/classical/

reminds me i need to get a haircut

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>>71527681

Also still working on the copypasta

Taking suggestions

Brahms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnk78xvil14

>>71527737
Hindemith - Concert Music for brass and strings Op. 50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42cVbfcDKag

CPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwNwuIt1GjU

>implying classical is good
eurofolk/neofolk>>>>>>>>>>classical

>>71528800
Excellent. Recommend me some good European folk from before World War II.

>>71527737
What's this about a copypasta?

>>71527681
>tfw haven't gotten a haircut in months

Name your favorite composer thats NOT in the canon

>>71530959
Zelenka

Romantic > Contemporary > Baroque > Modernist > Classical > Medieval > Renaissance

you know it's true

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>>71531400
t. retard who knows jack shit about theory

>>71531496
faggot

>>71530959
Who counts as a composer not in the canon?

>>71530959
does John Williams count?

>>71531400
disgusting

>>71531536
Nothing has ever been published about their music

>>71531555
lol sure kid

>>71532344
Examples?

Spent half of my 50 freeleech tokens on Bach albums. Why is he so amazing?

>>71530959

Josef Suk

>>71532450
fuck off PTH/curry scum.

if hindemith was friends with morrissey he would be hindesmiths

>>71533634
maybe

>>71533778
if hindemith was figuratively handy he would be handymith

If HIndemith were into glass working then he would be Windowsmith

if hindemith walked outside in the winter he would wear hindemitts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD4kNY34AoE

I'm very new to composition and wondering if anyone here can have a look at this opening to a string quartet I've written. I'm trying to stay between the root and dominant chord, hopefully that's done succesfully. Any kind of feedback would be appreciated.

>>71531496

Theory is irrelevant.

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>>71534558
sorry forgot picture

bog

>>71534571
its beautiufl anon

>>71531400
Romantic > Classical > Modernist > Baroque > Renaissance > Contemporary > Medieval

any other ranking is objectively false

Thoughts on Jean Langlais?

https://youtu.be/lu0xLLuXTgQ?list=PLVsq55dF2rEOCTvX1yUi0Y4wjZnsDQdQD

>>71534709
Baroque=Classical IMO

>>71534571
In general, add the leading tone (B#) to the dominant chords where you want to emphasize the return to the tonic.

Clean up measure 4 and 5 some. suddenly having the viola double the cello at the octave is a bit abrupt. maybe have the viola follow the violin 1 part down a sixth? Also, the falling figure in the violin 1 part first two beats of measure 5 is very common in V-I progressions. Should you choose to change the harmony in the first half of measure 5 to a dominant chord (personally I think it sounds better that way, but you be the judge), change the underlying harmony (in half notes) in measure 4 to F#7-Bm. This lets you have a nice chromatic line (maybe in the violin 2?) going A#-B-B#-C#. Under all that, the cello in measure 5 going from G# to C# would definitely strengthen the tonal center (I assume that's what you want if you're trying to stay between the root and dominant chord).

It's fine for now, but later definitely spice up the viola and cello parts.

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>>71535011
Thanks very much. I'm uneducated enough to not understand all of this, but I've tried to interpret and apply some of what you have said; see pic related.

There's also an mp3 here http://vocaroo.com/i/s1vgFEauH3KF

Give me your top 40 favourite organists.

>>71535470
Ugh, can it be ANY number other than 40? I just don't want to be reminded of... THAT top 40. *retches*

>>71535470
Helmut

>>71530959
Cherubini.

>>71530959
Being "in the canon" is somewhat open to interpretation, all composers of all time could be considered "in the canon". If you mean the commonly played repertoire, then Martinů
legitimately underrated composer

>>71535293
Its not great but keep at it. Look at the scores of great composers, see how they handle melody, harmony and form. For string quartets look at Haydn, Beethoven, Janacek and Bartok
Also clyp.it > vocaroo in terms of quality

>>71531353
>>71532618
>>71535683
Pretty sure all of these guys are more or less canonical.

>>71530959
Jan Kalivoda, Norbert Burgmuller, Franz Lachner, Johannes Verhulst, Franz Xaver Schnyder von Wartensee, Eduard Franck, Carl Reinecke, Johann Joseph Abert, Woldemar Bargiel, Robert Volkmann, Albert Dietrich, Felix Draeseke, and Friedrich Gernsheim.

>>71535722
Define the musical canon then. Come up with something better than this idiocy
>>71532344

>>71535720
Thanks for the advice. I'll have a look at Bartok's because I've enjoyed his. I've also tried looking at Ravel's string quartet because it's probably my favourite.

>>71535781
Yep the Ravel and Debussy quartets are masterworks.
Are you studying composition? or just having a crack at it?
If you're not studying it, reading Schoenberg's "Fundamentals of Musical Composition" can give you some good ideas about how to write themes and work with form.

>>71535798
Just having a go at it, I did the basics of music theory a long time ago at school (GCSE music). I'll purchase that book, I've heard it recommended and wasn't sure if it was too advanced or not, but it sounds like it might be good for me.

>>71535810
There's a few free PDFs floating around
https://monoskop.org/images/d/da/Schoenberg_Arnold_Fundamentals_of_Musical_Composition_no_OCR.pdf

This thread is now dedicated to early Baroque.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zHWp9nEL0s

>>71536197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1XNlrb0UQg

>>71535839
not that guy but thanks for this, looks pretty interesting

> Post your favorite Bassoon Concertos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHdu7meKk00

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=_Ka289l3W0Q&video_start=0&audio=k-Tw1sqzkfk&audio_start=6

>boogie-boogie-jiggy-boogie-jiggy-boogie-jiggy-boogie

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Baroque and early classical era music is the most intellectually impressive from an academic's point of view, but as music it tends to sound a little bland and expressionless. On the other hand, romantic and late romantic era music is overly melodramatic and expressive to the point of being vulgar and artificial.

