Lest we forget.

>Rush
>good

>Poison
>bad

Fuck off pleb

i'm actually more disappointed by him dissing joy division and the smiths

>>71513503
I hear this guy hates Prog Rock.
Is that true?

>>71513527
certainly hope it is because prog sucks
i know he generaly hates metal and jazz fusion, not sure about the rest

>>71513597
>i know he generaly hates metal and jazz fusion
>he hates jazz fusion

....I need to check something.

>>71513597
Huh he hates everything I like. I must be a massive pleb.

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THAT'S IT??
That's all the fucking Herbie he reviewed?

That's hardly anything!

he liked punk, and when hip hop came along he loved it

all nicki minaj records are As to him

this is simply an old man who wants to be hip like the cool kids by listening to the "transgressive" music of said time

>>71513673
he's simply an old man who doesn't like pretentious douchebags

>obnoxious Randian fantasies for fedora-wearing neckbeards versus a catchy, well-crafted pop rock album

>>71513692
but he is one

>>71513692
are you unaware that by doing what he does he's behaving in the same way

>>71513705
>>71513712

how so, explain please?

>>71513673
NYC was the cradle of punk and hip-hop, that's probably why he liked them. Most New Yorkers are like that. They don't realize that a world exists west of the Hudson River.

>>71513714
Overly-ideological primitivism is just as pretentious as overly-ideological sophistication when it comes to music.

>>71513714
he's a post-modern faggot

>>71513738
i think you are making a grave error by implying prog is sophisticated music

>>71513714
he thinks that self aware or ironic vulgar music is more "honest" than any music that tries to take itself seriously by being just a bit ambitious

>>71513749
Yes. Christgau was pretty much shaped by mid-20th century postmodernism and he believes that metal and prog are retrogressive forms of music that pull us backward into Wagnerian drama that rock-and-roll was there to do away with.

>>71513772
examples please?
what is in your perception ambitious and serious music?

>>71513771
I didn't mean to say that, but proggers fancy themselves sophisticated

>>71513673
>>71513692

He's a guy with a clearly defined taste. Why is /mu/ so upset about that?

>>71513805
in other words, he's a nu-male

>>71513808
i don't have to, he said it himself by talking about art and progressive rock, heavy metal etc. it doesnt matter what i believe is polished music, because these are the genres he judges to be like that

>>71513805
oh my god, that is simply so accurate

he's the guy that ditched erudite music for jazz, then rock for punk, and now hip-hop

quite forward thinking eh? lmao

>>71513822
i'm not upset about it, that's what i like most about christgau
i may not always agree with his judgement on certain albums, but he's not a phony trying to make himself appear omniscient like some of the guys on this board who are clearly jerking off while listening to pretentious shit like hail to the thief

>>71513772
Having a sense of humor is important to him, to this end, although he normally dislikes metal, he was ok with Van Halen and Motorhead because they had funny songs. He also gave Reign In Blood a B+ because he got a kick out of it.

On the other hand, stuff like Metallica's TBA are pretty much everything he dislikes in music.

>>71513849
he has made exceptions regarding albums in every genre he dislikes, especially art rock

i really hope we stop using "progressive" catchphrase soon, it's such a misnomer

>>71513869
If anything, he's at least consistent in the sense that he doesn't give black artists a pass solely because they're black. There's a lot of hip-hop like Ice Cube he disliked for being misogynistic and not funny enough. Most Millenial P4k critics will eat up any shit a rapper puts out because they're afraid to call them out.

>>71513822
he probably thinks that rap is ironic, it isn't

>>71513919
from the review of TPAB
>It's a strong, brave, effective bid to reinstate hip-hop as black America's CNN...

>>71513805
Metal and prog were born in Europe, the land of Beethoven and Wager. It shouldn't be surprising that they incorporated classical music traditions into rock.

