music industry

It's fedora-core. It's just as vapid and easy to digest as the most pleb pop music there is but it has a zany, pseudo-edgy stylization for no particular reason that makes the listener feel like they're cool and different.

Not that I expect any kind of rebuttal to this. His fans are idiots with a surface-level appreciation of music.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WO3DuU6pj8

Some points of discussion:
What is Zappas best album? Backing band? Time period? Drummer?

>>71688254
I disagree, and the fact you think this is valid criticism is embarrassing. You could pull this shit with any musician:

>Well people think his music's like this, but its really like this
>Namedrop one album to show what I'm talking about
>Its just bad music- negative adjective, negative adjective, and negative adjective. Boom.
>His fans think they're cool but they're not.

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>>71688254
You could have gotten so many more replies if you hadn't just stolen that one queer's post. Either way, you're wrong and you won't even get the time of day.

>>71688468
stolen whose post?

>>71688254
>Not that I expect any kind of rebuttal to this.
Fucking called it.

>>71688509
A few threads ago, there was a guy who posted the exact same thing as you and spent most of it switching between sides of arguments until eventually he just gave up and stopped posting.

I don't even know why I'm saying this, you're literally copying his post ver batim

>>71683175
>Was SGT Peppers really meant to be The Beatles "Freak Out"?
I really don't buy that. The myth is that Paul had claimed, while making the album "This is our Freak Out!" but there really is no actual primary source for this. The problem is if you listen to the preceding two albums, The Beatles were already on the trajectory to make Sgt Pepper with or without Zappa's influence. Songs like "Tomorrow Never knows" and "For No One" really paved the way for "Mr Kite" and "She's Leaving Home".
>and don't understand his displeasure towards The Beatles either,
The problem is this is very much misunderstood. He didn't like the commercialization of music and the hippy culture. Since Sgt Pepper was the center of that (in his mind) he attacked Sgt Pepper. Not the music, but just the idea of it. He would go on to jam with John Lennon and cover his songs later in life, so obviously he respected them as contemporaries.

But also remember Zappa loved The Monkees and The Turtles, two bands who worshiped the Beatles themselves. So clearly it wasn't a musical problem.

>>71683122
why do you want to distance yourself from evil music anon

Him and Beefheart were literal geniuses.

Also I wouldve married a young Moon Unit

>I was never very much impressed with ‘intense’ arrangements: you get a piece of paper out, you put a bunch of dots on it, and you hire someone and say, ‘play that!’ –Joe Satriani
what a retarded quote and unsurprising it comes from Satriani. His playing is super derivative. He doesn't hold a candle to Zappa.

>>71688931
Moon Unit scares me. I watched an interview with her when she was 14, and she sounded more intelligent and eloquent than most adults I've ever met.

Fuzzy dice
Bongos in the back
My ship of love
Ready to attack

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I-ffoygs7g

>>71688867
Seriously.

Evil music lets me get in touch with my sociopath side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBuxG9t_PE

>>71683066
So are you on HRT or did you just go full elastrator?

>>71682246
I haven't listened to any of his orchestral stuff, but a lot of his other work. Guy was obviously a genius as both a musician and a satirist, but it's probably best approached in the same way you would Loony Tunes or Merrie Melodies.

>>71692579
>it's probably best approached in the same way you would Looney Tunes or Merrie Melodies.

Now that I think about it, a few of instrumentals wouldn't be too out of place in a cartoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig8behOcf7s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCu1O7U38Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr6mTloYJJs

>>71689710
i was obsessed with that song for a week or two a few months back