Why has such a small-time microgenre like hip-hop been given

Jay Z has topped the charts with every record he's released. White guilt only goes so far.

>>70921388
Yeah but he's been producing turd for like 15 years

>>70921346
Hip hop today like techno us 35/40 years old both have multiple substyles and are as old as rock was in the 90s.

Was rock still a microgenre in 1992?

I think rap is to rock what novels are to poems
They're both the same art
But the way their ideas and styles are conveyed is vastly different, and for that reason shouldn't be judged on the same merits

everyday that passes, i convince myself more and more that labeling music in genres is useless

>>70921346
same reason why you wasted time making this thread

>>70921346
For real, can someone explain why there's barely any rap artists who are consistently praised? It's literally "peaks: the genre". I enjoy rap and hip hop plenty but I just see so many artists dropping a "seminal" release, then falling off, or having a decent run of a few albums then falling off, like OP said.

Kendrick and maybe RTJ are the only rappers of the 2010s I can think of who are consistently good and respected across audiences and critics alike, yet everyone is like "Oh yeah hip hop is in a renaissance period right now". Is it racism or some shit?

>>70922233
Plenty in the "underground" scene.

>>70922271
Such as?

And they aren't really critically acclaimed OR commercially acclaimed if they're "underground". That's kind of what the OP and I are both getting at. Very few rap artists marry commercial success with critical success for more than one or two albums even though it's been around for over 30 years now. Why?

I JUST FUCKED YOUR BITCH IN SOME GUCCI FLIP FLOPS

>>70922233
There has been many hip hop artists with long and good careers. Losing your touch after an album or two is something that happens in rock music just as much...

People like DOOM, Madlib, Del, Dilla, Qtip, Aesop, Driver, Kweli, and many more come to mind.

>>70922402
>Losing your touch after an album or two is something that happens in rock music just as much...

The most acclaimed acts of the '60s and '70s, of which there are many, didn't experience this though. In the '80s and '90s, yeah, it became a bit more common for rock acts to drop an album or two then fall off. There are some key exceptions like the Cure, the Smiths, Sonic Youth, probably some others.

>People like DOOM, Madlib, Del, Dilla, Qtip, Aesop, Driver, Kweli, and many more come to mind.

Some names I don't here, pardon my partial ignorance as I'm no aficionado (hence me asking this).

>DOOM
Only 2, MAYBE 3 commercially successful albums, released 5 years apart. Nothing for over a decade.

>Madlib
My favorite hip hop artist by a country mile. We all know how great his collaborations are, but even he has only had two commercially successful solo albums, and they were over a decade apart.

>Del
Deltron 3030 is literally the only album he's put his name to that's commercially and critically acclaimed, and that was over a decade ago.

>Dilla
Released one album that was received well commercially and critically then died.

>Aesop
Frequently shit on among my HHH friends, idk why. I like him. Regardless, he's pretty consistent in terms of popularity, but he hasn't been the focus of widespread acclaim in over a decade.

I don't know Qtip, Driver, or Kweli, sorry. I've listened to the rest, and I either enjoy or REALLY love all of the artists/albums you listed, but I don't see how you can deny that many of them are one-or-two-offs despite being active since the early 00s at the very latest.

Geetar music is dated. Hip-hop instrumentals evolve more dynamically than traditional instruments due to the wider range of sounds you can experiment with. Concerning the lyrics, I enjoy the subject matter much more than rock's themes.
That being said, Nas is very overrated

>>70922541
I think you are mistaking commercial success with critical acclaim though. Whilst not mutually exclusive you can't just ignore the good artist presented to you because some of their albums weren't commercially successful

>>70921676
thanks anon.

>>70921413
faaxxx b

>>70922356
Every album kanye drops shoots straight to the top of the charts while also changing the game and garnering pretty widespread acclaim. honestly really surprised no one else is talking about him in this thread because its a pretty perfect example.

>>70922700
I'm not ignoring them, I love most of the artists you mentioned. But the OP, and I, are both pointing out that rap music hardly marries critical acclaim with commercial acclaim like rock music did in its heyday. Why? How? I can't feasibly think of an answer other than rap's renaissance period being during a digital era where pirating and streaming is much more popular than purchasing music.

>>70923795
Kanye doesn't get widespread acclaim, m9. He hasn't been relevant to critics since 2010, other than pitchfork (lol).

