I believe Celestia would have a Tantabus

>>30299900

But would it be as graceful and sexy as Luna's?

Also, checked.

Nyx tantabus!

>>30299900
And they will handle it like shit

>>30299900
why

>>30299900
That was caused by guilt and Celestia does have to feel guilty for.

>>30299900
That looks fucking hype

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>>30299900
The show should pull stuff like this more often. I like the idea of unicorns and such screwing up and summoning some malevolent cosmic entity into reality.

>>30300172
It is just their dark side being manifested in a way that can be easily to understand.
If this show was for adults she would just have an internal conflict with herself.

>>30299900
Celestia doesn't have dream magic. She couldn't make one even if she wanted.

>>30299900
Her guilt isnt anywhere near that great for anything in particular.

>>30300138
You mean besides single handedly banishing her own sister away with all the burdens that caused both parties even if she did it for the good of her kingdom?

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>>30299900
Explain this

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>>30299900
>>30300172

what the hell is that thing?
it looks like something outta warhammer 40k or the chtulu mithos

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>>30301214
>DYEWTS

Oh who am I kidding, of course you don't!

>>30299900

Celestia has neither the mental state nor the abilities required to create one.

>>30301338
nor the fan following

>all this "CELESTIA CAN'T MAKE ONE BECAUSE X"

Since when was /mlp/ of all places lorefags to the extent they won't play with the idea? Pretty sure Daybreaker would have followed this model until the episode. Anything can happen in the span of one episode to make it so. Just entertain the idea instead of going hardcore debunking mode. It's not meant to be in the show. Fuck.

It's about as likely to be in the show as Anon as a character.

>>30301399
>It's about as likely to be in the show as Anon as a character.

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>>30301399
>>30301427
Whoops, forgot image.

>>30301436
Are you dense enough you think that's Anon?

>>30301253
>>DYEWTS
i used to watch it but i stopped at the end of season 2

>>30301442
It's close enough, and don't fucking say it's Slenderman. Slenderman doesn't have any facial features at all.

>>30301456
And people say I'm delusional. Alright it's not Slenderman it's Slendermane.

>>30301460
Well, if you want to be a pedantic cunt about it, fine.

>>30301399

/mlp/ has always been split in two parts, lorefags who love the show, it's setting, and discussing it, and bronies who are in it for the memes, self-insert shipfics, and the fandom itself. Since OP didn't properly label his thread as a General, this thread attracts a mixture of both people who watch the show and people who create their own stories.

For a lot of us, playing with the idea INVOLVES checking it's canonical validity and probability, and extrapolating from there. You won't see lorefags as fans of AiE or Gamer Luna, but potentially fully involved in ideas like Tyrantlestia.

>>30301526
I miss Tyrantlestia, that shit was funny. Though I guess it would be harder to get behind these days since Celestia has been made into a quirky pushover in terms of displayed power.

>>30301451
Then don't come into show discussion threads, retard.

>>30301541

You don't need raw power to be a tyrant. Even humans can be tyrants, despite their tendency to lack magical powers.
Celestia still has her precognition, controls numerous agents throughout the realm, and is the one currently writing the narrative. Tools well-suited for a tyrant, if that's the path you want to explore.
Personally though, although Celestia's political and social power is almost infinite, and she has directly subjugated the Crystal Empire and indirectly supported coups in the Changeling empire and Torch's dragon tribe, I don't think she's much of an "evil" tyrant.

From what we've seen, all the locations touched by Celestia's golden hoof are better off than they were before, and this is without a doubt true for the Crystal Empire. Discord was given a choice between eternal imprisonment or reformation, and I'd argue erasing Luna/NMM from the history books was a service to Luna. A way of separating Luna from the atrocities performed by NMM, and giving Luna a new chance to forger her legend from a clean slate. Celestia can erase history, but rewriting it would impose her own will over Luna, which she is reluctant to do.

>>30301633
>From what we've seen, all the locations touched by Celestia's golden hoof are better off than they were before
Twilight don't you have friendship reports to write?