There is only one composer who managed to write intellectually sophisticated music that was still interesting, sang from the heart, but didn't whore itself out by forcing drama and theatrics like Wagner and Brahms did. The only truly great composer, for me, is Beethoven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n74kKqwWViU&t=1263s

>>71536197
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SusSQfxyMiE

>>71536939
>as music it tends to sound a little bland and expressionless
nope, you're 100% wrong.

>>71536939

Wow more empty plinky-plinky, noodling tripe, and tragicomical pianisms in a single sonata than in all of Chopin's works. How do bogbillies even pretend?

>>71537039
B O G
I
L
L
I
E
S

>>71527681
What a stupid comment. Why would you screencap this?

>>71537801

t. butthurt child psychologist feminist employed by big pharma

>Young composers edition
I costantly imagine music (sometimes in my room I'll just start conducting imagined string quartets and piano pieces in my head), but I've got no musical training.
I don't think that it is well structured (for example I'm pretty sure that the harmony is either too randomic or too derivative), but the melodies are usually original enough for me to not link them to any piece of music I've heard so far, and I'm pretty sure I've got a talent for motivic developement, since on a single theme I can spend even hours tweaking it in all shapes and forms, with very few repetitions.
How much time should I put into the craft to get something out of it? How much study is required to be able to structure this music and transcribe it?
Is it one of those things I could do in a year or two?
Also notice that I already play classical guitar at a almost virtuoso level, but my theory is completely lacking. My sight reading and solfage skills are, instead, on point.

>>71538510

Buy some theory books and some sheet paper and start writing, all the time.

>>71538600
I'm not thinking about becoming a self-taught composer, I am pretty sure that I can get to learn it with some pretty good composers and theorists in my city.
Yet I still don't know how much time and work is required to become at the very least decent, if not proficient. In a year from now I'll write full-fledged string quartets, or will I still deal with writing simple melodic lines? How hard it is to learn theory, melody and harmony?

>>71538625

Get a teacher, and practice writing all the time if you wanna learn it, that's self-evident. Start writing a string quartet right now if you want to write a string quartet, I'm not sure I understand the question.

Petzold

>>71537049
>>71537056
Your forced meme is a tired meme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79Zzyyq3oII

Which composer would you eliminate from history?

>>71539593

Mozart

>>71539593
Shostakovitch moar liek, shostablowvitch

>>71539593
All of them.

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>>71530959
Carlos Seixas, Mattheus Pipelare, Johann Caspar Kerll, Mateo Flecha, Francesco Gasparini, Antonio Bertali, Anthoni van Noordt, Giovanni Girolamo Kapsperger, Gioseffo Guami, Johann Baptist Vanhal.
>>71535722
Where do you get your music from? I remember searching for some of these composers and getting nothing.

>>71538510
> but I've got no musical training.
Ignore what everyone else suggested. They give stupid advice. Learn to play an instrument, practice until you can play the melodies in your head on your instrument of choice. Learning music theory and composition techniques is putting the cart before the horse. Composers that write their music straight down on paper are EXTREMELY RARE. Not even Mozart composed like that. He always used a fortepiano or a harpsichord to fiddle around and get a sketch of a composition tight, in playing. Think of it as piano reduction in reverse. The piano allows for most elaboration, but you can do the same thing on any instrument on which you can play chords. You can also do it on instruments that can't, but there you're limited to experimenting with the melody only.

Same advice to the other anon that posted a small composition ITT: audition your music before you write it down. Hum, whistle! Whatever.
Staff notation is not a tool used in composition per se. Unlike in painting, here the paper is not your canvas. It is a mnemonic device you use while you compose (while you hum to yourself for example, the melody will naturally change and you have a high chance of forgetting where you started with the melody -- which is why you write it down), and a storage schema after you're done. The snippet you posted is a cacophony (no offence), because, I am pretty sure, you did not audition your music. You can't simply apply some composition rules and expect to get a good result. You shouldn't even expect a mediocre result.

Music is a dynamic art. Composition =/= writing stuff in staff notation.

garbage OP, just shitpost until bump limit

>>71539559

The second comment is not me. I always put spaces between the letters like this:

B O G

I

L

L

I

E

S

See?

>>71539788

This. But mainly B*ch.

>>71539921
Please adopt a tripcode.

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Why does AoF sound so autistic on a piano?

Am I pleb for liking it on organ better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol-uN2OxEYw

Have some music and crawl out of the bog already.

>>71538600
I cannot emphasise this enough: this is imbecilic advice! Do you have perfect pitch? Then you might have a small chance in succeeding with composing like that.

Learn a fucking instrument.

It's not a fucking accident that virtually every composition course either recommends or downright makes it mandatory for you to also minor in some instrument (typically piano).

>>71534570
underrated post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsB4woyXoXE

>scriabin's marginal pieces are more musical than anything peathoven made

>>71539843
who is this qt

>>71540020
(You)

>>71540092
back to your containment thread

>>71531400
>ranking baroque in third to pretend you know your stuff
xD

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>>71531400
Modern > Romantic > Baroque > Renaissance > Contemporary > Classical > Medieval

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Modern German Neoclassical > Modern = Romantic = Baroque = Renaissance = Contemporary = Classical = Medieval

>>71540231
People still do Neoclassical? what?

>plebs underrating the Classical era
Classical > Baroque > Modern > Romantic > Contemporary > Renaissance > Medieval

remember when bogspammer went on an autistic rant?

>>71539897

>Learn to play an instrument

He already said he played "classical guitar at a virtuostic level".

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Renaissance > Medieval > Baroque > Romantic > > Classical > Modernist > Contemporary

>>71535722
Fine. I pick Pisendel.

>>71540913
>Renaissance > Baroque
Fine
>Medieval > Baroque
"No"

>>71540231
>posts worse Dettman mix
oh boy i like him a lot but he fucks up everytime he put a surprise techhouse shit

Petzold

>>71540788
Classical > Baroque > Renaissance > Modern > Romantic > Medieval > Contemporary

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>>71541123
>classical > baroque
So close and yet so far.

i like all periods equally :)

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>>71541181

Difference between Mondern and Contmeporary?

