Is "indie music" just a buzzword marketed to people

>dat middle row

Jesus fucking christ

>>61818613
what's wrong with it

>>61818629
I'd rather listen to Katy Perry that any of that shit

>major label releases
>indie

What fuck?

>>61818661
>not rock
>indie

What fuck?

it's just a catchall because "alternative," the word that probably should be used, was already taken by a different sound.

>>61818569
that first column is totally different to the rest and you know it

>>61818652
It's not supposed to represent good music. The point is that there's no difference in quality between Katy Perry and these 'artists' and that listening to them does not make you better than the average top 40 listener.

>>61818569
there is literally nothing wrong with the chart on the far right

literally
nothing
wrong

>>61820029
>Pavement
>Joy Division

>>61820060
Yeah, they're great bands, but what's your point?

>>61820060
as I said

literally
nothing
wrong

>>61818877
Obviously the music you listen to doesn't make you better than anyone, but if you honestly can't tell the difference between someone like Katy Perry and Joanna Newsom then you're a fucking joke.

Now's the part where you go "hurr the difference is Katy actually has a good voice" because you're so funny and clever.

File: k.jpg (288KB, 1324x992px) Image search: [Google]

288KB, 1324x992px

>>61820029
Really, they're basic P4K-core

>>61820150
Doesn't make them bad though.

>>61820122
Neither has any more artistic merit than the other. I'm not defending Katy Perry. This isn't a "pop>indie" post.

>>61818718
yes, death grips and joanna newsom definitely have the same sound

>>61820185
>Neither has any more artistic merit than the other

What makes you say that? I mean the whole idea of what artistic merit even constitutes is shaky at best, but I don't understand how you can possibly say that something like Ys isn't vastly more interesting artistically than anything Katy Perry has touched.

>>61820158
You're a hypocrite if you say any artist on the right is better than the left. Either way, it's all trash produced for kids who think they're "unique"..
>>61820236
Newsom is just "trendy" music for people to show off to their friends.

>>61820301
That isn't an argument.

>>61820329
It is, last time I checked. Newsom has no artistic merit than a bowl of cereal and so do all these other indie bands. Pretentious does not equal artistic.

>>61820374
What are some of your favorite artists?

>>61820150
I don't use/read P4K or any of those type of websites.

Unknown Pleasures, Doolittle, Daydream Nation and Spiderland are very nice. If you disagree, you're essentially a walking video game.

>>61820374
Once again, not an argument.

Like you people put so much effort into trying to feel superior to others that it's legitimately baffling.

>>61818686
Most of those albums on OP's pic are rock.

>>61820406
>implying I play video games
Video games are one of the least intelligent forms of entertainment.

>>61820374
>Newsom has no artistic merit
How do you measure artistic merit? Where you there when she recorded the album?

>>61820374
>Newsom has no artistic merit
Says who?

>>61818569
major labels have bought all of the indie labels so it's why we get shit like on left now.

there's no difference between indie and mainstream. indie is dead, only people that still use that term are teenagers

>>61820374
Lmao youve been brainwashed by /mu/

>>61820444
browsing /mu/ is probably way less "intelligent" than playing video games desu

>>61820543
How is that?

indie is top40 bullshit but worse because other pop artists have vocal talent and good production

indie is like

>male vocals with no range
>basic "lol i hate myself and am awkward but still get out a lot and am circumstancially happy" lyrics
>same few riffs and keys that are likely stolen from somewhere else
>annoying, cheap synths that are simultaneously too high and too low
>"WOAH-OH"
>"LA LA LA LA LA"
>"BAP BA"
>choppy acoustic guitar with the vocalist straining his groot-like vocal chords

fuck indie

>>61820430
These 'indie' listeners are the ones who think they're superior. My point is that these musicians are no more artistic than the people on Hot 100. They know how to sound pretentious enough to make critics praise them while having no shred of artistic merit whatsoever.
>>61820393
Cardiacs, Captain Beefheart, The Mothers of Invention. At least they aren't obnoxious assholes and act super pretentious like these "indie" bands. Ooh, not smiling and being smarmy in interviews! Great way to make your music seem more artistic. Name one band in my indie chart that doesn't do this.