>>30301904
It's possible, but I don't think it's likely the show has an unreliable narrator.

>>30300183
This isn't an uncommon trope in more mature works though. Especially in visual mediums.

>>30301456
This was designed as a reference to Slenderman, MLP Wiki lists is as a reference to Slenderman, 99% of the people who watched it and got it consider it a reference to Slenderman, and it's done in the style of Slenderman pictures where he's in the background. But no, you have to be autistic enought to insist that it is, in fact, Anon. You are the same as people who claim that the show is not in chronological order.

>>30300183
>If this show was for adults she would just have an internal conflict with herself.
Not necessarily https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3kuuu_mcw8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUdH_wvaLZk

Has someone drawn it?

last bump

>>30307138
new bump

i'm looking over a four leaf clover

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>>30299900
Well, it's unlikely that she has one, because luna's is a mental construct that she made herself with the purpose of self-punishment.
Unlike Daybreak/Nightmare moon, the tantabus does not exist by default inside an alicorn's mind, it has to be created.

And even then, the tantabus is a dream construct, and as we saw in the sister's episode, celestia has no dream magic, meaning that it would be nearly impossible for her to create something of that nature.

However, there is another very likely idea i've been thinking about:
What if there was a Daybreak/Nightmare moon version of Twi? Or even cadance?

>>30308310
>Unlike Daybreak/Nightmare moon, the tantabus does not exist by default inside an alicorn's mind
Sauce on this? The notion that Daybreak and Nightmare Moon both exist by default inside alicorn minds.

I can't seem to find any reference to that in the episode, only a hint at the opposite ("you will never exist again"), I.E. proof that an alicorn mind CAN exist without the existence of a Daybreak/NMM.

>>30308330
Well, it's a very likely assumption, since before the episode, the main idea was that NMM was created by luna in a fit of jealousy and rage, but then how does celestia has Daybreak if she didn't had the same issues as luna?
The most likely answer to this is that a Daybreak/NMM form is something natural inside an alicorn's brain. This is further supported by the fact that all alicorns are the embodiment of a vital concept or entity, the sisters are the sun and moon, twi is magic and candyass is love, this makes them heavily different from other ponies.

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>>30299900
What if Celestia IS a Tantabus?

>>30308483
>but then how does celestia has Daybreak if she didn't had the same issues as luna?
She doesn't.
>"Princess Celestia: It's Starlight Glimmer's. She's afraid this is what will happen if we continue to fight!"
>"Princess Celestia: No, you're not! You are not real, and you will never exist again!"
It's Starlight that has Daybreak. The episode literally and directly states Daybreak is not real, and explains it's a figment of Starlight's imagination.

>The most likely answer to this is that a Daybreak/NMM form is something natural inside an alicorn's brain.
No it isn't.

>This is further supported by the fact that all alicorns are the embodiment of a vital concept or entity, the sisters are the sun and moon, twi is magic and candyass is love, this makes them heavily different from other ponies.
Not only does this claim not support your argument, as you can't prove a correlation. What you're saying is blatantly untrue.
The moon is not a vital concept nor entity. Twilight is also the same as the other elements, Loyalty, Kindness, Laughter, Generosity and Honesty are every bit as vital concepts as magic or love, yet none of the mane6 aside from Twilight are alicorns.
And what of Flurry? What vital concept or entity does she embody?

>>30301526
I love the setting and its potential, but I feel the show has woefully squandered it tbqh.

>>30308551
>And what of Flurry? What vital concept or entity does she embody?
Cuckoldry.

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>>30300145
lol I take it you haven't got that far in the show yet?

>>30308776
I had been prioritizing episodes for the current arc. Stopped watching after S2, then got back in last year.

