The Great Debate

MMT
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MMT
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good hustle 10/10 lads debate over

Mmt is the only good psych pop album along with Piper. So obviously MMT

>>69419639
i wonder if hippies on acid bought and listened to this thinking it was beatles

>>69419556
MMT by far

>>69419726
Probably not dude, acid doesn't make you totally retarded, plus iirc they couldn't use that cover originally. Also real hippies didn't listen to the beatles.

>>69419556
Mono or Stereo?

>>69419969
Fuck you and fuck this stupid meme

>>69420804
Seriously though. The Stereo for these albums sounds terrible.

>>69419556
Abbey Road

>>69420933
White Album desu

>>69419639
This. Not even Zappa's best album of the 60s but still much better than Sgt. Pepper's.

>>69420881
Why? They sound fine.

>>69421274
I would say Sgt Pepper is better because of the lack of unity and refinement on WOIIFTM.

>>69421346
But Pepper's isn't unified either. It being considered a concept album is the biggest meme of all time.

>>69421294
Martin did the mixes totally independent of the band. They oversaw the mono mixing and it's how they intend the album to be heard. The stereo mixes have a lot of weird, mostly stupid or unnecessary, changes. The changes and how good or bad they are is subjective but it's not how the album is intended to be listened.

>>69421408
>But Pepper's isn't unified either.
If course it is. Why isn't it.
>It being considered a concept album
Not relevant

>>69421408
>Martin did the mixes totally independent of the band
Not relevant
>intended
Not relevant

>>69419556
The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.

>>69421476
Oh what instrument do you play again?

>>69421449
Epic.

>>69421614
?

>>69421489
Not him but the beatles suck. I play drums and percussion and have done so for two decades and about a decade professionally. Wanna fight faggot?

>>69421700
Please Ringo.

>>69421700
So you don't know music theory?

>>69421722
I have a BA in percussion performance. I took 5 years of theory (freshman theory up till 21st century analytical techniques and jazz theory) in college alone and two years in high school and i've been able to read music since the age of 7.
What do you want to talk about?

>>69421755
How then you understand how harmonically complex The beatles are.

>>69421755
>all these accomplishments
>posts on /mu/

What a tool.

>>69421892
He;s probably a drummer in some metal band what do you expect?

>>69421892
I have far greater accomplishments than just going to school. I've been lurking on 4chan for over a decade, so I've been here and keep coming back. What a tool! sad!

>>69421867
What does harmonic complexity have to do with it being good? Fusion is extremely complex harmonically but that does make it inherently good now does it? Same with 21st century art music, using extended techniques every which way to explore timbre within dense harmonic structures that ultimately just sound like noise to the untrained ear, that doesn't inherently make it good.

Harmonic complexity =/= good
Plus a lot of their tunes are just your now standard 4 chord rock and roll songs so...

It's boring music to me, there's maybe 4 or 5 tunes in their catalog I'll listen to but I never go out of my way to listen to the beatles, let alone claim they're the greatest thing to grace the earth.

>>69421943
I've never played in a metal band. I do play in small jazz ensembles, play in multiple blues rock bands, a funk/disco band, a folk band, small percussion ensembles, subbed in orchestras outside of the university, etc etc. Nice projection tho

>>69422040
doesn't make it inherently...*

>>69421867
wtf does the harmonica have to do with the beatles?

>>69422040
Thanks for the blog post, Dick O'Tool.

>>69422073
Cry me a river faggot
>wahh someone is using the post feature on the website wahhh

>>69422083
>wahh someone is using the post feature on the website wahhh

Literally the reason you entered this thread.

>>69422040
>It's boring music to me
So you are saying you don't understand the harmonic complexity.
>>69422040
>Nice projection tho
Hmm I've been playing guitar, bass, keyboards and drums for longer than you've been alive in more bands than you. How is that projecting?

Wow my le faith in /mu/ is restored
MMT is the best

>>69422118
Literally the reason for such websites to exist
holy shit someone is making a comment! wow what a tool! if you don't like it maybe you can go to reddit where you can downvote posts you don't like and you won't have to see it. or maybe you can actually get good at music! sad!

>>69421489
The Beatles sold a lot of records not because they were the greatest musicians but simply because their music was easy to sell to the masses: it had no difficult content, it had no technical innovations, it had no creative depth.

