/classical/

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>>71287013
serialism was a bad joke

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>>71287110
best composer of the 20th century reporting in

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>>71287136
*teleports behind Hindemith*

>>71287254
P-eh-tz-hold

Please anons, help me with my problem.

I've always liked classical music but I didn't get seriously into it until a few months ago. I've been listening to a lot of stuff by many different composers. And the problem is, I like absolutely everything I've listened to so far. Like, I can't really properly judge because everything sounds pleasant to me. Do I have no standards? Am I ignoring any musical aspects?

>>71287668
Just learn what sonata form is and you'll understand everything

Before falling asleep I always enter in a zen-like state in wich I can hear full blown symphonies in my head. With some training I've learnt how to trigger this mindset at will.

Now, I don't know how to transcribe music, nor I have any sort of musical training. How much practice does it take to learn how to transcribe music from your head to music sheet? I'm sure I could give it 2 hours of practice every day.
What should I expect?

Do you ever get drunk and start conducting Beethoven in your livingroom?

Or is that just me? I must know, my girlfriend thinks I'm weird but I'm sure that's perfectly natural

I've never listened to classical. Where should I start?

>>71287668
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQlPqcJpx74

Try this

>>71287906
I do that when I'm sober.

>>71287906
Me and my classical-music friends played beer pong for a long time. Then sombody just turned the boxes on and Mahler 2 pressured the whole room. We started to groan the theme and rolled on the floor almost with the rhythym. And you thought being drunk and start conducting Beethoven is weird?

>>71287965
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcGkkXtask_fpbK9YXSzlJC4f0nGms1mI

>>71287906
That should be your natral reaction, regardless of how sober you are.

>>71288019
I agree, playing beer pong is very weird.

>>71288040
*natural

>>71288023
Dope, thanks

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>>71288019
Lol you guys

>>71288019
>Then sombody just turned the boxes on and Mahler 2 pressured the whole room. We started to groan the theme and rolled on the floor almost with the rhythym.
Oh, so you performed Berio's Sinfonia?

>>71288431
LOL

Bizet
https://youtu.be/bdVpty25oMg

What's the best recording of Ein deutsches Requiem?

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>>71290258
This one.

>>71290323
The choir in that one can't fucking sing German to save their lives, and SDF's favorite recording is a bit too slow

quick question how do you guys scrobble classical music?
would you tag the album artist ast he composer then the performer as the artist?

>>71290419
CLT BTFO

>>71290490
No because you can't scrobble live performances and scrobbling is gay af anyway.

>>71290490
literally end your life

>>71290728
that'll just make it even harder to scrobble

>>71290818
>xD

>>71290323
>le spooky hand

Still doing this meme, are we?

>>71290323
>depussy in your chart
wew who would've thought

>>71290963
when did i say xD in that post?

>>71287778
don't flatter yourself
many people experience the same phenomena; I guarantee whatever it is you're imagining is unremarkable

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chart

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You will never be a cosy classical radio deejay introducing devoted listeners to countless underappreciated composers.

Anyone here like Gustav Holst's The Planets? Not seeing it in any charts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isic2Z2e2xs

Petzold.

Was Ride of the Valkyries such a meme before Apocalypse Now?

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>tfw you don't know anyone who can appreciate music as intellectually as you do

>>71293264
did you study music theory and compositon?

>>71293300
Yes

>>71293264
>>71293300
>>71293324
Same.

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Hey, guys, how do I string quartet expert? Here's my start.
Got the Bartok's and the Kolday's on the way, and as you can tell, I'm mostly into late-Romantic and Modern stuff.

>>71293324
Do you study the cross section of music and mathematics?

>>71291914
yeah it's entry level normie-core which makes people dismiss it but it's still good

uranus is the best planet btw

>>71293345
I'm not a Bauchtist.

Hi, I just started listening to classical, and I was wondering why Mozart is such overrated pleb tier compared to John Williams.

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>>71293338
The modern choices are fairly solid, Pacifica are a great quartet.
You need Mozart, Haydn, and a better recording of Beethoven's quartets.

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>>71293338
Also if you like that Crawford Seeger quartet, try Ives' and Carter's.

>>71293338
>emerson string quartet

M E M E A L E R T

>>71293533
Whoa, Haydn wrote a lot of fucking quartets!
>Preconceiving that composers tend to write one quartet per Op
>This guy did up to six per Op

Should I just get the lot?

>2017
>not listening to yourself improvising on Ondes Martenot as a primary source of music
jeez this board is pretty pleb

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No bullshit, what's the best complete set of Schubert's string quartets?

>Wagner's Tristan und Isolde is sometimes described as marking the start of modern music.

Is this fair?

>>71294087
no

>>71293395
I can kind of concur with that Uranus is the best, but I'm biased since I'm a trombonist that likes the high range and there's a really nice passage in it.

Jupiter is really nice as well.

>>71294174
>>71293395
You big dummies.

Neptune is clearly superior musically

>>71294217
Concur.

You're fucking dumb if you don't see that actually

>>71294316
>>71294217
Obvious samefag is obvious

>>71294006
>implying you have an Ondes Martenot
I highly doubt it

>>71294087
The Tristan chord is often singled out, but really it was operas like Elektra, or Schoenberg's Verklärte Nacht that were the start of modern music.

Gesualdo was really the start, but he mostly went ignored.

I really like Balay's Prelude et Ballade

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>>71293866
Guys? Should I get all ~24h of Haydn quartets, or is there some more easily digestible recording?

what are your most beloved keys
F#m, Dm, C#m, Fm, Eb are mine

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>>71287778
>>71291144

Can anyone actually respond to this question? I don't give a fuck if you think that the music I'm imagining is shit, I want to transcribe it. This is the first step I have to take to improve it, so keep your stupid considerations for yourself.

I mean, no one here knows how to transcribe music? Is this why I'm getting no answers? Are you guys all as pleb as me?

