/comp/ - Composition General

Tell me /comp/,do you use an instrument, computer synth or your own voice while composing or are you one with the music already?

>>68258909

Most composers compose using a piano. After some years lf ear training you can also compose motifs by singing while having a clue about what you're doing.
Almost nobody compose using just paper and pen.

>>68259773
>Almost nobody compose using just paper and pen.
wtf, my life is a lie. I really thought experient composers could just come up with a motif on their heads, put it on paper immediately and write a whole symphony movement out of it effortlessly on the spot.

>>68258909
I can kinda work with pen and paper on a small scale, but despite my absolute pitch, I prefer to hear my wips. My absolute pitch doesn't tell me much about timbre and the resonance between instruments.

I know professionally trained church musicians are able to improvise on different forms (fughetto, clusters, Concerto, trio with cf in different voices etc.).

>>68258909
For me it's pen, paper and sometime my voice. Piano offer too much distractions for me too stay focus on the composition.

so, I'm gathering materials for the second part of the ear training stream. Are there any other examples of discrepancy in performance and notation besides the swung time (and the baroque french unequals notes), rubato and agogics?

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bumping with a fugato prelude for the Taize Kyrie. Of course the band couldn't play it cause
>omg I have to play my own voice??? Why can't I just hop onto the melody??

https://clyp.it/gk4kceyl

https://vid.me/ghlA

gnight bump with a lullaby improv.

>>68264026
fuck that site.

http://sendvid.com/etk9gt9d

>>68258909
I use my cello, my voice and either the piano or Finale's playback thing (depends on what I'm writing). Even if I don't use those, I'm not really one with the music, I'm just audiating, probably poorly. Lately, with how obsessed I've been with just intonation, and considering I'm writing a string trio, I've been avoiding the piano when composing.

Depending on how quiet the room is and how familiar I am with the instrument or ensemble in question, I can slowly audiate my way towards imagining a professional recording. With my cello it's effortless, with a violin or viola I need to recall the sound of them tuning each string, with something like a clarinet I've actually found sample videos to refer to. The whole affair probably wastes more time than I can afford to waste, but for things like what I'm writing right now, with a lot of voice crossing, the piano just can't recreate how low G3 sounds on the violin and how high C4 sounds on the cello.

>>68260660
A friend of mine is pretty much like that. He wrote a symphony over the Labor Day weekend.

Does anyone know of any challenging composition tasks? Possibly something you might have come across at university?

>>68266346
invent a new form that speaks to audiences of this time - never gets old

>>68266346
>>68266621

extrapolating a bit - understand that in every discipline students are thought things only to demosntrate what was done before and what that innovation was based on

the goal of everyone with a higher education is not to replicate the already known, but replicate the spirit and strive to improve on the current

maintaining the craftsmanship of performing music is of course important, but all the trained classical musicians will take care of that part under the guidance of the trained conductors...

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I have been absent from /comp/ for like a month, pls repost any wonderful compositions you may have posted in that month because I'd like to see them
Just finished (almost, I have to mix it) a rescore of a documentary scene, please critique
https://clyp.it/2y22lxo4
issues I'm aware of: 1. 0:48 has a very overpowering bass line. I will fix this in the mix but it was just a case of pianistic arrangement techniques not working well orchestrally (i.e. the major 7 in the bassline sounds great on piano but not so great like this)
2. piano part is impossible, yeah, I knew I was just going to sequence it and not record it
>>68260660
I think this is not the norm, but I imagine all great composers could do it. Prokofiev made a point to write his 1st symphony without a piano i believe.

>>68266346
This is a little exercise we were given. Choose two interval classes (m2/M7, M2/m7, m3/M6, M3/m6, P4/P5, A4/d5. Pick two of these six). You are only allowed to use the two you've chosen.

Interpret this however you like: only melodically (any harmonic intervals can be used), melodically and harmonically, melodically and harmonically except for composite harmonic intervals that come about as a result of adding multiple intervals, etc.

>>68268534
i'm gonna give this a shot and write a coral with just 4ths M2nds

You know, I come to realize that in some contexts during jazz soloing, you can sometimes even use notes out of the scales in a chromatic way, if you can phrase them nicely.

Is there a term for this?

>>68269520
chromaticism, which is very common and characteristic.
It's used in different ways depending on the style and the player.

For instance in straight ahead and bebop, chromaticism is usually passing and approaches.
In a more modern style, it can also be that, but can also be other things, such as harmonic superimposition

>>68269547

Yes I have noticed bebop guitarist like Pat Methany and Martino like to use this descending chromatic lick, the one rule I have is usually try not to land on the conflicting third, if the key is in minor, don't land on a major third. And if I land on an avoid note, try to resolve it quickly.

>>68269722
well I wouldn't call Metheny a bebop guitarist, but yeah. The best way to think of it is is not as chromatic "licks", but two focal points of the improvisation. Wherever you start, and wherever you end, and treat those like you'd treat melody notes (avoid avoid tones, don't have them be chromatic without purpose), and consider all the chromatic stuff in between them as connective tissue.

That's definitely how bebop players are thinking bout it, connecting chord tones with linearity, and it's how things like the bebop scale, the idea of enclosures, and shit like that became codified

>>68258909
Depends. Sometimes straight into the computer without any instrument, just enter with mouse / keyboard shortcuts to change editing tool.
Sometimes improvise a melody on an instrument then do straight into computer
Sometimes write at an instrument and score it out with pen and paper
Sometimes record myself singing or whistling a melody and then transcribe it, or play along very closely with MIDI keyboard, recording the output as score.
Sometimes purely into score without any instruments or computer or playback involved (usually for graphic scores or theoretical works)

This for example is improvised melody, and then completed on the computer: (cbf reuploading as clyp.it, please excuse the SC)
https://soundcloud.com/psllbof/fugue-in-a-latin-rhythm
Note that I record the MIDI keyboard for the opening melody, to give a more organic feel, then just enter notes with the mouse (not sticking to the grid though, to maintain some element of humanization)

And this is singing/recording then transcribing, gives a much more organic and natural feel to the melodies:
https://soundcloud.com/psllbof/anagrams-for-flute

>>68263353
not bad anon. good to see some fugues/fugatos coming up. Why not stick completely with organ? to hear individual parts better?

>>68266346
Most of what we got in composition class at university was pretty free form - write a solo piano piece, write a string quartet, write a piece for a transposing instrument, write a piece for childrens choir, write a piece for SATB choir, write a piece in sonata form.

We were allowed to write in our own style and marked on how well we maintained that style and our general writing capability, not making score errors, etc, moreso than creativity.

For a really good composition challenge, write a piece in correct 4 part harmony a la Bach, using florid species counterpoint and sticking to actual chords.

The ultimate challenge is to write a really good fugue!

>>68269383
Oh, forgot to mention P8s are always allowed, obviously.

>>68258803
>Kostka's been in the thread since last thread
I forgot to thank the person that did that

>>68272271
A bit soon, but I'm going to sleep so bump.

Do you all prefer composing software or good ole pencil and paper?

My prof doesn't even use stave paper, he draws the lines himself, without a ruler...he also shits on himself for not using a pen...

>>68272606
Pencil and paper is my preferred method, because I always have paper around to scrawl music on the back of.

>shits on himself for not using a pen...
That's going a bit too far there.

The goal for any notation system, at least in the composition stage, is to convey what's in your head as quickly as possible. Developing a shorthand is crucial. If I have no blank sheet music I simply use this easily sketchable notation I've developed over the years. I've been learning Finale quick entry for the same reason.

So I'm going to play for 20 minutes on the piano tomorrow.. And I'm planning to improvise over some jazz standards. Here's a recording of what I got for 20 minutes, it's probably going to be very different tomorrow but what do you think? https://clyp.it/hq2gm1di

What is it about the progression from VI6-i (I assume this would cover a d6 to a Emin or chord) that is so beautiful?

>>68260660

this is some weird shit that people think nowadays, afaik, Even Mozart would actually have a piano by him when he composed, this idea that he just wrote out a symphony without any corrections without a piano is false

will anyone ever compose a more breathtaking work of music?
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7geoTJNBBA

>>68273213
why do people post giant improvisations in these threads, keep it listenable. I stopped after the 2 minutes of intro didn't end

>>68274560

Erm.. Well Autumn Leaves starts at 3:37. It's not that I want to post giant improvisations, it's more like I'm playing a 20 minute set straight and I need to practice playing for 20 minutes, since I don't usually play that long.