>>61818569
Why did you pile some nice post-dad rock with a bunch of youtube bands?

fuck you you fucking meme shitter

I bet you only watch flicks and listen to tunes

>>61820482
There's still music being produced outside of majors and their affiliated small labels.

Which is what "indie" is and why it still exists.
The question of wether it points to a specific sound and as such deserves to be included in the description of the music genre is a different matter.

>>61820578
frank zappa is easily one of the most prententious guys in the history of music

>>61820578
You've got a nice taste actually. Captain Beefheart is GOAT.

>>61820563
>indie is top40 bullshit
Most top 40 artists are not independent artists you dope.

>>61820578
>Captain Beefheart
>not an obnoxious asshole
>not super pretentious

>>61820639
no but they still call it indie because of the style of music

it's like grunge bands that aren't from seattle

>>61820578
>Frank Zappa
>Not being a pretentious obnoxious asshole

Come on.

>>61820578
>Captain Beefheart, The Mothers of Invention.
>At least they aren't obnoxious assholes and act super pretentious

Holy shit dude. Either you're a troll or this is fucking hilarious.

But yeah you still haven't explained why she has any less artistic merit. You're a joke.

>>61820672
>no but they still call it indie because of the style of music
What style do you mean?

>>61820578
>At least they aren't obnoxious assholes and act super pretentious like these "indie" bands. Ooh, not smiling and being smarmy in interviews! Great way to make your music seem more artistic.
Very interesting musical criticism

>>61820672
Grunge is shit.
>>61820609
I don't know what you mean by "watching flicks and listening to tunes" but all of the "nice post-dad rock" bands in the picture convey the same amount of artistic merit as the "YouTube bands", which is none.

>>61820700
↓
>>61820563

>>61820693
Makes bland, vapid orchestrated pop for P4K drones to eat up.

>>61820150
When did we stop being allowed to listen to the classics?
How obscure should we go before you stop shitting on us from your high horse?

>>61820729
They're far more aesthetic than the YouTube bands

>>61820742
No I mean specific musical analysis, not
>Stop liking what I don't like!

File: spork.gif (14KB, 320x200px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 320x200px

>>61820578
I giggle autistically as I make this post.

>>61820772
If an album has more than 1k rym ratings its shit

>>61820772
Try listening to musicians who aren't/weren't blatantly trying to get critical acclaim.
>>61820777
>aesthetic
Nice buzzword.

>>61820578
How do you feel about Magma and Gentle Giant?

>>61820578
What is your favorite Cardiacs song?

>>61820813
This guy is right.
>>61820792
>spork
Nice meme. Ha ha, I'm so amused

>>61820813
epic :)

File: excellent_quality.jpg (51KB, 625x626px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 625x626px

>>61820789
i'm going to call you an autistic faggot and then cease to reply

>>61820617
yeah sure. but far as indie goes I consider stuff like TWIABP using that term correctly.

>>61820770
Throwing around meaningless buzzwords still isn't an argument.

>>61820844
You're the one without arguments though.

>>61820844
What are the specific musical characteristics of indie?

PRO-TIP: "choppy acoustic guitar" was alreday listed, but cannot be since many Indie bands have electric guitar instrumentation. Try again?

>>61820813
>rym
You know that site is primarily for teenagers right?

