Are Unicorns superior?

>>30788381
yes. /thread

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>>30788386
> /thread'ng your own post

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yes

>>30788395
check the ip count before shitposting, dumbass.

>>30788419
I wasn't accusing you of being OP, just being a fag in general.

>>30788422
>this damage control

>>30788443
>Look ma! Buzzwords!

>>30788381
Eh. Levitation magic vs Strength vs Flight. The first is more handy in day to day life, but if Equestria were to experience a race war, 99,99% of unicorns would be dead meat

>>30788381
Only in the comics, which aren't canon.

>>30788455
>Strength
This meme has been debunked so many times it's not even funny any more. Why do you keep perpetuating it?

>>30788649
It's same with meme that earth ponies are the only ones that can grow plants. People just can't accept that not every pony is equal.

>>30788967
Who's memeing that?
Also, not every pony is equal. That's the entire point of the show.

>>30788419
You can't /thread your own post you fucking newfag, doesn't matter if you samefag or not, holy shit, go back to whatever shithole you crawled out off

>>30789011
It happens from time to time, when there is thread discussing importance of earth ponies some faggots like to pop up and post how eveypony would starve without earth ponies and shieeet, because they are only ones that can grow food.

>>30788381
Honestly, I don't really think so. That's just my opinion though.

>>30789054
Strange.
Those are two completely separate statement. The meme that earth ponies are the only ones that can grow food I've never heard of, but I'll take your word for it.
The fact Equestria wouldn't be able to sustain itself and would indeed starve without earth ponies is pretty indisputable.

>>30789076
I saw it quite a few times.

Second statement I think is partially true. If they suddenly dissapear there probably would be some starvation untill their society adapt (though there would be a lot less mouth to feed, so I think that controll over weather + magic would allow them to adapt quite quickly, they would just need to drop that special talent bullshit when faced with reality).
If earth ponies never existed than Equestria would probably work, it would just be differrent country.

>>30788381
>Can unicorns achieve superiority?
Yes
>Are all unicorns superior?
Hell no. Celestia would have them executed if she had to deal with a literal populous of atom bombs just waiting to drop and wreck her country. Most are just good at what their ass mark tells them they're good at. Basically earth ponies with a kick

>>30789130
Sauce on this? What episode is this mentioned in?

>>30789114
Yeah, "Equestria" would be closer to Griffonstone or the Buffalo outside Appleloosa. A civilization barely chugging along because such a huge amount of their manpower goes towards surviving for the day, or a simple migratory culture that can create no permanent settlements.

Depending on how efficient it is to move Cloudsdale, that could work as a settlement that's actually migratory in itself, allowing some semblance of high culture. Cut down on luxuries like weather and send pegasi to gather what they can while the city slowly plods along it's course.

>>30789207
Nah, I think that they thrive because magic as a whole, not just earth pony magic. With control over weather and some research about applying unicorn magic in agriculture (maybe not spells that makes plant just pop from the ground, but some magical fertilizer) they could replace earth ponies in pretty efficent way.
Even control over weather alone makes immense difference.

>>30789239
What you've done now is establish Griffonstone 2.0.
Most unicorns know one or two spells related to their talent, that's the full extent of it.
If a simple enough spell on a small enough magnitude could be created that most unicorns could (and would be state-mandated to) learn, applying unicorn magic and development on this wide a scale would take away unicorns that would otherwise perform high-civilization tasks like entertainment, luxury, science, art...

We don't know the full extent of weather and it's effects on agriculture in MLP (even rainbows are pony-made rather than natural phenomena like in our world), but we probably can't cut down much.
In fact we might actually have to increase weather production, or at least optimize it if we want to grow anything in places like Appleloosa. Away with luxuries like rainbows, it's either factory-made rain that comes in bulk delivery, or nothing.
The excess pegasi who currently hold high-civilization jobs would have to be schooled into makeshift farmers (along with less magically talented unicorns). Earth ponies don't only contribute with magic, there's a lot of manpower involved in keeping a farm as well. Apples and cherries are probably out, apples especially are far too fragile to the whims of nature and disease. Oats and hay for everyone.

