''punk is right wing'' is he right?

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Well he certainly wasn't left

>>69221246
interesting question. I think the answer is "punk is left wing, punks are right wing."

It's very political, but it is more to do with the individual. Johny Rotten couldn't say that he'd never vote conservative. I'm not sure if anarchy is outside of politics in the left right dialogue. To me we are in anarchy and punk's politics are a swerve looking for an angle to kick off of. Ramones always seemed more of a party band

Musicians who claim to be economic-right generally only do so because they're assblasted about royalties or because they heard about libertarianism at a party once and it sounded good. When they claim to be social-right, it's only because it aligns with their self-image of being aloof/elitist/rigid personality-wise.

>>69221365
Anarchism is a real and established political philosophy that has seen wars and revolutions fought for it. Punks may or may actually be anarchists, some only support it for the image, as you say, a "party band".

>>69221554
I've never understood anarchy, "no gods, no leaders" but what if you beleive in gods? It never makes sense. It sounds like law by gun.

>>69221265
BAHAHAHhhhHhHhhahaAHAHAHAHAH

Punk is just about going against the status quo

At this point punk bands should be right wing

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>>69221647

>>69221600
>law by gun
There is no other kind of law.

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>>69221246
it all depends on the group and the bands.

on one hand you have people like jello biafra who is the most liberal person in the world.
and on the other you have people like henry rollins that take a hardline stance against liberals

>>69221702
>implying it isn't

>>69221246
>supporting the status quo
>punk
wew

>>69221703
Interesting point. That's why I hate punk, it's full of glib plattitudes when it should be boozing and fagging and not being bothered

>>69221702

I'm gay and I'm not 'oppressed' or 'marginalized' in the least bit, and I live in the American south. Fuck off back to Tumblr with your victim complex.

>>69221788
>"i don't experience it so others never experience it as well!"
also yes an anonymous post on 4chan totally solidifies that, thank you sir

>>69221725
being called a sexist over the internet isn't oppression

>>69221759
This.

>>69221821
>being called a sexist over the internet isn't oppression
Potentially it could be

>>69221246
Ramones is the shittiest punk band of all time.

>>69221899
kill yourself whore

>>69221947
Screw me till I beg for more

>>69221947
Help, I'm being oppressed!

>>69221956
>>69221961
it's guess it's my fault if she/"he" actually does

I'm such an internalized-oppressor!

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>>69221554
>>69221369
Agreed. Anarchism is attractive to people who are generally anti-authoritarian but just being a punk doesn't ipso facto make you an anarchist. See Crass for more "serious" anarcho-punk. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crass

>>69221647
Are you suggesting that right-wing is against the new status quo of the Trump presidency, the most right wing platform in US history? Even the US liberals in the form of the Democratic Party have been center-right for years. Bernie and Warren are the most left that we have seen in US government and they are barely center-left.

>>69221704
Jello Biafra is an asshole but he's not a liberal.

>>69221703
>>69221600
"Law by gun" would describe the nation-state with the addition that only the state has the "right" to use the gun, also known as a "monopoly on violence". On the other hand, a common thread of anarchist thought is that society should be organized with as little coercion as possible. Some ideas related to this include "free association" of individuals with each other, where you don't have to interact with anyone or give anyone else authority unless you consent to it.

For more reading on Anarchism as a serious political philosophy and not just some vague anti-establishment sentiment see the Anarchist FAQ: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/the-anarchist-faq-editorial-collective-an-anarchist-faq

>>69221788
>fuck off back to tumblr with your victim complex
>person he's replying to was criticizing people with victim complexes

>>69221600
> It sounds like law by gun.
There are right-wing anarchist views you could describe like that, but anarchism is much more complicated. Most left-wing anarchism is kind of similar to socialism and democracy, it's not just "no rules and total chaos"

>>69221998
>Anarchism as a serious political philo
No thanks it's in a post with the word Crass in it.

>>69222054
There's always a vegan

>>69221998
>Even the US liberals in the form of the Democratic Party have been center-right for years

Don't argue with these people. They seriously think that the Democratic party is left-wing. Their argument is that the left-right coordinates have now shifted in a way which makes Democratic party the new left

>>69221246
>New York Jews support right Wing Zionists

No fucking way!

with A baseball bat

>>69221788
this is honestly the lowest effort bait ive seen in a long time

>>69222112
I saw that bloke that didn't get his painting back. He was such a bastard about it.

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>>69222054
>right wing anarchist

>>69222222

>>69222054
>it's not just "no rules and total chaos"
What else then? Dreadlocks for white people?

>>69222054
>right wing anarchist

Anarchism is literally meant to smash capitalism. AnCap Americans are illiterate and fat

>>69221702
>the "i'm a self-hating white collectivist who thinks everyone ive grouped is the same" post

>>69222401
>the "butthurt white guy" post

>>69221702
I approve of this and I don't even like The Flaming Lips that much
>>69222371
For example
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

>>69222401
>who thinks everyone ive grouped is the same

sounds like people who whine about sjws

>>69222378
Anarchy just means statelessness.

What do you think capitalism means, and why do you think a state is needed to enforce it?

>>69223321
To prevent monopolies

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yall a fucking joke. punk is inherently left wing. real punk is DIY, has a non profit ethos, and defies any central authorities even within itself. everything that makes punk punk is rooted in anticapitalist and anarchist thinking (e g the far left)
the ramones and crass are hardly a status quo for punk today, get involved in ur community and u would see this.
right wing "punks" are posers and have always been largely rejected by the culture as a whole

>>69221333
So nobody acknowledges my trips? I know a guy doing 80 years who has an anarchy tattoo on his heart and a swastika tattooed on his dick, and he's more punk than any of you.

The real answer is in the 80s punk gangs became very real. The ensuing racial split between Hispanic and white punk gangs pumped a lot of racism into the "punk scene". It never quite made it into the music though, and by the time pop-punk took over it was too late. "Punk" and all relevant sub-genres took a sharp turn left. These days ultra-left anarcho-liberalism is so much a part of Punk Music that it's like a backdrop, it's just THERE. So what we have today, we have swastika-tattooed skateboarders with meth and guns on one hand, and we have vegan acosustic saw-playering train-kids on the other, and they're both punk.

>>69223423
Monopolies only exist through one of two ways, either the business lobbies for preferential legislation that forces competitors out (which wouldn't exist in a stateless society), or the product is literally so perfect in quality and price that there's no excess money for a competitor to make (in which case what's the problem exactly?)

