Changelings and Love

>>30860219
Basically you need to be a fee-fee faggot to change into a nuling.

>>30860219
>Spike has a Rarity doll
>Thorax has a Spike one
Rofl!

It was at best brotherly bond. Which would probably be aggressive and unloving in this case, to produce better warriors partially through guilt.

>>30860260
An Ember one too. Weird anachronism.

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>>30860229
It's not just the transformation though, it's the case of Hunger as well. If the Changelings shared love between one another, wouldn't they feel less hungry?

And wouldn't they know more about Love in general? I always thought it was an alien concept to them, outside of stealing it, hence Chrysalis ridiculing Cadence. She knew it gave them power, but that seemed to be the extent, no?

>>30860271
Bonds have love anon

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It's a little girls' show.

>>30860283
Wasn't really intended to be loving. Was intended to embarass him like "You have to have your brother rescue you. You are pathetic."

Even modern Pharynx cares more about the hive than his brother. The hive can deal with him as long as he helps to actually protect them and stops being so autistic.

>>30860322
>Wasn't really intended to be loving
Thorax literally says after the story that Pharync "has his own way of loving him". It's love anon, protecting your brother is love.

>>30860219
If you want to boil it down to a physical cause, I see the transformation as being triggered by a powerful positive emotional response. They're probably pretty cooperative when they want to be, but they never gave in to true love.

I think it has to be a completely selfless and conscious choice to share it that triggers the change. The intent has to be right too.

The episode seemed to imply that they consumed physical food now instead of harvesting emotional food

>>30860808
Physical food I'd imagine is simply for the pleasure. Like Thorax mentioned in To Where and Back, he doesn't get hungry anymore. That's surely the result of the fact they feed on Love and now have it in spades.

Unless, switching form has caused them to be more Pony-like, meaning they do now need to eat food

>>30860347
>>30860783
The transformation isn't the only thing though. Like said here >>30860283, wouldn't the shared love between them help their Hunger problems?
Did none of them realise that they feel less hungry when sharing love?

>>30861170
Maybe they didn't realize what they feel is love? Maybe changeling love feels different? Maybe love that isn't *actively* given doesn't feed them?

>>30861156
He was still in regular changeling form. In Triple Threat he actually mentions possibly getting indigestion from the sudden shift to a new diet. And his first thing when he heard eating was to go to the Castle kitchens.

>>30861170
I relate it to real-life feelings of hatred. Say you are a racist who despises black people. When you meet a black guy and he's nice and gives you a handshake, you may feel some kindness nagging you, but you fight it off. Similarly, when a Changeling experiences just a little bit of love, he cannot digest it, literally. But say some dude saves your life and he even turns out to be super chill and so do his friends, your racism may crack down and you actually feel comfortable having fun. That is, analogously, when a Changeling undergoes his metamorphosis.

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>>30861198
>Maybe love that isn't *actively* given doesn't feed them?
I don't know about that, considering they can literally force feed themselves love.
I don't know about them not realising what they feel is love. Chrysalis, for instance, took Cadence's place because she knew exactly what would happen when she did, and that's Shining Armour's love feeding her, so she clearly understood love
And that kind of contradicts what I said here >>30860283, because Love isn't alien to Chrysalis, though I reckon Love Magic, and to a further extent, Pony Magic is, considering she dismissed "My love will give you strength" as a Ridiculous sentiment.

All that's a long winded way of saying that Chrysalis at the very least knows what Love is.
>>30861206
Maybe, maybe Changelings eat regular food now. That'd be strange, but you do have a point.
>>30861288
But it's a bit different though isn't it, when you consider that love feeds changelings. Hunger's something you physically feel, not emotionally, and wouldn't the Changelings realise when they're sharing love that some of their hunger is gone?


It's just an interesting point to me, because I hadn't considered Changelings really giving any sort of love outside of giving it to Chrysalis herself. And even that doesn't seem like it was genuine, given the fact the Changelings seemed to dislike her rule

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>>30860808

I think they only eat physical food now, and don't consume emotion at all. They'd have to have an episode about when changelings actually fell and became love vampires for us to get anything concrete.

