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music genres

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how do you define post rock?
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No real chorus. Often no lyrics. Touch on rock techniques like guitar solo for instance but never really give it simple attention a rock band would. And they use basic rock instruments.
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There really isn't a reliable way to define post-rock pre-2nd wave (and therefore as a whole) other than mutual intelligibility and//or publications, although "prog for indie people" is a decent one.
>>
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screechy weird guitar shit and pretentious fanboys
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>>52105607
So misleading it hurts.
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>>52105642
We always hurt the ones we love.
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>>52105558
90s rock that wasn't indie or alternative or metal or britpop that hipsters like a lot that didn't really get lots of attention by music press until much later on
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>>52105673
>90s rock
Strikes one, two, and three, you're out.
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>>52105704
your definition is pretty shit too. it's just a cop out.
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my friend says that post rock is rock made after the era when rock was on top (pink Floyd and stuff)
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non rock music played with rock instruments
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>>52105733
You're not wrong.
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>>52105776
so is Muse post rock? I don't think so
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>>52105733
>it's just a cop out.
Which part ? I'm speaking from having researched the topic and having tried to come to many different definitions, all of which have been insufficient.

>>52105776
Creed is now post-rock.

>>52105785
Not good enough. See: Macha

>>52105789
[better source needed]
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It's rock but not
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>>52105861
Too vague.
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>>52105841
>[better source needed]
I can't define why your definition is crap.
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>>52105923
>I cannot support my statements yet I feel secure in making them from the sidelines and then cowering when challenged
hmm
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>>52105558
guitars used mainly for texture
influenced by jazz or ambient half the time
piano's and field recordings/
Also depends on what wave you can refer to

but that's it in a nutshell
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>>52105977
There has to be a definition though. If you can listen to something and drop it in the post-rock bucket, then there is some definition. How can you defend
>There really isn't a reliable way to define post-rock
as a definition?
>>
Mix rock, jazz and classical. Don't use typical structure of neither of these genres.
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>>52106007
This guy gets it
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some rock instrumentation, with more distorted basslines and more generous use of synth. compositions more like drone songs which often develop large soundscapes and rely less on hooks to keep the listener's interest.
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>>52105558
take rock, add pretentious buildups and unnecessary instrumentation, have a crescendo, and use distortion/feedback
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>>52105558
according to RYM:

> Post-Rock is a term popularized by music critic Simon Reynolds. In Reynolds' words, it refers to "using rock instrumentation for non-rock purposes, using guitars as facilitators of timbre and textures rather than riffs and power chords."

> A succinct description of the genre's sound is difficult because of the diverse influences bands in the Post-Rock scene employ, but one can generally say that it derives primarily from a mix of Ambient, Space Rock, Experimental Rock, Krautrock, and styles on the "wall-of-sound" end of the Alternative Rock spectrum, such as Shoegaze. Some Post-Rock bands also dabble in Math Rock, Tape Music, Minimalism, and various forms of Jazz, but application of these styles is by no means uniform.

seems to make enough sense
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>>52106007
>guitars used mainly for texture
Who is Friends of Dean Martinez

>influenced by jazz or ambient half the time
This is actually a decent point, although not fully fleshed out - Post-Rock is frequently defined by the influences going in, and little else. This often includes Krautrock, lounge music, Western Art Music (Minimalist and avant-garde movements, especially), local influences, folk, ambient, jazz, other rock sources, noise music, field recordings, and so on. Stereolab is an obvious example of this (minimalist and lounge music tendencies).

>>52106033
>There has to be a definition though.
see >>52105613
>reliable
When you have a term so poorly-thought out used as a blanket term for anything too weird for the alt-rock scene, you're not going to have a stable term with a precise definition. As it is, the genre becomes the most homogeneous after Lift Yr Skinny Fists like Antennas to Heaven, at which time it becomes easily defined. This is also part of a larger argument (that post-rockers turned inwards with influence- looking at other bands in the scene more than their outside influences), but we can save that for another time.

>>52106078
Not really.

>>52106094
Who is Explosions in the Sky
Who is Ganger

>>52106112
Hilariously ignorant.
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>>52106210
Simon Reynold's definition is insufficient, and the second one supports what I have been saying.
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>>52106224
>Friendo called me ignorant
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>>52106448
Yeah, I did. Because you don't know the subject you're trying to talk about.
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>>52106520
stop bullying me
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Might as well get this out of the way.
Official list of trve post-rock, for hardcore badasses ONLY.
Poseurs (b-but 'x' isn't post-rock!) not welcome.