>>69422138
>So you are saying you don't understand the harmonic complexity.
Are you retarded?
>Hmm I've been playing guitar, bass, keyboards and drums for longer than you've been alive in more bands than you. How is that projecting?

Oh okay. You are.
>he's probably just some metal drummer xdd
That's projection, it came from you and your experiences and does not vibe with mine, you imposed this on me when metal was never even brought up in the conversation. that's projection.

That's great man! Where do you play? I play in the central texas area and have been making the rounds in the circuit and have played numerous festivals and featured in conventions like PASIC in 2012 and 2015, TMEA also in 2015 and a few times before that, and am in the works of getting a 7 week summer tour off the ground to promote an album I recorded in seattle a few months ago. sup with you lad?

>>69422306
>Are you retarded?
Are you? You said you studied music theory, yet you don't seem to understand their harmonic complexity. What's the reason?
>>69422306
>Oh okay. You are.
How so?
>That's projection, it came from you and your experiences and does not vibe with mine
I don't think you understand what project is.

>>69422298
>no technical innovations
I can't tell if you're just a retard or trying to get my (you)

>>69422336
>Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

Hmm. really fires some synapses.

I understand you're a little on the slow side of the intelligence spectrum so I'll reiterate my previous point for you.

Harmonic complexity does not make music inherently good. If the beatles were basing tunes off the coltrane matrix, tone rows, z cells, and other theoretical techniques, if the end result is the listener not being engaged with the music, then the music has failed and it's just background noise. Millions of musicians and nonmusicians alike love the beatles, great! they connect with the music on some level, I don't and for you to keep saying "hurrr its cuz u dun understand teory durrr" is the most idiotic reason out of all of them to pick from. I've had formal theory classes for almost a decade. Only a retard would think the beatles is too complex for the likes of someone who has gone through an music institution. surprise! you're a retard!

>>69422374
you should explain the technical innovations to him instead of just following the heard that says there is. explain it in your own words (not others) what innovations the beatles had in music and give context of the time. surely you know enough about the music to express these details, right?

>>69422374
You are a perfect example of the plebeian filth spoiling this board with their sad obession with mediocre dadrock.

Contemporary musicians never spoke highly of the Beatles, and for good reason. They could never figure out why the Beatles' songs should be regarded more highly than their own. They knew that the Beatles were simply lucky to become a folk phenomenon (thanks to "Beatlemania", which had nothing to do with their musical merits). That phenomenon kept alive interest in their (mediocre) musical endeavours to this day.

>>69422455
>Hmm. really fires some synapses.
I don't play in the metal genre at all, so it can't be projection. Nice try though
>Harmonic complexity does not make music inherently good
What does?
>Millions of musicians and nonmusicians alike love the beatles, great! they connect with the music on some level, I don't
So... they don't suck, and you are just wrong?

>>69421489
Newfag detected

>>69422529
Then why did you bring up metal in the first place? Why did you project that image onto me even when I had previously said I'm a trained musician that has formal music education under my belt? What retard does this? Salty ones like yourself I'd imagine.

Wow! different people have different experiences in life and therefore experience art in different ways!? no way!? The merits of music aren't a single homogenized list of criteria decided upon by a grand elder court of musicians to judge all music by?! WHO FUCKING KNEW

Millions of people (musicians and nonmusicians alike) listen to Drake, Lady Gaga, Nickle Back, Avenged Sevenfold, Slipknot, etc.
So.... they don't suck right? because millions of people buy their music, surely all of those people are trained musically at some level and have collectively decided these are the people who do music correctly, right?

Where you fail is in thinking there is right and wrong in music and if you want to pull back even further, art in general.

There's a wrong way to play instruments, until that wrong way is used musically in the context of a piece of music that means something to someone. thats what extended techniques (prepared piano, "honking" sax, quarter tones on strings, etc) are. This idea that music is this one thing and only this one thing and if you disagree then you know nothing about music is fucking retarded.
maybe you should go to school for music and learn something about music so you can formulate your own opinions on the functions of certain types of music and get an idea of what you as a person like and don't like and try to understand you're only you and not everyone follows group think like you do!

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/thread

MMT

>>69419571

>>69422699
What do you mean?
>>69422721
>Then why did you bring up metal in the first place? Why did you project that image onto me even when I had previously said I'm a trained musician that has formal music education under my belt? What retard does this? Salty ones like yourself I'd imagine
So you misspoke
>Wow! [wall of text]
Doesn't look like you answered my questions. Try again?

