Why does everyone act like Kanye is a bad lyricist and Jay-Z god tier?

>>71472646
you're not funny.

>>71472646
>now if i fuck this model

Cause jay Z is just another hack in hip hop that has reached god status in the hip hop crowd out of popularity in his peak. Same thing goes with Biggie, Eminem, DMX, Lil wayne and soon to be Drake. Those who praise these artists don't look at their work in their artistic merit. Hip hop is currently plagued by the number of sales = quality. Every rapper just 'comes on the track' and raps about the same old shit time after time. only artists like Kanye, Death grips and Clouddead ever step beyond this, if only occasionally. Kanye isnt an elloquent lyricist but is far more poetic than most of his comtemporaries. Compare this to Kendrick to who an elloquent lyricist, which masks the lack of emotional range that a song like 'Runaway' has.

>>71472912
I was with you until:

>only artists like Kanye, Death grips and Clouddead ever step beyond this

Holy fuck dude.

cant recall ever meeting a jay-z fan. everyone seems to really like the guy and his music even though people dont listen to it.
I for one couldnt possibly mention 3 solo songs by him and I havent even been trying to avoid his music

>>71472682
I'm not joking, Jay Z was inducted into the songwriting hall of fame and he isn't that good.

>>71473039
Reasonable doubt, the black album, and the blueprint are really all you need

>>71472912
>Kendrick to who an elloquent lyricist
he's alright. don't see what's so special.

>>71473181
Then back it up with actual lyrics you think are shit, don't pussyfoot around with memes.

Seriously, post them.

>>71473039
>>71473257
all I can think of is 99 Problems and Hard Knock Life. Jay Z isn't brought up outside of that.

Kanye lipstick tho, cool

>I slapped my girl

>>71472912
this is your daily reminder that cloudead is not hip hop

>>71473308
Sasquatch, Godzilla, King Kong, Loch Ness
Goblin, ghoul, a zombie with no conscience
Question: What do these things all have in common?
Everybody knows I'm a motherfucking monster
Conquer, stomp ya, stop your silly nonsense
Nonsense, none of you niggas know where the swamp is
None of you niggas have seen the carnage that I've seen
I still hear fiends scream in my dreams
Murder, murder in black convertibles, I
Kill the block, I murder the avenues, I
Rape and pillage your village, women and children
Everybody want to know what my Achilles heel is
Love, I don't get enough of it

>>71473381
what's clouddead then

>>71473416
Experimental Ambient Trash

>>71473574
so I take it you don't like CloudDead

>>71473704
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO5wryDdEI0

>>71473346
Empire State of Mind and Izzo (H.O.V.A) were pretty big, then some other notable songs are Can I Live, D'Evils, 22 Two's, Dead Presidents II, Takeover, Heart of the City, and maybe This Can't Be Life, though I don't remember if it's a solo song

>>71473308
>dead presidents II

Ahh, who wanna bet us that we don't touch leathers
Stack cheddars forever, live treacherous all the et ceteras
To the death of us, me and my confidants, we shine
You feel the ambiance, y'all niggaz just rhyme
By the ounce dough accumulates like snow
We don't just shine, we illuminate the whole show; you feel me?
Factions from the other side would love to kill me
Spill three quarts of my blood into the street, let alone the heat
Fuck em, we hate a nigga lovin this life
In all possible ways, know the Feds is buggin my life
Hospital days, reflectin when my man laid up
On the Uptown high block he got his side sprayed up
I saw his life slippin, this is a minor set back
Yo, still in all we livin, just dream about the get back
That made him smile though his eyes said, "Pray for me"
I'll do you one better and slay these niggaz faithfully
Murder is a tough thing to digest, it's a slow process
and I ain't got nothin but time
I had near brushes, not to mention three shots
close range, never touched me, divine intervention
Can't stop I, from drinkin Mai-Tai's, with Ta Ta
Down in Nevada, ha ha, Poppa, word life
I dabbled in crazy weight without rap, I was crazy straight
Potnah, I'm still spendin money from eighty-eight... what?

>>71473862
>Empire State of Mind
forgot about that.
>Can I Live, D'Evils, 22 Two's, Dead Presidents II, Takeover, Heart of the City, and maybe This Can't Be Life
I've heard of This Can't Be Life and Heart of the City, but only because Kanye mentioned them in lyrics.
And Takeover is his response to Ether, right? I also forgot about Numb/Encore, but that was with Linkin Park.
Jay Z is only relevant if you were around when those songs came out, they have almost no lasting power.
But kids born in 2003 (I have one class with all freshman) are familiar with and know lyrics to Ye songs.

