/classical/

Imagine being so frustrated at being short and being cucked by your wife leaving you that you destroy western art music. Incredible

Anyone /Leo Ornstein/ here?

>>69589512
his piano quintet is great

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>>69589511
>destroy

>>69589579
art music was cucked until the regenerative jew powers of Reich were directed towards healing the damage done by the manlet angry jew

>>69589599
Reich is terrible

>>69589621
sorry for your bad taste

>>69589636
Please don't project

>>69589511
>thinking the "reluctant revolutionary" wanted to destroy art music
Schoenberg didn't have a choice, he wanted to continue to write in the late romantic style, but times they were a changing. Not changing with them would be for the dumb and meek.

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>>69589621
>Reich is terrible

>>69589480
Soler for soler

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>one chance at life
>isn't born to parents that beat you if you don't become a great composer at the age of 5

Why live?

>>69590553
anyone can become a great composer, at any age. Rautavaara didn't become great until he was in his 70s.

Just a matter of learning music theory and writing a whole shit ton of music. It takes 10 years to become good. 20 years to become "great".

>>69590586
>Rautavaara isn't great
ftfy

This girl just texted me and asked me what Chopin "song" she should try listening to.

"song"

The minute I saw those words I almost threw my phone at the wall. What should I say in response? I dont' know how to express my disgust.

>>69590812
nocturne Op. 9, No. 1 in B flat

>>69590812
Don't get mad at her and rec some entry-level stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OFHXmiZP38

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thoughts on webern? suck my fucking cock

>>69590887
>suck my fucking cock
what did he mean by this

>>69589410
Fuck manlets

I have to thank whoever posted Schoenberg's 4th string quartet on here like a month ago. Hearing it I feel like I "got" --or at least enjoyed--serialism for the first time. It's just an endlessly fascinating parade of rhythmic and textural ideas that shine extra brightly sans tonality.

>>69591067
The 4th quartet is actually catchy. I find myself whistling some of it once in awhile

this is the worst general on /mu/

>>69591323
you're the penisest penis on penis

>>69591323
what makes you say that?

>>69589410
sides

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Here is my new favorite composer guys. Go easy on him though, he's new here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL5RRYylvD0

>>69590812
tell her she's a retard

>>69590881
pussy

>>69591667
The fact that it's actually about good music unlike every other thread on /mu/.

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Does a more cancerous performer pairing exist? I think not

What's the deal with Simon Rattle anyhow? I never see him recommended for anything, not just here but anywhere. And why is the BPO considered prestigious if they never record anything worthwhile?

>>69592964
BBC radio 3

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>>69589410
>very accomplished performer with enough practice and if it makes you happy

What the OP means by this is you will barely be playing Classical music and will have to resign yourself to transcribing shitty anime openings and making videos of yourself playing them.

That is if you actually want to make money. See Youtube if you don't believe me.

>>69592964
>And why is the BPO considered prestigious if they never record anything worthwhile?
Good players. And it's widely used by a variety of conductors.

Also they have a golden-era reputation spanning back to the Furtwangler days and into the Karajan days.

Rattle did his best to make the BPO as boring as possible, though.

>>69593001
I suppose Karajan cranking out so many albums did do wonders for their brand recognition. It makes me curious if they might be overhyped since Furtwangler has been gone so long.

>>69593171
The State Orchestra in Dresden is much better

>>69592897
its too bad they weren't performing Rach and Tchaik

Who's your favorite for the Rach 2nd piano concerto?

>>69590812
Scoff at her and call her a Pleb.

>>69592998
Anime is the future.

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>>69590812
Oh boi, I remember when a fellow female student of mine asked me to compile a list of recommended piano pieces for her.
So I spent a couple hours on figuring out what would be best for someone who has never listened to anything and might have an attention span of someone with inattentive adhd.
After I sent her the list (began with the more accessible pieces and already included links for all the decent recordings) I've waited for about 2 months until I asked her about her opinion. She stated she had no time to listen to anything but she'll find time ! Of course.

Weeks after that she send me a link saying that this is her favorite piece :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXO2O9KVMUw

>>69592998
>subscribed

>>69595696
lol damn good catch

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>>69592897
>destroying two of my favourite concerti

>>69595272
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Oh god, thanks for that laugh, I mean it. But you saw that coming though, right? You KNEW that's what was going to happen.

Can John Williams still be considered the greatest living composer if he gives his scores to orchestrators to complete?

>>69590812
Fugue in A minor

>>69596132
>Can John Williams...be considered the greatest living composer...?
This question has a mistaken premise.

>>69595272
>622,956 views
wtf, I've never heard of this nigga.

>>69596162
He's probably mainly known for doing the music to this movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggy_Poo

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>>69589410
>shortsupport.org

>>69596176
That's an intriguing name. After lurking the /mu/ catalog sometimes I forget Korea has culture outside of kpop.
>River Flows In You - Orchestral 60 Minutes Version (With Relaxing Nature Sounds)
>3,298,047 views
This makes me feel bad for him.

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>>69596176
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggy_Poo
kek

Do yall have any favourite Japanese serialism?