>>30308551
>It's Starlight that has Daybreak. The episode literally and directly states Daybreak is not real, and explains it's a figment of Starlight's imagination.
I dissagree, they only appeared when celestia interacted with the dream, and the whole time they only adressed celestia.
Also, the sentence gives us a clue.
>"you will never exist again!"
Implying that daybreak existed before that moment.
And even then we have more supporting evidence of daybreak existing before, for this I will reference the journal of the two sisters:
>"That was when Celie pulled out the best Royal Canterlot Voice I had ever heard. Suddenly, it was like Celestia was on fire! She actually glowed with fury, and her voice echoed in the air."

>>The most likely answer to this is that a Daybreak/NMM form is something natural inside an alicorn's brain.
>No it isn't.
I said MOST likely, the other option is it being only something about the two sisters.

>Not only does this claim not support your argument, as you can't prove a correlation. What you're saying is blatantly untrue.
>The moon is not a vital concept nor entity.
I'm saying vital in the sense of them being important or basic natural elements, if you take out the sun, everything goes to shit, if you take out the magic, everything goes to shit, if you take out the love, the same happens.
And if we had something along the lines of "princess of nature" then it would fall under the same category.

1/2

>>30308551
>>30308909
>Twilight is also the same as the other elements, Loyalty, Kindness, Laughter, Generosity and Honesty are every bit as vital concepts as magic or love, yet none of the mane6 aside from Twilight are alicorns.
They do not hold the same grade of importance as Twilight's element.

>And what of Flurry? What vital concept or entity does she embody?
As in the journal of the two sisters, they didn't know about their element until they got their cutiemark.
And considering the fact that they got it WAY too late, it will be similar for flurry's, we won't know her element until she gets her cutie mark.
Alternatively, she is the princess of buy our toys™

2/2

>>30308909
>Implying that daybreak existed before that moment.
She exists as a concept, an idea, until Celestia erases her.
Celestia literally, LITERALLY says "You are not real".

>I will reference the journal of the two sisters:
Not evidence.

>I said MOST likely
It isn't.

>the other option is it being only something about the two sisters.
Or something exclusive to Luna, since we've confirmed Daybreaker isn't real in a direct quote.

>I'm saying vital in the sense of them being important or basic natural elements
If you take out the moon, less tidal waves and marginally colder nights. Nothing goes to shit.
>if you take out the sun, everything goes to shit
We know from the Nightmare Moon timeline this is not true. Nothing goes to shit.
>if you take out the magic, everything goes to shit
What do you mean by this? What evidence do you have? Griffons and dragons seem to be doing fine on their own. Yaks and Buffalo too.
>if you take out the love, the same happens.
What do you mean by this? What evidence do you have?

>They do not hold the same grade of importance as Twilight's element.
If you take out generosity, everything goes to shit.
If you take out kindness, everything goes to shit.
If you take out loyalty, everything goes to shit.
Look, I can do it too!

>>30308968
>Celestia literally, LITERALLY says "You are not real".
Not being real doesn't mean it WASN'T real or it isn't GONNA be real.
And I have already provided existence of previous instances of daybreak
And even then, why does glimmy know about daybreak if she was never told about it?.
Daybreak only appears when celestia interacts with glimmer's dream, and she never talks with glimmer, only with celestia.
We also have seen instances of elements from one dream leaking into another, making it possible for daybreak to leak from celestia's mind onto glimmer's dream.

>Not evidence
Written by AKR when she was working on the show, canonized by hasbro and it doesn't cotradict the show, I think it's pretty canon.

>It isn't.
And that is because...

>Or something exclusive to Luna, since we've confirmed Daybreaker isn't real in a direct quote.
We also don't have a direct quote mencioning that cadance and shining rule the cristal empire, but we have more than enought evidence to say so.

>If you take out the moon, less tidal waves and marginally colder nights. Nothing goes to shit.
I'm pretty sure that the whole "the day will last forever" is pretty bad for the world, specially when one side is bruning down while the other is freezing over.

1/2

>>30308968
>>30309251

>We know from the Nightmare Moon timeline this is not true. Nothing goes to shit.
During the whole timeline we only saw the castle and part of the forest, everything could be going to shit for all we know, and we don't know how much time passed since nightmare moon takeover, it could have been just months.