>>71513913
>he's at least consistent in the sense that he doesn't give black artists a pass solely because they're black
you must be joking right, because thats exactly what he does

>>71513934
>incorporated classical music traditions into rock
i'm baffled by anyone who doesnt think these two are disjunctive entities better left alone

>>71513952
i must apologize, but i am a funny guy
i really like it when people provide evidence for the claims they make

>>71513933
when I said it I meant more like nicki minaj and young thug, not kendrick or actually good rappers

>>71513952
There's a ton of black artists that he's trashed including a few sacred cows like Tupac.

>>71513986
there you go >>71514005

but then i don't like spoonfeeding, so just go to his not-since-the-90s-updated website and simply research any mainstream hippity hoppity album from the 2010s

>>71514005
>>71513933
he also gave tlop an A- and it fucking sucks, only a handful of good tracks

>>71514025
probably because he took himself just a bit seriously, unlike those nicki minaj bangers

xgau is literally post-irony before it became a thing

>>71514005
as for nicki minaj it may be true that he simply finds her funny

but jesus, thugger is one of the best modern rappers, lol

>>71513967
>>71513934
AFAIK Christgau wrote a column about this once. He said that because rock was born out of America's roots music like blues and country, Europeans could not properly figure out how it's supposed to work and instead they merely incorporated their own indigenous music traditions. In that sense, it's true because a lot of prog bands like Genesis did utilize folk music from the British Isles.

>>71514048
I'm not really a big young thug fan, but I guess you do have a point there.

>>71514046
Actually I think he just didn't get Pac's Los Angeles background. He did like Biggie because New Yaaaawwwk.

He never really did like most California hippie artists either for same reason, he didn't "get" the whole culture they were rooted in.

>>71514081
so by both guesses he ends up being close minded

sounds good enough for me

>>71514081
>California
not true considering that Pavement is one of his favourite bands

DESU most of the early rock critics were all New Yorkers which is why they glorified Lou Reed and the New York Dolls. They "got" those guys, but Black Sabbath were mystifying to them.

>>71514132
Depends. He also loved Sleater-Kinney who are from the Pacific Northwest, a long, long way from New York.

>>71514144
and therefore more easily to dismiss as pretentious garbage

truly a clever guy eh?

>>71514081
i agree that he rated Pac too poorly
but overally i think that Biggie >> Pac

Tupac is overrated shit anyway but the whole martyred hero thing makes him seem greater than he was.

heh, just found this
>"I admire metal's integrity, brutality, and obsessiveness, but I can't stand its delusions of grandeur"

doesn't it perfectly sum up Black Sabbath's entire opus?

>>71514204
I think Dre was the only undisputably good thing that came out of WC at that time, and not because of his lyrical skills

>>71514225
Christgau also shit on him. :^)

>>71514205
The classic albums definitely not. If you mean Dio-era Sabbath, that's what I mean when I'm talking about Wagnerian drama.

>>71514235
true :D
but he did like kendrick and eminem who were Dre-produced to be fair

>>71514253
I love Heaven and Hell, but if you're the type who believes rock and classical music shouldn't ever come into contact, I can see why you wouldn't care for it.

i am currenly trying to reason with someone who's educated >>71514253
and a plain xgau dickrider >>71514205
>>71514255

>I've been worried something like this was going to happen since the first time I saw a numerology column in an underground newspaper.

you must all admit that guy knows how to be brutal hehe

>>71513522
poor taste desu

>>71514205
The early metal bands were basically all European, there wasn't a real American metal scene until thrash, which got rid of most of the operatic nonsense and made everything more fast and punky.

>>71514205
That's basically the same thing he said about Metallica. "I admire the speed, aggression, and politics of these guys, but I hate their Conan the Barbarian muscled heroes image."