>>69223470

Crass isn't contemporary but I brought it up as an example of a band that embodied some of punk's stated ideals in that time period, in contrast to bands like the Sex Pistols that were a bit more self-centered and didn't do as much to construct new social relations. I still recognize bands like the Sex Pistols and the Ramones made significant cultural contributions which I value very much, but they don't go far enough into the political is all I'm trying to say.

>>69221759
The status quo has been left for a long time.

>>69221246
No.

>>69223539
>or the product is literally so perfect in quality and price that there's no excess money for a competitor to make

yeah mcdonalds is the best food chain in the world

>>69223321
B a k u n i n

>>69223583
those faggots have been running the world for decades
we need to end the faggots and trannies and feminists and eradicate them from this world. we cannot have a fair and proper society with them around.

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>>69223612
R o t h b a r d

>>69223518

You do have a valid point. I think that these violent authoritarians are borrow stylistic elements of punk but do not live up to the punk ethos. Remember, skinheads were originally a ska subculture until their style got co-opted by neo-nazis.

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>>69223673
Your reddit """philosopher""" is lowbrow

>>69223583
In what world is the status quo based in anti-militarism, anti-statism, anti-capitalism, and social equality? Stop eating the trash from the right-wing media, they don't even get basic facts straight.

>>69223321
Anarchy means "without hierachy" which includes the state, but also economic systems such as capitalism which are inherently hierarchical.

>>69223681
>Remember, skinheads were originally a ska subculture until their style got co-opted by neo-nazis.

This.

People need to remember that dumbasses ruin everything by going retard.

Skinheads were basically hippie dippy folk until a bunch of mongoloid racist trailer park fucks stole that shit and mutated it into something unrecognizable from its original incarnation.

>>69223735
>Leftists
>Not sucking off the state for any little scrap tossed at them

This isn't the 1800s.

>>69223608
You think that there's no preferential legislation keeping McDonalds in power?

And secondly, McDonalds is probably very close to an ideal in term of Quality vs. Price, for the market they're trying to reach. McDonalds doesn't hold a monopoly on all food, in the same way they don't hold a monopoly on shoes, or electronics. Those aren't their markets. Their market is quick, easy, and about as cheap as you can go while still being palatable, and who would argue that they've failed in a way that hurts the consumer?

>>69223735
Literally just type "anarchism" into google, "belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion."

Wikipedia: "Anarchism is a political philosophy that advocates self-governed societies based on voluntary institutions. These are often described as stateless societies,"

Webster: "a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups"

>>69223860
>You think that there's no preferential legislation keeping McDonalds in power?
the "small government anti regulation" types in congress who give taxpayer money to these coporations, sure

that's corporate welfare though, when people promote socialism they're against something like that, since the taxpayer dollars should go to things that actually help people and advance us as people, such as health care, education, science and space funding, food safety regulation, etc

>>69223860
I was referring to "anarchy" not "anarchism", in response to a post that seemed to open the door for ayncrap ideology by trying to say anarchy is simply "statelessness"

>>69223948
Socialism is not to be confused with social democracy. The former is a position on how social relations of production is structured while the latter is a position on state policies (such as the ones you described).

Anarchy is the paradigm of having no state; no solitary ruler or group of rulers.

Anarchism is a leftist, communist ideology that supports the establishment of anarchy.

Anarcho-capitalism also supports anarchy, but can make no claim to "anarchism" as leftists can. Read Bakunin, Kroptkin, Malatesta, et cetera to learn more.

>>69223948
"the "small government anti regulation" types in congress who give taxpayer money to these coporations"
If this is true, then why aren't the obscenely rich funneling money into the libertarian party, since they want the smallest government (of any major party) and are more anti-regulation than the either of the two major parties?

Those regulations the republicans and the dems love so much are simply ways to raise the entry bar into a market. Secondly, " the taxpayer dollars should go to things that actually help people..", why should the government decide how best to spend people's money for them? Decentralization works so well in a market because people tends towards their best interests, and lack of regulation allows a greater diversity for people to choose from.

The whole reason monopolies are bad is because they reduce quality and increase price, by putting that power in the hands of the state, you get the same side effects, except now everyone suffers the cost.

Punk has a cult of penis & is very scared of women, which makes it reactionary no matter what it feels it is.

>>69224216
pardon?

>>69224346
somebody send her rectal hygienics

>>69222817
Yeah, I like playing music. I'm not sure where the sound comes from.

>>69224165
There was this woman, and nobody even knew how she had survived till they came for the property which on discovering it must have taken their minds to bits. I took my guitar to go and see her,

A commentary on how punks can not live up to the ethos:

Bomb The Music Industry - (Shut) Up The Punx!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTDcZo8FsJA

>>69221647
You're an idiot if you think that being right wing is counter-culture immediately after someone with Trump's record is elected president and Britain votes to leave the EU (a vote which showed that peoples right-wing views there were so strong they were happy to fuck the country in order to, supposedly, meet them). The Front National are in serious consideration for being the biggest party in France. Sure seems left wing to me mate.

>>69224242
Punk at its heart is the emotion of teenage boys.

>"FUCK THE GOVERNMENT, ANARCHY!"

>but we still want that free healthcare and huge taxes on the wealthy yanno?

>>69221647
For the bulk of the western world throughout most of its history, the status quo has been some form of right wing.

Only within the last twenty, thirty years has this changed in Europe, and only in some places at some points. The US has been largely right wing throughout its entire history.

The only real place right wing is against the status quo is Scandinavia.

>>69224677
Anarchists =/= Socialists

Both are far left, but one if statist, the other libertarian.

>>69224709
Anarchism by itself is neither left nor right wing.

The bulk of anarchist movements are grounded in leftist politics, however.

>>69224709
I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of that, I've seen people saying that before

>>69224677
you're conflating social democrats with leftist as a whole. Social democracy is the welfare state.

>>69224709
Socialism is an economic system and isn't inherently statist, although Marxist-Leninists are.

>>69222817
I approve of this and I fucking LOVE the Flaming Lips

>>69224617
Yeah, the public are voting for weakness as they have a suprssed desire for it to all go down the pan and have a wine with someone they love

Let them steal it all so they can go hallelujah in the rain

>>69224744
Also it's politically consistent for anarchists to advocate for social welfare programs for pragmatic reasons while still ideologically opposing the state. One such (oversimplified) logic would be something like "if the state exists at the moment it might as well use its immense power and control over resources and labor to serve the people as much as possible, especially the most in need". An anarchist, however, is unlikely to stop at this point, and would go on to say that direct action for social welfare is paramount, which is basically to enact social welfare programs without the state's help. See: Food Not Bombs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_Not_Bombs

Because you can get apples from the motorway sidings

>>69221704
Henry Rollins is a pretty liberal dude.

