>"It's not good because it's easy to make".

When you're judging art, difficulty of creating it is an important factor in how good it is. If any clown can make it, it's not impressive, exceptional or worthy of serious praise.

I'm sure non-musical ape children will disagree though.

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>when someone with no understanding of the recording/producing process says that they can "make a song just like this one" in 5 minutes

>>70582727
you should be able to enjoy art regardless of effort or talent, but it is definitely a good thing to appreciate anyhow

>>70582727
I don't listen to music to be "impressed."

>>70582807
Well I bet you don't listen to music to be disappointed

>>70582800
I do enjoy simple music at times, but branding very simple music as not good is perfectly valid.

>>70582807
Yeah a lot of people just like to hear simple sounds that make them feel good.

>>70582727
How about judging something on how it makes you feel? Disregarding of the degree of difficulty.

I always feel ashamed by saying my favourite classical pieces are Satie's Gnossiennes and I really shouldn't.

>>70582940
Why is it that when challenged you all argue this, but 90% of the posters on this website are faux elitist snobs in every other context? This is a fine argument, but it's not the argument of someone who has a musical taste to be proud of.

>>70582634
Pop literally has the same formula over and over and you're saying it's good?

>>70583039
>>70583240
Whether or not I like pop is irrelevant. I just think it's stupid to disregard something because the guitar player is shredding less than 15 notes a second.

>>70583329
False dichotomy, try again.

>>70583442
You're using big words. I'm retarded don't forget.

>>70583635
This is the post of a weakling who has been backed into a corner but doesn't have the balls to admit on an anonymous imageboard that he has nothing more of value to say

>>70583792
Eat shit you snivelling elitist! You know nothing of art or beauty, you pay the attention to the minute technical details in an attempt to understand what makes art great, yet you fail to understand that subjective inspiration fuels art! You don't deserve to call yourself a critic!

>>70583950
This logic can be used to defend an Ariana Grande or Lil Yachty song. That's why you shouldn't be taken seriously.

>>70583792
>implying anything of value is being said on 4chan ever
If anything, you'd be the one with the either-or mindset by saying it is valid to brand simple music as not good. I think your standards are too high dude.

>>70583993
That argument is weak as fuck. Don't be mad because you don't know how to enjoy pop music.

>>70584049
I do like pop music, I've already said that in this thread. I don't call it good music though, it's entertainment more than art. Look man, your views are fine, they're just not those of someone who criticizes the music taste of other people. If you don't do that, then good. If you do it, then you are full of shit.

>>70583993
Not an argument.

>>70584179
For a board full of elitist faggots you sure do get upset when your actual knowledge of musical complexity is put in play.

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>>70584141
Jesus man don't fall off that horse you'll hurt yourself.

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>>70582746
asked someone who said that "Okay, sure, what's a compressor do?"

>i uhhh b-bb-b- uhhh well it uhhhh

>>70582727
lel

yeah the people who judged Pollock and Rothko and Kadinsky for making abstract masterpieces really think they're talentless yokels who didn't contribute anything to the artform

fuck off

>>70584292
I know right, crazy that on this music discussion board I'm making the wild assertion that 4 chord or less pop music in 4/4 literally designed to make as much money and be as palatable as possible is more entertainment than art. How dare I claim that Ariana Grande is more of an entertainer than an artist.

>>70584323
Difference is they were doing something entirely innovative, pop music is not innovative, you can literally play the same chords on a loop and sing dozens of different pop songs over them. You'd know that if you were a musician or were educated on this subject. What a joke.

>>70584397
I guess La Monte Young isn't talented since most of his compositions just revolve around droning a few notes and chords for 20+ minutes

John Cage is a hack because he let "chance" in so anyone could play it

Julius Eastman's minimalism is just covering for him being a hack if he were good he'd have written wank fests lke Bach

>art/pop/folk music dichotomy posters will say pop music is bad because it's the same/made to sell
>and they don't apply this criticism to folk music

>>70584435
I don't even listen to folk music.

