WHY ISN'T THERE MORE MICROTONAL MUSIC REEEEEEEEEE!

sorry

Because microtonal notes sound like shit

>>71658353
listen to some middle eastern shit

there is just enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDroa5WTU34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhF0-hN4I8k
have fun OP

>>71658353
>REEEEEEEEEE

Is this the racist White nationalist meme?

Because it takes a lot of effort to make microtonal music

I actually don't know. You'd think that would have been more of a thing among the Darmstadt people than it was, but instead it was manifested as "super" sharps and flats and "super" chromatic lines. I'm still waiting for someone to properly explore non-twelve-tone scales. (Well I guess Harry Partch did, but it never caught on...)

>>71658407
I said more Baka. I already listened to these.

>>71658353
>t. just heard flying microtonal banooner
A significant portion of modern classical uses more than 12 tones, as well as a fuckton of middle eastern, african, and Indian music

Also most music you listen to already incorporates music outside the traditional 12-tone scale, just not in le epic experimental ways. See: literally any time a guitarist bends a string

Microtonal is becoming a buzzword here because of some shitty indie rock band.

Harry Partch is my boy. The Bewitched is a really good piece and you should listen to it. There's also a bandcamp dude that made a cool microtonal pop album.

https://spectropolrecords.bandcamp.com/album/micropangaea

And you can listen to a bunch of non-Western music to scratch your microtonal itch. I'm a big fan of gamelan, personally.

>>71658353
>listens to Flying microtonal banana once.

>>71659204
And a lot of vocals
Particularly in rap music funnily enough

>>71658384
>Because microtonal notes sound like shit
we use 12 tet because of 5 rules
53 tones equal temperament, is better than the 12 tet according to almost all rules, it just fail the rule that tell we dont want to have a huge ass piano.

I like 49ED256, equvalent of 6.125ED2, if was possible to have 6.123 keys

>>71662195
>according to almost all rules
not according to people's ears.

Seriously, microtonal shit is just clumsy-sounding, if not downright ugly.

File: moa.jpg (131KB, 900x589px) Image search: [Google]

131KB, 900x589px

>>71662230
12 tet can sound like that too though, I don't think theres anything inherently ugly about microtonal music, it just hasn't been explored to the extent 12 tet music has (from my experience).

>>71661496
examples?

>>71662230
>not according to people's ears.
we dont use 12tet because of how it sound to people ears.

The rules are:
1-To each note with frequency X we want to have another note with frequency 2X, the idea is that we dont just play one note at a time, and when playing two notes at the same time, the note 2x, played at the same time as the note X sounds good.
2-We want that (for some reason I dont know) the next note frequency is 1.5 times the previous note.
3-Rules 1 and 2 together is impossible, as some example 1* 1.5 * 1.5 = 2.25 and not 2. Because of that we decided to use equal temperament, where the frequency of a note A divided by the frequency of the previous note, will always have the value of Y.
4-Usual piano wont have all frequencies, because after some amount of time, they start to sound shitty, because the way the piano works.
5-We dont want to have a huge ass piano.


Then we use formula N=((3/2)^x)/(2^y)
We want to a value of X where N will be as close as possible to 1.
With the value of X being 12 and Y being 7, N become 1.01364....
With X being 53 and Y being 31, N becomes 1.00209.

All this formula here, means that while you the frequency of the next note wont be 1.5 times the previous note frequency, it will be closer to that, it wont be the next note, and it wont be 1.5 but it will be there.


And there is also a=440, some comitte decided it should be a4=439, but because 439 is prime and because of the technology of the era, the instrument makers complained, and the comitee changed it to 440.
So we use 440hz as A4 because of nothing more than lack of technology at the era.