>>69224617
>leave EU
>right wing
Tell that to Peter Shore.

>>69222318
"National Anarchism". Primitivist shit like Peste Noire. Pretty out there desu lol

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I'm very much on the left but I admit I was thrilled about The Donald's protectionsim and hardline stance against NAFTA and TPP. That is, until I found out my cozy civil service job is in jeopardy.

>>69224413
That's a male who went on tumblr, put lipstick on, and recast themselves as the oppressed lmao

>>69225380
Yeah, he goes a little against neoliberalism by not agreeing that we should H1B all our workers and such. He is still a Republican, so he'll do shit like cut important funding on principle.

>>69223673
>enemy of the state
>spends all his time being paid to be on government and political think tanks
American ""anarchism""

>>69221907
This. I have no idea why they are popular. They are truly terrible

>>69223824
>all leftist are socialist

>>69224165
goldman sachs literally does that though

>>69224346
You're posting in the wrong squat

>>69221246
That's a pretty tough sell, man. I grew up on 80's punk. If there is a right wing message in those albums I fucking missed it

>>69221246
Hitler was the original punk rocker. Punk is about telling PC to go fuck themselves. The alt right is the punkest thing ever. We live in a SJW world. being white straight and proud of it. Respecting cops and going to church every Sunday. That's punk. Hail Victory!

>>69226577
>howdoyoudofellowkids.jpg

>>69226641
Oh look at me! I'm such a rebel, I hate my own race and support Marxism just like my teacher taught me! I want to race mix and do drugs and get aids from fucking dudes cause my Jew teacher says gender is a social construct

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>>69226577
>>69226698

>>69224677
Wealth accumulation and capitalism depend on the existence of the state ie. men with guns who can enforce arbitrary property rights over everything else. Capitalism with no state would actually resemble feudalism with private militias and near absolute corporate power. It's kinda like a state but don't call it that. True freedom is about autonomy self determination democracy, not about the unrestricted dictatorship of property owners.

>>69221788
Probably because gays in the South behave themselves and don't act like the Folsom Fair freaks in San Fran.

>>69223518
>These days ultra-left anarcho-liberalism is so much a part of Punk Music that it's like a backdrop, it's just THERE

That more-or-less seems to describe Christgau's politics from reading his various columns. He seems to believe in a leftist revolution of some kind, but he also dislikes authoritarian socialism.

>>69221702
>dhe "I'm a triggered dumb nigger" post

>>69221647
The left has never been the status quo in the west, specially since the 1960s. Recently, establishment neoliberalism has incorporated some aspects of identity politics, mostly as a tool of social control and a way to sell people stuff. But even that has come to an end. Fascism relies on a constant paranoia and sense of victimization, even when the nazis where in power they still felt like underdogs, the victims of a massive jewish conspiracy

>>69226794
Fascism gets a bad rap. But Fascism isn’t like what you're liberal teachers have told you at school. Contrary to popular belief, Fascism is not about Hate but about Love. I Love my Race, the White Race, and I would prefer it if we weren't genocided by Cultural Marxists through assimilation and mass immigration. Is that too much to ask? I feel we fascists and white nationalists get terribly bullied on here. And I can tell you-- firsthand experience-- that it really does SUCK to get bullied. Leftists are the worst bullies, and that's not Nice, not a Nice thing to do to people. Remember, We are human beings just like you are. we have our own feelings and loved ones. Just try to keep that in mind, OK?

>>69221246
Punk is for teenagers who hate themselves, thus it is left wing.

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>>69222378
anarcho capitalism has given us ancap memes
i don't care if you think the ideology is stupid, this is by far the best meme of recent times

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>>69227291
BASH

>>69221702
Everyone is oppressed and marginalized. there's a hint of protestant piety and downward managing of expectations in privilege discourse. Suddenly its not about changing anything, but about creating a quantifiable ranking of oppressions. It quickly descends into creepy protestant bullshit, with nonwhites are supposed to take on this prefab role in which 'educate' white people and help them atone for their sins, while the world descends further and further into chaos and inmiseration. The truth is, even if you are a middle class straight white guy, under late capitalism, your life is most likely a howling meaningless void of shit. anything resembling 'authentic' culture and 'autentic' human existence has been turned into a consumer product to be sold to you at a premium

"To find out who is in charge of you, take note of what people you aren't allowed to criticize."

-- Voltaire

>>69227793
>The truth is, even if you are a middle class straight white guy, under late capitalism, your life is most likely a howling meaningless void of shit. anything resembling 'authentic' culture and 'autentic' human existence has been turned into a consumer product to be sold to you at a premium

Go to bed, Nietzsche.

>>69227419
i love reading these pics

a libertarian dystopia would be a lot more fun than a communist one

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>>69227793
True, although there are privileges that white cishet males have. Of course, anyone saying that because someone has privileges, they are literally evil and have no problems is a dumbass. Yeah, you won't get shot in a traffic stop (or have many in the first place), but you can still get fucked by capitalism, because it's a slut and fucks everyone.
>>69227858
ye

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As I woke up this morning, I looked at the time on my alarm clock which is set by the Bureau of Weights & Measures. I got up, showered, and heated a breakfast burrito in the microwave. Thanks to the USDA and FDA, I know my food won't make me sick when I eat it. I then greeted my son as he got ready for school. Thanks to our public schools, he will receive a quality education that ensures he becomes a productive member of society. As I got into my car, I reflected on the various safety features that the NHTSA requires motor vehicles to have. The state DOT also erects traffic lights, guard rails, stop signs, and other things to ensure that my driving experience is as safe as possible. Thanks to the local police force, my home is safe from being broken into and robbed while I'm at work.

When I arrived at work, my supervisor handed me my weekly paycheck. Because of federal minimum wage laws, I am guaranteed a livable pay. When I retire, Social Security will provide me with an income to live on. And because of various regulations, I am guaranteed a safe workplace environment.

After coming home in the evening, I went on my computer and browsed www.ronpaul.com, via the Internet which was the product of a government agency called DARPA where I read about how the government is stealing from me and taking away my freedom.

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>>69227858
oh definitely

Johnny Ramone was right wing but he wasn't the sole spokesperson for punk in general.

On the other hand you'd be surprised how many punk musicians voted for Trump.