>>70921346
I noticed you left out Funkadelic, Hendrix, Parliament, and Chuck Berry from the rock greats -- want to start explaining?

>>70923956
He hates the blacks, obviously.

The actual answer was none of those barring maybe Funkadelic match his description of artists who had a very long run of critically and commercially acclaimed albums.

>>70921346
Hip hip/ Rap artists are currently making better music than any other artists in any other genre at the moment. No one cares about that white guilt bullshit except liberals and instigators like yourself

>>70923895
tlop - "mostly positive reviews"
Yeezus - "widespread critical acclaim"
you're on the internet right now, just look it up, critics still love riding the yeezy stick

>>70924090
Yeezus only has an 84%, TLOP a 75%. Not really "riding dick". Compare that to MBDTF's 94%.

>>70924143
those are still really good scores from critics. and i don't really think critics ride his dick i was just taking a piss.

>>70922541
I don't really know too much about commercial success except for acts that were significantly huge, but as for critical acclaim, which is the important factor honestly, I don't think you have it quite right:

DOOM: Operation Doomsday came out 1999. His last great album was Born Like That 2009 - a decade later. Between the two he put out classics like Madvillainy, MM Food, The Mouse and the Mask, and more. DOOM had one of the most solid and fruitful careers in hip hop so far.

Madlib: not even counting his work before that, he put out the Lootpack album from 99 which is a classic, then went on to release the Quas records, Madvillainy, Beat Konducta, the Jaylib record, Shaded of Blue, and recently Pinata, with no signs of stopping. While not the most consistent, he also has at least a decades worth of great work.

Del: That's just not true man... From the acclaimed I Wish My Brother George, and his next four studio albums until Both Sides of the Brain, followed by Deltron and his work with the Hieroglyphics, he dropped way too many solid records.

Dilla: Produces way too many hip hop classics, and even if you only count solo releases, he has like 3 acclaimed ones. But how can you look over his productions for Slum Village, The Pharcyde, Common? Consistently amazing from the late 90's until his death.

Aesop: actually not the most popular, but releases a very good record every two or three years, and a lot of decent stuff in between, from the late 90's and till this very day.

You are right to say hip hop never really had a huge "superstar" who managed to release a lot of popular AND acclaimed records, no "beatles", and that can be attributed to many factors, but in terms of creative leaders and trendsetters, the genre doesn't lack titans.

>>70924310
btw I forgot to say hip hop DOES have a beatles and his name is Kanye. Don't like many of his recent records? Me neither, but bitches and critics suck him off equally and in enormous numbers.

>>70923996
there is a reason certain greats are given short runs while other "greats" are given long runs. it has to do with the exact mentality the op is using positioning certain rockers as "greats"; warfare on the non-dominant group.

but maybe on a more casual analysis it just has to do with the fact that music has devolved into who can make the best single instead of an album. something that music videos and mp3s contributed heavily to. hip-hop music produces more sonically diverse singles to the public's ear than rock acts do, so it gets more praise.

>>70921346
I find most hiphop/rap artists tend to talk about themselves, their "cred", and/or other people and their "cred". It all just gets a little too 1-dimensional when all they can do is glorify themselves or bastardize their competitors. Not many have much important things too say, which is sad, because that genre of music reaches a lot of people.

Let's look at someone who appears to use his music to say important things as an example. Immortal Technique. Here you have this guy who is trying to draw peoples attention towards global conspiracies and the like. Now instead of focusing his efforts towards that, he still finds it necessary to glorify himself in his lyrics and bastardize others. It's like they can't focus on their art long enough without patting themselves on the back or tearing someone else down because they said something bad about them.

>>70921346
b8

>>70924357
You need to get off your "Reel hip hop" train and enjoy all aspects of hip hop whether it's Young Thug, A$AP Rocky or Immortal Technique, Mos Def's black on both sides is my favourite album of all time but I still enjoy all the music that comes out today. You have to realise that not everyone is capable of talking about big issues or growing up in a bad environment, some people just want to make good enjoyable music and that's fine.

>Now instead of focusing his efforts towards that, he still finds it necessary to glorify himself in his lyrics and bastardize others

Rap has its roots in MC's battling each other to find out who is the better rapper at the end of the day, how do you think Eminem and many more got their careers started?

>>70924459
>and enjoy all aspects of hip hop

Nah, I'm ok. If someone is saying words the whole song, i'd rather them mean something, and not just be a load of shit. I see no reason why good music needs lyrics if those lyrics have no importance.