>Schoenberg was a manlet
wtf I hate serialism now

>>69590687
>Rautavaara wasn't great
ftfy he dead nigga

>>69590812
>>69595272
beta orbiter autism. screencapping these posts for kpg to laugh at

>>69596448
good job making the worst post in this thread

>>69596132
He's a pretty good film composer. But he is by no means the best living composer.

Film music doesn't allow much creative freedom, you're working to accentuate a story line and underpin emotions, and often large chunks of the music you wrote is left on the cutting room floor.

Actual composers have complete control over what their music sounds like and its premise or "story" if any.

Any choral enthusiasts here? I got into Welsh choral tradition a while ago and I can't stop listening to this shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNgC16vdkBA

hey /classical/
what do you guys think of stuff like Steve Reich ?
Is it ok to share stuff like this here ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doJk4yPwJDk

>>69590887
damn i love this website

>>69597167
degenerate cuck

>>69597247
What about this then ? a bit less congoid
gotta admit John Cage is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wtmQkvX7A

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>medieval
plain
>renaissance
>>>instruments
>>>intelligibility
>>>monody
>baroque
great
>Classiccal
great
>romantic
firetrucks
>20th century
death of classical, cucked by popular/electric (not electronic specifically) music

>>69597353
wtf i love firetruckcore

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>>69597447

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>>69597247
But Reich is regenerative:
>Now when I was a student and went to music school let’s say between 1957 and 1963, everybody had to write like Stockhausen or Boulez or John Cage, or you were laughed at. No rhythm, no harmony, no melody, and if you were a fool enough to use any of those things, people laughed at you, either in front of your face or behind your back. And you think I’m exaggerating, think of the Titan of the Age, Igor Stravinsky, himself, and he felt obliged to use the twelve-tone techniques. Now being a genius, he used it is own way and he created “Canticum Sacrum,” “Agon,” and other masterpieces because he could bend and move it to his will to do that.
>So when I went to school, I was up against the wall: ‘Do this or die’. That’s the way it was. And that also meant that the window between the concert hall and the street had been slammed shut by Schoenberg and his compatriots. Now Arnold Schoenberg’s a great composer, but he had some serious misunderstandings. He thought harmony could be taken out of music, and pulsing rhythm can be taken out of music and music could go on just fine. And he said “oh, in 50 years the postman will whistle my tune”. Well it’s 100 years and no postman on earth will ever whistle Arnold Schoenberg’s anything. He’s still a great composer, but he’s a great composer who lives in a dark corner, and it’s fine to go to that dark corner and listen to his music. Every once in a while, people will continue to do that because he really is a great composer. But he’s not what he thought he was, he’s not some kind of new Tchaikovsky. He’s more a mannerist in a dying romanticism. German romanticism was dying and he was the beginning of its death. It’s still rattling around in its grave over in parts of Europe but it’s dead and gone.
However classical's "regeneration" amounts to what late medieval composers achieved 1000 years ago, electric music has relegated classical to a niche medium.

DVORAK A BEST

>>69597447
I'm a huge fan of Gesualdo

>>69597504
Schoenberg never said anyone would whistle his music
>"My music is not lovely"
He also never claimed himself as revolutionary. 12-tone was his private language, and he was upset that so many people were picking it up.
>"I was never revolutionary. The only revolutionary in our time was Strauss!"

Reich needs to do some research.

Also if Reich is a return to what medieval composers achieved, then Schoenberg was a return to what the Renaissance achieved.

http://thinkclassical.blogspot.com/2012/08/introduction-to-schoenberg-ix-defender.html

All I've heard from Reich is his music for 18 musicians and that was boring as shit

What's a good composition from him

>>69597504
RIP Reich 2017

>>69597353
None of those guys even have anything in common.

>>69597612
And that’s perfectly normal, movements come and go, and mannerists go way back to Gesualdo who’s a wonderful composer, but he’s not listened to too often because he’s at the end of overly complex counterpoint where it gets too difficult and people really say “Hey man, let’s just have a melody and some chords” and voila, there’s opera, there’s Monteverdi.

>>69597620
In 1921 Arnold Schoenberg declares that because of him German music will continue to dominate the world for the next hundred years. Twelve years later he is forced to leave Germany forever. After the war, in America, laden with honors, he is still convinced that his work will be celebrated forever. He faults Igor Stravisnky for paying too much attention to his contemporaries and disregarding the judgement of the future. He expects posterity to be his most reliable ally. In a scathing letter to Thomas Mann he looks to the period “after two or three hundred years,” when it will finally become clear which of the two was the greater, Mann or he! Schoenberg dies in 1951. For the next two decades his work is hailed as the greatest of the century, venerated by the most brilliant of the young composers, who declare themselves his disciples; but thereafter it recedes from both concert halls and memory. Who plays it nowadays, at the turn of this century? Who looks to him?

>>69596453
Good job making the second worst post in this thread.

>>69597167
Yeah, I like him and he is considered part of the art music tradition.

>>69597798
I'm pretty sure both Mann and Schoenberg are considered among the best of the 20th century in their respective art forms.

>>69597829
Good job making the 1.5th worst post in this thread.

>>69597798
Not him but Schoenberg is still commonly performed, along with Webern and Berg. I see their works programmed all the time when looking at performance schedules. All of the SVS is still commonly recorded as well.

