/classical/

Thoughts on Philip Glass?

>Mozart was perhaps the most ambitious composer in the history of music. He produced at least one, and generally several imposing masterpieces in almost every genre of music— concerto, song, opera (serious and comic, German and Italian), string trio, string quartet, string quintet, quintet for piano and winds, trio and quartet for piano and strings, quintet for wind instrument and strings, divertimento for wind octet, double concerto for violin and viola, symphony,piano sonata, violin sonata. Although he left no completed major work of religious music, his two fragments—the C Minor Mass and the requiem— are monumental even in their unfinished state.in comparison, Haydn’s major successes were largely restricted to the two genres of symphony and string quartet; only when he was much older than Mozart ever became did he create his most impressive piano sonatas, piano trios, and the important vocal works with the late masses and the two oratorios. And only after Mozart’s Prague symphony had surpassed in size and weight any of Haydn’s orchestral works, setting an example, did he expand his symphonic style.
>Mozart enlarged the forms of his time by combining genres. The finale of his Piano Sonata in B-flat, K. 333, is a large concerto movement, with imitations ofthe contrast of orchestra and soloist, and a huge cadenza like an improvisation. He introduced operatic effects in his chamber music, and symphonic and concerto passages into his opera arias. His concertos have moments of intimate and complex chamber music. The finale of the Jupiter symphony has an unprecedented display of learned counterpoint, simultaneously combining six themes. He magnified almost every genre in which he worked.
Mozart is underrated.

>>69206051
shit

Reincken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEZXLbfl_QE

Also Bach was a fan of him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwwCWeRjZak

>>69206071
>Mozart is underrated

Patently false. Stop memeing this horseshit.

>>69206085
thoughts on ravel?

>>69206095
>Patently false.
Mozart constantly goes over the heads of plebs, just look at the last thread.

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>>69206128
God

>>69205996
>Koopman
>Buxtehude
I am approving of this

>>69206071
his fugues are pretty weak though

>>69205996
Is that Dungeon Synth?

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>>69206128
Good

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>>69206216
Saving this rare Ravel

>>69206181
>his fugues are pretty weak though
"no"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCXATs66jJA

>>69206297
>""
exactly. you agree with me. your piece proves it.

What does /classical/ think of the tone clock system?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvh4Vho6h5w

Compare Mozart's best fugue to Bach's worst (if such a thing can even exist). Mozart is still outclassed.

>>69206407
>your piece proves it.
How?

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>>69206451
>Bach worst fugue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuExeLln2lE

bach was a fat loser

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>>69206685
so you both have something in common then

>>69206756
That image really makes me think

>>69206756
>Chinese students

You mean memorization for cheating and general lack of creativity?

>>69206756
hahahaha dude americans are dumb lol :)

>>69206462
vomit inducing close harmonies, poor voice independence. Just generally sounds unpleasant.
The recording you chose is of very poor quality too, just as a side note.

Who's the go to classical guitar composer? Looking to learn some classical guitar pieces

>>69207629
>shitting on feinberg
Literally and unironically participate in the action of suicide

>>69207661
Villa-Lobos

>>69207690
well in terms of sound quality, he's right. that recording sounds like dokey.

>>69207661
Rodrigo, Tarrega

>>69207690
his playing is sloppy and his dynamics are schizophrenic. I wouldn't mind the shitty quality if he was playing well.
>Literally unironically
these are the words of some internet autist with shitty taste in pianists

>>69207661
Agustin Barrios

>>69207805
his sense of dynamics is actually great. i wouldn't really say that it's schizophrenic as much as it is idiomatic in its emphasis/de-emphasis from bar-to-bar. it's far removed from the hopelessly sterile and flat dynamics of many pianists today.

the real snitch, though, is Feinberg's sense of rhythm, i think. it's positively dance-like. it's a common feature in many of his recordings.

there are a few mistakes, sure, but that's to be expected from older recordings, many of which were basically live and/or had extremely limited re-takes.

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>>69207629
>people still believe that Mozart's fugues were derivative of Bach, when in fact Mozart likely abandoned countless attempts because they didn't seem original enough
While this fugue is easily on par with the WTC's fugues in terms of motivic economy and exploitation of "learned" contrapuntal techniques, its harmonic and rhythmic idiom is completely unlike that of JS Bach: The accented diatonic dissonances that decorate the countersubject (which is a decorated version of the main subject), which are exaggerated into abrupt chromaticism in bar 9, halving the basic pulse and phrase structure - a sudden contrast that is has no equal in Bach's WTC fugues (only Contrapunctus 11 comes to mind). Throughout augmentation and diminution are used to modulate pulse and phrase structure first and foremost, i.e. using an old device to introduce the flexibility of the classical style into the genre of the fugue.

I wish Mozart had lived long enough to enter the romantic period.

