>Casts a fucking cutie mark altering spell on the rulers of

>>30230299
Shit writing and shit character

>>30230299
As long as they have cutie marks, it can be done.

>>30230299
She's literally the Broly of My little pony. It doesn't matter how fucking little sense it makes, the writers will do it and expect you to believe she's JUST that goddamned powerful.

mark my words: She'll channel the full power of the complete EOH by herself in the finale without any help.

Why do assume more powerful ponies are harder to cast spells on. I don't think we've ever seen anyone resist a spell.

>>30230356
because logic
have you ever seen a dog try to bite a tortoise? no? exactly.

>>30230299
What if they were never really all that powerful in the first place, and the stigma that they are is merely the product of rumors spread throughout many years that Celestia never bothered to correct?
The only thing we know for sure is they somehow lived for thousands of years, but that's just a testament to their longevity, not their strength.

How many times have we seen them fight? Very little, and when they do, it seems to be on the same level that unicorns and other alicorns (cough, Twiggles) are.

Maybe we're just too autistic and reading into this too much.

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>>30230299
Until she defeats someone like THIS guy, then I will start calling her bullshit overpowered

also, The Flash

>>30230367
>The Princesses are actually pretty weak outside of their niches, everyone just assumes they're powerful because they're really tall

>>30230362
>because logic
Yea so you have no reason to believe that.

>>30230356
>I don't think we've ever seen anyone resist a spell.

magic makes you more resistant to magical effects: twilight could tank shit like it was nothing when fighting Tirek for example.

>>30230386
But that resist skill wasn't a passive thing. Twilight knew an attack was coming and was prepared for it. Resist spells don't count for shit when the target is caught unawares and can't get it up in time.

This isn't some MMO where you can stack Resist manastones into your gear and magically just survive fireballs.

>>30230393
>This isn't some MMO where you can stack Resist manastones into your gear and magically just survive fireballs
I mean, technically we don't have anything that says it's not

>>30230400
Well then if that's the case, Celestia and Luna didn't realize in their laziness that the level cap increased and therefore didn't update their gear.

They also failed to git gud.

>>30230400
We have no idea how magic works except that its tied to imagining what you want happening.

>>30230425
That...

Actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

>>30230299
I imagine magic is one of those things that's hard to defend against unless you see it coming. Glimmer just did the magical equivalent of sucker punching both the princesses. I'm sure if she'd shot a laser at them like every other villain in the show, they'd be able to stop her.

Or not, this is GLIM GLAM, FUCKING MAGICAL PRODIGY, after all. I wouldn't be surprised if she was somehow stronger than both the princesses.

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>questioning cartoon logic

>>30230367
>be princesses of the night and day
>can literally move the fucking celestial bodies
>be millennia old
>never learn how to be stupid powerful with magic
>be weak enough that some cunt can just change the powers you've been using for millennia around like nothing

glimmer fags will defend everything

>>30230435
We know for sure that magical powers are (at least) amplified by friendship and love

>>30231463
We do? How?

>>30231488
Oh wait, I'm an idiot, Friendship is Magic.

Because Celestias only real power is raising the sun. She can't protect Equestria so she pretty much hired twighlight to do it for her

>>30230299
The entire episode is a IQ-deprived clusterfuck.

The two immortal goddesses behaves like small children. So kids can identify!!!
Fucktard writers think little girls loves neurotic ruler who worries a lot.
(Hint: Little girls prefer to identify with parents or celebs.)

Glimmah is a true Mary Sue - a Jack of all trades, who is always welcome everywhere and never blamed for any screw-up. Hasbro Strudio sells this character to little girls.
They think this superpony can be a girls heroine. The think kids will dress up like Glimmah for Halloween after buying a shitload of Glimshit merchandise.

The previous Nerd princess didn't sell costumes but they figuer glimmah will.

>>30230299

Why should cutie mark magic on the Princesses be harder than on any other pony?

Just because the princesses are powerful doesn't mean they are automatically resistant to others' magic.

>>30230299
Her talent is magic. Real magic. In twilight's care it is magic of friendship. Just imagine what she can do with allicorn amulet.

>>30231511
>be princesses
>millennia old
>fought and defeated Discord, literal god of chaos
>fought and defeated Tirek
>Celestia defeated Nightmare Moon on her own with the EOH
>the most magically powerful ponies in the entire series besides other Alicorns
>apparently never bothered to learn how to resist magic
>so weak that a faggot gets the drop on them, because "well glimmer is all powerful now, knows better than millennia old princesses, and apparently magic works on them just like everyone else"

can we just not be as retarded as this guy? I'm indifferent to glimmer, but this whole episode was fucking retarded. Glimmer is apparently god now.

>>30231530
>talent > thousands of years of experience
wew lad, what amount of mental gymnastics do you go through every morning?

>>30230299
As the show has demonstrated many times, unless you see it coming and put up a defense, even alicorns can be overpowered.

They lost to fucking PLANTS once, remember? They're not more resistant to magic than any other pony, and if you catch them unaware or come to them in the guise of a friend then yes, swapping their cutie marks isn't only possible, it's easy.

>>30231530
>Her talent is magic.
Sauce on this? Where is this stated?

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>>30231537
>>talent > thousands of years of experience
Yeah, no. We saw how well their "experience" did every time they got kidnapped or rekt. Tallent>1000years. Not to mention Luna was imprisoned on the moon all those years and Celestia had to do her royal obligations regardless. So they have no experience.

Ever heard of the great Starswirl the Bearded? He had the power banishing people without the elements of harmony and messing with time travel. Which proves what allicorn magic is no way superior no unicorn magic, unless the allicorn har magic as her talent. It just has a wider usage.

>>30231578
Starswirl died, and the princesses who worked or had communications with him didn't. It stands to reason that they knew of his projects. We also haven't seen a lot of Alicorn powers. It's also mighty suspicious that the sisters were powerful a thousand years ago, yet now they're fucking retards. The whole episode was a mess, poorly written, poorly executed.

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>>30231571
Though it looks like cutiemark removal to me.

>>30231587

That, or just a star and some wispy smoke. Starlight Glimmer, I'm guessing the wisps are supposed to be the shimmering from the star or something.

Star, sun and weather themed cutie marks are very common though, both among pegasi and unicorns. Without a deeper symbolism like Twilight or Zecora, they're far from special.