>>68274560
yeah this is /comp/ not /improv/ post something you've spent a lot of time carefully writing. improv can generate the ideas, but you still have to compose it

I've just completed 2 year music program before summer and we were taught to compose just with pencil, paper, and our minds. We were allowed to use instruments, but we found that the people who used instruments shoehorned licks particular to their instrument which sounded stale and overused and "I've heard that a million times" while the inner-ear composers each sounded one of a kind.

>>68273327
By VI6-i you mean a VI in first inversion to i? Only one of the voices actually needs to move, so it's a very static progression. So you'd have to show the context it's in.

>>68274560
no one is forcing anyone to listen to the whole thing. sometimes works are just longer than 2 minutes

>>68275178

I'm improvising on a bunch of jazz standards. I'm not particularly good at jazz, I just started getting into it a few months ago but I'm trying to learn more. But yeah I do get what you mean, unfortunately this seems to be the closest thread I can get feedback from.

>>68267503
sounds a bit like a neo-romantic on Grieg and the like. Very nice.

>>68269839
>>>68263353
not bad anon. good to see some fugues/fugatos coming up. Why not stick completely with organ? to hear individual parts better?

thanks. As I said, it's written for a small band of random instruments, which plays along for congregational singing. And I was trying to include the players, not to make them look bad etc.

>>68276797
just name all notes if you're unsure about the symbols.
<d f# a b> <e g# b> for example

>>68272501

>>68278117
><d f# a b> <e g# b>
So a v6-5 to i then?

>>68266346
One assignment I was given was to write for three parts and each part was in a different key. find ways to break the rules without completely deviating from the original task

>>68279011
That looks more like a ii7-V progression for A major.

>>68278982

>>68279234
Well, maybe, I have no idea. He said E minor though.

>>68279917
D(add6) to Emin would be v(5 6)-i progression indeed, which would be an authentic cadence in the Dorian or aeolian mode.

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I'm 21, currently studying physics.

I've played bass for a few years, and I'm considering dropping everything and becoming a pianist/composer.
I have god tier dedication and work ethic, I can easily do it all day long without feeling tired. Also it may sounds cheesy but the songs I've composed on guitar and bass are some of my favourite music ever.

I think I can do great, but I don't know if it's worth it to drop everything.

Specifically I'm worried about being too old to pick on some things that willl come natural to pianists/composers who started when they were 5.

This thing worries me in physics too, but I feel that a mediocre to barely good physicist is way more useful to society than a average musician.

Is starting late that much of an handicap?

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>totally not "do my homework for me"

Harmonize this!

>>68258909
Back when I used to compose I used my instrument and improvised until something that I liked came up. However I don't know that much theory, I'm one step above being a layman.

>>68281090
It isn't that much of a handicap unless you wanna become this century's Mozart or the next Rubenstein or something. Chill out.

It's like when casuals care about tier lists in video games, y'know what I mean?

Okay /comp/ I got some work here again, please rate. Obviously not finished yet, I'm almost halfway there though.

https://musescore.com/user/12518851/scores/2674751

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>>68282331
Did 4 bars for you anon.

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>>68282331
>>68283025
did the next 4

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>>68283025
>>68283616
thanks, that helped me alot doing my homework! :')

https://clyp.it/fcnbvz1w

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Someone please answer me. No one can tell me what this means but it's apparently really important. What does this c with the number mean in guitar sheet music?

>>68282949
I like your melody. 2 main issues, one I think you should fix for this piece and the other just to keep in mind for future pieces.
Your accompaniment is really not good. You definitely need more voice leading in your chords, instead of transposing things verbatim. Write out all your harmony as whole notes and try to voice lead it like it was a choral piece. This should be the "default" and when you want to make huge leaps in your accompaniment, that should be for effect.
Some of your voicings are really low and sound like crap. Like bar 54. Not only do the chords sound muddy, but voicing them so low creates a several octave gap between the accompaniment and melody. This makes your piece sound more hollow when, judging by the accompaniment, you're trying to go for a fuller sound. But really, these chords do sound crap so low. I'm not sure if you're a pianist, but if you tried those chords on a real piano in a real room, you would clearly hear them as unusable.
Some specific voicings jump out as bad, like the minor 9th you have in bar 64. I know you're going for that fa mi appo g style thing, but the minor 9th is just making it sound bad.

>>68284393
can you show more of the score?

>>68282447

I wanna become this century's Mozart. Why would I ever drop everything if my ambitions weren't that high?

I'm ready to devote my life to this call. I know I have the capabilities to eat and breath music non-stop for years.
Is it worth it since I'm starting that late? How much of an handicap my age is?

>>68281090
starting late is so unimportant that you should finish your physics studies first

>>68284716
it's not worth it. If you have to debate whether it's "worth it" you're getting into music for the wrong reasons. You'll always be a crap composer if you're trying to become a famous composer.

>>68284393
The notation is a bit different from what I'm used so it might just be something else, but C(roman number) usually means what fret you should barre on when doing barre chords.

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>>68284544
Here's a longer example. Thanks for the help btw

>>68284962
Ah I see but then what do you do when it's a fraction? I've seen it as 1/2C.II and it's got me scared haha

>>68284737
this desu
never hurts to have a fallback as well

>>68285121
did a quice google
1/2 = Half, C = capo (barre), II = second fret.

So a half-barre (across strings 1, 2 and 3) at the second fret.

How do I git gud at Finale's quick entry tool? If I can write music as quickly as I type my musical ideas might stop being killed by the process of putting them on paper

Do you ever have trouble balancing the time you allocate to listening to music for pleasure and studying/composing music or listening to it specifically for study/inspiration purposes?

Apparently my handwriting is so bad a friend of mine couldn't distinguish between my eighth notes and my quarter notes. Should I give up?

>>68286222
just do it in a program after writing it down

Brump

>>68286222
No composer wants to read hand-written score. Use sibelius or finale and type set your scores. Makes it much easier to extract parts / fix errors, and all performers will be able to read it, provided your layout is clear enough.

>>68285874
perhaps try recording with a MIDI keyboard, or use a DAW that you're actually quick with using?
Even recording your ideas as you sing or whistle them, and then transcribe them later. Gotta capture that inspiration, find what works for you. actual notation can often be the last step after all the music is written.

>>68287580
I've done all this, though.
In fact, even singing or whistling the ideas starts to kill them (because I can no longer imagine how it sounds with the other parts). I've seen my composition teacher typing on Finale, though, it's just instantaneous.

>>68287387

Bach > Beethoven > mozart

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and another post in my fugue wip diary. The last episode was cut short a little bit, I'll probably expand it to include more of the theme. I can't help but feel that I have to abandon the motive whenever there's the cantus firmus in the bass voice.

https://clyp.it/rojf0xvc

>>68285422
Thank you so much my man! I actually understand what it means now. I tried google but I couldn't figure out what to search for lol

Any one know any good places where people just share their very own compositions? I just want to find people other peoples work and play them to just get a taste of the variance I don't want to disregard everyone else because they are not regarded or recognized.

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>most important part of music school is meeting people and making connections
>too beta to talk to anyone let alone ask them to look at my works

>>68291198
depends, everyone is too scared of their ideas being stolen and monetized nowadays.

>>68284405

Thank you for your feedback!

>Some specific voicings jump out as bad, like the minor 9th you have in bar 64. I know you're going for that fa mi appo g style thing, but the minor 9th is just making it sound bad.

You're giving me too much credit, I have no idea how I came up with this. I'm not even sure if I transposed that specific part correctly, because I composed everything by ear and improv. I'm really low-tier in music knowledge.

I mean, of course I know what a minor 9th is, but I don't know what a fa-mi-appo-g style thing means.

I am a (returning) pianists. I'm kinda rushing the harmony in this transcription, but for the most part it is almost exactly as I do it on the piano. As I hear it, I become bored of the harmony, but I'm really not sure what to do with it :S as I've said my
music knowledge is very limited and last week was my first piano class in like 3 years, in fact I composed this thing more than 2 years ago and never transcribed it.

Thanks for the observation on chords being too low, by bar 54 I'm trying to convey a contrast with the melancholic nostalgia, now putting it with happy nostalgia (I composed this after my best friend abruptly cut the relationship, I was pretty beaten up). I'm not sure if I even play it like that, but I will check on it, thanks!

Aren't chorals purely harmony-driven with multiple voices, though? How would I do that here? I'm not sure if whole notes is a good thing, because I was kinda inspired by Chopin's waltzes (obviously without the skill of said legend) so I want it to have a waltz-y feeling to it that can't be conveyed by whole notes.

