MTV News' Sasha Geffen Delivers the KILLING BLOW to Michael Gira

I don't see how this is a KILLING BLOW of any sort. Some venues are sold out, some aren't. Who the fuck cares

>>68362018
Larkin just can't let it go

>>68362587
>get raped
>"dude just let it go lmao"

aaaaaaaaalrighty then

>>68362626
>Implying he actually raped her
She just wants attention holy shit get over your self

>>68362626
>accuses somebody of rape right before his final album drops
>8 years later
>releases a song week later and goes on tour
if you can't see how planned this was then UGH

>>68362018
OP, I'll not read all that shit.

>>68362660
>>68362626
>>68362645

l-larkin pls stop

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>>68362626
>get raped

>>68362645
>t. white cis bro

>>68362660
so what
if anything shes smart going for that maximum impact

>>68362663
u should

>>68362681
>sure thing officer heres some 8 y.o. dna samples

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>>68362710
>le white male meme
Well I'll be dammed, I've never seen this one before

>>68362626
>has a one-night stand with semi-famous musician
>the relationship ends and there is bad blood between them
>a few years later accuses the guy of raping her, on facebook of all places
>clueless SJWs witchhunt the poor guy
I was afraid how he would take it but I saw him solo and fortunately he seemed fine.

Sasha Geffen also called Marcel a faggot on twitter if I recall correctly.

The fact that she's writing this is amazingly hypocritical.

She's attacking our guys /mu/. Pick a side.

>>68362710
If you can't legally prove something, it never happened :^)

>>68362018
>Fans Wrestle with the Aftermath of a Rape Accusation Against the Band's Leader

kek, literally everyone forgot about it until you brought it up. no one is "wrestling" over it.

>>68362762
SASHA GEFFEN EXPOSED PIECE WHEN???

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>>68362710
>white cis bro
I never thought I'd be posting /pol/ memes on /mu/, see what you made me do?

>>68362791
shes a lonely cat lady lesbian
nobody cars abt her

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The real question here is, how does anyone want to rape this? She's fucking ugly.

>>68362710
shut up white bitch

>>68362823
look at those lips. she does anal and sucks like a pro

>>68362733
>meme
well u have to be
like can you not get off giras dick for one second and see the power structures at play here??

>>68362783
they should b

>>68362762
Almost. Chris Ott was the one who called Marcel a "faggot" and Sasha favorited it and retweeted it.

"Larkin Grimm and I headed towards a consensual romantic moment that fortunately was not consummated"

>>68362867
link

>>68362862
hi sasha
hows your cat doing?

>>68362862
>power structures
>??
alright, so it's just a troll

>>68362867
Ah, you're right. That's what happened. My mistake.

She still seems like a creepy person, though. And the fact that she would write this after the fact that literally nobody brings it up anymore just adds to that.

>Walmart brand Meaghan Garvey
No thank you.

>>68362897
Ott deleted it, if I recall correctly.

Why didnt she make a court case about this? Why did she wait 8 whole years to just..idk...happen to bring this up? Why can't she be more detailed in what exactly happened? No just like "he forced himself on me like blah blah hurr durr all that matters is that he raped me, believe me now?" like no tell me exactly what happened honestly how is people supposed to believe this?

>>68363086
social media generation can't afford lawyers

>>68362762
I pick the hat man's side :^)

>>68363108
Well bring it fgt, make a court case, and then see Gira go free. Everyone will realize that she is full of shit. Amirite?

>>68363086
>durr anon you always have to believe women when they claim they were raped, women never lie about rape, especially not mentally unstable ones
>proof and presumption of innocence are just what the patriarchy uses to get away with rape

>>68363141
nah rather just get my journalist friends to write articles :)

>>68362018
They fell off real quick. R.I.P.

>>68363152
Both Gira and her are speaking in riddles about it. Like "oh we were on fire and water and the wind of the earth we were feeling and we just have to preservere.." kind of stuff. No, if this is a rape charge we are talking about, all the details has to be on the table. They could be saving the smaller details for a later, but until then it is unfair for her to accuse him of this without the proper evidence.

>>68363280
>No, if this is a rape charge we are talking about, all the details has to be on the table.
I don't think you know how emotional abuse and slut shaming works
>without the proper evidence.
Oh are you a cop?

>>68363309
Just be quiet kid, let the adults talk about this.

>>68363333
>non argument

OK but remember there is a 92% chance he raped.

>>68363365
>92% chance he raped
not the anon you responded to but stfu.

>>68362018
I don't listen to swans. Seriously, what is up with this guy in the pic.

>>68363309
>slut shaming
>both parties are over the age of 30 and barely use the internet
fuck off sasha

>>68363365
No I am pretty sure there is 0% evidence that supports that he raped, you can remember that.

>>68363365
there's a 92% chance you've raped somebody

>>68363387
>public opinion what's that?
>>68363396
Oh do you have access to the police report?
>>68363380
Just be quiet kid, let the adults talk about this.

>>68363408
Not really, there was no accusations.

Nice try though

>>68363436
I'm accusing you of raping me

>>68363447
Show me the police report.

>>68363415
>Just be quiet kid, let the adults talk about this.

non-argument

DUDE MUSIC LMAO

Anyone else going to see them in Glasgow tomorrow?

