Jazz general? Let's have another argument about jazz education

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everyone knows only black people can play jazz kneegrows

>>68930481
I don't know anything you just said at all but I like Herbie Hancock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK-4p2Fbn80

>>68930529
hes kinda faggy t b h senpai.

>>68930534
>Faggy
Clarify, Please.

>>68930567
rootless voicings but in a gayer sounding way then bill evans. hes fucking good in the 60s just kinda fluffy, fusion stuff blooows.

>>68930594
...Wow. I'm stupid. I didn't know what any of that first half meant.

'Fluffy' doesn't seem like an insult. I like fluffy music.

>>68930634
ah, then yeah thats fine. i mean herbie is great and the example you posted is good but not great. I dont like fluffy sounding stuff. try listening to miles my favorite things, the live album from 65.

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>>68930698
>miles
>my favorite things
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>68930715
my funny valentine, im high, you know this.

how do I get into jazz, are there any essentials charts?

>>68930698
Is Bitches Brew any better? I listened to that the other week.

>>68931056
Just listen to a bunch of Hank Herbcock and Daves Milo like these guys are saying.

>>68931112
I've listened to nothing but Herbie and bitches brew. I'm up to Manchild with Herbie. So far I've only hated one album.

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More like this?
I love solo dancer and duet, especially the intensity and texture of the brass instruments. It's almost like the instruments are quacking? I don't really know how to explain it since I don't know how to understand music.

More jazz memes please

>>68930481

So I have been playing jazz piano for about 2 months.. Obviously I suck but here's I Remember Clifford recorded with my shitty HTC One.

https://clyp.it/g5c3omqm

Are there any Gillespie records in which he really goes 'all out'? As in, a lot of long solos and less of the classic bebop framework? I know some tracks on the RCA's and a lot of the Massey Hall record fit my description (And to some degree - dizz and bird).

>>68933115
2 months only?
How did you learn?

>>68930481
Jazz is poor man's classical

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Jazz, and jazz music,.

>>68933274


i-is..is it b-bad..? I read the mark levine jazz book and listened to jazz as i fall asleep.. and when i'm awake of course

>>68933334
Well I'm coming from the perspective of not understanding music theory, nor how to play instruments but it sounds competent to me. Did you have any musical experience before?
I might give it a shot if you didn't.

>>68933175
Live at the Village Vanguard is kind of like that

>>68933348

I have been playing for at least a decade before attempting jazz, and improvising mostly some weird stuff beforehand but.. Jazz is really a language which I have never tried speaking until 6 months back then. I started out on the guitar but realized 2 months before that it's easier on the piano so.. Yeah. Do you think the Clifford arrangement sounds 'jazzy'?

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this is some different shit

Kind of blue>>> All

>>68932748
FUCK YEAH

>>68933399
Haha damn, I got the strange impression that you were taking on jazz with no prior musical experience. The actual piano doesn't sound that good, a bit honky tonk for a ballad of this kind, (if you know what I mean) but otherwise pretty sweet. Keep working on it anon, Jazz is something you will keep learning new things from constantly. :)

>>68933819

Yeah I agree it sounds honky tonky.. it's an out of tune yamaha upright. I played on grands before and it's so much easier to sound 'jazzy' on them..

>>68932865
Keep listening to Mingus's albums after that one.

Let my Children Hear Music and Reincarnation of a Lovebird are pretty good, if you are looking for that sort of "symphonic" jazz.

Guys, rec me some easy songs for a beginner to start transcribing and practicing please

Trying to get into jazz bass rn

>>68934395
Autumn Leaves

To the guy who recommended Coltrane Live In Japan a couple days ago, thank you so much I love you, that compilation is AMAZING.

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This shit is lit

>>68936846
Listen the rest of Blakey's Messengers, Lee Morgan solo stuff and Hank Mobley's blue note albums. Essential hard bop

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Love the atmosphere on here, anyone have recommendations for a similar style?

>>68931145
If you're liking Miles and Herbie, I would definitely recommend some Thelonious Monk. It seems like an obvious progression to me, or at least that's the way I experienced it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRIXys1xMGc

>>68933867
I was about to say, that shit is waaaaay out of tune. I like your playing though, keep it up.

