Is this the first progressive rock album?

>>71668500
for you.

>>71668500
More like "regressive rock."

Absolutely Free has it beat by a month

>>71668594
This is wrong

>>71668580
It's a regression for the Beatles themselves.

>>71668708
By like a week actually

>>71668500
>Is this the first progressive rock album?
>Rock
Not really.
https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the_beatles/sgt__peppers_lonely_hearts_club_band/

>>71668767
Less than a week

>>71668796
>rym is a reliable source
the beatles are rock, dude

>>71668500
hansson and karlsson were first

>>71669013
What is a reliable source then?

>>71669048
Actual musicians and musicologists

>>71669046
/thread
http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/hansson_and_karlsson/monument/

>>71668594
>>71668767
Copies of Sgt Pepper were already leaking in May. Radio stations were already playing the album in its entirety that month, in which Capitol had to get a court injunction to stop the leaks

Pepper was essentially out before Absolutely Free.

>>71669070
So, are you going to provide any credible source?

>>71669143
>"When I was 20, I worked at a hotel in a dance orchestra, playing weddings, bar-mitzvahs, dancing, cabaret. I drove home and I was also at college at the time. Then I put on the radio (Radio Luxemburg) and I heard this music. It was terrifying. I had no idea what it was. Then it kept going. Then there was this enormous whine note of strings. Then there was this colossal piano chord. I discovered later that I'd come in half-way through Sgt. Pepper, played continuously. My life was never the same again"
-Robert Fripp on hearing the Beatles Sgt Pepper

>"The Beatles. They broke down every barrier that ever existed. Suddenly you could do anything after The Beatles. You could write your own music, make it ninety yards long, put it in 7/4, whatever you wanted."
-Bill Bruford, drummer of King Crimson and Yes.

>Revolver remains my favorite because that’s the first one where I felt that they stepped outside the normal four-piece band and started experimenting in the studio. That album introduces a lot of things that are firsts. Things like Indian music and orchestras playing with the band and backwards guitar, a lot of things that I still really love.
>Yes, there is so much in their music that is very avant-garde. Experimental songs, which first began as 20-minute jams, that a prog-rock band might do. I’m thinking of “Helter Skelter”, which I just read was originally a 27-minute jam! They edited that down to a three-and-a-half minute song!
-Adrian Belew, King Crimson

>>71668500
It's the last progressive rock album

>>71668500
According to Scaruffi, other bands did it better before they did

>>71669269
>According to Scaruffi
lol

>>71669225
Does that also mean that an Australopithecine banging two rocks together in the Pleistocene was the actual first progressive rock album because it paved the way for future generations of progressive rock music?

>>71669225
All right. I wasn't really arguing that The Beatles didn't have any (pop) rock songs. For me, it will always be a shame that they watered down their grand concepts to lighthearted ~3 minute pop songs for the most part.

>>71668500
Isn't Pet Sounds the first prog rock album?

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I'd argue that this was.

>>71669375
psychedelic.

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>>71669358
>Isn't Pet Sounds the first prog rock album?
No, it was the first noise rock album.

>>71669336
Show me a musicologist or actual musician claiming that, and we'll see
>>71669350
What?

>>71669375
Rock concept album? yes.
Prog rock album? no.

>>71669484
>All right. I wasn't really arguing that The Beatles didn't have any (pop) rock songs. For me, it will always be a shame that they watered down their grand concepts to lighthearted ~3 minute pop songs for the most part.
I know, I know. I was so bold as to dare criticize a band you like. Are you the same guy that claimed that there were noise elements in Pet Sounds?
>>71669457

Wikipedia lists Rubber fucking Soul as a prog rock album

I think people tend to slap the label "progressive rock" on too many things willy-nilly

>>71669529
>I was so bold as to dare criticize a band you like
Quote me where I said I liked The Beatles.

Also, what's wrong with pop songs?
>Are you the same guy that claimed that there were noise elements in Pet Sounds?
I'm not.

Any real arguments?

>>71670023
>Quote me where I said I liked The Beatles.
>Also, what's wrong with pop songs?
Isn't this ironic? What's wrong with pop? It's insincere for the most part and not even about the music in many cases.

>>71670166
>It's insincere
How do you know? Do you know the artists personally?
>not even about the music in many cases
How so?

>>71668500
Proto-progressive rock

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>>71668500
No.