>>61820813
the entire bottom 100 confirmed for not shit

>>61820813
I know what you mean, same with imdb

anything rated above a 6 inauthentic meme garbage and every below 6 is the actual stuff worth watching

File: dubslel.jpg (37KB, 248x249px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 248x249px

czech em

>>61820888
All /mu/core is garbage
Any album P4K has rated 9+ is pretentious garbage

>>61820561
Because this board (much like pretty much every other board on 4chan) is just filled with memes and contrarianism. You're better off finding someone (non-pleb) irl and talking to them

>>61820578
Actually Joanna Newsom doesn't come off as pretentious at all in interviews with the same music websites that she receives all the acclaim from. It definitely isn't pretentiousness that got her all the attention she did, it was her music itself.

Also Zappa and Beefheart are the most pretentious artists of all time possibly, so I would stop trying to make that point. Beefheart would beat the shit out of his band after they played 18 hours of music on empty stomachs to maintain complete control of them, so if his attitude about his own superiority as a musician wasn't pretentious then I don't know what is.

>>61820578
>making music for critical acclaim is no more artistic than making music for commercial gain
nice meem

>>61820813
>Calling Pitchfork pretentious
>While saying pretentious shit like this

This is clearly bait, come on.

>>61820950
Newsom is a lunkhead. She married Andy Samberg and both produce vapid material for fellow lunkheads to lose brain cells to

>>61820816
critical acclaim=/=blatantly trying to get critical acclaim
I'm just gonna listen to what I like and I like 4/6 of the classic indie and Arctic Monkeys

>>61821007
If you insist, though I don't see why you'd want to.

>>61820950
Not to say Joanna Newsom isn't sincere (I don't know her)

but I think you're mixing up the word pretentious with the word sincere

some people are just edgy by default

>>61821032
See >>61820998

>>61821048
Oh do you know her personally?

>>>61821032
No, I mean that nowhere in her interviews does she imply that her music is on some higher level of art, unlike Beefheart and Zappa did.

>>61821025
You are so autistic

>>61821048
is Joanna Newsom a pop artist or what or one of the indie people?

regardless, what I'm saying is it's not uncommon at all to come off as "pretentious" to outsiders. It's a problem some people have, like stuttering or just being autistic

>>61821105
No, I'm not.

>>61821128
The Indie artists ARE the pop artists. It's all pop music.

>>61818569
joanna newsom is amazing and some of those "classic" indie albums are great

i'm not a fan of any of the tumblr/"alt-radio" indie column

>>61821165
Most Indie is really poppy. I prefer listening to it than to pretentious assholes like Zappa though.

>>61821165
Are you conflating pop music and popular music again? Newsom, SY and Slint are hardly pop.

>>61821217
all of those are ear candy my man
SY makes guitar pop for teeny boppers

>>61821217
>Newsom, SY and Slint are hardly pop
they aren't hardly pop, they have absolutely no traces of pop music in their music at all

>>61821202
I'm not even a huge Zappa fan, His early stuff like Lumpy Gravy was good but his music did get really pretentious.

>>61821245
>>61821217
SY makes catchy noise rock, yeah. I don't understand what's the matter with that.

>>61821245
this post makes no sense

>>61818569
Deerhunter stands up to the guys on the right desu

>>61821245
>>61821274
Whether they're "catchy" or "accessible" has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're pop since those are 100% subjective.

>>61821297
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1454&v=Z75qsaak9Po
listen to this for 5minutes and then reread my post

>>61821261
Pretentious af. Saw an interview of him once where he describes how unique and specialized he is because he plays solo's live that he'll never record nor put on wax... so basically improvisation.

>>61821317
What i'm trying to say it's that there's nothing wrong with SY having catchy choruses, because, while having that, they offer stuff that the TOP 40 doesn't offer.

>>61821362
*nor play again

my bad senpai

>>61821365
SY are just for shades-wearing poseurs.

>>61821261
>did get really pretentious.
I don't listen to zappa but WHAT THE FUCK does that mean?


Am I the only person on earth who has never, not once, ever thought a song is pretentious?

I unironically believe it is word that should be removed from the english language

>>61821388
>attacking your generalised perception of the fanbase rather than the music itself
Classic /mu/ criticism.

>>61821365
what stuff?