>>30231585
>It stands to reason that they knew of his projects.
Knew OF his projects, yes, but they didn't KNOW his projects like a talented magician might.
Remember when Celestia handed part of his old research off to Twilight so that Twilight could finish it? Celestia had at least 1000 years to do it herself but never did.

>We also haven't seen a lot of Alicorn powers.
Most likely because they don't have a lot.

>It's also mighty suspicious that the sisters were powerful a thousand years ago
They had the elements 1000 years ago, and worked as a team (more or less).
Luna is pretty powerful on her own, but Celestia seems to be an above average unicorn power-level wise.

>yet now they're fucking retards.
What do you mean? Give examples, please.

>The whole episode was a mess, poorly written, poorly executed.
Nice opinion. Not really relevant to the discussion at hand. Let's stick to what's actually objectively demonstrable in canon.

>>30231585
>Starswirl died,
And? He still had such power. So can Starlight.
>We also haven't seen a lot of Alicorn powers.
We have seen enough to conclude they are not more powerful. Looking how shit every princess was at their magic it is 100% safe to say it is not superior (again only has wider possibilities, like repairing the crystal heard and seeing the past without time travel). Every magic is limited by knowledge of the spell.
>poorly written, poorly executed.
You are ruining it for yourself...

>>30231611
>give examples please
the entire episode where, instead of acting and speaking like beings that have been together for multiple millennia they just completely flummox their basic communication skills. Not to mention the plants, and discord, and tirek, both of whom they had defeated already.

>Nice opinion. Not really relevant to the discussion at hand. Let's stick to what's actually objectively demonstrable in canon

it was a relevant opinion. A poorly written episode means poorly written characters, plots, and general fuckery. The episode pretty much states that glimmer is God. And I say this by pointing out the Nightmare Moon incident. We see and infer Luna feels underappreciated by her fellow ponies, so she becomes Nightmare Moon, yet for some reason Celestia ignores any problem Luna may be having, that could eventually lead to another NM incident. This is basic communication that sisters as old as they are should've mastered at this point. Celestia doesn't even realize, nor ask, about any problem Luna may be having and vice versa. It's ridiculous and shoe-horned in so glimmer can fix a problem, that shouldn't even be a problem in the first place.
>>30231632
>And? He still had such power. So can Starlight
Starswirl died, the princesses didn't. So while starswirl was dead the princesses could've conceivably learned and dissected his magic. They didn't because plot, apparently.

>>30231642
>glimmer is God
>glitter is gold
.
.
.
>Somebody once told me stealing cutie marks is bad
>I ain't the best pony in the show
>she was lookin kinda dumb with a Lauren and a Faust in the shape of a plot, on her fore chan

>>30231642
>the entire episode where, instead of acting and speaking like beings that have been together for multiple millennia they just completely flummox their basic communication skills.
But that's not true, though.
The pilot itself established that communication between them had broken down. That's the entire reason for NMM.
Luna being gone for 1000 years doesn't change that, their relationship can only pick up where they left off.


>Not to mention the plants
No warning, taken by surprise.
>and discord
No warning, taken by surprise.
>and tirek
Minimal warning, good plan that only failed because of Discord's treachery. Followed by a calculated gamble that paid off.
Explain how it's "retarded" to get figuratively backstabbed? You're not implying they could somehow predict EVERY threat?

>The episode pretty much states that glimmer is God.
When and where? Glimmer is portrayed as a worried unicorn with a spell, just like any other.

>We see and infer Luna feels underappreciated by her fellow ponies, so she becomes Nightmare Moon, yet for some reason Celestia ignores any problem Luna may be having, that could eventually lead to another NM incident.
Oh gee, looks like the issue wasn't so one-sided! So black and white! Maybe Celestia, too, has issues she needs to sort out?

>It's ridiculous and shoe-horned in so glimmer can fix a problem,
Except it's been there since literally the pilot.

>>30231706
except the whole episode is based off of celestia and luna NOT learning from their past mistakes, and believing that is just ridiculous.
>Oh, so not talking and communicating lead to NMM?
>Let's NOT talk and communicate again! Sure to work!

the entire episode was based off of celestia and luna being stupid.

>inb4 "But where are they being stupid?"
not learning from their mistakes, it's not rocket science.

>>30231706
Nigga you realise its canonically been a couple of years since the mane six defeated nmm.
Thats more than enough time for heir relatonship to pick up and change based on their 1000 year seperation.

>>30231728
>>30231734
Just curious but have any of you ever had a friend irl? Shit can stir up out of nowhere and things can brew for a long time before they surface. I've seen friendships that've gone for years before breaking up. It happens yo.

>>30231734

I'd look at it the other way.
Both ponies would initially go out of their way to not step on each others' toes, but after a while they'd fall back into old habits as old grievances and frustrations reemerge. Like a marriage gone sour. Until now they've ignored their issues and never dealt with them. Remember, both Luna and Celestia are very prideful ponies.

>>30230299
She can do anything the plot demands.

>>30231857
>The FIRST thing we learn about her is she can remove cutiemarks.
>Switching cutiemarks is somehow unexpected of her.

>>30230299
We have known that she has casted a lot of cutie mark ripping magic since the first episode we saw her. Why wouldn't she be able to swap the cutie marks? Oh right, the magical artifact.

>>30231587
Damn, i never thought of it that way before.
I always thought it was just a falling star.

>>30231898
The magical artifact was a fake.

>>30230367
Keep in mind that Tirek was high on the power of literally very pony in Equestrian when Twilight fought him and she held her own by using Celestia and Luna's power. Then there's still the chance that Twilight could use their full strength because it wasn't hers, sort of like how Ginyu couldn't fight effectively in Goku's body. At the very least here, we're looking at Celestia and Luna being half as powerful as an entire country just on their own. The upper limits are unknown.

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>>30230299
haha it's so funny how in the catalogue it cuts on a hyphen and it looks like you got btfo'd midsentence because nobody let you finish your stupid bullshit

>>30230393
Knowing an attack is coming only helps you to an extent. Go in the ring with a professional boxer and tell me how well you do even if you know the hits are coming.

>>30231844
This, reminds me that while elements stripped the demon thing from Sunset, she still had plenty of internal problems that only got resolved by the time RR ended.