>>69597720
Proverb

>>69597798
>from memory
lel no

every music class I've taken has gone in-depth to at least one of his works.

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>>69597798
Are you seriously implying no one knows about or performs Schoenberg's works??!

>>69597880
Come on, Proverb is just a blowjob of Perotin with the add of some boring xylophones and bad Howard Shore vocals lol

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>>69597847
>their respective art forms
literature is considered more erudite, just compare Goethe and Beethoven in their reactions to nobility.
>best of the 20th century
True or not, irrelevant.

>>69597866
>>69597889
>>69597905
No.

>>69598007
what's your point, you retard? even if Schoenberg isn't a top 10 in performance everyone still learns plenty about him in Academia. he will never fall from memory so long as that remains the case.

>>69598007
Your picture doesn't disprove anything that I said.

Is there a conductor known for doing classical period music with tons and tons of rubato? No HIP instruments either. Maybe that would make it more interesting.

>>69598078
Rene Jacobs, I think

>>69598024
This is what my father told me when I was five: a key signature is a king's court in miniature. It is ruled by a king (the first step) and his two right-hand men (steps five and four). They have four other dignitaries at their command, each of whom has his own special relation to the king and his right-hand men.

Since each of the twelve notes has its own job, title, and function, any piece we hear is more than mere sound: it unfolds a certain action before us. Sometimes the events are terribly involved: princes from other courts intervene, and before long there is no telling which court a tone belongs to and no assurance it isn't working undercover as a double or triple agent. But even then the most naive of listeners can figure out more or less what is going on. The most complex music is still a language.

One day a great man fulfilled that judgement of the French Revolution: after a thousand years the language of music had worn itself out and could do no more than rehash the same message. Abolishing the hierarchy of tones by modernist decree, he made them all equal and subjected them to a strict discipline: none was allowed to occur more often than any other in a piece, and therefore none could lay claim to its former feudal privileges. All courts were permanently abolished, and in their place arose a single empire, founded on equality and called the twelve-tone system.

Perhaps the sonorities were more interesting than they had been, but audiences accustomed to following the courtly intrigues of the keys for a millennium failed to make anything of them. In any case, the empire of the twelve-tone system soon disappeared. After Schönberg came Varèse, and he abolished notes (the tones of the human voice and musical instruments) along with keys, replacing them with an extremely subtle play of sounds which, though fascinating, marks the beginning of the history of something other than classical music, something based on other principles and language.

>>69598318
a nice infodump, but that has nothing to do with either of my responses

>>69598358
>but that has nothing to do with either of my responses
"what's your point"

>>69598386
i responded saying that he would never fall from memory because he's still commonly taught, and in-depth at that

you responded to my post saying, "No" and then using an image that showed commoniu perforned composers. my asking what your point was was in response to that, because your reply and your image did nothing to refute my original post.

>>69598434
>he would never fall from memory
No one claimed this. That image at least shows a more important topic than what you decided to dispute (with yourself?)

>>69598480
>No one claimed this.

you or someone else certainly implied it in
>>69597798

>>69598480
Not really, since it's blatantly obvious that accesible composers would be performed more often than composers which do not fit that criteria. Doubly so in these days, where performers are hurting for money, as concert attendance is at an all-time low. I remember reading somewhere that orchestras get their biggest payoffs these days from playing movie compositions from Adams and such.

It's the same reason why Mozart and Beethoven sets are packaged and repacked over and over again ad naseum. They sell and will continue to sell, because they're accessible.

>>69590553

>one chance at life
>isn't born to parents that beat you if you don't become both a great composer and pianist at the age of 3
>20 years later
>you literally only care about classical music

Why live? Damn I wish I was asian, I would have studied the intrument and composition with true passion and dedication.

>>69598505
So you take what was an explicit discussion of Schoernberg's claim that through him German music will remain dominant through the centuries, a claim that has been as thoroughly refuted by USA music as communist politics has been by USA politics (and by refuted, let's at least agree in terms of brute force and power, if not "intellectually-morally"), and invert it into the contention that Schoenberg has fallen from memory? And before you jump on that lone sentence of "who plays him today?" that be anything from a judgement of the people who play him to an exaggeration of the fact he fell short of his estimation, certainly nothing for you to twist to a convenient strawman that says he is not played at all.

>>69598583
The accessibility of his music was touched upon here >>69598318

>>69598583

>because they're accessible.

Mozart is not that accessible to people who don't really know anything about him. The tunes will be catchy enough, but understanding how truly great they are is not that easy.

Beethoven on the other hand is the ultimate meme composer. Everyone will appreciate the Appassionata from the first listening, and studying him for your entire life will only make you appreciate it more.

I'm pretty sure that the unpopularity of classical music in modern times is mostly due to music written in major keys, with a pastoral mood (wich is something that is not present anymore in our society).
The 2nd movement of the Moonlight Sonata is very easy to listen to, but most amateurs won't really care about it, since the 1st and 3rd movement sound so modern.

Quick, post a sonata that's objectively better than Liszt's.

You can't.

>>69598745
Mozart is by far the most frequently performed, recorded, and known composer. Whether or not they understand all the nuances of his music is irrelevant. He's accessible.

>>69598799

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUCsk7KToMM&t

So if Shoahberg killed western art music, now what do we do?

