Was Ozzy the ABSOLUTE MADMAN of the 80s?

EPOTY desu

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more possible evidence that indeed he was

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SOMEBODY LOCK THIS MAN UP!

no that was probably gg allin

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>>68397552
I think it is clear that Ozzy was obviously more insane

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>>68397552

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Ozzy Osborne [Distinctions Not Cost Effective, 1980s]

I have no interest in his albums, but I do appreciate how he mooned the PMRC every chance he got. And his egg-frying scene in Penelope Spheeris's "The Decline of Western Civilization" is a classic.

>>68397643
>caring about the opinions of some weakling """"critic""""

also.....
......[punk lost in the end!]

>>68397656
Well no actually it didn't because stadium buttmetal is extinct and rock went back to being indie/underground just like Kurt Cobain wanted it to be.

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"Who cares if Ozzy Osborne gets fat on raw chicken or David Crosby guzzles raw coke or Pete Townshend is trying to perfect the rock opera? They're all pathetic clowns even if I have to maintain a grudging respect for two of them."

>>68397643
>And his egg-frying scene in Penelope Spheeris's "The Decline of Western Civilization" is a classic.
I've got some bad news for ya. Do you wanna hear it?

>>68397671
punk is completely, utterly dead.

grunge and alternative completely destroyed itself, thanks almost solely to Kurt, but also all the critics like Christgau etc who built up the punk/alternative narrative into something that was ultimately impossible.

in the end, pop metal sounds funner and still plays in bars. grunge is just seen as the metal-derivative it was. punk is an irrelevant, dead joke. indie can never grow to anything vital because it's taken on a corrective policy of staying small so it never gets the grunge-era-like overhype/overkill treatment

metal, meanwhile, survived in the underground and is still a vital scene. isn't as big as it was in the 80s of course, rock as a large phenomenon is over. but as an underground it's still very much alive. the same can't be said of punk.

>>68397691
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcYeRPtWi7A
Published on Jan 8, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHTklDWedQ
Published on Apr 21, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj8emUhESeA
Published on Jul 29, 2016

>>68397700
and nobody anywhere cared except for probably a like a handful of old guys in Orange County with greaser hairdos

>>68397691
>grunge is just seen as the metal-derivative it was

Where do you listen to Nirvana and get any metal derivation from?

>>68397708
Black Sabbath and 70s proto-metal by way of Black Flag and stuff like Dinosaur Jr

>>68397706
even if thats true so what?

punk records are being made so punks alive or in that case specifically hardcore punk

https://smokeringspdx.bandcamp.com/album/boxes
released January 16, 2016

https://burntpalms.bandcamp.com/album/back-on-my-wall-2
released February 5, 2016

https://jeffrosenstock.bandcamp.com/track/planet-luxury
from WORRY., releases October 14, 2016

Kurt Cobain actually loved all kinds of metal, both mainstream stuff like Ozzy and Metallica and more underground bands. I think what he really had hoped to do was get rid of manufactured bullshit bands of the Foreigner/Poison type that were invented by record labels to exploit what had been grassroots musical movements, and of course he quite correctly divined that Pearl Jam were one of those kind of bands.

>>68397691
>but also all the critics like Christgau etc who built up the punk/alternative narrative into something that was ultimately impossible

What was that?

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>>68397775
contemplate it on the Tree of Woe

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"If you look at the history of popular music for the past 30 or so years, it's always been the same. Whenever some new, exciting musical movement comes along, the corporate world finds a way to take control of it, market it, and water it down. I'd hoped the alternative movement would be different. I had tremendous respect for Nirvana. Pearl Jam, too. But Bush? What the hell fun is it competing with them?"

>>68397775
He means they sorely underestimated Corporate America's ability to exploit indie music scenes for shekels.

"Oh no, it's not gonna happen this time it's not gonna happen this time it's not gonna..."

At least Cobain killed himself before he got to see Creed and Staind happen.

Punk stopped existing when Black Flag broke up. Let it go, man.

>>68397691
>grunge and alternative completely destroyed itself, thanks almost solely to Kurt, but also all the critics like Christgau etc who built up the punk/alternative narrative into something that was ultimately impossible

*shrugs* Hey, that happened to the 60s counterculture movement too. Whaddya want? By the mid-70s, a lot of rock fans were let down by the rise of commercialized buttrock like Doobie Brothers and Kiss.