>>68284716
Do it then, although IMO your ambition is WAAAY blown out of proportion. You can still devote yourself to music but what I meant is that you probably won't become an era-defining musician, doesn't mean you can't be fucking great or genius.

>>68284405
Oh, by the way, just added an octave to the left hand, I hate how it sounds. Do you think I should go for the middle rode and put the chords in modified positions?

what are some techniques I could use to fill space between important melodies/themes when writing romantic style pieces?

>>68293306
arabesques and garlands.

>>68293332
stuff like https://youtu.be/59grdbuLomw?t=1m19s

lots of examples in Chopin's and Liszt's piano works.

>Violist contacts me and asks if I've ever written a solo viola piece (he's played a few of my pieces in the past in ensembles - and old family friend)
>I say no, but I can whip one up
>He's playing at a concert in november and was asked to improvise something, or tackle a quite intensive piece, so is looking for something easy to play yet also kind of "experimental"
>Already started, have about 4 minutes worth.
>hope to finish a 6 minute solo viola piece in the next few days for him
Performances come out of nowhere sometimes! Should be a good challenge, and hopefully end up with a nice solo viola piece

>>68293306
Transitional material is a bit of an art from. Try using deconstructed versions of the themes, just a few notes, and sequenced or repeated, or combinations of different themes. Or just write something new for the transition. Getting transitions right can take quite a bit of practice.

>>68291198
http://composersforum.ning.com/

How long were your pieces when you started your studies? What forms, how many instruments etc.?

I'm not a student but have been composing and producing for some time, but I think I want to go back a little and start from something simpler, since I think I have troubles with instrumentation and theme development. Don't know much harmony except what is inherent to me, but I already have forma education in instrument so you don't have to show me theoria and all the other links.

My instrument is piano, but often I write really basic stuff, and usually my left hand just plays chords, it's really static. It's like all the complicated music I played didn't help me at all.

What should I do now?

How would you teach someone to improvise? Like, come up with an actual pop song on the spot. What concepts would you touch on? Scales? Circle of fifth? Modes?

Not really going into jazz territory, just simple improvisation techniques.

>https://musescore.com/user/12513221/scores/2721851
Looking for feedback, particularly on how I can create a grander and more exciting finish, though general thoughts will still be appreciated (also please excuse the overuse of dynamics and accents, I had optimised it for playback on Sibelius).
I'm gonna be quite stubborn about keeping the Ab7 chord at bar 28, but I feel as though it restricts me purely to either a Db major or minor chord in the next measure. Looking for any ideas on unique and/or fitting cadences I can use to round off this section.

>>68293949
For improvising chords, I'd suggest teaching some very general harmonic progressions.
As for scales, when I solo over pop and rock songs I always use a pentatonic minor or major as a core frame for the solo and add notes from various different modes and scales to suit the chords underneath, particularly minor scales, so you could start by teaching those. However, I'm not actually sure if that method of soloing is useful for instruments other than the guitar.

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>>68290150
yo i really like this, when the bass voice enters is a really great moment
>>68292754
the fa-mi appoggiatura is like, let's say you're in C major. FA-MI is F to E (in solfege), and appogiatura is kind of like jumping "too high" in the melody and resolving by step. Like resolving a sus4 chord.

>Thanks for the observation on chords being too low, by bar 54 I'm trying to convey a contrast with the melancholic nostalgia, now putting it with happy nostalgia (I composed this after my best friend abruptly cut the relationship, I was pretty beaten up).
I think there are better ways to portray a feeling like this. Right now what I'm hearing is a muddy left hand and a sweet right hand, and it just feels like a mistake. I'd try to capture sad nostalgia with things like appogiatura, suspensions, chordal extensions, maybe accompaniment in the upper register (instead of the super low register).

>Aren't chorals purely harmony-driven with multiple voices
Yes but you can use choral writing principles when writing piano parts! I've attached an example of how to apply this to bar 6 and 7. The first two bars are the original, and you can see if you separate your voices, everything is jumping too much. In the example with good voice leading principals, everything is smooth. This should be your default voice leading technique, and huge jumps in voicings should be for effect, but used with caution. This also helps get bass and chord separation, as your bass and chord parts were previously overlapping
>I'm not sure if whole notes is a good thing
Yeah my bad, I was unclear. You just set everything to whole notes so you can see the voice leading clearer, and then when you figure out the voice leading you use whatever rhythm you want

>>68293843
Anyone?
Also, I can't find many good lessons on composition on YouTube, it sucks. Don't know how to learn properly without a mentor.

>>68293949
This is the only way, and if anyone tells you anything else they are partially wrong:
You need to learn a shitload of songs in the genre you are interested in improvising in, preferably learning them by ear.
>>68293978
Is the ending unfinished as it is? Like, you want to make it grand and exciting but you sucked out all the instrumentation. I think your final chord progression is not suited to a finale. The secondary dominant harmony makes it feel like this section is going to go on for a while, I didn't expect it to end for at least another 8 measure section. The way I'd personally do this is at measure 29 I would drop the intensity and instrumentation, and then build it back over the course of a couple of bars, and use simple tension building harmonic ideas like a dominant pedal to really drive home the "oh boy we're ending now". I think the grandest endings are the ones you can see from a mile away, and yeah it's kind of cheesy but I think your piece is anyways.

some general thoughts:
Melody is unclear at some points. I can't tell if this is an orchestration or a midi issue, since I can't read your tiny score.
Piano part should be underneath the harp, really.
Your piccolo part is either not written out as it should be (transposed an octave) or is insaaanely high
Some dynamics are unbalanced, a timpani triple f is really going to cut through a tutti mf, and I don't think your timpani part is something you want to draw attention to here, it's just some extra spice, not the star of the show.

As for the resolution of the Ab7 chord, I don't like what you have right now. I can't see what it is because the score is too small to read, and my ear isn't that good, but you can really resolve it to anything at this stage of the piece. You're about to hit the finale, so whatever you go to will just be a nice deceptive resolution to set up your ending.

>>68294255
>>68293843
Well depends what you mean by my studies. I started composing when I was 12 but I didn't study it or music theory. I wrote only piano solos for about 2 years. When I started getting serious at around 15 I looked into writing simple forms, ternary, rondo, etc, and some stock instrumentations like duos, string quartets, wind quintets. Not too long after I started writing for orchestra, but I don't think I was really comfortable with that until I was around 19. I started learning jazz at around 17.

And yeah, playing music won't help you at all unless you make it help you. You need to analyze what all those pieces are doing. Look into a more complex book like the Kostka Tonal Harmony book, and learn how to analyze harmony. Take the pieces you like and analyze their harmony. Analyze everything, I used to keep a sketch book of piano accompaniment patterns I stole from good composers to use in my pieces. I've improved to the point where I don't need that, but now I keep a sketch book of orchestration techniques that I steal.

>>68294295
There shouldn't be piano, for some reason musescore swapped the trumpet sound for piano.
I just wrote a simple idea of what I'm trying to go for, and if I can get it to sound right I'll reupload to musescore. The midi at the moment is ridiculously bad.

>>68294295
Honestly, I don't think I'm going to get this program to do what I want. I think I solved my main ending problem anyway. Thanks for the help, though.

what do you guys start with when writing? Rhythm, bass, percussion?

>>68295393
A melody, that inherently has rhythm, and often harmony too.

>>68295393
I'm doing it all wrong. I start with chord progressions and construct melodies by adding passing notes, figurations and ornaments while using different rhythmic patterns. That's probably the reason why I am so stuck with >>68290150

>>68294184
Thanks. I cheated a little and added basso octaves to the pedal voice. I'm resorting to woodwind and brass sounds because I don't have any good vst organ sounds at hand for playback.

>>68293718
Here's what I've come up with for my solo viola piece:

https://www.scribd.com/document/326753426/Viola-Partita
https://clyp.it/nhp1vedq

Obviously the strummed part isn't going to sound like this - I used a mandolin tremolo as a stand in for what it will sound like. The strumming will be much slower and softer due to strumming with fingers.

I was thinking about adding more dynamic variety to the first section but at this stage its just mf throughout. Might make a few sections cresc. to f but I dont think I'll drop below mf.

And of course the flicking the instrument and vocalisation aren't in the clyp.it

>>68295684
>I don't have any good vst organ sounds at hand for playback.
get the Samplephonics town hall organ and Kontakt 5 (provided you have a DAW) its excellent and you should be able to find both of those on rutracker. The Toccata organ library is also very good.

>tfw have an arrangement due in ~ 2 hours and im barely in the 3rd measure out of 32

JUST

>>68295800
I IV V everything everyday

>>68295786
Thanks, I do have a DAW, still, I'd have to export the midi and allocate the VSTs evey time from sibelius, I guess? Or can I somehow wire them into sibelius?

