POPTIMISTS BTFO

wtf i love infowars now

>>69469239
the maynstreem medier

God damn I hate this retard.

Ok, so what is pop-music's endgame?

>>69469239
in all seriousness, I really don't like how liking/defending mainstream corporate pop music is now a sign of being open-minded and/or progressive. corporate leftism is fucking sickening

nothing against pop in general, though

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POp YOU LAUH MEW SIQ

>>69469277
>>69469323
ima bet 50 memebux on samefag

>>69469313
what is corporate leftism

>>69469313
this but unironically

>>69469358
Beyonce

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>>69469239
TUH MAYNESTREM METEOR IS TRYYN TO BRAAENWOOSH YOU

>>69469358
like I said, defending shitty cynical corporate products as a form of left wing activism

like how beyonce is an icon for feminism and racial equality, when she serves mostly to make money for white men. and if you dare question people's unwavering love for her you're sexist and racist

>>69469401
Adorno tried to warn us.

>>69469398
braaenwarsh*

It's not hard or impressive to BTFO poptimists. Literally every other genre of music is better.

>>69469239
B R A I N W A S H E D

>>69469393
Beyonce is a corporation?

>>69469401
I'm just confused as to who these corporate leftists are. Like, is this some sort of political ideology, some organized conspiracy to make people buy Beyonce records?

ugh why do people have to politicise this shit

i like me some taylor swift cuz i'm a bit of a fuccboi and i enjoy catchy pop music

i certainly wouldn't try and defend her as some great feminist icon, and i also accept that a lot of her success probably isn't her own doing and it's highly questionable how much of her material she actually wrote regardless of the what the albums' writing credits say

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>>69469398
THINK

FOUR

YOUR SHELF

>>69469401
lmao he called out kanye for being talentless.

he's not a singer fag.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPvHoxlY3UY

>>69469471
I don't think it's a complete conspiracy, it's definitely opportunistic though

it's just normal left wing ideology being co-opted by corporations to make them money. people consuming politics instead of acting it (e.g. I am a feminist if I buy a beyonce CD)

Isn't Taylor Swift one of the only mainstream artists to not pull for Hillary? I literally cannot think of any other one

>>69469530
and what I mean by the last point is that if you truly hated old white men and/or the power they have, you wouldn't actually buy a beyonce cd and attack people who criticize her. but apparently all that matters is that you look the part, and supporting beyonce is still "feminist" or whatever on a surface level

>>69469530
Yeah, that's definitely happening. I think that's just regular old marketing though. Corporate leftism just sounds like a made up thing like Cultural Marxism.

>>69469401
Beyoncé still serves as an icon of POC's empowerment regardless of whom she works with.

Source: POC

>people consuming politics instead of acting it

what is wrong with that

>>69469239
WOW! It's like he said what were all thinking!

>>69469570
Well, actually, I disagree with this point. This is like saying that if you purchase a feminist text published by a major publisher you are not a feminist, or buying a bikini kill album is wrong since their label is run by white ppl... or you can't be anti-capitalist and ever buy something in a capitalist society.

I mean, essentially if you're living by this logic you'll never support feminist art.

>>69469576
well yeah I literally just made it up on the spot because it sounded like a succinct way of making my point

>>69469588
that's kinda my point. she's just an icon. just something on the surface. and black people and women spend shitloads of money on beyonce shit, so who's really being empowered there in practice. vast majority of that money is going to sony

>>69469239
I can't watch the video rn but judging by you guys' comments does this mean that hating pop music is an alt-right thing now?

>>69469637
You could argue that by supporting a woman of colour, they are engaging in an ideological or cultural shift. I agree with you to an extent though, the music industry is hopelessly dominated by white men and Beyonce is perhaps not the best icon for change.

>>69469652
Nah, it's only an alt-right thing if you turn it into some conspiracy about le SJWs forcing you to like black music.

The youtuber in OP is a anti-feminist, however.

>>69469239
Why the fuck does he talk like that?

Had to stop watching because of the way he purposely says everything in that stupid mechanical voice, what a shit gimmick

>>69469630
you're right, I just don't like the centralization of things. where beyonce is "the" feminist icon, and you have to like her to be a real feminist. because to me that only serves someone else's best interests (which is the company behind her)

I definitely don't mean to say that people shouldn't buy anything by a major publisher or corporation, just that how aggressively protective they are of that order is kinda disturbing, especially while pushing radical politics

>>69469652
what's alt-right in this thread?

freddy mercury was so talented what happened to pop music guys we used to have freddy mercury now we have kanye west tf oh look one source says that it's getting dumber oh look science objective fact confirmed

>>69469518
>Libertarian Socialist Rants
Closed

People keep linking me to this twat. Youtube is a fucking cesspool

>>69469702
Well, the problem is that the mainstream music industry is clearly only really pushing women who fit the criteria of being sufficiently sexualized for dudes. It's kind of difficult to have a "good" feminist icon in the current music climate. In many ways, an artist like Beyonce is the best you're going to get in the mainstream, but that might be a good first step to a more open and inclusive world for female musicians. Yeah, she's serving some rich ass white dudes needs to fill his pocket, but that's going to happen no matter what music is being pushed in the mainstream. I don't really even like Beyonce, to be honest. I have a lot of problems with her too, but contextually, she's better than what else is out there.