>>71295256
C minor and F major are probably my favorites.

>>71295256
Gm, Am, D#maj and Emaj

Get on my level

>>71295406
Go study music at college / university.

That or learn how to work a DAW or notation program, or ideally, both.

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>>71294897
Just get them all, they're all pretty good. You could focus on Op. 64 if you need to cut things down.

>>71295655
See? Still no answer.

At this point I'm 99% sure that no one here knows how to transcribe music. What a shame.

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>>71295684
Do period instruments actually "improve" the interpretation? I don't care much for what Haydn had in mind when composing, just as I love Bach on piano.

>>71295863
>Gould
>not Koroliov for pedal-less interpretations
>not Nikolayeva for interpretations woth heavy pedaling

Shit taste

>>71295754
>no one here knows how to transcribe music
write it down, get it? it it so hard? can't you use pen and paper, or at least a mouse?

>>71295684
>>71295863
actually, just looked that shit up on Amazon, and it's $380 so I'll stick to a $35 copy without the historical flourish, thank you very much

>>71295935
>capitalistcuck
use torrents

>>71290258
>>71290323
>gardiner
>not klemperer with dieskau and schwarzkopf
You are nuts if you really think that's the best one

>>71295754
Going to university will help you learn how to transcribe.

If you dont know how to read music, start with that. otherwise learn a DAW and stop bothering us.

>>71296118
My question:
>How much practice does it take to learn how to transcribe music from your head to music sheet?
>I'm sure I could give it 2 hours of practice every day.

Your answer:
>go to university

>>71296162
>How much practice does it take to learn how to transcribe music from your head to music sheet?
a day or two, if you're really persistent. there's nothing hard about it
when I was a kid, it took a couple of hours and some audio software, I quickly figured out how to draw notes in a piano roll

>>71295935
use rutracker you muppet

>>71296317
Some people like to own physical media and support the labels and performers.

>>71295256
Dm, Cm, Eb

>>71296502
The music you hear will be the same. If you want to fill your CD rack, dont complain about price to us.

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>>71293011
Yes.

>>71296209
>when I was a kid, it took a couple of hours and some audio software, I quickly figured out how to draw notes in a piano roll

Wich is not what I'm asking for. You're clearly incompetent, just ignore my questions.

Anyone else?

Shosty's Preludes and Fugues aren't too bad

>>71287906
>>71288019
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/comments/5w061v

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>yfw everyone depicts bogwig as an autistic bogbilly

Thoughts on Gernsheim?

>>71296527
i only buy vinyl

>>71297927
what a bunch of fags

>>71298190
>>71287303

>incapable of holding a normal conversation, always shout at people
>costantly sperg out for no reason whatsoever, always fighting with everyone
>go for months without changing clothes or showering, people around him literally had to sneak in his house, throw his old clothes away and substitute them with new, fashionable ones
>incomprehensible hand writing, uses lots of exlamation works (his conversation books are extremely funny, they're filled with ''WHAT?????? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!'')
>do only one thing for his entire life (composing music since he was 7)
>never had a girlfriend
>had literally only 3 friends, and they were piano students of his
>his house was a mess, there were always lots of chamberpots filled with piece and shit everywhere and he apparently didn't care about it

>I'm pretty sure Beethoven was the ultimate music sperg

HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>71298835
>>his house was a mess, there were always lots of chamberpots filled with piss and shit everywhere and he apparently didn't care about it
>tfw his house would've festered into a real life BOG had he been left to his own devices

CAN'T ESCAPE THE MEMES!

>>71298835
I think he was bipolar actually

>>71298910

Yeah, one pole of his house was full of shit and the other was full of piss. He only found solace in music, where he synthesized them like no one else.

>>71298941
I bet Mozart would have loved him

>>71298978
>mfw secret canon lore

Molter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjMwo1gb410

https://youtu.be/wOJ3r0OqItw

BBC Great Composers episode for Wagner and within the first minute the topic is antisemitism and the speaker a holocaust survivor.

>>71287965
Just listen to those youtube "best of" videos. Make sure to read the comments to see the plebs wollow in their own arrogance. Aka "i'm 12 and I like this"

Hey there fellas, fellow niggas!

How would I go about finding works such as grave and sombre as this? I do not need technicality, but I value the atmosphere here too much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD0dH5gR8Zc

>>71299425

His music makes people wish they were gassed.

Petzold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hSoVLQ3SBc [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnLy31-Z7E4 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w433wbM14Y [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdDU4qwaI80 [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oESzlizAafE [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jem-LgKgA [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9MU1T6uDXA [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s22fNJdICQ [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an77qFp0Y9Q [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BSfYz4_Gbg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xweAry37KUg [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOVF-33A9HI [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSAGwa49MM [Embed]

The suite in g minor and the toccata in b flat major available for download
http://www.saladelcembalo.org/archivio.php

>>71300047
>[Embed] [Embed]

Even the link are pointlessly repetitive.

>b
>o
>g

>>71300111
fug

Best part of Mozart's Requiem

>>71294444
>Gesualdo was the start
Wasted quads

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>I want to enthrall the world by my creative work, by its wondrous beauty. I want to be the brightest imaginable light, the largest sun. I want to illumine the universe by my light. I want to engulf everything and absorb everything in my individuality. I want to give delight to the world. I want to take the world as one takes a woman. I need the world. I am what my senses feel. And I create the world by these senses. I create the infinite past, the growth of my consciousness, the desire to be myself. I create the infinite future, the repose in me, the sorrow and joy in me. I am God. I am nothing. I want to be all. I have generated my antithesis–time, space, and plurality. This antithesis is myself; for I am only what I engender. I want to be God. I want to return to myself. The world seeks God. I seek myself. The world is a yearning for God. I am a yearning for myself. I am the world. I am the search for God, for I am only what I seek. The history of human consciousness begins with my search and with my return.