>What do you mean by this? What evidence do you have? Griffons and dragons seem to be doing fine on their own. Yaks and Buffalo too.
You need magic to raise the sun/moon, so if it dissappears, then the previous escenario happens.

>What do you mean by this? What evidence do you have?
Take out love and the only thing left it's the polar opposite: hate.
What the flying fuck do you thing that happens then?

>If you take out generosity, everything goes to shit.
>If you take out kindness, everything goes to shit.
>If you take out loyalty, everything goes to shit.
>Look, I can do it too!
I said they don't hold the same grade of importance, not that they aren't important.
Twi became a princess due to the importance of her element, but that doesn't stop the others from becoming one in the future because their elements are still important.
And i'm pretty sure that you can still have a functioning society if you take out shit like strawberries or candy.

2/2

>>30309251
>Not being real doesn't mean it WASN'T real or it isn't GONNA be real.
That's some hardcore mental gymnastics. Do you agree that when Celestia says that, in that moment, she isn't lying straight to the audience's faces? In that moment, Daybreaker is not real?

>And I have already provided existence of previous instances of daybreak
Stop bullshitting. You haven't.
The short segment you quoted from the book isn't evidence of Daybreak. Daybreak does not "glow with fury", in fact she's more maliciously gleeful than furious.

>And even then, why does glimmy know about daybreak if she was never told about it?.
>"It's Starlight Glimmer's. She's afraid this is what will happen if we continue to fight!"
>"You are not real"
Because she made her up. Daybreak isn't real.

>Daybreak only appears when celestia interacts with glimmer's dream, and she never talks with glimmer, only with celestia.
Having dreams you aren't personally a central part of is very common.

>We also have seen instances of elements from one dream leaking into another, making it possible for daybreak to leak from celestia's mind onto glimmer's dream.
Or indeed, the other way around. From Glimmer's into the inexperienced Celestia's mind.

>I think it's pretty canon.
You're free to think that, but until it's addressed in the show, it's not.

>>30309452
>We also don't have a direct quote mencioning that cadance and shining rule the cristal empire
Irrelevant. Stay on topic.

>I'm pretty sure that the whole "the day will last forever" is pretty bad for the world, specially when one side is bruning down while the other is freezing over.
This is another thing you're "pretty sure" about that is nonsensical. Another thing you "think".
We know for a fact Celestia can raise and lower the sun without touching the moon. Just because there is no moon doesn't mean there's anything stopping her from lowering the sun.

>we don't know how much time passed since nightmare moon takeover, it could have been just months.
We know when NMM returns, down to the day. There's a prophecy and everything.
We also know enough time has passed for Dash and Rarity (one of which is Loyalty) to willingly side with and serve NMM without hesitation, and for the entire Everfree castle to have been rebuilt.

>everything could be going to shit for all we know
>for all we know
So here, your theory hinges on a baseless assumption regarding what we DON'T see, as opposed to what we do see?
For all we know, Fluttershy is a dubstep robot disguised as a pony, when nobody's looking she swaps her exterior skin to something less conspicuous and dominates the dancefloor.

>Take out love and the only thing left it's the polar opposite: hate.
Not true. This sentiment makes no fucking sense. Take away love and you're left with a hundred other emotions.
Better still, I can even give you an example from the show, proving what you're saying has no basis in the show: Changelings feed on love, yet their victims don't fall to ceaseless hate, instead they become lethargic.

2/2

>>30308310
>What if there was a Daybreak/Nightmare moon version of Twi? Or even cadance?
nightmare version of flurry heart
or how about nightmare version of fausticorn

>>30309682
what about nyx

>>30309452
>You're free to think that, but until it's addressed in the show, it's not.
That way of thinking is erroneous. The idea of canon is to ALLOW material that isn't directly addressed in the primary medium to still be considered part of the same world.