>>69469729
>different views trigger me

this is the same retard who argued that "modern art isn't art"

>>69469792
but my problem with that is that politics should go deeper than just what celebrities you like. a lot of people's engagement just stops at which pop star they identify with, and I see that a lot with this beyonce thing. and if you criticize that order you're a fedora or whatever buzzword they're using now. we saw that with turnout at the last election. media and culture industry dominated by left wing, but only the closeted right wing cares enough to actually get out and vote

I don't know, it just worries me that consuming celebrity and pop music, things which are inherently inhuman in that they exist solely to make money for a faceless corporation, are now an accepted form of activism.

these people don't agree with you or really care about you, they're just selling your ideas back to you to make a quick buck. I guess that's the difference between this and buying a feminist book from a major publisher

>>69469971
more people voted for hillary than trump. so no.

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>tfw too intelligent for alt-righttube

>>69469971
Yeah I agree, but at the same time Trump is exactly the kinda celebrity as the pop stars that lefties identify with. Just in general the way we consume media is fucking terrible.

>>69469239
love that he's a proponent of consumer capitalism and shits on consumerist pop music.

the people have spoken you limey fuck. they don't like the smiths, they like edm. consumer sovereignty reigns supreme.

>>69470108
>love that he's a proponent of consumer capitalism and shits on consumerist pop music.
this so much

>>69470014
>more people voted for hillary than trump
but the numbers for trump were way higher than people expected, given that he "had no chance" hours before his victory

you're definitely oversimplifying if you think hillary winning the popular vote means things went as expected in terms of turnout, especially outside of california and new york

>>69470096
true, this election cycle was like watching wwe. and again it's the faceless corporation thing. I don't believe all those left wing mainstream media outlets really hated or feared trump, they just loved the opportunity he gave them to make sensationalist articles that generate a shitload of money. same with the pop stars, they don't give a fuck they just want your money. we need more grassroots media and culture really

>>69470108
>the people have spoken
lmao

>>69469239
Consuming different kinds of music has never been easier. Creating and distributing music has never been easier.
The fuck is this slick faggot even talking about.

>>69470254
>Consuming different kinds of music has never been easier. Creating and distributing music has never been easier.
And yet actual listening habits do not reflect this. Tyranny of choice

It's almost like having a YouTube channel makes any random person think their opinion is worth shit.

i havnt watched alex jones since my retarded conspiracy theory phase in 2010, but i seem to recall this guy's favorite band being Muse, meaning his opinion on music is worthless

what about kpoptimism

this was so annoying i couldn't get through this

>>69470198
>but only the closeted right wing cares enough to actually get out and vote

that was your assertion and its not true.

>>69470376
if you take it to literally mean that no one on the left voted, sure, but there's no need to be that disingenuous anon

>>69470337
t. drone

>>69470277
I'm not sure what your point is. My point is that technological advances have made the consumption and production of art more democratic than ever.
I'm not sure that people listening to the 'same' music is a problem. And I'm not sure its more prevalent now then it was back in the tin pan alley days, or before recorded music. And no one has shown any data , but they just bitch about EDM.

>>69470406
i'm not being disingenuous. i'm just asserting that plenty of people cared. so many in fact, that hillary won the popular vote. if you can't craft your narrative around that fact, i dont know what to tell you.

I'm going absolutely full autismo in the comment section because this cunt legitimately triggers me.

>>69470643
>i'm just asserting that plenty of people cared
of course, just not as many as expected

>>69469576
>>69469471
>>69469358
is this dude literally retarded?

>>69469323
steve albini?

>>69469313
i think it goes hand in hand with promoting piracy, that even though of course it doesn't make you completely irresponsible for the proliferation of capitalist pop icons it creates a certain disconnect between the money and the enjoyment of the music

so there's this line of thought that you dont have to pretend to like inaccessible garbage just to stick it to the man because it's completely unmarketable (for good reason), you don't have to alienate yourself from your peers either, and the musical underground has pused this "we're real man, they're fake" narrative for so long it's franky sickening, i completely understand why you'd turn to pop music after hanging around this sort of elitism for too long

>>69469576
Just because you don't understand things doesn't mean they're "made up." Please remove your head from your ass.

>>69469699
Because of autism

>>69469725
Everything you disagree with :^)

>>69470045
He isn't alt right tho

I just like me just a little bit of pop music every now and then, man. I don't give a fuck about politics.

>>69469699
his audience isn't particularly intelligent

same reason milo has to throw in a trigger warning joke every two minutes, alex jones has to pretend every little thing is an ELE etc

>>69469239
THE AWLT ROIGHT IS GAYNING MOEMENTOOOM

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this is a cringe thread now

Paul Joseph Watson has never made a girl cum. You heard it here first.

>>69471174
>now

did you miss the content of the op video

The study hes talking about
seatsmart(dot)/blog/lyric-intelligence/

>>69471174
it always was

>>69471148
kek

>>69471272
kek

>>69469239
Why'd he have to bring up Moz? Jeez get him away from The Smiths and leave him to his buttrock

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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

>>69469239
KAY TEE PEH REE

>>69469239
>I was born in le wrong generation!!!
>xD DAE think all modern music sucks??! There aren't good bands like Led Zeppelin and Queen anymore!!

Holy fuck I cannot stand faggots who legitimately think this. Excellent music is still being made, you are just too retarded to actually look for it and find it. Hilariously he cites the Smiths, but while they were releasing music in the 80s there was a huge amount of pop drivel on mainstream radio. The Smiths were underground. He only knows about them because of their elevated status in the public eye due to hindsight. Just this year Nick Cave's the Skeleton Tree contained some of the best lyrics I have ever heard on a record, ever. Bar none. But of course he doesn't know about that. Guaranteed that in 20 years kids will be saying the same thing, "music sucks now! does anyone wish they still made good music like Animal Collective or Death Grips??!"

Basically people who literally know basically nothing about the state of modern music should restrain themselves from commenting on the state of modern music.