I do wish we had at least gotten a scene of nulings trying to figure out how to eat and do other normal pony things though.

>>30860260
So cute

>>30861358
>But it's a bit different though isn't it
If a racist greets a black person, would some of his hatred for black people be gone? I can imagine that, for a Changeling, it would feel like swallowing a nugget of spoilt food. Or perhaps rather like taking a bite of food you've always imagined to be disgusting: that first bite won't be easy to swallow. In both cases, chronic exposure will often have positive effects but bear in mind that such an atmosphere wasn't present in the hive. And then again the Changelings never really hated each other either, so what I wrote mostly applies to Pharynx, who has obviously been fighting back against liking the other Changelings.

>>30861358
>All that's a long winded way of saying that Chrysalis at the very least knows what Love is.
I suppose Chrysalis wouldn't tell the other ones about it to keep them from turning into nulings?

>>30861387
>when changelings actually fell
>implying they weren't always swiss cheese

I wonder if you could feed a changeling some liquid love

not necessarily through the mouth

>>30860271
That's clearly a changling, anon.

the internal logic of changelings is 100% fucked.

>Still trying to make sense of the asspull reformation
It's never gonna make sense lads, just accept that the writers needed it to happen and move on.

>>30860219
We never saw that in any other Changelings except Thorax and now Pharynx, Pharynx was probably a defective Changeling in the same way Thorax was, but to a lesser degree.

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>>30861447
This is a point, considering she does want to be the Leader, and in a Power hungry way too as she wasn't at all interested in the option of sharing love.
However, Chrysalis needs her Changeling army to attack, not only would they know exactly of her plan, but the Second time around, they felt first hand how Love worked when the army replaced important figures in Equestria.
So they know about Pony love, it's what they feed off. And they know where to find it too, so surely they'd know it when experiencing it.

>>30861428
>nugget pf spoiled food
I mean, not really. It is love at the end of the day and it's what the Changelings feed off. There's nothing spoiled about it, it's Love.
>>30863290
So you think it's more likely that Pharynx, the last one in the Changeling hive to change his ways, was born different rather than Changelings in general sharing bonds similar to Thorax and Pharynx?
I'm not with that. I mean, the 3 Ponies who were bullying Thorax themselves seemed to have a bit of a friendship. We know very little of younger Changelings, but what we have seen has shown a bond.

And even if it was just Pharynx and Thorax, how come they didn't realise that their shared love was feeding their hunger, even if slightly?

>>30863802
Who knows, Thorax still felt hunger despite sharing a slight amount of brotherly love for Pharynx when he first showed up in the Crystal Empire. I assume Pharynx was different like Thorax because he always loved the hive and had a different appearance to other Changelings both before and after his transformation.

>>30864142
I don't think Pharynx was different lke Thorax desu

Steal love

So Changelings shared love and fed each other?

>>30863802
>So they know about Pony love
And I'll just assume it feels different to Changeling love and Changeling love doesn't really satisfy them in the same way. Remember Thorax didn't feel hunger cause he shared love with other creatures, not his hive.

>>30866560
But love is love, that feels like a weird assumption. Thorax only changed after sharing his love with Chrysalis, the other Changelings too shared their love to transform

>>30866685
Blame it on biology? Shit I don't know, at this point we're going in circles.

>>30867645
Yeah I guess. It's just that "Changeling love being different" just didn't seem to fit with me.

And more or less, I still have the OP question of how it all really works. I mean, if Changelings did share love, which is the impression that I got, wouldn't it have fed them, and in turn they'd be less hungry and realise it's feeding their hunger?

If Changelings couldn't feed on Changeling love, then the reformed Changelings would still be hungry on a daily basis. But instead their love is making them thrive as it's shared between them

>>30864142
>Thorax still felt hunger despite sharing a slight amount of brotherly love for Pharynx when he first showed up in the Crystal Empire
Well it wouldn't feed him forever. It was a bit of love that probably kept him starving since it's not heavily sustained.