Requiring things to appear in the show before they're canon defeats the point of canon. If it were in the show, it wouldn't even be a question of canon in the first place, it would just be.

>>30309760

It depends.
What you're talking about is Extended Universe, the Journal of the two sisters, Equestria Girls, and even the comics are Extended Universe canon.
But the show, on it's own, is another canon. It IS meaningful to keep it separate, a level above the rest, because we can't take *everything* we see in the show as canon, the show does on a few rare occasions contradict itself. For example we can look at the color of Spike's egg.

What color, canonically, was Spike's egg?
In the pilot (I think... When he's talking to Fluttershy) he says he was born from a "green and purple egg", but in Cutie Mark Chronicles when we see the egg in a flashback, it's purple and pink-ish.

>>30309867
I don't understand the point you're making. How does the show having some internal contradictions place it a level above extended universe?

>>30309993
The show has internal inconsistencies, discrepancies, etc. (Winter Wrap Up airing before Fall Weather Friends, for example) therefore, it is meaningful to distinguish between "The Show" and "Canon", so requiring things to appear in the show does not defeat the point of canon.

If you're talking about extended universe stuff like comics, Equestria Girls, etc. you're talking about a different, much wider canon. About material not directly addressed in the primary medium. You're correct in so much that this is also *a* canon, or more accurately, a *collection of* Extended Universe Canons.

>>30310070
This.
In order of importance:
Canon > Extended Universe Canon > Fanon > Headcanon

>>30310070
I concede that it is fair to make a distinction between "show" and "canon." However, I do not see why it follows that the show should be regarded as distinct from or superior to other sources.

I seem to be unusual in my opinion that the medium is subordinate to the story, therefore as long as the story being portrayed by other sources is consistent with that of the primary medium (and is approved by the same creators) I feel no desire to segregate them.

>>30310116
>including fanon in the list at all
>ranking it above headcanon

>>30309452
>That's some hardcore mental gymnastics. Do you agree that when Celestia says that, in that moment, she isn't lying straight to the audience's faces? In that moment, Daybreaker is not real?
As a physical threat?, not real, but as an idea or something potentially dangerous inside celestia, yes, she exists.
When daybreak appears, celestia says: "No, it can't be...", heavily implying that she recognizes daybreak, this is further supported by her actions and expression after seeing her.

>The short segment you quoted from the book isn't evidence of Daybreak.
Celestia lit on fire seems like an accurate description of daybreak.

>Because she made her up. Daybreak isn't real.
Celestia recognizes daybreak and glimmer doesn't know celly is capable of turning into that, making it unlikely that glimmy made it up.

>Or indeed, the other way around. From Glimmer's into the inexperienced Celestia's mind.
It requires a lot of power for something to travel from one dream to another as seen in the tantabus episode, glimmer's nightmare would have a hard time reaching inside celly's mind, however a very powerful being like the tantabus or a actual corrupting entity like daybreak could do it easily from celestia's mind to glimmer.

>You're free to think that, but until it's addressed in the show, it's not.
Nice meme

>Irrelevant. Stay on topic.
I was saying that we don't need everything expressed explicitely if there is enought evidence

>This is another thing you're "pretty sure" about that is nonsensical. Another thing you "think".
But it is backed up with evidence and logical reasoning.

1/2

>>30309452
>>30310370
>We know for a fact Celestia can raise and lower the sun without touching the moon. Just because there is no moon doesn't mean there's anything stopping her from lowering the sun.
That doesn't disprove my argument, also, do you have any proof for that claim?

>We know when NMM returns, down to the day.
But we don't know how much time passed from that to the moment when twi arrives, and the thing about dash doesn't matter since she didn't met twi and by consequence she never binded with her element.