>>69470370
Agreed man.
Its just annoying to listen to

"pop Music Is.. All.. THE... SaMe.."
"if you look at the Top.. Bill..Board... LISTS... "

>>69469239
Why the fuck does he enunciate everything like that? This has to be some of the worst script delivery I've seen on youtube

>IT'S AN OBJECTIVELY PROVABLE FAHCT
stopped watching there.

absolutely the most insufferable, fucking annoying youtuber of all time. fuck him and his fucking accent

>>69469588
2 be honest POC to black people only means black people lol

>>69469816
no, retarded views trigger me

Paul Joseph Watson is a confirmed pleb who listens to Clint Mansell soundtracks on repeat, looking
for ominous background music to his chappy conspiracy theories

>>69471472
>The Smiths were underground.
the smiths had numerous top ten singles; after hand in glove, all of their subsequent releases except one charted within the uk top thirty. not to mention a #1 album with meat is murder

>>69471472
alright, r/listentothis finally weighed in

let's call it a day fellas

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>>69470045
>tfw watching people who comment that they are too intelligent when they are clearly not

>>69471559
he knows his audience is retarded so he has to speak slowly

>muh lyricism
>the voice is the only criteria for talent

is he actually retarded? pop has fantastic, catchy melodies set to accessible lyrics. which has been happening since radio was invented.

he'd be saying the same shit about this in the 50s: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KaE3q3FYZI

>cites Morrissey and Marr while ignoring the vapid synthpop that came from the same era
>says that he understands that there have always been shit pop songs, but continues to act like the smiths topped the charts and that there are no good modern acts

i just don't understand

>>69469239
lol he unironically has a map behind him

>>69469239
Paul the Reptilian does it again.

>>69469239
This man is literally retarded\
We settled this last time this vid was posted

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>>69469297
not an argument

>>69469451
?
no

>>69469895
>modern art isn't art
no shit

>>69470045
implying you are

>>69471929
You are literally retarded.

>>69471767
>implying 95% of radio station aren't own by the same fucks and don't put big label songs over and over again on repeat until it's stuck in your head.
Do your research idiot.

>>69472047
what does that have do with what he posted in any way

/mu/ in a nut shell
> Your statement goes against my belief, that must mean you are retarded.
Lots of fuck heads like that in here.

>>69472047
>listening to terrestrial radio in 2016

these people deserve to hear the same shit over and over. they're the only people too stupid to find something else

>>69472070
>It's not relevant
Wew

>>69471672
Awww, well that's nice of him.

>>69472106
Did you ever go shopping or drive a car?

>>69472130
the post you replied to:
"Pop music is more complex than what is being said"

your post:
"radio is a massive conglomerate that dictates what is played"

>>69472015
Okay man I guess I should start believing the government shoots up schools for gun control

>>69472171
>which has been happening since radio was invented.
>which has been happening since radio was invented.
>which has been happening since radio was invented.
>which has been happening since radio was invented.

>>69472180
>implying this is what I believe
Do you have critical thinking abilities?

>>69472192
My favorite jam from the 1960's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NuofNHKbVc
The complex harmonies and time signatures are just perfect
>>69471990
>>modern art isn't art
>no shit

>Art is a diverse range of human activities in creating visual, auditory or performing artifacts (artworks), expressing the author's imaginative or technical skill, intended to be appreciated for their beauty or emotional power

>what does the alt-right believe?!

no one gives a shit.

>>69472192
He's saying that pop has featured fantastic, catchy melodies set to accessible lyrics while you're saying that songs are played over and over again. The two are not mutually exclusive.

People can like popular things without being forced to like them.

>>69472218
Good reading comprehension. I'm implying alex jones' britbong friendo believes the govt. does school shootings

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>>69472232
>wikipedia
Wow I am convinced. Check this French modern art piece from 1917.

>>69472319
so you don't understand art at all, got it

>>69469614
What exactly do you mean by this? Genuinely curious.

>>69472341
>he trusts wikipedia

>>69472275
What are you even arguing about at this point? He mentioned it had to do with the radio. You keep ignoring my point with hurr durr not relevant enough for me

>>69472286
strawman. You drink diet pepsi all day and dropped out of high school.

LITERALLY nu-fedora

>>69472161
>can't bring an aux cord
>can't bring the blue tooth
>can't have CDs
>can't have cassettes
>can't find a classical station
>can't find a jazz station
>can't find the local college radio station
>can't listen to NPR

wow, the corporations are controlling everything!

>>69472319
What's your definition of art

>>69472047
>the fact that radio stations play music over and over makes the music bad
wrong.

>>69472192
it literally has been happening since radio was invented. are you actually claiming that big corporations and record companies didn't repeatedly play songs until people liked them in the past?

>>69472341
you sure convinced me, brainlet

get out of here before you embarrass yourself, further

>>69472341
Yeah, you gotta be an undergrad in Art otherwise you can't understand what art is.

>>69472083
>all opinions are equal :-)

you have to go back

>>69472406
>>69472408
>>69472369
>actually not understanding the idea that art is in the eye of the beholder, and that art is inherently subjective

go jerk off to your photorealistic reddit paintings on /r/pics you mongoloids

>>69472392
That's a question for philosophers. I'd say anything we create is art to some degree.

>>69472319
>art is a category of things or behavior of which i can provide definitive necessary and sufficient conditions

enjoy your thomas kinkades my dude

>>69472442
>and that art is inherently subjective
how to spot someone that didn't study art, or studied art at a non-top 10

there are objective elements to art, brainlet

>>69472445
no art is pretty painting that look like nature you fucking retard #banmodern"art"2k17

>>69472445
Nah it was a question for him, but also I'll disagree in that I think anything we create _can_ be art. But I'd like to hear his definition.