>>69208106
>While this fugue is easily on par with the WTC's fugues in terms of motivic economy and exploitation of "learned" contrapuntal techniques, its harmonic and rhythmic idiom is completely unlike that of JS Bach: The accented diatonic dissonances that decorate the countersubject (which is a decorated version of the main subject), which are exaggerated into abrupt chromaticism in bar 9, halving the basic pulse and phrase structure - a sudden contrast that is has no equal in Bach's WTC fugues (only Contrapunctus 11 comes to mind). Throughout augmentation and diminution are used to modulate pulse and phrase structure first and foremost, i.e. using an old device to introduce the flexibility of the classical style into the genre of the fugue.
none of this is true mozart is gay and he sucks lol

>>69208120
that'd be like kurt kobain living through the 2000's it wouldn't be the same and it wouldn't work.

>>69208139
Mozart was more talented than Kurt though.

>>69208139
>mozart haters need to use memerock similes

>>69207629
>The recording you chose is of very poor quality too
Opinion discarded. Feinberg is based.

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What do you guys think of this thing i wrote?

https://musescore.com/user/10418341/scores/2956726

I know it's a bit bad and convoluted, Im working on it. Also for some reason it won't export playing at the correct BPM, so it's going to be a bit fast.

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>>69208139
No way. Mozart could've easily kept producing for another 30 years. I wonder what it could've been like if he was alive during that time.

>>69208195
harpsichord wank with terrible, downright offensive sheet music

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Who here /Yurima/?

>>69208195
I like it
Weird how fake harpsichord is easier on the ear than real harpsichord

>>69208226

The sheet music sucks complete ass lol. I just wrote it on the piano scroll in an hour or two and brought it over to the program.

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I love Liszt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3ePWdk3nE

>>69208346
get out some manuscript paper and write your music onto that. helps train your inner ear to audiate whats in your head

>>69208252

Is Yiruma meme-tier? I only heard of him because he was on the Twilight soundtrack.

>>69208419
>I only heard of him because he was on the Twilight soundtrack.

I don't know what is sadder, the fact that he did some work for Twilight and I didn't know, or that's the only way you know this man.

>>69208389
I want someone to orchestrate Via Crucis. Such a great composition but I can't help but feel it would be better with a orchestra behind it, rather than a piano or organ

>>69208186
the recording quality is awful. nothing to do with the pianist. Piano was never supposed to sound like that.

>>69208106
I never compared Mozart to Bach friend. Just said that Mozarts fugues aren't that good. Even Froberger wrote better fugues.

>>69208963
>the recording quality is awful. nothing to do with the pianist.
You need to practice selective listening.
And I'm sure the anon who copy-pasted SDF did it to show of how unique the fugue is, it's a great fugue.

>>69208963
ye, it sounds like shit

thought to its credit it actually isn't nearly as bad as some other Russian recordings made around that period

jesus fucking christ, Yudina's live Bach. dear god

Another notable Mozart fugue is the one in the final of the Jupiter symphony, notable at least for its novelty.

>>69209228
only for its novelty*

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Listen to Schubert
Do it.

>>69209092
>>69209211
>listening to shit quality recordings
>listening to recordings at all
go see things live more often. Its the correct way to experience classical.
If you have to listen to a recording. make it a good quality one. Or you could use your "Selective Listening" to listen to computer generated performances with casio synth and loud shouting in the background. By all means, knock yourself out.

>>69209228
Mozart is all novelty really. Very little serious music.

>>69209567
Hi Poly

>>69209567
>serious music

*tips fedora*

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>>69209567
>go see things live more often
I do when the chance comes around. Spoiler alert: your local orchestra doesn't play everything you'd want to hear.
>If you have to listen to a recording. make it a good quality one.
Why? That Feinberg has a wonderful performance, and tons of old less-than-great sounding recordings have some fantastic performances under the static.
>Mozart is all novelty really
This is what plebeians actually believe.

mozart is poopy poopy doo doo hahahaha

Time to post old-meme recordings of Mozart to upset poly and other plebs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUL7GuUFfg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02n-QTy3vb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpKULQ-ed7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoeWWMukkXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04ueRPrTb7Y

mozart is the black eyed peas of classical music

>>69209806
perfect timing! I'm about to go to bed so these should help a bunch, thanks

>>69209815
>Mozart is black
ftfy

MOZART SUX HE WROTE ABOUT POOP LOL HE WAS GAY TOO

>>69209900
don't forget that he wanted to fuck his sister

>>69209645
>listening to recordings
>not silently reading through the score

Its like you want to ruin his music

>>69209959
>not turning the sheet music into a fine paste and injecting it in your bloodstream.

>>69209959
>silently reading through the score
yeah, that's probably the only way that his music can be enjoyed

>>69210031
>not eating it, pooping it out, and then eating the poop
Come on man it's like you don't even want to be one with Mozart

>>69209946
wtf i love mozart now

guys have i told u mozart sux yet

>>69210059
>not just having a Mozart tulpa
Anon, please, stop embarrassing yourself.