>>68397880
jesus he's such a pretentious fucking cunt, the pumpkins were my fav band in high school regardless though, billy's a genius

>>68397933
this.

but the thing was, punk and alternative were kind of defined by their supposed realness by way of anti-corporateness and undergroundness.

whereas hippies were counterculture, but they had a more cosmic, totalizing outlook where, like, obviously a good band is going to get big and make money and that's the way it is and who cares, so that didn't compromise the integrity of their music as much, bands could get big and mainstream but still be weird and creative and 'real'.

the problem with punk and alternative is kind of the marxist fallacy, really (well, one of the marxist fallacies) which is that there can be people who are perpetually the proletariat or the revolutionary or whatever... that such an antagonistic or underdog or revolutionary status isn't relational and contingent and ultimately meaningless and valueless. it has no bearing on the quality of music anyways, unless you make that a predicate of what the music is based in, like alternative, in which case it becomes insufferable when it 'sells out' (all these mainstream corporate bros in the mid 90s singing about how depressed they were because that's what Kurt had done, etc)

>>68397969
I don't buy the punk narrative that hippie music got bad though. psychedelia was great in the underground and in the really popular bands. when they went more country or folky that stuff was great too.

prog was pretty good too, and so was like jazz-rock and (the recently dubbed) 'yacht rock'.

it was all great shit. Floyd were good when they were a small underground band, and were great when they were flying around in jets. Zeppelin were fucking legends (I don't care how much they were played on classic rock stations, they were still great).

etc etc etc

>>68397708
bleach is basically a melvins rip

>>68398022
which bleach songs from which melvins songs?

>>68397994
The problem was in the 60s, rock was a quite monolithic entity and one big force for youth rebellion. So rock in of itself was counterculture.

After the counterculture era wound down however, corporate America quickly came to capitalize on rock and invent manufactured buttrock groups who mainly functioned as Top 40 hit factories. The Doobie Brothers were one of the pioneers of corporate rock and they soon spawned imitators.

In the 80s, rock had split firmly into scenes with metal, punk, indie, whatever. It wasn't monolithic anymore like the 70s when James Taylor, Doobie Brothers, Eagles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, and Jethro Tull were all considered "rock" and could be found next to each other on the same record shelf. By the 80s, the split meant that metalheads did not associate with alternativefags in fact they were pretty much enemies (many critics like Christgau who were dyed-in-the-wool punks took the side of the alternative guys and denounced metal).

>>68398073
weirdly though even the more 'corporate' bands back in the 70s and even 80s were pretty good though. that didn't compromise it so much. not that they were purely corporate.

but like all that buttrock and stadium rock and hard rock is pretty fucking incredible. and pop in the 80s was way more inspired (perhaps because it was new) then. even like soft proto-'adult contemporary' like 80s Genesis was pretty great and inspired. music was able to stay pretty great for a long time. and a lot of the stuff punks were saying was so awful... really wasn't.

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>>68398073
You say that, all though, metal and alternative did tie in pretty close together; Metallica played with Alice In Chains once or twice I believe and alot of metalheads do like alternative rock (myself for example) I dunno, alternate metal is a thing too y'know.

>>68398099
Punks said alot of things were awful because it was 'mainstream'. Trust me, I love punk, but sometimes so called "punks" can be insufferable.

>>68398073
>In the 80s, rock had split firmly into scenes with metal, punk, indie, whatever. It wasn't monolithic anymore like the 70s when James Taylor, Doobie Brothers, Eagles, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin, and Jethro Tull were all considered "rock" and could be found next to each other on the same record shelf. By the 80s, the split meant that metalheads did not associate with alternativefags in fact they were pretty much enemies (many critics like Christgau who were dyed-in-the-wool punks took the side of the alternative guys and denounced metal).

I think this is a bit of an oversimplication. Most metal guys had respect for punk bands. For example, Metallica often wore punk shirts on stage in the early days and of course the last GNR album was a collection of punk covers. On the other hand, as we already noted, Kurt Cobain loved lots of metal.

What both metalheads and punks had in common was a loathing of the Bon Jovi school of rock which was totally corporate, diluted, and targeted at 11 year olds.

>>68398127
one of my many problems with punk was that it was largely based in this idea that such-and-such styles of music are TERRIBLE, which is just fucking WRONG (they claim this about some of the most amazing shit) and then provide the most back-to-basics, conservative rock n roll as an alternative, as if that's supposed to entice me

never understood how people bought into that nonsense.

We should also make a distinction between the "true" punk bands like Ramones and Dead Kennedys and the post-punk groups like The Cure who were on major labels and much more mainstream.

>>68398142
the latter of which I always liked much better.

I have infinitely more time for postpunk and goth and industrial and synthpop etc etc rather than like X or The Ramones

>>68398133
When thrash metal first started in the mid-80s, it was really underground. Hardly anyone knew about Metallica or Slayer in the beginning and the casual metal fan at that time just listened to Ozzy and Maiden and whatever. After 85 however, the thrash bands gradually came to dominate the metal scene as older groups like Judas Priest started to run out of gas.

>>68398142
The Cure were kind of pop punk in the beginning, but they wouldn't go back to that format until KMKMKM which spawned several hit singles.

>>68398142
Rock 'n' Roll High School is a 1979 musical comedy film produced by Roger Corman, directed by Allan Arkush, and starring P. J. Soles, Vince Van Patten, and Clint Howard.[2] The film featured the punk rock group the Ramones.

reaching number 44 on the US Billboard 200 chart, and number 14 on the UK Albums Chart. End of the Century spawned the singles "Baby, I Love You" and "Do You Remember Rock 'n' Roll Radio?."
Released February 4, 1980
Recorded May 1979

>>68398139
>one of my many problems with punk was that it was largely based in this idea that such-and-such styles of music are TERRIBLE, which is just fucking WRONG (they claim this about some of the most amazing shit) and then provide the most back-to-basics, conservative rock n roll as an alternative, as if that's supposed to entice me
That's if you take the Christgau notion that rock should be three chords and no more than 3:30 in length.