If not, then this process seems to be mostly practical for "milestones" and the finished product.

Can I do my own registrations (combination of organ stops) with those VSTs?

File: Toccata.png (86KB, 630x397px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 630x397px

>>68296005
Personally I like to write with the good quality samples, so it sounds good while I'm writing. It means you have to do your counterpoint in the DAW, depends how much you rely on that - its fine if you're writing by ear, but sometimes writing in the DAW can make it a bit more difficult to easily check intervals. Some DAWs like logic even have notation build in which is nice, but I use FL and Reason and neither do.

As for stops, Samplephonics Town Hall has 6 presets you can choose from, and Toccata has full stop control - pic related

>>68296082
alright, thanks.

I'm kinda old-fashioned when it comes to writing. I'm more comfortable with sheet music notation than that piano-roll midi notation. (also Sibelius has this built in check for parallel 5 and 8)

My typical workflow is

>write sheet music with occasional proof-listening
>fuck around on the piano/organ when I'm out of ideas/bored.
>(optional) when finished, export midi into DAW and do some basic agogic and articulation

but I'll definitely have a look at the DAW approach and try to merge whatever seem useful into my workflow.

>>68296005
>I IV V everything everyday

I know that's the plan senpai but I have to use secondaries and borrowed chords. Fuckin ell. I'm in measure 11 now but holy fuck just kill me

>>68296454
then replace every second IV with II(#) as secondary or bII6 as Neapolitan :^)

>>68296490
kek way ahead of you on the neapolitan m8

however its taking me a bit too long so i just went with an It6 near the end

dear fuck procrastination is fun :^)

>>68296454

post that shit here

I'm curious to see what you were able to do with such a short notice

I'm an amateur composer, and I think I'm really getting somewhere wtih my compositions. Both my teachrers (who have tenure in the local Conservatory) are enthusiastic too. I think I'm finally ready to find some musicians, teach them the pieces and organize some live event.

How do I network with classical musicians? How cheap will it be to record 3 string quartets (they're fairly hard but doable by most string players, I think) and 2 compositions for a piano trio (Drum, double bass and piano), considering I live in New York?

I know it sounds very generic but I'm completely clueless about the dynamics of releasing music.

What do you think of this? Worth developing?

https://clyp.it/qyhkopj4

>listening to poor mans jazz

>>68298529
Not bad but God that voice sample for f is too flat.

>>68298270
I think audio engineers take about 60 to 70 bucks an hour. As for the musicians, it depends. Professional musicians will be around that price, too. If you can manage to get students of a local music college, you should be able to pay about half of that.

>>68299543
You are right, damn it must be amazing to have a perfect pitch. I would never hear that without comparing with another instrument.

...

See, I always come to this point where I don't know if the motif or a theme is good enough to be built upon. Last time I posted here one other project, somebody hated the piece. That is the exact reason why I'm afraid and am always stopping early and going to something else.

How can I know when it's good enough? Somebody quoted that one composer who said that at some point you have to accept what you have and work on it. How can I know where is that point?

Btw, I don't know if this >>68298780 is supposed to be related to this clyp, but anyway, I don't know why /comp/ increasingly got more offensive to amateur and beginner composers in general.

>>68258803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwvoHZ0Gf3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVfnd5r8bM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU-mKsQLWXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCuOlyMlJD0

>>68295393
A motif. Whether that be melodic, rhythmic, or (rarely) harmonic

>>68295393

I usually try to work a motif and then I expand it to at least 1 minute, all on piano.

After that I trascribe everything and I start expanding and fixing the transcription with pen and paper, trying to mantain the atmosphere and feeling of the original sketch.

At the end the piece is unrecognizable.

>>68301736
>>68301572
Motifs are for criminals

>>68301534

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTUtqcDkzw7bisadh6AOx5w

just discovered this youtube channel
pretty neat bite-sized music theory videos imo

>>68299812
>Somebody quoted that one composer who said that at some point you have to accept what you have and work on it. How can I know where is that point?
That point is the night before it's performed.

The point of the quote is that you'll never ever come up with something you think is good enough, so you should accept what you have already and turn it into something great. A theme that's not just bad but unworkable is very, very rare, and a motif that's unworkable doesn't exist.

What did you post that someone hated, anyway? And what did they say about it? Most likely they disliked your treatment of the theme or motif, and not the thing itself. (If they just said "stop posting" or some other short phrase, you should really just ignore it)

Who is the real successor to Beethoven?

>>68289957
Word m8

>>68303289
Schoenberg

>>68303359
Lol
Seriously though.

>>68302989
Oh, it was this one:

https://clyp.it/dn1pe4y5

He said something about bad guitar sounds and that he hates the motif, also that the piece is boring blah blah. Didn't learn anything from that. Wait, actually I did, and that was that I possibly have a horrible taste and that's why I'm asking how to know what ideas I have are good and what are bad, because I literally have hundreds of raw "ideas" at this point and am scared that I will pour dozens of hours again on something which is not worth it.

(Btw, the mix and arrangement are still very rough. Also, even I don't like it so much anymore).

But yeah, I'm so deep inside my head at this point that I don't even know what to do, should I shut up and just finish stuff no matter of what quality they are, or start learning more harmony and orchestration, or something third. Like, what is the most efficient way to improve.

I'm now afraid I will never make good music due to my shitty taste, I mean why do I like this e.g.?

https://clyp.it/01cntn0y

I want to start studying composition, and as far as I know the most efficient way to study (according to me) is doing lots of exercises and try to use all the informations I've got from the start.

What's a good book about composition riddled with exercises? I'm pretty sure I can become extremely knowledgeable in a few years due to my puzzle solving autism.

>>68303482
That was kinda neat though. The main thing I'd say about that is that I don't think that theme is best used as ostinato. Like at 0:42 I was ready for the guitar part to start developing and going somewhere new and unexpected with it (I'm some classicalfag though so take that for what you will). Also I dunno why but the combination of
>guitar: C F E D - - - - (end of the bassline before it loops again)
and what seem to be a picardy third, ending up with DMaj, something about that just seems kind of schmaltzy, I dunno. Maybe because of the implied v-I?

But yeah, it's by no means bad.

>I don't even know what to do,
You should probably stop taking such comments so closely to heart. I mean you should listen to criticism, but you shouldn't let it haunt you like this.

As for texts, maybe the Schoenberg? Since you say you have ideas and the Schoenberg's all about developing ideas

>>68294184
Okay, thank you very much, I'll try to keep these in mind while I finish the transcription, but I'm probably gonna leave these parts as-is right now and fix them later, I really wanna show this to my teacher next week, so when I post this again and it's the same just remember that I did hear your advice.

So, you mentioned bar 54, do you think that the left hand is oaky on the first part then? Where do you think this could get some work, or what am I doing right?

>>68303482

That guys was me.

I'm sorry if I put you down. I genuinely don't like that piece, but as I said in the other thread I have a natural antipathy on most electric guitar sounds.

It simply may not be my cup of tea. Though these are my 2c: if you're unsure about something you've recorded just think about how deliberate every choice was. If you're sure that you've considered every option that resonated with you and you genuinely like the piece then it's fine, unless you're trying to make a grand artistic statement with your music.

>>68304216
The Fux is basically this. The Schoenberg and Kostka also have plenty of exercises but they're fairly advanced.

>>68303482
The opening riff is okay. D Dorian mode, like lots of popular songs (some are linked in the gregorian modes stream Pdf in the gdrive)

I'd wished for some more adventurous development as well, and more (continuous) voices. Maybe do some chord substitutions (a minor instead of C major here and there), a more active bass voice, a secondary, simpler chorus riff...

It's all about how you develop your stuff, as long as your initial material is decent.

>>68269520
Passing notes maybe?

How do I start connecting theory with composition? I just can't do it the other way than to write as it comes to me, without paying much attention to rules. And then I end up with something I kind of like, but know it is not harmonized well enough. And that makes me feel very bad.

https://clyp.it/xillntgg

Feedback on this?

I've hit upon a bit of a problem. I can write a piece that is unique enough to be original but they are always A. They go around like a train set but it's going to bore my audience after a few plays. I return back to them looking for places to add a diversion to wake people up should they ever sit to hear them.

>>68305396
well, I do use whatever little I know about theory to help harmonize stuff, do some variation on chords, use different registers to emphasize stuff and the likes.