>>69221647
this tbqh
We need more Anti-SocJus/PC Punk

>>69227898
it's the implications that matter. Much of American style identity politics relies on the assumption that there's something such as the true/essential queer experience or the True 'latino' experience, which can be used as a source of truth and base for politics. But there is no truth, in the end it's just a more sophisticated version of race science, a subtler way to manage and control the people which it was, at least in principle, supposed to liberate.

>>69226570
Count how many punk songs from that era were whining about Ronald Reagan and the Moral Majority.

>>69228276
Everyone hated Ronald Reagan. Bands were named after him because that was the edgiest they could come up with. What's your point?

>>69228034
Such as? Did a search but couldn't find anyone.

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>>69227817
Voltaire never said that. That quote is actually from KEVIN STROM, a literal NAZI and a PAEDOPHILE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Alfred_Strom

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>>69228334
"The '80s were when rock became less and more political. After the Clash faltered, white musicians who considered popularity a good thing left revolution to the Tracy Chapmans and Public Enemys to come. But with a few dismaying exceptions (Neil Young, Paul Westerberg, Joan Jett) and a few predictable ones (Johnny Ramone, John Anderson, Duran Duran), rock-and-rollers had no use for the reactionary chiefs of state pollsters said their demographic supported (pollsters also discovered that clubgoers constituted America's most electorally apathetic subculture). In the U.K. Paul Weller worked to revive Labour, in the U.S. Bruce Springsteen turned union benefactor, and from Amnesty International to the Prince's Trust, charity/cause records/concerts/tours signified varying admixtures of rock resistance and rock responsibility. The socially conscious lyric didn't displace the love song, but politics became a sexy pop topic; by a strange coincidence, rampant reactionaries and responsible liberals united in a censorship drive at around the same time. Dylan was big in Tiananmen Square. Ad hoc groups of democratic socialists (and secret reactionaries, just like in the '60s) sang "Imagine" and "Give Peace a Chance" all over Eastern Europe."

>>69228240
It boils down to the blanket assumption that all people of color and all women and LGBT are one monolithic proletariat united in struggle against fascist corporate white male exploiters.

>>69228334
Just a bunch of dumb idiot kids who probably had nothing against RR or even knew any of his policies, but their parents voted for him so to 14 year olds, anything your parents do must be bad.

>>69221265
:)

>>69221246
punk is thinking for yourself and making your own conclusions

anything else simply isn't punk

>>69228713
In theory it should be, in practice it means "Question authority only when the president has an R next to his name."

>>69223583
You're fucking deluded

>ugh the majority's rights are being taken away!! liberalism is marxism

>>69228583
t. Christgau was and always has been a retard

IDK but a lot of 80s metal guys like Dave Mustaine eventually became huge right wing Christfags.

>>69228745
which is why "Punk is dead" was a thing

as soon as it left the British 70s it already went to shit

not gonna pretend there isn't 10/10 militant punk albums, but in philosophical terms, it simply isn't punk

>>69228816
Metal is the right, punk is the left. Revelations much?

>>69228845
In the Seventies, punk rock represented a grassroots angst against the rubbish economic conditions in Britain at the time. That of course led to Thatcher being elected to straighten out the mess. But then in the Eighties, rock musicians weren't happy and instead just whined about her anyway. Cunts.

>>69228583
I don't know who you are quoting, but if this Christgau had stepped into any punk club in the '80s he would see that they were extremely political.

>>69228894
tatcher didn't exactly straight out the mess

hell he was gasping for air and her rep only got saved because the argies decided to declare war

>>69228665
I'm actually all for seizing the means of production, full automated luxury communism now, etc. There's universal exploitation. capitalism is a really complex and often brutally illogical system that controls every little aspect of our lives. The opposite of freedom. I want to get rid of the system not replace it with another brand of reactionary identity politics

>>69228894
Thatcher was a shit-tier leader and human being, the only reason she got elected was because people were falling for the supply-side economics meme.

>>69229013
Unfortunately, it never works that way and inevitably you end with totalitarianism.

>>69229077
>before: coal miners are renters in Labour-controlled cells
>after: coal miners can purchase their residences and become home owners
How turrible.

>>69229095
>Unfortunately, it never works that way and inevitably you end with totalitarianism.

How do you know how it ends up when it has virtually never been tried?

I remember reading an interview with Abbie Hoffman not all that long before his death and it went (paraphrasing) "Abbie Hoffman doesn't get today's youth (ie. 80s youth). He doesn't understand their music or their lack of interest in political activism. The 47 year old Yippie founder says 'It's sad, but when there's a cause out there to be fought, it's people my age who have to do it.'"

>>69229132
You are about to get memed

>>69229132
We already did try planned socialist economics. It failed spectacularly and got millions of people killed. The survivors meanwhile had to stand in line for hours to buy the only sausage in the grocery store. :^)

>>69229181
But that's not communism nor anarchism like the guy you quoted here talked about: >>69229013

>>69229181
^this. my country is still recovering from that shit. why are the only people who defend socialism the ones who live in countries never "blessed" by this wonderful system.

>>69229234
What he's advocating for is a fantasy that will never happen IRL. We already tried socialism and that never happened. What did happen was Stalin and Pol Pot.

>>69229181
>Go from feudal shithole to spacefaring superpower in 40 years
>WOW WHAT A FAILURE

>>69229155
Is it me or did Abbie Hoffman have no awareness of 80s music beyond flipping through the channels and momentarily catching a Def Leppard video on MTV?

>>69227900
>guaranteed a liveable pay
>Getting social security from a minimum wage job

Nice try

>>69229352
Wait, my country went from a feudal shithole to a superpower in 40 years? last I checked Poland's 1990 GDP was a few hundred USD higher than the 1938 figure while most of Western Europe averaged a couple thousand USD higher.

Yeah, fuck you, commie.

>>69229352
Russia was already a superpower before the 1917 revolution.

>>69229495
"The Soviet Union was built off the back of tsarist imperialism. They did not go through 100 years of national humiliation and occupation by foreign powers as China did."

-- Mao Zedong

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I smell dirty commies

Now lemme tell all you commie fuckers what the worker's paradise is like.

