Post criminally overrated musicians ITT.

Burton is extremely fucking overrated, thank fuck more people agree.

>>71487953
all musicians who die in or around their prime are overrated

brian wilson

>>71488211
Fuck off Mike

Kurt cobain, the beatles, mick jagger, queen, kiss, guns n roses, lana del rey, rihanna, lil uzi vert

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this faggot is 1000 times more overrated than cliff burton
also Chuck Schudliner

>>71488314
>faggot is 1000 times more overrated than c
too bad they were both the most talent to touch metallica

>>71488314
>t. butthurt metallica fanboi
Dave might be overrated but he isn't nearly as overrated as Cliff

Weird Al Yankovic

>>71488096

you either die a hero, or die years later

>>71487953
Finally someone said Burton is way too overrated

most of the really popular ones are, especially if they were in a rock band some time in the past

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He's not that good of a guitarist compared to a lot of his contemporaries and he nicked most of the songs

>>71488095
It's crazy how much some people believe he's a guitar god

>>71488314
Dave:
>can play the guitar pretty well
>can do melodic riffing without ripping off At The Gates like every other thrash metal band that had a post-2000 resurgence
Cliff:
>WHOA THIS GUY MAKES HIS BASS SOUND LIKE A GUITAR
>WHOA

good thing you're hardwired to suck metallica dick

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tbphwy

>>71487953
During the early days of hard rock and heavy metal the bass guitar was the driving force of the music. All the classic bands, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Iron Maiden and so on, had loud and heavy bass guitar filling out the mix. A great bass player was just as important to the band as every other member, arguably even the most important.

Metallica with Cliff Burton continued this legacy. The dynamic interplay between the bass and guitars were integral to their sound and the bass sometimes even took the role of lead instrument. He took the foundation laid down by the early innovators and brought it to the next level, helping to establish the new direction that thrash metal was taking heavy music.

As well as musically, Cliff was also a strong presence in the band in character. The oldest of the group, he helped keep a lid on the petty squabbles of James and Lars, and made sure Metallica did what they did best - make powerful, dynamic, fast and heavy metal music.

After he died the loss of direction was almost instant. And Justice for All was a harbinger of things to come, the basslines were less prominent and they had already moved to a more guitar driven sound. By the time The Black Album was released it was clear that the bass guitar was no longer an important part of the sound of Metallica, it was the guitar riffs and vocals that mattered and the bass was almost an afterthought. Metallica, being the leaders of the genre, set the precedent which was followed by all others for decades to come.

>>71488847

Gradually the bass was turned down in the mix in favour of a more bassy guitar sound. 7 and then 8 strings became popular, further encroaching into the bass' sonic territory, and eventually the bass player became a running joke in music circles. You want to make a band but one of you can't play an instrument? Put him on bass. The singer's girlfriend wants to be in the band but is devoid of talent and motivation? It's OK she can play bass. No one hears the bass anyway. One of the four key elements of a great rock band has been completely lost.

The problem with guitars taking up the bass frequencies is that a heavily distorted and compressed metal guitar lacks the dynamics and energy that a great bass player provided. The basslines always following the guitar riffs made it obsolete creatively, and lost the depth of the compositions. There was no more of the excitement and sense of movement created by its interaction with other instruments.

Make no mistake that Cliff Burton would not have allowed this to happen in Metallica had he stayed alive, and as the trendsetters of the time this influence would have continued to set the standard for all of rock and metal. Heavy music would sound significantly different today had Cliff Burton stayed alive, but since his death a lot of what was once great about the genre has been lost.

Not only did Metallica die with Cliff Burton, but the art of playing great bass guitar died with him. I can not think of a single other musician whose death left such a profound impact on the music scene for so many years to come. That's why Cliff Burton is arguably the most important bass player of all time and OP is a massive fucking faggot.

>>71487953
John Frusciante

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>>71488847
>>71488861
>this is what metalfag actually believe

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>>71487953
They wouldn't have been singing nightie night if he'd have lived

>>71488780
Cheap asian granny. Most overrated of all time. Everything he touched after zepplin was mediocre at best. Coverdale&Page collab especially

>>71488836
2nded. Has his good moments. But repetitive af cant stand his voice and the way its always filtered or produced and hes not nearly as good at the garage rock revival as his peers or the original stuff for that matter

>>71488095
Literal who

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It actually gives me a headache thinking about how much undeserved praise these mediocre clowns get. They are inoffensive at their best

>>71488780
>>71489648
The Rain Song is patrician though

>>71488314
Nah hes underrated musically. Just a massive prick who should of hired a vocalist.