>>69210100
Oh god, is that that thing where you forcibly give yourself multiple-personality-disorder via self-inflicted mindbreak?

What's some music to listen to while working up the courage to take your own life?

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>dude, farts! lmao

>>69210287
Bach partitas and sonatas for solo violin.

Rip in peace anon

>>69210287
Schütz - Musikalische Exequien (Funeral Music)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMdCTYF4ifQ

>>69210588
https://youtu.be/e3aXpQ09JMQ

>>69210326
>DUDE ECONOMY OF MATERIAL LMAO
>DUDE UNDERRATED LMAO
>DUDE CONCERTOS LMAO
>DUDE EFFEMINATE FAGGOT LMAO
>DUDE BOIPUSSY LMAO
>DUDE DADDY ISSUES LMAO

I'd still would tho tbhfam

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>>69210287
https://youtu.be/YjzAi9f9PM0

>>69210352
>how do make sad?
>play batch chacon
>how do make kill self??
>play batch chacon twice xDdxDD

>>69212403
I find the partitas and sonatas are full of hope and beauty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjwBLGjEiFY

>>69208139

>Mozart's last piece of music is one of the most celebrated pieces of music ever
>nah, he was totally going to suck

I've played piano since I was 4, I'm 18 now and I don't know it I should treat it as a hobby.
At the moment I'm good enough to enroll in the best piano course in the best conservatory of my country.

Would that be enough? My greatest fear is to have to resort to retail jobs in my 40s.

Are currently piano lessons, compositions and gigs enough to eat on a daily basis?

>>69213055
Reminder that Mozart's best work was composed only when he was dying

>>69213055
>its largely unfinished
dropped

Franz Xaver Süssmayr is underrated.

In contemporary music you have a ton artists who had a few good albums and then went to shit. It is basically unheard of somebody making good stuff for 20 years, or even a decade.

Are there any examples of the same thing happening to classical composers? If not, why not?

Lads, how do I get into Mozart without becoming one of the "Mozart for your mind" cunts? I listen to a lot of Bach, Haydn, Zelenka etc. I just want some good Mozart that isn't a meme.

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>>69213947
All mozart is a meme

>>69213947

Play piano.
You will quickly notice that you're mistaking harmonic and melodic perfection with bland formalism.

>>69214114
How can perfection be perfect and still be mistaken with bland formalism?

checkmate atheists

>>69214206

Because when you listen to it it sounds so ''obvious'', but as soon as you actually care about the notes that are being played you'll notice that there is nothing obvious and easy in Mozart's music.

It's just that good.

>>69214231
So it's only good when you look at the score from a technical standpoint i. e. the definition of bland formalism

>>69214306

Bland formalism means that Mozart composed using formulae and strict conventions.
He didn't. Literally no one composed like Mozart.

It was a completely original effort that became synonim with catchiness and beauty.

Lokking at the scores will make it obvious. If you're against that just listen to what Mozart was playing and what his contemporariesand predecessors were playing.
You will quickly find out that there is nothing like Mozart.

>>69214590
Mozart is a bad composer who died too late rather than too early

>>69214655

Not an argument.

Can anyone recommend some good organ music?

>>69214655
t. Gould

What piece do you think of when you hear the word "powerful"? Maybe you think I'm a pleb but the first that leaps to mind is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmq1cpcglQ

>>69215194
Siegfried's funeral march

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Would a true genius need 25 tries before he makes a good symphony? Checkmate Mozautists.

>>69215194
3rd movement of Liszt's Faust Symphony

t. Satan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjeL9hKOhcE

Apart some nerves at the beginning, this is absolutely amazing. It's on a different level compared to the old Skrowaczewski Bruckner 8 (which was itself very good).

>>69215194
Dies Irae, idk try berlioz or liszt's totentanz

Thoughts on Chopin?

>>69207661
FUCK CLASSICAL GUITAR

>>69209806
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4sPvEi2n6g

>>69213831
Carl Orff is a one hit wonder. Copland and Stravinsky became irrelevant after they started doing serialism. If you hate tone rows then Schoenberg has Verklarte Nacht as his only famous piece.

>>69214831
Maybe read the fucking thread for once retard

>>69217365
>Schoenberg has Verklarte Nacht as his only famous piece.
>forgetting Gurre-Lieder

>>69205996
You're a faggot.

>>69206071
Stop trying to be an individual, get off your edge cunt.

>>69206128
YES.

>>69206176
Keep posting. Need more actual music.>>69206297
Stop taking the 4/4 Beat into account.

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>>69218042
Cry more, pleb.

>>69213070

No one?

>>69205996
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hmrl7JLrfU&list=LLV1FMcdmOEPVhOybhgcgIIQ&index=5

One of America's greatest composers coming through.

>>69213070
Depends what country you live in. If you're somewhere with ridiculous tuition fees like UK or USA don't even think about it, but if you're in Northern Europe or somewhere else where it's free then definitely

>>69218364
>Americans think Babbitt and Carter are elite composers
They're embarrassing copycats with nothing original to say. GOAT American composer is Ives.