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>>71514358
>their Conan the Barbarian muscled heroes image
im guessing inferiority complex

>>71514358
i unironically think that he gave them too much credit

>>71514297
Totes. ;)

You Light Up My Life [Warner Bros., 1977]

Who cares if the single sold seven million? Trendsetters don't buy singles. Smart people like you and me don't buy singles, y'know what I mean? But now I hear the _album_ went platinum? D-

>>71514454
Turn On the Bright Lights [Matador, 2002]
They bitch because everybody compares them to Joy Division, and they're right. It's way too kind, and I say that as someone who thanks Ian Curtis for making New Order possible.

t. likes interpol :(

Frontiers [Columbia, 1983]

For those of you who truly thought the jig was up this time, I'll remind you all of how much worse it could be--this top 10 album could be outselling Thriller or Flashdance or Pyromania. My suggestion is for Steve Perry to run for office as a moderate Republican from, say, Nebraska, where his oratory would garner excellent press, and then, having shed his video game interests, stealthily ram the tape tax through. D+

>>71514503
>>71514454
Come on though, picking on Debbie Boone or Journey is like racing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.

Everyone Who Pretended to Like Me Is Gone [Startime International, 2002]
Just what we always wanted--Jonathan Fire*Eater grows up. Put some DreamWorks money into a studio, that was mature. Realized Radiohead was the greatest band in the world, brainy. Stopped playing so fast, hoo boy. And most important, switched vocalists from Nick Cave imitator to Rufus Wainwright imitator. Wainwright makes up better melodies with a dick in his mouth, and not only that, Cave has more literary ability. New York scene or (hint hint) no New York scene, DreamWorks isn't buying. C+

Frampton Comes Alive! [A&M, 1976]

All right, all right, Peter, you win. I'll review your stupid album--it's only been in the top 10 all year. Now will you please go away? C+

Christgau is all about the bantz. He writes these reviews to piss people off.

we should have a regular thread for his banter :D

>>71514530
That album was fucking huge when my dad was in college. He said his roommate played that one and Born To Run over and over and over and over until he couldn't stand it.

>>71513597
>>71513527
He hates all rock & roll and its offshoots like metal because he's a massive, peculiar poptimist who thinks rock should be simple and straightforward and that the Beatles were the best ever ever. He has his occasional slip ups but that's his general stance on rock music.

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>>71513597
>certainly hope it is because prog sucks
Tell me why should anyone take his opinion on music seriously again.

Have You Never Been Mellow [MCA, 1975]

After checking out the competition--Joni Mitchell's latest was a letdown, Helen Reddy is repeating herself, Carly Simon is a bore--I began entertaining heathenish thoughts about this MOR nemesis. It was then that Carola gently reminded me otherwise. "A geisha." she scoffs. "She makes her voice smaller than it is to please men." Whereupon I dropped my heathenish thoughts and resumed finishing the dishes. D+

>>71514555
"Christgau has stated that his favorite artists of all time are Louis Armstrong, Chuck Berry, the Beatles, and the New York Dolls."

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>>71514562

>>71514555
The Beatles actually were the guys who started the whole process that led to prog because they whitified and Europeanized rock-and-roll.

>>71514585
please add nicki minaj to the list

>>71514585
There we go. He likes the simple and the straightforward. For an intellectual, he seems highly offended by anything resembling intellectualism in his music.

The Doors [Elektra, 1967]
I admit that some of the tunes retain considerable nostalgic appeal, but there's no way I can get around it--Jim Morrison sounds like an asshole. B-

>>71514585
also Thelonious Monk

Two Steps From The Move [CBS, 1984]

These Finnish boys have laid down a set of songs whose English must impress their fellow Finns more than it does a native speaker like myself. Cutesy, energetic music follows, but it seems that they spent more time contemplating their Dolls photos than their Dolls records. But then great costumes over great hooks seems to be the rule now, at least in London. And apparently also Finland. C+

>>71514614
lyl you should read Conversations With The Dead where Jerry Garcia demolishes the Doors.

Black Sabbath [Warner Bros., 1970]
The worst of the counterculture on a plastic platter--bullshit necromancy, drug-impaired reaction time, long solos, everything.

>>71514644
Christgau does like jazz, but he said he's never written a lot about it because he lacks the formal musical training to write anything intelligent about it.