>>68936902
Not the same anon, but I appreciate the recs!

>>68931056
Listen to stuff where the drumming is really prominent, that's what got me to love it

>>68937335
Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHJYNDVkXU

>>68937032

Yeah I'm considering getting it tuned but I'm also moving house in a couple of months.. then I would have to pay someone else to tune it again.. might as well tune it when I move.

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OK can someone explain the appeal of spiritual jazz?? why is it even considered a subgenre of avant-garde jazz?
and why is post-bop extremely interesting and fantastic?

Sorry for the very general questions, but I seem to be incapable of appreciating the structure of the small amount of spiritual jazz releases I've been exposed to. What am I missing?

>>68933334
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but is that really a thing? Does listening to music like that right before you fall asleep really help you internalize it? Color me interested.

>>68937403
yeah and this
http://youtu.be/T9SbYiRKHO8

>>68937570

Obviously not anon. I tried doing that to a bunch of Chopin songs and I still don't know how to write a romantic era piece.

However I did get awoken to a bunch of piano phrases occasionally, maybe it subconsciously entered my head.

Nah it's all a bunch of bullshit don't do it. Just listen to nothing but jazz for a couple of weeks and you will start thinking in jazz. It's pretty boring though

What exactly is the difference between bebop, hard bop and post bop? I've found myself enjoying a lot of albums classified as hard bop.

>>68937978
Bebop has a ton of chordal changes at fast tempos and improvisation usually focus completely on marking every single one of them at usually a high tempo, Charlie Parker stuff is the obvious and best example.

Hard bop is a kind of laid-back bebop, it still focuses on marking down the chords but the harmonic structures aren't as complicated, it has a more bluesy feel, and the solos are also more melodic, even if they still meet every single chord with a fitting note they focus more on making variatons over the main theme and making the whole solo less technical and more "soulful" to say anything, kinda like a middle-point between bebop and modal jazz I'd say (if you ignore all that stuff about using modes instead of typical scales).

I don't know much about post bop though, but it's basically a genre that originated after hardbop was creatively exhausted so I'd say it's "weird" hard bop, if hardbop wanted to make the solos feel less constrained compared to the strict harmonic structures of bebop, post bop gives them even more freedom, and as a result it sounds like a mix between hardbop and free jazz.
It's hard to define post bop, the best thing you can do is listen to it, Out to Lunch by Eric Dolphy is the example that comes to mind.

>>68937435
>spiritual jazz

I think it's more a thing of theme than anything else. Rather than specific composition, what defines it is the overall theme of the album, as well as the instrumentation. You can hear exotic percussion, peculiar sounds, etc. And there's an obvious sense of "spirituality" across the whole playing.

I do agree that if you listen to A Love Supreme without knowing it's about some sort of religious introspection you might as well feel as you have just listened to another regular album. But man, reading a book by the Dalai Lama while listening to Pharoah really is enlightening.

>>68937978
Bebop came first and emphasized fast tempos, complex harmony and substitutions, and irregular phrasing. Whereas most jazz prior to bebop was meant to be danced to, bebop was just meant for listening.

Hard bop is basically the progression of bebop, using bebop style soloing but incorporating more blues, gospel and Latin ideas into the mix with a wider range of tempos. A lot of times there isn't really a clearly defined line between bebop and hard bop. Many great albums that are usually classified as "hard bop" have one or two tracks that are basically classic bebop.

Post-bop is basically a further extension of hard bop, now mixing in influences of free jazz and modal harmony. Basically there are still some elements of bop, typically in the soloing, but with more advanced harmony, form, time signatures, and more flexibility in all of these traits with a focus on interplay in the ensemble, sometimes with sections of free improvisation. Again, it's not always easy to draw a clear line between hard and post bop.

