Is post-hardcore just glorified 'acceptable' screamo ?

screamo is already acceptable

the new youth funeral was great btw

screamo is an extension of emo (emotional hardcore)

so while there may definitely be overlaps in styles and influences, you're dangerously approaching "apples and orange" territory in comparing the two.

>>69698916
wrong, emo stands for emotive hardcore which came from the east coast primarily out of D.C. and eventually getting a chimer, jangler sound in the midwest during the 90's and infusing some power pop chord hooks and pop punk aesthetics. Screamo was during the late 80's, I believe.

>>69698946
>emo stands for emotive hardcore which came from the east coast primarily out of D.C
emotive, emotional whatever. only borderline autists argue about the semantics.

your whole post doesn't disprove what I said, in that screamo is a subgenre of emo and was never strictly from the late 80s. besides midwest emo doesn't encapsulate the genre.

emo, screamo, etc. are just buzzwords. Everyone actually playing at the time were just calling it hardcore.

>>69699023
this is v. true

You figured it out.

post-hardcore is screamo acceptable for pretentious snobs.
hardcore punk is screamo for dads
MC5 and The Stooges are screamo for grandpas.

>>69699023
sure, but post-hardcore is what unwound and big black were, and there wasn't anything particularly screamo or emo about them though both genres had the same roots, which is what OP is trying to ask.

>>69699044
>MC5 and The Stooges are screamo for grandpas.
their best work were no doubt better than your precious fav screamo album/band

>>69699078
He was joking, anon....

>>69699186
i'm too serious on the internet for poe's law to get the better of rme

>>69698832
It's like alt-rock
It's an attempt to make a more accessible form of screamo.
And it's gaining ground like alt-rock.. might actually break the charts soon.

>>69699044
>hardcore punk is screamo for dads
>my dad is a boomer
>not even mid twenties
wew

Post-Hardcore is a broad label for the bands that came after the first wave of hardcore, who wanted to use hardcore as a base, but develop from that, adding tension/dynamism, introspection, minor chord progressions, pop song structure, more complex playing, emotive expression, etc.

Some of the post-hardcore bands, like Rites of Spring and Dag Nasty, were emocore. Others, like Big Black and Scratch Acid, were not. At the time emocore stood for "emotional hardcore". Now people say it stands for "emotive hardcore" to be more accurate, since the singers are emoting in the songs.

That first wave of emocore bands inspired two different scenes. Bands like Cap'n Jazz and Sunny Day Real Estate combined the DC emocore sound with a jangly indie sound to create "midwest emo", "indie emo", or "twinkly emo", which led to everything from scene kid emo-pop to pizzacore.
The other scene it led to was a more intense second wave of emocore, like Moss Icon and Heroin. Those bands did more screaming and used more noise. Those bands further inspired bands that were all about screaming, like Saetia, Portraits of Past, and Orchid.

At the same time all that was going on, there were tons of other post-hardcore scenes developing, including math rock and noise rock, which have almost nothing to do with emocore/emo/screamo.

Screamo is a genre that exists within the broader genre of post-hardcore. But there are many post-hardcore bands that are not screamo, or even emo in any capacity.

If you correct people that "it's not emotional, it's emotive", you're literally autistic.

>>69699349
A couple examples of modern post-hardcore that are not screamo/emo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSJ6xdhClVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiPV7T56iyU

>>69699349
>pizzacore
I always chortle when I see or read stuff like that

>>69699349
When you talk about noise and screaming, it bothers me that you boil it down a little too much. Can you discuss things like rhythmic progressions or guitar sounds? Or at least influences. When I hear SDRE, I can hear King Crimson. When I hear Heroin, I can hear Ministry. When I hear Portraits of Past, I can hear The Cure. When I hear Moss Icon, I can hear The Grateful Dead, etc.

>>69699349
>Some of the post-hardcore bands, like Rites of Spring and Dag Nasty, were emocore

Were they though? They really hated that term.

"Emocore is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard" - Ian Mackaye in 1986 from the DC hardcore doc.

>>69699708
The vast majority of artists hate the labels their music is branded with.

And while Guy is right--emo is a really stupid term--what matters in classification is a general consensus and usage going forward.

He lost. The conversation is over.

>>69699515
I think it's a fine description for a genre that hasn't really been given a proper name yet. There's this genre going on right now that's equal parts pop punk, midwest emo, indie pop, and even a little Youth Crew. It's clearly unique from other midwest emo and pop punk, but the people that derided it as "pizzacore" are ironically the only ones I've seen who've tried to recognize it with a name. I actually like the name.

>>69699678
I'm talking about trends, broad overviews of trends. Of course SDRE has a prog element. Of course screamo bands have all sorts of influences. But broadly speaking, one is more melodic and softer, and its better alongside "indie" bands. The other is rougher, more furious, and has more screaming, and would fit alongside hardcore bands better.

It's a pretty wild expectation that any band will be purely their genre. The Ramones are supposed to be punk in its pure form, according to a lot of people. But in the Ramones there are elements of bubblegum pop, surf rock, and garage rock. Fugazi's considered the key post-hardcore band by a lot of people, but they take influences from everything from reggae to free jazz. That doesn't make them any less post-hardcore.

>>69699768
This. Everybody genre creator hates their label. Tony Iommi doesn't consider Sabbath heavy metal, but rather "doom rock". Suede hated the term Britpop. Bauhaus reject the term "goth". Bad Brains were weirded out when kids started calling them "hardcore". Most of the Seattle bands hated the term "grunge". The Ramones blamed the "punk" label for keeping them off pop radio.

>>69699678
ive never listend to grateful dead but i would never thought moss icon could be compared to them. could u tell me a dead song that sounds like moss icon please

>>69699871
to add on to that, Guy Picciotto never liked the term "emo" and thought everything he did as well as other bands like Bad Brains were "emotional" punk music.

>>69698832
nice bait

>>69699349
actual good post

there's also modern post-hardcore which op is probably thinking of. I don't know what to call it, bands that took the almost metallic sound of bands like quicksand, glassjaw and refused (bands I don't mind) but with a really shitty overproduced scene tinge to it

>>69699708
pretty sure guy said that not ian. in context his point was that music is supposed to be emotional anyway, not that it's an inaccurate term to describe the music

>>69699023
kind of true. they're useful terms in hindsight especially as there are distinctive sounds. but bands as diverse as fugazi, converge and melvins all consider themselves to be playing the same genre (punk or hardcore)

I think the problem with all of these things is that a sound develops organically, and then a new wave of bands just regurgitates that sound in a forced attempt to fit into the genre, even though the original bands weren't purists at all and were pretty open-minded when it comes to influence (ian said he wanted fugazi to sound like reggae as played by the stooges)

>>69699249
screamo came after post-hardcore