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>>30860260
>spike and thorax doll
>hes making them kiss

So how does changelings hunt and feast on love? Do they track down ponies, pin them down and suck out their lovefeels?

>>30868456
is that cum on his face

>>30868528
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they can either take it by force or by deception

>>30868133
I'm not sure they feed on each other. I mean we saw them eat regular food now, plus they seem to be giving love back to other things like the plants around the original hive. In fact as I understood it, they don't feed on love now anymore, but feed on the act of giving love?

>>30860219
>How does it work
Pretty sure it doesn't.

But love and friendship do some gamebreaking things just by their nature in this universe so you can just brush it off.

This is the difficulty with making something you originally designed to be absolute fodder and a stand-in for everything you want to be considered evil, and then going back and trying to give humanity to it. Tolkien ran into problems like this with his orcs; after the fact he regretted making them totally unsaveably evil but that's exactly what he made them to be. Changelings were not made with the intent to ever redeem them, that idea came later. They were a creative means to an end originally.
If the shit they're doing right now looks awkward it's because it is. They're jamming square pegs into round holes.

I do not like the comic series but it's worth mentioning that they went a very different direction with changelings than where they went in the show. Changelings in the comic were depicted as evil, totally unnatural and that any desire to sympathize with them was not inspired by their own behavior but actually other feeling normal things desperately trying to apply their own standards to changelings, and that it is a totally misguided way of approaching these evil pieces of shit.

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How come the Changelings all but completely forgot how to fight?

They never shared love before because they lived in a tough guy cold shoulder kind of society.
It's not enough to feel love towards another changeling, you have to shoot your gooey changeling load deep inside of them until they cum too.

>>30869779
They didn't, they fought just fine even if they were a little rusty, what are you talking about?

The problem was they weren't strong enough to hurt the thing, not that they didn't know how to hit it.

>>30869983
Not a bad point, but doesn't Pharynx specifically say with the Changeling army he'd have been able to take the wahlmorf down without a problem?
He had the Changeling army and they were somewhat ineffective

>>30870362
Thorax says they're out of practice and they fought all previous battles with the entire swarm working together, not most of the swarm after they hadn't fought in months.

>>30870393
Ah, fair enough, my mistake.

>>30870362
>>30870393
Very interesting to note that Pharynx specifically was a LOT stronger than the other ones. You could argue that he's just kept in practice, but he's physically able to keep up and seem stronger even than Thorax.

It's possible that regular changelings are just plain stronger than the nulings

>>30870572
Pharynx seems sort of like a General though, he's a bit of a Combat specialist which is why he seemed better suited to the situation.

ds

>>30869900
I don't think that's correct anon. There was some love shared

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>>30869165
>I'm not sure they feed on each other.
They feed, or did feed on Love. If love was there, their hunger would be satiated. Pharynx and Thorax loved each other, and that bond seemed to have stuck through their whole life, rather than just as kids.
So surely they'd be less hungry as they loved each other, but didn't they realise that too? Or any of the other Changelings

>they don't feed on love now anymore, but feed on the act of giving love?
Well, they're giving love to each other, so as I understood it they're still feeding on Love. It's just that they themselves are now generating the very love they feed on, which means they don't get hungry anymore.
But as someone else mentioned, the new Changelings also eat normal food, which suggests they might not feed on love anymore. But that would confuse me, because I thought the reasons the new Changelings were so far hard into their Love phase was partly because them sharing the love meant no one was going hungry, and they much preferred that state than the state of being in constant hunger.

But if they no longer feed on love, then that's out of the Window. Still, the point regarding Pharynx and Thorax stays though

Do you think Cadence could help the Changelings, being she's so familiar with love?