*You have no freedom or right to control your own destiny. The state tells you where you can live and what jobs you can have.
*Consumer goods are poor quality and in short supply--it can take months to purchase a bicycle, TV set, or coffee table.
*Jobs are mostly assigned based on your status as a member of the proletarian class such as "worker" or "peasant", or because you have connections to some party bigshot, and you could be denied a job if a member of your family did something politically unacceptable.
*If you complain about anything, you go to jail or a labor camp.
*Religion is either banned or strictly controlled by the state.
*You need permission to travel outside the country.
*Food is poor quality and limited in supply--markets often only have a few items on sale. People literally get sick and experience malnutrition from the shitty diet.
*There are no free elections and government officials do not have to answer to the public.
*All media, art, and entertainment must conform to the state agenda--this includes glorifying the party or the leader and schlocky propaganda art of muscled factory workers while demonizing whatever ideologies/people/countries the party wants demonized.
*The print and electronic media only report whatever news the state wants you to hear while not mentioning what they don't want you to know.
*There is no independent judiciary and you do not have a right to a fair trial or legal representation.
*Hotels and apartments are bugged, so be careful what you say.
*Some cities are "closed" meaning you cannot visit them without official permission.

>>69229402
From what I can tell, Poles hate communism, East Germans and Yugoslavians miss it and Russians want it back

>>69228857
IDK, Lemmy and Rob Halford always identified as anarchist libertarians.

>>69229637
That's exactly what a dirty commie would say

Guys like Christgau always end up falling for the Marxist fallacy that there's a class of people who can be a permanent proletariat and they ended up consequently building the alternative rock movement into something it never could be.

"Punk" is a hollowed out corpse, a cliche, a cartoon. It's characteristics have become anything but what it's roots stood for or meant.

>>69229723
It always happens as it did in the 1960s. Let us be honest and point out that it was only a very small group of radicals who wanted to overthrow the system. The Stokley Carmichaels and William Ayerses of the world were a minority. As for the vast majority of kids at that time, they just wanted to have fun, do drugs, listen to music, and have sex. The protest movement was really for the entirely practical reason that we had a draft army and a war going on, and Americans have always been uncomfortable with mandatory military service.

By the 70s, once the Vietnam War wound down, so did the protest movement. The mainstream of American society took whatever parts of the 60s it liked (such as the more liberated social climate) and discarded the rest. Most radicals ended up disillusioned and almost suicidal after Reagan and Thatcher came along (Abbie Hoffman literally did end himself, lyl).

>>69229810
>have fun, do drugs, listen to music, and have sex.

What a bunch of evil people. This makes God angry.

>>69223470
>yall a fucking joke. punk is inherently left wing. real punk is DIY, has a non profit ethos, and defies any central authorities even within itself

How ironic because leftism invariably leads to something that's as far removed from anarchy and non-repression as it gets.

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Punk is straight up counterculture and refusal of norms.

MLP fags are more punk than fags with mohawks because mohawks are 100% normal today.

Alt right /pol/ fags are more punk than some left wing liberal in a leather coat because liberalism has norm the norm for eight years now.

Just look at the average person you see on the street and think of the absolute opposite, that's what punk is.

So yes punk is currently right wing

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>>69230535
Yet during all the Clinton and Obanana administrations, one seldom if ever heard punk bands complain about them.

>>69230581
>he thinks Green Day are real punk
Really, now.

Metal and hard rock are generally right wing, punk, folk, and alternative are left wing.

>>69230631
>folk is left wing
>OG punk is left wing

>>69228583
He was really disillusioned that Neil Young endorsed Reagan.

>>69228816
>>69230631
Mustaine, Ted Nugent, Gene Simmons, Joe Perry, James Hetfield, and Mark Farner, are all known conservatives and of course they're all metal/hard rock guys.

>>69228059
that's called Youth Crew

I was at my local punk venue a while back, and there's a food spot next door that regularly delivers to people at the venue, and me and one of the door guys were talking to the dude who owns the food spot, and he was delivering food to some girl (he's a brown guy) and he was giving the food to the wrong girl and then he said 'oh well, all of yall white people look the same to me anyway' and she got real defensive and was like 'IM HALF PUERTO RICAN' and he was like 'WELL THATS WORSE'

>>69228583
>But with a few dismaying exceptions (Neil Young, Paul Westerberg, Joan Jett)

...but Joan Jett is a PETAfag and she endorsed Howard Dean in the 2004 election.

>>69230535
the average person i see on the street is typically a white nationalist so I guess lefties are still punk

>>69230631
That`s kinda stupid generalization. Back in the day Metal was left wing . It was born from working class, black sabbath who where poorfags, iron maiden criticized Tatcher, Rob Halford is gay as fuck, plenty of thrash metal bands also had the some punk vibe and ideology. Master of puppets it is basically an antiwar album. Then there was the right wing censorship movement which all hard rock and heavy metal hated. If anything right now they were past by the left, just like working class people.

>>69230855
>leftists
>actually giving a shit about the working class

Is this 1910? Their idea of the "proletariat" nowadays are the trans and feminazi crowd.

>>69230631
>>69230855
literally most metal outside of mid-90s thrash and black metal has been vehemently left wing.

>>69230902
you've just shown you don't really have any knowledge whatsoever.

>>69230910
>you've just shown you don't really have any knowledge whatsoever.

This past presidential election was a good example. The left consistently shit on working Americans.

>>69230796
where do you live, hungary?

>>69230902
Nigga, you don´t have to go to 1910. Just before the end of cold war and during Reaganism and Tatcherism working class were left wing. And that´s about the time Heavy metal and Hard rock were the most relevant (so we assume we speak about those relevant bands and not modern not that relevant bands). Yes they were left wing. Today PC culture is neoliberalism with identity politics shit disguised as "the left" which i am sure they despise, just as a lot of other economically left people (you know, the REAL left which doesn´t exist in the US since the 80s). Outside the US they still exist plenty of them, all this identity politics shit only exist in a few first world countries. But yeah youll always very vocal real right wing metal musicians like Anselmo and Mustaine.

>>69230989
Anselmo just denounced trump in an interview
Mustaine writes antiwar songs

>>69230989
Mustaine seems like more of a weird conspiracy theorist guy than an actual right winger.

>>69223673
GAYray "unleash le cops" memebarth is not even relevant anymore you redditor

>>69230796
Where the fuck do you live?

Punk may have a comeback. More likely in what Punk means rather than standard rock instrumentation.
Expect harsh electronic music with left-leaning political lyrics in the future.

Any self-respecting artist is almost by definition a fascist.

The big joke at the end of the story is that fascism is the norm because people and their attitudes calcify. To insist upon oneself, itself, or a promulgation/creation is the telos of humanity.

Punk was always a lie. I play in my local scene and I've met a lot of punk folk. The situation is simply that most of the people (not all) I've met are either not intelligent enough to cogently express (or unwilling to publicly) that music-- and most forms of art-- if you care about it requires steadfast belief in a master-slave situation, be that all of you to the presentation or one or more of you to the vision of another.