Meanwhile in the show Luna still had a metric host of problems after the element blast. Luna Eclipsed and Do Princesses Dream were focused on her conquering some lingering internal problems and Royal Problem is the (sentient?) map tackling still strained relationship of the sisters with the equivalent of a big hammer. That hammer being Glimmer, who has the skill and lack of attachment (Twilight being the opposite in that regard) tofinally squash that lingering reason why the whole NMM thing happened in the first place and ensure total harmony.

>>30230299
I guess alicorns were always overrated.

>>30230318
^This.

The show needs to end.

>>30231442
Even then, that's just the ability to dish out powerful magic. Dishing out magic, and defending against it, especially when caught off guard, are two different things and you know it.

If they were expecting the attack and had their guard up, what Glimglam did by all means would not have worked. But they weren't expecting it, and for all their power that they can discharge, never brought anything to bear in time to defend from Glimmer's cutiemark switching spell.

Again, it's not like their raw magic output has anything with passively resisting the magic of other ponies. Two different stats, anon.

>>30232129
You need to end.

>>30231734
Dude. Exactly because years have passed since she returned the feelings of reunion got numb, meaning they are back at square one. This happens all the time irl too.

>>30232202
I still can't believe some people think being powerful in one aspect means they can take everything and do everything. IRL some people can lift insane weights, but can't sustain that kind of lifting for shit.

speculation: the thread

>>30231507
>Toy sales
mebbe hasbro promotes Glimmer because they have greater margins on those toys?

Twilights wings can be a choking hazard for younger siblings?
So they try to get every child to focus on cheap Glimmer.

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>>30232254
>cheap Glimmer
SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!

things the princesses have jobbed to:
>plants
>clouds
>bugs
>each other
>the hypothetical absence of the mane 6 defending Equestria in every available scenario
>Glimmer

Now can we please stop talking about Celestia and Luna's power levels as if they are well defined in canon? Even if they were defined, they would not be good.

>>30232251
Ain't nothing wrong with speculation.

>>30232284
Didn't they say in that "Rainbow has to study for a wonderbolts exam" episode that Celestia established the Wonderbolts because without Luna, she needed an additional militia to defend the country?

>>30232301

Something to that effect, yeah.

I think it's also worth pointing out that for the last 1000 years the Everfree has grown and expanded, and taken a well-built castle with it. Dragons have taken up residence on Equestrian soil (and occasionally cause trouble, like the one in Dragonshy). Celestia seems to have been very busy just minimizing her losses.
From what we've seen, it's only comparatively recently that Equestria has started pushing back it's borders again. Assimilating the crystal and changeling empires, allying with a tribe of dragons. The yaks and buffalo, etc.

>>30232346
And no doubt most of that can be attributed to the Harmony Tree. It was dying for a long time before it got weak enough for the S4 premiere to happen with the Plunder Seed plant invasion.

Now that it has all its magic whatevers inside it again, it's able to manage the forest, the table, and even fix relationship issues with the princesses. The map/tree is their fuckin country therapist

>>30230299

>>30230318
> Shit writing and shit character
This
New writers don't give a shit about world building.
They're just like 'this is gonna be fun' and just do it without knowing that they're basically ruining the fundamentals.
"fans don't appreciate the hard work we put in" they say.

>>30230299
S1E12, Twilight admits that cutie mark altering magic is impossible.

Fast forward to S7, Starlight "powerhouse" Glimmer can do it in a heartbeat.

>>30232425
To be fair, she said making a Cutie Mark appear was impossible, right?

>>30232442
Yep and in S6 Glimmer can make cutie marks disappear and appear at will, even suppress the talent associated with it

>>30232425
>>30232446
>Twilight Sparkle: Told you that not even magic can make a cutie mark appear before its time.
That line says nothing about removing or replacing.

>>30232460
>A CM represents who you truly are
>Can remove and replace them
Really makes you think

>>30232471
What happens when you remove them? They try rushing back to their owner unless contained.

Stalight's cutie mark switching spell is only temporary.

>>30232425
>>30232442
>>30232446

Wrong.

>Apple Bloom: You can use your magic to make my cutie mark appear.
>Twilight Sparkle: Oh no, Apple Bloom. A cutie mark is something a pony has to discover for herself.
>Apple Bloom: Please Twilight, jus' trah.
...
>Twilight Sparkle: Told you that not even magic can make a cutie mark appear before its time.


Starlight messes with already existing cutie marks, at no point does she ever make a cutie mark appear before it's time.

>>30232391
What fundamentals? Give examples please. Don't just spout dumb memes.

>>30232425
To be fair she never actually ALTERS the mark itself. Cutie Marks are essentially Read Only files.

>>30232425
It's also worth noting that Heart's Desire flower (Cutie pox) can make cutie marks appear with their associated talents. Seeds of Truth can remove them. What that means for magic spells i don't know, but it something to consider, maybe.

>Last time cutie marks were swapped they needed the EoH to fix it
>Glimmer so powerful she can do it by herself
Really makes you think

>>30232568
Except Twilight didn't switch the marks themselves, she swapped their actual fates around. Complete with alteration of memories of not only her friends but everyone in Ponyville.

>>30232568
That spell didn't just switch their cutie marks but their entire history/destiny as well and was permanent. Their are transcripts of every episode online. Maybe look it up before posting.

>>30232568
It's more that she's crazy specialized in it. Cutie Marks being the reason she went nuts likely meant she developed a way herself to remove marks and/or swap them. Not to mention she herself said her swap spell only lasted 24 hours normally. EOH was a group perma switch.

>>30232568
DYEWTS?

>>30232580
>>30232585
>>30232588
>>30232595
Here comes the Correct The Canon team

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Never got why people bitch so much about how powerful Starlight is.
Never heard of Sorcerers, that are present in about any fantasy universe to date?

>>30232608
More like the people who actually watch the show. Transcripts also exist for every single episode on the wikia site.

>>30232585
Not only that, but during A True True Friend there were several times where two of Twilight's friends had the same mark. Simply moving marks around doesn't create copies. Which can only mean the magic that was used to fix the problem was re-writing their destinies each time it was used.

>>30230367
I've always believed this about them. Even if they're immortal, that just means they won't age. That has nothing to do with their physical resistance. And over that time they amount a vast wealth of knowledge and learn magical abilities that no other pony can learn. But that doesn't mean that, like you said, outside of their niche, they're literal gods or even close to that.