>>69598826
Meme sonata.

>>69598837

You have to write tonal music that is extremely beautiful, original and insightful, and you have to do that with consistency for 20 to 40 years. Meanwhile you also have to be extremely political, and get all the best gigs in the most renowned theaters. You should also be heavily involved with the avantgard, since those young artists will one day become critics and professors.

Basically you have to be a ubermensch for your whole life if you want to save classical music, and if no one catchs on your extreme effort your goal will die with you.

Have fun.

>>69598887

>Hammerklavier sonata
>meme sonata

stop being so ignorant

>>69598892
what tuning should we use?

>>69598826
>Brendel
barf

>>69598912
>b-but it's hard to play!
Meme.

>>69598916

12 tone temperament, I don't see why we should move from there.

>>69598940

It's an extremely complex, long, demanding sonata that was not written to please the public.

It's a piece of art. It's like saying that Michelangelo's David is a meme.

>>69598985
>It's like saying that Michelangelo's David is a meme.
But it is, Memelangelo was a meme artist.

ok /classical/, we have to write a tonal work to save classical music, what instrument should we used? what do we start with?

>>69599021
use*

>>69599021
the accordion

>>69599021
organ

>>69598686
>thereafter it recedes from both concert halls and memory
i was talking about this line actually, where it seemed to me that you were implying a significant recession in memory regarding him. a recession which i never saw, since all throughout college i saw him talked about on a regular basis.

>certainly nothing for you to twist to a convenient strawman that says he is not played at all.
i was never really concerned with how often he was performed, which is why your response to me in >>69598007 was bizarre to me

>>69598745
Schoenberg made that claim just as he was starting 12-tone compositions, and he would later revise that viewpoint throughout the rest of his life, hence why he moved further towards a more private viewpoint in the 30s and 40s, claiming his music as not for all, as not revolutionary, and as completely unmarketable. Indeed, Schoenberg's viewpoint of his music shifted dramatically in those two decades, moving quite a bit closer to what Reich considered him as... as sory've "private" composer. He played with typical tonality in the 30s and 40s, and frequently broke his own rules even within the context of his 12-tone system. And he even ardently defended Stravinsky against Adorno's critical onslaught.

I don't think it's fair to break apart that early quote that he made when he just began exploring 12-tone music. What you have there is a considerably younger man, excited at a discovery, and eager to share it with the world. It is by no means representative of his thoughts and feelings for the rest of his life though, human beings frequently change and revise themselves.

Still though, he wasn't entirely wrong. Every music aficionado worth their salt are familiar with Schoenberg and his disciplez and they did, regardless of what you think of their music, end up having a considerable influence on the 20th century. They are still frequently performed and recorded. Their legacy is secure.

>>69599021
five soloists, narrator, chorus, and a large orchestra

call it Meme-Lieder

>>69599021

Loud piano sonatas.
Wind quartet/quintets.
Symphonic songs.

These are my pics.

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>>69598007
>Goethe is automatically better than Mozart because he responded better to nobility

>>69599357

Who cares about nobility? Virtually every great pianist and composer that came after him had the most pure respect for Mozart. Only trolls on /classical/ shit on him. It's just a meme.

>>69597167
yeah reich is great - very accessible
I played this piece by him last semester - his music is a bitch to learn/play well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53Ocb2-uMk

>tfw you finally realize that Gould was an idiot

http://www.konbini.com/us/entertainment/mozart-officially-sold-the-most-cds-in-2016-beats-drake/
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>69599472
Soon you'll realize that anyone who underrates Mozart is an idiot

>>69600050
Is Mozart, dare I say, a meme?

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>>69600050
Could Mozart still be alive?

>>69600050
Who are the performers in that box set anyways?
They better have the Karajan/Brain recording of the horn concerti

>>69600122
I finished reading that the other day.

I cringed when they called his Requiem a "song."

>>69600133

It's the Turkish March and then 13 techno remixes of Turkish March.

>>69600152
>not vocaloid and 8-bit remixes
Plebs

>tfw Puccini's operas are 100% better than any Mozart's and Wagner's operas

I've seen all of his operas live in the last 2 months and Jesus Christ, how can one soul be so beautiful? Fuck German music.

>>69598892
>>69598837
>>69599021
Schoenberg didn't kill it, keep up. He was simply the Dr. Frankenstein who revived it a little.

>now what do we do?
Well, you could start by accepting its death. And to stop dogmatically insisting on tonality, 12-tone, etc. The end of early music was a kind of death, in the transition to common practise. Now you have to accept the death of the latter.

On a less specific level, you also have to accept the dominance of popular music, which isn't just a mix of folk and classical music, it is also more in tune with modern life in all aspects. It's not even disputable since I am defining in tune as synonymous with the popular appeal it has.

>>69600152
By famous youtube anime performers.

>>69600176
Mozart wasn't German

>>69600176
>Mozart
>German

>>69600196
>>69600201
That anon probably read about the fascination he had with shit and farts and jumped to conclusions.

>>69590812
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6WjC-HIjbQ

>>69600178

>Now you have to accept the death of the latter.

