Downvote thread

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>>30604573
>Should we care?
fuck no. Post pone

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>>30604573
basically,the site is fine as always,mods clearly don't hear opinions out of their safe space,they wanted to make one and they failed.
They excused that the site can't be stagnated(which works as it is) and then,a slap in the face to them with the last two threads to confirm we all suspected:they are shit and they don't listen.

In short.Downvote is best pony and I'll downvote the mods for their tumblr acts.

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>>30604576
Good luck searching by score and having this garbage popping up at the top.

>>30604573
>What now?
Draw Downvote porn.

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>>30604573
>muh downboats drama
Oh neat, another one

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Downvote is a shit and overrated OC.
Nyx is much better and needs more love.

>>30604599
Oh no, this is terrible. I mean, not like now, where 3d anthro futa pics, badly drawn animecrap and Jonfawkes get, for some reason, scores over 300.

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>>30604604
>>30604616
>>30604621
nice

Who cares, this is not Derpibooru, go bother them

>>30604621
You can easily filter them, i'm saying that downvotes prevent bad art from earning an unreasonable big score. Fetishes don't count, againg, you can filter those.

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come on byte
I know you are here

shitspost what you did in the last thread.
The rest of the mods,you too.

I think it's better for us(and better for the community) if you don't lie and actually talk with your haters.

I'm not posting right now,but I'll say this:

You fucked it up,like bad pieces of art.You get downvoted and move on.But still,you'd better show up because you fell short about it.

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>>30604656
>I'm not posting right now

>>30604656
I feel like it's already been made clear that we're not going to try to remove downvotes again, and to instead deal with the shortcomings of the current system.

>>30604658
what I mean is that I'm leaving for a couple of hours and probably will miss some posts around.But I'll probably return here and make a little sketch of downvote if I feel like doing so tonight

>>30604621
>search: my waifu, -anthro, -humanised
There you go

>>30604688
Saying you saged and reported is against the rules, rulefag.

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Do you think Downvote will be ok?

>>30604661
Hey, what was the atmosphere of the mod chat like during the mouthpiece tumblrjack incident?

Why weren't people allowed to properly tag it as a mouthpiece image?

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>>30604782
In the mod chat on that specific day, the general consensus about the image was that it wasn't a mouthpiece.

Based on the usage of mouthpiece tag from the tag page, I'm inclined to agree:
https://derpibooru.org/search?q=mouthpiece

>>30604867
> it wasn't a mouthpiece
elaborate
a nazi pony is called a mouthpeice, even if the image is not pushing anything, but a 'trans pride' applejack isn't?

>>30604867
So you believe that Sunset Shimmer holding up a sign stating that she's gay IS a proper candidate for the mouthpiece tag, but applejack wearing a shirt saying she's a tranny ISN'T?

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>>30604867
>Using a canon character to further an opinion, agenda, or message (whether positive or negative) they would not normally have.
>Transgender fucking Applejack
>Not a mouthpiece
Get out of here, Frowning Pony.

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>>30604899
Aryanne is not, see pic (searched for "(oc:aryanne || nazi*),mouthpiece")

>>30604901
>>30604906
Point taken. Perhaps it should be, then.

I've been mostly ambivalent on the issue for some time, because I'm not actively involved in moderation, and don't really desire to go back to moderating.

>>30604918
I don't into the fandom outside /mlp/. If you're not a mod on derpi, who are you? Or are you just a mod who doesn't moderate?

I could see an argument against tagging it a mouthpiece if she was just there, but the shirt is pushing a message.

>>30604936
He codes for the site.

The moderation team has so much respect for him that they rolled out his change after he specifically told them not to.

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>>30604867
Why is this mouthpiece?
>MLP:FIM
check
>Promotes something mlp unrelated.
check
>Uses t-shirt to do so.
check
Both images are 100 equal, yet only one has the tag.

>>30604936
I'm a developer. I have a moderator role, but that's just so I can push buttons that I occasionally need to/check on staff-level functionality.

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>>30604944
I was literally just coming here to post that.

Here's another fantastic piece of mouthpiece tagging.

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>another one

Her name literally isn't Bon Bon.

>>30604867
>>30604918
So I dug around for the reasoning.

It is is that any current image of a character with a pride flag is not any more of a mouthpiece than a character saying "I like girls" or a significant proportion of canon shipping images.

That means that the image with Sunset holding up a banner that say "I'm gay" is just an image macro.

I'm not sure that I agree with the decision, but the decision isn't illogical in the way it's been made out to be.

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>Another thread
Why? I thought the situation was resolved anyway.

>>30605043
Because the mods still plan on removing downvotes in one way or another.

>>30605061

See >>30604661

>>30605021
Wearing a shirt that says trans pride pushes the agenda that gender dysphoria is anything more than a mental disorder that has terrible consequences if left untreated.

Applejack is a very honest pony, there's no way she would advocate for lies and deception like that.

>>30604621
I found good 3D
https://www.derpibooru.org/1495877?q=anal

>>30605061
This is false. Due to the initial response it had before. They're looking for solutions to deal with votebombing

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>>30605104
Thank goodness. Don't send her back to the gallows.

>>30605104
Sterilized outward facing statements != actual intentions.

How do I dislike this thread?

>>30605119
shitpost

>>30605110
>solution to votebombing

Get off your asses and moderate?

>>30605130
how do you moderate vorebombing?

The only reason everyone is busting a nut about this is that the mods were finally BTFO in their own game

>>30605130
Too much content to moderate it all at once without automated stuff that can point us in the right direction.

>>30605133
>vorebombing

I'm stealing this for later use.

>>30605153
I want to swallow a bomb, and when it explodes in my stomach instead of killing me my stomach gets full of ponies.

>>30605169
we're going places mankind is not meant to go.

The Smiling Pony is lolcow material.

The lack of self-awareness, the holier than thou attitude, the elitism, the incompetence.
So much to milk.

>>30605372
I really wish someone like him had a lesser position of power on that site though. The fact that someone with his attitude is allowed to make big decisions kinda fucks up the whole site.

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>>30605169
Like the hamster ball full of ponies, sitting inside your insides while the shrink ray wears off.
Why.

>>30604573
I liked the hide option, and I totally see their reasoning for removing downvotes. I'm only pissed they reverted it.

>>30605848
That some artists' feelings were hurt by downvotes? You think that's a good reason? That's just.. what the hell, anon?

>>30605848
>IP count didn't rise, again
Lurk more before you try to astroturf, Byte.

>>30605848
We got it, OP, you're desperate for replies. But, guess what, nobody cares.

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>>30605136

Hey, you mentioned last thread about looking for potential ideas on site functionality, so I figured I'd ask about maybe changing the new webm thumbnails somehow. I'm guessing they were implemented when complaints started coming in as people's toasters started catching fire when they suddenly had 50 webms playing all at once upon viewing the "animated" tag (or some other under the hood issue), so I understand the change. I just think they look kinda janky and horrible as they are, because the speed of animation and assortment of frames reminds me of a macbook trying to play any game from this century.

I dunno what would be an idea solution besides just slowing down the slideshow so it actually looks like it's _supposed_ to be a slideshow, or maybe just going with the first frame thumbnail system 4chan uses. Or if possible you could make it a user display setting, for either "don't animate, only show static thumb", "slideshow preview", or the original "full animation" option from when webm support was first implemented.

Granted I have no idea how much work any of that would actually BE, and it's a reasonably minor issue to begin with, but I figured it was worth mentioning while we're here.

>>30604573
finally my shit wont have more downvotes than upvotes!

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>>30605971
There's already an option in your settings to use the old thumbnails, it's just kinda hidden. Pic related. Works if you're logged out too.

I really don't know what to do about the thumbnails. They are janky indeed, but I couldn't find an animation speed setting that I really liked and spent almost a day tweaking it.

>>30605988
Has the option of NOT MAKING THE SAME CHANGE JUST DESCRIBED DIFFERENTLY been considered?

>>30605988
What about making a gif copy of a webm just to present it as a thumbnail so it won't lag.

>>30605988

Huh, how about that. Alright, cool, thanks.

Yeah, all I can say is maybe slower so it's less eyecatching, but who knows. At least now I won't be bothered by them since my computer actually has RAM for things like this, usually.

>>30605993
Your reading comprehension is severely lacking anon.

>>30606010
I didn't do that because there's no real way to guarantee that gif thumbnails generated that way won't have a huge filesize compared to a webm thumb (which was the original goal of allowing webm uploads, but then people started uploading huge files anyway, so...)

>>30606018
Note that because I didn't use a long expiration time for the cookie, you'll probably have to re-check the box occasionally. I'll deploy a fix for that in a little bit.

>>30606028
Much like your coding skills, bit.

>>30606031
>Calling him bit instead of byte
Clever.

>Having a voting system
Just remove it. Systems like these is why sites like Reddit are horrendously awful

>>30604957
>>30604944
You have all been told before: You CAN remove the mouthpiece tag from those images if you don't think it applies.