But sun/moonfags hate hearing their 'gods' cast in such a mediocre light

>>30232737
Plus most of Celestia's time in those 1k years was actually keeping the nation together along with other diplomatic things. She doesn't even have the time to learn insane sorceries most of the time. Starlight and Twilight however have all the time they want to test out shit.

>>30232671
>Reading transcripts instead of watching the show
Yeah, right

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>>30230299
And what if magic isn't really tied to cutie-marks but rather ponies use it subconsciously?
They're just taught that their cutie-marks are really important, so when they are altered ponies also subconsciously alter their "magic flow" because they think that's how it's work.
Cutie-marks are basically placebo, but because their culture and education they just matter a lot more for them. Like Rarity mark isn't really tied to her most important talent (dress making) in any way. But she's still golden in it, because she doesn't focus on her "true" talent that much.

Also Princesses didn't really look that powerfull. Yes, they can move sun and moon, but they can't be "our" satelites. When Celestia use her magic sun instantaneously moves, and light needs around 8 minutes to travel from our sun to us. And if their sun is that much closer it also needs to be many times smaller because otherwise it would just burn their planet. Hell, we don't even know if their sun is star or just some magicall construct or something, but it's certain that it's a lot smaller and closer. They still need a lot of magic to move it but nowhere as much as many people think. Several unicorns together could to the same and they didn't have special connection with it.
Also Celestia was defeated by Chrysalis, she's pumped by love, but love of only ONE stallion, Shining may love Cadence very much, but still it isn't some kind of super love, it's same love as any other stallion have, so she should be capable of storing a lot more power, and yet she still defeated Celestia.
Another thing is that their nation looks really centralised, yes they have some lower officilas, but it looks like a lot of work is actually tied to Celestia. She's doing a lot more micromangment than she should as reasonable head of state. So she probably didn't have much time even over 1000 years to train her magic. And Luna spent that time on the moon so she probably is even worse versed in modern magic than Celestia.

>>30232425

No. Twilight said you can't force a cutie mark to appear. Which still stands as a fact.

Cutie Mark manipulation? Been in before Glimmer was a thing as proven in the Season 3 finale where TWILIGHT does it while finishing a spell.

Infact it's the same episode she became a Princess.

Plus Glimmer admitted that the process was temporary and lasted a day. The only reason it worked in Commietown was the giant ass gem case that was uniquely designed to do the job.

>>30232816
As an alternative and when you need to quickly fact check something. Just load up the transcript and CTRL + F what you need.

>>30232888
It was more the swap that lasted a day. Force removal wholesale causes it to return straight to the original pony's body unless contained in a physical object.

I'm reminded of the cutiepox. I don't know how it factors into anything but it exists.

>>30232391
I have to agree, despite this season knocking it out of the park. The show getting good again doesn't erase the complete disregard for internal consistency this show is guilty of in spades.

>>30230299
the show is shit go home

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>>30230299
The show's still good, just in episodes where Starlight takes no part

>>30233511
Checked. Also, this. I'm not going to go on a glimmer hate tirade but she is truly unbearable.

>>30233526
this. I don't hate Glimmer, in fact I want to like her I want to like her so badly because she was my second favourite villain of all time on this show, but the writers just keep fucking up so badly and the Glimmerfags won't even admit to it and it just makes it impoosible

>>30233511
>>30233526
>>30233544
Explain.

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>>30233511
>>30233544
>>30233588

>>30230299
Remember before she reformed and had access to Twilight's fuckhuge library she was able to rip off cutie marks and lock them up in a vault on her own. Her swapping them is probably a mere extension of that power.
As to the extent of her power, just keep in mind she's been able to go toe to toe with Alicorn Twilight, who bears the element of magic, and even bested her during the time shenanigans thing because Twilight was too focused on fixing things.

>>30233630
In other instances she's been amazed at how quickly Twilight picks up a spell that she's studied for a long time, so it seems pretty clear to me the only reason she beats Twilight is because she puts in a lot more effort in a much narrower field.

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>>30230318
I agree with you.
only pony worse than glim is fucking angel wings.

>>30231442
Daybreaker was right, Celestia needs to focus on getting jacked instead of telling others to do so.

>>30233588
>never gets punished for anything even when she deserves it
>Bonus: Glimmerfags will never admit to this
>the writers immediately make her connect with fan favourite secondary characters to artificially inflate her popularity
>mane characters are written as bumbling idiots in her episodes, all their character growth thrown out the window (Twilight in No Second Prances, and the mane 6 and the princesses in To Where and Back Again)
>We never see her grow alongside the mane 6 we're just expected to think they're as close as can be
Like I said I don't blame Starlight herself for this, in all honesty in the S5 finale, whilst I was annoyed that they wasted what could've been time used to flesh out her backstory was wasted on a shitty song, I was looking forward to see what Starlight could add to the show, but the writers just fucked up again and again, and they've just never stopped, what's worse is that the Glimmerfags are in hard denial and shitpost about how great their Mary Sue is

>>30231587
I always took it as a falling star

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>>30233647
fuck you.

>>30233739
I hope the fat bitch who made that shit OC hurry ups and dies.

>>30230299
This is like asking how powerful Goku is in super-saiyan-whatever form. The answer is "as powerful as he needs to be"

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>>30230299
>Just how fucking powerful is this ABSOLUTE MADMARE
She's literally the most magically powerful pony alive. Maybe grown up Flurry can rival her later, but only if Star will not be alicorn herself yet.
Thinking otherwise is autism denial zone.

>>30233675
I really don't see where you're coming from with this, or how Glimmer would in any way be worse than, say, Twilight who destroyed Ponyville and got away with it without even a slap on her wrists, or enslaved all of Ponyville and got told off for it, nothing more. Or how she's somehow worse than Dash who destroyed the Cloudsdale weather factory with no repercussion.

And it's not as if characters aren't written as "bumbling idiots" outside of their episodes all the time. Even in well-beloved episodes like Testing, Testing 1,2,3 the supporting cast often have to play the idiot ball.

And what are their options regarding secondary characters? What would you have preferred?
Force her to inorganically be the 5th wheel to the mane6?
Force her to inorganically interact with non-beloved secondary characters or invent new ones out of the box?
Have her organically interact and bond with a well-liked character she has a lot in common with?