>>30863802
Yeah I ditch the spoiled food analogy immediately for the "food you don't like" comparison, that one is much better. The point is: they are indoctrinated to believe love is bad, and the only way to sustain their lives is by absorbing it directly, which is basically sadism. And we can all say from experience, is that others is fun and sometimes even addictive.

>>30872973
I'd love to see an episode where Cadence has to reconcile with the reformed race of Changelings, full stop. ESPECIALLY if there's still a "renegade faction" that might show up, assuming that wasn't just Pharynx being a dick on his own that Thorax was talking about a few episodes ago
>Cadence gets nervous around them whenever she sees on interacting with Shining, and gets really overprotective and standoffish without clear provocation
>tries to courteously act "polite" towards Thorax, given the new relations between their kingdoms at all, but she accidentally ends up talking down to him with her casual racism
>gets overly paranoid throughout the episode and cites their shape-shifting as a fundamental reason why they can't be trusted, especially if there are a few bad apples in the bunch that could just walk into a Castle and claim they're one of the Princesses again

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>>30869147
>the mare you met last night was just a changeling

>>30873120
everything turned out better than expected

>>30873122
Except Changelings suck out all your love energy and so you feel completely emotionless

>>30873032
is that hurting others*

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>>30873191
thats a headcanon

>>30873276
Do you even watch the show? They almost faint after Chrysalis sucks the love out of them

>>30873327
whats that got to do with being completely emotionless? not to mention apparently giving love freely in turn increases your strength. shame we will never know for sure now.

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>>30873111
It'd be nice to see a Cadence episode, but I'm not sure we'll see it. Could happen off screen, or just not. Cadence does know Thorax, and to a decent degree, and he's the current leader of the Changelings so perhaps it's not really an issue. Chrysalis was the real threat and she's sort of disappeared.

I just think it's interesting though, given that Cadence protects the Crystal Empire and is so well versed with Love, which is a topic that the new Changelings are trying to come to terms with and even used to feed on

>>30873111
>ESPECIALLY if there's still a "renegade faction" that might show up
Didn't you watch the episode?
They all stopped being renegade and joined Thorax, just off screen go fuck yourself leave only positive feedback it's for little girls, etc.

>>30874567
I mean, there's still a slight chance some are rogue, Chrysalis is still out there and the Changeling hive is absolutely huge.

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>>30860219
>Hey guys, this plot element contradicts something we learned about the characters earlier on
>How does that work?
Anon, I'm not sure how to explain to you that it doesn't work and this is just how the show is. Some people will come up with semi-plausible theories, but ultimately it won't matter because they'll get overridden by more nonsensical bullshit injected by a later generation of writers.

>>30874508
Cadance has a really poor character if you ask me and I wouldn't normally enjoy her, but I do think you're on to the premise of a good episode. The Crystal Empire and the Changeling Hive should become besties.

>>30860219
I know those are hoof holes, but it looks like he has a very prominent double-chin. Or maybe a ballsack on his neck like an echidna.

>>30875418
Given Spike's connection to the Crystal Empire it'd kind of fit too, for those to be aligned.
Cadence is already sort of good with Thorax though, so maybe she won't really reach out, I just think with her Love thing and the Changeling's Love thing there could be something there, that she could teach them or maybe they could teach her

Either that, or like you say, a bond between the two Empires. They already have one, but it could be stronger

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>>30875928
>The two empires
>The Changelings now live in the blasted ruins of their old hive
>They haven't attempted to rebuild in any way
>Just sit around and talk about their feelings and look at how pretty the growing things are

It looks nice, but when you really boil it down, Thorax is sitting on a shattered throne amongst the ruins of what they used to be and leads an impotent race that doesn't even know what to do with itself following their complete ideological shift. It's their version of Griffonstone, the difference is that the ponies did this to them and seem to have no interest in helping them undo the damage.