>So here, your theory hinges on a baseless assumption regarding what we DON'T see, as opposed to what we do see?
>assumption regarding what we DON'T see
Yes
>baseless
That's were is you are wrong, my theory is based on evidence from glimmer's dream, the correlation between the alicorns and the journal of the two sisters, while your entire argument is based in taking out of context a sentence that contradicts herself in the next moment
2/2

>>30310370
My two bits:

>When daybreak appears, celestia says: "No, it can't be...", heavily implying that she recognizes daybreak
She recognizes Daybreaker because it's pretty obvious at a glance what she's supposed to be, given the context. That doesn't mean she's based on reality. To me she reacts with more incredulity at first, whereas I would expect more immediate alarm if she knew of Daybreaker's existence firsthand.

>Celestia lit on fire seems like an accurate description of daybreak.
desu if I wanted to depict a magical being with solar powers becoming enraged I would immediately think "make her catch on fire." More relevant to your point is the fact that Celestia didn't remember what happened afterwards. That still leaves the question of why Daybreaker would manifest in such a beneficial way and then immediately relinquish control with no negative consequences.

>It requires a lot of power for something to travel from one dream to another
It isn't being transmitted from dream to dream though. Celestia's mind is already in close proximity to Starlight's, so no "distance" to travel, and I can easily envisage an amateur dreamwalker failing to protect their mind from the influences of the psychic world currently engulfing them on all sides.

>>30310546
>That still leaves the question of why Daybreaker would manifest in such a beneficial way and then immediately relinquish control with no negative consequences.
This is kinda interesing, my theory is that daybreaker gives up control so easily because the sisters didn't have their cutie marks yet, and since they couldn't control the sun/moon yet, she had no reason to take over celestia.
She probably manifested due to the stress and anger celly had at the moment.

>It isn't being transmitted from dream to dream though. Celestia's mind is already in close proximity to Starlight's, so no "distance" to travel, and I can easily envisage an amateur dreamwalker failing to protect their mind from the influences of the psychic world currently engulfing them on all sides.
Well, we don't have enought information about dream magic to make a proper canon, so I was going with what we got during the tantabus episode, wich was basically the fact that very powerful beings like the tantabus (and possibily daybreaker) can travel between dreams.
But yeah, it's still a possibility.

>>30309682
>nightmare version of fausticorn
It's called Meghan McCarthy

>>30308310
I want to be dommed by nightmare twi

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>>30312349
My compadre.

>>30310370
dutygenerate greentext

>>30310959
>>nightmare version of fausticorn
>It's called Meghan McCarthy

Okay, I laughed.

>>30310959
Do a nyx

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>>30310385
>As a physical threat?, not real
Good.
So not real. Rather Imaginary. Made up.
>but as an idea or something potentially dangerous inside celestia, yes, she exists.
ExistED. The idea was potentially dangerous (as mentioned in the episode, it could potentially damage Starlight's psyche), but according to Celestia, Daybreak will never exist again.
According to your version of events, Celestia is intimately familiar with Daybreak, and would be the one to know such a thing.

>Celestia lit on fire seems like an accurate description of daybreak.
That's not what the book says.
But it's also an accurate description of most any character when they're angry enough. Here's Spike so angry he's like on fire.

>That doesn't disprove my argument
Yes, it does. Your argument was that the moon was a "vital concept", and only alicorns embody "vital concepts", and therefore all alicorns can turn into Nightmare Moon.

>Celestia recognizes daybreak and glimmer doesn't know celly is capable of turning into that, making it unlikely that glimmy made it up.
Nope. Celestia is shocked when she's made aware of the concept of Daybreak (that's also why Daybreak explains exactly what she is). Like Celestia says, Glimmer made Daybreak up, and Celestia can't actually turn into Daybreak, because Daybreak isn't real.

1/3

>>30314907
>It requires a lot of power for something to travel from one dream to another as seen in the tantabus episode
Celestia has already crossed the line into Glimmer's dream, the power comes from Celestia (or more accurately, Celestia using Luna's magic).
But if we go with your heavily selective interpretation of events, why is it that Daybreak focuses solely on Celestia then? If it has already crossed over to Glimmer, why isn't it focusing on turning Glimmer into it's vessel?
Surely Celestia has fought Daybreak for eons, and wouldn't act surprised and shocked like she does in the episode. Why would Daybreak continue to pester Celestia when it's given a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to test the waters of another mind?