>>68398179
The Ramones were still very much pop punk from the beginning, which was why they had songs like "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend". Dead Kennedys sure as fuck not.

Hair metal was basically a diluted mix of all the major 70s AOR metal acts--Sabbath, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Kiss, AC/DC--watered down for radio play.

>>68398195
I was just refuting that The Cure were "much more mainstream"

I also wouldn't be surprised if Blitzkrieg Bop is a bigger single than The Cure ever had.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg_Bop#Notable_cover_versions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg_Bop#Uses_in_popular_culture

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>>68398133
Exactly this, I love all genres, except for the totally corporate, shill machine that was 80s hair/glam rock.

>>68398153
I couldn't say the same, sometimes those bands can get a bit too cheesy for my taste (see siouxsie, as much as I love her and her music)

>>68398160
Exactly this.

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"The record industry has always been the same. Well, not so much anymore since the record industry is dead, but you know, back when there was a record industry. Any time some groundbreaking new artist like a Twisted Sister or a Nirvana comes along that makes people turn their heads and go 'Whoa, who's that?', they sit down there and try to study it and analyze it to see how it works and how they can make money off of it. So you had a bunch of bands whose names all started with a W, the Wingers, the White Lions, the Warrants, the White Snakes. And they'd have two basic kinds of songs. One, the power ballad which was designated for radio play, and two, the rock track for cred, which was only going to be played on rock radio. But after a while, they decided to drop the cred track and only do power ballads. And then MTV had this thing going where every band had to play an acoustic set to prove they were 'serious' artists. So now it got even better. They decide 'Oh well, let's get rid of the electric guitars entirely and just play acoustic.' End result, you have a bunch of idiots strumming acoustic guitars on bar stools like a fucking folk band."

I prefer early stoner Ozzy, at least he punched Sharon though

>>68398160
The 1986 Metallica and Slayer releases I think were the point where thrash really took over. It also coincided with the older guys like Priest and Maiden releasing some meh albums that year, showing maybe their best days were behind them.

>>68398204
More accurately, they were trying to figure out a way to market metal to girls since typically you didn't see too many of them at an Ozzy or Slayer gig unless they were bulldyke lesbians.

>>68398099
>and pop in the 80s was way more inspired

The 80s was a golden age for pop...but only in the first half of the decade. Aside from Madonna, the second half was really weak.

>>68398020
>it was all great shit. Floyd were good when they were a small underground band, and were great when they were flying around in jets

The Rolling Stones though, boy did they lose it by the time they were flying around in jets (so, mid-70s).

>>68397969
I don't think it's quite fair to put Kiss in the same league as Doobie Brothers because they weren't a band deliberately put together by a record label to churn out top 40 hits and in their own way were pretty edgy back in their prime. That would be like damning the Rolling Stones for later selling coffee mugs with the tongue logo on them.

>>68397994
Yeah of course. The punk movement happened in the late 70s precisely because the Stones and their ilk had become mainstream and didn't speak to what the kids were feeling anymore.

>>68398256
Could you imagine that meeting? I can't. It must not be true.

I hear he ate shit on stage

>>68397708
listen to a good grunge band and you'll see it

>>68397987
nah billy boy is great cause he isn't a cucked liberal druggy like a certain golden boy who needed some shampoo

>>68398187
Yeah I think that's a pretty bad logical fallacy and also autistic as fuck for guys like Bangs and Christgau to claim only they know what true rock-and-roll is.

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>>68397987
He's right though.

>>68397690
Go on...

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"In theory, metal is today's real rock and roll--the music of the people. It's basic, it's rude, kids love it, parents hate it. But the closer you look, the stupider and more delusory it seems. Metal isn't basic--it cultivates a pseudo-virtuosity that negates content. The dreams it promulgates are usually foolish and often destructive. Eighty per cent of the "people" who like it are male, and 98 per cent of them are white."

>>68398455
it's staged particularly the infamous moment of spilling the orange juice. It's not even ozzy its the camera guy or some other crew member. The boxset just came out a few months ago.

Is the hair metal the true counter-culture?

Think about it.
For a long time it has been "in" to be against the "corporate machine" and all such shit.
It has been the thing for so long that IT has become the status quo, even if only superficially.
Well glam rock and hair metal raised their giant middle finger, became true counter-culture in front of these sheeples of the "were so free, maaaaan fuck the sytsem, *proceeds to spend all their money on merch*" moronic masses.

That's why /mu/ hates them. They are true counter-culture of this era and force the /mu/ realize what a bunch of tools and faceless sheeple they are.

Glam makes /mu/ see that they are the musical equivalent of the "communist" college kid who keeps buying Che Guevara posters, t-shirts and coffee mugs from the "machine" he is supposed to be opposed to.