>>30606031
He's the most skilled coder I personally know, and making a mistake does not change that fact. It'd be great if people could stop riding on that.

>>30606077
Relax, it's just banter.

>>30606075
But can we add the mouthpiece tag to the image that fits the tag description?

>>30604944
>A pony being a metalhead
Using something as a mouthpiece implies you're trying to push a political agenda. The example you posted is a joke.
You're an absolute retard.

>>30606095
If the image actually fits the description. Yes. The applejack image does not.

And if you wish to argue that definition.
There was multiple comments on the image pointing everyone the the thread where the definition was decided.

Sadly, no one who seemed to care about the mouthpiece tag ever showed up.

>>30604957
> >>30606105

>>30606113
I see no mouthpiece tag on the image you linked.
Likely since the mouthpiece tag didn't apply to it.

>>30606107
You see, I think this is the actual problem.

Mods think that features and tags should be used exactly how they intended them, but then they let people misuse those features for years until that becomes the norm, then they expect everyone to just drop what they were doing when the mods finally decide to tell us for the first time that we've been breaking the rules.

Imagine it like an infection in your foot that you don't do anything about for a year. You wouldn't be able to just rub some lotion on it and it'll magically fix itself.

>>30606120
Simple explanation; Zeb was here, saw the example, then quickly went to mop up the mess 10 minutes ago.

>>30606137
That's why a discussion thread was made.
So people could decide on what the tag should be used on.
The current definition is what people decided.
If people want to argue that, they were directed to voice their opinion on it, and chose not to.

Heck, the thread isn't locked or anything.
Here's the link:
https://derpibooru.org/tagging/mouthpiece-re-evaluation-may-contain-problematic-stuff-on-either-side

>>30606105
The only retard here is (you). I posted that because it has(had) a mouthpiece tag.

>>30606152
Well yes. I was here.
I keep telling you guys to do it yourselves.
You refuse.
So I have to go do it for you.

>>30606162
Ok good, now add it to the one that's pushing the trans agenda.

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>>30606157
Oh.
I was thinking you were on the other side of the fence.
Sorry about that.

>>30606170
What's wtong with AJ being trans? There are tons of images where AJ is kkk racist without mouthpiece tag. Both situations portray her as a mentally ill person.

Do you still care about livestreams page? It has many problems and FAQ seems horribly outdated.
And there must be an option to enable controls/audio for webms by default.

>>30606070
Reddit is horrendously awful because its voting system relies on relatives. It's fucking retarded that votes add up so a controversial post has the exact same "score" as one that got just a few upvotes or downvotes.

There's nothing wrong with Derpi's system as it is now.

>>30606187
You mean the Picarto streams?
Byte or another dev would have to answer the specifics.
But what I've heard is that Picarto's [api? I don't know the right term] Is rather poor/annoying to work with.

As for the Webm's and default settings: Being worked on, but I don't think it's among the top priorities at the moment.
But I can be corrected if I'm wrong.

>>30606187
>>30606220

It's not a page I regularly visit, but artists are for the most part genuinely interested in adding their streams to the site tracker.

I added browser controls to the videos. Let me know what you think.

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>>30604576
This
Why the fuck are you autists spamming your retarded threads now
What the fuck does this have to do with us?

>>30605110
Moderate them like you have been doing for years?
They were perfectly content to do that for ages until the mouthpiece bullshit.

>>30605870
No don't you see. It's because of mass downvoting.
Nevermind that we keep mentioning users leaving because of downvotes it's the mass thing.

https://derpibooru.org/meta/debate-thread-for-or-against-downvotes/post/3232786#post_3232786
Savage

>>30606220
For channels list:
NSFW toggle resets with browser closing.
NSFW streams never appear on main page.
Live now/off air difference is too subtle, should be color coded like on main page.
Why are streams in reverse alphabetical order?
There is no button to stream page on mobile version. There isn't really a mobile version of that page.

FAQ
1. Is this supposed to show up anywhere?
2. It's picarto now

>I added browser controls to the videos. Let me know what you think.
Cool.

>>30606356
What does mass downvoting even mean? If someone is abusing multiple accounts to downvote, then mods should deal with that. If the community as a whole downvotes an image, then that is the point of downvoting; the community is saying, "I don't like this."

>>30606414
The first thing.
And yes mods should just do thier fucking job. What good are they if they are not dealing with abuse.

>>30606414
What we mean by mass voting:
People creating multiple accounts to downvote/upvote the same images.
Someone going through every image under a single tag to downvote them all.
Someone downvoting the images on the front page just because they're on the front page.

>If someone is abusing multiple accounts to downvote, then mods should deal with that.

As was said in the very first post of the announcement:
We have been. But it is both very time consuming.
And we first have to be notified about suspicious behavior.

>>30606393
And one of SFW streams has a nice horsedick in thumbnail :^)

>>30606315
look at the ip counter: they're desperate for attention, that's all.

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>>30606393
>NSFW toggle resets with browser closing.
fixed
>NSFW streams never appear on main page.
blame cache, can't fix easily
>Live now/off air difference is too subtle, should be color coded like on main page.
Like pic, except without css aids?
>Why are streams in reverse alphabetical order?
fixed
>There is no button to stream page on mobile version
pretty sure that neither livestream nor picarto have any mobile support so it's kind of useless

>FAQ
>1. Is this supposed to show up anywhere?
no, removed
>2. It's picarto now
added

>>30606433
It's not that we're not trying. There are 60000-80000 votes created on average per day. That's hard to moderate no matter what, and we lack good tooling to help us out too, because it's a statistical crapshoot.

>>30606545
>People creating multiple accounts to downvote/upvote the same images.
>Someone going through every image under a single tag to downvote them all.
>Someone downvoting the images on the front page just because they're on the front page.
I see nothing wrong with (2) and (3). In (2), they should just filter and it's rather pathetic that they would do that, but they're just expressing, "I don't like this" and contribute to the community sentiment. (3) is why even the perfect fimfictions and the best youtube videos always have those one or two dislikes; that's just how it is.

>>30606584
>Like pic, except without css aids?
pretty much
>pretty sure that neither livestream nor picarto have any mobile support
both work fine for me

>>30606587
>In (2), they should just filter
That's pretty much it. If the content is such that they cannot stand every single image under that tag. Then they should filter it instead of downvoting.
They should use the tools that exist to keep the things that offend them so much away from their sight, instead of marking it each and every time because they cannot stand it.

>(3) [...] that's just how it is.
Yes. It is something that happens on other sites. That does not mean we should just accept it.

>>30606107
>The applejack image does not.
It obviously does or we wouldn't be in this situation. Can you explain why it is not a mouthpiece?

>>30606637
Added the little tags to the display page, and added a link to the channels directory in the mobile burger menu.

>>30606725
I will quote here
> >>30606181
>What's wtong with AJ being trans? There are tons of images where AJ is kkk racist without mouthpiece tag. Both situations portray her as a mentally ill person.

>>30606753
nice

>>30606753
It's not about there being something wrong with her being trans, it's about the shirt. It fulfills the same purpose as the sign Sunset held up saying, "I'm gay", and is using a character that wouldn't normally have that opinion. She's neither reacting to a situation nor placed in some strange circumstance, she's just standing there basically holding up a sign that says "trans pride".
If she were actually doing something like Sunset and Twilight are in the picture right beside her under the artistic interpretation tag - holding hands and walking, pretty obviously in a relationship - I wouldn't be arguing this point, but as it stands she's nothing more than a pole for a bilboard to stand on.

Oh hey, another one of these.

OG mod/dev from yesterday who bullies byte for a living. AMA.

But seriously we're in the process of obtaining hard numbers on the direction to take on a whole bunch of stuff. Once we have a strong consensus from the staff, we want one from the users too (numbers, so a literal survey, like a council but more boring).

Of course people are gonna brigade the shit out of it so I don't imagine it's going to be helpful but at least we tried desu senpai.

>>30607235
https://derpibooru.org/forums/tagging/topics/mouthpiece-re-evaluation-may-contain-problematic-stuff-on-either-side

Jesus fuck
/mlp/ has become the worst kind of safeplace/hugbox.

>>30607362
at least try you retard
put some effort into it
can't be assed to use a vpn?

>>30606584
>paying for a stream
haha fuck off

>>30607362
I still think Background Pony's post is interesting. >>30589866

>>30605890
>>30605875
I'm not OP. Although I don't remember posting on this thread before.

>>30605870
...You didn't even read the whole post, did you? Let me ask you something. What are the comments on derpi for? Downvoting does nothing for the artist except say "it's shit". If you don't like something and aren't willing to comment on why, just hide it. Again, it was a much better system and it should've stayed that way.

>>30607345
As a response to your post in the other thread, I think that it would be a good idea to post threads here when a discussion about site policy is about to happen. As these threads have shown, some people do have some good points to make and probably wouldn't participate in the discussion otherwise.

>>30607667
Got it.

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>>30607661
When downvote died, mods said to instead comment saying you don't like something. I did that and got banned for rule 4. How am I supposed to filter "bad art"? There's no tag for "bad art" I can filter. The whole thing is just to protect artists' delicate feelings.

