/classical/

Gesualdo is better than Monteverdi

Reminding that wagner is piece of shit

>>68251475
>>68252724
This

>>68251475
>>68252724
>>68253109
Wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et8B79uR2Pk
MacMillan is a genius.

>>68251463
Sang Viderunt with my close harmony group in a medieval concert we did. Real killer for the voice but so satisfying.
>>68252724
Dude was a racist who had enemas twice daily and died wearing a pink dressing gown, but c'mon Tristan was so fucking significant and progressive.
>>68253701
Agreed.

>>68253910
>Dude was a racist
hate to break it to you man, but pretty much every one was racist back in the day. hell, many people still are. People have always had disdain for jews, from Christopher Columbus killing jews in his spare time, to the Grande Armee being surprised (and disgusted) at flocks of Jews being allowed to roam free in Russia when they invaded in 1812. The Jews they came across sold food at exorbitant prices. Not even joking.

The only reason Wagner is remembered as an antisemite is that his writings were published or at least preserved, and he's famous enough that people actually care about his opinions.

>>68254171
fair enough, but it really makes you think...

>>68254171
You're wrong, most people at the time thought he was too anti-semitic. Please fuck off back to /pol/ and don't bother saying 'le /pol/ boogeyman', I know you're from there and you know you're from there. Go back.

>>68254212
"he was a racist antisemite so that must mean that his music was bad"

>>68254229
Nobody said that.

>>68254212
Eh I never go to /pol/, its mostly from my study of history that racism always seems to come up. Sure, he was racist, but it was more of the norm back then, I doubt anyone but jews would have cared that he hated jews. They'd be like, "haha, man you really hate those jews huh? you're certainly a man of strong conviction! so what's your latest opera about anyway?"

>>68253910
>>68254300

Wagner was an antisemite, but not racist. Looking at the history of german antisemitism, that's a pretty big difference.

>>68252724
But L'Orfeo and Vespro della beata Vergine are so unbelievable good.

>>68254642 meant for >>68251475

>>68254642
jews were perceived as a collective people rather than separating them into races and religions. call it racism, call it antisemitism, it was the same thing back then. They hated the people that were the jews. In those days, jews were essentially a race, a people inseparable from their religion. Sure there were different ethnicities of jew, but I'm sure people most non-jewish people held them all in equal disdain, and didn't care too much to delineate between them.

I dont really care about the matter but the point is racism is an inherent human property, you dislike someone because they are different. It takes an open mind or some conditioning in childhood to change it. Until recently, neither was widespread.

>>68255042
You're right overall, but Wagner's antisemitism was rather an "old german" one than the racist antisemitism Hitler and the Nazis promoted. So it's not so much antisemitism, because of race or ethnicity, but more because of the jews themselves, that were seen as bad greedy people, as murders of Christ and as devil-like caricatures; for example they are often depicted as red haired, (like Mime in Wagner's Ring). And yes, ethnicity was a part of the package here, but the concept of racism, judging by racial charasteristics alone, is something scientists came up with in the early 20th century to justify imperialism and nationalism.

So what we know as racism nowadays is at least for european something quite new.

>>68255246
>>68255042
>>68254300
>>68254212
>>68254171

Gee you guys sure do like talking about music don't ya.

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Hello, I'm a complete fag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRctb4TZSao&feature=youtu.be&t=586

I love the first bit of this piece. It sends chills down my spine. Just the first bit though because that's how shit I am.

Was just wondering if anyone can recommend anything else that might give me the shivers?
Yes I did get it from that bit in Legend of the Galactic Heroes.

>>68255246
Most people also forget that Wagner didn't outright call for Jews to fuck off, but rather he wanted them to integrate fully, which, in his opinion, many of them were not doing.

He had a lot of Jewish friends as well, some of which even performed/premiered his music.

>>68256124
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZKB126BxIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaYfVhmUrvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWwprJJnFRg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOu6l7PzYes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IaPsZ9y-0U

>>68256124
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9zndPdSeDA

Do you like the sound of brass choirs in general or more the calm harmonies in your example?

>>68251475
Gabrielli is better than both of them

>>68256124
petzold

Do we like Mozart now?

>>68257460
better ask yourself who you like less, mozart or haydn

>>68257490
they are both great!

>>68257460
/classical/ has always been a bastion of Mozarts criminally underrated status

>>68257460
/classical/ has always placed Mozart above all, where he belongs.