>>69472455
>how to spot someone that didn't study art, or studied art at a non-top 10
i absolutely guarantee you didn't study art at a top 10 art school.

anyway, no there aren't objective elements to art. there are objective qualities to "skill" in terms of technical ability, but in terms of finished products there is no objective quality in which to measure art against

>>69472442
how could it be subjective if there is art people can agree upon to be better than other art.

you could have a dirty sock and some painting by some late 19th century master and have people pick between them. Its obviously not subjective

>>69472406

using wikipedia for a definition is infinitely more reputable than some dipshit on 4chan's assertion of what he thinks art is which just so happens to be tailored to support his beliefs and arguments

>>69472442
laffin.
>that looks very difficult. it must be great art!
>that looks easy. it must be very bad art, if even art at all.

>>69472319
Yes we've all seen duchamp. I feel bad if you think all art has to be pretty oil paintings,

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>>69472455
>objective elements in something based in beauty,
>aka something subjective

>>69472421
>all opinions are equal.
Obviously not, but you can argue instead of calling people retarded and pretend they believe in reptilians.

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>>69469239

this guy is a snob. it's off-putting

what music does he listen to that makes better than the general public? he looks like a fucking normie so he probably has shit taste

>>69472494
i didn't use wikipedia you fucking brainlet

go study art at a non-state school you absolute failure

>>69472489
yes, I did. Class of '09 at RISD you fucking loser.

and yes, there are.

god why do I argue with dumb fucking middle-class retards

>>69472375
I have 10 PhDs mother fucker and I drink coke zero

By the way, I don't think using his irrational beliefs is a strawman fallacy for me saying he is retarded

>>69472535

that makes him better*

>>69472543
good god I hope this is bait

>>69472543

i didnt say you did
it was in reference to you making fun of a guy for using the wiki definition of art

i cant tell if you're just pretending to be retarded or not

>>69472555
>I drink coke zero
disgusting

>>69472491
alright, we misunderstood each other.

i'm saying that art is contextual, not that there aren't well-agreed upon metrics in which to measure quality in artwork.

for instance, duchamp is a very acclaimed artist. that piece that anon posted may not take as much "skill" as some photorealistic painting of a barn, but most people can agree that in terms of influence and originality, it's ahead of the painting.

dismissing modern art just because it doesn't take "skill" is absolutely retarded and insults the foundation of artistry in general

>>69472497
that's literally the opposite of what i'm arguing

>>69472543
nice appeal to authority

>>69472517
>but you can argue instead of calling people retarded
again, you have to go back

this thread is almost as bad as the video

>>69472598
nice fallacy fallacy

it's an appeal to expertise, you fucking idiot

>>69472543
>Class of '09 at RISD you fucking loser.
i bet man. i'll be waiting for the proof you won't or can't provide. but even if you provide it your argument is shit and being a RISD alum doesn't excuse that

also way to defend your point

>>69472455
>objective conditions of art

please enumerate the objective elements of art, and show how each is determinate (and thus, can be clearly seen, or not, for any piece), and show that these elements hold across all cultures and time periods.

we'll all wait.

>>69472622
>implying there can be expertise in something in
>which the quality is subjective

>>69472619
>ur all stupid xDDDD

fucking leave the thread and kill yourself if you're not going to contribute

>>69472650
yes there can since the latter is false, you fucking idiot

dumb state-school retard wasted his money

>>69472576
I was making reference to mediocre looking art being valued in millions by (((experts))) yet no one seem to understand why. The answer I always get is "you have to study and understand some fancy concepts".

>>69472662
except it isn't, friendo

>>69472656
you sound upset

>>69472535
he likes the smiths and muse.

>>69472543
we all know that's not true. why even lie?

>>69472674
except there's elements of both

try to go to college, and a good one. i can't waste my time anymore with uneducated high-schoolers that don't have the mental facilities to attend a decent school.

>>69472583
i know. i was laughing at your statement. i agree with you.

>>69472662
>art is objective

literally the epitome of alt-right cancer. no artist in the world would agree with you

>>69472679
i am. posts like yours add absolutely nothing to the conversation and your smugness is fucking embarrassing

>>69472701
>rich kid who's parents paid for art school saying
>he's smarter than everyone else
kek

>>69472710
i didn't say that you absolute knob

wow, the state-schooler has piss poor reading comprehension and a sub-115 IQ

who would have thought

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>>69472701
this elite art school bullshit has to be bait

>>69472710
>posts like yours add absolutely nothing to the conversation
this thread was shit when it started. go discuss this meaningless shit on another board

>>69472707
oh. when you quote someone like that it's normally to mock them

hilarious thread, good job guys

>>69472747
well i meant it to quote some 3rd person who held such views.

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>>69469239
My god what a hunk!

>>69472701
Mind explaining those mystery fancy concepts making shit looking Modern Art piece worth millions, Mr. Highly Educated person?

>Coldplay is shit

I liked VLV tho

>>69472782
did you know that installing a flouride filter will get you tones of pussy guaranteed?

>>69472740
>this thread was shit when it started. go discuss this meaningless shit on another board

>a board about art has no place discussing the subjectivity of artwork!!!
you look retarded

>>69472730
>the quality [of art] is subjective
>[That] is false, you fucking idiot
you literally said that exact thing. I thought your 130 IQ and RISD education would have shown you how to make a basic argument but i guess they gloss over that stuff when teaching you how to paint

>>69472730
>>69472701

this has all the desperation of some kid who's parents are breathing down his neck about college apps, and knows he won't get in anywhere good.

maybe you can write an essay about how being white is actually a kind of diversity. i'm sure no one has thought of that!