Furthermore, if I recall, mods said that one reason they reverted downvotes to normal is that they discovered that without them, comments can become really nasty, "sometimes in ways that don't violate the rules." I suspect my comments were among those, the ones like pic related I left on other art before they banned me for not doing the impossible.

Downvoting is much better for artists than people like me commenting why their art is terrible.

>>30607676
If you don't have anything nice to say, consider the site read-only.

>>30607676
I'm pretty sure that's just you being an asshole, buddy.

>>30607697
Actually, it's valid critique.

You just don't like how it was formated.

>>30607697

>I don't like coloring ourside the lines and how you draw the nose

That sound like a valid critique to me.

>>30607690
Just earlier today someone commented on one of my art edits, "Insta-downvote. This scared the shit outta me…" I'm glad for their diversity opinion, commenting why they don't like it and their reaction. A vapid hugbox would be the worst thing for the site.

>>30607703
>>30607734
Prefixing your critique with "I hate this" and interjecting it with "[that's] not artistic" are hallmarks of being an asshole about giving critique, even if it /is/ critique.

>>30607751
So you can only post critiques

If they don't hurt the artist/mod du jour's feelings?

>>30607676
>>30607697
Honestly, I think the way that image was drawn was a stylistic choice both a result of and meant to represent a quick doodle (colouring over the lines and quickly drawn muzzles) and I actually kinda like it, but you commented as if it was objectively bad. I don't think it needed to be removed considering the artist's response, but it was badly worded.

>>30607734
>I don't like coloring ourside the lines and how you draw the nose
That is valid critique, but he didn't write "I don't like it", he wrote "That's not artistic", as if his opinion were objective fact.

>>30607766

Rule #0 Be excellent to each other

This is the most important rule.
MLP:FiM is about sharing, friendship, and understanding. Don’t drag the site down into flamewars and angst – keep it constructive and positive.

-Attempts to antagonize others will not be tolerated.
-Do not troll, attack, insult, name-call, or otherwise try to intentionally antagonize another person or group of people. This includes making racial, sexual, homophobic, or otherwise demeaning slurs, or posting similarly abusive content.
-Criticism is welcome and encouraged when done so in a constructive and helpful manner. However, using baseless, unconstructive criticism as a veil for the purpose of insulting or attacking an image and/or an artist is not allowed.
-This rule applies to all images, comments, forum posts, and private messages, along with all other interactions you may make on this website.

>>30607751
To me that's why downvotes are a good thing because most people can't critique a work or critique without coming off as an asshole, so they need a way to voice their displeasure.

>>30607780
This HAS to be an ironic post.

Rule #0 - Submit fully to the mod du jour's whims.

>>30607772
>>30607780
All of this is discussing things that don't matter. The point is that it did not violate rule 0; in fact, it violated no rules. The mod had to abuse rule 4 for the ban even though there is no way to filter "art I won't like."

>>30607780
So explain why is was deleted for rule 4 then.

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>>30607790
This. So much this!

>>30607795
I agree with that, however I do think that it was bad critique because it masquerades as objective, no matter how valid it may be.

>>30607824
I agree it was bad critique, but that doesn't matter. It violated no rules.

>>30607790 This so much is what we should take away from this.

>>30607676
Could've been less of a dick about it. But hey, what can you expect from an anon.

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>>30607840
I ended up writing a nice apology to Pizza Pony on deviantart and he bounced back.

>>30607840
Could've been /far/ less of a dick about it. Half of the language there was utterly unnecessary.

Rule zero is pretty clear. Make some degree of effort to not be a complete cunt. I'm aware that such social expectations are absent on 4chan and other chans, as part of the entire purpose of the ephemeral posts, but we are not 4chan.

I said it in the last thread and I'll say it here: We cater to artists. Some artists are sensitive. I don't give a fuck if you think they should "fuck off for being thin-skinned". I don't give a fuck if "the site would be better without them". You don't have the data to make those sorts of calls and, honestly, they're incorrect.

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>>30607838
Eh, it can be argued as violating rule 0, but it definitely doesn't violate #4.

>>30607849
That's pretty nice, Anon. Good job.

>>30607849
What >>30607866 said.

I'm glad you made it up to him at least.

>>30607866
>Rule zero

It wasn't deleted for Rule 0.

>>30607902
That was most probably a mistake on part of the moderator who deleted the post. Those should've been deleted for rule zero. If you find it, I can update the deletion reason for you.

>>30607676
Honestly, this doesn't even seem that mean to me. Maybe I've been on 4chan for too long, but everything he said is true, and it wasn't like he was calling the artist a cunt and demanding they quit. It's short, gets straight to the point about what he doesn't like and then ends. Just because you don't sugarcoat your criticism doesn't mean you're attacking the artist.

>>30607914
No, the mod said that going around posting "I don't like thing" is a "big heaping pile of rule 4."

I wasn't going through particular filters and saying "I hate filter," or anything I could filter. I was just commenting on front-page art I thought was artistically bad and which I would have downvoted as usual, but mods said to comment saying why you don't like it instead.

>>30607932
>Maybe I've been on 4chan for too long

Maybe you're just less sensitive than others.

I'm sorry, but is literally /not hard/ to not be an asshole, especially when you have the time to sit and think about what you're writing before the recipient actually sees it.

Yeah, it's not what you're used to. Yeah, you have to put some effort into structuring your critique in such a way that you don't come off as a cunt, but if you don't want to do that there's an easy fix: Don't comment.

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Because someone asked, I fixed the deletion reason... it's not rule #4, it's rule #0.

>>30607942
The mod made a mistake. Shocking, really. Absolutely fuck them for being human?

We see a lot of people going through multiple posts spamming "fuck this shit" on it, and it's traditionally people who have hit a particular tag. They need to filter it, and that is Rule 4. Yours probably just got caught up in that particular mix.

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>>30607953
...It's not rule 0 and the original mod knew that.

>>30607955
It's not rule 0 and the original mod knew that.

What >>30607932 said is exactly right:
>It's short, gets straight to the point about what he doesn't like and then ends. Just because you don't sugarcoat your criticism doesn't mean you're attacking the artist.

That's all it was. "I don't like this art, here are two reasons why."

>>30607953
>>30607955
Please revert it back to rule 4, because per >>30607973 I did not violate rule 0. "I don't like this art, here are two reasons why."

If you say that is rule 0, you are digging yourself an even dipper pit of moderation abuse and >>30607676 would deserve an update.

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>>30607849
>A nice apology

>>30604573
Honestly they should have just added hide and kept down-vote. Best of both worlds.

>>30607849
>>30607876
>>30607895
>>30608012

My fucking sides

>>30607946
What was assholish about it? Pointing out that painting outside the lines was generally bad? That the nose wasn't drawn correctly?

This seems like a case of someone being TOO sensitive, rather than me being overly insensitive.

>>30608012
This is someone being an asshole.
>>30607676
This is someone giving constructive criticism without trying to sugercoat anything.

>>30607973
>>30608004

Bullshit.

>I hate this art
Unnecessary. Nobody gives a shit.

>The artist can't even color in the lines - no, coloring outside the lines is not artistic
This is actually a common art style, but assuming it wasn't intentional, there is no reason to word it like this whatsoever.

This is a rule zero violating comment. Sorry.

Here's a handy metric, as it's evident that some people here require one.
>Can I word parts of this so that I don't seem like a fucking asshole?
OR
>If I were to critique a work (pony or non-pony, about pony art or non-pony art) in this way to the artist in person, would they accept my critique?

>>30608004
>dae le mod abuse? xD
You're basically like reddit's /r/conspiracy, desu. We have better things to do than 'abuse' moderation powers for profit/our own good/our amusement. The pure outrage at /having moderation/ alone on the site is hilarious, but not unexpected given the utter lack of moderation 4chan has that people here have grown accustomed to.

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>>30608034

>This is someone giving constructive criticism without trying to sugercoat anything.


Maybe you need to know the derpibooru way.

If you don't like it just shut your mouth and move on

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>>30608012
Nice assumption.

Pic related was my actual apology.

>>30608039
Holy crap. You don't even call him a /x/ poster you reference some ledit no one knows about. Why are you even here.

>>30608034
>What was assholish about it?
The part where the valid critique masquerades as objective fact. The part about the nose is fine I guess, although it does not point out what is wrong with the nose, which could be exactly the information the artist needs. I do assume that it's so wrong it'd be easy to find out though (also I still think it's fine as a stylistic choice, but what do I know about art).

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>>30604899
>elaborate
theyre SJWs, therefore they dont consider their ideology to be propaganda but rather morally correct and universally accepted.

IE posting pro-trans message art isnt a political stance, its just common sense.

>>30608052
That's actually nice of you anon. I'm not used to nice on 4chan. >>30608012 made more sense

>>30608039
>"But...but it's his ARTSTYLE! It can't be refined or improved, because it's his ARTSTYLE, that's just how he draws."