>>69218391

Tuitions are almost free in my country.
I can enroll in both the piano, music theory and composition degrees with less than 500EUR/year.

>>69218431
Then absolutely do it. Sadly here in the UK its £10k per year which is horrible. I've got offers from several music colleges here, but I'm holding out for an offer from Denmark where it's free for EU students.

Bottom line is do what you love before it's too late

>>69218412
>>69218412
>this is what Ives plebs actually believe

>>69218536
Ives was original and influenced countless composers throughout history to the present day.

Carter is just a shit Boulez tribute act without the interesting bits

>>69218558
>Carter is just a shit Boulez tribute act without the interesting bits
Clearly you don't understand either if you believe this.

>>69215345
Don't forget Hagen's call to the vassals. Gotterdamerung is cash

>>69215194

Die Meistersinger Prelude is a synonim to glory in my book

>>69218558
pleb

>>69218412
>>69218488
>>69218536
>>69218558
Do not listen to people who divide themselves into camps

If your Ives fan you are a Carter fan as well

They are tied for first in GOAT Americans, with Carter edging out for pure craftsmanship

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>>69219495

>>69219921
Ives wins in orchestral competition

I've yet to find a Carter Orchestra piece as bad ass as Central Park in the Dark or as moving as The Unanswered Question

also Upload pls? Could never find that on SLSK or RT

>>69219970
>not buying all of your classical

For shame.

>>69220138
Don't have the finances right now

I do have the Jeremiah Lamenations by Lassus and Levi interpretation of the ROS

Sang for about 6 hours today I reckon.

>>69206051
Metamorphosis was meh at first but kinda pretentious

>>69220138
>giving money to the yellow jew label

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>>69220264
rip your voice

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Post music for that feel when the sleeping pills you downed with vodka takes effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAJo9JvDWug

>>69220299
Vocal cords of steel desu. But yeah, might only practice for a couple of hours tomorrow.

>>69220383
How many sleeping pills?

>>69220440
>How many sleeping pills?
An entire bott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPtMrCjFFCs

Just thought I might post some Sorabji.

>>69220473
Sounds like a bad time all things considered

y

>>69207661
Fernando Sor

>>69208195
pretty cool ryan

Obrecht's 4+6 voice settings of Salve Regina are pretty spectacular (6 more than the 4, but I still like the 4 anyway)

>>69220138
>not being a classical musician
>not being too poor to buy music consistently

>tfw no crumhorn playing Italian to play music with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFePC4vBWh0

>Browsing through Gombert's list of works
>Nestled amongst the 4-6 voice stuff, stumble across Regina Coeli
>SSSAATTTBBBB

Where did that come from

Why is the Appassionata Sonata 3rd movement so repetitive?
It's just the same piece of music played 4 times (with extremely minor variations the last 2 times), then 30 seconds of new music and then again that same piece of music speeded up.

What's the point in doing this?

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Can anyone recommend me some good organ music?

>>69222769
Bach, and More Frogs

>>69222769
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR3Rt2z-dyU

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>>69222769

>>69206051
possibly the worst meme composer alive

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What are /classical/'s favorite piano pieces?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3vQ3FdJ5YI

>>69223416

You've mispelled John Cage.

>>69223597

What's the best Bach cantata?

>>69218364
that may very well be true but it sure as fuck doesn't redound positively on America's cultural reputation

>>69223597
Is John Cage not dead?

>>69223597
If you want to be precise Nyman is far worse than any of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1nuFRG4yzk

>>69223597
>alive

>>69224021
Thanks for posting this. I remembered seeing this a long time ago here but couldn't find it later on when I wanted a laugh.

The Piano's OST with the ripped off folk melodies is listenable at least. I'd rather listen to that than Cage or Glass.

>tfw slowly becoming HIP

So.....How 'bout that Mozart?

>>69224568
Glad he's dead.

>>69223549
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSn3qr7vEfQ

>>69223683
BWV 4, 51, 56, 78, 82, 137, 140, 170, 209

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>>69222769

>>69223416
>tfw better than glass

>>69206051
A lot of his stuff sounds the same. His film scores are cheap as far as serious music.

I do enjoy his piano works a bit as well as Glassworks and Music in Twelve Parts.

>>69225483
fuck that noise
einstein on the beach

>>69223683
BWV 12 objectively

Anyone that says otherwise hasn't heard it

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NEW POLL http://www.strawpoll.me/11712799

NEW POLL http://www.strawpoll.me/11712799

NEW POLL http://www.strawpoll.me/11712799

>>69225516
Tedious

Where do you guys download your cds from?

>>69226822
>download your cds

Is this guy serious?

>>69226822
rutracker. read the fucking sticky faggot

Can i trust you guys to keep this thread from dying?