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The reason why music is dumb is not because of some sort of chemtrails or whatever infowars thinks

It's because of piracy affecting the billboard charts which affects radio play. Basically, black people and basic bitches don't know how to use utorrent and you are hearing the music that those people listen to.

>>69472732
search up the rates of acceptance into top graduate schools for different tiers of undergrad, all for students with similar GPAs and experience

read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/education/edlife/why-you-cant-catch-up.html

if you are doing undergrad at a lower tier school than tier 1, abandon all hope you fucking trash loser

there is nothing, LITERALLY nothing you can do to join the elite ranks like the lucky few such as myself. from the day you joined that disgusting trash state school, your future was cemented as being another dumb middle-class serf.

people hate to hear it, but your undergrad education is the most important, doubly so for STEM autists who will get laughed out of their engineering interviews

you are a loser, and you will forever be at a school for losers, desu

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>>69472850
my god

>>69472812
i used to be that kid. truth be told, i probably would have killed myself if I didn't get into a good school

having attended RISD is something that actually keeps me alive, sad to say

>>69472850
see
>>69472812

you're not fooling us

>>69472810
>a board about art has no place discussing the subjectivity of artwork!!!
>/mu/ - Music
this isn't a music discussion you're having

>>69472889
it's nicer to assume that than to accept that in this thread, there may lie someone superior to you, someone on a higher social and financial caste than you. that would be very comforting, wouldn't it, my friend

>>69472903
>music isn't art

is that really the argument you're making? why are you even on a music board?

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>>69472850

>RIGHT NOW, as we speak, there are people on /mu/ that literally think art is objective and quantifiable

what happened to my dear board

>>69472921
>is that really the argument you're making?
no you fucking idiot, I'm saying that this board is specifically for music discussion
you're discussing a stupid issue that has no place in this board and you're using "music is art" as an excuse to do that

>>69472903
>music isn't art xD
wew

>>69472960
no one thinks that you retard

your school was probably ranked in the 50s

This fucking retarded mouth breathing alt righter has generated a 192 reply thread. Good job retards.

>>69472973
not what I said

>>69472850
half the other programmer's at my office don't even have BAs, you're just a fortunate son with no brains, enjoy your life of mediocrity

>>69472989
>alt righter

no one uses that term unironically except the MSM.

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>>69472850
Is this art?

>>69472989
are you another human that attended an elite college? How do you resist the urge to leave this place?

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>>69472979
>begin a slave to the college machine
>thinking your opinion matters

>>69472963
>I'm saying that this board is specifically for music discussion
this is literally a discussion about art, and a music board is a great place to do this. name a better board to discuss this on. /lit/? same fucking problem.

>>69472989
This thread should have been deleted long ago.

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>>69472999

>>69472989
>discussing art is bad because I don't like this guy >:(

?

>>69473012
I don't fucking care where you discuss this, this isn't the place to do it.

>>69473009
whoa dude you got me! i went to a college!

>>69473033
nah, discussing this morons retarded video is bad because the entire premise is fucking retarded

>>69472916
>>69472979

you think that because people can't 'verify' your assertions, that you're coming off possibly credible, but you're not. its pretty transparent. if you had a shred of emotional intelligence you'd understand that

>>69473063
>you can only argue about stuff I approve

???

>>69473056
it literally is and i'm happy that you're angry about it

>>69473073
>emotional intelligence
what did he mean by this

>>69473090
you know what, you're right
I don't even know why I'm angry about such a stupid thing
just keep doing your thing

>>69473080
In the first five seconds of the video the guy declares that some music is "objectively more intelligent" than others.

Like 90% of his videos, you can disregard everything he has to say because the majority of it is fucking retarded.

Maybe you're the kind of retard that subscribes to his videos and likes them on youtube, the fact that this has turned into a discussion is embarrassing.

>>69473110
:) thanks friendo

>>69473110
wow, that was pretty civile. Good job, sport.

>>69473073
it's rather obvious what you're doing. keep protecting your fragile ego, and maybe it'll take pain away from the fact that you'll never have parents that break a six-figure salary with a starting digit bigger than 4.

>>69471611
>different views trigger me

>>69473132
im just fucking around hes infuriatingly retarded

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this entire thread

>>69473156
>i'm more intelligent than both sides!!! xD

literally "I didn't vote": the poster

>>69473140
bro, i happy your parents are making it. i'm sorry that they have such high expectations of you that you are hurt that you won't get into the schools they expect of you.

don't worry about me, i'm on the come up.

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>>69473195

>>69473195
>voting in the last election

are you fucking retarded?

>>69473204
>unrelated reddit reaction image

nice

>>69473213
Hillcucks in this thread, now.

Great.

>>69473213
it was more about at least having an opinion and not saying "both candidates sux so i don't vote for any1"

>>69473213
>letting a bunch of stupid old people decide the most powerful person on your country
people who don't vote are even worse than any trump or hillary suporter

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>>69473224

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>>69471401

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>>69473224

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>>69473262

>>69473423
>>69473262
shit, meant to quote >>69473286

>>69469239
Pop music might be worse than it ever has been but this dude's methodology is bullshit. Using his Reddit-tier STEM "objectivity" garbage to analyze lyrical and musical aesthetics and completely misunderstanding the history and context of the last 75 years of music. And then he has the gall to take his surface-level-ass observations about top 40 pop music and use them to make sweeping generalizations about humanity and the direction society's going. Also using atrocious horseshit like Queen and the Foo Fighters as examples of back when music was better. Plus talking about music all sounding the same today when artists in the 40s and 50s would routinely release several versions of the exact same song with different lyrics. ("Move it on Over" and "Mind your own business" by Hank Williams, for example)

Pop music sucks, sure, whatever, but absolutely none of the awful shit this fucker is into has ever been subversive. "Another Brick in the Wall" is such a boring, cliche, hollow critique; so was everything Zappa ever put out. The truly radical music in this shithead's imaginary golden age of pop music sold then how it sells now: extremely poorly.