Having an artstyle is no excuse for having bad art, and even the best artstyle can still be criticized and refined. Most good artstyle's evolve from having an understanding of anatomy and form; which in turn, only come from unrefined criticism and effort.

>>30608039
Spoke with the mod who deleted those comments, and oh baby it's a triple, oh yeah!

> i deleted those as he was spamming them
> he was just doing it to bitch about the downvote change, not as actual criticism

I checked, and it turns out this is indeed the case, so congratulations on breaking three rules (zero, four, and six) at once for the sole purpose of being a petty twat bastard. You probably spent more time doing that than I do moderating.

>>30608054
You browse 4ch and you browse the booru. There's almost a 100% chance you browse reddit too. I don't browse /x/ because I can watch retards talking about shit that never happens by simply browsing the site I help run.

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>>30608052
>I don't even dislike your art
>I only did it to spite the mods
kek, Anon pls

>Today I learned that derpi mods are literally no fun or dissenting opinions allowed
Jesus. I guess I'm sticking to /mlp/ and /trash/ for my porn needs. No mods to drag me out of my jew attic and shoot me for wrongthink

>>30608078
You're dying on the hill for someone who actually clarified they were doing it to spite the moderation staff. See >>30608052.

>>30608093
>not being a complete cunt is equal to literally following the democratic people's republic of derpibooru party lines now

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>>30608078

>Having an artstyle is no excuse for having bad art

This, we obtain shit like pic related when you accept everything.

This artstyle would be good(literally katie cook 2.0) if the artist actually improve

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>>30608093
I don't know what you expected, derpi isn't 4chan. Also you can use derpi without ever looking at the comments.

>>30608098
>The argument is invalid because the guy who made it was just messing around.

There's gotta be a fallacy here, but I don't know what it is. Regardless of why he made the argument, the argument still has merit. This is one of the core tenants of 4chan, that every post has to stand on its own. You have to consider the argument by itself, with no outside forces. And I believe that his criticism was gentle and to the point, and certainly didn't deserve to be removed.

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>>30608087
>>30608098
Derpimod, just because I was doing it to spite the mods' words doesn't mean I wasn't also serious! The criticism I gave was my genuine opinion; I decided to make my hobby to say why I hate things instead of just downvoting since I couldn't downvote anymore and because mods said to do that! My purpose was to show you why that is a bad idea, and it worked, mind you. That's why all of this talking about it holds water; I was being completely serious in my criticism.

>>30608098
>>not being a complete cunt is equal to literally following the democratic people's republic of derpibooru party lines now
Mean words never hurt anyone. Let commenters, artists, and whoever else solve their own problems. Govern less.

>>30608125
>even the best artstyle can be criticized and refined

Sure, but you can do that /without being a cunt about it/. It is literally this simple. There's no ifs, and no buts.

Derpibooru is not 4chan /mlp/. They are two distinct communities with a lot of user overlap. A not-insignificant portion of the latter feel the need to repeatedly complain that one community has a different set of rules from the former, and it's sort of confusing as to why this is the case. The rules are incredibly clear, and we in the last six months refined them again to ensure that they are crystal clear. Somehow, though, people still feel like they can rule-lawyer against rule zero especially after they've been a monumental fuckstick in the comments of someone's submission by claiming "but it was CRITICISM SO THEY GET BETTER!".

No.

>Why is the coloring outside the lines? Furthermore, what's wrong with her nose?
What would have been wrong with just posting this?

>>30608146
>>30608127

Mean words cause content creators to leave and not return.

You claim you're wanting to help people refine their artstyle, but in the other hand your refusal to just not be such a shitcunt about it all may cause people to literally quit. Makes you think, doesn't it? You can't have your cake and eat it, here.

>>30608155
Exactly. It's even less to type. Perhaps the effort to distill the original comment into something that isn't asshole snark is just too much?

>>30608155

Those are question, not criticism

>>30608162
>Mean words cause content creators to leave and not return.
If their sensibilities are so delicate, then why are they on the internet? Why can they not just pull the constructive parts from a comment and ignore the rest? Perhaps it's for the best that they leave if they're so readily offended by harsh words. With them gone, another artist with thicker skin and the ability to pick out criticism from shitposting can thrive and improve in an honest environment.

>>30608190
Read: >>30607866

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>>30608162
Exactly, and a downvote is better than my leaving a comment like I did which, mind you, made ProvolonePone delete their DB image and leave the site until I apologized on DeviantArt.

Downvotes are a cushion against the malcontents; this is part of their purpose and the point I was making through the whole exercise.

I wasn't even trying to be an asshole; in my criticisms, I was just talking like I usually do. Same would go for all the other people who, like me, aren't art critiques, but would comment if they couldn't instead express disapproval through a simple downvote.

>>30608150
And I'm saying, he's not being a cunt, you're just being over sensitive. Hell, how can you even have a rule that is entirely subjective based on what you think being kind is or isn't? What if there was a mod who's idea of attacking some is literally telling them to kill themselves, but everything below that is free game? It makes no sense.
By your metric, the only criticism that can be allowed is empty, vain 'oh, why did you make this choice instead of this other choice?' It doesn't help anyone and it actively stifles thinking.
There's nothing wrong with hard criticism, especially when the person giving it isn't even being that much of a cunt about it. There's nothing wrong with telling someone that their art needs improvement, and pointing out specific places to do so, espeically when the guy didn't even call the artist a single bad name or insult them in any way.

>How to solve everything:

Just add a fucking option to enable the uploader of the pic to disable the comments of the image that he/she is uploading.

>Want to prevent the abuse of this?

Just make it work when you're uploading the fanart. You can't turn on/off(if you allow the comments in the pic) after that

>Want to make it for the artist?

Only work with the user with the artist badge or some shit.

Inb4 this is a script hell for the developers

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>>30608098
i believe both sides are capable of going too far. since youre the staff, its your job to be better than that. its also your job to be empathetic. you dont have to do everything everyone asks, but you also cant just ignore concerns up until they explode and then pretend like your shit doesnt stink.

the guy may have been as asshat, but his actions did bring forth a relevant point. theres an arbitrary line in rule 0 which basically says mods can do as they please without justification. there was a backlash with the mouthpiece debacle because many users disagreed with the ruling. rather than consider their positions or reasoning, you shut them down. what the fuck did you expect the response to that to be? how many people arent spamming negative comments but are still having their comments pruned for not being model citizens and soft balling everyone they criticize? how much of a say do you give artists on what people say on their comments, for better or worse?

also for your consideration
>>30597785

>>30608219
>What if there was a mod who's idea of attacking some is literally telling them to kill themselves, but everything below that is free game?
That's why every mod is required to be in the staff IRC when moderating. So we can monitor eachother and question why something that seems odd was done.
As for why those deletions slipped past the radar:
Those 5 hours were EXTREMELY busy, I'm sure anyone who was there can remember the large amount of outrage. And attempting to moderate and keep track of everything was a bit taxing for the 5 or so of us who were active at the time.
At the moment people began just posting comments saying "down vote" or "I would have downvoted this. but I'll just say it instead. Downvote"
We began to crack down harder on those trolling comments.

It's possible anon's comments were both deleted because of his second one, which was intended to troll. And in the process of cleaning the troll comment, the one that was only rude was deleted as well. But I wasn't the mod who did it at the time, so I can't speak directly for them.

The regular comment is restored. The one directly stating he was trolling is removed.

>>30607697
>>30607751
>>30607946
>remove the mechanism that keeps people from being such huge assholes
>"hey guys stop being such huge assholes!!!"
Really gets my noggin joggin'.

>>30608259
Thanks for restoring the original criticism, but the other one was simply saying, "I would have just downvoted, but mods told us to comment instead" isn't?

That's literally what TSP said to do. Saying that I was commenting instead of downvoting because mods said to do that is not trolling; I was just making a point about an effect of removing the downvote.

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>>30608243

>disable the comments section

Derpibooru can't handle that

>>30608275
Guess why we gave it back... (among other things)

>>30608296
because you couldnt think of a good reason to remove it in the first place?

>>30608275
>I am literally incapable of using a site unless it has an outlet for me to be an asshole in some way.

>>30608306
Everyone on the internet is an asshole. The best sites plan around it.

>>30608321
Good excuse for your behaviour senpai.

>>30608306
im curious why being honest is considered an asshole thing to do. sure theres some point that only go out to shit on everything, but what about those that just speak with brutal honesty? is "golly anon, keep trying! im sure youll git gud someday!" really better than "you suck, but you would suck less if you did x and y."

>>30608286
>Saying that I was commenting instead of downvoting because mods said to do that is not trolling
In your apology you directly say:
>I was just being as intentionally cruel and spiteful as I could to backfire the mods words against them, searching for art about which I could make up something to hate even if I didn't.

That sounds like trolling to me.

>>30608341
>but what about those that just speak with brutal honesty?

They can tone it down a touch and will have no issues.

Brutal honesty is a coward's code-word for "incapable of filtering my thoughts".

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>>30608353
artists use lies to tell the truth. i cant help but notice he was pruned before he admitted he was trolling.