>>71514683
By the way, this was his "upgraded" review from Consumer Guide to the '70s. The original review from 1970 just went "Bullshit necromancy? Bullshit necromancy. E"

Trout Mask Replica [Straight, 1969]
I find it impossible to give this record an A because it is just too weird. But I'd like to. Very great played at high volume when you're feeling shitty, because you'll never feel as shitty as this record. B+

>>71514709
I think bullshit necromancy has just become my favourite syntagm.

Bridge Over Troubled Water [Columbia, 1970]

Melodic. B

>>71514731
yeah, knew this one haha

What does Robert Christgau do in bed? I mean, is he a toe fucker?

Going for the One [Atlantic, 1977]

The title track may be their best song ever, challenging a formula that even apologists are apologizing for by now with cutting hard rock guitar and lyrics in which Jon Anderson casts aspersions on his own cosmic mind. But even there, you wish you could erase Rick Wakeman, and elsewhere Steve Howe has as little to say. C

The Ramones [Squire, 1976]

I love, love, love this record. It's clean the way the Dolls weren't, sprightly the way the Velvets weren't, and just plain listenable like Black Sabbath never were. The references to Nazism do make me a bit uneasy, but then it's always been my theory that good rock-and-roll had damn well better make you uneasy. Not that these boys condone any nasties, mind you, they merely hint that their music has some fairly ominous sources they tap into. And I hear it cost $6800 to put on plastic. A

Radiohead wouldn't know a tragic hero if they were cramming for their A levels, and their idea of soul is Bono, who they imitate further at the risk of looking even more ridiculous than they already do. So instead they pickle Thom Yorke's vocals in enough electronic marginal distinction to feed a coal town for a month.

The Dark Side of the Moon [Harvest, 1973]
With its technological mastery and its conventional wisdom once-removed, this is a kitsch masterpiece...

Fresh Fruit For Rotting Vegetables [I.R.S., 1980]

I want there to be more punk rock, I do, I do. I want there to be more left wing New Wave, actually. By Americans at that. But not by an out-of-work singer with Tiny Tim vibrato who spent the first half of the previous decade developing rock cabaret. And it sounds as if, although I'm being generous, that Jello Biafra started listening to the Stooges in 1977. C-

Wisconsin Death Trip [Warner Bros., 1999]

horrorshow in stereo--they mean it, man ("Wisconsin Death Trip", "I'm With Stupid"). *

Maladroit [Geffen, 2002]
Down from 48 percent to 35 at amiannoying.com, not because they're less annoying but because they're less successful.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot [Nonesuch, 2002]
purty music, but I yawn like a lawn when I hear him recite ("Jesus, Etc.," "I Am the Man Who Loves You") *

Ten [Epic, 1991]

in life, abuse justifies melodrama. in music, riffs work even better ("Once", "Even Flow"). *

Begin to Hope [Sire, 2006]
A bigger heart than her piano-playing New York City counterparts but a slightly smaller talent, a problem that could prove chronic or lessen with time ("That Time," "Another Town"). ***

American Idiot [Reprise, 2004]

For those of you laboring over the meaning of this concept album, don't bother with the lyric sheet. Look no further than the cover art--a clenched fist holding a grenade shaped like a bleeding heart. We live in a visual culture, and Billie Joe is saying that the heart will explode unless he throws it, only it won't because he doesn't have what it takes to pull the pin. The emotional travails of two clueless punks--one passive, one aggressive--both projections of the auteur, stand in for the sociopolitical content the vague references to Bush, Schwarzenegger, and war (no war in particular, just war) are thought to represent. There's no race, no politics, hardly any compassion. In order to give weight to his maunderings, Billie Joe ties them together with devices that sank under their own weight back when The Who invented them. Sole rhetorical coup--makes being called a faggot something to aspire to, which in this terrible time, it is. C+

Songs From The Big Chair [Mercury, 1985]