Durutti Column - The Return of the Durutti Column
Pan American - Pan American
Ganger - Hammock Style
Tarentel - Ghetto Beats From The Surface of the Sun
Sam Prekop - Sam Prekop
Disco Inferno - The 5 EP's
Boris & Merzbow - Rock Dream
Deerhunter - Halcyon Digest
Exhaust - Enregistreur
Do Make Say Think - Goodbye Enemy Airship the Landlord is Dead
Jim O'Rourke - Bad Timing
Gastr Del Sol - Camofleur
Roy Montgomery - Temple IV
Set Fire to Flames - Signs Reign Rebuilder
Southpacific - Constance
The Evpatoria Report - Golevka
Bowery Electric - Beat
Stereolab - Emperor Tomato Ketchup
Jessamine - Jessamine
Moonshake - Eva Luna
Labradford - Prazision LP
The Samuel Jackson Five - Easily Misunderstood
Brokeback - Field Recordings From the Cook County Water Table
Tribes of Neurot / Walking Time Bombs - Static Migration
Lift to Experience - The Texas Jerusalem Crossroads
Macha - See it Another Way
Manta Ray - Manta Ray
Shalabi Effect - Feign to Delight Gaiety of Gods
Circle - Prospekt
Rhys Chatham - An Angel Moves too Fast to See
Ewa Braun - Stereo
Pram - The Stars are so Big, the Earth is so Small... Stay as You Are
John Fahey & Cul De Sac - The Epiphany of Glenn Jones
Laika - Sounds of the Satellites
Friends of Dean Martinez - The Shadow of Your Smile
Tortoise - A Lazarus Taxon
Flying Saucer Attack - Flying Saucer Attack
Bark Psychosis - Hex
Hood - Cabled Linear Tracion
Seven Percent Solution - All About Satellites and Spaceships
Th' Faith Healers - Imaginary Friend
Th' Faith Healers - Lido
Spiritualized - Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space
Stereolab & Nurse With Wound - Simple Headphone Mind
Fridge - Sevens and Twelves
The American Analog Set - From Our Living Room to Yours
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>>52106224
I was really simplifying that's what in a nutshell means.

Just because your descriptions are more fleshed out and pretentious doesn't take credibility away from those that are just trying to help others out.
>>
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I consider post-rock to be more of a scene than a genre personally
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Slower tempo prog without the jazz.
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>>52106603
none of those are post-rock
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>>52106721
end your life
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>>52106602
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLh_mvFG974

>>52106608
>I was really simplifying that's what in a nutshell means.
Oversimplification is earnestly misleading, which is just as useful as someone maliciously misleading.
>more fleshed out and pretentious
You're misusing that word.
>pre┬Ěten┬Ětious
>Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.
They would be pretentious if they were incorrect. The fact that you used "more fleshed out" shows me that you're only saying "pretentious" because you feel bad about being corrected. It's nothing personal, you just gave a bad definition.
> doesn't take credibility away from those that are just trying to help others out.
Nobody cares about your intent. This is a board for music discussion. If you mislead people, you're going to get corrected. You aren't credible by your own doing, not mine.

>>52106642
There certainly was a post-rock scene (several, actually), but that's not really helpful in this sense as much of what we know as post-rock was created outside of such scenes (Durutti Column comes to mind).

>>52106721
Just leave the thread if all you can do is inane shitposting.
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how about this? Music usually with a rock instrumentation with an exploratory mindset that uses popular genre influences, such as lounge, blues, jazz, and rock itself.
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>>52106894
So, Krautrock.
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>>52106894
And basically all alternative rock.
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>>52106763
that song is shit
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>>52106951
Not as shit as your tastes, I reckon.
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>>52106974
please stop bullying
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A genre that uses rock instrumentation to produce something that isn't rock. Usually it lacks choruses, riffs or some other common rock structures, and is deeply influenced by ambient and sometimes by drone or jazz. Mh?
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>>52106919
I'd argue that krautrock didn't use rock as an influence, because anglo rock and german rock are what happens when two isolated scenes use the same influences. I can't write well so my ideas appear muddled and I'm sorry for that but kreatrock, because it formed the same time anglo rock was forming couldn't use rock as an influence
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How do you define post-rap?
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>>52107009
So, Krautrock.