>>71488847
>>71488861
did you write this?

>>71489782
I liked kashmir and his black crowes stuff was ok. Not saying he did nothing good at all. Just overall nothing special. Not worth the hype.

>>71488811
Cliff is one of the best metal bassists to ever live, what did Dave accomplish other than being so much of a drunk that he managed to get kicked out of Metallica?

>>71489853
Yes

Every hip-hop/rap artist that isn't Hopsin.

Jay Z

>>71489913
Thats your opinion.
Hangar 18, Holy Wars, Posion was the Cure are more instrumentally engaging than nearly everything metallica has put out. He also gets a point in my book for introducing me to Marty Friedman and Chris Poland who are more talented than any of these folks being discussed

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>>71488780
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kujH0ScAi0

>>71488847
>>71488861
Metal bass players were already starting to get boring before Cliff died. Also, other thrash bassists like Dave Ellefson, DD Verni, and Frank Bello were playing interesting bass parts at the same time as Cliff and still do today. I really doubt his death had a significant impact on the direction of metal composition during the late 80s and 90s.

of course he was a great player, reminiscent of John Entwistle, with a cool lead style and interesting classical influence. too bad you can't hear 90% of what he's playing on RtL and MoP

>>71488836
he's an alright drummer

https://youtu.be/MVL5ylN3ffY?t=6m12s

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>>71488780

>>71490157
>the city of Dean Fertita
>"I could be with Josh right now..."

>>71490240
>tfw i actually made this

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Bobby Blotzer drummer for Ratt

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fuck this stupid idiot

he has no idea how to play a good metal groove, just plays weak floaty shit all the time. but every moron loves him because he plays le mature jazz fills every 2 measures

>>71489987
well done

>>71490294
>mature jazz fills
>16th note descending tom fills as fast as he can
Want to know how I know you're not a drummer?

>>71490294
Absolute unadulterated faggotry. He is the best drummer in metal.

What is your example of a good metal groove?

>>71490312
Thanks. I'm a guitar player but I love the sound of some sweet basslines, it's a damn shame that it's not really a big part of metal anymore.

>>71489764
Synyster Gates from Avenged Sevenfold.

>>71490157
I do like the Dead Weather better than the White Stripes,but even with their sound, some of their songwriting is left to be desired.

>>71489913
Cliff was NOT one of the best metal bassists to ever live. He was very sloppy, he had a horrible tone,and Orion is the only good piece written by him. He was good for Metallica, but he is nowhere near the best.

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This fucking guy. Even I can get my amps to 12 and I can't play for shit. Also fuck his violin guitar solos, fucking fake classical bullshit.

>>71487953
Slash for guitar

Eddie Vedder for vocals(good writer)

Thundercat most overrated bassist

Kiss most overrated and over hated at once. If they were Ween and did all for for a goof theyd be heralded as geniuses

>>71488211
This is great because it shows how much the board overrates him that nobody responded to this except the one dude saying fuck off mike

>>71490083
Ian Hill from Judas Priest comes to mind. During albums like Sad Wings of Destiny, Sin After Sin, and Stained Class, he was writing some very interesting basslines. But when British Steel came around, Hill became known as the guy who keeps playing the root note. Don't believe me? Listen to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_ZsERw4pWo

>>71490601
i agree, brian wilson is a hack and im glad hes gonna die this year

>>71490580
>d and over hated at once
Who hates Kiss?

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>>71490551

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>>71490644
>oh fuck he got dubs

>>71490485
Thanks. Yeah Ive never been impressed by anything avenged 7x has done. But middle school was a long time ago.

I heard that they were going to cover a mr bungle song a long time ago but then completely pussed out of it

>>71490645
A lot of people, believe it or not. KISS is known among circles as a gimmicky band made to market merchandise. While this is true, they did write some genuinely good tunes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7t3KNQ2EjI

>>71490580
>If they were Ween and did all for for a goof theyd be heralded as geniuses
Ween writes good songs though.

the beatles
jack white
every metal band

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>>71488727

>that filename

kek

>>71490601
Why is he overrated?

>>71490645
Everyone between the ages of 17-30. Theyre cool to hate nowadays. A lot of it from their commercialism and gene simmons douchery. I personally think theyre overrated but had some fun moments great showmanship and harmonic as fuck. Ace Frehley was underrated as fuck for a long time. His solo stuff is ass tho

>>71490324
I mean, I know he's not actually playing le mature jazz fills, but that's what I imagine most of his fans think. and I'm not a drummer, but I know shit metal drumming when I hear it
>>71490366
>best drummer in metal
wow, get out more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIYRv7d2vpY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umMRVrOWIng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_0X6r64Ko4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IJovmgDJPY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7JD23KUOa8

those are just a few examples of much better metal drumming than Brann seems capable of

>>71488780

"most" ? They have 80 songs...