>>68251475
(not true, by the way.)

>>68257460
>now

>>68251463
Who would win in a fight, Debussy or Schoenburg?

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>>68259081
Arnold has all that arm strength from ping-pong, so it's obvious he'd win

mememememe

>>68259081
Schoenburg, no question

Mondonville vs Rameau?

this is not even an official thread, the mega links are gone and it's full of even lower shitposting than the shitposting we already had, fuck off.

>>68261672
>official thread
Don't be silly

>>68261672
>the mega links are gone
I don't see a problem with this.

>>68262591
It's good to have it because either someone asks for them or someone asks how to into classical where the answer is usually the same (listen to Mozart/the monks).
Granted there's still other monotonous things that happen in these threads but it helps avoid some.

>>68262949
>either someone asks for them or someone asks how to into classical where the answer is usually the same
You have a prime opportunity to mold how someone approaches art music and instead you send them off to trawl through large collections.

Where is the desire to make helpful charts and personal recommendations to strengthen the sense of community ?

>>68263105
We're all lazy assholes and CLT is pretending to be dead, and is also a lazy asshole.
I think Renaissanceanon updates his chart from time to time.

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>>68259081
Debussy would headbutt him to death

>>68263139
>We're all lazy assholes
How dreadfully boring.

>>68263245
This is still /mu/, one shouldn't get their hopes up.
I think it'd be better to focus on performances than what piece to listen to from a composer or what to listen to anyways. Performances are the part people seem to get caught up on. For the most part you can just listen to a composer's most notable pieces and be fine. I made a performance chart for pianists and conductors a while back if that means anything.

>>68263308
>This is still /mu/, one shouldn't get their hopes up.
Truer words have never been typed.

>I made a performance chart for pianists and conductors a while back if that means anything.
I would love to see it.

More than anything, it is my belief that some incendiary rhetoric is justified if it results in good discussion / banter. The more charts and personalized recommendations are made, the more discussion is likely to take place.

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>>68259081
Debussy because he wasn't a cuck nor would he write two pieces about being one

>>68264088
>mfw debussy cucked some bitch so hard she shot herself
truly the most patrician composer

why do people pretend messiaen is any good?

>>68264602
Because he was, serialism after him just seems tame in comparison

Looking for some Chopin/Satie tier classical music, any torrentz, playlists are much appreciate, thanks

>>68264632
>serialism after him
what did he mean by this?

>>68264692
the instrumental works of Stockhausen, Boulez, and others of the generation have no sense of ornamentation or mystic vision of Messiaen

>>68264669
Your thread was shit, glad you deleted it.
>chopin/satie
Literally nothing alike, kys and go back to listening to rock.

>>68264722
why bring up serialism at all?

and why only the instrumental works of Stockhausen, Boulez and others?

are you addicted to buzzwords anon?

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>>68264762
>are you addicted to memes anon?

Yes

>>68264669
>Chopin/Satie tier classical music
Be more specific please.

>>68264787
I am arrogantly asking for mu's favorites from the modernist era, looking for the artists that has similar melodic patterns and usage of dissonance.

>>68265125
petzold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnLy31-Z7E4

>>68265125
wew, if you delete this post now you might escape a whole lot of ridicule

>>68265125
>Chopin/Satie
>modernist era
>dissonance
Uhhhhh

>>68265175
thanks, was actually what I was looking for.

>>68265187
well, I don't mind ridicule, I might learn something new(even on /mu/. I don't claim to be particularly educated in music history, after all. I might as well have elitists correct the record than some boring wiki.

>>68265125
This is not what I asked. When I ask you to be more specific, you can give specific moods, compositions, performances, techniques, etc. that you want more of.

Phrases like "similar melodic patterns" or time periods aren't as helpful unless you're asking for a more academic context. They're too vague.

You might like some Scriabin piano sonatas, however.
https://youtu.be/oFn6202nrqk

This is a shot in the dark, as I am not quite sure what you are looking for.

>>68264506
>women
>not using boys to release your masculine energy
are you sure you know what patrician means?

PETZOLD
E
T
Z
O
L
D

>>68265521
fair point, I'll think of that next time, I am fan of pretty much all of their work but Satie's Gnossienne, even though a bit over represented is perhaps the area I am most interested in. thanks though

>>68265543
Incredible how i missed out on his work, all this time.