>>68363461
I don't need to . there's a 92% chance you did

>>68363415
presently the public opinion doesn't judge the victim, they judge the presumed rapist, even if it turns out he wasn't a rapist after all
if there was actually a coherent and strong case against Gira his career would be ruined, but as it stands everyone's just moved on

Michael "Flex Your Muscles Kill All Muzzles" Gira

>>68362823
>She

>>68363471
Neither was what I was replying to
>>68363483
>I don't need to
Of course you do, that's part of the statistic.

Also note there is no opportunity because we are both posting anonymously on the internet. Your logic doesn't really work
>>68363500
>presently the public opinion doesn't judge the victim
Oh did you not read the thread (or any on /mu/ since this incident occurred)?

>>68363461
sounds like something a rapist would say

>>68363532
Anecdotal evidence

>>68363528
I know you in real life you fucking rapist
soon as you get a good paying job. im gonna tell EVERYBODY

>>68363555
>I know you in real life you fucking rapist
No you don't. You are just making your argument look weak. Just stop

>>68363592
but I do and trust me. soon as that nice new job comes around. i'll be waiting to end your career rapist :)

>>68363592
lmao were you born yesterday or some shit. or are you just female?

>>68363528
>Your logic doesn't really work
wow, so now you're calling miss Anon crazy?
slut shaming much?

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>>68362018
>“As I opened my eyes, he said, ‘Uh, this doesn’t feel right,’ and he pulled out.”

>>68363645
lol that would be funny, but hmm I been imagining it as them starting to make out.

>>68363658
>rape is funny

>>68363689
Its funny as a (made up) situation

>>68363689
>thing can't be made fun of

>>68363704
There's only an 8% chance it was made-up
>>68363717
If you are a decent human being, yes.

>>68363732
shut up rapist

>>68363732
I wish I could go in a time machine to a time before you learned about that "92%" statistic.

>>68363689
>murder can be funny
>disease
>torture can be funny
>rape can't be funny
it's called a dark sense of humor, and the only people any longer offended by it are prudish religious housewives in their 50s

>>68363772
Have you or someone you ever loved been raped before?

>>68363732
anon raped me, there's 92% probability

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>>68363689

this article is stupid. people arent not seeing Swans because of the accusations. anyone who bothered to do their research realized that what likely happened was miscommunication leading to attempted non-consensual sex, not rape in the typical sense of the word - in other words, they were laying in bed, he stuck his dick in her, and she freaked out and he stopped. still technically rape, but not "rape" as we tend to think of it.

and anyways, i was at their Denver show, there were tons of people there. maybe not completely sold out, but certainly filled with a lot of people

>>68363799
Doesn't apply unless it was reported.

Sorry

>>68363782
have you or someone you ever loved been murdered before? or tortured? or died of a disease? or died in 9/11?
whoops, I guess dark humour can be hurtful. tough luck.

>>68363823
Oh and did Larkin even get a official police report made?

>>68363822
>in other words, they were laying in bed, he stuck his dick in her, and she freaked out and he stopped
That is literally rape.
>>68363830
Ooops you didn't answer my question. Try again?

>>68363843
You mean the one that wouldn't be common knowledge and released because of the celebrity status?

>>68363849
i never said it wasn't. but it's a hell of a lot different than pinning someone down and fucking them while they cry and hit you and tell you to stop.

>>68363880
Not relevant

>>68363782
Have you ever been falsely accused of rape? Shit's fucked up, but I mean he's a white male right? They can't experience hardship. Ya cunt.

>>68363849
not an argument rapist

>>68363891
totally relevant. many rapists are monsters. Gira is not.

ITT: some troll keeps repeating not an argument everytime he/she gets btfo
yawn

>>68363936
not an argument rapist

>>68363891
>Have you ever been falsely accused of rape?
I have never been accused of rape before
>Shit's fucked up, but I mean he's a white male right? They can't experience hardship
Oh that's right, I forget about white privilege. Thanks for bringing it up!
>>68363909
Why not?
>>68363921
>only I can choose who is or is not a monster even though I'm not a victim
>>68363936
>if I pretend he gets btfo I'm sure the echo chamber here will make it true
Talk about non argument.

>>68363849
>you didn't answer my question
because it was irrelevant. two of my close family members died of cancer, this does not mean that I find cancer humour offensive or think it's morally wrong, even though I don't enjoy it
look, if you or someone you love got raped, I'm sorry. but going all censorship mode just because of your personal trauma is not the right choice.

>>68363900
>he's a white male right? They can't experience hardship.
Do you honestly believe this?

>>68363975
Nah. Sarcasm familam.

>>68363954
not an argument

>>68363954
>white privilege
>in the context of rape
fuck it, I'm done

Wow. Having a loved one get raped turns you into a fucking asshole if this guy is to be believed

>>68363954
>only I can choose who is or is not a monster even though I'm not a victim

I never said that, don't put words in my mouth. We are all capable of judging someone's character. If you're going to sit there and make the argument that Michael Gira is a monster, do it.

>>68364028
not an argument

>>68363963
>because it was irrelevant
How so?
>this does not mean that I find cancer humour offensive
That's fine. I guess you missed my point about being a decent human being. I never stated you needed to be one.
>look, if you or someone you love got raped, I'm sorry
Prove it.