>>68930481
wew I didn't think I'd see that pic ever again
>>68937435
>can someone explain the appeal of spiritual jazz?
Like with all jazz I don't think it's accurate to narrow down spiritual jazz to a bunch of characteristics in the music, but a lot of people associate it with stuff like Pharoah and crossover stuff with afro jazz and Africa, so taking that as an example I guess people find it very uplifting, it has a lot of rhythm and usually along with it a great sense of freedom in the music. But like I said, the previous example is pretty different to Coltrane's A Love Supreme, which is not so over the top and has different themes.
>why is it even considered a subgenre of avant-garde jazz?
I wouldn't consider avant-garde jazz a genre. To me it's a style of jazz which also has some avant-garde elements to it. And I think the same for spiritual jazz, besides people being inspired to what Coltrane or Pharoah did, and in a way being inspired by that sound, there aren't really any general rules to spiritual jazz, it's just how you pour spirituality into the music, and that can have a very different result from musician to another. Avant-garde and spiritual jazz might usually be put together because at the time, what Coltrane was doing with A Love Supreme was boundary-pushing, as well as what other people associated with the genre did or are doing.

>>68938097
holy shit kill yourself
>>68938276
6/10 explanation, not bad.

>>68938561
come at me fag

>>68938276
>>68938097

thanks, I will try to remember this

so basically it goes: hard bop is a more chill version of bebop, and post bop is a more "weird" version of both of them?

>>68938643
no hard bop has to be influenced by gospel
and post-bop is more free-jazz and avant jazz influenced, weird is not an applicable definition.

>>68938643
>>68938699
>no hard bop has to be influenced by gospel
doesn't hard bop take more influence from blues than gospel tho

>>68938752
jazz as a genre is majorly influenced by blues since its inception, it's like saying Deep Purple are influenced by blues but not The Beatles, if you catch my drift.

>>68938784
so basically Gospel is what gave it its own distinction from other types of jazz

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Yeah I know its a meme album but holy shit, I love this album more than anything it never fails to calm me down and put me in a relaxed mood especially when I have massive panic attacks, what a fucking catchy fantastic album

>>68938784
well yeah but when comparing it to bebop to me it always sounded more clearly influenced, like going back to the roots

>>68938820
well, listen to more bop, there's ton of blues in there
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuVWNv2kEkE

>>68938817
>I know it's a meme album
stop that

>>68938881
yeah I guess, if i hadn't seen who's playing I'd have said it was an old hardbop recording instead of bebop
didn't know gillespie played piano

>>68938959
Yeah it's actually a funny story, 1945,The first official Bird recording under his own name, Dizzy hand picked the band and wanted to get Bud Powell to record piano on these tracks, but eventually it didn't work out so he replaced him with Sadik Hakim which was so overwhelmed by the complex chord progressions Dizzy himself took it to play the piano parts.

>>68933175
He gets a lot more time to stretch on Sonny Side Up. Plus Stitt and Rollins are great. Plus you literally cannot possibly listen to Dizzy's vocals on track one and not be cheered up.

>>68938944
yea, i'm tired of this board ruining every album because it's either a 'meme' or 'entry-level bullshit'. I know it's bad people discussing the same top 40 jazz in every single thread, but keep in mind that these albums are often great and there are newfriends who're just starting listening to jazz.

>>68933284
lol

>>68933749
i like to think the suite is a depiction of death

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Hey this is nice. What genre is it exactly, and what are some similar albums?

>>68933284
>poor man's classical
Not really, there's too much improvisation. Ragtime is more like a poor man's classical I think.

god jazz improvisation is so fucking hard. i'm dying.

there are so many chords and so many scales and just so much shit to learn. it's gonna take me years to even clumsily solo through a standard

>>68940890
Really makes you appreciate a good Charlie Parker or Clifford Brown solo eh?

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So I just came across a used copy of this album at the local record store, and the first track is a kind of folk acoustic rendition of Miles Davis's "So What." I was wondering what you jazz people think of it. Is this a worthy rendition or is it blasphemy?

Whatever you say, this is my new study music.

>>68943082
Forgot to actually link it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBEXfr_TRcU

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does /mu/ like archie shepp? anyone got exciting modern free jazz releases?

>>68943981
Check out Dave Scott- Brooklyn Aura

Who /BillEvans/ here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTlKzkdtW9I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJ28z3z7KY

Bonus goofy holiday pick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hlg6vg0jZeM

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>>68944395
I appreciate your rec.

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new fave. jawdropping third stream. wasn't expecting much out of this but it really caught me