Common Practice music is not synonim of tonality, actually it's a very specific way to approach this system.
I don't see why would you consider tonality dead when there are still so many possible aesthetic choices and styles waiting there for you, especially considering that the classical music aesthetic doesn't really resonate with most people of our time.

>you also have to accept the dominance of popular music

Certain tavern songs were way more famous to the public than any Beethoven's symphony. Should he have cared for that?
Most commercial music is ugly, cheap and not musically deliberate. Why would you prey on that? Do I really have to build the new academic classical music on repetitive 4 chords songs that don't make any use of the tonal system?

Here's my opinion: if you'll ever try to get a friend into classical music you will quickly notice that certain ideas are more entertaining than others to the modern public. A Haydin string quartet is technically pleasant, but it will be way less entertaining than a Grosse Fuge (wich ended up sounding shockingly modern and raw).

I think that we should discard those great ideas that don't work anymore on the public, and only retain and develop the great musical ideas that are still somewhat palatable.
To most amateurs the Appassionata will be more interesting than any Mozart sonata, and it is still deep enough to be appreciated by experts too. I feel the same way for classic jazz idioms, they just don't work anymore and don't really describe our time.

The goal should be music that doesn't relate to the common practice and romantic periods but still sounds extremely moving, beautiful, original, sophisticated and elegant. Structure should be the key.

>>69600148
I hear you, shit's a banger.

>>69597353
>no roccocco period

fuck you

>>69598318
Your father has autism. I understand if you need some time alone to process this.

>>69600556
it's a bop

>>69598745
so you are saying that, conversely, as people study Mozart they are going to come to appreciate him less and less because they'll recognize his alberti bass and other attendant tricks of his composition? I agree desu senpai

>>69600902

Mozart used extensively certain techniques and idioms, but his music is so much more than that.

>so you are saying that, conversely, as people study Mozart they are going to come to appreciate him less and less

I'm saying the opposite. The more you study Mozart and the more you understand that he was an actual genius, on the scale of Gauss and Newton.

Is it generally agreed upon that Anglo-Saxon composers are less talented than Jewish ones?

>>69600671
rococo is just late baroque/early classical.

JC Bach etc.

>>69599451
>I played an animoosic, it was sooo fun

thanks retard

>>69600133
>wanting Karajan

Y tho?

>tfw you never went to Liszt boot camp and practiced with him 10 hours everyday
>tfw Haydyn never picked you as his favourite student
>tfw your dad's brother, Ludvig Van Beethoven, never gave you piano and composition lessons from the age of 3

Why even try?

>>69601061
I like to think that I'm so talentless it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

>>69601114

Beethoven's nephew was talentless and he never amounted to anything.

>tfw reading LVB's conversation books
>tfw he costantly complains about his piece of shit nephew not taking any piano lesson while in the army
>tfw I'm as mad as him

He was the fucking worst. I'm glad he died in misery.

>>69601181
>Be forced to live with this old fuck that forces you to play piano even if you don't have any musical talent, to the point you buy a gun to kill yourself
Yeah fuck that guy

>>69601211

He tried to kill himself because Beethoven was spying on him (he had lots of informers everywhere). It may seem fucked up but in those years Vienna was riddled with syphilis and there was no cure.
Schubert died when he was 28 cause of it, so it was a reasonable concern.

>>69597353
Where's Berlioz?

>>69601275
He didn't make the list because Tallis is a Berlioz fanboy and he was too much of a pussy to include him

>>69601300
But he was literally the progenitor of high romanticism. You can argue that he's solely responsible for the "firetruck" aesthetic.

>>69601324
You're correct. But Tallis didn't include him because of his blatant bias. I used to give him shit about it back in the day and he constantly dodged it.

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>>69597353
>classical
>literally the antithesis of the complex and technical baroque
>both great
Idiot confirmed.

>>69601537
>technical
>a good thing

>>69601555
>greentext
>memearrows

daily reminder that there are actually people who rate Bach and Beethoven over Mozart

is there a good book with audio for classical ear training?

>>69601566
Further proof

>>69601566
Yeah, there are people with taste in the world.

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>He doesn’t sing, he doesn’t dance and he’s not on YouTube. He also died over two centuries ago, but none of that has stopped Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart from scoring the best-selling CD of 2016 with a disc released just five weeks ago.

>With a total of 1.25 million copies sold since the end of October, as Billboard reports, Mozart has beaten Drake’s Views, Kanye West’s The Life of Pablo and Beyoncé’s Lemonade. And all of that without doing a single promo tour.

>>69601699
so there is hope

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>>69601699
>Mozart is not on youtube

>>69601275
>>69601300
>>69601324
>>69601337
His music gets loud, but it is not constant loudness caused by the exageration of the dramatization of musical discourse through constant rape of Classical forms, but rather loudness excused by the raw and honest expression of something else than the capacity to write for large ensembles. Most of the musical passages you would consider "firetruck-core" in Berlioz are very brief and written in a complex, non-Beethovenian orchestration, followed by passages showing extreme contrast with the previous ones: it was all a momentary outlash, while firetruck-core composers are constantly using this kind of musical tropes, or at least, without originality. When Berlioz decides he's playing an ascending major scale with all strings at the unison, he's not doing it like Brahms being a third pressing of Beethoven, but he's doing it because he has to, to bring us something else, more refined, which will sound even more refined when put aside the brutality of such tropes which mostly compose the totality of Tchaikovsky's or Brahms' music.

post more like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umEDct4BoGc

>>69601847
Yes, I remember this pasta from 4 years ago as well.