Also
>you disagree with me? That's censorship!
Oh is this the alt-right I'm speaking to?
>>68363993
Why not?
>>68363996
You should probably stick around and learn what is or is not rape beaus you might get into some trouble on your campus in the near future.
>>68364028
>I never said that
Of course you implied. It's ok that you pick and choose was is or is not rape depending if you like the perp or not or how much you like slut shaming. But just be honest what you are doing.

>>68364050
how do even prove that you're sorry

>>68364073
Literally not my problem. Don't make poor arguments in the first place.

>>68364050
>Of course you implied.

I didn't imply it either, but you are free to interpret my words however you want.

>It's ok that you pick and choose was is or is not rape depending if you like the perp or not or how much you like slut shaming.

I literally agree with you that what he did constitutes rape. I'm also saying it's important to understand why and how it's rape, and how that makes it different from other kinds of rape.

I don't equate with Gira did with forcible violent rape with statutory rape. All three are different kinds of rape, and as such I would judge a violent rapist different than a statutory rapist different from Michael Gira.

last, please don't accuse me of slut shaming. you don't know me, or my personal beliefs. we likely agree on a lot of things - specifically, that slut-shaming (which I haven't done) is a terrible thing.

>>68364050
Eh no, if something has an amusing quality to it, then people would have the ability to laugh at it, I mean do they find it objectively funny? Yes, do they have to go to a rape victims house and then laugh out loud about what happened in front of the victim? No.

>>68364050
not an argument

>>68364050
>That's fine. I guess you missed my point about being a decent human being. I never stated you needed to be one.
I, like most people, actually possess the capacity to uderstand when someone tries to offend me, and when someone just makes a joke that brings up some bad memories in me.
You sound like a person with severe mental issues.

boring

He's been to jail before
hell be fine

>>68364157
Oh yeah I totally forgot about his F'ed up young adulthood

>>68364118
You're responding reasonably to some who is either a troll, completely irrational, or likely both.
I wouldn't waste the energy senpai.

I mean anyone who thinks that "oh I thought we had something going here I'll stop immediately" and "I know that you don't want this and I won't stop" are the same thing doesn't deserve any attention at all.

>>68364118
>I didn't imply it either
You mean picking and choosing who a monster is or is not, even if they all rape, isn't?
>it different from other kinds of rape.
Not really. Rape is rape.
>last, please don't accuse me of slut shaming. you don't know me, or my personal beliefs
OK fair enough.
>>68364141
>>68364143
>it's OK to laugh at people behind their back
>>68364142
Why not?
>>68364143
>You sound like a person with severe mental issues.
Said the Swansfan?

>>68364197
>You mean picking and choosing who a monster is or is not, even if they all rape, isn't?

Funny, you seem to be picking and choosing as well.

>Not really. Rape is rape.

Shit, you're right. Next time I'll be sure to judge that 18 year old with a 16 year old girlfriend exactly the same as that serial rapist who forced himself on an 85 year old. They are both exactly the same.

how come when I tried to make a b8 thread like this a while ago it got deleted

>>68364197
OK so I could be laughing while watching looney tunes and then years later, someone really gets hit hard over the head with an overlarge stop sign, oh no I am totally a piece of shit now?

>>68364230
>Next time I'll be sure to judge that 18 year old with a 16 year old girlfriend exactly the same as that serial rapist who forced himself on an 85 year old.
Oh they put their dick in them when they're drunk and sleeping, unwanted?
>>68364265
>and then years later

>>68364293
hey one question how much direct harm to Larkin do you think was caused by mikey g's wiwi?

im not anyone you're replying to btw

>>68364262
You timed it wrong or the bait was too obvious. I can't say for sure because I didn't see the thread. This guy timed it just right.

>>68364293
>Oh they put their dick in them when they're drunk and sleeping, unwanted?

Is putting you're dick in someone while they're drunk (she never said she was sleeping) - then taking it out when she says stop - fundamentally the same as breaking into an 85 year old woman's home and forcing yourself on her, or hiding in the woods, attacking a woman jogging on a bike path, and violently raping them? How the fuck can you honestly sit there and say these things are all exactly the same?

>>68364337
>hey one question how much direct harm to Larkin do you think was caused by mikey g's wiwi?
Probably a lot of emotional damage if she was so afraid to come out with this for 8 years. he's also an imposing figure, physically and musically. I would be afraid of him as well.
>>68364373
Both are examples of rape

>>68364471
>Both are examples of rape
>trying to say they're just as bad as each other without coming out and saying it because you know how retarded that would make you seem
c'mon son

>>68364502
>>68364471
I think one would be rape, while the more violent one could have more charges attached to it.

>>68364502
>what is a loaded question?
c'mon son

>>68364471
>Both are examples of rape

Right, and one is much worse than the other, which leads me back to my original point, which I will rephrase for you here kindly: in my opinion, Michael Gira is not a bad person. You may disagree. That's fine. But don't use the argument "rape is rape" when I've already successfully made the unrefuted counter argument that there are different kinds of rape and as such different kinds of rapists - ergo, it's completely possible to be a "rapist" but not actually be a bad person (you yourself admitted that certain kinds of statutory rape aren't as bad as violent rapes, by deflecting here >>68364293 when I showed you the flaw in that kind of logic).

>>68364545
I'm not that dude but it's not a loaded question at all.
If you really have trouble coming out and saying that violent rape is worse than a misunderstanding that ended abruptly then I think you need to reevaluate how you think about things.
The dude already agreed what he did was rape so what possible purpose do you have for being intentionally obtuse?