>>70584434
I'm talking about pop music and music that is easy to make, not minimalist composers. Your inability to tell the difference says a lot on its own.

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>>70584250
Why should technical complexity matter if the subjective experience of listening is satisfactory? For a elitist coward you sure have trouble at making an argument.

>>70584397
This guy.

Who here is talking about art vs entertainment? The thread is about something being good, not asking if "all music is art" you fucking retard.

>>70584499
>>70584501
Look guys, there's nothing wrong with liking only simplistic garbage, just don't pretend that it's good musically. This is very simple.

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>vaporwave is a shit genre

>implying art music has to be good musically
Faggot

is this the ringe thread?

>>70584397
When did "easy to make" become pop music? there is good music that is not complex and also not pop

>>70584499
>Why should technical complexity matter
Apparently because if you can REEE about it on the internet you wouldn't feel so alone anymore.

>>70584476
Minimalist music is easier to make than pop music

Are you actually arguing that it's not?

>"It's not good because it's easy to make".
This is true, but not in the way people sometimes think. It's not a statement that supports music with high instrumental technicality, but one that supports the creative process. Pointless guitar wank like say...Yngwie Malmsteen requires a lot of technical instrumental skill for sure, but very little creative skill. Another example would be a lot of radio pop albums where the teams are huge and the amount of overall work put into an album is enormous yet the amount of creativity at display is minuscule. This counts for all forms of music.

>>70582727
>>70582857
>>70583039
>>70583442
>>70583792
>>70583993
>>70584141
>>70584250
>>70584397
>>70584476
>>70584536

kys

>>70584538
That face isn't smug at all

>>70584612
Yes, making includes composing. The reason why those pieces are remarkable is the use of empty space, originality and creativity. With a pop song, you can literally play am, F, C, G, make up words and you have a pop song.

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>>70584644

>>70584703
If I plug my synth in and hold out a lush chord while twisting a knob, no matter how pretty and nice it is, it's undeniably easier than writing and recording an entire generic pop song.

Stop trying to make yourself a special snowflake non-musician

>>70584748
>thinks minimalism is just a chord arppegiation
Nigga what?

>>70584748
And that's not equivalent to minimalist composers,it's more than 1 chord while twisting a knob. I don't like it personally, but it is more respectable than pop music.

Put it this way, you wouldn't have to exaggerate if you had a real point.

A better thought out criticism would be that the music is derivative, formulaic, or unoriginal. You can most definitely quite simple music that is none of these things and which can be quite good.

>>70584806
I took easy to make as composing as well. Easy to compose implies derivative, formulaic and unoriginal combined with easy to play. Hence why I've been talking about generic pop music this entire time.

>>70584794
>implying it can't be
obviously Steve Reich is not this

but there's not a whole lot more to some of Terry Riley's best known synth works than just analog synth modulation

>>70584798
das cool non-musician

>>70584612
Easy to make isn't just about the music itself you mong it's also about the writing.
If you take albums like spiderland or a lot of slowcore you'll notice they're really easy to play but in terms of the creativity put into the songs they're outstanding, by your definition some buttmetal thats just some greasy slob going up and down the same scale the whole time is "harder to make"
Pop music is easy to make not because it doesnt require talent to produce it but because it takes no creativity or originality at all.
Pop music is made to be samey and non-challenging that's why its the same simple melodies, same simple chord progreszions, same simple lyrics and same simple beats regardless of how many professionals work on it.

>>70584853
I am a musician, I've been playing guitar for 10 years, singing for 8. I get paid for it and have been in multiple bands. This is why I know you're bullshitting.

You wouldn't have to exaggerate and resort to misdirected ad homs if you had a real point. You're 2 for 2 right now on petty teenage girl behavior in lieu of actual points.

>>70584833
I think you're really oversimplifying things and condensing composition down to specifying a chord progression. Were the original noise rock bands doing something complex by unloading feedback over the top of simple rock tunes? Did this make it any less interesting?