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>>69227605
Why delay the inevitable?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEPiqK-jqTc

[Proceeds to shitpost about Mozart (underrated)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anOHvauXQXU

>>69228744
>can't even use greentext

What fresh hell

>>69225645
Mozart BTFO once again. Beautiful.

>>69229219
>there are more people without taste than with it
What a shock.

>>69225341
Would you by any chance mind sharing this?

>>69229219
>Mozart loses to the best muscian ever
>ahaha guys he sucks!

I hate you guys

Opinions on CPE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tzLguU_2Dg

>>69229308
its on rutracker you dunce

>>69229253
>people dont like what I like, therefor they have bad taste.

From our point of view, you have bad taste. Its time to accept your were wrong about Mozart.

Bach's music is much more tasteful than Mozart's, and with 100% less ADHD and scat jokes

>>69222963
Bach, played on either a historical (pre-1800) German, Alsatian, or Dutch instrument or a Brombaugh, Fritts, or post-1980 Flentrop

Couperin's two masses are fantastic, especially Michel Chapuis' interpretation at St. Maximin. For French classical literature in general you want to look for an organ built by Andreas Silbermann, Formentelli, Dom Bedos, or Clicquot.

Early English Organ Music vols. 1 and 2 are good, especially the stuff from The Dancing Master.

Look for anything played on the Frederiksborg Compenius, which is a unique-sounding instrument.

If you want to get into later French romantic and French modern stuff, pick up Widor's 6th played by Daniel Roth, the complete works of Alain, pretty much any Vierne (I'm particularly fond of the recordings made by David Briggs at St. George's Hall). Langlais' Suite Medievale is fantastic, and Messiaen almost goes without saying. You should be looking for organs built by Cavaille-Coll for French romantic music, especially the one at Saint-Sulpice and the vastly underappreciated instrument at Sacre-Coeur.

The inaugural recital of Fisk Op. 100 at the Meyerson Center by David Higgs is a great general overview on a significant contemporary instrument. I really recommend the Great European Organs series, as they play appropriate repertoire on historically-important (mostly) instruments.

I build organs for a living so I have lots of opinions on this and using the "correct" instrument for recordings.

>>69231356
Shit, meant to reply to >>69222769

>>69231356
Organ autism is something /classical/ has needed for a long time and organ builders are the cream of the crop for that sort of thing.

What are you working on at the moment?

>wake up, check thread, 1 reply
>>69217449
read thread
>>69222769

well okay then

What should I listen to as pump up shit while I get my life together?

>>69232420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4iKuNQNjUQ

Good mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2uYb6bMKyI

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>>69223549
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnKFIp7CahY

What are some pros and cons of live operas vs. recorded productions?

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debussy gets de pussy

wertyuiop[

What amount of music theory do I need so I can get the full experience of listening, or it doesn't matter?

>>69236876

No amount of music theory is enough, there is always something to learn.

That said, any conservatory music theory Bs and Ms degree will give you enough informations. Alternatively 8 to 9 years of intensive piano studying will give you all the informations that you need to understand everyone, from Bach to Schoenberg.

Why isn't Schubert as famous as Mozart and Beethoven?

>lived in the same timeframe
>pure musical genius
>have written numerous masterpieces
>died young

Everything checks in. He should be a classical music superstar.

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>>69223549
>nuharpsichord

>>69223549

>not his fugue in D minor

Without any doubt my favourite piano piece written by Shostakovich (piano concertos included)

>>69232038
I'm not working on anything at the moment - we have a small instrument we've started on at the shop, but we just finished installing an instrument about five hours south of the shop. Work on new organs tends to slow down around Christmas, as we take care of a lot of organs around the local area and everybody wants their instruments to be in tune for Christmas.

I got bored a while ago and designed an instrument as a thought exercise, as figuring out how to fit organs into spaces where they'll both sound good and be appropriate for the services and repertoire is a very important skill that requires constant study and practice.

>>69205996
Bottlehead something and HD800? damn boy.

>>69237624

*B Minor

>>69237458
:((((((((((((((((((((((((99

>>69237486
He didn't meme hard enough

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>shitstakovitch
>fuckner
>Mahluh

>>69237923
Shostakovich was one of the best composers of the 20th century. Take it back.

>>69237962
That's not Bartok, Messiaen, Debussy, Schoenberg, Ives or Carter

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>>69238098
>Messiaen
>Ives

>>69237923
>Fagner
>Dick Stress
>Sang-Sang
>Shoehornberg
>Cockamaninoff

I love me some Brahm

>>69238098
>Debussy
>Messiaen
>Jewberg

fuck off

>>69238116
>>69238359
Top kek, shit taste abound

>>69238298
Brahms is love, Brahms is life

>>69238098

>Ives
>Carter
>better than Shostakovich

confirmed for being brainwashed by the academia

>>69233659
live opera sound is usually acoustically inferior to studio recordings

obviously you can't repeat to get the best take if it's live, so maybe a few missed notes or screwed dynamics here and there

audience noise can be really annoying too, but of course that depends on the records

I'd usually take a good studio performance over an amazing live performance simply because the live performances typically don't translate well to tape.