>>68364572
>Right, and one is much worse than the other
That's because one is rape, the other is rape + assault.

It's a loaded question
>>68364602
See above.

>>68363732
>If you are a decent human being, yes.
more like autistic in-his-own-reality human being

>implying Swans fans aren't all edgy teens
>implying the rape, if it is true, doesn't make Gira even more badass

>>68364620
>It's a loaded question

It's not loaded. It's an example of a different kind of rape. Take the assault out, forcing yourself on someone and raping them until you finish is fundamentally different from sticking your dick in thinking its consensual and then stopping when you realize it isn't.

>>68364662
A lack of human empathy is a sign of autism

>>68364721
>It's an example of a different kind of rape
No, it's the same rape (unconsensual sex) but the later has more charges (assault, kidnapping, etc).

>>68364756
So if I fuck my girlfriend while she cries and tells me to stop, and I refuse to listen to her - mind you, I didn't assault or kidnap her - is the same as what Gira did? That's what you're telling me?

>>68364721
If yeah there you go, it was an accident/ misunderstanding. Can't keep the same charge on a person then.

Is accidental rape charge a thing though?

>>68364790
Did you read the accusations again Gira? That should answer your question if you don't know what he is accused of.

>>68364792
>Is accidental rape charge a thing though?

Maybe not legally, but in this case, sure. He attempted non-consensual sex that he thought was consensual. When he realized it wasn't consensual, he stopped. Obviously non-consensual sex is rape by definition, but it doesn't make him a bad dude. Just ignorant of rape and consent.

>>68364837
>I told him, slurred, half asleep, that he could sleep in the bed, just not to touch me. A little bit later I woke up with his penis inside me, no condom. As I opened my eyes, he said, “Uh, this doesn’t feel right.” and he pulled out.

That's one half the story. Let's hear the other half:

>Larkin Grimm and I headed towards a consensual romantic moment that fortunately was not consummated. As she wrote in her recent social media postings about that night, I said to her, "this doesn't feel right," and abruptly but completely our only intimate encounter ended. It was an awkward mistake.

So, as I said, it sounds like a miscommunication - Gira thought it was consensual, Larkin didn't, when he realized it, he stopped. Again - is this fundamentally the same as pinning someone down and having sex with them while they cry and tell you to stop, even if you haven't assaulted or kidnapped them?

>>68364933
>So, as I said, it sounds like a miscommunication - Gira thought it was consensual, Larkin didn't, when he realized it, he stopped. Again - is this fundamentally the same as pinning someone down and having sex with them while they cry and tell you to stop, even if you haven't assaulted or kidnapped them?
Why are you assuming only one party's account is correct?

>>68364933
If he knew to not have sex with her while she was intoxicated then it was rape, people cant even give permission while intoxicated. But if he didn't know, then I don't know, then maybe there is no charge ?

But is it even rape if his dick was only in there for a moment and he wasn't thrusting? (How did he get his dick in there so fast? She must have a large stretched out vagina)

who the fuck cares about sasha geffen

>mtv
>news

>>68365020
>Why are you assuming only one party's account is correct?

I'm assuming they're both correct. I didn't say she's lying. I didn't say he's lying. She said it was nonconsensual, he said it was consensual. To me, it just sounds like an instance of miscommunication.

> people cant even give permission while intoxicated

Damn well in that case I must call my girlfriend to inform her that we've drunkenly raped each other dozens of times.

>But is it even rape if his dick was only in there for a moment and he wasn't thrusting?

That's what I'm saying. The fact that he stopped means that, okay, he technically attempted non-consensual sex, i.e. rape, but I don't consider him a terrible person as I would other rapists because of it. Context is important.

>>68365122
last two greentexts are meant for >>68365051

Reminder Larkin literally has borderline personality disorder

If youve ever spoken to an alt girl with BPD you know what I'm talking about

>>68365122
Damn well in that case I must call my girlfriend to inform her that we've drunkenly raped each other dozens of times.
>But you did though ????

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>>68365076
She a qt
>>68365122
>I'm assuming they're both correct.
No you're not. You assume it was consensual, which contradicts Larkin. You can't have it both ways.
>Damn well in that case I must call my girlfriend to inform her that we've drunkenly raped each other dozens of times
Wow what a monster

>>68365156
???

I'm saying we've fucked while drunk or high plenty of times. Every single time it's consensual. Please try to keep up.

>>68365156
* Green textArrow in the wrong spot

>>68365172
No that's technically still rape asshole.

>>68365167
>No you're not. You assume it was consensual, which contradicts Larkin. You can't have it both ways.

What the fuck are you reading? I never said it was consensual. I said Gira thought it was. I said Grimm thought it wasn't. I state several times through this thread that he attempted non-consensual sex. Stop acting like such a fucking retard.

>Wow what a monster

lol, ikr

>>68365144
>alt girl
like... a side chick?

>>68365192
haha, okay then.

who's raping who? am i getting raped when she's on top of me fucking me? what if I'm drunk but she isn't?

>>68365193
>. I said Gira thought it was. I said Grimm thought it wasn't. I state several times through this thread that he attempted non-consensual sex.
If I stole some Vicodin from a pharmacy and told the judge "Oh I thought it was free!" what do you think will happen?

Ignorance of the law is not a defense.

>>68365144
What emotional problems does Gira have?