>>61821411
plebs don't like pretentiousness

makes them nervous

>>61821411
Listen to Zappa and you'll understand, really.
There's pretentious music, as there is pretentious literature or paintings, it happens. It's true that it's an overused word, but Zappa is well known for being pretentious.

>>61821431
Their music gives off a bratty, immature "we don't give a fuck" attitude. They just got worse and worse as they got Jim O'Rourke on board and acted like they were avant-garde kings.

>>61820374
> Newsom has no artistic merit
> Newsom
> no
> artistic
> merit

>>61821411
see
>>61821362

File: malkmus face.jpg (29KB, 96x115px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 96x115px

Pavement is good.

>>61821512
this isn't music criticism

this is you continuing to justify your shit onions with ad hominems

>>61818569
Indie Music is a warped term. All it is is music that is released independently. That's it. Nothing more. If it's not on a major label, it's indie. It has literally nothing to do with the quality of the music or the sound.

>>61821522
It probably took you a couple of minutes to find their album on the /mu/core chart and download their discography off thepiratebay. Well done, sir.

>>61821457
stuff like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_4e8Tq-CKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JGBNkLM9_8 (the way the tracks plays with the harmonies to change the feeling of the song)

It's true that they give this feeling of being a bit pretentious too, and they look like horrible people that i wouldn't want to have around, but their music is decent.

>>61821493
>pretentious pretentious pretentious
>there, that should make my point

File: malkmus disbelief.png (538KB, 792x479px) Image search: [Google]

538KB, 792x479px

>>61821596
Get a load of this guy.

>>61821617
Good for you, you can post Malkmus memes to try to discredit my opinions.

>>61821512
>Their music gives off a bratty, immature "we don't give a fuck" attitude.
How does it do this, exactly? Can you give specific examples?

Also, how does this affect the quality of their compositions?

>>61821656
>It probably took you a couple of minutes to find their album on the /mu/core chart and download their discography off thepiratebay. Well done, sir.

what opinions?

>>61821615
Hahaha sorry, i should have expressed myself better. Do you know what's the definition of pretentiousness? there's not much to understand really. If you're familiar with Zappa's work you end up accepting it, him being pretentious doesn't mean he's bad.

File: malkmus love.png (279KB, 500x387px) Image search: [Google]

279KB, 500x387px

>>61821656
Your opinions are your opinions.
I'm not trying to discredit them.
But assumptions about my music consumption aren't opinions, just unnecessary misrepresentations, as if the quality of music had anything to do where it was found.

>>61821656
what opinions?

>>61821517
So you mean it's not the music that's pretentious but rather guy behind it?

I googled and started listening to this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUxJQlOKj38

I got a few minutes in. Not really feeling the pretentiousness 2bh. Not my thing, but it is what it is. Pretty colorful.

>>61821664
I can and will.

"He's running on a tuff gnarl in his head
He's got a fatal erection home in bed
He's really smart and he's really fast
He's got a hard tit killer fuck in his past"

"Fuck you! Are you for sale?
Does 'Fuck you' sound simple enough?
This was the only part that turned me on"

"Boys go to jupiter to get more stupider
Girls go to mars, become rock stars"

Real mature. This sounds like shit a 15-year-old would write on the inside of his desk.

>>61821724
I get to see more Malkmus pics? Man, this is really my day.

>>61821613
>they look like horrible people that i wouldn't want to have around
what??

why do people say this stuff. What kind of people do you hang around with?

>>61820578
Wait are you trying to be cringy or is this just what /mu/ has come to?

File: malk so weird.jpg (125KB, 300x300px) Image search: [Google]

125KB, 300x300px

>>61821824
Have another.

>>61821838
Just search interviews from those guys, i'll give you a cookie if you don't end up thinking they're a bunch of cunts.