>>69238441
Carter is a lot better than Shosty.

>>69205996
Redpill me on masterpieces.
All my life I wasn't really interested in classical music but since I decided to learn piano I want to know more. I have always assumed that classical piece can be good objectively and the most famous composers like Bach, Mozart, Tchaikovsky etc went down in history not like Kanye West will but rather like Homer with Iliad.

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>tfw people don't like Shostakovich cause of '50s propaganda
>tfw everyone hates the last bastion of tonal music

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>>69238537

>>69238537
reddit will better suit your needs

(never post in this thread again btw)

>>69238537

It's mostly about consistency.
Kanye West wrote some popular tunes, Beethoven instead consistently released groundbreaking and infinitely beautiful music for 50 years.
Bach was literally the keyboardist in the world.
Mozart basically redefined what it means to compose beautiful music.

It's not about tunes, the work of these composers are actually groundbreaking, almost unbelievable.

It's like comparing a famous modern novelist with Dostoevskyìj. In the first case you may have something entertaining, in the second you have true, evident and immortal genius.

>>69238666
>Mozart basically redefined what it means to compose beautiful music
[citation needed]

leave it to satan to shill for mozart

>>69238666
>Bach was literally the keyboardist in the world.
well, one of them

>>69238680
Lucifer was basically the head of music in Heaven, so it makes sense for him to have the best taste

>>69238766
go to bed, satan

>>69238666
>>69238766
>these digits

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>tfw you're too autistic to understand if mozart haters are serious or not

Is it just baiting?

>>69238562
>>69238659
>>69238680
I see your thread is full of aids as well.

>>69238860

Mozfart more like

>>69238860
Any thinking man will come to the conclusion that Mozart isn't as spectacular as some say he is. If you think Mozart is amazing, you've been duped by extensive marketing campaigns by the major classical labels.

>>69238882
Yeah ever since you came fucking rètard

>>69206128
bolero is boring af m8

>>69238913
>Any thinking man will come to the conclusion that Mozart isn't as spectacular as some say he is.
>tfw Bernard Shaw and Einstein weren't thinking men

>>69238396
I said Brahm

Did anyone actually achieve the level of Mozart's effortlessness?

>>69239163
>made maybe 5 good symphonies after 41 tries
>effortless

xD

>>69239254
>>underrating 25
>being harsh on works written when he was about 8

>>69239142
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7E-IF8tWo

You've fallen prey to marketing my friend. For an example, look at this advertisement for a new 200 CD box set of Mozart's music. Why do they include a quote by Einstein at 1:38? He sawed around on his violin, but was he an authority in the sphere of music? No. Was he a professional in regards to music? No. Then why would they include a quote by someone whose opinion on music matters very little? Because you associate Mozart with Einstein's intelligence and buy his music. It works in the same way as any other celebrity endorsement. Use your head.

>>69239351
>but was he an authority in the sphere of music? No. Was he a professional in regards to music? No.
There are plenty who are both of those things and claimed Mozart as the best, or one of the best.

>>69239351
>Use your head.
Take your own advise.
Mozart was praised way before recordings and marketing. From Haydn to Brahms to Debussy to Schoenberg.

>>69239406

>From Haydn to Brahms to Debussy to Schoenberg.

And? Composers pat each other on the back all the time. All of them have endorsed countless others as well.

>>69239406
>Mozart was praised way before recordings and marketing

Obviously. The point is his reputation has been aggrandized to an unfortunate level because of non-thinkers such as yourself. Was Mozart a good composer? Sure. Was he a great composer? Probably. Greatest of all time? Give me a break.

>Harnoncourt is dead
>Boulez is dead
>Barenboim is still alive

>>69239351

>mozard box set

Dude Mozart has literally been a living legend for 200 years now.There is no great composer in history who shared your opinion. You're literally by yourself on this.

Enjoy your shitty meaningless cospiracies.

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>>69239474
>Greatest of all time?
A lot of composers and other well-educated people seem to agree with this position.
Have you considered Mozart is just 2deep4u?

>>69239533
>living legend

go to bed mozart

>“If a man tells me he likes Mozart, I know in advance that he is a bad musician.” - Frederick Delius

>>69239474
>an endorsement from Einstein isn't worth anything, because he is not an expert

>an endorsement from Wagner, Schoenberg or Debussy isn't worth anything

What?

>>69239474

>Composers pat each other on the back all the time.

>composers are dumb
>critics are dumb
>listeners are dumb
>only this guy is right
>still no compelling argument on his side

>“Most of Mozart’s music is dull.” - Maria Callas

>>69239589
>British composers
Further proof that Mozart underraters are sub-human

>“eight remarkable measures … surrounded by a half-hour of banality.”