PRO-TIP: be sure to listen to his music before you answer.

>>68365215
She could make a court case saying that you raped her just because she was intoxicated at the time

>>68365220
>If I stole some Vicodin from a pharmacy and told the judge "Oh I thought it was free!" what do you think will happen?

Since when are we talking about the legal repercussions of what happened? Please stop moving the goalposts. I already told you to stop acting like a fucking retard, and I hate repeating myself. But please - stop acting like a fucking retard.

>>68365247
autism

>>68365275
in some states, maybe. doesn't mean it makes any sense. we literally ask each other "do you want to fuck" all the time before we have sex. most of the time, actually. we're both pretty into consent.

>>68365282
>Since when are we talking about the legal repercussions of what happened?
Oh aren't you talking about how you view someone who committed a crime? Aren't you excusing a crime as "a misunderstanding"?
>I already told you to stop acting like a fucking retard, and I hate repeating myself. But please - stop acting like a fucking retard.
Wow calm down. Do you usually spew insults at people who disagree with your worldview? You don't seem emotionally stable. I could understand why'd you want to just justify rape.

>>68365313
You're a rapist. You took advantage of a girl who was intoxicated.

>>68364197
not an argument

>>68365483
That's because it's a rebuttal to a rebuttal of my argument.

>>68365282
not an argument

>>68362018
TGM didn't get the pitchfork hype TBK did, the crowd this round was a lot more respectful than TBK round at my show. All the plebs have been filtered out and thank god. The TBK tour was full of idiots who wouldn't stop moshing and letting out their faux aggression.

>>68365499
not an argument

>>68365431
>Oh aren't you talking about how you view someone who committed a crime?

Er...yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.

>Aren't you excusing a crime as "a misunderstanding"?

That's one way to put it I guess. I'd prefer "attempting to seek understanding" and finding that what really happened was, yes, a miscommunication.

>Wow calm down. Do you usually spew insults at people who disagree with your worldview?

No, I call retards who act like retards, retards.

>You don't seem emotionally stable

Shit ur right, forgot for a sec that 4chan was supposed to be a place for respectful and pleasant discussion. My b

>I could understand why'd you want to just justify rape.

When did I justify anything? Please. I beg of you. Stop acting like a retard. I know you're not *really* this retarded. Please read my posts before responding.

>>68365481

no u

>>68365557
That's offensive to retarded people.

>>68365557
>That's one way to put it I guess. I'd prefer "attempting to seek understanding" and finding that what really happened was, yes, a miscommunication.
OK but ignorance is not an excuse. He should have known better to but is willy in her who-ha without the OK first
>I call retards who act like retards, retards.
Sorry to hear you have low self esteem
>Shit ur right, forgot for a sec that 4chan was supposed to be a place for respectful and pleasant discussion. My b
Then stop posting anytime.
>When did I justify anything? Please. I beg of you
"well some rape is worse than others..."

>>68365638
>OK but ignorance is not an excuse.

No, but it does help to understand who is and isn't a monster.

>He should have known better to but is willy in her who-ha without the OK first

I agree. Doesn't make him a bad guy though.

>Sorry to hear you have low self esteem

That's exactly what a retard would say.

>Then stop posting anytime.

No you

>"well some rape is worse than others..."

Right. Some rape is worse than others. If you take this as a justification of rape, rather than a nuanced understanding of rape, what it is and how it works, that's your fault, not mine.

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>>68362018
>ywn be Michael Giras rape slave

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It can't be rape unless she lives with her father or husband.

>>68365733
This, the writer of the article is clearly islamophobic.

>>68365698
>rather than a nuanced understanding of rape
Which you don't have, based on your posts.

Didn't you watch that rape video when you started college?

>>68365779
>Which you don't have, based on your posts.

Says the person that equated what Gira did to a a serial rapist forcing themselves on an elderly lady

>Didn't you watch that rape video when you started college?


Not sure what "that rape video" is, but I'm entirely not surprised that I'm talking with an 18 year old. get back to class.

>>68365922
>Says the person that equated what Gira did to a a serial rapist forcing themselves on an elderly lady
Quote me where I did this
>Not sure what "that rape video" is
I'm not entirely surprised that I'm talking to a high schooler. get back to class.

>>68365960
>Quote me where I did this

Unless you jumped in halfway and I'm mixing you up with the other retard in this thread, >>68364471


>I'm not entirely surprised that I'm talking to a high schooler. get back to class.

hyuk hyuk hyuk. I take shits bigger than you.

Here's how the criminal justice system works:
X=accuser
Y=accused
P=police

X goes to P and tells P that Y did something bad. P launches an investigation into what happened. If they need to, they can arrest and detain Y if they have PROBABLE CAUSE and question him/her (and Y can refuse to talk, citing the Fifth Amendment and/or get a lawyer). From there, Y will be sent to an arraignment with a grand jury (a collection of citizens numbering around 15-25), who decide if there is indeed PROBABLR CAUSE to indict (in-DITE) Y; in other words, they formally charge Y with the crime.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN Y IS ASSUMED TO BE GUILTY. THIS MEANS THAT A JURY OF Y'S PEERS BELIEVE HE/SHE HAD REASON TO COMMIT THE CRIME.

From then, Y is sent to criminal court, where the prosecution (X's side) has to prove to all 12 members of a petit jury of Y's peers BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that Y committed the crime he/she was accused of using only concrete evidence that was obtained without infringing upon Y's Constitutional rights.