>kyrie
it's okay. One pedal note in the bass and different minor-like chords on top (dorian, melodic minor, harmonic minor).
BUT where's the "eleison"??

>>68305500
Take 2 pieces and mash them up as AABA! Viola.

>>68305541
>Take 2 pieces and mash them up as AABA! Viola.
Thanks

The more I'm doing this shit the more I feel I'm not born for it and should just quit this hobby (which will probably be nothing more) t b h. And the pain is too big when I'm never satisfied with anything, so I can't "just compose for myself".

I don't think I have improved at all this whole year. I have even stopped playing a lot of piano and I will never forgive myself if I lose that skill. I have never loved theory, but have realized I need it to create good compositions, since I'm probably not the one of those who can bring a great song from their ass without knowing how to even read notation.

The first two compositions I have completed will probably be the best ones I have ever made. I really thought I have the potential...


>https://clyp.it/rqtv11yz
>https://clyp.it/hdaei24j

>>68305879
how long have you been composing
You also don't need theory to write good music, you just need to learn to play music you like and analyze how it works.

File: Man with a Computer - Anthony Aziz and Sammy Cutcher (1992).jpg (918KB, 1754x3071px) Image search: [Google]

918KB, 1754x3071px

I made something but I accidentally posted it in the guitar general and it's not letting me repost it here: >>68306679

File: milioti.jpg (216KB, 980x1470px) Image search: [Google]

216KB, 980x1470px

>>68258803
/pol/ack here, don't know shit about music composition, but can I trust a book written by a Jew (Schönberg)?

Does his book address regular rules to composition, or will I end up creating degenerate music if I try to emulate it?

>>68306771
Sounds like some indie fag shit, even has the faggy hipster title too.

>>68306771
generic, but nice. Gives a camp fire kinda feel and implies the "I have a gf" kinda vibe.

>>68306806
Schoenberg's trilogy only covers common practice AFAIK. So don't worry Brodowski, you'll only learn to compose pure german music with a Mendelssohn seal of conservative rigour if you follow it.

File: Vampfu.jpg (575KB, 2005x3000px) Image search: [Google]

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>>68306871
thanks bud

>>68306829
>>68306835
Thanks for the criticisms anons

>>68306771
I find that when playing whole chords like you are, quick changes between chords are very jumpy and kind of take away from the piece. If you're adamant about keeping a quick chord change then I'd try and find a chord shape very similar to the chord played before the change.

>>68306871
One more question, if I read the books in the OP does it matter in which order I do. I already know music theory, but that's it.

>>68306926
That's some useful advice! If you could consider thediddy AABB, the first B has D -> E, C C7 -> G but the second is D -> Em, C C7 G which has the E chord transition better in to the C so I see what you mean.

booh I did an improv again. Kontakt5 and the toccata VST are funny. No mixture or cornett stops, but that's okay, fun to mess around with on a midi keyboard.

Next to learn how to use this stuff properly.

https://clyp.it/1vnxts3d

also gnight bump.

>>68306242
For about a year and a half.

>>68307239
yeah man that's not even enough to develop a good critical ear. Keep at it and you can only get better. You're just in an awkward spot where every reaches. Everyone hits plateaus in their skills, and then everyone hits break throughs.

I know it sound cheesy and amateurish and maybe not that insightful, but I want learn to play piano as effortessly as Glenn Gould did.

Considering I'm 20 (almost 21) how long would it take me to master that well the instrument?

Consider that I should have the discipline. I've played electric guitar for most of my life, I usually exercise at least 2 hours everyday and play for my own enjoyment at least 3 hours. I've done it for 8 years now and I feel I can do it with piano.

Given this amount of dedication how many years should it take me to become really good at piano? Can I expect to be extremely competent by the time I'm 30 if I stay that focused on the instrument everyday for these 9.5 years?

>>68306982
Start with the Greeks

can everyone stop asking how long it takes to get good at something. Just give up if that's how you feel. You don't care about composing or the art or playing or whatever if you just care about the end result. It doesn't matter how long it takes if you enjoy it. What if it it takes 50 years? Will that stop you from playing piano? Then you were never going to be good in the first place.

>>68307414
If you keep to that schedule and practice efficiently, you'll be a great pianist. You will not be as good as Glenn Gould, however.

I'd like to ask a similar question as the post above, but for composition. I actually do want to make something worth calling art, not just compose for my pleasure. I had formal music studies for 11 years, but didn't learn much harmony and counterpoint though, only solfege.

Is there a chance for accomplishing anything meaningful, starting at an old age of 22?

You know, if you can't be one of the best, what's the point and all that.

>>68307414
Dont bother with a new instrument after the 19th year of your life, your brain cannals are frozen and wont grow any new connections because the blood veins get old. Maybe in next life :^)

>>68307485

Why is that a stupid question?
I don't know the inner workings of learning how to play piano and I was asking here cause I'm too sperg to ask to my guitar teacher and there are most likely people here who have already mastered the instrument.

Stop being a dick.

>>68307488
Why not? Is it because Im starting too late and I'll never catch on him? Because if there are no natural barriers I'm sure I have the discipline to reach any level of mastership.

Oh and btw, how good is the average composer after finishing uni?

>>68307515
A lot of it depends on your natural abilities anon. Knowledge and practice alone won't let you write great compositions. Considering today's artistic climate your prospects look even dimmer. But ask yourself if that would deter a true artist.

>>68307539
Are you very well-versed with the classical repertoire and it's major players? You would do well to take note that even among the absolute GIANTS of the scene, literally history-book-tier composers and performers, Gould was and is considered an anomaly, a glitch, almost a mistake in that no one should have been able to possess such a tremendously precise technique.

>>68307553
Alright. (And then when I hear people saying talent is a meme...).

>Considering today's artistic climate your prospects look even dimmer
What do you mean by this sentence btw? And do you guys not dream of that? What is your goal as musicians? I'd sell my soul for achieving artistic immortality.

>>68307545
Absolute shit.

t. music comp grad

>>68307588

Well, I know he was a prodigy but is that level of dexterity unnatural even if I take it as a really long term goal?
Won't 40 years of costant practice give me the ability of playing Bach with such clarity?

>>68307539
It's a stupid question. It will take you 100 years of practice, 8 hours a day to play like Glenn Gould. This isn't because you're starting too late, it's because it's clear from how you speak that you'll never be that good. And what does that matter? Do you like playing piano or do you like the idea of people liking you playing piano?

>>68307545
the problem is most university composition courses accept shitters, so the average is not good.

>>68307636
just do like I did. Play Bach on the harpsi and the organ and spend your energy on something else and get more done.

Paragraph from Wiki about Gould:

>Both his parents were musical, and his mother, especially, encouraged the infant Gould's early musical development. Before his birth, his mother planned for him to become a successful musician, and thus exposed him to music during her pregnancy.

Seems that you can't win at music without this kind of upbringing. Was true for every famous musician I have read bio about.

>>68307604
Most opportunities for art these days are dictated by people with heavy ideological biases, especially towards progressivism. If Mozart were alive and composing today he would be poorer than he was in his own time. Commissions, awards, and festival performances, etc. all reflect these "new music" values, which, to me, are often extraneous to the music itself.

>>68307663

>It's a stupid question. It will take you 100 years of practice, 8 hours a day to play like Glenn Gould.

Why? It's something I've started considering just 2 days ago, but somehow I feel the call and I'm 100% sure that I can mantain a string exercise regime for decades, as I've always done with school and electric guitar.

I know that I can exercise that much and I know that I personally love the act of playing an instrument, so I know it won't be an hassle to learn how to properly play the piano.

I'm not concerned with a possible failure, I just want to know what is the scale of the task, according to pianists here on /mu/. When I'll have enough money to buy a piano (probably at the end of November I'll have one) I'll start contacting teachers and I'll get a more clear idea of what kind of path lies ahead of me.

Until then I'd just like to know what you guys think.

>>68307636
Yes, that level of dexterity is completely unnatural, that is what I'm trying to say. By all means, don't let this stop you. But I'm just saying there is a reason that Gould is famous and the 30 or 40 pianists who graduate from postgraduate programs at the most prestigious institutions around the world aren't. They are good, certainly, some of them even great, but for some reason or another they aren't Gould, despite being totally committed to their art.

>>68307695

I'm pretty sure he'd be famous as shit as either a pop composer or as a pop pianist like Lang Lang.

I'm 100% sure that he would be hated by /comp/ as a whole.

>>68307786
That's speculation, but the point I was making is that no matter how well one writes, if it's in anything but a hypermodernist style, it won't receive respect or attention.