>tfw you realise Lheritier quotes Josquin's Huc me sydereo at the opening of his Si bona suscepimus

>>68265676
Can't tell if ironic, or if I am just mind numbingly new

>>68251463
What should be my first real piece to learn on violin?
I wanted to try a bach piece but they seem pretty difficult.

>>68266005
twinkle, twinkle little star

>>68266042
Yeah yeah I knew you were going to say that.
I've discovered a decent tone for myself already, I believe I'm ready to move on.

>>68266005
busoni maybe

>>68266005
Yeah the Bach sonatas are hard even for pro violinists. maybe try learning some traditional songs? the first noel or battle hymn of the republic for example.

>>68264669
Ravel, Arensky, Poulenc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVlrJG4xri8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPR4791zwz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRvDH9OTyXY

got a question, why is every mp3 of classical music so bad? they all sound so low. compared to any other kind of music mp3.
And I'm too lazy to tune up the volume to each track with a program.
so why the fuck is this shit allowed?

>>68268087
Classical music has a much larger dynamic range than most other genres. Its designed to be experienced live, where a very quiet note is easily audible in a concert hall. Recordings dont really do it justice. I find myself constantly having to adjust the volume, especially if I'm listening in a louder environment like at work or something. Unless its some kind of baroque harpsichord piece where the dynamics are pretty static, or renaissance vocal pieces where the dynamics are also pretty regular, most classical has quite a bit of range. And thankfully producers of classical music dont usually compress the shit out of it to make it radio friendly.

>>68268087
you are probably just used to dynamically sterile and overly-loud recordings (very common in popular music these days).

if one were to take a classical recording and squash the dynamics and participate in loudness wars, then the the contrasts between loud/quiet sections would be totally lost. classical isn't like popular music, it has a much greater emphasis on balances and dynamics, and therefore recordings made suit that purpose.

>>68268343
dude, most of the music I download has the volume so low I would need to put my speaker at 80%, can't listen on that volume, because a single noise from a game or windows would kill all living beings on the planet.

>>68268989
have you heard of replaygain you pleb?

>>68268989
>speakers
headphones are better anyway.

but, really, what's the issue here? you should be able to raise the volume of your media player independently. leave your speakers at whatever volume you're usually comfortable with, and then set your media player volume to max.

>>68269056
it's still dumb as fuck, having to set games and windows to 5% while leaving the media player with shitty songs at 100% and the speakers vol to maximun.

>>68269817
Have you tried not using music as background noise?

>>68266005
Go with the four memes :^)

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Is Bach the father of music?

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>>68270352
so they say

tfw your history of theory teacher is literally a Platonist but you nerd out about the Hegelian implications of the Orpheus myth in the enchiriadis tradition and Boethian musica as an opposition of appearance (Schein) and being (Sein) anyways

>>68270649
man i hate it when that happens

>>68270649
Hey SDF. You're a Staierfag, right?

>>68270649
You finally made it to burgerland?

Okay I just left swiped on one of my teachers see I'm a good person intent on avoiding sexual misconduct

>>68270753
Yes

>>68270785
I have been here for three weeks now!

>>68270837
>I just left swiped on one of my teachers
Lame.

>>68270888
Nah luv I have crushes with high drama potential already, the kind of which will not threaten my career

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>>68270837
Well, maybe you can figure this out. His new Schubert recording of the Trios is quite good, but in the Scherzando his group adds additional instrument ornamentation, in what sounds like some sort of percussion, a triangle, and some other instrument I cannot identify.

https://a.uguu.se/8Y8dCLwew3X1.mp3

It sounds perfectly fine, but I've literally never heard of this being utilized in other recordings, nor has anyone made any mention of it online. Bizarre stuff.

>>68270945
Pianos with percussion pedals were not uncommon in Vienna since Mozart's days. There's recordings of the Turkish rondo with them, too. Can't find it right now, but it's on YouTube somewhere.

>>68270837
How've you been liking it here?

Also, anyone familiar with this?
https://books.google.com/books?id=l6I6BwTMJ3sC
It seems like essential reading either way but I'm more curious about if the translation is good.

>>68271048
Huh. So it's coming from the piano? That's pretty interesting.

Thanks for clarifying. I can't find any other examples on Youtube either, though.

>>68271210
There you go. A very elaborate one from Vienna, 1815:
https://youtu.be/2OjYKvl5raM

>>68271130
I like it a lot. Unlike most European students, I find Midwestern politeness delightful. Been dealing with my heartbreaks in the last months in Vienna by making plans for even greater achievement.