>>30608353
>Intentionally cruel and spiteful comes out as 'I don't like this and here's why.'

Wow, this guy is too pure for this world.

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>>30608369
>filtering
you mean lying.

brutal honesty is still honesty. what youre suggesting is not being honest, but rather being polite. you dont tell the artist he sucks even if he does, you tell him hes great but he could be better. you dont tell him his art bothers you for specific reasons, you praise him for his artistic style choices. and so on.

some people are assholes just to be assholes, but can you tell me what happens when an artist sets out only to garner attention for himself and no one can call him on his bullshit because youve turned it into a safespace? what about artists that have no intention to improve? artists that are making the same mistakes years later that can call everyone who tell them theyre doing a bad job a troll and have them removed?

im not saying brutal honesty is perfect, but it 'is' fair.

>>30608411
That is rather true.
It's like Fluttershy being so frustrated she could kick something, then barely tipping a vase.

>>30608418
What I'm suggesting is there's no need for vitriol. That's the end of it. Stop trying to put words in other people's mouths, it's getting really tiresome.

Go read the rules and report back. Or not, I'm a moderator, not a cop. I'll just ignore deliberate misinterpretations of really fucking simple things.

Last thread had some good discussions around what to do for the future. This one is a bunch of people rule lawyering shit that can't be rule lawyered. I miss the old thread, straight from the go thread.

>>30608341
>>30608418
It's about how you say it. You can be brutally honest without being an asshole about it. Being polite doesn't mean you have to coddle them (e.g. "I really don't like this, I think this, this, and that are really bad choices and you don't seem to be very good at doing that" instead of "I hate this, that, this, and this are shit and you can't do that at all").

>>30608447
interesting coming from someone who did the same to me.
>Brutal honesty is a coward's code-word for "incapable of filtering my thoughts".
you made an assertion to my claim, i made one in response. to be perfectly clear, i consider myself brutally honest. you called me a coward and a liar. id say my response was very polite considering.
>>30608451
>You can be brutally honest without being an asshole about it
no, you cant.

just so were perfectly clear on the position the mods take
>>30607953
which part of this statement precisely was what did him in?
>I hate this
>the artist cant color in the lines
>coloring outside is not artistic
>whats wrong with her nose?
>i would have downvoted, but the mods told us to comment instead

because individually none of this breaks any rules. hes not entitled to love the art work nor say that he does. he made observations about the art piece and then even suggested what he thinks would make it better.
from what i can tell the only thing here that they have to go on is "he was rude" which just goes back to they dont want people to be honest, they want them to be polite.

which is perfectly fine considering its their site and they can do as they please. i would prefer they just not lie about it.

>>30608488
>no, you can't.

Then don't comment. It really is that simple. How are you not getting this?

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>>30608504
>Then don't comment.
your solution is if you dont have anything nice to say, then dont say anything at all. only talk to an artist if its to tell them how fantastic they are for existing.

see? was it so hard to admit you want tumblr 2.0 rather than honesty? just make it an official rule and we can all move on.

if this is not your position, then you need to explain why because so far every single thing youve said has been to the contrary.

>>30608488
>which part of this statement precisely was what did him in?
I had answered that question already.
>>30608259

>>30608488
I forgot to include this answer as well:
>>30608353

>>30608530
You are utterly deluded, if not completely stupid, if your interpretation of "just stop being so much of a cunt" is "wow you need to be positive ALL THE TIME!"

You really are a waste, anon. I'm sorry, but it's just not worth it. You're being deliberately obtuse for no real reason and I have better things to do.

>>30607790
Also sometimes you can tell something is bad but lack the artistic knowledge to be able to tell why it is bad.

>>30608531
>>30608540
just create a copy site of derpibooru and give mod status to 4channers, with the other being the atypical. That way, the two won't have to butt heads and a positive friendly relationship can begin with the two sides.

>>30608547
This.

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>>30608542
i cant help but laugh that youre sitting here being brutally honest while telling others not to be. doesnt it feel good saying exactly what you think instead of trying to make me feel good about myself?

im blowing what you say out of proportion on purpose to get you thinking. youre not perfect, mod. your actions arent perfect. your policies arent perfect. youre operating as if they all are, and im trying to point out the fallacy in it.
you cant even talk to me, a random anon on a different site, objectively about your policies and choices. what possible reason would anyone have to believe you would do so elsewhere then? you want the power to tell everyone theyre wrong and they can fuck off if they think otherwise. im telling you not to be surprised when people mirror that sympathy. you can point fingers all day but in the end this is all your fault. people doing this shit you dont like is a DIRECT RESPONSE to YOUR actions. this is the future you chose, and so on.

anyway, i think weve both said what we came to say. would you like to get back to the initial discussion about downvotes and comments? you didnt answer any of my queries.

>>30608664
>youre not perfect, mod. your actions arent perfect. your policies arent perfect. youre operating as if they all are, and im trying to point out the fallacy in it.

I appreciate this. I've been having a hard think about all this stuff and it's why I keep coming back.

>>30608664
Here is 4chan, not derpibooru. It's not against the rules here. I can call your points out as deliberately obtuse because they are, and I knew that before you admitted to it.

Objectively, I think you're an idiot. That's pretty much all. You're pretending to be some big philosopher but you look and sound like a total twat trying to justify your literal inability to just not be a cunt on a site where the zeroth rule is "don't be a cunt". I genuinely don't understand this perspective.

Trying to pin "oh man the staff aren't perfect you're not perfect" doesn't make sense either. The statement is true, but it's utterly irrelevant in the context of what you're babbling on about.

>>30608683
>>30608692
kek

>>30608692
You sound like one of those niggers on Judge Judy who keeps using big words to try to sound smart but keeps fucking it up.

>>30608714
Except none of those words are used incorrectly desu senpai.
>>30608712
We both acknowledge that the statement is true, I just think it's a pretty retarded aside to "oh man you won't let me not follow the rules!" from >>30608664.

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>>30608683
that takes a lot of wisdom and humility, and i mean that sincerely. no one has all the answers so its a good idea to gather as many ideas as you can to make the best choices. needless to say when someone makes a choice a vast group disagrees with, its at least worth investigating.
you seem like a really reasonable guy and im glad for it.

>>30608692
you can think what you will about me, but you still have to contend with the ideas im bringing forth.
my perspective is youve combined honesty and cuntness into one idea in your mind. people cant say what they think or else theyre breaking rule 0. at the very least, people have to coddle the artist before and after giving any sort of criticism. if this isnt the case, then youve made a poor argument against it.

on the contrary, you not being perfect has everything to do with everything. youre in a position of power and youre actively silencing dissent. therefore if youre not making perfect choices then youre forcing others in line with your mistakes and no one can tell you otherwise. you seem completely incapable of recognizing this and that in itself is very troubling.

>>30608730
Not that anon, but
a) Points can't be obtuse. People can be obtuse.
b) Objectively, you think he's an idiot? You mean subjectively, or really, just, "I think you're an idiot."

>>30608750
I can't really be bothered arguing grammar and proper word usage on a pony board to be honest, but:

a. Points may absolutely be obtuse in the same way an individual may be obtuse.
b. I'm not relying on my feelings for that, I'm taking a look at the posts that (I'm assuming) they're making unironically.

>>30608748
Not really. We don't have an obligation to be here and even discuss things. There was some good discourse yesterday which encouraged us to come back to the new thread. Today is just one or two dudes on the brink of complete exhaustion insanity shitposting about how us removing rule-infringing content is mod abuse and silencing dissent. It's a fucking pony site, not a government.

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Well this discussion has taken a turn.
I'm just gonna watch for a while~
Don't really have any input to give on this topic.

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>>30608779
You know, we should thank you and byte for discussing with us in the first place.

>>30608748
>Voicing opinions on art is dissent
Anon pls

While you do make valid points, I think you're blowing the problem vastly out of proportion. I would assume that most comment threads on derpi run just fine without any mod intervention, including those with opinions on art. I'll admit that I don't know that at all though.

>>30608791
and the other mod

>>30608779
evenly discuss things *

>>30608791
>>30608803
Probably, but whatever. If one point has ever been correctly made about /mlp/ by the booru staff, it's that we can never please you and everything we do will always be hated. Like I said yesterday, we may as well just shut the site down if we based our choices on the feedback we get from here and how often we're encouraged to kill ourselves and the like.

For what it's worth, today I made a survey (like a proper council guv'mint job) containing all the possible variables regarding the downvote/hide functionality, predominantly shaped by discussions from yesterday's thread. It's with the staff at the moment. After all the staff have completed the survey, it'll probably be open to the public as well in about a week. I can release the numbers at the end.

I fully expect /mlp/ and other associated places to brigade the shit out of the survey, which will disappoint me greatly, but at least we tried. I'm sure you'll recognise some of the conversations yesterday as being options within the survey.

Based on these numbers (and these numbers alone), the dev team and the admin team will work out the best way to implement the features and changes requested.