>>30876344
They're in a rebuilding phase

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>>30873032
>"food you don't like" comparison
I'm not sure that fits either.
Even if Chrysalis was telling them love is bad, the bottom line is there was love present in the Changeling hive. Pharynx wasn't really knowingly exhibiting love, but he did love his brother and so defended him.
That's the love I'm speaking of, and I fail to see how it's spoiled or even a "bad" kind of love that wouldn't feed a Changeling. It's love, and it'd satiate his hunger. And to that point, wouldn't they realise?

>>30877207
He may have felt love but he didn't let it flow freely. Just like how a song can be catchy but you deliberately don't like it I guess. Yeah it only depends on how much you believe this makes sense.

>>30878038
>he didn't let it flow freely.
Maybe not, but it's not like he was holding it back either. The song analogy seems a bit of a bad one, don't really see how it fits in this context, when love is love.

On a further note, I was thinking outside of Pharynx and Thorax, and the Changelings aren't all selfish beings only serving themselves. They likely had their own bonds within the Hive, and on top of that, all worked to protect the Hive. Like Pharynx said, he "loved the Hive", and this seemed true during Chrysalis's range and after.
So I get the impression that many Changelings experienced love, at the very least in a primitive sense, no? They all generally worked as a unit. Pharynx's love for the Hive actually seemed pretty deep as well, so that love must be going somewhere, no?

Chrysalis was a tyrannical ruler
Even if some of the Changelings did realise they could share love and be fed, chances are they couldn't do anything about it
There's something to be said about being stuck in your ways and not questioning them

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>>30880521
It turns out, AJ's day off was essential to the arc of season six. Who knew?

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>>30874567
There is the chance that Chrysalis is just sitting around laying eggs like a madwoman right now to make a whole new hive.

>>30880745
Wew

Love is all aeound

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>>30860219
I think the idea that Changelings can share love without actively 'giving' it to one another someone mentioned could be true.
Considering Love is a bit of a tangible thing in Equestria, in that Changelings can literally take it from a Pony (afaik). So while they could be sharing love, in a basic form, within their hive, they're not actively 'giving' the love, because they're holding onto it for themselves for their personal sustenance, and because hording love is what they did.

Is it clear what I'm trying to say there? It's the idea that Changelings in their prior state, perhaps weren't really able to 'give' each other love, maybe because they didn't know how, and actually sharing love was a concept they were either unfamiliar with, or something they couldn't physically do because Love is how they'd survive.
It's not like they knew what sharing love would do, only now that we see their reform does it seem apparent that simply Sharing love would be massively beneficial for the Changelings. But before that, we didn't really know they could sustain themselves that way, and I assume neither did the Changelings.


Alternatively, there's also the possibility that the love they shared among each other did help sustain them. The Changelings under Chrysalis seemed as if they were constantly hungry, and somewhat unhappy with their ways. But when we saw them attack Canterlot, or at the Hive, none of them really seemed to be starving and completely devoid of love. And if that's the case, maybe it was their own love that was sustaining them and keeping them from absolute hunger? That, combined with what I assume is draining love from others around, though nothing to a big scale, because really, there wasn't much around the Changeling hive that they could drain love from

>>30883722

This >>30880521 is also a possibility but I'm not really sure. One thing that does seem true is that the Changelings did seem to have some form of love in their hive, as sentient beings they had to have to work together, and we saw that with Pharynx and Thorax. But how that love works in relation to their feeding is a bit of a mystery to us

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>>30883722
Oh, and also, the fact that someone mentioned that Changelings seem to eat food now as opposed to love, gives more reasoning to the theory that the old Changelings couldn't give love in the same sense. If their diets are different, then they've gone through some internal change as well

>>30860219

>>30884738
>go from subsisting on energy to subsisting on organic substances
why did they devolve?

>>30886625
They were constantly hungry before, I think this works better lad

>>30887166
shame they never dipped into green lantern territory where they experiment with consuming different emotions

>>30887272
Not sure they can desu

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Anyone else kind of get the feeling the Changedlings were how the Changelings initially were as a race, and then something drastic happened which led to the shift and Chrysalis's tyrannical reign?