>>71473308
>moment of clarity
Music business hate me ‘cause the industry ain't make me
Hustlers and boosters embrace me and the music I be making
I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars
They criticized me for it, yet they all yell "holla"
If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming like Common since
When your cents got that much in common
And you been hustling since your inception
Fuck perception! Go with what makes sense
Since I know what I'm up against
We as rappers must decide what's most important
And I can't help the poor if I'm one of them
So I got rich and gave back, to me that's the win/win
So next time you see the homie and his rims spin
Just know my mind is working just like them (rims, that is)

>>71474075
This is boring, but it's not nauseatingly terrible like some of his other verses.

>>71474211
Well in terms of "being brought up," those are the songs usually brought up. Ether was a response to Takeover. And Jay-Z as an artist isn't really relevant right now, but Empire State of Mind in particular had staying power, especially in NYC, but he's basically like Dre and Puff Daddy now, making money in the background

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>>71474282
>So next time you see the homie and his rims spin
>Just know my mind is working just like them (rims, that is)

>>71474324
there's a couple reasons why i posted that verse

>there's no underlying metaphor or meaning beyond the lyrics themselves
>the rhyme scheme is relatively simple, including the internal rhyme scheme
>braggadocio lyrics which were cliche in his day
>nigga and ebonics just spewed all over
there's barely any rap artist that doesn't fit this description

>>71474344
>Empire State of Mind in particular had staying power, especially in NYC
If the year it came out and the year after count as staying power. I'm from Brooklyn.
Same goes for Run this Town, it was hot for a year, if that and people mostly talk about Kanye's verse.

>>71474386
It wasn't even good bragging in that verse.
>there's no underlying metaphor or meaning beyond the lyrics themselves
Can you provide an example of a rap song that does have an underlying metaphor/meaning behind the lyrics?
I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

>>71473346
Dirt off your shoulder is a fire song

Mostly because of the beat but Jay does a good job. Big Pimpin' was also huge in the day. He has good singles, generally. Empire State of Mind was also huge.

>>71473401
>that list of monsters
>Jay-z guessing charades on Halloween

>>71475955
only part of Big Pimpin I know is "BIG PIMPIN" during the chorus.

>>71475988
Everyone shits on him listing monsters, but I think the worst part is verse is "LOOOOOOVE! I don't get enough it".

>>71476031
Monster is genuinely pretty bad all around. Nicky is atrocious. Kanye has the best verse but it's a goofy ass song.

FIRST THINGS FIRST I'LL EAT YA BRAINS

>>71472646
Heh, moulies

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>>71476109
>Nicky is atrocious.

I'll agree that Kanye's verse is underrated though.
>it's a goofy ass song.
It's fine. Would be better without Jay's verse, and Rick Ross' intro was a little weird.
only garbage song on MBDTF is So Appalled, Kanye sounds like a completely different person, and the chorus is fuckin ridiculous. Great beat though.
The original version of See Me Now without Big Sean should've been the album's closer, it's the most upbeat and inspiring song I've ever heard.

earl sweatshirt is better than jay z

>>71472646
The thing about Kanye is that he has some truly transcendent lines muddled by absolute shite-tier ones between them.

Saint Pablo is the greatest example of this, especially the second verse.

>>71477001
>She got the same shoes as my wife but she copped 'em at Aldo
>Modern day MJ with a off the wall flow

are the only lines that really stick out of the song.
Saint Pablo is great, it just sounds really weird cause Kanye completely ignored counting syllables.

>>71472682
>>71473308
Why was this guy so mad?

>>71479554
autistic Jay Z stan.

>>71472912
Kendrick does NOT lack emotional range at all.

>>71473039
Y'all really slandering the flow God like this? Crazy.

>>71473401
This is a meme, but I'm positive you're trolling.

>>71472912
>Kendrick
>lack of emotional range
What???
The main reason I believe Kendrick to be an all-time great in hip hop is because of his emotional range

>>71479735
>>71479823
What emotional range does Kendrick Lamar have? He does that goofy ass crying voice on the second half of u, but I can't think of anything else.
It's hard to make out anything with ugly ass voice. How you from Compton and have an African accent?

>>71472646

Jay Z is only reached revered status since he went corporate and became rich enough to influence others. Same with P Diddy.

>>71474282
>I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars
>They criticized me for it, yet they all yell "holla"
>If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli
>Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
>But I did 5 mill' – I ain't been rhyming like Common since

The beginning of the downfall of rap music and black culture. Who takes pride in selling out and promoting degeneracy?