You're right in that we don't really see her alongside the mane6 all that much, but she's been around for just over a season at this point. It took a long time for the CMC too to have any meaningful interaction with the mane6. It was either Apple Bloom acting as an Apple with her sister, or CMC acting as the CMC with no growth alongside the mane6 whatsoever until about Sleepless in Ponyville.

>>30233819
I deny being autistic, and argue that is not the case.
She's studied a few spells hard to the point where she can rival Twilight in their use, but she's nowhere close to Twilight in general aptitude.

>>30233739
Cute!
But think the blonde color in mane should probably be better with som light read or orange.

>>30233675
>never gets punished for anything even when she deserves it
What kind of punishment did you want her to recieve realistically?

>the writers immediately make her connect with fan favourite secondary characters to artificially inflate her popularity
Would you like it better if she was connected with characters no one liked or cared about, or better yet if the writers made characters specifically for her?

>Twilight in No Second Prance
How the fuck is it out of character for Twilight to be careful and apprehensive of Starlight potentially returning to her old self by connecting with someone with questionable past, and as result get somewhat tunnel visioned and miss important things?

>the mane 6 and the princesses in To Where and Back Again
What character growth was thrown out of the window in this episode?

>We never see her grow alongside the mane 6
Good

>we're just expected to think they're as close as can be
I don't think that we are.

>>30233922
>she's nowhere close to Twilight in general aptitude
In every instance those two compare their magic powers Starlight proves to be stronger.

>>30233958
Are you talking about the comics or something? Because in the show that has never once been the case.

>>30233922
>but she's nowhere close to Twilight in general aptitude.
What do you base your opinion on?

>>30233967
>Because in the show
DYEWTS?

>>30233862
>Twilight who destroyed Ponyville and got away with it without even a slap on her wrists
Sauce? I mean, I'm trying to figure out what you're referring to here. Swarm of the Century? I don't remember them eating the whole town.

>or enslaved all of Ponyville and got told off for it
Told off - by the highest authority in the land, whose approval or not her very sanity seemed to hinge on. Furthermore, the WiNi spell was reversed in a matter of minutes, not years, and had no lasting effects. In context, Twilight got a very harsh reaction for a much smaller act.

>Or how she's somehow worse than Dash who destroyed the Cloudsdale weather factory with no repercussion.
Won't deny this, though. That episode pissed me off too; "domestic terrorism on nationally-critical facilities because you can't chill over your pet hibernating is no biggie" was not a rational lesson and it was no better than Glimmer's situation.

I mean, hell, Glimmer straight up tried to murder the Our Town ponies before we even get to the "fucking around with magic that may very well end the world". That's a hell of a lot more than Twilight ever did.

>You're right in that we don't really see her alongside the mane6 all that much, but she's been around for just over a season at this point.
The problem is we desperately needed to see that interaction. Unlike The CMC, who started from net-zero, Starlight came into her current position with a lot of background baggage. Not having it, yet Starlight somehow being accepted, essentially handwaves all the development that should have taken place there.

>>30233958
>>30233976
it's never been shown in the show at best Starlight is even to Twilight but she's never better need I remind you that in the S5 premiere Twilight deflected a spell that Starlight studied for years like it was piss in the wind?

>>30233981
Not him but
>Sauce?
MMC? She became a fucking alcorn for fucking up and then fixing her own fuck up

>Furthermore, the WiNi spell was reversed in a matter of minutes, not years, and had no lasting effects.
Are we talking about what Starlight did when she was a villain now? What lasting effects did Starlights action have?

> Glimmer straight up tried to murder the Our Town ponies
Did she?

>The problem is we desperately needed to see that interaction.
Why?

>Not having it, yet Starlight somehow being accepted, essentially handwaves all the development that should have taken place there.
There's no development they're acquaintances at best. The only person Starlight can consider a friend among mane6 is Twilight. Also Spike, but he's not really a part of a group at least officially.

>>30233969

Her small repertoire, and how all her advanced spells revolve around messing with cutie marks and destinies.
How her magical beam is weaker than Twilight's, and how she's pushed back while using her shield while Twilight isn't.
How she fails to keep up with Twilight (but does a damn good show) in Every Little Thing She Does, and miscasts a shield.

>>30234039
Also, how Twilight invents new spells on the fly and copies existing spells by watching them performed once, while Starlight has to study existing spells for hours or days, and her "new" spells are only combinations or small modifications on existing spells.

>>30230299
Cutie mark magic seems to be Starlight's "thing," regardless of Celestia and Luna's power levels. So while Celestia and Luna might have higher overall magic levels, Starlight has an almost preternatural control over that specific aspect of the world. It's like getting upset that someone can bake or design clothing better than Luna.

>>30231530
But anon, friendship IS magic.

>>30232888
>The only reason it worked in Commietown was the giant ass gem case
Thanks, Maud.

>>30234039
>Her small repertoire, and how all her advanced spells revolve around messing with cutie marks and destinies.
She casts CM alteration spells, time traveling spells, mind controlling spells, shields, laser beams, some sort of immovability spells, she can clone herself, she can teleport stuff. How the fuck is this a small reperoire.

>How her magical beam is weaker than Twilight's, and how she's pushed back while using her shield while Twilight isn't.
Just rewatched season 5 finale, where was that?

>How she fails to keep up with Twilight (but does a damn good show) in Every Little Thing She Does, and miscasts a shield.
Now I know that you're just delusional.

>>30234060
>while Starlight has to study existing spells for hours or days, and her "new" spells are only combinations or small modifications on existing spells
Is it another headcanon of yours?

>>30234093
Time travel was Star Swirl's spell. She was casting it from his scroll, and the magic was tied directly to that physical object.

Starlight is very magically adept, and likely the most powerful current unicorn, but I don't think she surpasses the alicorns on average. Hell, the only reason Twilight couldn't overpower her in The Cutie Re-Mark was because the "win" conditions were so skewed in Glim's favour.

>>30234093
The time traveling spell isn't hers, it's a distortion of Starswirl's cutie mark spell and used by the map, the same spell Twilight used to become an alicorn back in the day. Her mind control too revolves around cutie marks.
Beams are generic, like telekinesis. Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure even Rarity does one at some point.
Her immovability spell is a slightly modified shield spell.
She can't clone herself, she can use an acceleration spell along with a cheap illusion spell to appear in two places at once. It's still only one Starlight

>How the fuck is this a small reperoire.
Small repertoire compared to Twilight. Who does everything Starlight does in addition to numerous transformations, summons, illusions, detection, dispels, and dark/alicorn magic (as a unicorn).