He is a really good guitar player, a great song writer and a fantastic producer and arranger...Hard to overrate his influence.

>>71490666
That would've been interesting. Granted, I don't think it would've been good, but at least it's something different. Also, nice satanic trips.

>>71490706
Im not saying ween is bad. Ween are great but theyve released some shit worse than kiss. But the difference is image. Kiss were douches. Ween were at least funny when they were pricks actually experimented with their sound and didnt completely lose touch with their audience and kept a sense of humour. I wish KISS would of realised this

>>71490366
>>71490756
>Posting Mayhem and stoner metal to disprove his point
Grow up

https://youtu.be/axGn6qeJHcM

>>71490893
>thinking that Mayhem and stoner metal don't disprove his point
Grow up

>>71490551
>tfw you actually like Shark Sandwich

>>71490893
I know you're baiting, but even Meshuggah's terrible songs have way better metal grooves than most of Mastodon's music

>>71490756
You seem to be implying that I don't already know all of those bands. Brann is the best drummer in metal.

>>71490915
He asked for grooves and shitty black metal is the opposite of groovy

>>71490893
Meshuggah is good drums for drummers and autists, it has no relevance to anything that any normal person would call a 'groove'.

>>71490944
if you've listened to Dawn of Possession and can still tolerate a Mastodon album then you're unhelpable

god bless you

>>71490942
Because Tomas Haake is the best drummer in metal, especially if it's grooves you want

>>71490978
So what would a normal person call groovy if this doesn't qualify?

https://youtu.be/zg2076b5Lqc

>>71490981
I've never listened to a whole album by Immolation, they are decent enough but I get bored of death metal pretty quick.

Flo Mounier is the answer to >the greatest drummer in metal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbSPRpwZPbs

>>71490366
>Better than
>Portnoy
>Peart
>Igor Cavalera
>John Stanier

Um no. Mastadon were good once but come on. Theyre overrated now as we speak. The hunter was the shits

>>71490852
I see what you're saying. Kiss would probably be more liked if they didn't insist on some modicum of seriousness like they always did and on top of that they were so very mediocre compared to many of their equally or less famous peers that an attitude switch might have been beneficial to them. But then again they're one of the richest and most famous bands to ever play so they did something right.

>>71491030
It's pretty mechanical sounding, that's OK if you like that kind of thing but it doesn't really qualify as groovy to most people

You could pick just about any Mastodon song, the older ones he tended to rape the snare pretty hard but it was always a solid foundation which complimented the song, lately he's a bit more low key and locks into a solid rhythm more. This one is kind of an in between.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX_Rd9gO9E

>>71490294
>>71490366
>>71490756
>>71490893
>>71491117
>>71491145
For my money's worth I'd say the best metal drummer is between Blake Richardson, Tomas Haake, and Mario Duplantier.

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>>71489776
dodally agree

Fug the Beadles :DDDDDD

>>71488847
>>71488861
Meanwhile if you actually go listen to the bass tracks for the first 3 Metallica albums you can hear that Cliff was a terrible player.

>>71491147
The best thing they did was stick to what they did best in the 1970s with catchy pop rock and memorable outfits and stage performances. They were a factory maker of hit singles and records and merch. A lot of sucess also came down to good business choices too on simmons and stanleys part

>>71490393
My friend is getting a bass soon, I play guitar. I'm not gonna let it die just yet.

>>71491281
what lol

all of his basslines that I've heard have been great. you are probably confusing his heavy attack for sloppy playing, but that's just how a lot of metal bassists play because it sounds good in the mix

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>>71490937
That album would have been as bad as the mainstream critics were slandering on it back in the day and remained unknown if it wasn't for Dereks amazing jazzy bass work that were almost completely buried behind Nigels scale wankery in the mix.
You listen to that bass line drop on "No place like nowhere" and you know this is a man that doesn't need no aid or extensions to carry the band like tinfoil blimp across stormy skies.

>>71488314
>Chuck Schuldiner is overrated
>Dave Mustaine is overrated
lmao metallicuck

>>71488836
Indeed

>>71490738
Personally I don't find him to be that great of a songwriter. His ideas are novel at their very best. Nobody other than the Beatles found Pet Sounds to be this incredible album. That was something created music nerds 40 years later.