>>71473299
He's definitely one of the best storytellers in hip hop and his lyrics get straight to the point

>>71480192
Drake said something similar in his verse for 100 by The Game.
>I would have all of your fans if I didn't go poppin'
>I stayed on some conscious shit

>>71472912
>only artists like Kanye, Death grips and Clouddead

Was with you until riiiight here. Listen to more hip-hop.

>>71480210
>storytellers
I'll stop you right there. Storytelling is one of the biggest memes of rap culture, it never has been and never will be impressive.
Anybody can tell a story and rapping one doesn't leave much room for stylization like a film director or novelist might have.
There are no auteurs when it comes to rappers who are storytellers.

I don't care for anyone's opinion that places value in storytelling in the realm of hip-hop, go beat off to your Immortal Technique vinyls.

>>71480251
>Was with you until riiiight here. Listen to more hip-hop.
What other rappers do that? Who would you have said?

>>71480192
A multi-million dollar rapper that still made classic albums and will probably go down as the a top 3 consensus rapper. The fuck.

>>71480106
CACS continue to expose themselves

>NOW IF I LE FUCK THIS LE MODEL XD

>>71480300

*5

>>71480300
I'm not white, go fuck yourself.

>>71480279
Seriously? Come on, man. Use the internet.

cLOUDDEAD has fucking Doseone, who was in Subtle, and in Deep Puddle Dynamics. Deep Puddle Dynamics is made up of Slug of Atmosphere, Sole, Alias, and Doseone. Slug was friends with the late Eyedea, is friends with Brother Ali, El-P, etc. Eyedea was friends with Kristoff Krane. These are all hip-hop artists.

If you look up bands similar to Death Grips, dalek is usually number fucking one. dalek also did collaborations with El-P, EL-P did collaborations with Vast Aire and Vordul Mega.

Also check out Aceyalone - A Book Of Human Language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwVNp42l3Xo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGFxw7MZGm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u9sKVTcVn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOiluphTRqs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJLkL_bdtwA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kekROxOTHSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlHuY4yUUJk

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. You gotta dig in the crates and find the good shit.

>>71480360
I just want more artists similar to Kanye. When you look him up people like Jay Z, Kid Cudi, Kendrick Lamar, Pusha T, Travis Scott, Lupe Fiasco, and Drake come up despite them not being like Kanye at all.

>>71480360
Brother Ali is good friends with Sage Francis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VHfy9Zik5k

Brother Ali was/is I'm not sure anymore friends with Grieves, who is acquainted with Slug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5tODuQK3HU

>>71480392
Why even namedrop cLOUDDEAD and Death Grips, then? I don't listen much to Kanye, I do greatly enjoy TCD, LR, and Graduation. Most I can say I suppose is Aceyalone's A Book Of Human Language, and Atmosphere's When Life Gives You Lemons You Paint That Shit Gold.

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>>71480392
They all come up cause they related to Kanye in some way. There is no one close to Kanye. Lupe Fiasco is similar in a conscious kinda way. Like how Food and Liquor sounded VERY Kanye influenced (Late Registration-ish Kanye). Travis Scott is definitely a Kanye child, too. Heavy influence but a new generation. That's not a stretch. Everyone else is an affiliate.

Pic more or less related

>>71479735
Give examples where Kendricks songs have encompassed a complex emotion, not to be confused with a simple emotion in a complex way

>>71472945
You can't tell me that runaway, up my sleeves, on gp and Jimmy breeze 1 and 2 don't display a complex emotion in a artful and/or nuanced way
I could have given examples like Milo or Dalek, but I'm sure most people have listened to the ones I listed

>>71480418
>Why even namedrop cLOUDDEAD and Death Grips, then?
I wasn't the anon that did.

>>71480508
Travis Scott's music is nothing like Kanye's and fuck you for posting that ugly ass cover.

Lupe Fiasco is conscious, but in the lamest/laziest way, he has more in common with J. Cole and Common.

>>71482792
Travis music is structured different, but he's a Ye offspring and you can see it specifically in Rodeo

You're right about Lupe kinda. But the original Food and Liquor is alot more Kanye.

>>71479751
Right? Like we're really boutta pretend Hov is a shitty rapper?

Y'all must be teenagers lmao

>>71476887
I agree, Earl is a better lyricist than most other contemporary rappers, especially others in his age bracket, a lot of niggas can't even touch the shit he was doing on his self titled.

>>71472646
Jay-Z is a meme and a mid-level artist at best
>inb4 he's good because he knew biggie

>>71486127
>continue to expose your poor judgement

Jay Z's beef with Nas holds more weight than any misconception that he's good because he knew Biggie. I don't think anyone cares about that. Boy if you dont...

They're both pretty shit. I don't get rappers being praised because they can say stretch very simple messages into entire songs containing hundreds of words.

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Who did it better?