Glenn Gould on Mozart's 40th "symphony"

>"Exposure to an excess of Mozart is one of the more refined forms of water torture: the victim knows the next blob is about to drop on his skull, then another, but he is a prisoner in Row H and cannot move until set free by applause.
>One Mozart opus, decently played, is the limit of human endurance. Four is like drowning in sherry." - Norman Lebrecht

>>69239589
>Beethoven, Schubert and Hadyn were bad musicians

Nice dogmatism you've got there, mate

>“Mozart was a bad composer who died too late rather than too early.” - Glenn Gould

>Let’s face it — Mozart is boring. I’m sorry, but there’s no better way to say it. Maybe if it was the year 1780 I’d feel differently. But in 2013, with all of the other musical options out there — “classical” and/or “popular” — Mozart just doesn’t do it for me. If I want to hear relaxing music, there’s always Brian Eno or Norah Jones or Perotin or Stan Getz or Jackie Gleason. If I want to rock out, I can listen to Bjork, Spiritualized, Coltrane, Berlioz or Wagner. I never find myself thinking, “You know, I’d really like to hear some Mozart right now…” - Anonymous

>>69239674
>Glenn Gould says that
>his Mozart is almost unanimously considered one of the worst ever

He probably didn't get it.

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>"For the past 80 years I have started each day in the same manner. It is not a mechanical routine, but something essential to my daily life. I go to the piano, and I play two preludes and fugues of Bach. I cannot think of doing otherwise. It is a sort of benediction on the house. But that is not its only meaning for me. It is a rediscovery of the world of which I have the joy of being a part. It fills me with awareness of the wonder of life, with a feeling of the incredible marvel of being a human being. The music is never the same for me, never. Each day it is something new, fantastic and unbelievable. That is Bach, like nature, a miracle." - Pablo Casals


See the difference?

>>69239641
>>69239674
Glenn Gould hated on nearly everyone and everything after Bach though

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>underraters have started to spam quotes by musical illiterates
Fitting really.

>Of Gould [Pogorelich] comments: "The tragedy of Glenn Gould is that was one of the brightest and most talented people born in this century. He could have become a unique value in art, but he never did. He was born to perform. The gap between his natural gifts and his low-level education led him to the crucial mistakes that eventually killed him. He was totally side tracked." As I understand him, he is saying that Gould lacked both a good, formal academic education which would have opened his mind and imagination to other cultures and ideas; and he lacked higher musical education with a truly outstanding teacher who would have been in a position to force him to play and think about Chopin, Beethoven and Mozart more seriously. Instead, Gould formed an early dislike of these composers, wrote witty put-downs of them, and was never forced by a serious musician to re-examine his thoughts... In The Romantic Generation, Charles Rosen describes Chopin as the greatest master of counterpoint since Bach and Mozart. He warmed up fora concert by playing preludes and fugues from WTC. Why did Gould reject Mozart and Chopin given his love of Bach and Schoenberg? Why did he gravitate to the romantics who were not masters of counterpoint? There is something illogical about his dislike of Chopin. Perhaps it is because Chopin meant Rubenstein in his youth, or Horowitz, neither of whom he liked. But one senses that Gould might have been intellectually insecure and once having made a judgment was reluctant to change it. And he so arranged things that he would never have to be challenged in these judgments. He liked to challenge others, but did not himself like to be challenged. We should be content with what he did with Bach alone; why should he have been a master of Chopin as well? Still, the dislike is strange.
We /Gould/ now.

>>69239735
>>69239626
>>69239552
>>69239533
man, you must have been paid handsomely to endorse a shit composer so completely

Who are the most overrated composers of all time (besides Mozart)?

>>69239772
"Well, it can't get any worse than this," I said to Virgil as we surveyed the horrors of the Ninth Ring. Drops of lava were falling around us. To our right, Lucifer lay waist deep in ice, gnashing away on the gizzards of Brutus, Cassius and Judas Iscariot. Virgil looked around guardedly.

"Don't let out this trade-secret, but there's actually a Tenth Ring - or room rather. It sits under Satan's `sewage pipe'. It houses the most notorious SBL of all time."

I raised an eyebrow questioningly. The acronym was new to me.

"SBL - Smug Bach Lover. Most of them have beards that are a fire-hazard in summer; they hang around organ lofts, wear cardigans and sneer at Italian opera. But this guy is virulent - like a Satan Bug. He committed a crime that was so gross that both God and Lucifer acted in unison."

"Who on earth is it?"

"Glenn Gould - or Glenn Ghoul as his adversaries call him."

"He's down there?" I asked. Virgil nodded.

"What crime did he commit?"

"Sure, Gould made that derogatory comment on Mozart - that the composer died too late rather than too soon - but have you ever heard his survey of the piano sonatas? They're an abomination. Mozart's sonatas are creations of their time. They have their own chemistry. If you have the intestinal fortitude, listen to - but do not buy - his cycle. Not a movement goes by wherein the Ghoulster does not try to broadcast their lack of counterpoint from his SBL perspective. I cannot see how anyone who cares one iota for Mozart would countenance such vandalism."