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>>69231058
>that entire post

>>69231042
He's been on Alex Jones's show in the past, so there's that.

>>69221821
>"I experience it so everyone else must experience it!"

>>69230941
>"if you hate trump and criticize his supporters than you hate the working class stop bullying me!"

>>69230855
Then again, since when is opposing war necessarily a left-wing ideology? I mean, all communist states had huge standing armies and glorified military service.

In fact all the major wars we fought in the 20th century we got into because of liberal Democrat presidents.

>>69227419
>>69227898
>>69227933
I'm fucking dying here

These are classic

There's never been a real leftard that came out of the working class, they're invariably spoiled college babbies who never had any real hardship in their life, eg. the early Bolsheviks were college boys, and none of them were peasants or factory workers.

>>69231111
Alex Jones has been more right in the past year than CNN.
I don't know if that's a case of Jones getting better, or CNN getting shittier.
Probably the latter.

>>69230989
>>69230902
The left divorced itself from the working class in the 1960s which is when they got into feminism and gay rights.

>>69231026
I wouldn't say every metal guy necessarily, of course Kerry King still acts like he's 15 and whines about Christianity.

>>69225288
hitler dubs

>>69231172
Of course that's how it is, you don't learn politics, history and philosophy in a coal mine

>>69231150
Really. I mean, nobody likes war but a nut. That's not a right or left thing.

>>69231172
Lenin basically advocated for a tight, disciplined party elite to guide the sheeple. If you go down to the present day, you have people like Hillary Clinton who are staunch Leninists who belief you're too stupid to manage your own life and an elite vanguard of Marxist lesbians is needed to "guide" you.

>>69230910
>literally most metal outside of mid-90s thrash and black metal has been vehemently left wing.
If this is the case, it also seems oddly illogical that nu males like Christgau would repeatedly condemn metal as reactionary.

>>69231066
This is the music I am working towards making atm.

>>69231216
Right. Marx assumed a grassroots revolution would come from the masses, but it didn't.

>>69231026
>>69230989
I never assumed Phil Anselmo was a rightist guy because he still has a huge bug up his ass about religion while Mustaine is a hardcore Christfag now.

>>69230989
You could say the working class is/was left wing, but then again, working class people tend to be xenophobic/homophobic/nationalistic/religious all of which are completely anti-Tumblr.

>>69231216
>Clinton is a Marxist-leninist lesbian.

You hear it here first, folks.

>>69223518
>80s punk gangs became very real. The ensuing racial split between Hispanic and white punk gangs pumped a lot of racism into the "punk scene".

They're still around. They grew up, got together (after doing time or service), create rackets, thump chests and whine about the softy """train-kids"""

>>69231294
She's probably bi, also the Clintons have an open marriage and Chelsea bears a striking resemblance to Webb Hubbell.

>>69231292

>>69229810
Blue collar folk want the milk but they won't buy the cow with it. Back in the mid-20th century, they were willing to accept some progressive ideas like labor unions and social welfare, but they had no interest in being the fuel for the fire of world revolution, and they weren't willing to accept other leftist ideas like internationalism and atheism.

>>69231344
Right. That's what happened in the 70s. Middle America absorbed whatever parts of the counterculture it liked and threw the rest away. They liked the drugs, sex, and rock-and-roll part, they didn't care about waving Vietcong flags and bombing government buildings.

>>69230855
>Rob Halford is gay as fuck

Halford calls himself an anarchist libertarian and he says he doesn't vote, but putting that aside he says he's a Christian and his faith helped him get through hard times in his life, although I don't consider him a real Christian because he refuses to stop being gay.

>>69231344
>>69231375
I think that's what upset guys like Christgau, they thought rock music would be some vanguard of the revolution but it wasn't and in a few years you ended up with Kiss peddling action figures.

>>69231083
>if you care about it requires steadfast belief in a master-slave situation
Right. The Marxist fallacy that there is a class of people who can be a permanent proletariat.

If you consider leftist identity politics, they maintain that women/LGBT/blacks whatever are an oppressed, downtrodden class held back by straight white Christian males, when this is obviously fallacious because women in first world countries don't endure any real hardship, there's lots of rich black celebrities and athletes, and gays are usually upper middle class urban hipsters.

>>69231083
>The big joke at the end of the story is that fascism is the norm because people and their attitudes calcify

See >>69230855

This is what happened in the Reagan years. As the baby boomers got older and had families, they became increasingly conservative in outlook and spearheaded the Christfag war on heavy metal.

>>69231508
Listen, kid, I hear you talking, I'm registering that it's happening, but what concerns me is that you're not actually saying anything.

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>>69231550
>but what concerns me is that you're not actually saying anything

>>69230855
I don't think Iron Maiden or Slayer had very advanced political beliefs desu. It was more a case of "Fuck you, I'm not going to church, Mom."

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>>69231561
It means he's a SJW and he thinks you're a crank.

>>69231575
Or Pantera for that matter. "Fuckin' Hostile" is kind of saying "Lemme alone, I want to find my own spiritual path I don't need to go to church with my grandma to do that."

>>69231613
Yeah that was very much at the time when the Moral Majority war on metal was happening. It's not a left or right thing, more just generalized Gen Xer angst about how they want to do things their own way and not follow the boomers' path.

>>69231629
That's no different really from the boomers doing same with not wanting to be their parents. Things always go in this cycle of "One generation grows up, becomes the fascist establishment, and their kids say fuck you, we're doing it our way." Until they grow up and become the fascist establishment and repeat process.

Funny 'cos Christgau said at the end of the day, despite being a nu male fedora, he found Bono's Christian pacifism preferable to the secular humanism that was the norm in 80s rock.

Of course smaller government is a generally favored punk ideology, but socially punks are open minded as fuck. In practice most are left wing or just flat out anti-politics.

>>69231742
>Of course smaller government is a generally favored punk ideology, but socially punks are open minded as fuck. In practice most are left wing or just flat out anti-politics.
Which sounds ok in of itself, but at the end of the day falls apart since leftism inevitably leads to totalitarianism, not freedom.

>>69228583
Most rock stars have a very shallow, limited understanding of politics. For example, he mentions artists like Springsteen who complained about Reaganomics and somehow blamed the president for the decline of the Rust Belt when it was the culmination of processes that had been going on for decades and which no one person can be blamed for.

Yes, in the early 80s a lot of steel mills closed and a lot of family farms in the Midwest folded, but the reasons for these are many and complicated and to blame any president, Democrat or Republican for it, is just plain silly and the mark of a painfully uneducated person.