>>71662955
More:
1-If the frequency X doenst sound good when playing with the frequency 2x, YOU SHOULDNT BE USING 12TET
2-If you dont think notes should increase in a 1.5 way YOU SHOULDNT BE USING 12TET
3-Depending of how big a piano should be to be considered too big, the amount of notes in the octave (or whatever the hell you use) you should use, will be higher or smaller. The max and min frequencies you want the usual piano to have also influence that.
4-Unless you think a4=440hz, is a mistake that came for the better, you should be using a4=439hz because thats was what the comitte selected and we just didnt used at the time because the lack of technology

>>71658384
Microtonality doesn't have an inherent sound. You need to realize that a tool and how it's used are two different things. In general you need to put forward some effort and get accustomed to listening to it.

>>71659204
Most of those examples are bent or modified notes for purposes of melodic expression. In a lot of ways I think microtonality is more interesting for its harmonic possibilities. This isn't covered at all in, for example, Indian music. If you're just thinking of it as bent notes, that's not really a useful conception at all.

>>71658408
All memes are racist white nationalist memes because 90 percent of memes are made by spoiled white people.

>>71664570
as well as 90% of civilization worth preserving ;^)

>>71664612
Funny you'd say that in this thread when the people with the most sophisticated perception of intonation and tuning are non-Western. Turkey is way ahead of Europe in that department.

File: Syzygyz.jpg (12KB, 366x244px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 366x244px

Is this still the greatest microtonal pop album of all time?
https://youtu.be/Pq51rzmD2m8

>>71658407

this is terrible


this is why Kant explains that music isn't art.

let me guess, OP meant "microtonal popular music", eh?

>>71664726
At this point I kind of like Brendan Byrnes more.

>>71664794
>my uninformed reaction to a work is an objective property of that work

grow up

>>71664794
kant can go suck a dick
categorical imperative is the gayest shit i've ever heard of

>>71664794
in Kant's day Mozart was composing so I'm pretty sure he was just an emmotionless autistic asshole if he said that

>>71664855
looks interesting, I'll give him a listen.

Kant's ideas are actually really cool. It's the conclusions he derives from them that are pretty fucking stupid

>>71664896
>>71664895

It's well known that philosophers can't into music, so quoting a philosopher on music as though it carries some weight just exposes you as an idiot.

>>71664940
>philosophers can't into music
Pythagoras
Goethe
Schopenhauer
Nietzsche
Adorno

>>71664929
other people have been doing microtonal electronic stuff too
https://youtu.be/xVZy9GUeMqY
https://youtu.be/J_4zr0Qk6o0

>>71665076
second one sounds great, thanks

>>71665163
There's some more of that too
https://youtu.be/d4t5B6nPQGg

I like these a lot also:
https://youtu.be/6gxuySP08Is
https://youtu.be/odTIoRzbDhA

Microtonal notes sound horrible on guitar.

>>71665465
What? How can you paint in such broad strokes and think you're saying anything worthwhile at all?

>>71664726
I love this band so much man

File: 2patrician4u.jpg (40KB, 500x497px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 500x497px

>>71664726
yeah boy
their live album was pretty neat also
otona was a pretty significant departure from their earlier style and didn't really do it for me.

>>71665396
definitely a Messiaen flavour to that last one

>>71664977
>Nietzsche
you proved his point kek

I'm surprised there's no mention of Wendy Carlos ITT.

>>71664726
Cistonal shitlords BTFO

File: 1489718132796.jpg (115KB, 750x500px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 750x500px

>>71664726

RARE

>>71666018
paucitonal would be a better term, for real

http://untwelve.org/what

Because less than 1% of the worlds population has autism

>>71664726
I never knew they used Harry Partch's 43-tone scale, that's fucking awesome
I don't think I've ever seen women on this level of patricianship

>>71666160

Really mature

>>71665516
Because its true they sound like ass

>>71666219
You don't even know what microtonal refers to.

>>71666187
They modified a reed organ so it that it plays about one octave of Partch's scale. Other than that they use ordinary instruments. It ended up being a surprisingly workable compromise.