>>68307750
>I'd sell my soul for achieving artistic immortality.
Again it's very clear you aren't musically motivated, so you'll never be good no matter how much you practice. Re-evaluate why you do what you do.

>>68307663
>>68307750

quoted the wrong part
>This isn't because you're starting too late, it's because it's clear from how you speak that you'll never be that good. And what does that matter? Do you like playing piano or do you like the idea of people liking you playing piano?


About the second question: I truly enjoyed what I've composed on electric and classical guitar. I'm pretty fond of all my recordings and I trust my taste enough to completely pursue piano playing and composition.

>>68307833
>I'd sell my soul for achieving artistic immortality.

That was the guy asking about composition.
I just want to compose beautiful music, and since I want to get serious about it I want to learn both what can I do with a piano and to think instinctively about music through composition.

You can't say to me that you wouldn't mind if nobody gave a fuck about your compositions.

>>68307833
Who are you to make that judgement? First of all you're exaggerating anon's fame-hunger, and secondly, plenty of great composers have been motivated by fame.

>>68307750
>I feel the call and I'm 100% sure that I can mantain a string exercise regime for decades, as I've always done with school and electric guitar.
Anon, if you've been playing guitar for 8 years and you still have to come to 4chan for musical advice then clearly your method isn't as effective as you think.

>>68307870

The friends I hang out with are all music conoisseur. I'm pretty sure it's the main link of the group, so I would be pretty fine showing my compositions to them only.

>>68307884

It wasn't music advice about guitar. It was an advice about an instrument I have no familiarity with. I don't fucking know how long does it take to obtain some level of mastership over the instrument, nor I can know how actually good is a pianist.

Jesus Christ, you're such an asshole.

>>68281090
could be fun to work with your physics knowledge in your compositions, do you like modern classical? You would need to develop good ear training and shit

>>68307873
This. I mean, maybe I'm really fucking wrong, but I like when people enjoy my stuff more than writing it in the first place.

Is that really so abnormal?

>>68307870
I guess I'd mind a little? I'd just be happy I'm actually completing compositions though.

>>68307873
>WHEN will I be Glenn Gould
>exaggerating fame hunger

And maybe I'm wrong, but what composers were motivated by fame

>>68308014

Again, I'm not the guy who said the fame hunger thing.
He is the guy asking about composition.
These are my posts:
>>68307414
>>68307539
>>68307663
>>68307750
>>68307864
>>68307927

>>68307927
Not him, but there's becoming a good accompanist, then there's becoming a virtuoso pianist, then there's becoming president and then finally there's being as good as Glenn Gould.

>>68307691
Is anybody going to deny this?

>>68308049

>>68307663

is actually not mine, my bad.

>>68308014
Whatever, I'm not going to defen this random guy on 4chan. You can interpret anything someone says as negatively you like, but it does make you an asshole.

Let me make my version of the end goal.

How hard would it be for me to get on levels of John Williams and Ennio Morricone? To think that Morricone wasn't even studying composition makes me wanna kill myself.
And then there is Hans Zimmer, but people write for him so meh.

>>68308062
If your standard for "winning" at music is being Glenn Gould then of course not.

>>68308150
those guys aren't extraordinarily talented, just famous and a little lucky

>>68308150
Btw, I'm mostly joking, I know that shit is impossible.

Realistically, I'd like to being able to get payed for composing and get noticed by at least somebody.

>>68308169
I know that Morricone was lucky in that he had a friend who was shooting movies that asked him to score one of them and so it began.

Hear that Zimmer was doing music for commercials and what not and somebody noticed him.

>>68308160

For fuck's sake, I've told you multiple times that I'm not that guy.

I'm the guy who asked the question about Glenn Gould, the fame hungry guy asked the question about composition.

oooh time to trip?

Ultimately, what is going on itt is that most of the anons will get jobs while the others can't do that shit without a degree so there are questions how can they get noticed because that is the only way for them to do this as a living. I mean, fuck it, I could make a lot more money in a field that I'm studying, but that shit is not what i want to do and i will leave 0 legacy. Also, given the so much time i put into playing an instrument i feel like i would make a sin if i really ended it completely and forever, i cant do this to myself. Ofc i can always compose shitty 1 minute long sketches for myself and shitpost here and on /prod/ but that is not enough and what i want.

>>68308232
What on earth are you talking about?

Sorry, I'll clarify my post.
>If your standard for "winning" at music is being Glenn Gould then of course not.
should be
>If one's standard for "winning" at music is being Glenn Gould then of course not.

>>68308485

Playing like Glenn Gould is not winning at music, it's just what I wanted to achieve.

>>68308494
>Playing like Glenn Gould is not winning at music
No, it's far beyond that
>it's just what I wanted to achieve.
>just
I just want to be able to leap skyscrapers in a single bound.

Well, if your goal is to be as good as Glenn Gould, you might 'only' become a virtuoso pianist in the end, so maybe you should aim for that.

>>68269520
blue notes is the term im pretty sure

>>68307071
Ah sounds fucking amazing man. Wish I could improvise like that. You must be the academy organ learning anon, so I dont feel too bad right now :^)

Sounds great though man, I'm glad you're enjoying toccata

good night bump

I don't get why Eshpai's so unknown in the west. His music is always so fascinating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGd_mKndlN8
This onw is kind of jazzy, maybe just because of the orchestration. Unmistakably Eshpai though

>>68311786
>can't find his piano concertos on Youtube
Even his double bass concerto is there.
Well, it's great too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Buz7q_oAejE

>>68311607

>>68311192
How do I improve in improvising? I thought I was decent, but I actually make a lot of mistakes and don't actually think about what I'm doing harmonically.

Why does noone answers questions about how good are the entry compositions for college?

I'm also very interested in that, want to know if I would even have a chance.

>tfw choose a random Chopin's polonaise to play
>wonder why is it so easy
>tfw picked his first published polonaise which he wrote when he was seven years old
>get intimidated

>>68314258
Practice, I guess. Your improv is excellent as is, but I suppose one can always improve. Try incorporating secondary dominants or more chromatic modulations. I personally like to constantly do chromatic basslines and constantly modulate to distant keys while improvising. Sounds odd to listen to, but is fun to play.

>>68314537
We didn't have entry compositions. You just apply and get in. The only thing you had to audition for was performance papers where you actually had to be able to play an instrument.

>>68315041
Jesus christ, is it that simple in some colleges?

In mine, for composition you had to write tests on solfege, dictations, harmonizations of bass and soprano, counterpoint etc., then sing some shit prima vista, then harmonize on piano in 4 voices something prima vista, then have a piano repertoire and also have your own composition, notated and an audio file.

To think of it, I would never get into that even if I tried, and likely never will even if I want to one day.

Btw, that improv was not mine, I'm a different anon, my improv is weird, like what can be heard in the last clyp here:

>>68303482

>https://clyp.it/01cntn0y

>>68315166
>Jesus christ, is it that simple in some colleges?
It just depends on where you want to study. The university I'm applying for wants a small portfolio of compositions as well as grade 5 theory or an equivalent qualification.

>>68314537
The top colleges are very selective and you have to be amazing. Some colleges you can be shit and have no prospects.
There aren't enough musicians to sustain music colleges so most aside from the very top accept basically anyone

>>68314258

Mindless practice. No musician thinks about what note he's going to play next in an improv.
You just practice enough by yourself/with your band until you can instinctively do it.

>>68314258
learn pieces by ear in the styles you like
>>68315951
very untrue. If you speak to great improvisers they always are thinking ahead about their phrasing, their development, the overall shape of the solo. If you want your improv to sound compelling, you'll need think long term

>>68315984
I've been playing by ear for years and years, man. That doesn't mean I can improv in those styles at all I'm afraid. I think I need to know hardcore harmony on a piano for that.

>>68314798
Do you guys think that he composed that all by himself or got a lot of help from his teacher? I can't comprehend how can someone that young have a grasp on so many things and know harmony so well.

>>68315984

Thsy're not thinking "ok in the next bar I'm gonna play these intervals at these rythms", they just know what they want to play and they're prepared enough to already know how it will sound.

You dont have to mentally name what you're doing, and most of the time you simply wont have the time to do so.

As a personal experience, I find it very similar to becoming good at chess. Once you reach a certain level you really dont have to stop at every move and consider every option, you can just give a glance at the board and immediatly see 6 moves, without having to describe each one mentally.

I suck at harmonization and realized that I could just play chords at root positions like a retard to get the progression and then rework them on a paper. Is that retarded? Any other way to get better?