>>69473445
thorough and accurate

>>69473445
go ahead and name some "subversive" music then

>>69473445
>Reddit-tier STEM "objectivity"
laffin

>>69469588
>source: POC

when the hell were you a pirate of the Caribbean you idiot

>>69473195
this guy. we all know there are only two sides, sjw and alt right.

>>69472387
NPR is part of le grand globalist scheme you dunce

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>>69473709
>implying sjw boogeymen are real things

>>69473826
fuck! it was a scheme by terry gross the whole time

>>69473828
hehe

>>69469239
The way this faggot enunciates everything is a pain in the ass

>>69472671
> ((( )))

welp, there it is at last lol. you're shit dude and use racism to cover up the fact that you're not v bright or capable of abstract thought

>>69469239
holy shit i've always hated this autistic cuck and his obnoxious speech impediment

>>69469239
>citing billy corgan to support any opinion ever

fucking why

>>69473390
NOW IF I FUCK THIS MODEL

>>69473140
kek bro top 5 albums. i'll be able to tell if you're lying

>>69469239
not everything he's saying is necessarily "wrong", he just happens to be a cancerous moron in general

>>69473544
I don't know, I guess you could argue against probably anything I'd say because it's not like there are a lot of (or any?) musicians that have actually been successful in effecting serious change in society. But there are tons of musicians whose politics are more developed, interesting, and radical than some mainstream white hippy "blah blah authority is, like, bad, man!" shit. I'm mostly thinking of certain people working in free jazz/improvisation, rock in opposition, certain scenes within house and techno, and musique concrete, but you can find musicians in most genres politics that are more genuinely subversive than any of the music this YouTuber listens to.

Of course, he's a capitalist apologist so he'd probably find it very convenient for there to be more art in the mainstream that appears radical but is ultimately ineffective at creating any kind of coherent revolutionary consciousness.

>>69474363
Nothing he says is necessarily "right" either though.

>>69474376
the best part of this is that, given the contradictions in asserting that all consumerist music sucks now and defending the 'free' market, he must probably square the circle by asserting that music is so bad because that's what 'they' want you to listen to.

its tedious and transparent.

>>69474557
Yeah, I don't even know where to start with that. I can't tell if he's contradicting himself and complaining that the free market's not working, or if he's blaming the consumers here so he can make himself feel like he's a "good consumer" without having to come to terms with the fact that there's no real escape from consumerism at the moment and that it's probably making us all stupid

>>69472884
>RISD
>haven't killed yourself

that's surprising

>>69474376
>certain people working in free jazz/improvisation, rock in opposition, certain scenes within house and techno, and musique concrete
name them (im genuinely interested)

>>69474758
(he didn't go there)

>>69474557
gonna assume the guy will blame "corporatism" for the state of pop music

>>69474900
can you unpack this for me? how does he/would he analytically distinguish the free market from corporate power arising from that market?

>>69474973
things he likes = capitalism
things he does not like = corporatism

I don't know how to unpack his retardation.

>>69474764
Okay uh I mean there's a whole lot and it kinda depends on what you're interested in both musically and politically but I can at least name a few I've been listening to recently that have politics I'd consider fairly radical and interesting:

>Spontaneous Music Ensemble
>AMM
>Sun Ra
>Albert Ayler
>Black Unity Trio
>Art Ensemble of Chicago (basically anyone associated with the AACM)
>New York Art Quartet
>Chino Amobi
>Elysia Crampton
>n-polenta
>DJ Sprinkles
>Crass
>Downtown Boys
>Henry Cow
>Underground Resistance
>Trevor Wishart
>DJ Spooky
>Drexciya
>PWR BTTM

I'm sure I could think of a ton more but I was just scrolling through my library really quickly there. And I'm not saying that all of those artists release their music with perfect little manifestos laying out a clear plan for revolution or some shit like that, but they all do a lot more interesting stuff than whatever this youtube boy thinks counts as political commentary in pop music.

he seems to believe in the iluminati. Id take what he says with a grain of salt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcS8YhtFKRI

>>69474973
I think that from what I can tell, when he says "corporatism" he means economies where corporations are able to game politics and create an unfree market where powerful companies can benefit from government interference and shit. So, like, every capitalist country in the world, then.

>>69469239
you dont have to listen to pop

there is still "good" music if you dont like pop

of course the music INDUSTRY will do whatever it can to maximize their profits

i dont understand the point of these videos
i guess its just to get those sweet (you)'s

>>69475049
>>69475174
yeah we're on the same page

>>69475368
right lol

>>69474376
>Of course, he's a capitalist apologist so he'd probably find it very convenient for there to be more art in the mainstream that appears radical but is ultimately ineffective at creating any kind of coherent revolutionary consciousness.
then again as you've said yourself working outside of the mainstream never really worked either, so you think it's a hopeless endeavor to make politics with music regardless of whether you're henry flynt or enter shikari? or is revolutionary music still valuable in some capacity?

>>69475582
not same guy, but subversive art, imo, only needs to upend preconceived notions of how the world is/must be. its about creating ideological gaps/spaces.

>>69472828
Lil Yachty figured it out so that clearly can't be it

>>69475582
Idk, that's something I've thought a lot about in the last few years and I really really don't know. I want the answer to be yes, revolutionary music / art is valuable because it can encourage people to broaden their thought, think outside of existing power structures, think abstractly, etc. etc.

But like... are the people who are seeking out and listening to beautiful, beautiful, communist free improvisation bullshit the people who need that art the most or is it just hoity-toity over-intellectualized bullshit that has no connection to the struggle on the ground?