>>71300262
Wtf people didn't start wearing fedoras until after he died

>>71300262
>>71298835

That's it. Bogbilles cannot recover. BETAven dwelled in excrement.

>b-b-but scriabin said t-that

SHUT UP!

Does anybody know of any good pieces in E major or A major?

I just want to sample some sounds in order to make a track that creates a love-y mood.

>>71300790
arabesque nr 1

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>>71300262
>he doesn't think like a neurotypical so he deserves to be made fun of

>>71299765
kek

>>71300883
He thought like an autistic deviantart edgelord and he made shitty music, so yeah, we can make fun of Scriabin :)

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>>71300262
>proceed to die for a shaving infection

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>“Oh my sweetest Phindela, think of how much of that precious fluid I have wasted on you ramming away at you to no good purpose. I have not given you a baby and think how many musical ideas have been squandered inside you. Ballads, Polonaises, perhaps even an entire concerto have been lost forever up your D flat major, I cannot tell you how many. I have been so deeply immersed in my love for you I have hardly created anything, everything creative went straight from my cock into your “des durka”. Works that could have seen the light of day are forever drowned in your D flat major. You are now carrying so much of my music in your womb that you are pregnant with my compositions. The saints were right when they said that women were the gates of hell. No, no, I take that back. You are the gates of heaven. For you I will give up fame, work, everything."

>"Oh Phindela, my own little Phindela, how I long to be with you. I am trembling and shivering as if ants were crawling all over me from my brain down to my cock. When the coach will at long last bring you back I’ll cling so hard that for a whole week you won’t be able to get me out of your des durka. Bother all inspiration, ideas and works of art. Let my works vanish up that black hole forever.[…] I kiss you all over your dear little body and inside."

>>71301018
Kek

>>71301018
Is this real?

>tfw we lost a Chopin piano concerto cause of this slut

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>>71301018
>You will never be this thirsty for sex
I bet Chopin composed music because it was the only way he could get women to fuck that ugly mug of his

>>71301057
it's obviously fake

>>71301057
Honestly considering his terrible aptitude for anything not involving strictly the piano, it probably isn't a huge loss. Neither of his concerti strike me as the best of his works.

>>71300840
That was nice, thank you!

Do you know of any pieces that uses E maj or A maj but with string instruments?

>>71301057
It's from a letter dated from 1833. Phindela is an anagram of Delphina.

Delphina regularly fucked other men behind his back.

I've just rented a piano, here's a set of variation on Ode to Joy. Am I musical?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMNzm8HZVsM&feature=youtu.be

Is /classical/'s music taste is really that bad or just a ruse to ward off newcomers?

>>71301215
it's just retarded unfunny fags being edgelords like the rest of 4chan

>>71301018
"*** you is my favourite occupation
Bed beats inspiration
I long for your lovely tits
So says your faithful Fritz"

Whoa... was Chopin the world's first hiphop artist?

>>71301419
no that's john skelton

>>71295952
>>71296317
The best part of being a /classical/-fag isn't listening to the music, it's showing everyone else that I do.

>>71301018
Was he gay, i mean he was this gentle week feminin man who fell in love with george sand, she drest like a man and smoked a cigar.

why the fuck is there a Glass symphony based on a Bowie album lmao

>>71301202
Did you really spend money to record this garbage?

>>71302071
It's literally my first attempt at playing piano. I've just looked on the internet how to play triads.
I'll start taking lessons in 2 weeks from now.

>>71296110
dat monteverdi choir

>>71302114
Oh, so it was a first attempt? Then it is actually quite good (for your level).

What are some conductors to avoid like the Plague? Already know of Dudamel, Karajan and André Rieu.

>>71302241
Berenboim

>>71302241
anyone after 1950

>>71302241
It be better to ask what conductors /classical/ does approve since the list to avoid is so long.

>>71302263
This, avoid him also as a pianist.
It doesn't get more shallow than that.

>>71301640
He wrote a letter to a male friend saying how much he wanted to kiss him so he was likely bisexual at the very least

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>ludwig van beethoven lived among his own feces

>>71287013
test

I have Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach
any other noteworthy composers?
>>>/t/672506

>>71302786
Nah, that's pretty much it.

>>71302697
>>71302786

bog

>>71302241
i don't really think Karajan should absolutely be avoided, he has some stuff he's good in.

honestly, i dunno if i can think of any conductors that are absolutely terrible in every regard. even some of the ones that i largely dislike, like Norrington, have a few recordings which i think are good.

>>71302241
you asked this question already asshole

>>71302818
ebin xDDDD

>>71302875
You're mistaking me for someone else

>>71302862
What is the stuff Karanjan's good at?

>>71302933
>What is the stuff Karanjan's good at?
Beethovo, Bruhmm and Mahlu

>>71302933
>Conductors to avoid? Already know of Karajan and Dudamel.

yeah ok

>>71302933
very late romantics (with a few exceptions), early/mid 20th century

in particular i think he's good with Strauss and Sibelius. they benefit from his homogenized sound. sure, you can argue that there's better conductors for those composers, but he's a perfectly reasonable option.

and in general when you're not listening to his studio recordings, he comes across as more interesting, since you actually get a better grasp on his orchestral balances/dynamics, which were often fucked up in the studio.

>>71302962
no, he's pretty bad at all of those. a few exceptions for Beethoven, perhaps, but only selectively and from when he was young and taking comparatively more risks.

>>71302933
Wagner

>>71302967
That's just a coincidence, Dudamel.

I can't be Mozart, there's no way I could live that long

>>71302241
Why avoid Dudamel?

>>71303033
Never liked Karajan's Sibelius but yes he is ideal for Strauss and Tchaikovsky's symphonies. He has good spots in other composers, his German Requiem is my favourite, he does an interesting stab at the 2nd Viennese, perhaps not the best but good for such a dedicated romanticist. I think where he does best is in opera but then that had a lot to do with being able to command some of the top tier singing talent.