>>69422487
this desu senpai

>>69422798
Holy shit, I get it you're retarded man but this is just ridiculous. Yes, I, the person accused of
>He;s probably a drummer in some metal band what do you expect?
Misspoke. What ^^^^^^^ is is totally NOT projection. Idiot

>>69422798
I did answer, maybe you should learn to read! Sad!

>>69422833
>>69422487
>Contemporary musicians never spoke highly of the Beatles

You mean like Brian Wilson or Bob Dylan or Karlheinz Stockhausen or Roger McGuinn or John Cale?

>>69422759
This is their worst album.

Rubber Soul defeats all.

>>69422876
>I did answer,
You specifically said why they suck other than
>they're boring lol
You didn't.

Wow you must be a great musical person to be around!

>>69422907
People like Monk, Cannonball Adderly, Oscar Peterson, Tony Williams, Archie Shepp, Clifford Jordan, Cedar Walton...

>>69419639
Man, I do love this album.

Magic Mystery Tour over Sgt. Pepper by the way. I like Sgt. Pepper a lot but there are some songs that are skippable for me, meanwhile I can listen to Magic Mystery Tour all the way thru and love it.

>>69422938
But their music is boring. What part of different people experience music differently can't you comprehend? You seem to think the "harmonic complexity" (lol) of the beatles makes them good and everyone likes them because of it. YOU like the beatles becaue they're "harmonically complex".
I DON'T. I don't vibe with their music, it's frilly pop bullshit that does not interest me or my ear, an ear that is extensively trained and has had more musical experience than you would ever care to know about. They're boring as fuck.

Yeah that's why I get called to play gigs, record albums on the band leaders dime, got into school with scholarships for my musical ability, playing 4 - 6 nights a week. I'm such a terrible musical person to be around! no one wants to play with me!! sad!

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>>69422798
>falling for a meme this hard
>writes multiple paragraph-long discussions as a result
Thats What i fucking mean, newfag

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>>69423102

>>69422162
Calm down

>>69423072
>I'm such a terrible musical person to be around!
Yeah you sound like a faggot.

>>69419781
>acid doesn't make you totally retarded

oh, so hippies were always that way. interesting

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>>69421408
It isn't a concept album. But it's a tightly wound carnival showcasing the various facets of psychedelia of the era.

If you haven't realized by now, possibly the best talent of the Beatles was their ability to bring very different ideas together and make them sound cohesive. They did this with their songs (Happiness is a Warm Gun, Lucy, She's So Heavy) and they did it with their albums (notably Sgt. Pepper, The White Album, Abbey Road)

>>69419556
MMT all the way

>>69419722
agreed that they are the best psych pop albums,
not so much about about it being the only good psych pop albums

>>69422066
Have you listened to Please Please Me?

>>69421449
You are a fucking retard.

It wasn't specified, but MMT the EP or the LP?

>>69425888
How so?

>>69423102
How is this relevant?

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>>69427088
>In 1967, when Brian Wilson first heard the song, he pulled over in his car, broke down in tears and said, ‘They got there first.” Then, later that year, after hearing the Beatles’ next album, Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, he had a nervous breakdown.

>>69426303
Well, is there a Sgt Pepper EP?

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>>69422040
tfw you win argument

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>>69427179
Pet sounds>Piper>MMT>the rest

>>69428404
>moving goalposts
>winning an argument

>>69428512
youre stupid he literally beat you

>>69428659
He didn't. Not only did he shift goalposts, but he hid behind subjectivity when he couldn't explain why he thought something was boring.

Then he made an embarrassing appeal to authority.

>>69428729
you're stupid he literally beat you

>>69428765
>It sucks because I don't like it!
>wow what a great argument

>>69428860
>>It sucks because I don't like it!
>>wow what a great argument

you're stupid he literally beat you

>>69428902
Nah

>>69419722
Strawberry Alarm Clock? The Zombies? Dukes of Stratosphear? King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard? The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band?

Psych Pop is the best Pop in my eyes because it doesn't try to take itself seriously and I can enjoy it without feeling vexed.

>inb4 When I'm Sixty-Four is worst song

I'm just preparing...

For mono: Sgt Pepper
For stereo:MMT

>>69422040
based af