Like I said, I really don't know the answer. I see both perspectives. I do hope that maybe the internet has the potential to facilitate more democratic exchanges of art that is abstract and challenging and revolutionary as fuck.

I know I'm changing directions a bunch here but let me blather for another second: Cornelius Cardew left AMM and dismissed all his old music and influences as "bourgeois" essentially because he felt that the kind of abstract music he was interested in was only accessible to people who were wealthy, educated, urban, etc. etc. Instead, he made a lot of shit-ass music (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juFdTpVh288) that was more "directly" connected to revolution and addressed to working people. I'm probably taking a lot of nuance away from Cardew's beliefs here but I'm not that sorry lol. I'm absolutely just defending AMM and "abstract" revolutionary art because I happen to like it, but it does feel condescending in its own way to create art that's deliberately less nuanced in an attempt to pander to the proletariat. Shouldn't one goal of a better society be that every single person has the freedom to think deeply and engage difficult and abstract concepts, instead of a select few academics and artists? Shouldn't art be MORE incorporated into the every day lives of ordinary people, not less? (Obviously a pretty minor goal when we have to deal with real problems first)

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>tfw the young turks have more subs than alex jones
how can we change this?

>>69476355
Purchase the Alexapure Pro Water Filtration System to prevent the globalists from poisoning your water sources, only $177 on sale now. Hurry up limited supplies http://store.infowars.com/Alexapure-Pro-Water-Filtration-System_p_1713.html

>>69476355
get a ton of burner phones, make a ton of gmail accounts, subscribe a ton, and then kill yourself for being a waste

>>69475660
Also, I agree with this to an extent? I think that's a really important thing but this focus has led to lots of artists in the world who attempt to be shocking to create ideological gaps/spaces but don't have any real substance behind that drive to rupture. I think that radical art should show us new ways of interacting with communities/environments/others/ourselves and shit.

>Watching Kanye butcher bohemian rhapsody made me a little sad

Just remember, this talentless hack Kanye is one of the most respected "artists" in this board. The fact that Queen's highly acclaimed artistry is degraded by such an irrelevant shit just pisses me off. Today's music is nothing but musical degeneracy.

thank god le alex jones meme man is here to tell me how to think god bless

>>69476920
Did you accidentally click on a link in a Sargon comment thread my man? I think you're in the wrong place.

>>69476920
If 9GAG was a band it would literally be Queen.

>>69473828
They do, they just have no power other than whining

Unlike /pol/ bigots who gleefully cheer on police brutality

>>69469313
Lets be cool and hate justin bieber together

>>69476920
but queen fucking suck. like, i don't have to like kanye better than queen to tell you that every fucking song they wrote was fakedeep trash

>>69476920
my sides have ascended

this whole thread is a goldmine, thanks everyone

>>69477298
>fakedeep trash
wat

pop music doesn't exist anymore. there's music radio stations choose to play to you, and that's it. it's no longer a quantifiable genre because there's simply too much shit out there.

>>69477166
cuck

>>69477313
Ignorance is the rejection of the truth. Good luck being brainwashed by a music industry bent on having its dick sucked by talentless people willing to have their asses fucked by every producer in every record label just to get their shitty noises spread out to the public for monetary gain. All this dumb cRap, popshit are just fake excuses to jack off their own one-digit IQ-ingested idiocy, all the while brainwashing an entire nation in their stupid music with this globalist, leftist propaganda turning people into idiots more by the minute.

Music is dead. Music, despite having its influential greats, have long faded into the past as leftists take over the stage and spout out their sonic bullshit down our throats. Welcome to the real world, kid, and face it. Today's music isn't music. It's deluded garbage.

>>69477324
i don't get what's unclear. all their music is awful, no matter how hard they try to have quirky lyrics and "epic" instrumentation

If you want to see something even more aids, scroll down from the video.

>>69469816
It's not that the views are different. "Libertarian Socialist" is an oxymoron. Why should I take anyone who calls themselves a Libertarian Socialist seriously?

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>>69477417

>>69477428
Because I would consider queen a fun band not a 2deep4u band. It just felt like a weird criticism

>>69477435
the term "libertarian" originally referred to left-wing anarcho-communism type stuff and has only been used by the right in the last 40 or 50 years

>>69477435
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

>>69477417
this is why nobody takes you seriously

>>69477457
Fair, I guess- I just know way too many people who think that queen have Really Interesting arrangements and lyrics and shit when they don't at all

>>69477459
>anarcho-communism
How exactly is this supposed to work on a national scale?

>>69477495
It doesn't work on a national level. That's the point of removing the state, dingus.

>>69477417
you sure showed them. fucking leftists LOL

>>69477495
idk don't ask me, I'm not an anarcho-communist. from what i gather, it probably isn't supposed to work on a national scale in the way that we'd think of a nation today. activity would focus pretty much entirely on local communities

>>69476834
i've enjoyed reading your other comments.

perhaps subversive art is a broader or separate category: subversive art could be just negative-- exposing; while radical art could be positive -- illustrating a project (as well as exposing the given by way of relief.)

one advantage of the broader view is that it avoids the vanguard/condescension concerns you touched on earlier. and perhaps we ask to much of art if it needs to be a blueprint for how to organize or relate to others. perhaps art has enough pretensions as it is.

a couple loosely related thoughts:
>have you ever seen barton fink? not that the coen's ought to be the last word on anything, but they are dealing with this very question. i would just agree with them that something like 'social realism' for the sake of social realism maybe misses the mark.
>Rorty finds the value in literature in the expanding the reader's empathy. in this way, good art (at least, narrative driven art) should combat false consciousness by its very production and consumption, pretty much regardless of what the substance of the narrative is.
>this makes music a interesting case, given that it is not really representational. here the issue could be more of how the art is consumed-- music created and participated in locally and communally would seem to be crucial.