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>>71541176

>>71541181
lol
o
l

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>>71541248

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuUphbx-Tu0

Average Peathoven fans.

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>>71541299
>mfw cuckposting

>>71534571
Ok here:

1) Dynamics - You only have one mp. What volume is this piece? Think more.

2) Phrasing/bowing - You have no markings on this. How would it be played? Where do you want melodic climaxes? Think more.

3) Think of your ranges more. What's more likely to sound better at what registers? Think more.

I know that you're new and probably have never take a class, but I'm kicking your ass so that you git gud. Think more!

>>71534571
BUT WHO WAS TEMPO1?!?1/!

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>>71541026

Just my personal preference, pal.

>>71535470
Robert quinney.. one of my favourites. Honestly who knows 40 organists?

>>71529276
this

>>71529276
>>71541632

Coming right up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW-cmYEd24k&

>>71539964
organnn,......ppfpfpfppffffff.
Harpsichord or string quartett plz.
It's obviously not written for organ.

>>71541712

It doesn't appear to be written for anything since it always sounds like roiling mud.

What is a good Bach's Fugue for beginners? I just finished learning the Prelude in C major from the WTC and I'm looking for another composition one step up

>>71535470
Koopman
Walcha
Rogg
Newman
E. Power Biggs
Thiry
Bryndorf
Fagius
Richter
Lehotka

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>>71534633
>>71535011
>>71535720
>>71541385
>>71541404
see pic related for my updated string quartet. I'm trying to be at least a little more daring; this might have resulted in some "mistakes"

I know you guys don't care that much about contemporary composers but what is the best performance of Steve Reich's Drumming?

Does anyone have the complete recordings of Ignaz Friedman and willing to upload?

>>71541765
>tfw too simple minded to appreciate the art of fugue.

>>71541784
Believe me learning any fugue is way harder than that prelude. But I've heard the one in d major from WTK bk 1 is the simplest fugue he wrote.

>>71541765
>roiling mud
please please please be bait

Busch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7AZymdyjU

>>71543124

It's just a bunch of melodies on top of each other, no need to intellectualize it further.

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>>71543124
>>71543231
>no this isn't ordinary noise this is MATHEMATICAL noise

>>71543308
I sincerely hope that is not truly the way you think about it.

>>71540844
I don't buy it one bit.

How in the world does he have difficulty in composing then? He should know the damn guitar like the back of his hand by now. Am I to believe that this guy became extremely good at playing guitar (which takes years) without once trying to play a tune he'd heard here or there by ear? And seriously, I can't imagine how you'd reach the level of a "virtuoso" without acquiring any sort of transcription skills along the way. It makes no sense, even if he always did sight reading and never tried playing anything by ear.

If you can transcribe music you hear someone else play, you can transcribe music you hear in your head. That's 90% of the creative work in composing. The rest is clerical details.

>>71543402

At least people think of it in a way. Unlike bogbillies who just parrot academic garbage about ancient Greek numerological constructs they can't even hear.

>>71541765
>it always sounds like roiling mud
What. Are you guys talking about Bach's Art of Fugue or some contemporary "atonal" composition? I'm confused.

>>71543402

I was halfbaiting. That is what it is if you boil it down, though.

>>71541765
>>71543544
Post your favourite composer.

>>71543635

But Art of Fugue IS aesthetically atonal. The ploppy pitch porridge that characterizes so many Schoenberg pieces has its origin in Bog's music.

>>71543733

I mean I'm sure Bog wasn't the first to do it, but he was definitely the one responsible for its perpetuation.

>>71543733
I'm not confused any more. You're only baiting.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight, bogbillies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0_JGO2PtQ

>>71543465
>How in the world does he have difficulty in composing then?
Guitar is way more limited than piano, wich means that most of the time I can play 1 or 2 voices at best. Since I was talking mostly about piano sonatas and string quartets the guitar is a completely uneffective instrument.

I can transcribe the melody bar after bar using a guitar, but that means that I always have to interrupt the stream of consciousness that is the music that I imagine, always with the risk of forgetting the later bars.

I know that old composer could just sit in front of a empty sheet of paper and write furiously what they were imagining. This is what I'd love to know how to do: to transcribe as fast as possible, without the initial help of an instrument (wich, in this case, is utterly unadequate).
>I can't imagine how you'd reach the level of a "virtuoso" without acquiring any sort of transcription skills along the way.
I don't see why is that. So far I have only read arpeggios, scales and entire pieces, but I have never studied them. Unfortuntely this is the education that my teachers gave me, and unfortunately I thought about becoming a composer a bit too late.
I'm asking how much time will it take me to solve this lacking of mine.

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>Universe 2
>the 1849 Dresda uprising succeeds
>complete revolution

>Wagner becomes a important politican and write the German national anthem and lots of civil and religious music from a place of power

To be honest we have missed out on Wagner.

>>71544064

>Guitar is way more limited than piano, wich means that most of the time I can play 1 or 2 voices at best

Wrong.

>Since I was talking mostly about piano sonatas and string quartets the guitar is a completely uneffective instrument.

Wrong.

>(wich, in this case, is utterly unadequate).

Wrong.

Stop making excuses for yourself and start composing, if that is what you want to do.

>I'm asking how much time will it take me to solve this lacking of mine.

It is a study that will take you a lifetime, so get going.

>>71544395

>>Guitar is way more limited than piano, wich means that most of the time I can play 1 or 2 voices at best
>Wrong.

I have already explained to you what are the limitations of guitar. I can, slowly enough, compose and transcribe something on guitar, but there is no way I'll be able to play the music I'm imagining on that instrument (and regardless, I've noticed that composing with a guitar lead me to make many choices based almost entirely on my hand position).
I know that I'm already able to compose something, but I'd be more interested in being able to transcribe everything from my head to a sheet of paper without having to stop every 1-2 bars.

>It is a study that will take you a lifetime, so get going.
Come on, I was talking about basic proficiency. Being able to sit down in front of a score and directly transcribe what am I imagining on the sheet of paper.
How much time does it take to do that. Do I have to do ear training?
That's the only thing I'm asking.