Do you guys think Glenn Gould killed himself?

serialism more like sounds like someone is folding together a lounger on top of a pianoism

>>71303390
i don't know if i'd coin Karajan as a romanticist, honestly. it's hard to categorize him, but he certainly wasn't romantic in the way that, say, Furtwangler was, who is sort've his musical antithesis.

in my opinion, Karajan lies somewhere between the post-Stokowski conducting style of "beauty in sound" and the more modern "objective" style.

>>71299075
ChopinxLiszt are OTP

You guys are talking about Karajan, so let me ask: I always thought he was boring as f, is there any piece in which he excels?

>>71303787
I really can't think of any, the one thing he is good at is being solid and consistent, perhaps too consistent for many but if anything excels in his recordings it is usually the soloist. Probably his best stand out work as a conductor is his Ring Cycle as it significantly different to most conductor's interpretation.

>>71303787
there's a pretty good Ein Heldenleben from Moscow. his Elektra is pretty good as well. he never conducted the work in the studio because he said the work was emotionally wrecking for him, or something.

>>71301215
It's plain bad. I've never seen anyone who unironically loves Schubert except /mu/.

I know jack shit about classical music. I want to download some to listen to while doing homework. Where should I start?

>>71304202
Beethoven.

>>71301215
>>71301231
case in point: >>71304100

>>71304202
>while doing homework

Don't bother, learn to study in silence.

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>>71298835
>>71298978
>>71299075
>time for the monthly cleaning bogbilly
>now where'd you stash that last pot?
>NEINNEINNEINNEIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IS NOT FULL OF SCHEISSE IS FULL OF IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!
>don't be feisty or i'll send for wolfgang again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-zLjvmJOY

What piece is this lads?

>>71304202
>>71290323
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvLXGJldWLU

>>71304919
>posting handel

your want to get hit?

>>71304776
Shostakovich 1st symphony I think.

>>71305016
Handel is underrated

>>71305016
what's wrong? can't handel it?

>>71305204
go away CLT

>>71305016
PRAISE YE THE LORD FOR ALL HIS MERCIES PAST
WHOSE TRUTH, WHOSE JUSTICE WILL FOREVEER LAAAAST

http://www.youdubber.com/index.php?video=ufwvFOXUCnc&video_start=0&audio=KYouXtuk0T8&audio_start=9

Peat and turf cutting.

bog

>>71305259
Grieg > Chopin

>>71305743
Honestly just about everyone is better than Chopin

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>>71305787

Except the entities which dwell in their own excrement, don't qualify as Human, and thus are not included in "everyone".

only good classical composers are
Cage
Stockhausen
Ligeti
Schaeffer

>>71306051
None of those are classical composers

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>>71306051

>>71306051
and smetana

>>71305787
whats wrong with chopin?

>>71305743
This I agree with, Also Beethoven, Scriabin, and Faure>>>>>>>>everyone else

>>71306549
what's not wrong with chopin

>>71305995

>very wise people
>they put MUD on their HEADS

Petzold

Dvorak's Requiem is:

>>71308971
Something I wasn't aware existed.

>>71291834
I cry every time.

>>71308971
idk I've never heard it

>>71308971
shit

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*blocks your path*

>>71309643
you should have said *Bachs your path*

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>>71309746

>>71308971
Beautiful, as is his Stabat Mater

>>71309805
he did come to mind

>>71306549
All memes aside, I've very recently begun to feel that his themes and harmonies are really, really unconvincing. Recently meaning over the past year or so and this is something that has absolutely nothing to do with /classical/ or anything I've read online.

I personally view him as an okay composer but an excellent pianist - his leverage of the (at the time) unique properties of the piano and his attention to concepts such as phrasing via fingering are great and I can appreciate what he accomplished for piano pedagogy as a whole but his value as a musician begins and ends with the piano. I see this description applied to Liszt all the time but it couldn't be further from the truth, Liszt was a phenomenal composer that needlessly tainted some of his greatest ideas in the pursuit of virtuosity.

There's something so cloying and overtly dramatic about everything Chopin wrote. I now find it nauseating to listen to large amounts of his music in succession because of how god damn homogenous it sounds. Bear in mind I've studied piano for 19 years, I played through all four of his ballades when I was still in high school, I own Nikita Magaloff's box set of his complete piano works as well as dozens of individual albums of his music, and I recently noticed that I haven't felt compelled to listen or perform any of it in what feels like the longest time.

I don't know what to say other than it just doesn't move me anymore. I don't think he can even begin to hold a candle to some of the other Romantics - Liszt, Schumann, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, Medtner - when it comes to thematic material and compositional merit alone.

His only sets that I still care about are the mazurkas and (very underrated) lieder. I would take Scriabin's single polonaise over every single one Chopin ever wrote other than the Op. 22. I would take Scriabin's 42-5 and 42-8 over the entire Op. 10 and 25. I would take Scriabin's second and fifth sonatas over literally EVERYTHING Chopin ever wrote.

Petzold.

>>71310125
but his fugue tho

Is there anything similar to Nodame Cantabile? Already watched Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso.

Doesn't necessarily need to be chinese stuff.

>>71311454
Fuck off. Go ask this shit on >>>/a/ although I think suicide would be a better course of action for you, weeb trash.

>>71309643
>>71309746
>*Bach's your path*
>*unsheathes cantata*
>Nuthin Polyphonic, kid

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>>71311454
Nope Nodame is still the gold standard.

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Which female pianists have the best facial expressions while playing?

>>71312589
probably martha argerich but i haven't seen her videos

>>71312589
https://youtu.be/z63g6bTBclE?t=1315

she has a great personality

regardless I think this video and most of her performances in general are better enjoyed with the sound completely off

>>71312746
i like her "personality"

>>71312003
Go suck Petzold's dick.

>>71312746
Is she a jew or a gypsy?