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WhooOooOOooo cares about radioshit quality?

If someone is """courageous"""enough to get off their ass and find music they that's also complex and interesting than they'll be rewarded for it. But if someone isn't willing to do this, it's because they don't care about music beyond a "feel good" level, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Not everyone has to share this hobby.

>>69477495
Five minutes ago you didn't seem to know the meaning of the words socialist or libertarian. How about you do some reading to try to understand the things you're critical of so you don't dismiss people who've actually a single book in their life? No one's going to spoon feed you concepts you don't even understand.

>>69477417
reminder that you typed all that

>>69477596
this desu

>>69477612
I'm not the guy you're arguing with, you fucking sanctimonious retard, I just wanted to know how anarcho-communism is theoretically supposed to work.

>>69470432
kek

>>69477638
And you could read an article or watch a video rather than listen to some retarded teenager on an anime image board.

>>69477676
Would you just admit you mistakenly flew into a pretentious knee-jerk reaction to an innocent question instead of continuing to try and retain some kind of intellectual high-ground, fella?

>>69477715
Nah, kid, I don't give a shit if you think I'm pretentious or if you want to win le debate. Just fucking read something for once in your life and learn something.

>>69477734
You're the only one even participating in a debate between the two of us, man.

>>69477755
Cool dude. Did you read a wikipedia article or watch a five minute youtube video yet? You'd have learnt more than this non debate we're having.

>>69477588
Thanks, dude! this thread has been fun. I agree with you that there's definitely a difference between art that is subversive and art that's radical. Plus, there are so many different ways for art to be radical. There are tons of artists and writers whose politics I'm sympathetic to-- and i'm very glad their work is out in the world, but they don't share my particular brand of "radicalism." For example, I can't support Amiri Baraka's particular brand of black nationalism but he was a damn great artist and a damn great radical and I'm grateful for what he did.

I haven't seen Barton fink-- actually have never particularly loved the Coens, but this movie sounds interesting, so i'll check it!

I've also never read rorty, which i know is a mistake, so i'll have to get some of his stuff too. but I absolutely agree with you that the act of producing/consuming art should be valuable in itself for combating false consciousness and helping people just be better in general. But it seems like maybe a lot of the way we talk about art and the way art is treated as a commodity can get in the way of this. Taste in art has become so commercialized that discussing art and consuming art can become a huge dickwaving contest rather than a communal experience. Have you read anything about music kissaten in Japan? That always has felt like a very cool way of listening to and learning from music communally. Check this out if you have institutional access (or use scihub to download): http://www.jstor.org/stable/40212442

>>69477791
You got a real chip on your shoulder over nothing.

>>69469401
liberals arent leftists you cuck

>>69473445
I'm curious, what music do you listen to?

>>69477819
Ah, so you didn't decide to learn anything. That's a shame.

13 minutes just to prove he has autism.

It's pop music. Of course it's supposed to be repetitive and shallow.

>Bitch better have my money! Turn up to Rihanna while the whole club fuckin' wasted. Every time I drop, I am the only thing y'all playin'.

You think that's a statement on today's economy and consumerism? No, it's a fucking pop song that you're just supposed to play for fun. It has no purpose. You /mu/ faggots are so fucking insufferable I swear to God. It changed because it's what's hip. Remember the good old days of Britney Spears? It was the same then, but people got bored of that style and they changed it.

DEY TRYNA CORRUPTPT DAH YEWTH IM THE HERO U NEED WATCH MY VEEDOS AND GIMMIE MONEY CHERRY PICK CHERRY PICK STOP HAVING FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

>>69477858
Why are you the way you are?

>>69477885
>Of course it's supposed to be repetitive and shallow.
no it isn't

>>69477836
I know it sounds like bullshit to say this because everybody says this, but I try damn hard to listen to everything. I honestly can't think of any genre/movement that I entirely dislike. Recently, a lot of jazz and a lot of 90s jungle and a bit of dub and I've been trying to learn more about classical music starting with Medieval shit so I've been listening to a lot of Hildegard von Bingen--- but I'm also very into American and British folk music from a lot of different eras, I try to learn as much as I can about music from various Non-western cultures, noise, musique concrete, uh whichever rock genres you can think of that get discussed here, lots of ambient music, 60s and 70s soul, country, krautrock, a bit of prog here and there though I am a bit picky about that, lots of /bleep/ shit, hip-hop, ... I don't know, kind of everything.

>>69469239
this dude is such a retard

>Music has gone to shit!
>TV and Film has gotten better!

>Meanwhile the top 10 highest grossing films of this year are all Capeshit or childrens movies

The brainwashing is real

>>69477807

good points. i think a big reason i enjoy /mu/ is that it provides, sometimes, a forum for some kind of communal engagement w/ music(at least in consumption, but sometimes even production). and more so, because it provides a forum for music that isn't otherwise in the cultural space i inhabit now.

ill check that article, ill check baraka, and ill check those artists i was unfamiliar with above.

some rorty links (not sure he'll be of much use for the already initiated, but he was what made everything click for me:
http://pages.uoregon.edu/koopman/courses_readings/rorty/rorty_CIS_full.pdf
https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/rorty.htm

also: see a serious man if you haven't. their best imo.

cheers.

>>69478091
thanks for the rorty links-- they look very helpful! i'll check out a serious man too.

and yeah, /mu/ is often shit but occasionally very cool and i think that the internet in general can provide some new pathways for democratic community/solidarity/learning that weren't available 30 years ago.