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>>69231784
That's why C&H was a great comic strip. This phenomenon is explained here.

>trying to understand all the facts and nuances of a situation tends to overwhelm most people, so they fall back on a simplified black and white view of it

I doubt Bruce Springsteen knows jack about history or socioeconomic factors, but he is a SJW and so obviously the Rust Belt declined because Reagan pressed a button in the Oval Office that said "Close Down Steel Mills".

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>>69231807

>>69231586
I don't know how I could have been any clearer with what I was doing philologically other than removing the Jimmy Stewart diction.

>>69231807
Steel mills died because they couldn't compete with Japan. Anyone knows that.

>>69231824
And the farm belt?

>>69231807
The beauty of Calvin & Hobbes is that despite the advent of photography and motion picture the highest art of human civilization to date is a fucking syndicated newspaper "comic" strip.

>>69231837
Midwestern farmers had a hard go since the 19th century, that led to the Populist revolts of the 1890s. They were bailed out for a time by high WWII prices and the postwar economic boom, but this began to wind down in the 70s-80s.

The farm crisis of the 80s was a sad story and undercut a lot of Reagan's small government ideology. The truth was that farm subsidies cause more problems than they solve, but the American public's heartstrings were pulled enough that the outcry went out for government bailout of farmers. While the crisis had largely subsided by the time Reagan left office, it ended up continuing the legacy of a wasteful, inefficient farm subsidy system left over from the New Deal era.

>>69223735
>>69228750
ITT: Morons

>>69231924
Not all agricultural goods were subsidized by the government, actually the non-subsidized stuff like meat and soybeans were more profitable. The problem was not only the American public's sympathy for the farm plight, but the fact that in the long run, Reagan couldn't afford the political cost of it. Even though removing subsidies was the sound, free market move, most people weren't willing to endure short term hardship for long term benefits. Support for the GOP in the farm belt started dropping alarmingly, and Reagan had to back off to save his party from losses in Congressional elections.

The object lesson here is that government welfare is like a drug. You need to get off of it to save yourself, but you'll have to endure withdrawal symptoms for a while. Unfortunately, some people can't take the withdrawal symptoms.

>>69231998
>>69231924
On the other hand, Margaret Thatcher's closing of the coal mines. This was a slightly different situation firstly because Thatcher was a good deal more combative than Reagan, but also because unlike American sympathy for farmers, most middle class Brits had a complete loathing of the unions due to the mayhem they caused during the 70s.

"What kind of an idiot gets his political opinions from rock stars? I mean, do you really need a rock star to tell you how to save the rain forest?"

-- Gene Simmons

>>69228583
>by a strange coincidence, rampant reactionaries and responsible liberals united in a censorship drive at around the same time

What did he mean by this?

>>69232193
Basically, he's saying in the 80s there was a big move from both SJWs and Christfag/parent groups against sexism in rock music (watch any Motley Crue or Kiss video and you'll see what I mean).

He's also smugly patting himself on the back as one of those "responsible liberals".

>>69232236
SJWs and Christfags are two sides of the same coin.

>>69227291
>immigration
>genocide
lmao

>>69232297
Responsible immigration, no. Allowing tens of thousands of Syrian rapefugees into your country...uh...

>>69221647
Define "right wing", cuckold.
inb4 thread baleetion

>>69227291
>cultural marxists
What does this term even mean?

>>69232326
Beginning in the 1960s, the New Left abandoned traditional labor-oriented socialism in favor of a new dialetic which had women, gays, and people of color as the proletariat.

Now, by destroying the nuclear family (the backbone of bourgeois society), you can then create the new socialist man.

>>69224686
The mid-20th century was a fluke period when the world flirted with planned socialism. Eventually this went away starting in the 1980s.

As for being counterculture, the Stormfaggotry on 4chan is definitely different from what I remember of posting on 90s Usenet where most people were crazy leftists, unless it was a newsgroup related to military or gun topics which had all the flag waving patriots in them. I mean, the earliest experience I had with posting online was to alt.tv.simpsons when I was like 14-15 and those posters generally were hella liberal, except there'd always be one right wing regular who'd troll everyone. Video game groups were generally quite left-wing as well. Usenet also had atheists who were 1000x more militant and extreme than anything Reddit dreamed up.

>>69232452
>I mean, the earliest experience I had with posting online was to alt.tv.simpsons when I was like 14-15 and those posters generally were hella liberal, except there'd always be one right wing regular who'd troll everyone

Just like the classic Simpsons writing staff.

>bunch of liberal writers and John Swartzwelder, the one /pol/ troll on the staff

>>69231026
http://clrvynt.com/phil-anselmo-interview/

This interview? He really doesn't say anything one way or another except that he wasn't expecting Trump to win.

Also...

>Phil Anselmo being a Stevie Wonder fan

Never in a million years would I have...

>>69231292
Originally the left didn't want to import sandniggers and other scum, it's a somewhat recent invention.
Why would the working class want to lose their jobs to immigrants? Only capitalists benefit from importing cheap workers.

>>69233049

Mmmmm, when you put it that way.

>>69233049

the working class think they're too good to work at the level of jobs that immigrants take in a heartbeat now

for fuck sake they cry about people making more for minimum wage jobs

>>69232452

4chan was pretty liberal during the Bush years

I just think a lot of newfags weren't around during those times, I remember how happy people were during the first Obama election

Crazy how quickly things change in 8 years

>>69232452
>Usenet also had atheists who were 1000x more militant and extreme than anything Reddit dreamed up

I member

>>69233237
Obama at least the first time had a grassroots popularity among people who weren't necessarily liberals, even some (misguided) Republicans voted for him.

>>69233049
>Originally the left didn't want to import sandniggers and other scum, it's a somewhat recent invention

The right in those days didn't want them either.

>>69223321

u need a state to protect property rights. which is why capitalists have a love hate relationship with the state, since a state that is strong enugh to proetct your property is strong enugh to take it away.

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>It's a "4chan tries to have political discussion" episode
Pro tip: you can't judge interest groups by their internet presence. "SJWs" have little to no influence but thank god, you got Trump elected, the most rhetorically and intellectually incompetent president of all time.

Today's capitalism is left-wing and internationalist. It views nations as nothing but a market for goods/source of labor. It supports SJW causes. Whatever else you might say about the robber barons of the 19th-early 20th century, they were at least nationalists and social conservatives who supported protectionism.