>>71670249
Not prog at all. Absolutely Free and onwards was, but not Freak Out

>>71670203
What are you getting so defensive about? You said that you didn't like Beatles, but that seems to not be the case, since you have something against me stating the obvious facts about pop music.
https://www.wired.com/2011/12/hit-potential-equation/
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a-machine-successfully-predicted-the-hit-dance-songs-of-2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyPJiey6vck

>>71670344
>What are you getting so defensive about?
What makes you think I'm defensive?
>You said that you didn't like Beatles
Quote me where I said I didn't like The Beatles
>since you have something against me stating the obvious facts about pop music.
Oh like this song?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPy18xW1j8

>>71669350
This is what makes The Beatles so impressive imo. They say just what they need to say in those short songs. If I Am the Walrus was a 15 minute psychedelic jam it wouldn't be as impressive as it was as a 3 minute pop song.

>>71669531
>Wikipedia lists Rubber fucking Soul as a prog rock album
just checked and that's wrong

>>71670390
>Quote me where I said I didn't like The Beatles
>>71670023
>Quote me where I said I liked The Beatles.
>What makes you think I'm defensive?
>>71670023
>Also, what's wrong with pop songs?
>Any real arguments?
I'm done playing your game.

>>71668594
yeah, and also Absolutely Free actually feels like a prog rock album. Calling Sgt. Pepper progressive rock is just wrong.

>>71670501
Sorry, I'm not seeing where I said I did or sis not like the Beatles.

Try again. I know you're at full-on damage control phase but you could at least be consistent

>>71668500
more like THE reason rock cannot be considered an art form

>>71669225
holy shit, I wonder if Paul's holding onto that 27 minute cut like he is for Carnival of Light

Don't you think you guys are all a bit ridiculous? you all use arguments such as date of the release or how other musicians say about the beatles to "justify" why it's good/bad.
Why not look at the quality of the songs. Let's compare the beatles to say... Frank Zappa.

The beatles played terrible pop music for over half of their career,so I won't count that.
Pepers and say...uncle meat show the astronomical difference between them.
Zappa's melodies are both Hilarious and erudite. They are as complex as classical melodies yet they always remind you,in an ironically and often cynical way of pop music and why it sucks.
The Beatles's melodies have literally nothing special about them. I spent 5 minutes here thinking of what to say. no joke.

Zappa and the Beatles also heavily relied in the studio(zappa was the first one to use it).

The Beatles input techniques in the studio are virtually unmatched. Sadly the output,which is what actually matters, was literally always the same: to create a psychedelic aesthetic. The Beatles didn't use distortion,probably because George martin knew it wouldn't sell,and so they had to do something to catch up to the growing trend(this is around 1966,with the first PF EPs, VU&N,Jefferson Airplane and The grateful Dead and Jimy Hendrix's first concerts )but that also wouldn't be too shocking,and this was the result, a very pleasant sound,but it was certainly never astonishing.

The way zappa used the studio was essentially to make 2 things: To create unique combinations of instruments/timbers and to make a parody of music(essentially the core of his "Don't take music too seriously"), he didn't use the studio just to use the studio. Take for examle the son King Kong,it was recorded in various places,yet it sounds just like a single songs. they can't be a coincidence. Zappa composed it this way and used the studio to cut/edit everything to make that masterpiece.

>>71672356
I probably love Zappa more than anybody else on this board, but I cringed so hard reading this. There's a reason why fans often give his music a bad rap.

>>71672356
This is such bullshit

>>71671771
He is. It was almost on Anthology 3 but George scrapped it.

Rumor is that t might be on the Sgt Pepper 50th Anniversary set coming out in June.

>>71673302
Why would it be on Sgt. Pepper's when Helter Skelter was on the White Album?

>>71673494
Oh wait, I thought you were talking about Carnival of Light my bad

>>71672356
>The Beatles's melodies have literally nothing special about them. I spent 5 minutes here thinking of what to say. no joke.
Probably because you don't know music theory

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>>71672356
>The Beatles didn't use distortion,probably because George martin knew it wouldn't sell,and so they had to do something to catch up to the growing trend(this is around 1966,with the first PF EPs, VU&N,Jefferson Airplane and The grateful Dead and Jimy Hendrix's first concerts )but that also wouldn't be too shocking,and this was the result, a very pleasant sound,but it was certainly never astonishing.
Pic related, it's John playing one of the first fuzz pedals ever built, the Maestro Fuzztone

Please don't discuss music ever again

>>71673836
Worth noting that they were attempting to use the Fuzztone during the "She Loves You" sessions in 1963, nearly two years prior to "(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction"

>tfw this tape is presumably lost forever

>>71670249
you're probably the kind of idiot that thinks that Freak Out! predated Sgt. Pepper in terms of what a "concept album" is

>>71674018
The first concept album was The Who Sell Out TBQH

>>71668500
It's the beginning of the end. John used to say it's Paul's music for old people.