So now the new Changelings are more in line with their true selves

>>30875535
>double chin
Kek

>>30876344
It's not the same, because you can clearly see nature taking back the land and they're making their new home a part of it.

eh

>>30890279
Something drastic like "Too big of a bunch of pussies to outfight a fucking MOLE"?

From a survival perspective, their chances were MUCH higher as predators than they are now. They could handle shit in the past, they can't now.

>>30894479
Well, I didn't mean they're exactly how they were before, behaviour and all. I meant more as in their form, though the behaviour was perhaps similar too.
As in, the Changelings we see now, are how the Changelings actually used to look like, and even acted like in a sense, considering those forms came from sharing love. Then something happened, which took away their form and gave them a new one, maybe even Chrysalis taking rule by force, after something happened to her specifically, which meant future Changelings were born the same way.
I don't know, I just get the impression this Love form for the Changelings isn't completely new, but if that were the case, the Changelings would have to be a really ancient race that's been secluded, because from what I can tell, even Celestia doesn't know much about them, and S2 might have even been her first encounter them

>>30894579
It seems like they really take after their leaders. The hive mind meme isn't real but they seem to have a strong group mentality.

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>>30896389
Well, the Changelings now are very used to being led, it's how they've lived really.
In the past, I don't know. I'm just theorising though. For all I know Chrysalis has always been ruling and the Changeling's black form is what they've always had.

It just feels like their new form was repressed somewhere, waiting to burst out. I mean, now we know about it, it just makes so much sense that Changelings can simply share love between themselves to thrive.
To me it seems like that got lost somewhere

>>30894479
There's a reason humans are extremely weak yet dominate the planet Anon.

>>30899000
Humans have technology, the changelings have yet to exhibit ANY improvement since their change; They're basically living in the bombed out ruins of their old kingdom talking about their feelings.

Its not like they've suddenly gotten better at creating spells or anything as an analogue to technology.

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>>30900049
You mean aside from completely changing their diet from being parasitic predators, and becoming a freer society?

>>30900049
The fact that they're allies with the dragons and the ponies is a pretty big improvement. Seriously if Torch or any other big dragon decided to attack the Changelings, they would be literally toast in a few seconds flat.

>>30901913
If the dragons decide to attack ANYONE they'd be fucked DESU. The ponies are pretty straight SOL if the dragons weren't their buddies.

>>30901913
The Changelings can defend themselves mate. It's pretty much what they did for their entire rule under Chrysalis

>>30902032
Not from a 10-story dragon, let alone a whole gang of them

>>30902033
Well that's a tough task for anybody pretty much
Unless someone gets Flash Magnus back

>>30901023
>changing their diet from being parasitic predators
You just described human beings. Being super predators is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing.

Its why we're still raising cows to milk and eat or farming fish.

>>30902033
They took out a dragon in the comics fairly well.
Kind of depends on the dragon though; Torch? You're fucked. Garble and the other tiny ones? You can beat the shit out of them pretty easily by throwing like 3 changelings to each 1 dragon.

>>30902040
That's why it's so convenient to be on good terms with them.

>>30902054
There is that story in the Journal of Celestia intimidating a Dragon who disrespected her.
>>30902053
Which issue of the Comics?

>>30902063
Fiendship one. A big one freed the changelings from the volcano that Celestia had put them in, and Chrysalis tricked him into assuming a vulnerable position and then took out of one of his wings so he'd fall from mid-air and let gravity and his own size do the rest.

>>30902085
>Fiendship
Ah, thanks anon. I have those, need to give them a proper read.

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>>30902042
So do they. I was referring to how they can peacefully coexist and make friends with other races now instead of preying on them.

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>>30873120

>>30902948
Changelings have really gone down hill.

Do you think Changelings can "devolve"?
As in, go back to the Changeling form from the Changedling form?

>>30904589
They can already change shape, but I doubt the change would be permanent, unless they were reconnected with Chrysalis's magic hivemind.