They'd (mostly) survive, but their civilization and progress would grind to a halt, and quality of life would drop dramatically.

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You don't need unicorn magic to instantly grow plants, Applebloom made a potion to do that. The earth pones just get shit done attitude, allows the others to do the higher society functions, at least in general

>>30789768
Alchemy is by it's nature ascendant, as an art it seeks to transmute both the self and the world around into "higher states" of purity (enlightenment). Lead to gold being the most well-known example.
What Apple Bloom is doing (according to classical Western alchemy) is taking a part of herself (her earth pony magic) and transmuting that part to a higher state. Her potion is obviously a novice's attempt and seriously incomplete, but the idea is the same as with lead to gold. Earth pony magic transmuted to plant-growth-potion.

There's no hard proof MLP follows the Western interpretation of alchemy, but the interpretation does fit very nicely.
If it was Scootaloo who made the potion it'd be a bit weird, but for Apple Bloom it makes sense. It also makes sense for Snowfall Frost to incorporate unicorn magic as a stage in the transmutation when she attempts to transmute lead to gold.
And it also makes sense that Apple Bloom as a novice has to rely on advanced, professional-looking glass tools while Zecora is a master of the art and uses a fucking kettle.

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>>30789768
>>30789952
Oh, and I'm not sure if you misspelt or not, but unicorn magic doesn't let you instantly grow plants, not unless you're a very high level unicorn, if even then. (I'm pretty sure Twilight or Trixie struggles and strains, and eventually manages to sprout a small flower using unicorn magic. I thought it was Magic Duel but apparently not, so maybe I'm misremembering)

All (other?) examples of rapid plant growth we have from the show are either direct Earth pony magic (Applejack, Hooffields or was it the McColts), Alchemical refinement of Earth pony magic (Applebloom), or Earth pony magic woven into a Unicorn spell by an Alicorn (Twilight).

>>30788381
Of course they are. They can build cucksheds faster than an earth pony or pegasus.

Earth pony mares are supposed to serve Unicorn.

In every way.

>>30790028
We have seem Sunset Shimmer rapidly grow plants. Earth pony magic is just magic and can be replicated by Unicorns.

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>>30789952
That's a vary interesting interpretation and system of alchemy. I don't think mlp uses it, Twilight and the other unicorn in Celestia school for gifted unicorns made vary similar if not identical potion.

>>30790028
Are you thinking of this fan animation?https://youtu.be/A79t_sPsh-w

>>30792643
Sunset Shimmer isn't canon, EqG functions on entirely different principles.
In FiM there's no such thing as "just magic", every type of magic, from unicorn to pegasus to dream to chaos, is unique.

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>>30788381
Yes.

>>30792815
Notice the shimmer around Twilight's plant, you often get this effect around enchanted objects affected by unicorn spells, but not earth pony magic or Zecora's alchemy.
Twilight also transformed her parents to cacti when she got her cutie mark, and age spells exist for highest level unicorns. For a top level unicorn it's a matter of applied age spells or transformation to make a plant sprout, while earth ponies sprout entire patches without effort.

>>30790028
>Earth pony magic woven into a Unicorn spell by an Alicorn (Twilight)
When did this happen? Be sure to present a statement that earth pony magic was used in said example.

>>30793756
I don't need to, burden of proof isn't on me.

>>30788381
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P5BxfRavFg

>>30793906
Ah, so you were making shit up to support your point. I accept your concession.

>>30793956
What have I made up? Be sure to present a statement to the contrary in said example.

>>30789341
I don't see why.
We managed to build many great civilizaztions without even such advantages as magic or weather contol.
They don't need complete control over weather, stopping floods or droughts is enough to prevent a lot of starvation.
At some point Griffonstone was great an proud city too, without earath ponies. So they managed to feed themselves and still build civilization. They just collapsed at some point as every civilization ever.