>>71313330
Literally nothing in the world would make me happier (other than the genocide of all anime watching faggots, of course)

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>>71313442
Isthatso.png

>>71313348
looks gypsy

Pet is old.

>>71309643

*bogs your path*

Can you guys help me? I'm trying to find the original source of this excerpt that starts at 1:41. I've no clue, sounds like something from Giya Kancheli, but I couldn't find anything sounding similar to this in his body of work.

>1:41
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lMYgn1O4ww

>>71310125
To be fair most of his repertoire is meant to be played in cozy, dimly lit, bourgeoise salons.

Very few of his compositions were meant to be played in front of large audiences, and I'm pretty sure Chopin did not account for people being able to listen to his music from a computer or a stereo.

That said yeah, he wasn't so great as a composer. He found his voice early on (basically in his early teenagehood) and mantained it for his whole life, having only one minor revolution in his entire lifetime (the introduction of folk polish elements in his music, wich started in his early 20s, but that's it).
It may be a bit too unfair, but I feel that most of his music is meant to be treated as background music.

>>71301215

jaded people is more like it. that's what you get for consuming too much music and turning it into a chore

>>71310125

There are only a handful of good Chopin interpretations. No one could play his music like he did even back when he was alive. The stereotypical way he's played nowadays is the worst way to play anything. You could play any music, including Bog, like that and it would sound just as awful. I mean on top of how awful Bog already sounds...Beethoven might benefit from it though. Anyway, here's how it's supposed to sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiGDB5jVl0

This is a bad interpretation and recording by any measure. But still better than any of the household names, including Rubinstein's. There was another one on soundcloud that I can't find right now. Really clanging midi, very solid dynamics overall though. Will post later.

the only composer worth listening to is sousa
prove wrong
protip: you can't

>>71316914
bitch please everyone knows the two greatest composers are eric whitacre and robert w. smith

>>71316914
You've mispelled John Cage.

>>71316912
>No one could play his music like he did even back when he was alive
Nice fanfiction

Joseph Marx
https://youtu.be/owOddl5Cqr0

Give me a short theme in C
I will write a shitty fugue on in within minutes

>>71317916

Nice bogmixture.

>>71316912
>No one could play his music like he did even back when he was alive.
Right, and you know exactly how he played his music...how? Did you hear him perform? Because all we know are relative descriptions of how he played his music. Not to mention that we know for a fact that Chopin played his music differently quite often, as do many performers. The point is that we don't have anything like a piano roll from Chopin, so to say that no one else could play his music like he could, and then going on to use this as an excuse for his music (in response to >>71310125), it makes you come across as someone who is just making bullshit up to defend a favored composer of yours. We will never know how exactly he performed his music. You could've made up a million more arguments for Chopin's music, but instead you fell back on the laziest one. We don't know whether or not Chopin's method of performance was groundbreaking on his music or not, or, likewise, whether there have been any other performers that have had roughly the same approach that he did. You cannot even begin to approach such an assertion unless you've heard the great majority of Chopin performances out there, which I very much doubt you have.

>Anyway, here's how it's supposed to sound
>This is a bad interpretation and recording by any measure
Got it. So to play Chopin the correct way you have to interpret it in a bad manner. Genius.

Mass in B minor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShYiihooSa0

What are you anons giving up for Lent?

>>71318685
>but instead you fell back on the laziest one.
You're replying to the same person who has been spamming the same tired meme with the same reaction images for a year now.

You're replying to the same person who was too lazy to google something simple and instead had to spam his retarded question in the thread for days, all the while throwing a fit as everyone ignored him over and over.

Of course he's lazy. He's just a shitposter fishing for (You)s and most of the time he doesn't even get those. I remember that one time where he got banned and the mod deleted all his posts in the thrrad, most of the replies to his posts were from himself. The dude obviously has some sort of mental issue.

>>71318750
Bogmusic

>>71318750
Catholicism :^)

Does anyone have the John Kirkpatrick performance of Ives' Piano Sonata?

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Suzuki and his gang does it again.

Maybe not as good as the Fricsay overall, but the edition is much better

>>71318685
>Right, and you know exactly how he played his music...how?
Not him, but Chopin actually left us a method for piano, wich differs from most other piano methods. That should give us an idea that is clear enough.
For example we know for a fact that 99% of Chopin technique is based on colour, and that at the times this was so evident that his music was associated to poetry. Also tons of his letters and in his piano method itself, he stresses the emphasis that he puts on the importwnce of the hand position when playing the piano, since every different position and fingering create a different tone (and this should be exploited).
Given these characteristics it is fair to assume that 99% of the interpretations of his music are wrong, since you need obsessive care in order to give it justice. Since Chopin music is so often used for didactic purposes, and since it is so much based on details, phrasing and the most intimate knowledge of one hands and instrument, it is fair to say that Chopin is the most misinterpreted composer in our repertoire.
I honestly dont know why did that anon link that terrible interpretation, though.

>Got it. So to play Chopin the correct way you have to interpret it in a bad manner. Genius.
A wrong interpretation can still sound beautiful. Glenn Gould based his entire career on this concept.

>>71287778
Start by learning an instrument
Preferably piano or guitar and start training your ear by transcribing simple pieces by ear, afterwards after about three months start learning music theory and making your own pieces

>>71312333
faggot

>>71299693
pls respond

>>71319214
Pez told me

>>71319149
>For example we know for a fact that 99% of Chopin technique is based on colour, and that at the times this was so evident that his music was associated to poetry. Also tons of his letters and in his piano method itself, he stresses the emphasis that he puts on the importwnce of the hand position when playing the piano, since every different position and fingering create a different tone (and this should be exploited).
Yes, but as I said, these are relative details. Details which can mean different things to different people. We know the generalities of his technique, especially once we get into recorded artists who have as close of a line to his style that you can (generations apart, yes, but better than nothing), but we don't "truly" know what the finer points of his style were.