>>71666219
>>71665465
It's not the notes themselves that sound "like ass". It's some combinations of them. There are plenty of combinations of notes that are dissonant in the standard 12 tone system. The composition techniques for it are a lot more developed though. People know which combinations to avoid. Microtonal systems have not been used often, so most people who fiddle with them keep running into dissonant sequences of notes because they have no idea what they're doing.

You can always listen to arab music. It doesn't sound like shit. Why? Because it's been in use for centuries, and people have discovered which combinations work (they always use subsets of the whole 24 note octave). It's the same trick in any music system: only use the subset that "sounds good". You can write atonal music in equal temperament as well, and it sounds just as shitty as most microtonal music.

>>71667068
I know how it sounds

>>71667107
They use ordinary instruments but they still play in Partch's scale. Violin and fretless bass can play whatever scale you want if your fingers are precise enough

>>71667150
If you think you can sum it all up like that, then no, you don't. You're not paying attention at all.

all music is microtonal. do you think guitarists have their instrument tuned 100% correct the entire time including the loosening of strings while playing?

>>71667221
He probably does knows exactly how it sounds: dissonant. You may be into the eerie dissonant shit, but most people aren't. This is the problem --
>>71667147

>>71667243
You know unnecessary pedanticisms don't make you look smart, right?

>>71667147
The funny thing is that the 12 equal tritone is one of the most dissonant intervals possible. But it's very important in Western music. We've gotten accustomed to the dissonance.

> Microtonal systems have not been used often, so most people who fiddle with them keep running into dissonant sequences of notes because they have no idea what they're doing.

Well, it's not really difficult to stick to consonant scales and intervals. The problem is more that it takes time and effort to get used to hearing something different, so that it sounds natural rather than jarring. If the notes don't fall where you're conditioned to expect them to fall, it sounds disconcerting, even if they form a very consonant scale.

And there's some confusion as well because "experimental" fields of music tend to attract experimental-minded people. So a lot of them are intentionally writing dissonant music. That's not a quality shared by all microtonal music.

>You can always listen to arab music. It doesn't sound like shit. Why? Because it's been in use for centuries, and people have discovered which combinations work (they always use subsets of the whole 24 note octave).

Sort of; in many ways that's not a good comparison. For starters, they're not always playing quartertones.

>You can write atonal music in equal temperament as well, and it sounds just as shitty as most microtonal music.

It's not as though dissonance is inherently bad. You can appreciate atonal music too.

Here, I just made a microtunal song right now

https://clyp.it/h0f1dr0l

>>71667178
In live performances they're also using ordinary synthesizers that don't appear to be tuned to any alternative scale.

>>71667243
Way to miss the point...

>>71667281
>He probably does knows exactly how it sounds: dissonant.

It doesn't though. Some of it is dissonant, sure. But some 12 equal music is also dissonant. Saying all microtonal music shares any common quality is completely uninformed.

>>71664794
>this is why Kant explains that music isn't art.
>Kant
that was nietzsche you moron. kant wouldve never said something this autistic

>>71666187
I thought they were dudes in drag honestly

Because it's shit and if you understand music you'll realise it's shit. I better add that this is my opinion so I can get myself off the hook really easily.

>>71667539

Well you're wrong

>>71658353
Ron Sword for win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPkAFXfokA8

>>71667539
> if you understand music

...well you certainly don't

>>71667364
> it takes time and effort to get used to hearing something different
Stop parroting this crap. It's not true at all. Gamelan music does not sound dissonant on first listen. Indian music does not sound dissonant on first listen. Pygmy music does not sound dissonant on first listen. All these sound good without the listener needing to "get accustomed" to them. Why? Because they've been used for centuries if not millennia, and the people who use them have developed practices that avoid dissonances.

I already pointed out that 12 tone equal temperament has many dissonant combinations.

>It's not as though dissonance is inherently bad. You can appreciate atonal music too.
No, it's inherently bad. You're a shit eater.
Every good piece of experimental music has been tonal (e.g. spectral music).