>>71544473

I play guitar too and compose myself, you are just making excuses. Stop it. There is no problem with composing on the guitar, and if you really feel hindered then learn the piano then.

>Come on, I was talking about basic proficiency.

Several years.

>Do I have to do ear training?

Yes, jesus christ.

>>71544064
>I know that old composer could just sit in front of a empty sheet of paper and write furiously what they were imagining

No, they couldn't. This is fantasy. Beethoven, Bach, Brahms... you name him. Almost none of the greats wrote music like that. Most sat diligently in front of a keyboard with a quill and paper nearby. One notable composer that did *at times* simply write it all out straight is Berlioz ('tis why so much of his music is so damn weird in parts). But that is usually the approach of theorists, which is very algorithmic, and their shit doesn't end up being good music most of the time.

>that means that I always have to interrupt the stream of consciousness that is the music that I imagine

There is no workaround for this anon. Unless you have perfect pitch you will pretty much never be able to simply write it all down straight from memory. Maybe you get a couple of bars right, but, even if you a acquire a really good feel for relative pitch, you'll almost certainly always go off track, hearing music in your head in one key and writing it in another without even noticing. That's fine if you're writing music for one voice in just intonation or some shit, but most of the time you'll end up with an abomination that sounds, on reading, very different from what you'd imagine you wrote down.

>>71543644
Probably chopin.

>>71543733
It's d minoryou fag, just like your d is minor

>>71543733
Atonal..., wtf are you talking about? It's in d minor and modulates to different keys. That's not atonal.

>>71541712
>Keyboard work
>Written by an organist
>Long pedal notes a piano physically can't sustain
hmmmm I wonder what keyboard he would have wanted it played on

>>71544519
>Almost none of the greats wrote music like that
Well, Beethoven did compose away from the piano. I remember that in a entry of his conversations book he told a student to never compose in a room where there is a piano in it.
Also I was thinking about Schumann, Schubert and Shostakovich too, who both did what I'd love to be able to do, wich is to frantically write the music that I've got in my head with perfect clarity. Of those 4 only Beethovne and Shostakovich had perfect pitch, and Schumann never even had formal training.

>>71544518
>I play guitar too and compose myself, you are just making excuses.
How do you compose music for a string quartet on a guitar without having to stop every few bars? How do you compose music on a piano sonatas without going to a tremendously slow pace, and without having to imagine most of the note since the range of classical guitar is so limited? And what if I want to write a symphony?

There is no way around it, I'm pretty sure that I'm better than you at playing guitar, so trust me: it's not an instrument for composer (and its repertoire just prove my speculation).

>>71544949
[memespoiler]none since it was private music for studying. Also rubato would make it playable on piano.[/memespoiler]

>>71544949
Read leonhardt's arguments, pretty logical if you ask me. Especially: "Finally, since the bass voice in The Art of Fugue occasionally rises above the tenor, and the tenor becomes the "real" bass, Leonhardt deduces that the bass part was not meant to be doubled at 16-foot pitch, thus eliminating the pipe organ as the intended instrument, leaving the harpsichord as the most logical choice."

Either it was written for harpsichord or for random instruments that were available at the moment.

>>71527681
I made that Place Beyond the Pines feel guy pic

>>71544994

>How do you compose music for a string quartet on a guitar without having to stop every few bars?

On paper, or in sibelius or some other software.

>How do you compose music on a piano sonatas without going to a tremendously slow pace

Every composition is composed at a tremendously slow pace.

>I'm pretty sure that I'm better than you at playing guitar

Yeah okay, fuck you too. How do you know this? Have you ever heard me play? Is this your default assumption you have when talking to other musicians? Someone needs to beat some humility into you. You keep asking silly questions on how to compose and beginner questions on "how long will it take", never ask your silly questions in this thread again.

>>71545035
There is a part in the Contrapunctus XI that can only be played on the organ, so, exactly like the WTC, it was not written for a single instrument.
The Contrapunctus I, instead, was a exercise written for a Bach's student, and only later expanded in the Art of Fugue.
That said the Art of Fugue was written for a club of musical theorists, so chances are that it was never intended to be played on a specific instruments.

My opinion is that any instrument that can valorize counterpoint is fair game.

>>71544994
I doubt you're the next Shoeman, let alone the next Schubert. If I can use a mandolin to write music for a small (shitty) indie rock band, you can use a fucking guitar to write music for a string quartet. I'm beginning to think the other anon is right: you're just making excuses.

>>71545115
>There is a part in the Contrapunctus XI that can only be played on the organ
Please tell us which part.
>like the WTC, it was not written for a single instrument.
what

>>71545115
Well yes I mostly agree, I don't think Bach was terribly concerned about those unplayable passages. I think he would have played it on harpsichord when there were no musician present. But other than that it was most likely to be written for random instruments.
I don't think it is a good composition to play on the organ, the reverb of a giant church ruins the counterpoint when the registration is too loud.

>>71545082
>How do you know this? Have you ever heard me play?
Becuse I'm a excellent guitarist, and you're obviously completely unaware of its musical limitations. Chances are that you don't know how hard it is to play even the simplest sonata in a reduced form on guitar.

>You keep asking silly questions on how to compose and beginner questions on "how long will it take", never ask your silly questions in this thread again.
It's not a silly question, I just asked how much time would it take to become proficient at transcribing music, given that I'm already proficient on sightreading.
At this point I'll just assume that you don't really know how to answer this question, hence the generic advices wich had not anything to do with what was asked.
Yes, I know that I can slowly compose with a guitar, but that's not the skill I was inquiring on.

>>71545141
>I doubt you're the next Shoeman, let alone the next Schubert
A man has to dream, my friend.

>If I can use a mandolin to write music for a small (shitty) indie rock band
Wich is a completely different task. Pick any Mozart string quartet, look at the score and tell me if that's as easy as a task as composing indie music.
The music I'm imagining is far too complex and there are far too many interactions between teh voices for me to just improvise it on a guitar.
Regardless, that's not the point, since we both know that the skill I'm talking about can be developed, so there is nothing wrong in asking informations about it to people who may have alredy undergone that training.