>>70584903
you're on 4chan shitposting about music not being worth listening to if it doesn't take "skill" to play, so if i'm petty teenage girl does that make you school shooter?

>>70584853
>but there's not a whole lot more to some of Terry Riley's best known synth works than just analog synth modulation
Did you not make it past the first minute on A Rainbow In Curved Air?

>>70584890
>Pop music is made to be samey and non-challenging that's why its the same simple melodies, same simple chord progreszions, same simple lyrics and same simple beats regardless of how many professionals work on it.
OP here When I started this thread, I was arguing about this not being inherently a bad thing.

Then the other guy who doesn't want to be wrong ever made it about entertainment vs art and it's still going.

Fuck this shit let it 404.

>>70584941
I'm not specifying chord progression, it's just an example. Creative use of effects, novel ideas, novel use of instruments, time signature, song structure, dissonance, innovating genres, difficulty of performance in general, etc. There are tons of factors, and generic pop music tends to be worse at all of them, that's why I'm using it for examples.

>>70584977
>you're on 4chan shitposting about music not being worth listening to if it doesn't take "skill" to play

Literally never said or implied that, you made it up. Feel free to find it and quote me though, I'd enjoy you wasting your time because of your own stupidity.

You wouldn't have to exaggerate, resort to misdirected ad homs or make things up if you had real points. Face it, you are useless.

>>70585016
Don't worry man I was repyling to the other autist for a reasson I'm with you in your original point, I think any music can be good as long as long as it has something interesting about it and this can be preety much anything, some of my favourite albums are really simple in most regards but bring something interesting in some small way wich is completely subjective.
I hate that everyone in here is always so radical in these types of discussions because everyone ends up looking like a fool

>>70585071
>Literally never said or implied that
Literally (what I'm assuming is) your first post.
>If any clown can make it, it's not impressive, exceptional or worthy of serious praise.

>>70585233
That doesn't make it not worth listening to. You are awful at reading comprehension and everything else you've tried to do in this thread.

>>70585151
You're misinterpreting my points. What you're describing is not what I'm criticizing.

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>>70585298
>>70585298
So I can listen to it but if I legitimately like it then I'm a pleb? Stop being so far up your ass bro.

>ywn enjoy pic related in its full glory
I feel sad for you anon.

>>70584579
>When did "easy to make" become pop music?
Do you happen to know that we don't live in the 60's anymore? From a business standpoint, this "easy to make" concept is valid.

>>70584435
Popular music != popular

>>70584733
>>70584538

I hate to break it to you, kid, but you've got autism.

>>70585532
You can like it, but don't say it's better than a song that was crafted more intricately.

>>70587389
Let this thread die.

>>70587412
I'm not the guy you were responding to.

>>70582940
>I always feel ashamed by saying my favourite classical pieces are Satie's Gnossiennes and I really shouldn't.
Yes, you should

>>70587576
Stop bumping this thread.

>>70584640
this

>>70582634
These people are idiots because they think music can be good or bad. It can't. It can be enjoyable or boring. It can be complex or simple. It can be groundbreaking or classic.

It can't be "good" or "bad"

>>70582634
Ironically many of the people who say this listen to AC/DC and The Rolling Stones.

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>>70584323

First of all it must've taken a lot of work to make a pollock / Kandinsky painting so I don't understand your logic already

Second of all every known artist, even if their famous art seems like it doesn't require much talent nor effort, is a very skilled painter who mastered the basics of painting before entering a 'new territory'
+ they represent an idea which they created and mastered (Rothko, Mondrian, Yves Klein etc)

And that is the whole beauty of modern art imo, where the idea is in the centre

Since music is much more 'accessible' in a way where you don't need to have much knowledge about music to enjoy music, it is easier for artists like Yachty to be successfull without mastering rap

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>tfw I wake up and this hasn't 404'd yet
>tfw I'm saging my own thread