>Given these characteristics it is fair to assume that 99% of the interpretations of his music are wrong
A statistic which you have no evidence for since I very much doubt you've heard 99% of the interpretations which exist. I realize you're just trying to illustrate a point here, but it's kind of silly to make up numbers.

>Since Chopin music is so often used for didactic purposes, and since it is so much based on details, phrasing and the most intimate knowledge of one hands and instrument, it is fair to say that Chopin is the most misinterpreted composer in our repertoire.
Honestly you could make that argument for a lot of composers. It's a bit hyperbolic to suggest that Chopin is a special case.

>>71319149
>A wrong interpretation can still sound beautiful. Glenn Gould based his entire career on this concept.
Yes, but in the context of >>71316912 he said, "here's how it's supposed to sound." Which suggests that he's attributing a degree of authenticity to it, and then he turns around and calls it bad. It's silly.

Petzold

>>71296162
first, can you read music? do you have a piano or even a keyboard in your house?

>>71320265
>>71319207
>first, can you read music?

I'm learning in these days how to do so. I'm learning somewhat fast, and I can already do solfage at a decent speed in treble and bass clef. I still can't recognize chords, though (but I guess it's normal, since I still don't know the theory behind them).
>do you have a piano or even a keyboard in your house?
I have a piano in my house, I've just started taking lessons (the first one was 2 days ago, I'll take them daily).

>>71320143
>these are relative details
They are not, since Chopin left us a direct account of how he positioned his hands. Of course that's not objective, but it's still a great approximation.
Also, as I've stated earlier, all of his critics put great emphasis on certain aspect of his playing, so we have to assume that those aspects were, in fact, extremely uncommon. Always remember that Chopin did not have a classical formal training, and that is technique was considered revolutionary in the sense that it contained no reference to prior styles.
>A statistic which you have no evidence for since I very much doubt you've heard 99% of the interpretations which exist. I realize you're just trying to illustrate a point here, but it's kind of silly to make up numbers.
I think it's fair to say this, since even pianists as qualified as Liszt told us the same thing. Chopin wasn't just another pianist, he was a guy who, from nowhere and from no foundation, came up with a way of playing piano that was simply unheard of, and that the proficiency required to give it justice was vast.
A good interpretation of Chopin should make all of these pros evident, apparent, to a point where you should have no doubt about it. I don't think that's the case with most of the interpretations that we can listen to nowadays.

When the accounts of his technique (wich include the greatest virtuosos of his time, Liszt and Alkan) are so enthusiastic we just HAVE to assume that you have to be an incredible pianist to play this music properly, being a virtuoso just won't be enough.
>Honestly you could make that argument for a lot of composers.
I don't think so. Why should I put so much emphasis on the phrasing and the pianistic details when talking about Brahms or Schumann?
These are considerations that can be made for very few composers (Liszt and Debussy, for example), they're not general at all.

>>71320157
Yeah, i was just splitting hairs, I don't know too why has he linked that performance.

>>71320481
I suppose my point is is that we have no way of completely knowing concrete details about how he played, nothing that cannot inevitably be subject to interpretation, at least. And that's why I have an issue with claiming an idea of authenticity. We can study his metronome markings, we can study his hand positioning, we can study the peformers/teachers he admired, like Liszt, Clara Schumann, and Leschetizky, and study their styles and their students styles, but we can still only arrive at an approximation, and, as you say, since his technique was unorthodox for its time, we could be completely wrong on a few details. Tradition is a mess. It's because of this that I don't like thinking about it too much since it can drive you nuts with all the "ifs."

I'll agree with you that his style, or, rather, our ideas of what his style may resemble, is largely dead. But there are so many performers, so I simply don't know how "dead" that style indeed is. 99%? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I realize I'm being autistic about details here, though, I get your point.

Personally I think the worst discrepancy in Chopin interpretation between then and now is the individual voicing of the left and right hand. Too many pianists do not highlight the contrapuntal underlinings of Chopin's writing (which Rosen claims is influenced from his Chopin's love of Bach), much of which is only evident to the ear if one hears the distinct voices from the two hands, much like how contrapuntal detail is lost in the orchestral sense when one homogenizes the first and second violins. That isn't to mention rubato, which most performers are complete pussies about these days.

>>71320481
>I don't think so. Why should I put so much emphasis on the phrasing and the pianistic details when talking about Brahms or Schumann?
Well, I don't know about Schumann, but I do not that there is some pretty bad discrepancies between Brahms' performance expectations and the performances we have now, in particular there are many letters where he writes to conductors and performers and stresses things like sharp rhythmic contrasts and what-not. I would suggest to you that the romantic style in general is largely dead, so that's why you can make an argument for many composers during that timeframe and suggest that the majority of them are wrongly performed.

You can go back further to, say, Renaissance performance styles or even older performance styles and though there has been a wealth of good research done on the subject in that regard, the fact of the matter is is that many details are fuzzy, and will remain so since it's so old and the traditions are blurred.

>>71320319
start by playing around with the piano until you get the basic melody that you want. then write it down with pencil and paper, don't spend money or learn how to use some notation software, pencil and paper is faster and cheaper. once you have a hard copy of the basic melody, start experimenting, try to add some chords or something more complex, just keep adding on to the basic melody that you have in your head, you can use it as like a foundation. once you find something you like, write it down so you don't forget it. just keep experimenting and if something sounds right, keep it. eventually you will have a good piece. it takes time so be patient. take music theory lessons online or in person, http://www.musictheory.net/lessons is a good website to use, eventually you can start adding in instruments to make the sound more diverse if you want. for this you should use a notation software like musescore. above all tbis takes patience so just keep going with one project, don't start a new one until you finish what you were working on or throw it out completely

>>71320784
>Leschetizky
Oh, I'm an idiot btw
I thought I read that the two knew each other, but it looks like I'm probably wrong about that.