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>>71544997
>rubato
has nothing to do with pedal notes, and would butcher the voices. There's usually only 1 place you can add rubato in a Bach fugue, and that's in the final cadence.

>>71545153
not him put pic related is an example of one of the pedal notes. I forget which fugue its from

>>71545153
Sorry, I've checked (on wikipedia, I know, low brow) and it was the Contrapuncti XII and XIII who can't be played without a sustaining pedal.

On WTC the ending of the E minor fugue can't be played on harpsichord, but it is possible to do so on organ. Every other prelude and fugue can be played on normal keyboards.

>>71545216

>Becuse I'm a excellent guitarist, and you're obviously completely unaware of its musical limitations

Not excellent enough to not get hindered by it's musical limitations, though. No "excellent" guitarists ever call themselves excellent, and excellent guitarists know how truly bad they are compared to the greats and thus never brags like you. Chances are you should suck my dick and stop being such an arrogant twat when you keep asking the most asinine truly idiotic questions time and time again after having them answered every time.

Maybe approach us with some humility if you actually want some help? If you're so excellent, why do you even need advice? Why are you not asking your teacher this? Our answers are generic because your questions are generic. "how long will it take until i can write the music in my head on paper?" How the hell should we know? Seems like you would rather ask questions and be pompous when you don't get a clear cut answer than actually practice the skill.

>>71545216
>Wich is a completely different task.
So what? I'm neither classically trained, nor a 'virtuoso'. All things commensurate, I'm doing fine for now. You have a better skill-set than me right off the bat and yet here you are, asking stupid questions and crying like a bitch. If you were some kind prodigy you wouldn't be asking /mu/stards about this shit for fuck's sake.

>>71545301
>No "excellent" guitarists ever call themselves excellent
In a world as competitive as this, in my opinion, there is no place for modesty, especially if you're a musician. I'm still no Segovia, but I'm still 20 and I'm improving by the day. I have no doubt that in a few years from now I will be able to get called ''maestro'' by fellow guitarists. Suck my dick.

>Maybe approach us with some humility if you actually want some help?
I initially did, I may have been a bit too vitriolic but let's be honest, you're answer was patronizing and completely uninformed.

>Why are you not asking your teacher this?
I will in a few days from now, he is currently on a tour and I don't want to disturb him.

>Our answers are generic because your questions are generic. "how long will it take until i can write the music in my head on paper?" How the hell should we know?
If you have no idea on how this training should look like I don't see why would you feel the need to answer to that post of mine. You obviously do not posses that skill, wich means that your opinion on the subject is as worthless as mine.

>You have a better skill-set than me right off the bat and yet here you are
What I'm saying is that no matter how good my technique is most of these things are simply unplayable on guitar, and I'm pretty sure that my string quartets would be unplayable on a piano too. Hence why am I asking advices on transcribing mentally music.
It's not a stupid question.

>Implying the Art of Fugue wasn't intended for the electric guitar

>>71545459
>implying the Art of FUgue wasn't intended for vocaloid

>>71545433

>In a world as competitive as this, in my opinion, there is no place for modesty
>but I'm still 20

Just give up, you will never make it with this attitude. People in music hate people with this attitude and no one will want to work with you, be humble or GTFO.

I would honestly break your fingers for being such a bratty twat if you were here in person.

>>71545470
>implying the art of fugue wasn't intended for a Mongolian throat singing ensemble

>>71545508
>Just give up, you will never make it with this attitude.
We will see. Yet, if you want an explanation for that ''I'm a excellent guitarist'', it was intended to answer your doubts on my technical skills and my knowledge of the limitations of this instrument. I'm fully aware of those, and this is why I'm thinking about learning to transcribe music without the aid of any instrument.

>I would honestly break your fingers for being such a bratty twat if you were here in person.
Sure thing, kiddo.

>>71545563

There are at least a million 7 year old children in China alone that are better than you ever will be. Always remember that.

>>71545588
I value my artistic sense and intuition more than my technique (wich I'm not ignoring anyway).

>>71545702

I get it now, this was all a ruse so you could talk about yourself. I should've realized this way sooner.

Also learn how to spell which, maestro.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2jxgvcGjfo

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>guitarfags shat up the thread

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A bit off topic, but do any of you know of any albums with sung Greek poetry accompanied by instruments?

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so what's so great about beethoven's diabelli variations?

>>71547030
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsxWZN5WXns

Dellapiccola's Canti Greci. Highly harmonic and melodic serialism on Saffo's fragmentas.

>>71547166
Whats so great about variations in general?

Even the Goldbergs bore me, as well as Brahms dreadful Handel one.

>>71547238
*Liriche Greche

>>71547166
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDrOdCtnkfs

autism

>>71547166
The composition is remarkable, and it is also one of the last Beethoven's works, therefore everyone attribute to it full deliberacy and mastery of the content since, you know, we're talking about late Beethoven music.
I have to admit that I find more pleasurable to read the scores rather than to the listen to the music. Studying them is always delightful.

>>71547246
Variations just seem like showing off to me, classical equivalent of guitar noodling. I do like Rzewski's "The People..." though.

>>71547330
>I have to admit that I find more pleasurable to read the scores rather than to the listen to the music.
this. I don't particularly like listening to Op. 131 but it's amazing to look at

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Dude
Imagine this
*hits bong*
every bell tower in every European city is now substituted with a set of 12 bells
and composers everyday can write 12 (or 15, depending on where you live) different themes for when the bell has to ring every hour
*lights a spliff*
Wouldn't that be cool, Jamie?

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>>71547444

DUDE CHECK OUT BEETHOVEN'S 3RD

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>>71527681

Hi greenanons, redanon here. 8mu is slow af, so I thought you guys might be able to answer a question for me.

Do any fragments of the opera Hitler was writing in Vienna still exist?