>>68316032
That means you haven't been thinking about what you've been playing. You need to analyze the pieces you learn by ear, harmonically, melodically, rhythmically.
>>68316056
Right, fair enough, we're just talking about two different things. But if you fail to think about long term form in your solo you'll just end up noodling aimlessly.
>>68316051
It depends on how clearly you want all those ideas to come through. Do you want the audience to understand these topics and your feelings on them? Or do you just want them to understand how these topics make you feel? Clear ideas like that are never going to come across in instrumental music. You can definitely capture a lot of the feelings that this make you feel, but this is so nuanced and non-linearly narrative that even with a program it would be hard to get across. Or maybe I'm just not creative or haven't thought too much.
Darcy James Argue manages to comment on nuanced ideas like this by juxtaposing his music with audio recordings like speeches, so that is certainly an option.

>>68316161
no you just suck and have found a way to make it work and as your practice more you'll get better, to the point where you won't even need to think about it. The best way to get better is to really analyze what you've done. When you rework chords on paper, take those chords back to the piano and play them, and see how they fit in your hand. Transpose them to another key, transpose them down a fifth and see if you'd need to revoice them in that register. Just think and analyze what you're doing, and that will help your practice go further.

>>68316161
>Is that retarded?

When I was studying piano in my teenagehood most people did it.

It is useful only as long as you keep playing what you work on paper. Eventually it will just click in your head and harmonization will become an afterthought.

>>68316202
Yeah, teachers never believed it when they realized I have no clue what is happening and can't play separate hands, nor chords beneath. I couldn't even start from any place they told me to. Nobody forced me to learn it like that so I ended up becoming a great pianist while actually being somewhat of a hack, I feel like a monkey, only training my muscle memory in order to play. People legitly thought i also have a perfect pitch because of my playing skills which never made sense to me.

Now I can't get any use of that skill in anything, including composition and it sucks so hard. I'd have to start from a beginning.

>>68316384
You're not starting from the beginning, idiot. You have a lot of mechanical musical knowledge, and you just need to translate it into analytical knowledge. Just take your favourite piece that you play right now and post sheet music here and let's analyze it.

>>68316384

Dude, your piano skill are most likely on point.

What you need to focus on is composition. You clearly know how to play difficult pieces, you just don't know why they're written the way they are.

Get a composition teacher and study as much as you can.

>>68316051
Most of your post has nothing to do with music. Look at Bach scores if you want to learn how to achieve emotional impact - voice leading, word painting, wordsetting, use of chords, use of tension and release.

Communism is an ideal, just like Democracy. Neither is a set-in-stone system, but rather a guideline that each country follows as they see fit.

I mean China is supposed to be communist but if you actually go there, its capitalist as fuck.

>>68308183
becoming a hollywood film composer isn't that hard I think. But reaching a status like Ennio is gonna be hard mainly because film music is so fucking boring these days.
Compare the music of any modern blockbuster with the soundtrack of an old Hitchcock film, and you'll be amazed at how much more sophisticated and complex the scores were back then. They were made by real composers, who composed in the style of their era.

Nowadays most film music is made by the director showing the composer a piece of temp (temporary) music, which he is then asked to emulate.
And since blockbuster directors have shit taste, the music is gonna be le ebin 3-chord reddit sparta shit.

>>68317021
Shut the fuck up, Hans Zimmer is better than Bach. Bach couldn't even do a kino music, what a hack.

>>68317021
By the way is there any reedeming thing in "epic orchestral music" like 2steps from hell and the like ?

One of my best friend listen to only that and it's a bit annoying

>>68317066
honestly I kinda like Hans Zimmer, I think the score for Interstellar was a m a z i n g (even though it literally was 3 chords)
The score for Interstellar was more sound design/orchestration (dat organ) than composition, and I think he nailed it.

also check out this markov chain piece i found some time ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eUP1Sncifg&list=LLwBAZNJjXUeKFNe8Iasqbnw&index=4

>>68317144
well the point of film scores is to accompany the pictures and convey a feeling, and music like 2 steps from hell works for a lot of people so I guess that redeems it a bit. The problem is just that it sounds so tacky to the more trained ear.

I think music like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOTjyCM3Ou4
sounds a hundred times more intense, but it's probably not as viewer friendly :/

>>68317144
I don't understand how 2steps from hell can resonate with anyone but it clearly does, copy pasted from youtube:
"I've heard this in excess of 200 times now, and still, it brings a tear to my eye. Everything about this song works just so perfectly, and I get the chills every time the vocals start. I recently got some new headphones, and this song was the first thing I tested them on... it honestly brought a tear to my eye."

>>68317258
Can somebody here explain why does music like from 2 steps from hell seem "tacky", "cheesy" and "cheap"? I actually kinda feel that myself too, but I don't have enough theoretical background to know why I feel that way. But it's not that I don't like some of ther pieces, even though I think a lot of them are too similar. I always liked this one e.g.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwJj2EpC8vg

As far as I can say, it's probably because of those stacatto strings that can be heard in tons of music of that genre, and chord progression seems to be too pop-ish I guess, maybe a bit too obvious.

>>68317323
>I don't understand how can somebody like X music

I thought you guys were professionals, not a bunch of kids. I think that beauty can be found in anything, and being biased about something doesn't make somebody a true musician in my eyes. Especially if he is preaching his views to everyone. I have one friend on facebook who is a pretty good pianist and wannabe composer, he's full into operas and can't stop bitching about "cheap" pop music, not to mention the shit he talks about electronic music. I mean, to me, that just tells me he has no idea what he is talking about while he should be open to everything novel. Pretty pathetic.

>>68317345
It's just because it's incredibly generic. The tacky, cheap connotations are just because it's used so much and with so little care (never really tied strongly to picture), for a good example of the exact reasons why, listen to the Star Wars themes orchestrated and produced by a trailer music company, and compare it to the real deal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGbxmsDFVnE

>>68317416
It's not about genre, in the way that someone can say "wow why do people like pop music", it's about how it functions in films and trailers. The music is very badly incorporated into these trailers and films. It's more like criticizing a song's production. I'm not confused why people like it, for reasons that you said, just why it's connecting on such an emotional level.

>>68317258
You know what is/can be one of the reasons? Because you can't let the music steal a viewers focus from the screen. It has to be of service to the picture, not vice versa. Minimalistic music which just sets the tone for a story, without completely switching the focus to itself can achieve that. That's why I also think Zimmer's work in Interstellar was spectacular.

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>>68317416
>I thought you guys were professionals, not a bunch of kids.
>implying

I agree with the sentiment though.

>>68317416
Guilty. Not a pro. Just an instrument player trying to improve his improv abilities by soaking up some comp skills.

I'm trying my best not to be a judgemental cunt, ever since I got reprimanded during my organ lessons for the remark "chord symbols on church songs remind me of crude guitar playing at campfires"

Yoroshiku senpai

>>68314537
The conservatoire I go to had an admissions exam to show your work as well as basic music and culture knowledge, but basically the best route is to show your unique style and not write romantic/classical style music or with romantic/classical style harmony.

Shout out to zim zimmer

Has someone on /comp/ written something for guitar/lute?
I'd like to try some works other anons made but the guitar general is basically nothing but gear wank.

>>68318462
I wrote 3 pieces for guitar + piano + bassoon for a film, but it's not a particularly interesting guitar part to play I guess https://soundcloud.com/benbartlett/children

>>68317471
well i personally dont mind being distracted by great music, sometimes it can even serve as a great contrast to the movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o8VKf8WsMk

i just wish they made scores like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_kid-pL5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC5AzFc3coo (hnnng)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn1sKPeT4to

>>68258803
Hey guys, how do I make my guitar song more like dungeon synth, any critiques

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5xzqkVO2Gd5ZkpGaUlRei15OU0/view?usp=sharing

>>68318579
I see. Its a nice tune but the guitar part isn't made for a solo.

>>68318895
>google drive
use clyp.it dude

have you ever listened to summoning ? Because that's what you're looking for

>>68319142
My bad, here https://clyp.it/iczqs5ty

Do you think it should be improved, because i made this song when I was listening to dungeon synth being inspired

>>68311786
>>68311873
This sounds almost vaguely serialist, and yet there are clearly repeated notes in motifs and tonal centers.

>>68319870
>tfw too intelligent for serialism

>>68319977
Did you even listen to it to determine whether it was serialism or not? Even if it is it's clearly not standard serialism

What genre of music is both cared about and lucrative today? Is it progressivism like somebody mentioned? Care to show some examples? I'm not aware what is popular in classical music world at all.

>>68320710
Metal is the new classical. Classical is pretty much dead.