>>69239796

Wagner

>>69239406
>Schoenberg

>In August 1914, while denouncing the music of Beethoven, Mozart and Bach, Schoenberg wrote: "Now comes the reckoning! Now we will throw these mediocre kitschmongers into slavery, and teach them to venerate the German spirit and to worship the German God"
>Mozart was Austrian, not German

really makes you think

>>69239808
Virgil led me over to a trapdoor and pulled out a key. We trooped down a long shaft. Another door came into view. With effort, my guide swung it open and we walked into a brightly lit studio.

A Steinway was located in the middle of the room. Glenn Gould sat behind it. He looked very 1981-ish and thus bore resemblance to Wolfman Jack. As was his custom, he had lowered his chair so that his hands were arched above the keyboard. Glenn did not notice our intrusion. He was endlessly repeating one study - over and over and over again.

"What on earth is he playing?" I whispered.

"It's an exercise in Alberti Bass - that's his punishment. Until he expiates his sins against Mozart, it won't stop."

"But Amazon is still selling the wretch cycle and it's making new converts by the day. Every time someone perpetuates his error, it makes it all the harder for GG to be absolved of his conceit. Me, I don't understand why people chose him in preference to Mozart: The Piano Sonatas [Box Set], Mozart: Piano Sonatas, Vol. 1 or Mozart: Complete Piano Sonatas; they want to glorify Mozart, not submit him to a polyphonic rack!"

"Then the punishment won't stop until Judgement Day and perhaps beyond."

We left the Ghoulster to his doom. His fate, dear reader, is your hands.

>>69239772
pfft jealous much? even my friends that aren't particularly interested in classical music are familiar with the name Gould. Pogo is a literal who compared to him. Ivo should stick to recording Chopin like the pwussyboi he is

MAKE MOZARTPOSTING A BANNABLE OFFENSE

that includes both sides of the arguement

>>69239772
I do believe his obsession with Bach is a bit unhealthy

Mozart is what you listen to when you're a child or just getting into to classical music. Bach is what you listen to when you become a man.

>>69239848
>pwussyboi
/lgbt/ pls go.
Pogo is hardly one to be throwing stones but I think he has a point. Gould is probably one of the least insightful musicians there is.

>>69239728
Casals loved Mozart btw and programmed him more than Bach

>>69239867

It is justifiable, considering that Bach is literally the only musician that Gould managed to master.

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>>69239869
>this is what Bachtists actually believe

>Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, and Columbia records interns coming out of the woodwork to defend their precious cash cow

Lmao, pathetic.

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>>69239910
You dropped this.

>>69239894
1. Gould didn't master Bach (such a thing isn't even possible)
2. Trying to master Bach is still the most noble undertaking there is in music. Why waste time on the underlings when you can go straight for the source?

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>trying to listen to one of Mozart's piano concertos

Bach and before, Ives and after.

can someone rec stuff with a lot of high pitched woodwind like Dvorak and Smetana

>>69239993
t. frog

>>69223549
Piano isn't even a real instrument, just a stupid box with levers on it. completely incapable of conveying emotion. Even worse than Classical guitar.

>>69223549
Also, ((Ashekenazy))

>>69228744
That recording has the worst string sound I've ever heard

>>69222769
>organ music
>good

pick one

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How do I into impressionism?

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>>69240091

Why do some people care so much about Impressionism, Romanticism, and 21st century classical but never seem to care about anything else? Is this how you can spot a poseur trying to get into classical?

>>69242239
shut up, retard

>>69242268
back to RYM, poseur

>>69242239
>>69242300
the easiest way to spot a poseur is to find the guy that can't stop calling everyone else a poseur

>>69242239
Yes.

Underraters and Bachtists/Lutherans are another breed of these troglodytes.

>>69242391
Pleb.

>>69242426
Literally not an argument.

>>69242441
>arguing with a strawman

Keep going.

>>69242359
Typicial RYM poseur rhetoric, claim to love classical but get upset when they're asked to question what they're listening to.

>>69242492
>>>/pol/

>>69242532
What do you want me to do with this strawman non-argument?

>>69242566
go back to your home board

>>>/pol/

poseur-core classical chart when?

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>>69242666
Here is part of it

>>69242666
>>69238666
>satan's still shitposting

>>69242666
>Gould's Goldberg variations recordings
>Feldman
>Mozart's requiem? Maybe the 40th symphony for muh quasi-tone row
>Beethoven's late quartets
What else?

>>69242734
Julius Eastman, Berg's Lyric Suite, Tristan, Rite of Spring...

>>69242734
the rest of Mozart's oeuvre and the entire Classical period

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>>69242803
End yourself.

>>69242812
Not an argument.

>>69242803
Poseur detected.

>>69242856
said the poseur

>>69242803
And you can prove this how? Where do you see the massive fanboying over Mozart anywhere else but /classical/?

Fresh new bread

>>69243283

>>69243283

>>69243283

>>69241417

please respond