I don't see why ponies would be any different. Why wouldn't they just adapt and continue. They would need to divert some of them to work agriculture, but rest of them would still progress civilization and society.
And with control over weather and magic (I never said that they would need to develop some spells that are applied locally, but opening new branch of magic research centered about agriculture would be enough in long run) they wouldn't need as many people working fields as we nedeed in pre industrial societies.
Hell they have fields already prepared, infrastructure already build. They just would need workforce, and while new ponies wouldn't be as effective as earth ponies, their population would be a lot smaller too.
Diverting some of ponies to agriculture wouldn't suddenly completely stop their progress, maybe slow it down for few years before they addapt.

>>30794011
Equestria isn't like our world. Night and day don't happen without pony intervention, outside of places like Everfree even plants and the weather doesn't move on it's own.
A more apt comparison would be Shinto, and ponies are the kami, spirits, that maintain the world around them in a healthy state.

Does Griffonstone at it's prime look anywhere close to as prosperous as Equestria? Equestria is well and truly beyond what any of our preindustrial societies looked like, reducing it back to one (if sustainable) would be a massive downgrade.

>>30794044
But fall of Griffonstone isn't in any way connected to lack of food. They were capable to create society without earth ponies and while not as proseprous it still worked. And they don't have magic and their abilties to control weather is dubious.
Equestria have all those advantages, their easy acces to food is just one of them.
And in the terms of agriculture their society looks pre industrial. They don't have any machines, they use only their own muslces. They don't even have any beasts of burden. While we saw many examples of advanced technology or magictech, average ponies lack access to them.
Again I don't see why unicorns and pegasi wouldn't be able to create working agriculture without earth ponies. It would probably take them few years to adapt, but that doesn't mean that their progress would suddenly stop.

>>30794120
I think you misunderstand me. Equestria probably wouldn't stop, but the pace at which they evolve on all levels of society would plummet drastically.
Right now, Equestria is in it's prime. One could even argue their prosperity has made them complacent, stagnant and borderline degenerate. Their armor design used for the military is literally over a thousand years old, with only material improvements, their agriculture is manual despite having trains, while ponies like Fluttershy fuck about doing whatever they want and Rarity can dedicate her entire existence to indulgent luxury. They're a post-scarcity society that has reached the point where progress is no longer needed, because the vast majority of ponies are afgorded the freedom to do what they want when they want.
But look at what happens when an external threat emerges. In the crystal war timeline, the military armor is being replaced by new and advanced textile materials, and in less than two years (common consensus) they've developed and fielded artificial wings that replicate lost wings so perfectly a pony can still serve on the front line.
That kind of rapid advancement isn't possible without earth ponies (or any other race for that matter). Losing one race cost you too much efficiency, and they're back to Griffonstone level or close.

>>30794177

I realise that losing earth ponies would mean lose of some of their prosperity. Heck, they would lose third of their population, it would damage every country. But I don't see how that would damage them enough to make them something even close to Griffonstone. While earth ponies are important to their society they aren't vital. Replacing them would mean a lot of change to their socety, they would need to drop whole cutie-mark thing, their world would change forever. But they would still thrive, maybe be less prosperous but still pretty good country. They have rather strong economy, they have needed infrastructure, they would adapt and survive.
Or turn into wasteland, who knows? Maybe they are unable to adapt? Maybe being pony means that their country would crumble? It's all divagation without any proofs.

>In the crystal war timeline
It isn't good example. Their new "armor" isn't anything special. It don't even cover any vital areas. Whole neck, most of legs, chest, flanks, head all exposed. We saw that they are capable of wielding spears, and yet in crystal wars they fight using hooves. Only real advancement we saw was Dash's wings, but I don't think that it was something available for common soldier.
Same like now, in Equestria we saw a lot of pretty advanced things, Twilight's computer, Vinyl's mixing table. But I don't think that those things are mass produced, they are probably hoof made on specific order and pretty expensive. If you found unicorn with specific talent you would probably be able to get such advanced prosthesis even now.