>>71491641
THIS

>>71491385
Yeah this. There's a reason anesthesia sounds good by itself, he was playing with a smoother style because there wasn't going to be anything else over top of it, whereas he hit the string hard usually to get that percussive and dynamic sound to make it jump out in the mix a bit more.

>>71488780
kys

>>71490580
They only people who think Kiss is overrated have never taken the time to actually sit and listen to how brilliant their early material is.

Luomo
Junior Boys
TR/ST
Yeasayer
Astro
Jessy Lanza

>>71493324

Early Alice Cooper is 10x better and was the progenitor to Kiss's shit

Richard D. James

He is neither that innovative or is his music that interesting. Anyone who isn't still jizzing over Autechre and has a deeper knowledge of the history of electronic music would realize that.

>>71493388
Proving my point, thank you

>>71488211
Demonstrably untrue
In fact, he's underrated af desu

>>71493419

If you think Kiss is better or more influential than Alice Cooper, you're a complete retard.

Kiss wanted to be AC so bad they got their producer. Alice's stage antics were actually shocking at the time. Kiss was just gay cosplay level shit. Alice actually wrote good songs.

Kiss is bland af

>>71493627
Wanna try that again with big boy words instead of "gay" or "retard"?

>>71493676

Wanna try that again with an actual rebuttal, instead of some gay, mommy attempt at hand slapping?

Do you have an actual opinion worth defending FAGGOT?

Or do words scare you too much?

>>71493720
I mean, you listen to Alice Cooper
You think your opinion is valid at all
It's basically the hard rock equivalent of William Shatner

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>>71493720
If you actually listened to the music there'd be no need to make a rebuttal

Hey. I love both 70s Kiss and Alice Cooper, but defending either as art is pointless.

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>>71493787
are u tryna tell me kiss aint art son

>>71493787
Kiss is one of my favorite, but I wouldn't defend them for having some sort of high artistic integrity.

I just think it's unfair to call a band that brought a lot to the table, musically, in the world of rock and metal overrated.

>>71493743
>>71493770

Wow, two or one samefag trying to argue the merit of Kiss's shit music. This is fucking hilarious.

Kiss is the blandest most, basic version of glam/shock rock in the genre. It's like comparing New Found Glory to Green Day, you newbs.

What is it with Kiss and autistic retards? They're like the Sonic of music.

>>71493787
>>71493842

I grew up on Alice so i have some kind of bias but they really did have some quality output in the early 70s.

>>71493843
Yes ha I am a MASTER OF ARGUING!! Look at all my ad hominem!!!! AHAHA!

>>71493863

Rivers is this you?

Do you still have that Kiss poster in the garage?

>>71493843
>two

PREPARE FOR TROUBLE AND MAKE IT DOUBLE

>>71493843
TO PROTECT THE WORLD FROM DEVASTATION
AND UNITE THE WORLD WITHIN OUR NATION

>>71491641
>>71491663
In the sense that he gets too much credit compared to Johnny, maybe.

In a general sense, fuck no.

>>71493882
Yes. Hail Simmons.

>>71491645
I'll take broken English for 10 please

>>71490551
.....but this goes to 11

>>71491245
I'd go with Mario. Haake is a beast and one of my biggest influences but Mario has so much groove.

Blake has a some good grooves too when they let him do it but his standard drumming is too technowankey with little feeling.

>>71487953
Anything considered /mu/core

>>71491147
>But then again they're one of the richest and most famous bands to ever play so they did something right.
It's a band full of jews of course they were great at advertising and business.

>>71490772
truth.

you dont have to like what he did, and he was even kind of a sloppy guitar player, but the music they wrote, what they did was fucking cosmic by comparison to most everything else before or after.

there are very few people who did what zep did.

Though I think jpj and bonzo were really what made zep great, but thats outright opinion.

>>71494232
Given that their music is all over the place Blake's drumming fits well within the mold, and I see where you're coming from, but if it isn't your thing that's another story.

Mario on the other hand, it's hard to deny his swing. Anyone who would say he doesn't have groove almost certainly just doesn't like metal at all.

>>71494549
Agreed. Also, I actually prefer slightly sloppy playing over tight technical shit.

>>71488216
kek

>>71490658
rip
>>71488327
tru

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>>71494549
>but the music they wrote
>wrote

No one else is going to say it? I have to be the bad guy? Fine..
>bob dylan

>>71491056
t. nu-male

>>71491145
>The hunter was the shits
t. nu-male

>>71494829
he has one hell of a greatest hits album though

>>71488211
>>71494666

>>71488314
>2 great guitarists
>both founded and fronted classic Metal bands
>both released multiple great albums
>mediocre bass player who gets praise because he uses a distortion pedal and a wah is better

Fuck off

>>71490723
>every metal band

>>71487953
I think Cliff is overrated by a lot of people who absolutely loved classic Metallica, and seeing them fall from such heights when he died exacerbates that emotion. Personally, what I buy is what Flemming Rasmussen said about him which was that he was an incredible musician, but that there are many many people far more technical than he was.