>Just rewatched season 5 finale, where was that?
In one of the fights in the false Equestria, Starlight puts up her crystal-like shield when Twilight hits her with her beam, and she's sliding backwards along a cloud.

>>30230299
Celestia and Luna aren't as powerful as you think.

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>>30234156
>She can't clone herself, she can use an acceleration spell along with a cheap illusion spell to appear in two places at once. It's still only one Starlight

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>>30230299
This is why I refused to watch that shit. It's the first episode I skipped, and hopefully the last too. I don't even give a shit if the rest of it is good, the premise is so absolutely fucking ludicrous and retarded I literally can't even. Suspension of disbelief can only get you so far.
And the level of mental gymnastics people do to justify it is fucking ridiculous.
Seven years of wait for a sisters episode, and this is what they pull out of their asses. Shame on whoever thought of that shit, and on whoever allowed it too. I really wish it was all a fucking joke.

>>30234154
>Time travel was Star Swirl's spell.
How is this relevent? She knows the spell, she can cast it. That means it's a part of her repertoire.

>She was casting it from his scroll, and the magic was tied directly to that physical object.
She casts it from the scroll because she tweaked it in such way that it would pull Twilight in and out of the past.

>Starlight is very magically adept, and likely the most powerful current unicorn, but I don't think she surpasses the alicorns on average.
We have literally zero information to confirm or disprove this.

>>30234347
DYEWTS?
>Starlight Glimmer: [laughing] I'm not finished. I've discovered a very old spell, Similo Duplexis, when combined with Accelero in just the right way... [doubled up] ...you can literally be in two places at once! [normal] [sighs] Now I'm finished.

>>30234369
>And the level of mental gymnastics people do to justify it is fucking ridiculous.
>Says the autist who is so buttflustered he didn't even watch the episode.

You literally, LITERALLY can't know what you're talking about.

>>30234156
>The time traveling spell isn't hers
Yes, so what? Do you really think Twilight came up with all her spells herself?

> it's a distortion of Starswirl's cutie mark spell
It's his time traveling spell actually Twilight casted once in It's About Time. As far as we know it has nothing to do with CM.

>used by the map
It's not used by map, it connected to it, so it would be possible to go to any part of Equestria, it also probably enhances the length of time travel.

>Beams are generic, like telekinesis. Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure even Rarity does one at some point.
Wrong again. Only the most powerful unicorns use it. Rarity didn't fire beam once, she used some karate kicks tho

>Her immovability spell is a slightly modified shield spell
That you can cast on others, and that have physical properties, and the person the spell is casted on can't move. But yeah pretty much the same.

>She can't clone herself
That's literally your speculation, there's nothing impressive in creating illusion, it makes even less sense when you take into consideration the fact that she fused two spells, one of which is called similo duplecsis or some shit like that. She also says you can be in two places at once which also indicates it's not a simple illusion.

>Small repertoire compared to Twilight.
We literally cannot say, how big her repertoire potentially can be. Does she need to start cast random spells without any need for them to prove to you that she knows them?
>who does everything Starlight does
No direct mind fuckery, only charm. No acceleration spell, no cloning herself.

>In one of the fights in the false Equestria, Starlight puts up her crystal-like shield
It's not a shield, it's literally a crystal of sorts, that has physical properties like weight, it should be fucking obvious given that when Starlight put Twilight in one, she literally fall through a cloud.

>>30234156
>Small repertoire compared to Twilight. Who does
Why do you think she can't cast those spells? For her, it's a matter of hours to learn any spell for all we know.

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>>30234373
True, we don't have proof. But I would say that someone named the Element of Magic, and the Princess of Friendship in a series called "Friendship Is Magic," is a very strong suggestion in favour of their being more adept at magic overall.

>>30234388
You don't seem to get the point of what I said there. Twilight couldn't go full hog and overpower Starlight, because the entire goal was to change as little as possible.

>>30234154
>>30234373
also forgot


>Hell, the only reason Twilight couldn't overpower her in The Cutie Re-Mark was because the "win" conditions were so skewed in Glim's favour
The fact that circumstances were favorable for Starlight in no way indicates that she is weaker. Not even once during their battle Starlight was shown to fall back.
To be quite frank, Starlight potentially could've won by K.O., if she didn't leave the scroll behind. But if good guys hadn't had a chance to win, there wouldn't have been a show, so here we are.

>>30234373
>She knows the spell, she can cast it. That means it's a part of her repertoire.
She cast it from a scroll. She didn't cast it herself.
You're aware of that classical trope, right? Magical scrolls?
The show uses cursed items, too, the alicorn amulet.

>>30234441
>full hog and overpower Starlight
How the fuck do you suppose she would do that? Are you saying she was "holding up"? Are you retarded?

>>30234450
You literally retarded, what are you even talking about?

>>30234481
The phrase is "holding back," my ESL friend, and yes. Twilight basically had to talk Starlight down from a hostage situation, because she was holding a gun up against the entire timeline. You don't just walk up and punch out a guy who's holding people at gunpoint.

>>30234416
I don't need to watch it to know the premise. I don't need to watch it to realize it doesn't make sense. There is LITERALLY nothing they could have done to make it even remotely acceptable. It's simply ridiculous.
No, you don't need to step in shit to recognize it as such.
>buttflustered
yeah keeps those ebic memes flowing boyo. You forgot the glimmer pic tho.

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>>30231594
It's an Aurora. Hence her name: Aurora Glimmer

>>30234434
>Do you really think Twilight came up with all her spells herself?
Now, but I know for a fact she did with a lot of them

>It's his time traveling spell actually Twilight casted once in It's About Time.
Nope, that spell could only be cast once. And the scrolls aren't even remotely similar.

>Only the most powerful unicorns use it
What episode is this stated in?

>That's literally your speculation
Nope, it's literally stated by Starlight herself. One pony in two places, not two ponies.

>We literally cannot say, how big her repertoire potentially can be.
True that. We can only go with what see and hear in canon.