REASONABLE DOUBT is an exponentially higher standard of proof than PROBABLE CAUSE.

If Y is indeed convicted, he/she is the given a sentence, decided either by the judge or the jury (it depends on the jurisdiction). Y can appeal the ruling to a higher court (hypothetically) all the way up to the Supreme Court (it usually would stop at the U.S. Federal Appeals Court), provided a lower court doesn't refuse to hear the case or overturn the ruling first.

The criminal justice system is purposely rigged against the prosecution, because to send an innocent person to jail is inconceivably worse than letting any number of guilty people go free.

conspiracy theory time: the person posting in this thread about rape is either a strawman or one of those people who gets paid to sow dissent on forums for revenue.

>>68365989
I know right there was like two people who ended up having the same comment structure

>>68365989
>Unless you jumped in halfway and I'm mixing you up with the other retard in this thread, >>68364471 (You)
Not seeing where I said anything about an elderly lady. Try again?
>I take shits bigger than you.
Go to bed Curly

>>68362018
>Sasha Geffen
who?

>is michael "raping a slave" gira going to jail?
i doubt there's any proof of this imaginary crime

>>68366017

Im 90% sure someone in this thread doesn't believe half the bullshit they're spouting

>>68366080
92%

>>68365960
see >>68366012 for the reasoning as to why I personally don't believe Larkin Grimm

Also it's entirely possible that the other anon could be out of college and not have gotten to see the rape video. For the record, I do believe that if a sober person knowingly has sex with a person who is clearly inebriated, that is indeed rape (if they're both drunk it's a different story, which is what I believe happened in the Gira/Grimm incident).

>>68366012
SJWs don't understand how the law works, they parrot feelgood liberal platitudes about things which are actually destructive to the basic framework of justice as a whole.

They are morally ignorant of what they are actually crusading for.

>>68366126
>as to why I personally don't believe Larkin Grimm
There is an 92% she is telling the truth. There are problems with the criminal justice system

>>68366313
I admit I skipped the plea bargaining part, but I didn't want to run out of lines and we're talking about a hypothetical situation in which the defendant wants to fight the charges.

But yeah, there is a startling movement by both liberals and conservatives (more so by the left) to abandon this to feel "safe". It's saddening and frightening at the same time.

>>68366313
Alt-righters fail to understand the inherent bias in how the law works, they parrot unempathetic conservative platitudes about things which are actually destructive to the basic framework of fairness as a whole.

They are morally ignorant of what they are actually crusading for.

>>68366392
>Alt-righters
Stop, you're making yourself look like an idiot.

Alt-righters are ignorant of everything, and they don't have morals to crusade for. They don't even have a pretense of upholding justice at all.

>>68366352
>There are problems with the criminal justice system
Well no shit, but the problems arise as a result of bad and ill-intentioned laws, as well as politicians who want to be seen as "tough on crime". America has 1% of the world's population, yet 25% of all incarcerated people in the world are American citizens, and you want to lower the standard of proof to put even more people in prison.

I'm ignoring the 92% statistic until you provide me with peer-reviewed empirical evidence to prove it.

Hey boyos what's going on give me a tldr

>>68366461
A person who doesn't know how the CJS works or what it's problems are is using an uncited statistic to get us to think Mikey G should be in prison.

Have most of you actually read the whole thing? It's surprisingly neutral.

>>68363475
I am!

>>68366461
>>68366558
>a person
it's Larkin

>>68366558
Oh hey, I remember that retard used to spam Swans threads back when the rape accusation first came out. No matter what you said to him he would always respond with "MUH STATISTICS! FALSE RAPE ACCUSATIONS ARE SUPER RARE SO GIRA MUST BE GUILTY!"

>>68366449
>It's not ok to use the term al-righters
>but it's OK to use the term SJW
Stop and kys
>>68366450
>I'm ignoring the 92% statistic until you provide me with peer-reviewed empirical evidence to prove it.
Give me 40 instances of a peer-reviewd empirical evidence of FBI statistics
>>68366652
It's literally not my fault Swanfas are delusional

>>68362843
Oh shit you're right. She's got them dsl.

>>68366676
Okay the numbers are slightly off, but it's still an obvious and outrageous disparity.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/15/jim-webb/webb-says-us-has-5-percent-worlds-population-25-pe/

Where's your proof?

>>68363528
>Neither was what I was replying to
Neither was what I was replying to

>>68366726
Non sequitur

What do you want exactly?

>>68366676
>It's literally not my fault Swanfas are delusional
Swans fans are being reasonable, not delusional. Innocent until proven guilty. You're no better than the fanatical Swans fans who say "GIRA IS DEFINITELY INNOCENT! LARKIN IS LYING!"

>>68366676
>It's not ok to use the term al-righters
>but it's OK to use the term SJW
What? SJWs are an actual thing, and not everyone who dislikes them is an alt-righter.

I'm an actual liberal. I dislike SJWs because they are floundering, uninformed, morons fresh out of university that think their ignorant opinions on matters they are clueless about represent progressive causes. They are a burden on us as a whole.

>>68366834
Prove the 92% statistic. That's all I ask.

>>68366928
>Prove the 92% statistic. That's all I ask.
It can't be proven because it's meaningless and the reiteration of it is out of nothing short of simple misinterpretation of how the statistics work or even what is actually being measured.