>>71547669
possibly, but it's almost certainly garbage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVN1B-tUpgs
I'm really pleb.
Who is the goat post-minimalistic composer?

>>71547863
Arnoldo Schoenbergo

Chadwick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJuiwg_JE6I

>>71548050
FUCKING CHADS OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>71547166
A very impressive mutation of an incredibly shit theme.

>>71527681

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3ILbnHhAzk

>stop hearing camp grenada song

>>71547651
>tfw you don't live in a universe in wich chads are notoriously classical music buffs

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French Impressionism > Everything else

>>71548581
I agree! Which is your favourite 2 hour YouTube best of compilation?

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>>71548581
Ravel > Debussy

bruh, if you can't even write music for 1 or 2 voices how tf you gonna be a composer

git gud

>>71548581
>>71548666
No Debate, Just stop Insulting two of the greatest composers in the world after Brahms and Wagner

>>71548631
I mostly just listen to them all individually, I've got a 10 CD box set of Debussy that I'll go through every once in awhile.

>>71548666
Ravel and Debussy are both musical gods, I listen to Ravel when I feel more Spanish and Debussy when I feel more depressed and shitty.

>>71548669
Not that guy, but now I'm curious. If I think about music I can hear only one voice, and can imagine abstractly the harmony.
Are composer able to do better than that? Do they have special brains that can process multiple voices at once?

For example, how did Beethoven wrote works as massive as the Ninth Symphony in his later years, when he was basically deaf? And how was he able to orchestrate them?

Petzold

>>71548765
>Debussy when I feel more depressed and shitty.

>those plebs that don't realize that Ravel was more emotional than Debussy and Debussy was more abstract than Ravel

>>71549102
Who are you quoting?

>>71549102
How so?

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>guitarfags

>>71549229
that guy is autistic and clearly overestimating himself but being an animefag is much, much worse

kys stupid weeb

>>71549329
>hurr

>>71549329
>implying that's not just a random reaction
t. butthurt guitarfag.

Do you really need to find flaws in other people to feel better? How cute.

>>71549329
>>71549411
>>71549425
Where do I go to escape posters like this?

>>71549472
From whence you came, Reddit

>>71549486
oh fug, my feelings...

To the Mahler senpaitachi here, what's missing from this list?

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/alimal/a-guide-to-gustav-mahler/

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>>71550027
Personally I prefer this recording for his piano rolls.

The quality is a bit better and they even rolled it on his own piano. No singing, though.

>>71550110
nice addition

>>71550027
>>71550110
Also, for completion's sake, you could add the chamber arrangements for the 4th Symphony and Das Lied. The Das Lied had its first movement sketched up by Schoenberg and later completed by Riehn (Webern did a full transcription, but it has never been found). The 4th symphony was arranged by Stein, also in Schoenberg's circle. Both are quite good.

Not to mention a few alternative versions, such as a Das Lied which utilizes a baritone instead of an alto (Mahler approved, and the poem for the text is two MEN talking anyway), or Mahler's preferred boy-soprano in the finale of the 4th. Minor things, but still interesting.

Here, I uploaded a few of these curiosities:
https://mega.nz/#!GccDXLSD!3G2J4d4_gfjX2Fsa5boR9T3qf7t0dF689EKkHpbd6Ps

Excuse some of the lazy filenames. The proper metadata is all there, though.

The chamber arrangements have excellent notes by Kenneth Slowik, who is a very informed interpreter of these works.

>>71550984
downloading

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>>71550984
>Webern did a full transcription, but it has never been found

>>71550984
Good stuff, there's also a Schoenberg chamber arrangement of Songs of a Wayfarer.

I had enjoyed the Herreweghe recording of Schoenberg's Das Lied but the singing on this one is excellent

Thanks for the boy soprano recording, I've been looking for it

About adding a section of arrangements on Mahler's music, I would like to but I have to do a bit of research into how many people have made arrangements on his music (or even naming pieces in his honor)

>>71550984
Wow, this chamber arrangement of this fourth is great, I hadn't listened to it, it sounds like Mozart

About the variations in instruments and voice ranges, yes that's a good idea there's also variation in movement orders like the 6th where some versions have the 2rd an 3rd movement switched, or the First symphony with the Blumine movement

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This is also interesting

>>71527681
am i the only one who loves the golden spinning wheel?

>>71551987
yes

>>71551580
Yeah, it's a shame because he was an incredibly good arranger.

>>71551584
I believe there was a more recent arrangement of the 5th, but I don't know if it was any good. I might've even heard it, but I cannot recall. Probably wasn't in a Mahler mood if I did.

As far as composition dedications, I can't think of anything off the bat.

>>71551727
Yeah. Schoenberg's SFPMP (Society for Private Musical Performances) produced a lot of great arrangements for all sorts of music. The 4th in particular lends itself very well to the chamber approach. Slowik's performances are very well done too. I raved about these a few months ago--heard it on Youtube or spotify or something, and instantly went and bought it.

>About the variations in instruments and voice ranges, yes that's a good idea there's also variation in movement orders like the 6th where some versions have the 2rd an 3rd movement switched, or the First symphony with the Blumine movement
Yeah. Another thing is the sliding glissando sometimes utilized in the 4th movement of the 3rd symphony. Some conductors do it, some don't. It can first be heard in Goldschmidt's recording from 1959 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwjES7yS8_c)

I believe the Bychkov already does this.

>>71552034
Listening to the soprano boy Das himmlische Leben, he sounds kinda scared haha

>>71553020
I am becoming aroused help

>>71553066
gay

>>71553020
I would like to hear a version with one of those whistle voice kids, the kid on Nanut's version sounds a bit mature

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Meme?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H4pNFF5nBM

>>71544582
>>71544678
>aesthetically atonal

What did I mean by this?

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>>71553574
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jyaDx-0YJE

https://youtu.be/iQns9fs-H6k?list=PLKEH6sQuQOAcL1VThffLhfQweoYWjftAM

Domenico Zipoli (17 October 1688 – 2 January 1726) was an Italian Baroque composer who worked and died in Córdoba (Argentina). He became a Jesuit in order to work in the Reductions of Paraguay where he taught music among the Guaraní people. He is remembered as the most accomplished musician among Jesuit missionaries.