>>30794339
The new armor covers everything except neck (which is very hard to armor) and hooves (which you need for grip and dexterity), it even includes an optional full-covering helmet and hard plate in more exposed areas.
They also charge into battle with spears and polearms, It's only later in the ensuing brawl that they fight hoof-to-hoof because of PG rating reasons.
And it's not limited to the examples I gave, Applejack has rebuilt her farm into an advanced canning factory to provide logistical support for the population, etc.

>>30794415
It left whole neck uncovered, I realise it's harder to do it considering that ponies have longer necks, but it's vital area left without any protection. Big vital area. It would be problemtic to cover it with plates, but they could use even chainmail if they really wanted.
Most of other areas aren't covered by armoured plates but by some textile. Even if it's advanced material it still doesn't protect them from blunt trauma, and considering that they mostly fight using white weapons it's rather big problem.
They used those armoured plates to cover their bellies and for some reasons left chest, back and hind legs uncovered. I would undrestand that for pegasi, but why use such flawed design for earth ponies too?
I know that it's show for kind and I expect too much from them, but design of that armor is simply retarded.

>>30794339
>third
You mean half the population. Earth ponies are everywhere

>>30794857
Third. Earth ponies make up close to one third of the pony population from S3 onwards when they started paying attention.

>>30793996
I see what you're trying to do, but since you have no evidence that Twilight has ever 'woven earth pony magic into a unicorn spell', saying that she has is dishonest and making shit up. You assume that she's done this because she is an alicorn and would have access to earth pony magic, but she also turned her parents into plants as a unicorn. "But that was just a fluke! She was supercharged with unicorn mag-" Exactly. Unicorn magic let her transform her parents easily. And she also partly turned a frog into an orange as a unicorn.

>>30795268
Transforming things into other things is standard fare for advanced unicorns. Twilight also does it with mice to horses, ponies to breezies, and several more.
What's that got to do with growing things? You're comparing apples to oranges here. ;^)

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>>30794044
Griffonstone fell due to decreasing morale on the part of its citizens after losing their idol. This led to them being bitter penny-pinchers that grew a 'me first' mindset that was counterproductive to their society's continued growth and stability. Do you even watch the show? And unless you want to argue that the pegasi flew earth ponies to their sky city to give them industry pointers, the pegasi developed pretty much in isolation and even created a weather making factory that would have to exist since the beginning of the pony race. Otherwise there would be no weather. Of course, this is all assuming that the Hearth's warming story is even true.

>>30795316
>What's that got to do with growing things?
Everything? Twilight made the mice huge. They grew when she transformed them. She did this as a unicorn.
>take apple seed
>transform it into a fully grown apple tree

>>30795397
>take apple seed
>transform it into a fully grown apple tree
And what happens when the transformation wears off at midnight/a day later, and the seeds revert?

>>30795397
Comparing all unicorns to Twilight is like comparing all white people to a white weight-lifting champion and saying "LMAO HITLER WAS RIGHT UNTERMENCSH BTFO AMIRITE"

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>>30795539
But Hitler was right.

>>30795452
You assume the seeds will revert.
But that's irrelevant to the point that Twilight has the ability to grow and transform things without the use of earth pony magic.

>>30795539
Ok. That has nothing to do with what I'm arguing. Go back to /pol/ or wherever you came from.

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>>30795562
>But that's irrelevant to the point that Twilight has the ability to grow and transform things without the use of earth pony magic.
If you're going to be a pedantic asshat, then fine, have it your way.
The discussion is about:
>rapid plant growth
not
>growth and transformation

Transformation isn't the same as rapid growth. Twilight transformed the mice into something larger, she did not grow the mice.

>>30795590
You seem frustrated.
>Transformation isn't the same as rapid growth.
But it is. Transformation just happens instantly. It is 'rapid growth ascended past rapid growth.'

>>30795628
So not at all rapid growth?