>>68320739
Serious replies, please.

>>68320710
I think i don't get your question or at least the "cared about"

If you want lucrative music, seek for what goes in the chart through it's probably overdone so idk i never heard a kopeck with my music

>>68319189
Add keyboards listen to summoning

>>68320739
As a metalhead this is bullshit

>>68321323
>>68320751
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZQu3p-qWF8
Yeah, keep denying it but you won't stop the progress \m/

>>68320710
Progressivism is something completely unrelated.

The 20th century was the century of classical music's balkanization. Even the techniques described in the Kostka in the OP are ancient history at this point. Some current trends are neo-Romanticism, serialism (one might refer to it as neo-serialism at this point, but), New Complexity, various electronic and computer musics like spectralism for instance, minimalism/post-minimalism, eclecticism and polystylism (which both seem to be rather poorly-defined).

Basically the emphasis is on not having any particular style.

Just pop over to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_21st-century_classical_composers
sort it by youngest-to-oldest and dive into it

>>68321304
What kind of music do academics care about nowadays? Who will be a new Bach? What will a new era once be called? Is it minimalism or is that a thing of a past? Progressivism? Serialism? I'm just throwing these without actually knowing what I'm talking about, so that's why I 'm asking. What is new and fresh now? What are the best composers of today? Where is the classical music heading?

I'm wondering because I don't want to compose "stale" classical or romantic music, I want to try myself at something that is popular today and what might get me noticed more likely.

>>68321496
Thanks. So something likes this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny8QLdjRgXw

To be frank, I never understood this kind of music very well, but I will listen to it more.

It kinda seems that it is breaking a lot of rules of harmony so that might benefit me since I'm not well versed in that field, although I'm probably dead wrong on that...

>>68321521
Oh alright i need the end of your post too fast
Well i have no idea anyway

>>68321402
This guy made alright things but this is quite boring, specially compared to the original material.

>>68321496
Neo-romantism with synthesizers when

>>68321699
>Neo-romantism with synthesizers when

I'm just thinking about that. When I'm hearing this "new stuff" I kinda want to hear something like this but with a mixture of electronic instruments. I also like electronic music so I'm really gonna listen to more of this and try to experiment and emulate the feeling with synths.

Btw, it amazes me how low is the number of views on that kind of music. People really don't care about classical except old masters, huh? Makes me rethink some things...

>>68321699
>Neo-romantism with synthesizers when
Probably already to be honest

>>68321652
And stuff like
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w57qM6L4luw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avv359EMU_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAOdsxuU18I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeWpc6mjM4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn4UF5kJ4Y4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baGLYrPMabE
(it's mostly cello music because that's what I know most about)

>>68321521
My composition teacher apparently had dinner with Penderecki once (which I still can't quite get over, why is this guy teaching at a community college?). When asked what's lacking in classical music today, Penderecki said "counterpoint".

Unrelated, but now I want to try creating a contrapuntal texture with a tone row

>>68322231
Interesting statement about counterpoint, thanks for the videos too.

>>68322231
World is a pretty small place.

>comp
>dying
lol no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8SD3ToKDsw

>leading tone
>is not first

Is the G string on the violin quieter than a viola (not specifically it's G string)? Or is Finale being weird on me?

>>68324049
>implying finale does actually differentiate between strings.
Does it?

>>68324066
I have no idea, probably not but it's the only reason I can think of for why the violin is playing so damn quietly

>>68324142 get

>>68324147
kek

>>68324147 get

>>68324130
maybe just badly balanced sound samples. Is there a mixer?

Maybe your violin voice still is set on /piano from somewhere earlier in the score?

>>68324171
I don't think that's it. I have found the mixer though, so thanks

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>>68258803
Does anybody have the copypaste of all that classical music uploaded to Mega?

>>68324971
Wouldn't that be on /classical/?

>>68325120
Not on the current thread.

>>68324971
>>68325120
>>68325207
I have this link, but the copypaste included very valuable information that I miss, like dates:
https://mega.nz/#F!mMYGhBgY!Ee_a6DJvLJRGej-9GBqi0A

Do I have to get good at composition to understand what Schoenberg and Berg are doing?

Or do I just need to listen to it until atonal music sounds as familiar as tonal music?

>>68326056
>falling for the serialism meme

>>68326167
>thinking it's all Webern

>>68318462
Its on my list of "to do" works. I play guitar, and compose prolifically, just need to get around to actually writing a suite for guitar.

>>68319977
*not intelligent enough for

>>68326056
Just listen for timbres and interesting combinations of notes instead of melodies and traditional harmonies. Listen to sounds. Dont think of it as traditional music, think of it as a listening experience. Checking out the scores can help, as you see all the details the composers put in. If you listen as "interesting sound" instead of what you think of as music, you may start to enjoy it more.

>>68328219

I'm thinking of focusing on composing pre-common practice styles, almost into folk music, using mainly modes and avoiding diatonic harmony. Maybe some jazz influence as well. I feel like a unique style like this could help me get out there more

>>68329751
>pre-common practice styles
>almost into folk music, using mainly modes and avoiding diatonic harmony
>Maybe some jazz influence as well
Isn't that, quite ironically, more like post-common practice/early modern period style?

>>68329751
Have an early example of this sort of neo-modalism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crBUvtV6HOw
>>68329898
there're a lot of callbacks to the past in classical music if you hadn't noticed

>>68329751
By all means, write purely modal renaissance style music. It has been shown to work pretty well in popular music (simon&garfunkel, sting, steeleye span etc.)

Many composers also use a more modal, folk song influence, like Bartok, Tveitt, Janacek, etc.

It's not really going to be "unique" as such, depending on how you handle the material, but if its what you want to write, do it. I personally love modal stuff so I would enjoy it if it was written well, and held interest.

>>68329377

Now that I listen to what I've written of my string trio on Finale, it sounds really hollow. I mean not the instruments but the texture feels really spotty.

I have a feeling it's due to the lack of a well-formed bass part, but this isn't a standard tonal piece by any means (neotonal maybe), so I really have no idea what my bass should be doing here.

>>68317416
>Talking shit about someone because they talk shit about something.

Alrighty, Mr. Open-Minded.

>>68331748

>>68333246

>>68295754
Finished Viola Partita:
https://www.scribd.com/document/326921161/Viola-Partita
second 2 sections are pretty much the same as in that clyp.it, just added some detail, and added a first section. Runs at about 6 min (and for some reason some staff lines are missing on the scribd preview)

Might write a Guitar Suite next

>have to write a salsa/jazz style solo for tenor sax
>literally no idea how to
>due in 12 hours
help me /comp/

>>68335508

Don't these guys usually just improvise their way through? Do written jazz solos even exist?

>>68335634
They do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gG0j-35Mgk

>>68335634
when I handed my original composition in I had 'open for solos' written with the chords underneath but my tutor wants a written solo

>>68335992
record an improv solo in your DAW of choice using a MIDI keyboard, export as MIDI and import into your notation program of choice.

Or just record the improv straight into your notation program of choice.

Then just clean up the score a bit and add dynamics

final bump from nz

Hey /comp/
So I'm studying Music at university and I have my first piece of coursework due which is to compose an Impressionalist piece, following the works of Debussy. But I missed the preparation I needed to write the piece.
Are there any key elements I need to follow to get the best mark?

>>68337587
Non jazzy cluster chords and parallel structures?

>>68303359
i liked his taxi driver soundtrack

>>68337587
chromaticism, stacked dim and aug chords, absinthe

>>68337587
watch some impressionist paintings

>>68332231
post it?
>>68337587
>first piece of coursework is impressionist
weird but cool. Just take a look at a bunch of seminal Debussy piano solos. Really, impressionism isn't so much a thing as it is people only remembering specific pieces of debussy's corpus. Check out voiles (for the "tonality"), reverie (for the form, accompaniment, melody), la fille aux cheveux de lin (mainly to see one of the most famous moments of that parrallelism that >>68337682 is talking about)
Supplement it with Satie (go beyond Gymnopedie please, check out Nocturne no. 4, Embryons desséchés, caresse) and Ravel (Sonatina movement 2)

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What did they mean by this?

Any good jazz influenced piano concertos? I've heard Ravel's 1st in G something but wasn't that impressed.

>>68338349
a bit of a long shot but Schnittke's 1st symphony has a lot of jazz influence. I warn you its a bit of a clusterfuck though. Dont expect easy listening.

Expect to be looking through a broken window at a shitty soviet apartment block with an overweight old guy with his shirt off getting drunk with his dog

>>68338349
>jazz influenced classical music
top why