It basically amounts to, "If it's the kind of loudness I like, then it's ok." I wouldn't really call it "brief" though. The majority, around roughly 55-60% of Symphonie Fantastique is quite loud. The Scaffold March is a non-stop romp, the Witches Dream is almost a non-stop romp, and both are quite a bit louder in concert than most of the Firetruck-core that I've heard (don't use recordings as a reference, btw. that's pointless.) Of course, that also depends on the conductor and so on, but keep in mind that Berlioz had a fierce reputation as a very loud and over-the-top conductor. It's what his audiences loved about it. It's inescapable to coin him as a firetruck composer, he embodies the very term on every level.

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>>69601847
>berlioz
>refined

>>69602039
Yes even in his personal life he was basically a moody edgy histrionic drama queen. He was basically Elliot Rodger in his personal writings

>>69590812
Attack her with an autistic fit of rage

>>69595272

funniest post I've seen in a while

Can someone actually explain specifically what makes meme conductors like Bernstein or Karajan so bad other than they are popular?

>>69602722
A tendency to fetishize a particular kind of "beautiful" sound, full, compact and dominated by main melodic voices, with soft attack and broad strokes. Homogeneity takes precedence over the articulation of the particular and over contrasts. Emphasis on a metronomic beat, Karajan regards notation as essentially complete in that regard. Active involvement in the recording and mixing of his recordings, which exacerbates some of those tendencies further and produced some staggeringly unnatural-sounding records, particularly in the 70s.

Now, while this approach can produce great results in some repertoire (mostly 20th century music, like Strauss, Debussy, Schoenberg, Honegger), I feel that it runs contrary to the demands of much earlier music, especially the Austro-German classics: Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner.

All in all, Karajan was an immensely skilled conductor and orchestral trainer (which is evidenced by how similar his output with different orchestras is, at least if they're temporally close), but he developed a trademark sound which - being his trademark - he applied to everything.

He's certainly one of the great and most influential conductors of the 20th century, but his fame tends to overshadow some currents of interpretation I consider more interesting and appropriate.

>>69602722

They were very attractive white men who became famous in the '30s. Karajan was the perfect german man, Bernstein was the perfect NY socialyte.

They were also great conductors, that's why we still remember them, but they're glory is mostly PR

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Beethoven vs Mozart

>Mozart
Clean, thoughtful flow of ideas. Thematically consistent, with satisfying delivery.

>Beethoven
Music is in a constant struggle. Challenging to listen to, yet also difficult to stop. Ideas are emphasized heavily and emphasis continues to increase as you go through. Shocking and emphatic.

Mozart boasts a masterful form. Beethoven, where he lacks in form, he makes up for it in spirit.
Because of this, I believe Beethoven will always be better than Mozart.
It is as if Mozart is telling you "Take a load of and relax, enjoy your stay" while Beethoven is telling "Whatever feeling you have at that very moment, you better struggle through it and experience it to its full extent"

>>69602750
I fail to see what Debussy, Strauss or Schoenberg have in common with one another. Strauss seems much closer to Bruckner than Debussy

>>69601699
>>69601741
There have only been like 5000 actual sales. It's a 200 disc set and each disc counts as an individual sale.

>>69602839
Ebic :^)

>>69602848
>I fail to see what Debussy, Strauss or Schoenberg have in common with one another.
They're 20th century music

>>69602860
but Debussy is very sacharrine thinly orchestrated music while Strauss continues in the tradition of high romanticism and Schoenberg is something entirely different.

>>69602858
To be fair, how likely would it be for people to buy a 200 disc set of [contemporary artist]?

Kondrashin > Mravinsky > Rozhdestvensky > Svetlanov

Who has 225? Upload that shit

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>>69602839

>*cough*

>>69597798
If there was one thing Schoenberg was right about, it was Stravinsky being complete dogshit, especially during the 1920's-1950's

>>69603154
Tru

>>69602928
>Debussy
>sacharrine

He only approaches Sacharrine in his early works like Reverie, Ballade, and Suite bergamasque, and in some degree his light works like Bruyeres and La fille de cheveux de lin

There is nothing Sacharrine about La mer, Jeux, or Images pour orchestre

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>>69601566

>>69602928
>Schoenberg
>no high romanticism

>>69603154
Svet is more interesting than Rozzy in my opinion

And Mravinsky gets extra bonus points for actually using the best orchestral seating

>>69604113
My point is that Bruckner is a lot closer to Strauss than is Debussy. Or moreover that there is no "20th century" sound because music became increasingly less monolithic at the turn of the century. You had the neoromantics like Rachmaninoff and Vaughan Williams. You had the impressionists. You had the second Viennese school. You had the Jazzists. You had totally unique composers like Bartok and Messiaen. These composers had little to do with eachother. So its hard to imagine a conductor, any conductor, whose "signature" would just so happen to interpret each of them faithfully.

>>69604154
>serialism
>romantic in any sense

>>69604314
>My music is not modern, it is merely badly played.