>>30608779
>us removing rule-infringing content is mod abuse and silencing dissent
as i suspected, youre just completely incapable of recognizing my point. were discussing rule 0 and its use. the rule is entirely subjective. you think your decisions are objectively correct, but its impossible since theyre based on a subjective rule.
>It's a fucking pony site, not a government.
do you realize youre not even taking your own rules seriously and still expect other people to?

>>30608800
i probably should have clarified, but its not just based on this one incident. silencing dissent was more towards the mouthpiece argument where instead of mods realizing a multitude of people feel one way and asking them why, they basically told them to shut up or they would be banned.

>>30608816
>we can never please you and everything we do will always be hated
oh please, dont play that card. you cant please everyone*, but when a lot of people bring up a point you should listen.

>>30608829
>were discussing rule 0 and its use
After five years of operation we have a pretty good baseline for what is and isn't breaking rule zero. Obviously, what breaks almost all of the rules are subjective to some degree, but the collective experience of the moderation team over the last half decade is on call for any moderator at any time when they make a moderation decision, which means that the line we've drawn for what is and isn't breaking of each rule is right there, and plenty of arguments for and against content breaking a rule happens regularly. Another mod mentioned before that we all have to be in IRC when we're performing moderation duties, which is true. Moderators have actually been removed from the team for not doing this.

>>30608843
It was an exaggeration but to be completely honest it's not far off. That said, most of the time we just watch the screaming as opposed to actually doing anything or feeling bad about it. This is the first time I'm aware of that any of the development team (me and byte) has come to /mlp/ wanting to actually discuss the changes we're looking to make.

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>>30608087
>an anon from /mlp/ who is constantly linked from /mlp/ to porn on the site with the most pony porn on the internet, derpibooru.org, and is most likely a clopper and regularly uses derpibooru.org to clop is therefore almost certainly a reddit user
>somebody did some mean stuff to prove a point and therefore the point he was trying to prove is invalid
>don't be mean you petty twat bastard

>>30608829
I'll admit I don't know a lot about the mouthpiece drama because I think it's utterly fucking pointless to argue that much about one tag on one image, but weren't people also offered repeatedly to discuss in the forums and never did?

>>30608895
Yes.

>>30608893
Also yes.

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>>30608856
peoples ideas and opinions of what rule 0 represents can change gradually over time. while it might not seem like such a big deal in little increments, i highly doubt the line has been stationary for all 5 years. if you could somehow get a measurement of 4 yrs ago and now im sure the change would surprise you.
the IRC thing is a fantastic idea and im glad you operate that way. its a good start, but at the same time its not perfect either. what happens if and when the IRC is an echo chamber?

if theres anything you take away from my arguments here, its that you should operate under the assumption youre wrong rather than right. youll make far less mistakes that way.

>first time
does that not strike you as a problem in any way? its good youre doing it now, but at the same time it just sort of strengthens my other points significantly.

>>30608895
im not sure. i only know the outcome was the mouthpiece tag wasnt put onto the image in the end despite all the reasons for it to be.
>Using a canon character to further an opinion, agenda, or message (whether positive or negative) they would not normally have.
unless you want to present evidence AJ is canon transexual, its a mouthpiece by derpiboorus own definition.

>>30608829
>they basically told them to shut up or they would be banned.
Well I guess I'll step in again.
Honestly: I can't remember every comment made on that image, and I'm not going to sift through them to check.
So I'll just say: Ok. Maybe some mods said that. I don't know but I'll accept it.

But what I DO know, is that people were asked multiple times. For days on end. To bring the discussion about the tag to the forum thread if they actually disagreed with it.
With links to said thread given every time.

And no one did.

Instead of taking the thoughts and discussing them in the place made specifically to discuss that direct topic. People preferred to complain and yell in the comments of the image.

If you want us to take the claim that the mouthpiece tag was truly the problem. Then someone should have actually tried discussing it in the thread made to discuss its definition.

Heck, I've even linked the thread here, today. And STILL no one has actually tried discussing it in there.

Why am I supposed to believe the tag was the real problem when absolutely no one who was complaining about it has actually tried helping with writing the definition?

> the rule [rule 0] is entirely subjective.
Yes. There is some subjectivity to the rule. The very first line of it is only "Attempts to antagonize others will not be tolerated." which can mean any number of things from different perspectives.

But as I said before: That's why we must be in the staff IRC whenever we are performing mod actions. If someone starts deleting things that others don't think really count as rulebreaking, it's talked about. and usually the comment is restored.

Yes. Sometimes more innocent comments are deleted. It happens. We try to avoid it, but it happens.

But people are not banned for simply having an opposing opinion or not liking something.

Even someone just calling another user a faggot normally just gets the comment deleted and _maybe_ a message to stop doing that.

>>30608931
>peoples ideas and opinions of what rule 0 represents can change gradually over time. while it might not seem like such a big deal in little increments, i highly doubt the line has been stationary for all 5 years. if you could somehow get a measurement of 4 yrs ago and now im sure the change would surprise you.

We have a history spanning back to day zero of every ban ever made. The line has moved because the social expectation has moved, but we don't adhere to 4chan's social norms for obvious reasons.

>does that not strike you as a problem in any way?
We don't have an obligation to come here and discuss the things we're doing. It's two separate communities. If you want to chat about the changes on the site, you can do it on the site. Literally the only reason we're here is because yesterday's thread caught one of the mods' eye when he was called out, and he mentioned that the board had another thread up about us, then yesterday had some good conversation. Of note, however, is the incredibly low volume of 'good conversation' to baseless accusations and dumb statements.

So, no. I don't think it's a problem whatsoever. I actually think it's a going to be a problem that we're doing it /now/.

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>>30608785
>>30608932
You're a nice mod who has stayed professional in this thread. Good on you. The other mod does not.

>>30608748
>that takes a lot of wisdom and humility, and i mean that sincerely.
it's taken me a long time to come to the point where I've realized that I really don't have all the answers, and that I would do well to take criticism from what I would consider to be the harshest people around to be criticized by, because more often than not they have some point to make that is normally overlooked. These threads aren't easy for me to participate in but they're more than worthwhile.

>>30608791
I'm continuing this thread here because (a) I feel like the inputs I can get here are better than those I can get by site regulars and (b) I think there's a lot of unfair hate leveled at /mlp/ just for the shitposters in the bunch, when really it's just as diverse as the rest of 4chan

>>first time
>does that not strike you as a problem in any way?
it's absolutely a problem, one that I should have really tried address long ago.

>>30609035
I feel like you're overinflating the sum value of conversation over the last two threads, but you're here considerably less so whatever. (^:

>>30609011
lmao

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>>30608932
>And no one did.
ill assume thats correct, but does that make the points they brought up in the comments less relevant? the comments shouldnt be the place for discussion of policies, i agree, but at the same time they shouldnt be discarded outright for it as seems to be the case.

as an aside, do you need an account to post in the forums?

>"Attempts to antagonize others will not be tolerated."
thats fine, but it requires one to decipher intent. its usually pretty obvious when someones intention is just to piss someone off, but from what ive seen it also catches comments where thats not the intent. the whole brutal honesty argument. it also seems to be a convenient way for mods to remove comments they just dont like. its good youre actively trying to work against that, but nonetheless it does happen. i suppose then theres nothing really more than can be done about it.

>>30608980
so you know for a fact the baseline shifts around. my point is you need to keep an eye on it because what was acceptable yesterday might be a bannable offense tomorrow as you shift slowly from whats honest towards what makes people feel good.

i never suggested its an obligation. you dont have to listen to anyone, ever. hell, you could just outright ban everyone who you dont like and not give them a reason. what you can and cant do has nothing to do with what you should and shouldnt do.
its far less separate than you think. ive witnessed people get extended bans on derpibooru for discussing their ban or warning on /mlp/. id also suggest a large number of your userbase frequents /mlp/. the policies dont have to intertwine, but the cultures are extremely similar regardless.
this may be the first time mods came here to discuss their policies openly, but its definitely not the first time mods have come here. dont pretend youre better than this place.

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>Muh opinion is gud
>Nazi mods oppressing the people
>your rules are too subjective.
>Website creators and mods can't define the rules

Holy fucking shit this thread.
It's like telling a judge he can't define the law.

>It's a literal din du nuffin thread.

>>30609099
It's always been about what makes people feel good, mate. The rule is literally titled "be excellent to each other". The movement of this line is tempered by the fact that we have some 30 active staff that have been around for a long time.

We ignore /plenty/ of rule zero reports about other users which are people getting offended that they got called out for doing something stupid, or they posted something dumb, or are being told off by other users. What's more, deletion for R0 only rarely results in a ban, and that ban isn't final. Coming to discuss it with the staff via PM or IRC generally results in a reduction or removal if there's some genuine attempt to find a middle ground.

>id also suggest a large number of your userbase frequents /mlp/
A large number of the staffbase do. I anonpost in the RD thread almost daily.

>the cultures are extremely similar regardless
I would honestly say that this is largely untrue. There is a distinct difference in culture between here and the booru. The interests overlap, but the overall culture is incredibly different.