>But it is backed up with evidence and logical reasoning.
What evidence?
What logical reasoning?
The true logical reasoning is that the sun and it's sunlight is what gives us day, it's absence is what gives us night, and the moon is large chunk of rock that's largely irrelevant to the passage of night and day.
This is also true for Equestria, as one can move one body without moving the other.

>But we don't know how much time passed from that to the moment when twi arrives
Twilight returns to the current time each time the spell runs it's course. The concept of a "current" time makes sense in Equestria, because as Zecora tells us, the other timelines are in fact false worlds that should not exist.
So, the time is from the pilot, to however many years has passed before S5.

2/3

>>30314909
>she never binded with her element.
Doesn't matter that she isn't bound to the physical element, she is still a representative of loyalty.
She's loyal already as a child, even before she earns her cutie mark she's loyal when she stands up to the bullies and defends Fluttershy.
Likewise, she isn't somehow less loyal now that the elements are gone, Dash is, was and always will be a very loyal pony, element or not.

>my theory is based on evidence from glimmer's dream
It isn't. You've made up your mind in advance and are desperately looking for anything circumstantial that could support your claims, happily ignoring everything else.
You haven't provided the evidence that all alicorns have a NMM-esque entity in them, you haven't provided the evidence that all alicorns embody vital concepts (they don't), and you haven't demonstrated how the notion that all "alicorns embody vital concepts" leads to the conclusion "all alicorns have NMM-esque entities contained within them".

3/3

>>30314907
>So not real. Rather Imaginary. Made up.
Good job ignoring the rest of the paragraph, not real in the tangible sense, it's not something you can touch or see, bug it's still real as an entity in celestia's mind, like a ghost.

>ExistED. The idea was potentially dangerous, but according to Celestia, Daybreak will never exist again.
I'm not arguing that it still exists, as we don't know that yet, i'm arguing that she once existed.
We have no evidence of the alicorn mind needing that entity to exist, we still don't know if NMM is still inside of luna.

>That's not what the book says.
>"Suddenly, it was like Celestia was on fire! She actually glowed with fury, and her voice echoed in the air."
>"Celestia was on fire!"

>But it's also an accurate description of most any character when they're angry enough.
Well, the book is pretty straightfoward with it's descriptions

>Yes, it does. Your argument was that the moon was a "vital concept", and only alicorns embody "vital concepts", and therefore all alicorns can turn into Nightmare Moon.
>"We know for a fact Celestia can raise and lower the sun without touching the moon. Just because there is no moon doesn't mean there's anything stopping her from lowering the sun."
Tell me how the fuck does this disprove that, they're not even related

>Like Celestia says, Glimmer made Daybreak up, and Celestia can't actually turn into Daybreak, because Daybreak isn't real.
Still waiting for proof about that

>why is it that Daybreak focuses solely on Celestia then? If it has already crossed over to Glimmer, why isn't it focusing on turning Glimmer into it's vessel?
She is inherently tied to celestia and her sun powers, corrupting glimmer would be counterproductive.

1/2

>>30314907
>>30315373
>What evidence?
>What logical reasoning?
The two instances of daybreaker existence make a lot of sense when she is inside celestia's mind, while your entire argument is based on a sentence that contradicts itself

>This is also true for Equestria, as one can move one body without moving the other.
Do you have any proof to back that claim up?, also if the movement of one celestial body was irrelevant, the why did unicorns permanently sacrificed their magic moving both?

>Likewise, she isn't somehow less loyal now that the elements are gone, Dash is, was and always will be a very loyal pony, element or not.
But she has nothing to be loyal to, she never met her friends, so she can't be loyal to them.
In any case, this only makes her more loyal to the new NMM regime.