>>68271281
Man, that's pretty great. What a lovely sound.

>>68271364
We have a couple of similar ones in the Austrian national library's instrument collection, that's how I know them.

>>68271281
Weird that these went out of fashion.
It sounds a little cheesy, but I kind of like the bassoon and reedy sound it can produce.

>>68258911
scaruffi

>tfw can't stop listening to Brahms chamber music
for some reason a lot of his stuff has been clicking with me lately

>>68271317
people in the midwest and south are stupidly polite, yeah

>>68252724

>implying The Ring isn't one of the greatest operatic cycles of all time

>>68271594
Well, to be fair Wagner's competition in the operatic cycle field is weak as fuck.

>>68271607

Because he blew them all out of the water so hard they look weak.

>>68271281
Better than the harpsichord.

>>68271607
What other operatic cycles are there?

>>68272083
Puccini's Il trittico and Stockhausen's Licht.

There are probably a few others, but I don't think they're very relevant.

>>68272206
Wagner really doesn't have much competition then.

Should I post a recording of myself playing a movement of a Bach cello suite? Or would that be more relevant elsewhere?

>>68272316
Sure, go for it

>>68271281
I love the sound, and the song, too
Does anyone know what it is or anything like it?

>>68272316
You should post it

>>68251463

hey i got this cd. good shit man

isn't this some of the oldest recorded music ever?

I'm the miraculous mandarin bitch

I'm going to rape you all

>>68272316
Unless it's no. 6 go fuck off

>>68272642
No, it's just some of the rare surviving pieces reliably attributed to a composer of that particular period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notre_Dame_school

Here's some earlier stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_chant#Early_sources_and_later_revisions

>>68272803
>>68272809
jesus christ Cal

>>68270837
Fuck her right in the pussy

>>68272818
petzold

>>68272818
>"""(((her)))"""

>>68273067
lol yeah but too much work

>>68271738
Literally everything is better than the harpsichord

>>68273395
why?

>>68273463
Harpsichord just rapes my ears. It sounds way too harsh and its frequency range is too shrill. There are a few harpsichord recordings that I can stand, but a lot of them are way too closed miked for my tastes.

In the concert hall, it's a lot easier on the ears because you're at a distance.

>>68273564
>It sounds way too harsh
You are like a little baby

>>68273576
Not an argument

>>68273585
Ok, though I agree with the frequency range sometimes making the notes incomprehensible, but I always found the tone of the harpsichord really good

>>68273698
Eh, it also depends on the harpsichord for me. Some aren't that bad.
Like I'm generally fine with whatever harpsichord Leonhardt uses on his recordings with Teldec. But some just give me a headache.

>>68271281
>During the late 18th century, Europeans developed a love for Turkish band music, and the Turkish music style was an outgrowth of this. According to Good, this was possibly started "when King Augustus the Strong of Poland received the gift of a Turkish military band at some time after 1710". "Janissary" or "janizary"" refers to the Turkish military band that used instruments including drums, cymbals, and bells, among other loud, cacophonous instruments. Owing to the desire of composers and players to imitate the sounds of the Turkish military marching bands, piano builders began including pedals on their pianos by which snare and bass drums, bells, cymbals, or the triangle could be played by the touch of a pedal while simultaneously playing the keyboard.

Even our instruments like being cucked.

>>68251475
Palestrina and Tallis piss on them both from the highest chimney.

>>68273913
Turks are white

>>68274043
Oh dear.

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>>68274279
This is a turk

Is anyone still writing decent chamber music?

>>68274935
Lachenmann, Ferneyhough, Psathas, Auerbach, Fairouz, Haas.

Haas' string quartets in particular are excellent.

Is frank zappa an actual classical composer? I've never checked him out, he's listed among other modern classical composers on wikipedia

>>68275018
technically yes, but not worth listening to compared to the actual masters of his period like Penderecki, Lutoslawski, Schnittke, Pärt, PMD, Stockhausen, Dutilleux, Yoshimatsu, Adams, Reich, Grisey, Murail, etc.

What was the very first piece of classical music?

>>68276136
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBhB9gRnIHE
It was written down, so technically classical music

>>68276237
sounds gay

>>68276136
Can't say about pieces in general, but this is the first unequivocal masterpiece of the classical era (1777)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFa9WGOkZ48

>>68272330
>>68272545
Alright, then, I'll try posting it by the end of today.