Tennstadt is so underrated...This is the best 9th.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZNhKEf_yOY

>>71554455
Too sturm and drangy

Dohnanyi's still my favorite
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r4refhGVOs

>>71553578
literally what did you mean by that

petzold did 1750

>>71554552

Bog and Schoenberg share the same aesthetic - amelodic, clanging, gargling, amorphous, choppy, sterile, etc.

The fact that one corpus is "tonal" and the other is "atonal" is not relevant to the argument even it wasn't a borderline-formality.

HIP Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUK9bo-87g

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Convince me to like the Chopin piano concerti, /mu/.

>>71555823
Why would you? Chopin is shit.

>>71556022
*Most Chopin is shit

I was very taken by the Ballades, the F minor Fantasie, the Barcarolle, and a few of the later Polonaises including the Polonaise-Fantasie. I just don't like the concerti.

>>71556022
the 4th ballade, the first movement of the B minor sonata and the F sharp minor polonaise are breddy gud if you ask me

>>71556039
>>71556060
fuck off back to plebbit

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>>71556072
>i only listen to music of the middle ages

Moondog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwBGtgoVPLs

>>71556022
>>71537049

>>71556481

Neutral Milk Stockhausen?

Motherfucking Itzhak Perlman

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>>71557688

Stop listening to jews.

>>71530959
Mozart

>>71536939
>Baroque and early classical era music is the most intellectually impressive from
looooooool
except for a couple of genius composers it's not. being intellectually impressive was not its social function at all.

>>71558302
further proofers are the worst

well after wagnerites obviously

>>71558343
>implying Mozart's best works are not nearly forgotten

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpGWu7VJbU0

Did you guysh know that Wagner'sh Ring Cycschle is actually about GOMMUNISM?

>>71558368
slavoj did nothing wrong

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>>71558357
Sure, who's this guy with multiple complete works boxsets.

>>71530959
Gabriel Pierne

>>71558368
man I hate this guy so much
what a fucking hack

>>71558376
only 10% are popular in academic circles

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>>71558287
Stop listening to neckbeards.

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>>71558399
Further proof brother, fight the power.

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>>71558422

Stop listening.

Fact: Mozart is the only composer worth listening to.

>>71558481
the voice of reason

>>71558423
haha their moving tge goalposts

>>71547030
not really sung and the poem is only pretending to be greek, but still great
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVFeYJx4i5Y

>>71547863
gavin bryars maybe idk

>>71558481
your retraded

>>71548581
this

Will there ever again be any musician at the level of Bach, Mozart or Beethoven, from these days (20th-21st century)?

It feels like we are going in the wrong direction, taking a step back. Who has ever surpassed Bach and Beethoven in improvisation? Who has ever surpassed Liszt's performance?

>>71559044
Maybe. Who knows? It may be less probable, since all of those famous musicians received a kind of education that is unlikely to happen nowadays, but it's not impossible. Joanna Newsom is an example of a musician only possible because of her "unusual" education. Maybe the next Bach is being groomed right now. One may only wonder

>>71559044

No. The conditions and environments needed to create such geniouses do not exist today.

>>71559103

Newsom is nowhere near the level of say Bach though. She's a slightly above average pop musician.

>>71559103
>>71559112
That's pretty depressing when you think about it. But yeah, these are completely different times. But damnit, does this mean this field has already reached its peak? It's hard to accept that.

>>71559248
I didn't compare those two, but to say she's just slightly above average is an understatement. She's proficient at the harp and able to write long, non-generic songs accompanied by long, complex poetry. I'd say she isn't comparable to any average pop musician, albeit not being comparable to the genius classical musician as well.

>>71559112
This

One of the most depressing realities to accept,

Post Modernism, Sceularism, and the world wars killed high art

>>71559304
I don't know dude. Maybe decades from now somebody will insert new life into classical music. Maybe some rich people will create a colony of classical art lovers that will educate great composers. It's really kind of useless to think about it.

>>71559044
Wait until I start publishing the scores in my diary, toby honest

>>71559112
This, but it possible to reverse the effects of >>71559354

>>71559318

Fair enough. I like her too.

>>71559354

>Secularism

This I think is one of the big pieces of the puzzle. Great artists several hundred years ago actually believed they were doing "god's work" or something similar in their craft, that they were doing it for the glory of their god or something similar. They believed there was something divine about what they are doing, thus they could push themselves to new heights, and sit for days on end honing their craft. What motivation do we have to compete with this today? Money, power, recognition, wealth? It's nothing compared to actually believing what you were doing was for God himself.

>>71559304

The west in general imo has reached it's peak long ago, we are in decline in every aspect except material comfort. The quality of art, architecture, cultural influence, wealth, even birthrates are below replacement level, our people are slowly fading away. The time of the western empire is coming to an end, it's just that rising sophistication of technology and medicine and so on has increased so much that we don't realize it.

I heard Bach's Johannespassion live yesterday. Is it good?

>>71548781
composers usually can conceive of all the vertical possibilities of harmony without the aid of having four hands to play all the notes on a piano. many composers can improvise multi-voice fugues and other dense contrapuntal music. beethoven knew what it was going to sound like because he knew of the particular qualities of the instruments in the orchestra. he knows how to score the orchestra to, for example, support a melodic line.

>Puccini
Why do people pretend he's good?

>>71560268
>implying that La Boheme is not as good as the best Mozart's operas

>>71560151
>many composers can improvise multi-voice fugues and other dense contrapuntal music
Are you serious? In that case, how can I learn that?

>tfw you ain't gonna make it

>>71559044
>Who has ever surpassed Bach and Beethoven in improvisation?
Art Tatum and Albert Ayler.

>>71560320
It is not.

>>71527681
how come no one has ever taken down these links? what kind of pirate magick is this?

>>71560347
>Albert Ayler.
not st john coltrane? or mingus?