Though Leschetizky produced a lot of great Chopin players, in my view

>>71320481
if Wagneranon was around he could probably persuade you that he was just as badly performed as Chopin. Renaissanceanon could probably do the same

honestly those two knew so much about vocals that i have a feeling they were the same person

Mazurkas are the best thing that Chopin wrote

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>>71318750
tonality

>>71320784
Well, there have been a few recorded pianists that can be regarded as "authentic" Chopin performers.

The foremost being Francis Plante who was hailed as the leading pianist in Paris at the time, second only to Chopin himself. He accompanied many of the great composers of his day and is the only recorded artist that had heard Chopin play firsthand. There are a couple videos of him playing Chopin out there and they are really fucking phenomenal, I've never heard 10-7 performed so well and I think his recording was the first one that made me legitimately appreciate the musical character of that study in particular.

The issue with them is that, as you say, that style of playing is mostly "dead", so all the remnants we have from that period are very low quality and difficult to really dig into. His playing is splendid enough even then but it's quite obvious that many of the nuances are lost to technology.

Although he had never heard Chopin play and didn't possess any direct ties to him, I'd argue that Josef Lhevinne can be regarded as an authentic Chopin performer if only for his manner of playing. He speaks about his method in his short volume on the principles of piano playing and it is extremely similar to what we know about that of Chopin's. The issue here is that he performed on the typical modern concert grand piano which is very slightly different in tone and behavior from the early 19th century pianoforte thus making it difficult to judge how well his approach carries over.

I agree 100% with your point regarding voicing and especially counterpoint.

>>71321483
Lhevinne is indeed phenomenal.

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Best century?

http://poal.me/izs1xt

>>71321595
Music only really existed in the 18th, 19th, and early 20th centuries

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>>71318685
>So to play Chopin the correct way you have to interpret it in a bad manner. Genius.

This is textbook bogbilly "thinking". BEEP-BOP-IF-THEN-DOMINANT-TONIC-MERP

>>71321968
he used your words, though. that's basically what you said

i guess you are a bog yourself

>>71321968
I was paraphrasing you.

>>71321968
God, you're so fucking stupid

inb4 generic "lmao bogbilly" response as per your usual clowny non-retorts

Petzold

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>>71322028

Playing it badly is better than playing it disjointed and pp all the way through which barely qualifies as playing music in general. She's much closer to the mark than most people, while still being very far.

>>71322069

There are plenty of videos on youtube where they explain elementary logic using colored geometric shapes and video game characters. Look up "if a is b then b is a".

>>71322162
You should follow your own advice, considering you cannot even logically connect your own thoughts, to the point of contradicting to yourself.

>>71322135
you literally said that the performance you linked is how Chopin should sound, then you said the interpretation is bad. these two statements are in direct contradiction to one another.

you say "most people" which implies that you probably have an idea of better performers, so why didn't you link that if the performer you linked was bad?

>>71322184

Where did I contradict myself?

>>71322239
>Anyway, here's how it's supposed to sound
>This is a bad interpretation and recording by any measure

You suggested that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiGDB5jVl0 was how Chopin should sound, and then you turned around and claimed that it was a bad interpretation. So which is it?

>>71322239
im starting to think you're a schizo at this point

might explain why you constantly reply to your own posts and have conversations with yourself

>>71322238

There's no contradiction you autistic fuck. The one I linked has terrible execution but the ideal it falls short off is very close to if not the ideal way Chopin should be played. Most people's interpretations are bad regardless of execution since they're based on bad ideas that have nothing to do with how Chopin intended his music to be played, and have nothing to do with good music in general.

What are some good recordings of Schuberts symphonies?

>>71322372
interpretation =/= execution

i cant believe i have to explain something so elementary to you. obviously you just communicated your ideas wrong due to ignorance

>>71322286
>>71322309

>>71322372

This is staggering autism. Even for bogtards.

>IF DOMINANT 7 STEPS FROM TONIC THEN TONIC 7 STEPS FROM DOMINANT GRRRR

>>71322406

What's the difference?

>>71322372
Then you should have just said "this performance is an ideal interpretation, but it could be better in regards to the technicalities."

The ability to execute and the ability to perform are two different things. How stupid are you?

>>71322409
And now you're throwing a fit. How cute.

By the way, I don't even have a German in my top 5, and Chopin's probably my favorite composer period. Sorry to disappoint your stereotype.

>>71322409
assburgers-kun please calm down

you're getting butt blasted just like last time

>>71322427
>The ability to execute and the ability to perform are two different things.
*The ability to execute and the ability to interpret are two different things
Is what I meant to post

>>71322388
This is how I think Schubert should sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AhXXLsajY4

Well, the interpretation is actually horrible, but, hey, it's better than most!

>>71322427
>>71322437
>>71322445

>>71322422
>What's the difference?

>>71322388
Böhm/Dresden for the 9th
Walter/Columbia for 5th
Walter/NYPhil for unfinished

>>71322286
>>71322372
Where is this performance from anyway?

Did you honestly just put in a search for that particular piece and sort by views ascending and then randomly pick a video? I find it hard to believe anyone would specifically elect this dogshit as a "proper Chopin performance", the performer is clearly an amateur that's still grappling with technique let alone interpretation and musical maturity.

Is this you, bogposter? Are you the girl in the video? You sure do argue like a woman, you incoherent mess. I can't believe you've riled up so many people with your low effort shitposts, how do you do it?

>>71322422
interpretation is how you think a piece should sound

execution is how you translate those ideas into actual peformance

are you an ESL or something or a non-performer?

>>71322482
>I can't believe you've riled up so many people with your low effort shitposts, how do you do it?
He/she/it is an idiot and most of the replies to his posts are from himself.

>>71322478
>Böhm/Dresden for the 9th
Not a bad choice desu.

Usually I disagree with your performance tastes, CLT, but that is a pretty good one. Much better than his Berlin effort.