>>52107020
Pink Floyd and Yes were huge influences cited by some Kraut-rocker bands. Here's a citation for Kraftwerk
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2008/feb/22/vinylword.joequeenan

>it formed the same time anglo rock was forming
Pink Floyd were getting radio play in the late 60's, while most of the Krautrock bands were cited as popping up and being active more towards the early 70's.
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>>52107181
i see your point. So I guess post rock is anglo kraut rock. unless if there's german post rock bands?
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>>52107181
Are you trying imply that genre's can't have overlap?
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>>52107290
http://www.discogs.com/artist/520159-Daturah
These guys are from Frankfurt.

>>52107308
Are you trying to imply that having a definition which wholly envelops two massive collections of records commonly agreed to be of separate labels is having an "overlap" and not just being too vague ?
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>>52105558
s
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>>52107345
What a fucking insufferable idiot.
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Rock without attitude.
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>>52107430
>throwing a tantrum because you're wrong
Settle down, child.

>>52107490
Who is Public Image LTD
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>>52107345
>Are you trying to imply that having a definition which wholly envelops two massive collections of records commonly agreed to be of separate labels is having an "overlap" and not just being too vague ?
Yes. Music isn't scientific. It can't always be perfectly categorized like the elements because it doesn't have strict unbreakable laws. It's the same as arguing the definition of what's art or not.
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>>52107535
>Who is Public Image LTD
you take that back
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>>52107581
havent u realised this is the main goal of our generation?
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johnny boy always played the fool
he broke all the rules so you'd think he was cool
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>>52107581
>Yes. Music isn't scientific. It can't always be perfectly categorized like the elements because it doesn't have strict unbreakable laws. It's the same as arguing the definition of what's art or not.
Which is why I've appealed to mutual intelligibility and practicality. Why is this so difficult ? You have to find the right balance of vagueness and precision- you're being too vague.

>>52107625
They don't have attitude ?
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A bunch of tryhard hipsters and proto-hipsters playing on the "sensitive artist" subtrope producing the most boring kind of music in existence with no defined roots, directions or even feelings.
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>>52106603
>Stereolab - Emperor Tomato Ketchup
dots and loops maybe, but not ETK
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>>52107772
Who is Slint

>>52107803
ETK is their best album.
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>>52107754
Just because you can be classified under a genre , doesn't mean you have to have all of it's qualities. Just like how not all of a band's qualities have to be applied to a genre they are part of.

The conception of the term Post Rock has always been a vague, blanket term. It is purely subjective.

Less of a genre, and more of a feeling you get from the music.
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>>52107946
You are arguing with yourself at this point.
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Gay.
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>>52107882
yeah but it's hardly post-rock based on the definitions provided itt

it's much more of a pop album, no?
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>>52107979
You've been arguing that there is no argument. It's weird.
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>>52107979
Not all of this string of replies has been me, and if I had actually bothered to read your first replies I wouldn't have responded because I agree.
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>>52108040
Side one, track one.
Post-rock is pop music.

>>52108043
I've been arguing in favor of mutual intelligibility from literally my first post ITT, and practicality from every post thereafter.
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>>52108117
Ah, sorry if I seemed snippy, then.
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Essentially the only thing which differentiates post rock from prog rock at a conceivable level is context. They're both branches of rock music which experimented with form, structure and dynamic progression in order to get a more refined sense of narrative or forward motion
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>>52108228
Aka "prog for indie people".
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>>52108271
'indie people' would suggest that post-rock is deviation from indie rock, which it isn't.
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>>52108361
indie music isn't just indie rock, though
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>>52108361
Ignoring that no, it wouldn't suggest that, the phrase used was "for indie people, while "indie people" is a phrase made to be intelligible as denoting a counter-culture more contemporary than (but still comparable to) the audience for prog.
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>>52108361
>>52108485
>>52108496
Alright, I think we've got it:
Prog made by cool people for indie people.
>>
Post Rock is a post genre.

It's better not to think about it.
>>
>>52108485
Not necessarily, but that is its most common contemporary use
>>52108496
Ah, that makes more sense.
Thread posts: 79
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