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>>71674093
You're not being quite honest, are you?

>>71674093
Actually it's "In the Wee Small Hours".

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>>71674149
>>71674152
Well, if this is how it's going to be, then it was actually Dust Bowl Ballads.
Should specify that I mean ROCK concept album.

>>71674093
Miles Davis did concept albuns since the mid 50's.

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>>71674149
>>71674152
Not his best concept album though. His best concept album is Watertown

>>71674191
Not an album. It's a series of EPs.

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>>71674236

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>>71674272

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>>71674311

IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO TODAY

>>71674346
>in 1964
See >>71674149

>>71674394
That still retroactively makes it an album.

>>71674500
>retroactively
Stop

>>71674562
Stop making sense?

>>71674582
Stop making revisionist history.

>>71674603
Tell that to Woody Guthrie, who retroactively made the first concept album.

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>>71674618
>retroactively
By that logic, then the first concept album would be a collection of Thomas Edison test recordings.

>>71674671
That'd just be musique concrète, not a concept album.

>>71674692
The concept would be test sound recordings

>>71674740
That would mean that literally every single album is a concept album because the concepts would be people playing instruments.

>>71674776
That's fine.

>>71674222
lmao who asked anyway

>>71674817
So you're incorrect, the first album is actually the Seikilos epitaph.

>>71674875
No, it's probably be African tribal dances

>>71674843
??

>>71674917
No surviving records exist. It's the Seikilos epitaph.

>>71674943
>No surviving records exist.
They exist in the collective minds of the people

>>71674965
1. Not that we know of.
2. Even if we did know that for sure, we wouldn't know how old the ones existing in the collective minds of the people are.
3. Even if we knew that, we don't know if they haven't been modified, intentionally or not, over the thousands of years due to the inherently flawed nature of human memory.

It's the Seikilos epitaph.

>>71675003
Not true. We know... retroactively.

>>71675018
Not an argument.

>>71675051
Then neither is >>71674500

>>71675078
Untrue.

>>71675105
Why?

>>71675003
>It's the Seikilos epitaph.
It's a song, not an album

Nice try though

>>71675119
Because we can't know something retroactively. It's got to be set in stone.
The Seikilos epitaph is set in stone. It's the first concept album.
>>71675150
Thick as a Brick is both a song and an album. African tribal dances are also songs.

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>>71668500
>I USED TO BE CRUEL TO MY WOMAN, I'D BEAT HER AND KEPT HER FROM THE THINGS THAT SHE LOVED

>>71675174
>Because we can't know something retroactively.
Hence Songs From The Dustbowl cannot be the first concept album
>The Seikilos epitaph is set in stone. It's the first concept album.
Incorrect, it's a song
>Thick as a Brick is both a song and an album
The Seikilos epitaph is not though

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>>71675051

>>71675230
>Hence Songs From The Dustbowl cannot be the first concept album
I never said that you can KNOW that Dust Bowl Ballads is a concept album retroactively, I said that it IS a concept album retroactively.
>Incorrect, it's a song
Yes, a song and an album.
>The Seikilos epitaph is not though
And you're the almighty judge on whether or not something is a song or an album?

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>>71675230
>>71675174
>>71675119
>>71675105
>>71675078
>>71675051
>>71675018
>>71675003
>>71674965
>>71674943
>>71674930
>>71674917
>>71674875
>>71674843
>>71674817
>>71674776
>>71674740
>>71674692
>>71674671
>>71674618
>>71674603
>>71674582
>>71674562
>>71674500
>>71674394
>>71674346
>>71674311
>>71674272
>>71674236
>>71674222
>>71674206
>>71674191
>>71674152
>>71674149
>>71674132
>>71674093
The first concept album is DSOTM

>>71675243

>>71675286
What's the concept?