>dont pretend youre better than this place
I absolutely didn't mean to. Like I said, I'm here daily. I just don't namepost. But when I'm anonposting in other threads, I'm not here to obtain feedback, I'm just here to shitpost like everyone else.

>>30609035
coincidentally that brutal criticism is what kept me here to begin with. i wanted to get better at writing and drawing and i knew this place wouldnt pull any punches. dont get me wrong, some people are just assholes, but more often than not youll gain a lot of useful information from criticism around here. this is because no one here is obligated to anyone else. no one knows me, i dont know any of them. the only thing they can comment on is my work, my words and my ideas. its about as nonpartisan as you can get.

its good youre looking for as much input as possible and still deciding for yourself in the end. i think its too easy for people to group themselves and others into categories they can dismiss when really people should just keep in the mind that not everyone is out to shit on everything. people do have genuine concerns and they have their reasons for having them even if they convey it poorly sometimes.

>>30608293
>>30608243
more like disable background ponies

>>30609099
>do you need an account to post in the forums?
No. I believe you only need one to _make_ a thread. But I'm not 100% sure on that.

>shouldnt be discarded outright for it as seems to be the case.
That is true. But the question had come up in the thread specifically about the Pride images. And it was decided that, since the images did not match any of the other images under the mouthpiece tag.
As in: They were not directly telling the user how they should feel about a subject.
And not using the character to complain about a topic unrelated to MLP in any fasion.

It could be argued that supporting homosexuality may be considered telling someone how they should feel on a subject. But that is a far harder line to draw on what would count as a mouthpiece then. As people could attempt to argue that the characters in an image being openly gay could be considered such.

And for filtering purposes for people who did not wish to see the applejack images or simpler, we made sure they were tagged with "pride" and "Pride month" so that those could be blocked as well.

On a semi-related note: I saw people in the comments and here complaining that images of a character wearing the trump MAGA hat were tagged mouthpiece. I had said they could be removed if the person wanted to. Though their response was they wouldn't because they'd just be banned for it. [Which wouldn't have happened]

A little bit ago I cleaned out those images from the tag as well. Aside from 2 or 3 which did seem to fit the mouthpiece criteria.

>>30609182
Nah we're strongly for having anonposting.

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>>30609150
>"be excellent to each other"
your idea of excellence doesnt match mine or anyone elses idea of excellence, as ive said multiple times. im curious. how does your 30 some staff members decide on a ruling? is it a majority vote deal, or is there some chief mod that has the final say? what happens when two mods disagree on what should be done?

>dashfag
ayyyy boi. ^:)

the overall culture is incredibly similar, its just people get called out on their shit less often there. its sort of a window into what this place would be like if mods actively worked on quality control.
scary aint it?

>I'm just here to shitpost like everyone else
>like everyone else
anon. stop.

>>30609190
ah but for evading b8 is strict for derpibooru

>>30609199
>your idea of excellence doesnt match mine or anyone elses idea of excellence, as ive said multiple times
I'd venture that in order to become staff, you probably need to at least be somewhat similar in your opinion on the rules. I say 'somewhat similar' because there's still a large number of varying opinions about all of the rules, which is obviously a good thing.

>how does your 30 some staff members decide on a ruling?
It really depends. Most of the time staff are more or less left to their own devices. In order to be in a position where you have the permission set to delete comments and ban users, you must first have been a site assistant for a period of time, which is a role that can do a number of things predominantly pertaining to site metadata (tags, etc.), but in the staff channel, so they can see the discussions that go on and the decisions that follow in order to fully be immersed in where, "generally", the lines are drawn.

We have a bot that livestreams mod actions into the IRC channel (all the way down to so much as claiming a report but not actioning it yet), so everyone can see what the other staff are doing. If disagreement about an action arises, a discussion generally follows until all the variables are hashed out and it's somewhat unanimous. If an agreement can't be met, there's "senior moderators" to go to who can make a final decision with the proper information. Those senior mods don't have identifying tags or anything, but there's I think three for different types of issues (tags, user relations, and images). If it involves technical work it comes to me and/or byte.

If a decision /still/ can't be reached and/or the senior mod is unsure, it's deferred to Joey or The Smiling Pony. They're the redtags and take ultimate responsibility for the site, so their call is always best call. That isn't to say they overrule the staff. I'd argue TSP treats the staff more like a democracy than he sometimes should.

1 / ?

>>30609199
>ayyyy boi. ^:)
Best pony and will fight for that title.

>its sort of a window into what this place would be like if mods actively worked on quality control.
Probably, but that leads to hugely different cultures. People don't drop racial slurs so liberally on the booru, for instance.

>anon. stop.
I'm talking about threads that aren't this one, there.

Turns out it was only 1/2.

>>30609183
>As in: They were not directly telling the user how they should feel about a subject
id have to disagree with this as it was as much a mouthpiece as maga hats. its just a symbol that represents a stance. pro trump. pro LGBT. same vein. LGBT has nothing to do with mlp in any fashion.

you dont have to add all homosexuality under mouthpiece, but blatant pride pieces are in fact a mouthpiece. you can be a faggot without being political about it. needless to say supporting the LGBT pride movement isnt the same as being gay or making gay art. pride is a political statement and a political movement.

>removing the tag from maga hats
at this point i have to question the point of the tag at all? i would have thought itd be to remove all political cartoons if someone desired.

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>>30609248
>pride is a political statement and a political movement.

In truth, I'm not to clear on how celebrating not being discriminated against connects to politics.
But I'll fully admit I've paid almost zero attention to Pride and Politics in general.

>i have to question the point of the tag at all?
For the most part, it was decided that the most textbook example of what would fall under the tag would be the image I have here.

Mouthpiece leans towards more of the subjective tags, since after a certain point, it's no longer obvious if the image is trying to force an agenda, or just happens to have said agenda in it.

>>30606712
You can really just detect it: check if the user searched for a certain tag, check if he is downvoting at the speed of sound, check if he's downvoting images one by one or like >25% percent of the presented images and then undo all his actions, add the tag to his filters, add "fag" to his username.

>>30607330
>AMA
>desu senpai
>reddit spacing
Just leave.

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>>30609351
>implying it wasnt ironic

>>30609361
>I'm only pretending to be retarded.

>>30609331
I do not believe we keep track of user searches. [though I can be corrected]

So our only real chance of finding mass vote abuse is someone reporting it, or one of us just happening to notice the same name cropping up on similar images, and we investigate further.

>>30609365
>a different posting style to you is 'being retarded'

ok

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Despite the shitposting, I'm pleased to be able to at least hold a conversation with dorpiburpoo mods.
Thanks for at least discussing it, It may not be all fun and smiles, but I see both sides in this making progress.

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>>30609236
>their call is always best call
that hurt to read. all of these arguments are stemming from the idea that sometimes its not the best call. if nothing else the whole issue around downvoting shows as much.

>best pony
shes not worst pony, but far from best.

>other threads
doesnt matter which threads you do it in. just dont shitpost. regardless of outside perception of this place its not here just for people to act retarded.

>>30609305
>In truth, I'm not to clear on how celebrating not being discriminated against connects to politics.
is that really in truth? you worded it in such a way that leads me to believe otherwise.
the LGBT is a political movement, much like feminism. it even has political lobbyists. also much like feminism, it claims to represent the desires of the whole group. that it speaks for all the faggots of the world. well, it doesnt. at its core its just a political group like any other. pride month is a political movement like any other. its not about being normalized or not discriminated against, its about pushing your ideology onto others. in the end its counter productive to treat something as special while trying to claim its normal.

the way you worded it creates a false dichotomy out of the whole thing. "what, you dont support the LGBT political stance? well what are you, a bigot that hates faggots?" as i pointed out the first time, you can be gay and not make it political.

not to mention the whole idea of being proud of something outside of your control is ridiculous. like a blue eyes pride month, or blonde hair pride month. you cant have it both ways. either its not normal and therefore worth pointing out, or it is normal and not worth mentioning.

>after a certain point, it's no longer obvious if the image is trying to force an agenda
to be perfectly clear, the LGBT is about pushing an agenda. mouthpiece says positive or negative. even if you think its positive its still an agenda.

oh, and white pride ^:)

>>30609368
We do not track user searches. They're available to look at in the nginx logs if you get there before logrotate does, but only someone with server access can do that, and will probably only bother if it's something serious because that's a pain in the ass.

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>>30609368
Some algorithms for suspicious activity would need to be programmed server side, but its a matter of time constraints,
Only way we're going to be able to spot it is if you open the data and shares who votes which way for what pics. Until then, you hold all the cards in this game.

>>30609378
It's been more pleasant than I expected, especially towards the last few hours.

If you ever want to chat about technical shit outside of these threads and whatever though, the IRC is always open and the devs are more than happy to talk shop about features and stuff. We volunteer to do exactly that. No, we don't log IPs or whatever. No, we don't care that you browse /mlp/. Like I said, I'm a regular in the RD threads.