>>68366857
>OBVIOUSLY LARKIN IS A LYING SLUT
>reasonable
>>68366881
>SJWs are an actual thing
As are alt-righters.
>I dislike SJWs because they are floundering, uninformed, morons fresh out of university that think their ignorant opinions on matters they are clueless about represent progressive causes.
Who are you talking about exactly?
>>68366928
Are you asking to *prove* a statistic or just a source of that statistic?

>>68366976
There is about a 2% chance you actually believe or care about any of this

>>68367012
Prove it.

>>68366976
>Who are you talking about exactly?
Literally these kids that jump on this moral bandwagoning, that is what "SJWs" are, it's a term for groupthinkers. They are children without the capacity for critical thinking, or even a sufficient level of knowledge in the subjects they are discussing, nor are they willing to cite any sources.

For instance this thread, is evidence of it. These people have no practical knowledge of the law because they don't study law, and they don't even know basic things that every citizen should know, like what the Constitution says and what it doesn't say, or why it says that, or what the intellectual basis for it is.

>>68367012
From the amount of times
>Not an argument
Shows up in the search there should be 0%

This was bready guud bait

>>68366976
Give me the source.

>>68366097
Is that a meme or is there actual proof she got raped, I read what they said and it sounds like sexual harassment at worst, which is still obviously bad but shouldn't be presented as rape

>>68367097
>Literally these kids that
No I mean specifically. Not some generality about spooks, but who exactly.
>These people have no practical knowledge of the law because they don't study law
How do you know? They are strangers posting anonymously
>>68367123
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1996/96sec2.pdf
>>68367156
>Is that a meme
Read above.
>which is still obviously bad but shouldn't be presented as rape
When did I say he was guilty?

>>68366976
>>OBVIOUSLY LARKIN IS A LYING SLUT
>>reasonable
Ayy, nice strawman. A ton of Swans fans are neutral on this issue. If you had read the rest of my post you would see I condemned the ones who say "OBVIOUSLY LARKIN IS A LYING SLUT!"

>>68367184
>1996
What page can I find the statistic on?

>>68367184
>https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/1996/96sec2.pdf
>1996
lmao
m
a
o
>>68367217
24

Didn't they already announce that this years album is the last release of this reunion?

>>68362645
why would she go after an underground band like Swans for publicity instead of Mick Jagger or James Iha or some shit

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>>68362018
this guy is a fuckin amateur
in my country, rockers rape & punche to death hoes

>>68367319
Because she actually had contact and association with Swans unlike other more famous acts
Are u dumb?

Not saying whether she's lying or not but throwing the accusation at Jagger when she has had no association with him or the Stones would make no sense.

>>68367319
Accusing rich people can horribly backfire. If they get really pissed off by your accusations they might hire a great lawyer and destroy your life in court. If you accuse the little indie musician there's barely any risk of getting destroyed in court.

>>68367199
>Ayy, nice strawman
Incorrect. In this thread alone see >>68362645 >>68362660 >>68362744 >>68362823 >>68362843 >>68363521 and feel free to check the archive. 200 posts of people slut shaming her.
Then there's the Pole who laugh at rape and then make ironic posts about Gira that imply negative things about Larkin.
>I condemned the ones who say "OBVIOUSLY LARKIN IS A LYING SLUT!"
Prove it.

>>68362823
I think Gira is above sticking his dick in that thing.

>>68367360
>Incorrect. In this thread alone see >>68362645 >>68362660 >>68362744 >>68362823 >>68362843 >>68363521 and feel free to check the archive. 200 posts of people slut shaming her.
There are also countless posts of people taking a neutral stance on the issue. You really need to get your autism checked.
>Prove it.
Top kek, what? I said
>You're no better than the fanatical Swans fans who say "GIRA IS DEFINITELY INNOCENT! LARKIN IS LYING!"
What I said very clearly implies that fanatical Swans fans who say "GIRA IS DEFINITELY INNOCENT! LARKIN IS LYING!" are bad.

>>68367457
>There are also countless posts of people taking a neutral stance on the issue
Incorrect. Since we anonymous, those neutral people could easily be the aforementioned posters. The way around this is to disregard neutral posts altogether.
>What I said very clearly implies that fanatical Swans fans who say "GIRA IS DEFINITELY INNOCENT! LARKIN IS LYING!" are bad.
What are you going to do about it?

>>68367505
You gotta be way less obvious if you want to keep string people along senpai

>>68367505
>Incorrect. Since we anonymous, those neutral people could easily be the aforementioned posters. The way around this is to disregard neutral posts altogether.
By that logic, the "slut shaming" posts could easily be the neutral posters and or the posters who defend Larkin. The way around this is to disregard all posts altogether.
>What are you going to do about it?
Nothing. This is an anonymous imageboard where people shitpost. Do you seriously expect me to start some crusade against shitposters?

>>68367538
*keep stringing

>>68367543
>the "slut shaming" posts could easily be the neutral posters and or the posters who defend Larkin
Why would they do that? That is not reasonable logic. Sorry
>Nothing
If you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. You are no better than a slut-shamer
>>68367538
What do you mean?

>>68367632
>What do you mean?
I mean stop shitposting
Last (you) from me. Hope you savor it.