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>>71675284
>I said that it IS a concept album retroactively.
If it IS, then you KNOW. Right?
>Yes, a song and an album
An album is a collection of songs (see pic related). If it's one song, it's a single release. Sorry
>And you're the almighty judge on whether or not something is a song or an album?
Just going by the definition of "album". Look it up
>>71675286
No

>>71675325
>If it IS, then you KNOW. Right?
I know because it is, not because I know.
>An album is a collection of songs (see pic related). If it's one song, it's a single release. Those distinctions were made in the 40th Anniversary edition. Prior to that, it was one song. Sorry, kiddo. Once again, not an argument.
>Just going by the definition of "album". Look it up
It says here that it is "a collection of recordings issued as a single item on CD, record, or another medium." Therefore, Dust Bowl Ballads is an album, as it is a collection of recordings. Unless, of course, you wish to dispute that claim? Also, if we're going by the accepted definitions, then your Thomas Edison album is not a concept album, as it is not an "album featuring a cycle of songs expressing a particular theme or idea."

>>71675397
>The group had not intended to record a single continuous piece, but it developed organically in the studio;[8] the band came up with individual song segments, then wrote short pieces of music to link them together.[9]
Nice try. Also check the publishing credits-- it's published as separate works. It was promoted as one song, but it wasn't because the label wouldn't have recognized it as an album, not meeting a minimum number of songs (the same thing that happened to Mars Volta).
>Therefore, Dust Bowl Ballads is an album, as it is a collection of recordings
In 1964, yes. A compilation album. Not in 1940, as it was released as a collection of several records. "Retroactively" is not an argument.

>>71675494
>Nice try. Also check the publishing credits-- it's published as separate works. It was promoted as one song, but it wasn't because the label wouldn't have recognized it as an album, not meeting a minimum number of songs (the same thing that happened to Mars Volta).
Alright, so let's not use Thick as a Brick as an example. Let's instead use echolyn - mei, which is indeed one continuous song. It is also an album. How about that?
>In 1964, yes. A compilation album. Not in 1940, as it was released as a collection of several records. "Retroactively" is not an argument.
Yes, a collection of several records. Which fits the definition of an album - "a collection of recordings."

>>71675311
Passing of time

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>>71675563
>Let's instead use echolyn - mei, which is indeed one continuous song. It is also an album. How about that?
Never heard of it but pic related
>>71675563
>Which fits the definition of an album - "a collection of recordings."
...issued as a single item on CD, record, or another medium."

You forgot that.

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>>71675620
>Never heard of it but pic related
Nice try. Pic related, you forgot that as well.

Also, does that mean that double and triple albums aren't albums, as they come on two/three separate discs?

>>71675679
You are very crafty indeed

>>71675563


Except you are complete missing the point of a album. It is a piece of art that is placed in a certain order to give you the essence of the artist. A concept album needs to have artist's idea or a story to get the art across. A collection of songs, recordings, interviews, or instrumentals is an album but not a concept album. Pet Sounds is the first concept album.

>>71675706
>Pet Sounds is the first concept album.
See >>71674149

>>71675693
Likewise. Appreciate it.

>>71675706
>A collection of songs, recordings, interviews, or instrumentals is an album but not a concept album.
I'm fully aware of that, but the person with whom I was talking was saying that every album is a concept album because every album's concept is people playing instruments.

>>71675723
For fuck's sake, no. We're not starting from scratch again.

>>71675736
>every album is a concept album because every album's concept is people playing instruments.

That would be a very shallow definition for a concept album and it completely ignores the artistic intent.

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>>71674149
>>71674191

>>71675831
Indeed, but it was the definition he chose, so I played along.
I'd still personally say that, strictly speaking, The Who Sell Out is the first album that is objectively, inarguably a concept album. Pet Sounds is definitely up there, but one could argue that having innovative soundscapes and thoughtful lyrics about love isn't enough to be a concept album. Lennon himself said that Sgt. Pepper's isn't a concept album and that the whole "live performers" thing was developed independently from the actual album and was just sort of thrown in. But there is no one who would disagree that TWSO is a concept album.

>>71670249
Freak out is the first progressive rock album and anyone saying otherwise is a retard. Prove me wrong protip you cant

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>>71668500
No. But even if it was, pic related shat on it a few months later. A real concept album, and an effective fusion of late 60s pop rock and classical music.

>>71677256
Meant to add, Pet Sounds is about as "prog" as SGt P, that would be my vote. But also stuff like the 13th Floor Elevators debut the previous year could be seen as proggy.