>>70924459
>how do you think Eminem and many more got their careers started
>Eminem

He's a piece of shit. He only made it big because he hit the market at the perfect time and capitalized on a bunch of underage white kids who were ready and willing. All of his main stream early stuff appeals to young kids who are excited by his use of "bad words", funny lyrics, and goofy sounds. Dr.Dre, and his production team, knew exactly what they were doing with him. They always knew his main target audience was young white people, and they developed him after that to continue to hook that audience as it grew.

>>70924683
Less the case for hip hop, but I'd argue vocals are a very important factor of music melodically, however garbage the content.

Look at Oasis. Anthems with meaningless shite lyrics.

>>70923795
stop sucking his cock, he doesn't change the game, he just rides the wave of what is becoming popular

>>70924310
>DOOM
Was Born Like This really that big of a release? I wasn't a fan of DOOM when it first dropped, but I don't see it talked about at all. Madvillainy is a collaborative album so I was tentative on counting it but I suppose I should.

I certainly think DOOM kicks ass but I feel like his heyday (Mm Food and Madvillainy) was over a decade ago and has since passed, producing three "classics", one with Madlib. An extremely respectful artist, but not exempt from the OP. Has he done other collabs that I should check out?

>Madlib
Like I said, I fucking love Madlib. I've listened to almost everything he's put out. That said, he's something of a Zappa just in terms of releasing a metric fuckton of music with only some of it gaining commercial traction. His biggest project is Madvillainy which many people may not associate his name with, followed by Pinata which was really late into his career.

Also Soundpieces kicks ass but it's pretty obviously not a classic to me. It's a fairly unpopular record by any metric.

>Del
I guess this comes down to taste, but I'm not a big fan of Del outside of Deltron 3030. His solo career is really not great from what I've heard, although his debut solo album is good. His solo work is also pretty unpopular and I think it would be hard to make a claim that it's critically acclaimed, besides his very early efforts. Just for reference, I go by lastfm listeners and rateyourmusic reviews to judge popularity, and Del's popularity basically vanishes after Both Sides.

>Dilla
What acclaimed solo records? None of them get attention besides Donuts. And I like Slum Village's Fantastic, vol 2. but that's about it. Maybe I just haven't explored Dilla enough but I really think you're overstating his popularity. Only a "hip hop head" would be able to recognize anything but Donuts.

I'm not trying to shut down everything you're saying, but I really think your perception of popularity is kind of skewed.

>>70924356
Fair points, esp the second.

>>70924730
This has to be bait, I refuse to accept this isn't bait.

>>70924734
Some wouuld say poetry is meaningless as well.

If the lyrics are poetic, that is, they can have meaning depending on how you precieve them, then there is place for them. Some rap/hip-hop does have decent lyrics, but most don't. Most revlove around drugs, money, women, criminal behavior, sefl gorifying, or bad mouthing others. It may sound catchy with the beats, but ultimately, it's repetitive shit that I'd rather not have infect my brain.

>>70921346
They have - Death Grips are doing it atm

>>70924864
thats not exclusive to hip hop either m8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw_oc6uOLos

>>70924754
im not really sucking his cock, im just saying if you want crossover critical and commercial success look at fucking kanye. because he has both and if you don't see that then you aren't looking, because thats objective fact

>>70924761
I think we definitely have different ideas of what a classic record is. I can admit that I don't have the best grasp of what is or isn't popular in terms of sales and listeners worldwide - so if those are your parameters, you are probably right according to them.

For me, commercial success and popularity among the whole entire world aren't the best ways to evaluate an album. A classic in my book is an album which is widely acclaimed and well known among hip hop listeners.
By the way, why has this discussion steered into popularity and such? OP talked about "legendary albums". Within the boundaries of hip hop and its listeners, for example - DOOM put out like 6 legendary releases (I don't know why would you count out VV and TM&TM, or Born Like This. Let alone not attributing Madvillainy to DOOM...).

>>70925079
>By the way, why has this discussion steered into popularity and such? OP talked about "legendary albums".

I absolutely think that "legendary" should not be handed out to albums that only hardcore fans of the genre or the artist know and enjoy. That's an adjective that's powerful and should be reserved for transcending the barriers of fandom. That's just how I see it/arrived at the discussion of popularity.