>No direct mind fuckery, only charm.
Flutterbat directly fucks Fluttershy's mind.
>No acceleration spell,
Twilight is the one who tells her to use the spell, as a follow-up to previous scenes where Twilight demonstrates.
>no cloning herself.
Neither does Starlight

>It's not a shield, it's literally a crystal of sorts
All shield spells are literally physical entities, and have physical properties like for example resistance.

>>30234481
>You literally retarded, what are you even talking about?
Using magic scrolls or items =/= casting spells of your own power.

>>30234441
>Twilight couldn't go full hog and overpower Starlight
She was shown to be exhausted. She never said she wasn't going all outl. Based on what did you came to this conclusion. Hell, by this logic, who even could say that Starlight went all out, since the only thing she had to do was to change one small thing.

>She cast it from a scroll.
There was a spell in the scroll, she tweaked it to serve her purpose, nothing was indicating that it was some sort of magical artifact.

>>30234489
But... The episode does make sense. It LITERALLY does. From an in-universe perspective as well as from a meta-perspective.
Why does it even matter to your wittle feewings what the premise is or isn't?

You're judging a book by it's fucking cover here, and getting emotionally offended over fucking nothing.

>>30234504
>She was shown to be exhausted.
Because she had to fight Starlight and protect Dash and everyone while keeping both their profiles low.

>>30234489
- Starlight can swap cutie marks, because cutie mark magic is the specialty of this already powerful unicorn.
- Even if the alicorns are more powerful, there's nothing to suggest they can resist this specific thing. It's like getting upset that Luna can't make dresses better than the top designer or something.
- Starlight's presence was necessary because Twilight is too much of a fan-girling monarchist to ever call the Princesses on their shit.

Even as a Twifag, I can understand why the episode played out as it did. You're sperging out over nothing, and calling names when people point it out.

>>30234519
When the show spends seasons hammering home the idea of Twilight being the most powerful mage of her time, literally the "Element of Magic" and the "Princess of Friendship" in a setting where friendship is magic, the burden of proof is on you to show that Starlight has upended that status quo.

>nothing was indicating that it was some sort of magical artifact.
Did you forget the commercial break cliffhanger where she was tearing it in half?

>>30234546
Not just Starlight. She's having to run nonstop through dozens of "bad end" timelines, filled with all sorts of horrors.

>>30234503
>but I know for a fact she did with a lot of them
Where did you get this fact of yours?

>Nope, that spell could only be cast once. And the scrolls aren't even remotely similar.
Which spell? What are you talking about? The wiki says for example:
>Starlight Glimmer uses a modified version of Star Swirl the Bearded's time spell

>What episode is this stated in?
It wasn't. I came to this conclusion by seeing only very powerful entities casting lasers.

>Nope, it's literally stated by Starlight herself. One pony in two places, not two ponies.
Ok, that's just retarded. She colnes herself, she doesn't create another pony. Nothig she said indicates that it was just an illusion. You also conveniently didn't adress the part where part of the spell was similo duplecsis.

>Flutterbat directly fucks Fluttershy's mind.
She has no control over her that's for sure. I would say more, but I can't find the episode anywhere.

>Twilight is the one who tells her to use the spell, as a follow-up to previous scenes where Twilight demonstrates.
Ok, at this point I'm pretty sure you don't watch the show.

>Neither does Starlight
That's getting old

>All shield spells are literally physical entities, and have physical properties like for example resistance.
They don't have weight though.

>>30234653
>Which spell? What are you talking about? The wiki says for example:
The wiki is wrong. The episode says:
>Pinkie Pie: Twilight, Twilight, I found something! It doesn't stop time, but it lets you go back in time. It says you can go back once, and it only lasts for a few moments. Does that help?
And the fact still remains you can clearly see the scrolls used in both episodes, and they are NOT the same, they're not even similar.

>It wasn't. I came to this conclusion by seeing only very powerful entities casting lasers.
I see. It's an interesting headcanon.

>Ok, that's just retarded. She colnes herself, she doesn't create another pony. Nothig she said indicates that it was just an illusion. You also conveniently didn't adress the part where part of the spell was similo duplecsis.
She literally doesn't. Go watch the show. Listen to her quote.
>you can literally be in two places at once!
One pony in two places at once, no cloning ever happens, it's just a distortion spell that lets her be in two places at once.

>They don't have weight though.
What episode is this stated in? Or is this another headcanon of yours?

You know what, I don't even care any more. I'm fairly certain you are either baiting or literally autistic.

>>30234643
>the burden of proof is on you to show that Starlight has upended that status quo.
There're literally numerous examples of Starlight pulling off equal, if not more impressive, feats in magic throughout the thread, if you would bother to read. The fact that Twilight failed to win against Starlight as well as admitted her own inability to do so only tells that much.

>where she was tearing it in half
She was tearint it in half so that it wouldn't pull Twilight back though, didn't she? If the spell scroll was all that was needed to time travel, the question why Twilight didn't tweak with it herself and went further in the past to set up a trap before Glimmer arrived arises.

>>30234712
>And the fact still remains you can clearly see the scrolls used in both episodes, and they are NOT the same, they're not even similar.
The spell you were insisting it on being was in a fucking book. Are you really this retarded?

>I see. It's an interesting headcanon.
Well, it makes much more sense, then yours that everyone actually can do it, but only the big boys are shown to.

>One pony in two places at once, no cloning ever happens, it's just a distortion spell that lets her be in two places at once.
No comment.

>What episode is this stated in? Or is this another headcanon of yours?
You can see it. With you fucking eyes. Which you apparently lack as well as any semblance of intellect.

>You know what, I don't even care any more. I'm fairly certain you are either baiting or literally autistic.
Yeah, go fuck yourself.

>>30234764
>Yeah, go fuck yourself.
He's just fucking retarded, don't pay him too much attention.

>>30234777
I just wanted to have hope in humanity, was it too much to ask?

>>30234720
>the question why Twilight didn't tweak with it herself and went further in the past to set up a trap
I'm not the other guy who's claiming that all of the magic is in the scroll. But it's obvious that a -large part of it- is, because they say it in the episode itself.

>Twilight Sparkle: Spike, only Star Swirl the Bearded could do something like that, and even his spell just went back a week! How could Starlight do more than the greatest wizard in Equestria?
>[paper rustling]
>Spike: With this.
>Twilight Sparkle: Star Swirl's spell! Oh, no!