Mozart's Requiem is pretty neato

Why is /classical/ so dead?

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>>68251463

>>68275126
>>68275126

/CLASSICAL BLINDFOLD TEST/

>tfw my application to direct an opera got rejected

Oh well, at least I can get my petty revenge by giving it an awful review when it inevitably is awful.

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What did they mean by this?

Is IMSLP the best resource for sheet music or is there anything better?

>>68278902

CPDL is ok for finding vocal (mainly choral) music that IMSLP either doesn't have or has in a funny format, but at the same time some of the typesettings of music there is a bit funky.

But yeah for the most part IMSLP is the best resource going.

>>68278714
probably some drones and chanting

I LOVE MOZART

I never seen a classical composer reffered to as "bad", is there any composer that just really sucked? A composer that wasn't just mediocre, but very plainly could not write anything decent at all?

>>68280570
Fuck off

>>68280672
Holst.

>>68280827
For real?

>>68280672
Rachmaninoff

>>68280672
I always thought Debussy sucked balls t.b.h.

>>68280878
Nah, he wrote decent music.

>>68280672
Well the 'bad' ones aren't very well-known. And they're not often called bad, so much as forgettable or derivative.

And the other thing is that even mediocre composers trained extensively. For the majority of classical music's existence, composers would have studied theory+composition for many years, generally in conjunction with being a performing musician, since music was basically their entire livelihood. The only people who could pursue composition as a hobby were noblemen (or women) who had no need to earn a living out of it.

This model started to deteriorate within the Romantic era to an extent, but it is still the case that composers (who are taken seriously) will have studied music at university/conservatoire or privately with other composers.

ded

>>68280672

>>68280976 this

But to be honest, I've always thought there are a few composers, that lack a good sense of aesthetic: For example Rachmaninov, Mahler, Berlioz and Lyapunov

I'm not saying said are bad, but listening to their music, I always think "that part doesn't belong there".
Mahler and Berlioz are far too loud in many cases, while Wagner and Bruckner got figured that out better. Lied von der Erde is still one of the best compositions of the 19/20th century though.

Lyapunov is a far worse Rimsky-Korsakov.
And about Rachmaninoff. He just puts his dies irae everywhere and just doesn't bring up nice themes enough or just too often. His orchestration annoys me as well.

>>68282595
Mahler isn't really that loud if you listen to dynamically accurate recordings. No louder than Wagner and Bruckner, anyway. And very often considerably more quiet than Bruckner.

>>68266005
Do a Handel sonata.

>>68252724
t. Morty Goldberg

>>68280922
this

>>68280672
All impressionist music except Faure

>>68282906
I know, it's not as loud as Bruckner, but listening to Mahler I always have the feeling it doesn't fit well or is just too much, while Bruckner got that figured out - most of the time.

For example, I've never thought Bruckner's Te deum is too loud, despite being one monumental piece of music, that does like everything to be as loud as possible, while Mahler's first movement of the 6th symphony is just noise for a very good part in my ears.

Mahler is aesthetically unpleasent to listen to for me.

>>68283115
Well that's a bit harsh, isn't it?

>>68283164
Well, I can't really defend the 6th symphony that much since it's not really a favorite for me either. And it's by-and-far his loudest piece overall (except, perhaps, the 8th symphony, but that is actually quite quiet for the majority of its second movement).

Some people think rather highly of the 6th, though. It hasn't really caught onto me just yet.

>that moment in The New World where Doner's bit in Rheingold leading into Abendlich strahlt is playing for the first time after hearing nothing but the massive static harmony of the prelude and then the valhalla theme, with a ladder reaching up into the heavens as Pocahontas pledges herself to Love.

Malick does know how to use music

>>68282595

Berlioz is a bit muddled but I think that's more because there are so many innovative things in his music that he didn't develop them as well as he could have done.

And yeah, Rach's tendency to stick the dies irae in everything is pretty tiresome. Particularly since he seems to get away with it without critique because it's mostly in the orchestral works and they rarely get programmed together so it just seems like he's being clever in using it rather than stuffing it into everything. There are other ways of making your music sound dark and spoopy. Was there not some orthodox chant he could pilfer instead?

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>Boulez

The more recent Penderecki is pretty good actually
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w3uKwGRWhY

>>68284046
this hurts my eyes

>>68285719
just like his music would hurt your ears

>>68285155
Penderecki has always been good, and always will be. One of the great masters of our time