>>71494967
t. nu-male

>>71487953
From my experience any metal bassist who is actually audible in the mix is enormously overrated by virtue of having just made himself heard

>>71489913
Dave pretty much invented the American thrash scene.

This is a completely retarded conversation, isn't it?

>>71495023
Maybe contributing something to the sound of the band is more important than their technical ability? Maybe they are actually audible in the mix for a reason?

>>71494994
Hendrix couldn't sweep pick 32nd note arpeggios at 180bpm but he was the best guitar player of all time.

If you think technical ability has any place in these sort of conversations then your opinion is completely worthless.

If anything the most overrated players are ones who are technically good but not very interesting or creative, the metal scene is so fucking autistic though that everyone seems to spin it the other way around.

>>71489062
naah

>>71487953
Roger Waters

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>>71489776
ok lol

>>71496647
Nah. One of the best lyricists in Rock.

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>>71488861
I wept with despair while reading this. Thank you for posting the truth.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMZSJCgn_K8

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4i_gBC0

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2HRbTsayXo

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Grimes and Kanye

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1X0Bejwnko

>>71497295
hes pointing at us...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2F3XNwVUeE

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bUle4zMYqE

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3i9OSONwmA

>>71497282
>>71497350
>>71497360
>>71497371
>>71497383
>>71497396
>>71497407
So /mu/ The Thumbnail Spammer?

Is that a good name?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMCsv-zj56s

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBnyyfvDwX8

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6ogv0SO82M

>>71497445
same guy who was spamming in a 'metal is the greatest genre' thread not too long ago..

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TICmWym9DmU

>>71497511
Yup. He shows up in meal threads or drug threads.

Damn. I'm here waaaay too much

>>71488327
this

>>71487953
>>71488061
Oh you both can go duck yourselves, dude was an absolute monster on the bass

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6QTtPO5tJA

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5-_4VbzF_A

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9ZiU7ahZso

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzJA1xQxTCU

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj3EFzNwhxM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHtpU4aABPI

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njfHdkBU3sw

>>71497569
*fuck
Lol, my spell correct is so aggressive

>>71488811
>can play guitar pretty well
Clearly you know nothing about guitar

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-RdsIst6p4

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOdg43J5r1w

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myoRMlYc4k

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlitksyuOd8

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEMqeYec3aY

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G5xSzrG7OA

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCDjP4JnpGU

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcsVp0A4Vik

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGqVW-NyWSM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGmaresjBhY

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>>71487953

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z33VWOaCImQ

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1X_6H8r18

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eUVubC7ojM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2vdfTCbulc

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiFeDwKKSCo

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnUZ5xpcKHw

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-jR-9o0cew

>>71490893
You guys are both partially wrong since black metal is such a shitty fucking genre with consistently uninspired thrashing and godawful shrieking, screaming vocals

stoner and sludge metal and even Mastodon are miles better than that shit

>>71488095
>>71488805
He's not anything super special but his solos are genuinely really good.
>>71488861
>>71488847
Bass players sucking ass is a running joke because everybody wants to be lead. So when four friends make a band, the drummer drums, the best guitarist plays lead, the second best plays rhythm and the third best plays bass. So the guy that already likely hasn't put in the same amount of work as the other two is now stuck playing an instrument he doesn't even want to. As a result, they never practice, and because they play so badly they get turned down in the mix.

Even when a good bass player isn't super audible unless you're listening for it, removing them completely would have a huge effect. A really notable example is Tom Morello and Tim Commerford. Morello's guitar sounds fucking massive and has this super punchy full sounding tone, but if you isolate just the guitar it sounds like tinny bullshit. Even though Commerford is normally pretty high up in the mix compared to a lot of bass players, he still isn't immediately audible during guitar riff sections. But you certainly can hear his effect.

Honestly I'd like to see more bass driven music in general though. Primus is pretty much the only "metal" group that has the bass higher in the mix than the guitar, but that's mostly because Claypool is a god. Mudvayne had a fucking awesome bassist and it sucks that a lot of the time he's barely even audible unless it's only him playing as an effect or section of the song.

>>71488327
Mustaine never played in metallica it was a joke that he played along with. You dont hear 3 guitars in kill em all and he never played live, dumb faggots.