>>61821741
it's pretentious because he made pop music but pretended like he didnt make pop music

it comes off really contrived when someone cant admit to themselves they make pop music and not some intellectual 2deep4u art music

this is why he was never as acclaimed as the beatles, the beatles were true to themselves and their art

>>61821755
>citing lyrics

hahaha what a legend
10/10

>>61821943
He asked for specific examples, I gave him specific examples. It's as simple as that.

>>61821902
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYu3UsNIXMM

legit seems like a nice guy

>>61821920
right I see

so you would say he has listeners that are aware of his pretentiousness, but don't just care then? likely either because they don't care about such stuff and/or because it doesn't affect the music

>>61821902
>letting the artists view affect how you listen to their music

pleb

>>61821755
>"He's running on a tuff gnarl in his head
>He's got a fatal erection home in bed
>He's really smart and he's really fast
>He's got a hard tit killer fuck in his past"
I don't see what's so bad about these lyrics. They obviously aren't great but they aren't exactly cringeworthy either.
I don't really know what he's talking about, though. I assume it's some obscure PKD reference I don't get.

>"Fuck you! Are you for sale?
>Does 'Fuck you' sound simple enough?
>This was the only part that turned me on"
From what I've read, the spoken word segment at the start of that song was influenced by a walk through NYC where Kim Gordon wrote down what she heard as she walked past a bunch of prostitutes in the street. It's meant to evoke imagery of New York's seedy underbelly. I think it does the job quite effectively.

>"Boys go to jupiter to get more stupider
>Girls go to mars, become rock stars"
I don't recognise these lyrics so I'm guessing they're from one of their post-DDN albums, which I don't particularly care for. Regardless, they're most likely tongue-in-cheek.

I think dismissing an entire band's musical output based on the tone of a small portion of their lyrics is far more immature than any of these extracts, but that's just me. Lee Ranaldo was the superior lyricist in the band, anyway.
>Shots ring out from the center of an empty field
>Joni's in the tall grass
>She's a beautiful mental jukebox
>A sailboat explosion
>A snap of electric whipcrack

>She's not thinking about the future
>She's not spinning her wheels
>She doesn't think at all about the past
>She's thinking long and hard
>About that high wild sound
>And wondering will it last?

>>61822080
I was talking about the SY members there. I don't think Zappa was a bad man, he used to say pretentious things and unnecesary stuff about other musicians, that's all. Once he got older he got less grumbler.

>>61822137
I literally said that while they're assholes i think their music is decent m8.

>>61820887
you don't understand basic logic do you

>>61821856
Wow! Hilarious! Magnificent! Just amazing! Care to post more Malkmus for me, kind anon? You're making my day!

File: malkmus old.jpg (47KB, 960x717px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 960x717px

>>61822398
Sure thing.

>>61821968
he asked for examples of MUSIC that made them appear bratty

lyrics arent music

>>61822080
if people dig his music they'll listen to it. i don't think it was bad or anything, he was very good, just a bit pretentious

>>61823134
whats wrong with being pretentious?

>>61823173
as i said earlier, it takes away from ones art when it's not true to itself

zappa wrote pop tunes, but deluded himself into thinking his pop tunes were better than everyones elses (like when he shits on the beatles) because he was such a special snowflake.

"when i play something live, ill never play that again. people dont understand that, but thats what its about for me. i dont record a solo. I play it differently every time" or something like that when improvisation had been a thing for decades - this is pretentiousness

if he thought pop was so disgusting maybe he should have made art music, then there wouldn't have been such a rub

>>61818652
>implying Deerhunter and Johanna Newsom are worse than Katy Perry

This says more about your shitty taste in music desu

>>61823353
um dude zappa was the biggest piss taker. I think you're taking him more serious than he ever did

>>61823769
if he doesnt take himself seriously thats his problem

if dubs /mu/ is deleted

>>61818569
Yes, through check out both pitchfork/fantano core and classic indie as there well respected.
Okay maybe not Grimes but i digged her latest album so go for it if you want some fun actually interesting pop.