>happily ignoring everything else.
And you are just brushing off all the evidence of daybreaker in exchange of one contradictory sentence of celestia.

>You haven't provided the evidence that all alicorns have a NMM-esque entity in them
My fault, i'm not arguing that being true, my argument is that daybreaker existed at one point in time in celestia's mind.
I was merely stating the whole new window of possibilities that the episode opened, including the possible existence of entities similar to NMM.

2/2

>>30315373
>>30315377
>bug it's still real as an entity in celestia's mind, like a ghost.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

>i'm arguing that she once existed.
Okay.

>we still don't know if NMM is still inside of luna.
Or if NMM is even a separate entity from Luna.

>"Celestia was on fire!"
Why are you intentionally misquoting the book? Wilfully taking a quote out of it's intended context?
"like Celestia was on fire" is NOT the same as "Celestia was on fire!", one is simile, the other literal.

>the book is pretty straightfoward with it's descriptions
Yet you somehow managed to misquote it?
I'm starting to doubt your mental faculties at this point, at least when it comes to comprehension of words. If you miss such a significant qualifier as "like", it's not surprising that you're confused over quotes like "You are not real" and "You will never exist again".

>Tell me how the fuck does this disprove that, they're not even related
Your initial claim:
>I'm saying vital in the sense of them being important or basic natural elements, if you take out the sun, everything goes to shit, if you take out the magic, everything goes to shit
The moon is not a vital element. If you take out the moon, night still happens.
And continuing:
>I'm pretty sure that the whole "the day will last forever" is pretty bad for the world, specially when one side is bruning down while the other is freezing over.
If you rotate the sun around the world as usual, no one side will ever get too hot, and the day will not last forever. It is of zero importance where the moon is or if the moon even exists.

>Still waiting for proof about that
I gave you the direct, undisputable quote from the show. "You are not real".
Celestia is real, and can't turn into something that isn't real.
Please pay attention. I gave you the quote proving it's Starlight Glimmer's as well.

1/2

>>30315560

>She is inherently tied to celestia and her sun powers, corrupting glimmer would be counterproductive.
Then why manifest in Glimmer's dream rather than Celestia's? Why waste all that energy you say she's wasting to pass over, when she's supposedly already right where she wants to be, in Celestia's mind?

>The two instances of daybreaker existence make a lot of sense when she is inside celestia's mind, while your entire argument is based on a sentence that contradicts itself
You are lying. You have one instance where Celestia is angry that you claim represents Daybreak, despite there being almost no correlation whatsoever, and another instance where Daybreaker is referred to as "not real".

>Do you have any proof to back that claim up?
Yes.
For example this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAQ0yL5vxb4
DYEWTS?

>why did unicorns permanently sacrificed their magic moving both?
They didn't. Permanently sacrifice their magic, that is.

>But she has nothing to be loyal to, she never met her friends, so she can't be loyal to them.
See for example Return of Harmony, she's very loyal to Cloudsdale, for one.
>In any case, this only makes her more loyal to the new NMM regime.
Loyalty has to be earned, it can't be stolen or bought.

>And you are just brushing off all the evidence of daybreaker in exchange of one contradictory sentence of celestia.
There is no contradiction. You're pretending there is, because what you imagine is a contradictory sentence punches a hole in your theory. If you actually try to look at the evidence from another perspective, you'll find there is no contradiction. I explained why in an earlier post as well, did you forget? Or conveniently ignore that too?

>My fault, i'm not arguing that being true, my argument is that daybreaker existed at one point in time in celestia's mind.
Ah. Now that sounds much more plausible. Not a lot of support for that argument, but it's definitely harder to debunk.

2/2

>>30299900
You believe correctly, Anon

File: 1441888170393.jpg (21KB, 298x303px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 298x303px

>>30300138
>Celestia does have to feel guilty for
>>30301131
>banishing her own sister away with all the burdens that caused both parties

>>30320041
Celestia denyers at it again

<4

bump because of glimspam

>>30299900
Why not at this point.