Never one to pay much heed to the plaints of English lads with synthesizers, I assumed I could safely ignore this until my ears detected substance beneath the surface--uncommon command of keyboards, Baker Street sax, synths ragged enough to give texture instead of merely effects, even a lyric that goes "We are paid by those who learn by our mistakes"--not bad. Yet in the end, the surface is still annoying, portending a depth and drama that progressive rock has been promising and failing to deliver since the beginning. B-

>>71514562
soulja boy was, unironically, ahead of his time

>>71514791
>>71514988
>>71515014
>>71515087
all accurate

>>71515014
nice

Hi Infidelity [Epic, 1980]

I'm not saying they deserve the biggest selling album of their crummy era, but these boys have always known a thing or two about the hook and the readymade. Best song--"Tough Guys", which will never make the radio because it features this inspirational verse--"They think they're full of fire/She thinks they're full of shit". B-

Californication [Warner Bros., 1999]

New Age fuck fiends ("Scar Tissue", "Purple Stain"). *

Desire [Columbia, 1975]

In the great tradition of Grand Funk Railroad, Dylan has made an album beloved by tour devotees--including those who were shut out of Rolling Thunder's pseudocommunitarian grooviness except via the press. It is not beloved by me. Although the candid propaganda and wily musicality of "Hurricane" delighted me for a long time, the deceitful bathos of its companion piece, "Joey," tempts me to question the unsullied innocence of Rubin Carter himself. These are not protest songs, folks, not in the little-people tradition of "Hattie Carroll"; their beneficiaries are (theoretically) wronged heroes, oppressed overdogs not unlike our beleaguered superstar himself. And despite his show of openness, our superstar may be feeling oppressed. His voice sounds viscous and so do his rhymes, while sisters Ronee and Emmylou sound distinctly kid, following the leader as if they're holding onto his index finger. More genuinely fraternal (and redeeming) are the pained, passionate marital tributes, "Sara" and "Isis." B-

Street-Legal [Columbia, 1978]

Professional rock journalists invariably learn to find charm in boastful, girl-shy adolescents. Boozy-voiced misogynists in their late thirties are a straight-up drag. This divorcee sounds too overripe, too in love with his own self-generated misery to break through the leaden tempos that oppress his melodies. Because he's too shrewd to put his heart into genuine corn, and because his idea of a tricky arrangement is adding a couple of horns or singing girls to a basic I-IV-V chord progression, a joke is what it is. But since he still commands remnants of authority, the joke is sour indeed. C+

W.A.S.P.

Distinctions Not Cost Effective [1980s]

He who drinks like a fish shall fuck like a fish. And I don't think that's the animal they had in mind.

The Concept [Cotillion, 1978]

Pioneering funk groups such as P-Funk and the Commodores, manned by veteran musicians, largely stayed within the realm of traditional black music styles. The younger ones however more closely resemble third-generation rock groups. Unless you prefer Kansas to the EBs, this is not a compliment--lyrics such as "What is now will be forever" may as well grace the back of a Starcastle album. This is very much a Starcastle kind of band too, right down to the general derivativeness and pretensions to content. But that doesn't make Starcastle music. Still, if interesting sounds, voices, and textures are your thing, then black is still beautiful. B-

The Who By Numbers [MCA, 1975]

This album is a lot worse than my dispassionate grade would indicate because really, don't we all expect better? From The Who, no less? Pete Townshend has more to say about star doubt than David Crosby or John Lennon, but his apercus such as "Dreaming From The Waist" and "Wherever I May Booze" merely circle the drain. I don't expect the seeker to have the answers, but I do at least expect him to enjoy the question. B

Exmilitary [Third Worlds download, 2011]
Death-metal hip-hop for El-P fans who secretly wish the Insane Clown Posse wasn't so dumb ("Blood Creepin," "Klink") ***

Let's Dance [EMI America, 1983]

Anyone who wants Dave's $17 million fling to flop doesn't understand how little good motives have to do with good rock and roll. Rodgers & Bowie are a rich combo in the ways that count as well as the ways that don't, and this stays up throughout, though it's perfunctory professional surface does make one wonder whether Bowie-the-thespian really cares much about pop music these days. "Modern Love" is the only interesting new song, the remakes are pleasantly pointless, and rarely has such a lithe rhythm player been harnessed to such a flat groove. Which don't mean the world won't dance to it. B

Get Your Wings [Columbia, 1974]

These prognathous New Englanders prove the old adage that if a band is going to be dumb, it may as well be American dumb and here they provide a real treat for the hearing impaired on side one. Pretty good sense of humor too, assuming "Lord of the Thighs" is intended as a joke. With dumb bands, it's always hard to tell. B-.