>>71560268
No one pretends he's good

>>71559890
Don't you have ears?

>>71560579
why are you so mean? there is no need. if you have superior knoweldge, share it, otherwise dont participate in a thread.

>>71560579
>>71560671
It's a /v/ meme, guys.

Anyway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2accwGEaU

It's probably not a bad thing I stopped pursuing piano performance after all. I wouldn't be able to improv on I-IV-V in 60bpm if my life depended on it. It hurts like hell, though.

>>71560743
/mu/ meme*

What's the best performance of Tchaiks' 6th symphony?

>>71560862
Mravinsky, Pletnev, Karajan

Farinel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luphl3c4zQA

>>71560862
Mravinsky, Mengelberg, Monteux

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>>71560743
>I wouldn't be able to improv on I-IV-V

>judging the improvisation for its virtuosity
>not criticizing it because it is harmonically and melodically worthless

We truly have deserved a century devoid of good tonal music. It's on us.

>>71560671
I'm just saying that it's something for you to decide. If you listened to the composition surely you have formed some sort of opinion about it?

>>71559890
Form your own opinion, child.

>>71561635
>>71561798
All these people falling for the bait.

SAD.

>>71561836
>I was just pretending to be retarded

>Wagner was self-taught, and admittely he only read a book on basso continuo, studied 2 years in a conservatory (starting extremely late, when he was 17)

Okay, now I'm curious: how actually insightful was Wagner's craft? Was he really a master of harmony and melody, or was he just using mostly his intuition and musicality, like Musorgskij?

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>>71531400
>>71534709
>>71540147
The fuck happened to these threads

Classical > Baroque > Renaissance > Modern > Medieval > Contemporary > Romantic

>>71562209
>contemporary and modern better than romantic
You guys got meme'd by a meme. To disparage so dogmatically anything that is romantic is just a proof of that: the only way you guys are able to judge music is by linking it to their respective audiences. Enjoy your herd, sheep.

>>71562259
Literally the only good "romantic" music is classicist.

>>71562361
Name a few romantic composers you appreciate.

>>71562259
>the only way you guys are able to judge music is by linking it to their respective audiences
Are you saying that Romantic fans are shit? Because that's true and you just shot yourself in the foot.

>>71562068
All great composers have to be at least partly self-taught and self-driven but 2 years in a conservatory is self-taught? That sounds like typical wagnerian self-mythologising.

>>71562425
I'm saying that popular audiences have nothing to do with the intrinsic value of the music that is being experienced.
If that were to be true Beethoven's best sonata would be the Moonlight Sonata, and Bach would be pretty much worthless.

>>71562456
In his autobiography mentions just a few piano lessons when he was a kid and those 2 years in conservatory, in which, from externa account, we know that he did not excel.
Yet, from his work I always get the impression that he actually was extremely knowledgeable in every element of music, from harmony to counterpoint.
That's why I was asking that question. Is this impression true, or was Wagner's music revolutionary only because he was picking on low-hanging fruit that were never picked for social and artistic conventions?

>>71562458
So you're saying that Romanticism is good despite its fans being trash?
Beethoven isn't Romantic btw.

>>71562515
In fact I was mentioning the classical audiences, who rarely gravitates towards the works of real value, preferring instead a few, safe but brilliant works by composer they know everything about.
With Bach instead I was talking about the fact that the Baroque audience is pathetic at best in its numbers, which is why in most cities listening to Bach is rare.

General audiences don't mean anything when talking about the music itself. The common Schumann (for example) fan is not as nearly as sophisticated as Schumann himself, and you should know it.

>>71562571
>who rarely gravitates towards the works of real value
Because there are none in the classical era lfmao

>>71562589
Damn, I thought you were being serious.
>tfw you can't have decent debates not even on /classical/
maybe /mu/ as a whole is not worth it.

>>71562615
>debates
LMAO fucking fedora tipping retard. Your stupid opinions won't sway anyone since no one here is prepared to change their own opinions. Fucking retard should've realized this before logging onto 4chan.

>>71562638
>implying that I want to debate to change other people's mind
Debating is for testing your own opinions, you dummy.

>>71562674
Head back to class now sweetie lmfao

>>71562698
I sincerely hope your mom dies tonight, not in her sleep

How come no piano concertos have a slow and subdued first movement? There are plenty of symphonies and piano sonatas like that.

What are some good waltz similar to Shostakovich's 2nd?

https://youtu.be/cFr77RTi38k?t=49s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12MCIbOFCN8

>>71560504
>implying anyone gives a shit about classical piracy

>>71562775
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCoLUMURunQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_uSOnm8D2A

Petzold

>>71562495
>>71562068
That's interesting, I want to know more. I know it's sad as fuck, but I always feel good when I realize not everyone started at the age of 5, I guess it gives me some hope (although I do have years of formal education, but I started composing/producing my own music fairly late), even though it doesn't matter much.

>>71563130
I'm pretty sure that most of your favourite composers learnt what was really important to them in their 20s and 30s.
Beethoven considerd trash all of his early opus', Schumann started composing in his 20s, there is no worthwhile fugue in the first 30 years of Bach's life, Wagner read his first music theory book when he was 17 and Hector Berlioz, who was himself a late starter, never even learned how to play an instrument properly (although we know that he was proficient enough to give guitar lessons to kids).

There are, in fact, very few composers who were already fully formed in their 20s. Get more hopeful my friend, and don't lose sight on your craft and spirit.

>>71563297
Appreciate it, man.

>>71560347
>Ayler
lol

>>71563297
The only example really is Mozart, who also happens to be objectively the greatest composer of all time, and really the only composer worth listening to.

>>71563533
Schubert is another example, but his training wasn't that formal at all. It's one of those 2-3 occasions in which we can talk about true innate talent.

>>71563533
The only comparable prodigy I can think of is Enescu, who was, I believe, the youngest ever admitted to his conservatory, and he was a virtuoso conductor, violinist, violist, cellist, and pianist.

>>71563663
>Enescu
He wasn't a great composer though, only a good one.