As in: She was using the exact same spell that Twilight did. But the difference is, Starlight took the physical scroll with her, which allowed her to cast a much more powerful version of the spell.

>>30234791
All is lost.

>>30234815
>Spike, only Star Swirl the Bearded could do something like that, and even his spell just went back a week!
This part indicates the limits of what Star Swirl could do with the spell.

>Spike: With this
>Twilight Sparkle: Star Swirl's spell! Oh, no!
This part explains how Glimmer managed to time travel at all even though she obviously tweaked with it. The scroll itsed as far as I could tell served as an anchor of sorts, that was alowing to return to point zero which there were two the present and RD's race. I could be mistaking but to be quite honest, nothing really was indicating that the paper itself had any magical properties.
Thanks for the transcribtion. This part disproves a one retard I was arguing here with.

>>30234712
Hey, retardo. Read the>>30234815
Not a time travel spell you were saying?

>>30234038
>MMC?
Eh, I'd not rate that as "destroying Ponyville". And no, she became an alicorn for creating new magic... which is bullshit in its own right, but let's not get into that. It's a whole other discussion. Point is, fixing your own magical fuckup isn't grounds for being an alicorn; if it was, the CMC would all be alicorns for fixing the Love Poison business.

>Are we talking about what Starlight did when she was a villain now? What lasting effects did Starlights action have?
There's a fairly decent amount of literature out there on the psychological harm done by involvement in cults and cult-like structures (as Starlight's village was). Add on having their talents/souls/energy violently ripped out, and the idea that the ponies there were untouched is bizarre and

>Did she?
Yes. As they're fleeing, she fires a magic beam at the pursuing Our Town ponies; the only reason they're not caught in it is that Twilight drops in at the last second and deflects it with a shield. Even the fragments of deflected beam still have enough energy to blow rocks to bits; you want to guess at what that'd have done to flesh and blood?

> Why? ... There's no development they're acquaintances at best.
And therein lays the problem: They're "just acquaintances", yet we see them all being somehow perfectly okay with Starlight being around (and even periodically intruding on their personal lives) when the last they knew of her is that she'd magically ripped out their talents, locked them in a building, and then run away while firing lethal magic lasers at them. The next time they're seen together, they're just A-Okay with Starlight. That's why that development needed to happen.

>>30234887
Why would the physical scroll serve as an anchor to a totally unrelated time? The power imbued in the scroll itself is what allowed her to jump back more than a decade. They explicitly say that in the episode.

>>30234915
> Point is, fixing your own magical fuckup isn't grounds for being an alicorn if it was, the CMC would all be alicorns for fixing the Love Poison business.
That's the joke.

>here's a fairly decent amount of literature out there on the psychological harm done by involvement in cults and cult-like structures (as Starlight's village was).
Well, unfortuntely, show doesn't indicate any of them being presented. Outside of maybe Stockholm syndrom given they almost made her the head of the village again, but it's up to interpretation

Add on having their talents/souls/energy violently ripped out, and the idea that the ponies there were untouched is bizarre and
The violently ripped out part is on the edge of the headcanon, we do not really know if they willingly decided to give in the cult or were forced to. On one hand, mane6 were forced, on the other hand, they still live together and even wanted Starlight back to run the place.

>Yes.
Well, ok. But it's not like she wanted to murder them, she wanted them to stop their pursuit.

>yet we see them all being somehow perfectly okay with Starlight being around
Why wouldn't they? She's a Twilight's student now. They belive in Twilight's judgement, that's why they gave her a chance. Plus she did decide not to fuck up the world, albeit she could. Isn't it good enough? What exactly were you expecting from the show? Ten episodes dealing with mane 6 not trusting her, not like we had this shit at least 2 times already, if you count eqg. Plus they did try to bond in ELTSD, Starlight fucked up and they didn't talk much after that, which I liked.

>>30232243
t. vogel apologist

>>30234919
>Why would the physical scroll serve as an anchor to a totally unrelated time?
Because Glimmer tweaked it too?

> The power imbued in the scroll itself is what allowed her to jump back more than a decade.
You yourself posted the transcription that says:
>Spike, only Star Swirl the Bearded could do something like that, and even his spell just went back a week!

>They explicitly say that in the episode
>But figuring out I could use the map to go to any time or place and pull you along with me?
No, it was the map. And Starlight tweak to the spell.

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>>30234915
>you want to guess at what that'd have done to flesh and blood?
Encase them in a purple crystal like object.

>>30233630
A lot of people make the assumption that becoming an alicorn made twilight stronger but that has never really been stated or shown.

>>30235074
Alright, fair enough. I forgot that she said she used the map's magic. Either way, it isn't all Starlight's inherent magic; she's still channeling the power of an ancient artefact.

>>30235126
>Either way, it isn't all Starlight's inherent magic; she's still channeling the power of an ancient artefact
True. But she also said
>Sorry to disappoint you, but I created that spell to send myself back in time
So I still consider it a part of her repertoire :^)

>>30235166
That's fine. I don't care about her repertoire, and she's obviously skilled, if not the most powerful unicorn in existence. I'm just talking about raw magical ability compared to alicorns, and specifically Twilight, because the idea of some rando unicorn despot overpowering the Element of Magic is pretty silly.

There are a lot of ways you can interpret that ending scene of the S5 finale. Maybe Twilight was holding back to preserve the timeline (which was her ultimate goal), or maybe she was really just on the ropes. But I prefer the view that 1) contrasts Twilight's strength of character with then-evil Starlight's rage, in not sacrificing the future simply to knock her out; and 2) is consistent with the idea of the Element of Magic, and the concept that "friendship is magic" in a literal sense. It's the interpretation that maintains my faith in the show, and keeps me from getting dispirited about the ride.

>>30235224
I think at this point we take 'friendship is magic' memo a bit too literally. If we to look at what happened before Twilight alone was weaker than her opponents times and times again for one reason or another. And only through the magic of frienship be that a product of elements of harmony or rainbow power both of which required her and her friends being present and in harmony and all that jazz, or even the proposal to give frienship anothor chance to lost soul, she overcames her foes again and again. Has she even had a solo win now that I think about it?

>>30230299
Because nobody bothers to put any thought into this fucking nonsense character.