>>68367679
>if I don't agree with you, you are shitposting!
You gotta be way less obvious if you want to keep string people along senpai

Dude's a feminist, his lyrics have conveyed this since the early stuff. The man who wrote Fan letter is probably not someone who hates women. The man who let Volcano onto their record probably doesn't hate women. The man who wrote When Will I Return, one of the most powerful songs ever written about surviving rape, to help his wife cope with a rape she suffered years ago, but still remembers is probably not a rapist.
His persona is this scary pscyopath to help sell albums, that's clearly not who he also is. The worst he's done was when he was

Neither his current wife OR his ex-wife from when this happened who knew about this and was supposedly told by larkin believes this, nor anyone who knew Gira personally.
Even with Larkin's description, at best it's a sloppy night where they were both drunk off their ass and they misunderstood queues from each other.
Funny how this was dropped at the height of their fame too...

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DO NOT SUPPORT SWANS OR ANY PROJECT LED BY MICHAEL GIRA! HE IS A RAPIST! HE IS A HORRIBLE MAN!

also please check out my new album with a song about how traumatic rape is!

>>68367859
Ironic slut shaming is still slut shaming

>>68367963
How is that slut shaming?

>>68367371
Have you seen his wives?

>>68367457
Did you miss the fact that this whole thing was just a weird awkward evening where both of them were so drunk neither could give consent, that really should have been swept under the rug and forgotten? Not dragged up on a fucking Facebook post as if that is any way to make an allegation like this...
Why else do you think she brought it up?

>>68368012
>How is that slut shaming?
See: ironic

Also
>rape should just be swept under the rug
Terrible alt-righter thinking

>>68368012
>Have you seen his wives?
Low blow, Low blow.

>>68368125
Really.
When if Gira had been a woman we'd be confusing this a lot more, wouldn't it? :^)
Besides, you're defending a woman who well... is pretty mental, even moreso than Gira.

>>68368159
>When if Gira had been a woman we'd be confusing this a lot more, wouldn't it?
Correct.
>you're defending a woman who well... is pretty mental
Already covered this, see >>68365247

>>68368145
The point was they've all been hot and she's not

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>>68368210

>>>>68365247

>PRO-TIP: be sure to listen to his music before you answer.
Are you trolling me?

>>68368225
Oh have you never heard Swans before?

>>68368214
Jennifer kinda looks like an alien my man

>>68368270
>He genuinely believes Gira is a shitty person off the music he makes and the persona he created so his music sold better
Do you also believe Marilyn Manson was the Antichrist? Or Slipknot are all hillbilly serial killers? Or that Steeley Dan really have experienced the sleazy, dangerous side of life?

>68367837
>"Dude's a feminist, his lyrics have conveyed this since the early stuff. The man who wrote Fan letter is probably not someone who hates women. The man who let Volcano onto their record probably doesn't hate women. The man who wrote When Will I Return, one of the most powerful songs ever written about surviving rape, to help his wife cope with a rape she suffered years ago, but still remembers is probably not a rapist.
His persona is this scary pscyopath to help sell albums, that's clearly not who he is. "

>>68368321
>He genuinely believes Gira is a shitty
Quote me where I said that

Nice strawman though
>His persona is this scary pscyopath to help sell albums, that's clearly not who he is.
It's interesting that you won't apply this (faulty) logic to Larkin.

>>68368424
I have never listened to Larkin nor would I have any reason to.
I have read her interviews and that's it.

Didn't Larkin have a history of accusing people of rape?
Didn't she accuse him when he dropped her from his label?
Didn't she use the rape thing to push her album and merch?
Didn't even Gira's ex-wife, somebody with no reason to defend him, say that Larkin was nuts and threatened them with rape claims and stuff like that?
Doesn't she have like mentally unstable behavior or something?

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, but just cause somebody says something doesn't make it true. People believe what they want to believe and these days accusing somebody of rape is an easy way to ruin their lives

>>68368453
Nice bias
>>68368600
>but just cause somebody says something doesn't make it true
Kind of like all the things you just said?

>>68368791
>Kind of like all the things you just said?
Yeah, that's why I said correct me if I'm wrong

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Congratulations boys, this is one of the FUCKING worst threads I've ever seen in my life. Keep it up!

Good thing he's taking a break then. Pretty sure he'll sell out again when he makes a comeback with the new iteration of his band.

>>68362018

Eh I'm pretty neutral on it.

For what it's worth, I know people in NY that know her and apparently she's batshit insane.

That combined with the lack of any legal proceedings on the matter makes me hard pressed to throw Gira under the bus. At the same time I won't rule it out completely.

But yeah it's not really like this is Ian Conner or Cosby or anything where you have scores of women coming out of the woodwork with accusations. It's one disgruntled former collaborator which has a history of erratic behavior.

>>68368915
Of you didn't know why post anti-Larkin questions? Why not, instead, post anti-Gira questions?

Examples of why this whole rhetoric is loaded
>>68368953
What are you personally doing to fight misogyny?

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>>68369121
Jesus, stop while you're ahead. You have an excellent baot thread going and you're fucking it up. Just quit.

>>68369121
>Examples of why this whole rhetoric is loaded
No shit its loaded, never said it wasn't, but I'm also open to criticism and corrections. I just didn't see anyone talk about the stuff I brought up,and if you're not going to address any of that the I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by pointing out stuff about my argument that's obvious or stated. Let's have a constructive dialogue instead of nitpicking