>>30795635
'Rapid growth' is included in the name description, so, yes, transformation counts as rapid growth.

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>>30795642
What name description? What are you on about? You can't arbitrarily equate two completely separate concepts like that!
Are you seriously trying to argue that when Twilight transformed the mane6 into breezies it counts as rapid growth? What in the fuck?

>>30795656
You saw the scene right? They were sprouting wings and antennae in their regular forms (rapid growth) and then their bodies shrunk and contorted to match the breezies (rapid shrinking). Well done. You're not too bright, are you?

>>30795687
How is that related to rapid plant growth?

>>30795812
You're the one who brought up the breezies to say that transformation doesn't count as rapid growth. I'm just pointing out that you're wrong.

>>30795896
You were saying transformation is rapid growth, and then explained how it's not.
Protip: It's not. Those are two separate concepts.

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>can do everything earth ponies can but better
>can do everything pegasi can but better
>Levitation

>>30796171
No, I explained how transformation is rapid growth ascended past rapid growth. It can be instant or 'slow', but it is still rapid growth. Just better.

>>30796184
That's an alicorn. Alicorns are superior.

>>30796192
If it's ascended past rapid growth it can't be considered rapid growth. Those are two completely different concepts.

>>30796529
Yes it can since it's simply rapid growth, but better.
>Different concept
No, the concept is the same. The execution is just superior.

>>30796545
Transformation implies change, growth implies remaining the same but a different size. Two completely different concepts.
Transformation is not the same as growth.

>>30796573
>Two completely different concepts.
Not really. When Twilight transforms her friends into Breezies, they GROW wings. Rarity does not have wings at all (unless you want to argue dishonestly), so there's nothing there to make bigger or smaller in the first place. And a seed looks nothing like a tree, yet that's what it will grow to be. Transformation implies growth/removal/modification at a rapid rate. Sorry.

But all of this distracts from the initial point being that Twiggles doesn't need 'earth pony' magic since her unicorn magic, not to mention her alchemy, is capable of supplanting it easily.

>>30796762
No Twilight conjures wings as part of the transformation. When she conjures wings for Rarity in Sonic Rainboom she even tells us what they're made from, gossamer and morning dew.

Wanna stop shitposting now?
>Twiggles doesn't need 'earth pony' magic since her unicorn magic, not to mention her alchemy, is capable of supplanting it easily.
When did this happen? Be sure to present a statement that Twilight's unicorn magic was used in said example.

>>30796788
>No Twilight conjures wings as part of the transformation.
She grows them. And antennae. Out of their bodies. Then their bodies shrink and contort to match the breezies. Using a different word to describe it doesn't change anything.
>Wanna stop shitposting now?
You seem frustrated.
>When did this happen?
How cute. When did what happen?

>>30796924
>She grows them. And antennae. Out of their bodies.
Nope.
>Using a different word to describe it doesn't change anything.
You're the one being pedantic over terminology. I honestly don't care, but if you do you should at least stick to the correct terminology.

>Twiggles doesn't need 'earth pony' magic since her unicorn magic, not to mention her alchemy, is capable of supplanting it easily.
When is this stated in the show?

>>30796966
>Nope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPxETDmDH30
Ah, I see. You've become so frustrated that you've stooped to being dishonest and ignoring what's been shown. You can clearly seem them sprouting out of their bodies.

>you should at least stick to the correct terminology
It's funny how you've just now decided to use the 'correct'
terminology. It's not incorrect, but the wings and antennae are still being grown out of their bodies.

>When is this stated in the show?
As far as I remember? Since, unlike you, I'm not dishonest, I will freely, admit that it wasn't. But, unlike you, I'm actually basing my belief off Twilight's shown abilities from when she was a unicorn, which shows that she doesn't need to mix in 'earth pony' magic to grow plants. Therefore, to assume that Twilight has ever 'woven earth pony magic into a unicorn spell' is pure bullshit unless stated otherwise.

You still haven't even given me that example yet. What makes you think she's done that before?