>>69604350
>what is rubato

I just learned that "Liszt" is Hungarian for flour, so had Franz Liszt been born in America he would have the rather unassuming name "Frank Flour"

Will I be punished for liking Mahler?

>>69604290
In terms of orchestration and tradition? yes

my point was that Debussy's orchestral works aren't sacharrine

>>69604314
>He thinks Schoeberg was a serialist

but don't forget They were all influenced by Wagner

>>69604350
Okay memeboy. Let's here a romantic interpretation of a post Verklarte Nacht period work.

>>69604402
>Mahluh

>>69604415
>my point is you used the wrong word

fair enough but I don't care

>>69604402
yea he was a tasteless, pretentious jew

>>69604402
How did you do it?
I'm unable to sit through one of his symphonies.

>>69604499
I listened to Das Lied von der Erde while reading translated lyrics for it

>>69604402
nah, Mahler is good
especially his 9th and Das Lied. 5 is overrated meme shit

>>69604423
listen to any of the Kolisch quartet recordings of his works and you get just that.

and it's exactly how he wanted his stuff played

>>69604621
>5 is overrated meme shit
inb4 Poly

What's the high pitch instrument at 3:47~

https://youtu.be/VQHZcORowlc?t=223

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>>69589410
eisler #1 manlet serialist

>>69604621
>5 is overrated meme shit
faggot

>>69604994
its all electronic synthesized trash.

>>69604290
Karajan haters always talk garbage, ignore them.

>>69605165
It's a 74 piece orchestra

>>69605122
Fuck off poly.

>>69600050
Fuck you with your Konbini links

>>69604314

Schoenberg bitched publicly multiple times about pianist virtuoso playing his music as romantic music.

He concieved it as new music, and any remand to the music of the past made him mad.

>>69603129
Does a contemporary "artist" even compete with Mozart's productivity? Consider a 8min beat on Maschine and you can't be as productive as Mozart was

>>69605883
>only poly likes mahler's 5th
faggot

>>69590812
Chopin did write songs though you pleb.

>>69605981
(not true, by the way.)

>>69605981
>Schoenberg bitched publicly multiple times about pianist virtuoso playing his music as romantic music.
citation?

his favorite performers were people like Furtwangler (whose performance of his music he loved) and people like Kolisch. both of which played his music closer to late 19th century performance styles. Kolisch in particular uses rubato, minimal vibrato, lots of portamenti, etc. and he deemed his quatet's performances as "perfect"

and Steuermann doesn't really strike me as a kind of more modern-styled performer either

>>69606028
yes Poly is definitely a faggot

>>69601847
Berlioz a shite m8, Worst Frenchie because he tried to imitate Bogs

Rameau, Ravel, Debussy, Faure, and Messiaen are the pentagon of French genius

>>69602839
>Thovenplebs

>>69600176
You are allowed to like them both you know.

>>69604994
I'm laughing uncontrollably right now. What the fuck is this

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>>69600176
>Italian Opera

>>69607186
>opera is called "opera" and not "werk" or "oeuvre"

Truly agitates the brain-cells

>>69607233
Italian Opera is garbage

Only Wagner truly took theatrical music to Shakespearean heights, everything good after him is simply a genius consequence

From the House of the Dead (and other Janacek) and Pelleas et Melisande remain the only post Tristan and Parsifal stage works to approach those heights

>>69607586
>Italian Opera is garbage
Pleb

>>69607586
>forgetting Wozzeck in spite of it basically being a supercharged Wagnerian Opera with tight-knit pacing

>>69607680
dislinking overweight spaghetti niggers screaming at the top of their lungs
>pleb

>>69607697
I haven't listened to much Berg outside of his instrumental compositions

I really need to give his opera a go, despite me hating the genre

The Marie in this gets me so rock hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGyNk0YR5Yg

>>69607775
Do it man, Wozzeck is amazing.

Lulu is quite good too, but it's unfinished ofc.

>>69607586
Italian opera is garbage after the baroque period*

>>69607878

>tfw only 4chan regular users can be so stupid

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>mfw plebs forget the best operas are Italian operas
>mfw Mozart and Verdi underrating

>>69607909
>Verdi
>good

Also Mozart Opera maybe Italian, but they are German in spirit

>>69607775
that's some awful taste in women senpai

I think I speak for Music when I say that German > Italian > Eastern Yurop

>>69608081
>I think I speak for volume of Music produced when I say that German > Italian > Eastern Yurop

>>69608027
The tits sell it senpai

>>69607909
>Verdi
>good

>>69608282

>Verdi
>not good

You're ignorant, hopefully someday you will be able to grow out of it.

>>69608528
>growing into trash opinions

Rec medieval music

>>69608769

the witcher 3 soundtrack

Recommend some Dvorak.

I've heard New World Symphony, Slavonic Dances, American Suite.

>tfw the best pianists in my conservatory are ignorant retards

I don't know, I feel that I can beat them in the long run. Most of them are managing to interpret pieces horribly and no one give them shit because they are actual prodigies, but I'm pretty sure that in 10 years from now I will be the most interesting pianist in the bunch.

Anyone else here feel the same?

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>>69608918
His chamber music is cool.

>>69608918
Symphony No. 5
Piano quintets
Cello concerto

>>69608953
>>69608963

Thanks.