>>70922233
That's literally every genre though. Many of the Greats (Beatles, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones) all had bad albums early and later in their discographies. Artists that are great from beginning to end in any field is pretty rare.

>>70921346
No longer a gun to their head. Seriously. From Nas and Supreme Team to Gucci Mane and BMF to A$AP all being blood crew, they are all tied to gangs. Once they recoup enough money to cover their coke debt, they can relax and make shitty music again.

>>70924792
I somehow have been one of those kids and I think he is correct.

>tfw too intelligent for rock

>>70926450
>I somehow have been one of those kids
Of course you fucking have, because the only way anyone could dismiss Em in his prime without feeling like a total moron is if they have a deep rooted shame complex that clouds their judgement of any music they liked as a teenager

>>70924730
lol

File: HELMUTAvatar!2.jpg (4KB, 150x100px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 150x100px

>>70921346
It appeals to the lower standards and shorter attention spans of today's youth. Vulgarity over subtlety, self over community, 808's over complex melody & harmony. We've been in a degenerating modern art feedback loop for awhile now... There is great stuff to be found in the niches, but the trajectory of popular art is dismal.

>>70924730
Relax Cage, sorry el-p dumped you for a fat man

>>70925970
I don't even like the Beatles, Pink Floyd, or the Stones that much but they have all released tons of good varying and diverse albums, way more than any rapper could ever hope to.

>>70926810
Trump will change that. The west will keep winning and art will go back to winning as well, instead of just being introspective depressing post-modern shit like it has been for a while.

>>70926810
>>70927204
Stuff like this is how you should know this thread is bait, if op didn't do that for you.

>>70921346
this is the Positive Discrimination Generation, all black music is unjustly hyped

>>70926551
>Of course you fucking have, because the only way anyone could dismiss Em in his prime without feeling like a total moron is if they have a deep rooted shame complex that clouds their judgement of any music they liked as a teenager
Why woud anyone be ahamed of that? Surely I am aware now that his music for the most part is shitty and that his lyrics are rather market-compliant and edgy than anything else. I didn't listen to his newer stuff since Relapse because when I listen to Rap nowadays there are other things that interest me about the genre. Since my younger years I have not only refined my taste of music but also my attitude towards it in general. There used to be a time when I identified myself with some of the contents.

But we were all young once so again people who are ashamed of that and don't admit that they once liked some music which is now considered egdy etc. are the ones who still didn't grow up yet.They need to learn to be honest to themselves and to others otherwise they will never learn to overcome the past. It will be stuck with them in form of an underlying inferiority complex.
The failures of the past are nothing to be ashamed of especially such a stupid thing which is not even worth to think about twice. If I was young again at that time I would do nothing differently. Why would it be wrong to enjoy something? I sometimes wish I was able to enjoy something as mindlessly today.

Even now I probably could enjoy listening to some old songs from Em. But it just isn't as good as other music so why bother.

>>70928973
jesus fuck im not even the guy you're replying to but i just have to say that you sound like a professional fedora tipper. If you haven't listened to anything post-Relapse then why are you even bothering forming an opinion at all and saying how much your taste is refined?

>>70921346
There will be no Classic Rap or Hip-Hop radio station ever!

>Hip-Hop/Rap is cancer

>>70924730
This

>>70924792
>>70926551
It is embarrassing to be a fan of a fucking useless wigger. It is a fact that he appeals to white 12 year olds. IMO white people should stay the fuck away from rap cause there always shit at it and aren't usually able to relate to the lyrics

> the Beatles
> Great

Worst post I've read all day, though I'm sure it's bait and you're only pretending to be retarded. Nice work!

>>70930605
Objectivly wrong

>>70926810
I love how you're trying to explain how one is better than the other.

As if metal and punk rock wasn't vulgar too.

Everything you listed is subjective. The Youth are free to listen to what they please, the issue is the people not the music. Get rid of the herd mentality hivemind trash that exists amongst the youth and this problem of
>b-b-but rap is mean!
isn't one.

>>70930749
Theyve had several hits. Stop being such a contrarian

>>70926810
Yeah because ACDC and Glam Rock sure was a showcase of music at it's artistic height. You have a really bad case of selective memory.

>>70930817
Have a "several hits" isn't really sufficient criteria for declaring something great. Face it, the Beatles discography is a mixed bad where every worthwhile album is matched by a heap of garbage fire.