Queen II [EMI America, 1974]

Wimpoid royaloid heavoid android no void. C+

The News of the World [EMI, 1977]

In which the group who last winter brought you a $7.95 LP to boycott devotes one side to the wantonness of woman and the other to the doomed-to-life futile rebelliousness of the poor saps (those saps! you saps!) who buy and listen. C-

Jazz [EMI, 1978]

Despite the title, this isn't completely disgusting and "Bicycle Race" is even kind of cute. Worth 10ccs--now go and stick a spoke or a pump in their ass. C+

Return of the Champions [Hollywood, 2005]

Freddie Mercury was a real queen, but Paul Rodgers is a big disgrace. And that doesn't even get into the Humble Pie cover, the Free cover, or (let's face facts) the HIV song. D-

>>71514144
that makes lulu being lou reed's last album even funnier

>>71514388
holy shit he literally fits the stereotypical build of a nu-male like 30 years before the concept existed

Come in and Burn [DreamWorks, 1997]

Speaking as someone who enjoyed Rollins's spoken-word twofer "The Boxed Life", which recalls a lab assistant's job among other homely pursuits, it should come as no surprise that this thrash-and-churn is his metalest metal yet. It's all the more surprising that Spielberg and Katzenberg would choose to make him their flagship rocker--for all his corporate clout and cult cred, he was off the charts in a couple of weeks. As pathetic as it is for aging Spinal Taps to fabricate an adolescent despair they remember mostly from groupies and fan mail, it's even more pathetic never to feel anything else. C-

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>>71516575
Like, really.

Just stop with his reviews. No one takes him seriously and what made you think anyone would now that you're posting as many of them as possible?

>>71513772
This is true. Music critics have this snarky, deconstructivist idea of the world where they think everything has to be ironic or a self-parody.

>>71513649
Nah, don't worry. Christgau is awful.

>>71516949
Except Bruce Springsteen. Man, oh man, did Christgau ever nutlick him. Six of his first eight albums got As.

>>71513503
Well, it's always seemed pretty obvious to me that Christgau doesn't like any music that actually challenges the listener and isn't three chord ditties with bathroom wall joke lyrics ala the Ramones.

"But at the same time, I couldn't help but enjoy cheese. I liked the nonsensical doo wah doo ba ba songs of the '50s. I liked Motown and hooks and hits and DJ patter. And because I'd heard a lot of jazz, I was underwhelmed by the cult of the guitar solo. So I came to realize that the key to good rock-and-roll lay in momentum and song form."

>>71516949
\There are some serious artists Christgau likes such as Dylan, The Who, and REM.

Christgau has said he thinks Little Richard set the definition of what rock-and-roll should be.

>>71518254
i think christgau has a little richard

Greatest Hits [Chess, 1975]

Freddie King's renown as the inventor of electric blues guitar is a reward for his shameless Anglophilia, here documented on "Palace of the King". Forget what Anglophiles claim of his recent work--the man's been coasting for years. The R&B sides he cut in the '60s for (of all things) King Records are acute. Here he makes do with a bunch of Leon Russell and Don Nix boogies, the voice blurred, the guitar all fake-and-roll. C

--

>>71513655
Calm down drake

Dave Mustaine said that the problem with music critics is that these guys have to listen to literally hundreds of albums, review them, and quickly move on. They don't have the time to listen to an album dozens of times in a row and become attached to it like when you were a kid and only owned a couple albums you played the shit out of, so you learned to love them.