The SJW is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, degenerate, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a SJW and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”

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>>69233629
>Today's capitalism is left-wing
It's called neo-liberalism you moron and it's the furthest thing from left-wing because it actually removes financial security laws according to Friedman's theory. Are you fascists getting completely retarded? Left-wing is pro social security and pro working class, you idiots call the establishment which is centralist left-wing to push your idiotic revisionist agenda. Educate yourself first

>>69233642
If you call someone an SJW, they will just realize that you come from r/TheDonald and stop talking to you.

>>69231575
I think Slayer were fairly right wing

>>69233661
>Left-wing is pro social security and pro working class
Maybe in 1910 it was. Not the left of today which is mostly concerned with forcing you to eat gay wedding cake.

>>69233685
Yeh but Kerry King still acts like a butthurt 15 year old edgy atheist.

>>69221702
it's funny how leftists boil all power down to oppressor/oppressed so they can only view politics through that lens
I can oppose anti-white rhetoric without complaining about 'muh oppression'

>>69233689
either 12 or 90.

>>69233689
you're completely confusing political leanings and zeitgeist and the narcisstic "everyone gets a trophy"-mentality birthed the faggots from /pol/ just the same. It's the same babies crying about life not giving them recognition and money for free because they're weird/gay/colored/ugly/fat/stupid/autistic.

>>69233689
All the battles that the progressives of the early 20th century fought for had essentially been won by the 1960s. Since they ran out of labor and social welfare causes, they instead turned to silly stuff like LGBT rights and dude weed man.

>>69233609
>but thank god, you got Trump elected

You really overestimate that.

>>69233715
Never since the Thatcher era has ever been ANYTHING won by the left. The poor are getting fucked over and over again and people think that going even further right economically will fix this.

>>69233706
>it's funny how leftists boil all power down to oppressor/oppressed so they can only view politics through that lens

Right...because leftists have a collectivist view of the world, they simplify entire groups of people into one imagined proletariat/exploiter class.

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IMO, Christians are the real punx

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>>69233742
>Never since the Thatcher era has ever been ANYTHING won by the left
But man, they sure tried these past 8 years.

>>69228398
Michael Graves and Christine (Or Exene if you like) Cervenka.

Michael Graves is an outspoken conservative Republican and Exene bought into the whole birther "Sandyhook was a conspiracy to take away our guns and freedoms" and build a wall bullshit. There are a few more but they don't come to mind. These are but two examples that immediately come to mind though.

>>69233774
Gay Rights are a Conservative thing now because it makes them appear less bigoted and most openly gay couples make some decent money. Obama literallly just got through with medical care and Republicans compared it to the Holocaust. At least, Obama was an intellectual and could hold his own in a discussion about politics and arts. Trump is just clueless, I have a hard time imagining how the right can defend him if they're not ideologically bankrupt.

>>69233774
And all the pot legalization initiatives. And all the attempts by Obama at starting a race war. For all that however, it's massively backfired on the left as 2016 has demonstrated.

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>>69221246
Left wing
Right wing

YOU CAN STUFF THE LOT!

>>69233805
>>69228034
I can guess there's probably a fair number of right-leaning punk musicians out there, but you obviously don't hear from them, only the SJW fruitcakes like Green Day and Henry Rollins.

>>69230703
Mike Love is a Republican.

>>69233869
Sonic Youth are also ultra leftards.

>>69233869
Hollywood is also known for its conservative underground, though of course we know some obvious Republicans there like Bruce Willis and Clint Eastwood.

>Leftards
>Republicunts
>Whomever are the cucks n weebs
Can't we get along

>>69233869
Easy way to tell: If an artist/band appears on the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine, they're probably Tumblrites.

>>69233889
Poor Brian probably doesn't even know who's president now. :(

Why are lefty memes so shit?

>>69233903
Yeah...if you were a punk/alternative artist from NYC, chances are you weren't a gun toting Ted Nugent core Republican.

>>69233742
Socialism had its day in the mid-20th century. It was an unsustainable idea in the long run which is why it died out.

>>69229402

GDP doesn't mean a better or worse economy. You can have a shitty GDP, and have free healthcare, education, cheap food goods.
To have an idea of good an economy is you can compare the GDP with the Consumer price index, for instance.
But Economics is complex as fuck, and it's analysis is even more complex.

>>69233945
Usually most Hollywood folk who are known Republicans are guys like CE or Bruce Willis or Chuck Norris who played tough ass-kicking characters on screen. Then you have nu males like Brad Pitt and Alec Baldwin who...yeah.

>>69234088
>free

>>69234134
Charities exist

>>69231216

Boi, the Russian society at the time was illiterate as hell so i said that a vanguard working party should educate the masses towards Marxism. Nowadays i belive, that in a developed country there shouldn't be that need to educate the masses, because of the literacy level of the people.

>unironically being a left wing nigger
LUL

>>69224346
4/10

>>69225380
>>69226794
cuckold

>>69230855
nice try cuckold 5/10

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>>69234273

>>69222108
>Their coordinates have now shifted in a way which makes the democratic party the new left.

Boy, isn't that awfully convinient for right wingers.

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>>69227291
Yur gonna git antifa'd one of these days bucko

And that'll be a good day.

>>69232326

It's a conspiracy theory made popular by Pat Buchanan of all people.

>>69233821
>If they're not ideologically bankrupt

Come on, bub, who ya kiddin'

>>69230770
kek us Latins all hate the puerto ricans

>>69231066
so far its Awful, but people are eating it up. look up Moor Mother, its like a watered down industrial hip hop backtrack with shitty "rapping" thats just ramblings about slavery. She sold out her merch on a US tour 13/20 shows in

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>>69230770
>'WELL THATS WORSE'

>>69234394
I dunno, I met an antifa guy once and he was a great bloke but I think the struggle was more his own problem the politics caconed him inside. Politics has that affect it can take a person's life away

>>69221704
>on one hand you have people like jello biafra who is the most liberal person in the world.
Jello's a different kind of liberal. Basically alt-left.
A big part of the Dead Kennedys was shitting on both the right and left wing. Jello is more of a working class anti-establishment liberal.

>>69230581
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Daqa94tM_c

/pol/tards, trumpets, alt-righters get the fuck out of /mu/

leftists never ever start unnecessary political discussions here, it's always you crybabies

>>69233219
No, they haven't passed citizenship yet so don't know how to blag the council straight away. Working classes know the price of beer

Punk has nothing to do with class, it's a reclaimed derogatory word as far as I know , anyway the pre-virgin pub rock wave was >

punk is counterculture. It can be both or neither.

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>>69239161
This. With how much people are losing their shit and freaking out about politics with this election, the punk mindset would be "fuck this, this is stupid, everyone just mind your own shit"