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>>71322482

>can't understand one iota of non-numeric logic
>accuses other or arguing like an anything

Good shit.

>Did you honestly just put in a search for that particular piece and sort by views ascending and then randomly pick a video?

Yeah, I try to avoid letting others tell me what music I should listen to, hence my hatred of bogbillies.

>>71322467
Can't believe so many people unironically bought this guy's records.

>>71322538
So you could believe it if they only did it ironically?

>>71322489

How does this support your argument of me contradicting myself?

>>71322509

The only one posting repetitive comments and talking to yourself here is you, moron.

>>71322532
way to ignore everything he said and fall back on ad hom

really gets those brain juices flowing

>>71322559
you said the interpretation is bad, but from your other posts it seems like your primary issue was with its execution. they are not the same thing. thus, your original statement where you insinuated that Chopin should sound like "this" but that it was also a "bad interpretation," was non-sensical

i am spelling this out to you for the 5th time and i cant believe you need me to hold your hand with this. well, i suppose you also had to have your hand held with basic google searching that one time, lol

>>71322529
>Much better than his Berlin effort.
Absolutely.

>>71322581
With that kind of projection you could run a movie theater.

>>71322538
A shit ton of marketing and a handsome German man on the cover will do that

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>>71322388
Best set I've heard.

>>71322730
Immerseel is pretty good too. I think wish the brass sounded a little less crass, though. I think it's the period instruments.

I really want to hear Immerseel in Brahms, I think he could do a lot of justice there.

>>71322641

Yes, it's a quantitatively very lacking but qualitatively very good. It's only nonsensical or contradictory through that pinhole you perceive the world through.

>>71322669

With that kind of empty repetition you could write a fugue.

>>71322815
ah, i see you're definition-fluid

well, whatever makes you feel better i guess. you're a lot more embarrassing than i thought, though.

>>71322837
Strange. I don't think I recall repeating that. A tad bit nonsensical of you, friend.

>>71322857

Let's do a test instead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBiGDB5jVl0

Imagine this a shack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ8RVjm49hE

Imagine this is a bog.

Now, where would you rather spend the night?

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I love this string quartet, should I move to his late string quartets? or stick with his early and middle quartets before moving onto his late, since from what I've gathered his late quartets are masterpieces and are "the ultimate in Quartet writing" To add to that question what are some of the best recordings of his late quartets?

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>This is the second time bogfag has exploded into a meandering, non-nonsensical mess after getting BTFO in regards to Chopin
Kek

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>>71322953

If you're picking the shack, you will be nonsensically sleeping, just letting you know.

>>71323040

What argument did I lose?

Also, which is it? Shack or bog?

>>71322953

>>71323039
the middle period has a few alright quartets like Rasumovsky 2, but, yeah, it's his late period which is the most interesting. try Op. 130 and then 132. i'm not that fond of 135, presonally

i think the megas in the OP have a few good performances

>>71323039
The Budapest String Quartet is my favorite in those pieces

>>71323039
>"the ultimate in Quartet writing"

That would be Mozart's Haydn quartets, actually.

>>71323140
I thought Schubert's 15th was your favorite

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>>71323039
Busch and Hollywood are good if you don't mind old meme quality.

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>>71322953

...sure got quiet it here all of the sudden.

>>71322953
Christ, he's really gone off his rocker now, you guys...

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I love K. 563 so fucking much

>>71323249

Which one?

>>71323105
I realise that his late quartets are his obvious best, but I wanted to not instantly right off his early and middle quartets, just for completionist sake I suppose. I enjoy No.3 and 4, but have yet to listen to the rest of his early quartets.
>try Op. 130 and then 132. i'm not that fond of 135, presonally
Will do, appreciated.

>>71323132
>>71323169
I appreciate these recommendations.

>>71323140
I 100% agree. Just parodying Gramophone critics who circle jerk his late quartets.

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post your battlestations

pic is mine

I'm not that crazy anon, but what he's saying he's not nonsensical.

I'll give you an example (but I cant back it up with the actual material, since it's nowhere to be found on spotify and youtube, you can download it anyway on soulseek).
Tatiana Nikolayeva plays a beautiful Art of Fugue by Bach, but it's technically all wrong. The voices are all drown up by the pedals and the aesthetic is explicitly romantic. It is a beautiful rendition of this music, but it's all wrong, to the point where a kids playing it, missing all the voices and phrasing but without the pedal would be closer to the original music than what this virtuoso is doing.

I guess this anon meant that when he posted that unskilled pianist playing that Chopin prelude. I don't really know why he picked that in particular, but the logic behind what he's saying is not contradictory at its core.

>>71323279

Someone make the new thread, I need to post the shack/bog analogy because it's actually important.

>>71323340
that's not quite right but i'm done feeding that schizo attention-whore

>>71323433
>>71322953

It's an easy enough question.

>>71323433
Why not?
>i'm done feeding that schizo attention-whore
Again, I'm not him, I'm this guy >>71319149, I've made the same exact point hours ago.

What's wrong with what I'm saying?

>>71323479
>Again, I'm not him, I'm this guy >>71319149, I've made the same exact point hours ago.
yeah, i know.

>>71323433
>>71323448

>realized his original argument was null
>realized he can't actually argue or think
>i'm d-done guys

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>>71323433
>yfw you lost the argument despite not knowing what it is and not really arguing

>>71323602
>>71323040

No idea who that was but it looks like /classical/ left /classical/ now.

>>71323748
New thread
>>71323748

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Over the course of March and April, I'm going to listen to all 104 of Haydn's symphonies, Grieg's solo piano works, Lassus' Choral works and Beethoven's 32 piano sonatas. Is it possible? or is it just too much music

>>71323834
If you listen a couple hours a day you could pull it off

When did you realize period instruemtns and performances are almost entirely irrelevant?

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>>71318285

>>71323834
It will make you hate Haydn. Because you'll get burned out on it.