Is Stabat Mater any good?

>>69608951
Which composers do you prefer to play? If they're just going to end up being yet another Chopin/Beethoven pianist and you aren't then I believe in you.

>>69608999
dunno, actually never listened to any of his choral works. weird should get on that

>>69608918
7th and 8th symphony and his serenade for strings

>>69604314
Have you even listened to Schoenberg's early works? Late romantic through and through, and he kept those sensibilities even when he was writing in a new style.

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new to /classical/ but I'm already assuming that late romanticism is a meme
Am I right?

>>69609451
Romanticism as a whole is a meme.

>>69609451
Hell, pretty muich all music ever made is a meme (except for Milhaud)

>>69609487
b-but I love it s-so much

>>69609541
Too bad. Listen to the real romantics like Mozart and Haydn.

>>69609604
>romantics
>like Mozart and Haydn.
>Mozart
>Haydn
what did he mean by this

>>69609609
>what did E.T.A. Hoffmann mean by this
ftfy

>>69590812
>getting pedantic about musical terms
yes there is a very clear distinction between piece and song, but not for someone who isn't familiar with classical music. Instead of getting autistic about semantics maybe try feeling lucky that you get to introduce someone to enjoyable art music

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1. Beethoven
2. Scriabin
3. Faure
4. Debussy
5. Grieg

This is the best list of greatest post-Mozart keyboard composers, prove me wrong faggots

Cuckpin cucks need not apply

>honorable mentions
>Ravel, Liszt, Schumann

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>>69609867
>2. Scriabin

>>69609862
you are mentally retarded

>>69609948
Cuckpin cuck detected

you know Scriabin was a perfumed man while Chopin was a skirt wearing faggot

>tfw Chopin wrote his piano concertos when he was 20

>>69609984
>Scriabin formalists use the cuck meme
Chopin is a lot better and Debussy should be higher. Liszt should be there too.

>>69610008
>tfw it was shit

>>69610036
>Chopin is a lot better

Elevator is that way

>>69600971
Yes but both are inferior to the Germanic one.

>>69610083
Faure and Grieg are elevator music desu

I only know that Grieg song that goes "dun! dun dun dunnn... dun dun dunnn dun dun dunnn dun dun dunnn" and the Mountain King. He doesn't strike me as that special.

>>69610132
>Faure and Grieg are charming geniuses that never fall into melodramatic antics like Cuckpin

FTFY

Actually good French music coming through
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AFj1YWI9yE

>>69601011
Go suck an egg.

>>69610150
>He hasn't heard the lyric suites

thats like saying Ravel is boring after listening to Bolero

>>69610212
>Actually good French music coming through

All French music is good music besides Boulez and Berlioz

>>69610284
Boulez is good too

After watching Amadeus, I really enjoy Dies Irae and especially Lacrimosa by Mozart. Winter by Vivaldi is fun too. How should I continue to explore classical music?

>>69610307
Also Clair de Lune by Debussy

>>69601958
Have some Prokofiev.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLk6EEOlrU

>>69602839
So one was a classical composer and the other a pseudo-romantic composer

Where do i start with Schubert?

>>69607586
>muh gesamtkunstwerk
If you don't like Verdi you don't like having fun.

>>69610487
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NvXM09b4xU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bosouX_d8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDVJkxGz_Tc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XP5RP6OEJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fXYjSmR6Bw

>>69609958
>enjoying semantic arguments
Excuse me for not feeling smug about having knowledge that's useless outside of an academic context. Knowing the difference between a song and a piece is entry level musical knowledge, but everyone's a pleb with some artistic genre. Acting superior for it just makes you an asshole.

>>69610307
Symphony 40 by Mozart for something to immediately listen to.

>>69610150
>>69610281

Its not as though there is anything wrong with the piano concerto anyway. Its a great piece

>>69609210
I wasn't talking about the handful of early works. That is hardly what "schoenberg" is understood to be.

>>69608951
are they all chinky?

>>69609528
>except for Milhaud

ISWYDT

http://www.strawpoll.me/11857165

Here, have some nice advent music with your bump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ViCP_T8vDw

(To be honest, I thinkthe framework idea of the Messiah Oratorio as a constantly-evolving piece is interesting if not completely agreeable, but Jesus Christ the execution is awful).

Pleb here. Bruckner's 9th is the most amazing thing I've ever heard. I need more of this kind of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94CyeU1lxb4

>>69611440
he never really lost his late romantic sensibilities. his orchestration and color are still late romantic, even if his harmony and melodies aren't

>>69609867
Anton Reicha, Arensky, Shostakovich and Lera Aerbach exist

>>69612884
Mahler 1, 2, 5, 6
Bruckner 8

>>69613158
This
People forget all of the SVS were really just Romantics in sheeps clothing.

>>69612884
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oKHtk_MGNs

obligatory

>>69613727
>artificial stereo
what a memer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faMDhKKTVcU
Comfy

>>69602858
>5000 * 200 = 1.25 million
You must be American

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>>69604402
You'll be punished for liking pretty much anything on /classical/.

>>69615407
anyone know how tall richard strauss was?

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>>69615698
He's a big guy.

>>69615799
hmm daddy

Is Charles Ives for plebs?