>that hurt to read.
I meant if it goes up to the third layer of "command" because nobody can decide, the decision we take is probably gonna be the decision of the person who owns the site and takes ultimate responsibility for it. Don't you think that's fair? Like I said, at every level all the information is re-collated to ensure that as much of the full picture is obtained as possible.

>shes not worst pony, but far from best.
Uninstall your browser.

>doesnt matter which threads you do it in. just dont shitpost. regardless of outside perception of this place its not here just for people to act retarded.
It's not really shitposting, I was joking.

>>30609406
Do you have any ideas as for how to make a robust system that can identify "suspicious activity"? (Indexing and storage constraints shouldn't be a concern.)

>>30609406
We're kinda looking at establishing some baselines to notify people if anomalous behaviour is happening. We don't want it to automatically take action, though. That's just asking for trouble. Whether we go through with it or not though is a matter of dedicating the engineering effort.

>unironically training a neural network in the current year

>>30609370
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.

>>30609410
>oh im just pretending to shitpost!!

>>30609422
I'm sorry that making a joke has upset you so greatly. I'll endeavour to ensure that every single one of my posts contains zero (0) humour from now on.

"desu senpai" is basically engraved into my vocabulary since I append it to almost every sentence in IRC. The "reddit spacing" just looks better to me, honestly.

>>30609429
You've seen peak shitposting. We both have.

>>30609384
Starting to see where you're coming from.
Still not completely sold on those style of images counting as mouthpiece. But we are open to keep refining the definition to either include those images, or be clearer that they just stay under the "pride" tag.

Quick aside: Sorry my wording gave the wrong impression. Wordspeak is not one of my strongest aspects.

Though bringing in the politics aspect. There's a lot of images tagged with politics on the site. While maybe not all would apply as mouthpiece. There'd still be a rather large amount.

One of the goals of the tags is to make specific content easy to find/filter. The politics tag covers anything that ties into real world politics.
Pride tag covers the "love wins" and "waving different sexuality flags" kind of images.

While mouthpiece was originally placed on a specific style of [I believe] tumblr images. And slowly expanded from there. A few months ago, we began to notice it being tagged on a wider range of images and made the thread, to see if it truly applied to them, or maybe should remain as a more specific tag. Since the others had their own tags to specifically identify them.

The definition can still be improved upon, or tweaked depending on what's chosen to be included in it.

>>30609419
Yes, but i'll take my suggestions to private message so as not to burden 4chan with this.

>>30609484
Still waiting on that. (Not sure if you meant on the site itself, IRC, or somewhere else.)

>>30609602
Sorry, check cytube

>>30608087
How does
>searching for your fetish on derpi
Turn into
>you brows ledit
I have to say, I'm glad you consider yourselves comparable to that sjw shithole

>>30607667
That's an awful idea for a few reasons:
1. /mlp/ is explicitly divergent from the community of derpibooru, to the extent that derpibooru's community and anyone who use it is popularly mocked here.
2. /mlp/ has consistently fished for drama from the derpibooru community and staff for years. It's not suddenly going to be ok for derpibooru staff to come here and namefag and hold an AMA, which the idea of was literally just mocked in this very thread despite being a joke.
3. /mlp/ users have frequently expressed want for derpibooru to just replicate the /mlp/ environment, despite being told multiple times that not every site is or should be like 4chan.
4. It is objective to state that while many derpibooru users may lack a reasonable social filter when communicating their ideas, /mlp/ users would be much more prone to lacking any reasonable social filter purely based on the environment their use to enabling such behavior.

Now I haven't been paying much attention to this whole down vote fiasco, but it sounds like it was resolved fairly swiftly and in accordance with the derpibooru community's response? And in spite of the cordial discussion that apparently went on between derpi staff and the users here, I'd be disinclined to disregard this nifty little list on account of one anecdotal instance. Actually, I find it rather peculiar that of all the times /mlp/ latched onto derpi drama, the staff chose now to open extensive discussion here on /mlp/.

You can just rename downvote to "upvote's cousin" change the color to blue and there you have it, none of the artists will bitch about it.

>DONT HAVE MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS GUYS
>unless you're a mod, it's okay then

The not-so-Smart Pony is a goldmine.

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>>30610816
uh...

>>30610853
A simple misunderstanding stemming from how they were discussing ultiple accounts being bad, my bad.

He's still a goldmine of terrible though.

>>30610629
and some of the /mlp/ users commented on the meta thread(with less faggotry) just to make it clear and visible that not only the 4 circlejerks of the forums have a voice for everything

there was a part that stayed silent until the removal appeared out of nowhere

there has been a interchange of voices here,/mlp/ to DB forums and the mods of DB,here. At least,it was refreshing seeing that.

>>30609410
I hope you all kill yourselves you worthless faggots.

I once said (over pone discord) that I downvote shitty anthro images and some people were like "omg why do u even do that it makes the artists sad (even if their art is pure fatal-smelling shit) etc etc"

>>30611008
PS booru mods are selfish cucks

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>>30610861
>He's still a goldmine of terrible though.
I predict he's gonna be somewhat of a role model for me in how to NOT behave if I ever were to become an admin for a website.

Funny how awful people can be useful to more decent human beings.

>>30611123
I think if we keep insulting him he will add word filter to the comments.

>>30611625
wordfilters are a fucking stupid idea

>>30610816


He have multiples accounts?

Why?

>>30604621
>there are overall more people who like these pictures then there are people who dislike them

I don't see where the problem is

>>30606571
>they're desperate for attention
>half of the posts in this thread have been by mods

Am I supposed to be agreeing with you

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top kek

>>30612701
What was it?

>>30612715
He's reposting it from over two years ago, so I doubt he knows.

>>30606545
Just implement some kind of feature to prevent people from making new accounts under the same IP. You could possibly remove that restriction if said account has been inactive for a while. Sure people could still probably use proxy servers but it will make it more time consuming to actually do it and thus discourage a few people. Also Ive noticed that you can actually make accounts on the site with temporary emails. Fixing that is an easy method of cracking down on mass account creation. Not a perfect fix, but it's a hell of a lot better than fucking the entire voting system

Derpibooru's rotten moderation

nothing news guys

I heard faggotry and came as fast as I could! I also like repeating bad jokes!

>>30606571

Think about it, anon, who is more likely to be samefagging here? derpi mods, or the people that hate them?

The answer is everyone!

>>30612497

one for modding, one for general use with filters. most of the mods have one.

try and guess mine. :D

>>30612793
>one for modding, one for general use with filters. most of the mods have one.
>Think about it, anon, who is more likely to be samefagging here?

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>>30612804

>>30612831
get out jamal

>>30612831
You're all so horrible it was believable that you were being serious.

>>30612749
You just banned most of russia and the 15% of people that only access sites through cell networks.

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>>30612855

>>30612844

you don't trust little old me? i'm hurt, anon. really hurt.

>>30612855
We work with users who have to get around Russia's Internet censorship all the time.

>>30612895
[laughing]

>>30612895

aright, enough namefagging. i'm going back to lurking the fimfic general.

>>30612905
Russian here, this is relevant to my interests.
Is there some way to access derpi without tor? A mirror or some such? Google only comes up with random irrelevant shit.
Yeah, yeah, off topic, but where else could I ask? Fuck censorship.

>>30612920
Sadly, the only way for Russian users to access Derpibooru is Tor. It sucks, but then again so does the government of Russia and their Internet censorship bureau.

Some of the Derpibooru mods will be doing a panel at Bronycon. You can ask them there.

File: molester.png (1MB, 1280x720px)

1MB, 1280x720px

>>30614215
And God forbid

File: 1494429.png (857KB, 1920x2640px) Image search: [Google]

857KB, 1920x2640px

I'd suggest to give her a rest.
I swear...if she weren't in the site,you would know why EqD has less activity.

>>30602748
>>30602796

https://derpibooru.org/1496904

>don't need to click view anymore
>start mute

Thank developer, much better

>>30612920
V chem problema sidet cherez Tor?
PS gugli VPN i drugoe pohojee dermo

>>30612920
I believe the site can still be accessed via the trixiebooru.org domain, but don't take my word for that.

Also, just use Tor.

So.. what's it going to be like for Down Vote's future?

>>30612701
I got the same when I uploaded that meme of African city Equestria

>>30604599
Gotta be honest, the picture on the left is giving me more than the right one. I've seen the right one a thousand times before.

>>30614549
vse tolkovie vpn za shekeli, Borya

File: 1365770342752.jpg (651KB, 500x3777px) Image search: [Google]

651KB, 500x3777px

>>30616786
what meme?
https://derpibooru.org/92185

>>30617415

https://derpibooru.org/1454698

It should have been merged back, not deleted. I'll sort it out now.

>>30617415
I didn't know it's already exist there, but my post got deleted with message:
>4chan seems like a more appropriate place for this

>>30617450
They aren't wrong

>>30618099
>Hi TSP!
I think for archival purposes there is nothing wrong with this image.

https://derpibooru.org/meta/debate-thread-for-or-against-downvotes/post/3236182#post_3236182

Thoughts?

>>30618627
I don't see the need for it. Hiding tags takes 1 click as it is.