>>71667425
He is making a blanket statement you anal retentive idiot. Most microtonal music in the west is dissonant as all shit. The fact that standard tuning has plenty of dissonant garbage is irrelevant. I am aware of that. Everyone is aware of that. I mentioned it myself just before.

>>71667688
No, if the step sizes in the scale aren't what you're used to hearing, and you don't hear it against any accompaniment that suggests in advance what they will be, then it's jarring. But on repeated listenings you become familiar with the scale already and it sounds natural. This is true of middle eastern and indian music as well. Listen to Easley Blackwood's album and it should be obvious.

>No, it's inherently bad. You're a shit eater.

get a load of this pleb

also since when is spectralism necessarily tonal?

>>71667688
>>71667364
Even in Europe, Romanian folk music for example uses modes that feature microtones. Play Ives' quarter tone pieces and Romanian folk music side by side, and 99.9% of listeners will point out that Ives' shit sounds various kind of out of tune, while the Romanian folk music does not.

If I see another poseur /mu/tant say something retarded like "dissonances don't sound dissonant anymore after you get used to them" or "some sounds only sound consonant because you're familiar with them/they're from your cultural context" I'm going to fucking find you and strangle you with a piano string.

It's so fucking wrong on its face. And everyone can do the damn experiment themselves. Find some traditional sub-Saharan Africa music and listen to it. That stuff is FULL of microtones. And yet it DOES NOT SOUND "OUT OF TUNE" to virtually everyone.

God I'm pissed off.

>>71667734
>He is making a blanket statement
which happens to be obviously wrong

>Most microtonal music in the west is dissonant as all shit.
Some of it is. That's not a property of microtonality itself.

>>71667864
It isn't __necessarily__ tonal, it's just that pretty much all composers into it have been diligent enough to keep their stuff tonal. Grisey even specifically mentioned his getting sick of atonal music and serialism as motivation for starting work in that domain. Can you fucking stop posting please? You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>71667864
>>71667898
Stop posting you poseurs. You're clueless.

>>71667895
this guy gets it

>>71658407
This is making me extremely nervous. It's also shit.

>>71667895
The thing is, the quartertone scale kind of sucks. It doesn't improve on any of the shortcomings of 12 equal and it only adds a small number of useful intervals (the neutral third is great though). It was mainly only used out convenience. In practice, it's also very difficult to tune two pianos a quarter tone apart. In many recordings and performances the tunings aren't even accurate.

>"dissonances don't sound dissonant anymore after you get used to them"
That's not what I said, dipshit. Unfamiliar consonant intervals can be perceived as dissonant until you get used to them. This has been demonstrated by listening tests where untrained listeners often prefer 12 equal tempered thirds (which are very significantly out of tune and objectively more dissonant) over 5 limit just intonation thirds. We have already gotten used to dissonance in the form of the 12 tone equal scale.

>God I'm pissed off.
Don't worry, you're just dense as fuck.

File: a2731568276_10.jpg (377KB, 1200x1200px) Image search: [Google]

377KB, 1200x1200px

*ahem*

>>71667539
>this one certain way we arbitrarily decided to split up the spectrum of pitch is the only way to do it and every other way is wrong

this is huh... wow...

>>71668082
Well, 12 equal isn't totally arbitrary, but it's not optimal or comprehensive either. It's merely a decent compromise if you're trying to build instruments.

File: 70e.jpg (28KB, 567x565px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 567x565px

>>71658381

Imagine is stephan mollyneu was microtunal

listen to Ben Johnston

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwQxCi6pSEk&list=PLBJYcaB0IMrRm6cu5vzspSqvh6aWAdlDs&index=1

>baby first's alt-scale

>>71668741
what? which one?

this one is great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlTHLPX-Bd8

>>71669915
it was nice until it went full alllahu ackbar

>>71670215
wat

>>71671081
Isn't that mostly just a bunch of meme arbitrary pitches with no intelligible harmonic relationship?

>>71671251
yes. but sounds good, no?